1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: If you've got young kids, keeping them entertained is a 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: pretty tricky balancing act. Popping on a movie or TV 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: show can be a lifesaver, giving them something to focus 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: on for a while. But trust me, you can only 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: watch bright flashing lights and listen to sickly sweet sing 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: along so many times before you feel your brain starts 7 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: to melt. Thankfully, we have a savior two of them. 8 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: In fact, the Listies are one of my daughter's favorite 9 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: comedy acts, and I count myself incredibly lucky because I 10 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: love them too. When Matt Kelly and Richard Higgins, the 11 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: comedic duo that makes up the Listies, say they perform 12 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: comedy for kidults, they really mean it. So what makes 13 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: their work so enjoyable not just for kids, but for 14 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: everyone in the family. How do they think about designing 15 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: a show for the notoriously short attention span of modern kids? 16 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: And we will also dig deep into how a sketch 17 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: goes from idea all the way to performance. My name 18 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: is doctor amanthe Immer. I'm an organizational psychologist and the 19 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and this is how 20 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: I work a show about how to help you do 21 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: your best work. When I met Matt and Richard, I 22 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: started the interview by reading a quote because I think 23 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: it gets right to the heart of what it means 24 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: when they say their comedy is for kidults. It's from 25 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: Frank Woodley of Lena and Woodley Fame, one of Australia's 26 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: greatest comedians. He says, when I saw the listings, it 27 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: affected my thinking because I really related to the comedy 28 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: craft they were exercising. It got me a little bit 29 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: excited to realize that when you are performing for kids, 30 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: it's just as delicate and just as sophistic dedicated. So 31 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: I wanted to know what are the key considerations in 32 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: creating a show for kids. 33 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,239 Speaker 2: Oh that quote is so good, isn't that? 34 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 3: Yeah? 35 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 4: Really nicely it just makes me feel well worth fifteen 36 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 4: dollars we paid him. Matt and I always start from 37 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 4: the premise, which of what do children know? 38 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 3: Like what do they know? 39 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 4: Because the idea of the clown, which is what we 40 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 4: are effectively, is that the kids can't have one over 41 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 4: on us. The audience are like, no, you're wrong, They yeah, so, 42 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 4: but what do kids know? So we have to start 43 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 4: from that, Like they know animals, they know musical instruments, 44 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 4: they know their parents' names, they know stuff like that. 45 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 3: So I think that's that's what we start from. 46 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, we've got a whole show that's about going to bed, 47 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 5: like where Richard's trying to get me to go to bed, 48 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 5: and that came from that came from just observing like 49 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 5: this kid in our lives and coming up with every 50 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 5: strategy that they could to try and stay up for longer. 51 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: And that's it. 52 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 5: We kind of looked at that moment when that's that's 53 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 5: something that they would intuitively know and that parents would 54 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 5: know as well, So we kind of like dig down 55 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 5: and try and think about common family experiences as well, 56 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 5: like being trapped in the car, being trapped inside on 57 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 5: a long day and on. 58 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 2: A rainy day. 59 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 4: That's the other thing about Gwen comedy. When you have 60 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 4: two characters, how do why don't they just if they're 61 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 4: so annoying to each other, why don't they just leave? 62 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 4: Like you have to have some premise of keeping them 63 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 4: in the same place. So they're stuck in a lift, 64 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 4: they're stuck in the car, it's raining, so they can't leave, 65 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 4: So that you're always looking for those new and new premise. 66 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. 67 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: The thing that one of the many things that I 68 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: like about your comedy, even though I'm not the target market, 69 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: although I guess parents kind of. 70 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 3: Really you're a kid old. 71 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: I'm a kid old, yes, And I say this having 72 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: listened to hundreds of hours of your sketches and songs. 73 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: Thank you to my daughter, Frankie. 74 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 5: I'm so sorry about all that time. 75 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: And I will just give advice. 76 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 5: To any of you listeners. 77 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: Just don't like don't it's not worth it. 78 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 3: It's like a packet of biscuits once you. 79 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 2: Have wine the whole much in a way. 80 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: But my question is, like, your humor works so well 81 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: for kids but also for adults, And how does that 82 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: work when you're thinking that this has to be funny 83 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: for kids, and so you're thinking about what they know. 84 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: But how do you then weave in I don't know, 85 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: that other element that sits on top of that where 86 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: adults will laugh as well. 87 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 5: I think that's in the mechanics of the double act, 88 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 5: isn't it like to really talk technically, Like we used 89 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 5: to think that our double act was older brother younger brother, 90 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 5: and then we just had this revelation that actually what 91 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 5: we're doing is playing out a parent child anxiety. And 92 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 5: so when Richard's getting mad, he's expressing something that everyone 93 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 5: is saying, something that every parent in the audience has 94 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 5: thought about saying, never really got the opportunity to do it. 95 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 3: And that's doing that for the kid too. 96 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, and then and then everyone gets a pleasure in 97 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 5: watching that those tables be turned or and I think 98 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 5: we think about so I think we do hold the 99 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 5: parents in our mind as much as we hold the 100 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 5: kids in our minds when we're thinking about what's funny, 101 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 5: and I think we are delivered laughs from both because 102 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 5: of that reason. 103 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 3: I think there is. 104 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 4: A cartoon by Leanna Fink, who's a New Yorker cartoonist 105 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 4: that I love so much, and it's a kid, an 106 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 4: outline of a kid, and it says child, and inside 107 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 4: the child there's a blob, a tiny blob, and it 108 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 4: says adult. And then there's a picture of an adult, 109 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 4: like an outline of an adult, which is adult, and 110 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 4: then inside that is a blob that says child. So 111 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 4: you know, when you say we talk about kids and 112 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 4: adults as if they are diametrically opposed, but actually, when 113 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 4: you're an adult, you still have the child in you. 114 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 4: And when you're a child, you still have the adult 115 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 4: you're going to be as a seed inside you. And 116 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 4: that's actually a very funny thing that you can get 117 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 4: whenever you see an old like a kid who's like five, 118 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 4: but you can see them as an old lady as well. 119 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 4: That's the funniest thing, you know, when you see like 120 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 4: a kid and you're like, oh, look at that little 121 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 4: Nona walking and it's funny because it's not Anna, but 122 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 4: at the same time because it's like, well, they will 123 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 4: be an a one day. 124 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, what do you do if you get the feedback, 125 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: let's say from a director for example, that you need 126 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: to inject more humor into a scene. 127 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,799 Speaker 2: Contrast is a thing that we definitely think about. 128 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, we think about what's the worst that could happen? 129 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 5: Is another kind of joke generating thing because basically the 130 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 5: machine of the lists is just trying to find a 131 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 5: way for Richard to yell like, how do we reach it? 132 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 3: Quite? Not quite, because if you look at there are frustrated. 133 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 3: You know. 134 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 4: Tim Ferguson has a book called The Cheeky Monkey that 135 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 4: he has a workshop that he does around that, which 136 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 4: we've both done, and he really breaks down a whole 137 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 4: bunch of tactics that are really good for finding jokes 138 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 4: in quite a mechanical way. 139 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 5: So reversal of expectations, confirmations of expectations, benign violence, that kind. 140 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 3: Of yeah, unexpected display of skill. 141 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 4: You know, a guy goes out to the you know, 142 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 4: a guy sweeping on the stage and there's a grand 143 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 4: piano and then turns to the audience and realize, oh, 144 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 4: I'm sweeping and there's an audience there, and then starts 145 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 4: playing Buck's piano concerto. That's going to get a laugh 146 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 4: because it's unexpected display a skill. How do you get 147 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 4: Frank has. 148 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 3: A clown workshop. 149 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 4: I've done with him too, which is wrongness. How do 150 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 4: you get things wrong in a fun way? So he 151 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 4: his example was a rubber glove, so he could make 152 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 4: that into a chicken. He could flick it in himself 153 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 4: in the face. He could pretend it's a balloon and 154 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 4: float away. You know, how can you get things wrong 155 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 4: in a creative way? And then you've got pun uh 156 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 4: rhymes like so general wordplay. 157 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 5: And we one of the things that that we sort 158 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 5: of so if we if we're looking through like if 159 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 5: we're drafting, so we had to make some educational content. 160 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 3: For We didn't have to, we wanted to. 161 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 2: We really did. Yeah, and it was about teaching kids. 162 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,239 Speaker 3: We were in that we got put in soldier confinement. 163 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 4: The only way they us we we've got commissioned to 164 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 4: write some education. 165 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 3: Way I put it. 166 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, that was teaching kids about emotional literacy, which is 167 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 5: a very dry subject. And so the first pass of 168 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 5: those scripts was like, we just need to like put 169 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 5: more jokes into into this. 170 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 3: That's true. 171 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 5: So then what we found was how do we insert 172 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 5: that into like a more comedic framework, like what is 173 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 5: what is the sketch, what's the premise of the sketch? 174 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 2: What have we and wrong? 175 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 5: And so we we redrafted them and how do we 176 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 5: add more absurdity? How do we so we do? We 177 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 5: do look at we do look at the story that 178 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 5: we're telling, all the information that we have to relay 179 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 5: or convey, and then yeah, we do we actually do 180 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 5: mechanically go through and look for. 181 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,439 Speaker 4: There's too many times in this or just had a 182 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 4: musical bit like yeah, we we haven't had any silent bits. 183 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 4: Let's try and make this silent like that. That's that 184 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 4: getting to the variation. 185 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 2: And it's a thing that I don't. 186 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 3: Think we ever talked about this in an interview. Now, yes, 187 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 3: think about this is how the sausage is made, but 188 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 3: it is. 189 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 5: But it is a thing that uh that in those 190 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 5: Tim fergus and workshops where he's talking about in in 191 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 5: a writer's room on like a big American sitcom, they'll 192 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 5: go through and it's three jokes of page, three jokes 193 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 5: a minute, and I'll circle the jokes in a red pen. 194 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 5: And that's a thing that we think about too when 195 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 5: we're writing scripts. It's like, the joke needs to be circlable. 196 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 5: It needs to be a joke, not just something that's 197 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,199 Speaker 5: some thinks a bit funny, or it's a. 198 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 2: Reference which isn't actually a joke. 199 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you see other kids entertainers, what are you 200 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: guys looking for? How are you viewing that? Because I 201 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: imagine it's through a different lens than myself. 202 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 3: Ah, it's a hard price to steal. Oh yeah, how 203 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 3: do they what's their recipe for slime? Ah? How did 204 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 3: they get that to explode? Ah? 205 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 4: Wow, they're only doing forty five minutes. We do sixty five. 206 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 4: Perhaps we could make our shows shorter and our life 207 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 4: would be easier stuff like that. So no, that's just 208 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 4: I don't know what. 209 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 5: I don't know how to ask well, I mean, when 210 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 5: we answer that question honestly, yeah, I. 211 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: Mean, let's go for an honest how much how. 212 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 2: Much they respect the kids? Like really, when it comes down. 213 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 5: To it, if they're doing a show that's lobbing jokes 214 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 5: at the parents and then throwing in some easy fart 215 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 5: jokes or it's very easy to it's two. There's two 216 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 5: ways to make kids laugh. Kids will laugh when they 217 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 5: know that they're expected to laugh, and then there's a 218 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 5: second laugh which comes from their bones, and we always 219 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 5: aiming for that second one. And the shows that I 220 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 5: love are the ones where the performers are interested in 221 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 5: that second laugh, and they're interested in taking the audience 222 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 5: that they have in front of them and like tweaking 223 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 5: their funny or tickling their funny bones in a way 224 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 5: that will make those people laugh. And so when I 225 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 5: go and see shows, I'm always looking for new ways 226 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,959 Speaker 5: to do that, and the best, like Frank's excellent at it, 227 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 5: Like he's just interested in making the human being who 228 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 5: was sitting there in front of them laugh and not 229 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 5: taking easy laughs. And that's kind of what I'm looking 230 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 5: for when I go and see things, and you know, 231 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 5: creativity and ideas and imagination and all of that stuff 232 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 5: that I think is really a part of kids theater. 233 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 4: But also like I always go, oh, we shove got 234 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 4: to up our costume game. That's a good costume. Look 235 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 4: at that prop. It looks much better than ours. 236 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 3: Oh, look at the case they arrived in. Ah, that pack. 237 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 3: The way they pack that prop into that suitcase is 238 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 3: really good. Like, I'm just looking for stuff that we think. God, 239 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 3: I get a bit competitive, you know. 240 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 1: How do you decide what's appropriate to put in kids entertainment? 241 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 3: Yeah? What is appropriate? 242 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 5: Okay, So I think I think I'm more conservative than riches. 243 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 5: Like there's a bit in our new show where I 244 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 5: show my bum crack quite a lot where I'm leaning 245 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 5: just the top of. 246 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: It, just the very top top of it. 247 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 4: Just the top of his bum crack, like the most 248 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 4: you would see from like a delivery guy. 249 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 3: He bends over. 250 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 5: That, and I was like, there's no like, that's that's 251 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 5: that's on the line, But well, it is a line. 252 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 2: You cross the line perpendicular the line no one. 253 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 4: Wants to see, which because no one wants to follow 254 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 4: that line because it leads to a place where no 255 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 4: one wants to go. 256 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 5: But so I was like, I'm not quite sure this works, Like, 257 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 5: but what actually does what actually makes it work for us? 258 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 2: And I think that that. 259 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 3: Is Richard's outrage at it that if. 260 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 5: It was just if it was just a you know, 261 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 5: a forty two year old man showing his bum crack 262 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 5: to an audience of kids, I probably wouldn't have a 263 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 5: career because Richard Richard would be in an institution in jail. 264 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 5: But because Richard Richard's playing out the parent telling off 265 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 5: the naughty kid, don't do that. Stop doing that. What 266 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 5: is appropriate can change, and the level of Richard's outrage. 267 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 2: He can if it if it's too far over the line, 268 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 2: Richard can really pull it back. 269 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. 270 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 4: There's a guy called Bernie Mankoff and he's got this 271 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 4: lecture about comedy and stuff, and here his whole thing 272 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 4: about what a joke is is it's a benign violation. 273 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 4: So you've got to break the rules, but you've got 274 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 4: to do it in a way that's not horrible, like 275 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 4: because if you totally break the rules like that, that's 276 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 4: not a joke. That's punk, you know, Or that's sort 277 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 4: of full on art too. It's too violating to you know, 278 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 4: it's not funny, but if it's if it's sort of 279 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 4: if it breaks the rules, but it's still okay. Yeah, 280 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 4: I think that's what we're after, is where are those 281 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 4: benign violations? But it's also to do with our training too. 282 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 4: Matt and I both did used to work with a 283 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 4: woman called Lynn Ellis who came out of the sort 284 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 4: of British panto tradition. And so whenever you're like, oh, 285 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 4: we're going to then you see Matt's underpants, the British 286 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 4: panto mode would be go, oh yeah, but the underpants 287 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 4: needed like a big skid mark, like a big brown 288 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 4: skid mark. And so Lynn the director would be out 289 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 4: in the car park with a with a tin of 290 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 4: brown paint like painting this big, make it big, make 291 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 4: it bigger a And then she come back with a 292 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 4: yellow spray caner. 293 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 3: Make it it's like said some we as well pooh 294 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 3: and wich. 295 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 4: And then you know the undy she would use it 296 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 4: would be massive, like old man undies. And then she'd 297 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 4: be like, oh yeah, so we don't just see them, 298 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 4: we should then throw them into the audience and by 299 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 4: that point, I was like, oh, this is breaking too 300 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 4: many rules, this is too naughty, But. 301 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 3: Actually she's right, it was. 302 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 4: It's still everyone knows it's not real pooh, it's not real. 303 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 4: We and they're not really Matt's undy. So it's a 304 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 4: violation of the rules, but it's a benign violation, and 305 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 4: you know, an audience will tell you at the moment 306 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 4: they think it's not benign. 307 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 5: But then there are sort of other things that are inappropriate, 308 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 5: like we don't we're not we don't really violent in 309 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 5: the bullying, like no hit each other. No, we don't 310 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 5: fetishize tech on stage, we don't have like Matts not. 311 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 3: Obsessed with chocolates or that. 312 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 5: Kind of stuff. There's sort of the few things along 313 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 5: the way that we've discovered where we're like, we're not 314 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 5: really interested in presenting. 315 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 3: No, it's amazing. 316 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 4: It is amazing to see other clowning traditions, like we 317 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 4: did shows in Korea and the slapstick there is really 318 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 4: like quite full on and it is very funny. I 319 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 4: find it very funny, but it's it's sort of not 320 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 4: to our taste. 321 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 3: I think it's a bit as a group. 322 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you also see it with like the Three Stooges, 323 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 4: you know, where they do that thing where they pull 324 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 4: each other's nose, they pull their ears and slap. It's 325 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 4: so full on to watch now with our twenty twenty 326 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 4: two eyes and go, wow. 327 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 3: They were very, really violent. I think that man just 328 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 3: looks like he should leave this trio. He's in a 329 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 3: bad relationship. 330 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: I want to ask about attention, because I mean, it's 331 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: hard enough holding adults attention for sixty minutes, which is 332 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: about the length of one of your show. Is what 333 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: principles are you applying to hold young people's attention for 334 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: that long. 335 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 4: I think it's like a five minute rule, really, isn't it? 336 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 4: So the show should change substantially every five minutes? And 337 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 4: I think that that when I think that's true of 338 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 4: like you say, like of adult shows too, right, even 339 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 4: if it's just a person telling a story, that story 340 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 4: should change. 341 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 3: Pace or volume or or flavor. 342 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,719 Speaker 4: Every so often to keep your interest because otherwise, you know, 343 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 4: when I see shows that don't do that, I start getting. 344 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 3: Angry, quietly angry. 345 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 4: But I think we have a five minute rule, unconscious rule, 346 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 4: isn't it, Because if something and then if something's three, 347 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 4: then the next thing can be seven, but really nothing 348 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 4: should be longer than ten. 349 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 5: Yeah, we sort of change it's I think again. We 350 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 5: learned from Lynn, who Rich was talking about with Underpants before. 351 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:51,959 Speaker 5: Her whole approach to kids shows was just let genre 352 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 5: help you. Like just genre sets everyone kids see so 353 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 5: many different types of movies. So if you're going to 354 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 5: do something, what if we did this bit of science fiction? 355 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 5: So what does that mean? What does the music sound like? 356 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 5: What are your costumes? 357 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 2: That kind of stuff. 358 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 5: But then she would go, Okay, so this bit's in 359 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 5: the style of a Western. And so what we learned 360 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 5: from her was that like changing the game can arrest interest. 361 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 3: I think. 362 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: We will be back with the list. He is soon 363 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: talking about how working with a coach helped them get 364 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: better at managing conflict when it inevitably arises. If you're 365 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: looking for more tips to improve the way that you work, 366 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 1: I write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool 367 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: things that I've discovered that helped me work better, ranging 368 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: from software and gadgets that I'm loving through to interesting 369 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: research findings. You can sign up for that at Howiwork 370 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: dot co. That's how I Work dot co. You guys 371 00:18:55,160 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: are business partners as well as performing everything together. How 372 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: do you go about, like, when you disagree on something, 373 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 1: do you have a method for I guess getting to 374 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 1: a resolution? 375 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, we do now. 376 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 4: Yes, we have been working a lot with what's her 377 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 4: last name, Erskine, Shona Erskine, who is like she works 378 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 4: with like performers but also athletes and stuff like that. 379 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 4: I saw her speak at an artist's wellbeing thing in 380 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 4: Perth a long time ago, and I was like, I 381 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 4: really want to work with you. And so we've had 382 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 4: a bunch of sessions. 383 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 3: With her about really talking about, like. 384 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 4: You know, how to make decisions as two people, because 385 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 4: three people can make a decision much easier than two, 386 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 4: because two people we can just get to loger. 387 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: One can be out voted. 388 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, when you're fifty to fifty, how can you do that? 389 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 5: And we have over the last couple of years started 390 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 5: to introduce that third voice in as well, in order 391 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 5: to be able to like what's shown as kind of 392 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 5: given us is a language in order to be able 393 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 5: to kind of talk about talk about conflict, why we 394 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,360 Speaker 5: went into that conflict space, what the conflict was actually about, 395 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 5: and then some methods to sort of shortcut those stages 396 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 5: of conflict to go like we can just jump over 397 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 5: that hurdle and get straight into what we're actually talking about, 398 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 5: which is, you know, Richard wants to write a new 399 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 5: bit and I want to bend or break an old bit, 400 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 5: and like just little conflicts like. 401 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 4: That languages from her about that what creativity is. You're 402 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 4: often what's the third one? This three, isn't it? 403 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? 404 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 5: Bending, breaking or blending. 405 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's that's the only three. There's only three 406 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 4: ways to have an idea, which is to blend, to 407 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 4: break an existing one or bend, break, blend, blend, yeah, which. 408 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 3: Is really so we we have a lot. 409 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 4: Of We've also realized that we're very visual in the 410 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 4: way that we have ideas. 411 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 3: So often when. 412 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 4: We think we're disagreeing, we're agreeing, but we're expressing ourselves 413 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 4: from other side. So we use a lot of visual aids. 414 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 4: It sounds weird, but it actually works so well. And 415 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:13,719 Speaker 4: it's the one thing that was really bad during COVID 416 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 4: is when you've got two people and a sheet of 417 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 4: paper in front of you and a pen just and 418 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 4: you just sort of like draw an ideogram of like 419 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 4: or picture of like whatever you're where you're at It 420 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 4: can often, really, it can often. Really, it just helps 421 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 4: so much because then you're not talking. I'm not trying 422 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 4: to create an idea in Matt, and he's not trying 423 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 4: to create an idea in me. 424 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 3: We have a third thing. We've created that third thing. 425 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 3: I think that's really good. 426 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 5: And you know, picture paints a thousand words, it's very 427 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 5: easy to understand something. 428 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 3: We have a lot of different modes though. 429 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 4: Matt is very dyslexic and very visual, and I'm really 430 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,719 Speaker 4: into words. I like to read and write, and I 431 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 4: really like the script. Matt doesn't really care about script 432 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 4: so much. 433 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 3: So yeah, and. 434 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 5: We from just kind of having those different modes, we've 435 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 5: also learned that and you can tell we are talk 436 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 5: over the top of each other a lot. And so 437 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 5: what we've learned from Shiner as well, I think is 438 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 5: a really which is a really important thing, is that 439 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 5: it's just a really simple trick, which is if somebody's 440 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 5: talking and they're talking out their idea, you just write 441 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 5: on a piece of paper your idea and don't let 442 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 5: them have their time, and then you can look at 443 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 5: that thing on the piece of paper at the end 444 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 5: of this discussion. And if it's still worth bringing up. 445 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 5: Then it goes in. Then it goes in in for discussion, 446 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 5: but not letting the other person finish their idea, because 447 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 5: even if you can see that that it's maybe not 448 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 5: appropriate for this thing that we're doing, it is still 449 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,479 Speaker 5: an idea that somebody is giving birth to, and to 450 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 5: shut it off that, especially as creative humans, quite an 451 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 5: emotional reaction to that. And we do. And we found 452 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 5: that the more we kind of cut each other off 453 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 5: in that process, the more that kind of bucket of 454 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 5: frustration sort of builds up. So, yeah, that's something that 455 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 5: we try and keep open. 456 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 3: That's when we're working. 457 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 4: But the most important thing I've ever learned about collaboration 458 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 4: is that you don't have to agree on everything. You 459 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 4: only have to agree on enough. 460 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 2: That's it, and not everything is not. 461 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,479 Speaker 5: Every idea that you have is for that collaboration as well, 462 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 5: which is another thing that we learned from shown it. 463 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 5: She's like, there's you know, a Venn diagram of things 464 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 5: that you're both interested in and. 465 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 3: Being very the list is where they cross over. 466 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, and the clearer you are on those things, the 467 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 5: faster the creative project moves forward. 468 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: I like the idea of what you're saying. With visualizing 469 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: the the thing, I imagine it also makes it less 470 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: personal because then it's like this object, this written object 471 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 1: in front of you, as opposed to criticizing the person 472 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: that's come up with the idea. Does that have that impact? 473 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 4: You have to really also work out where their joy 474 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 4: comes from the person you're working with. 475 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 3: I think too, like. 476 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 4: We off, we have these continuums on our wall and 477 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 4: these magnets in between them, and one of them is 478 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 4: creative like blank page delivery. So the continuum is between 479 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 4: hitting send on an email where you've composed a manuscript 480 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 4: and you hit send, and then the other one is 481 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 4: like the blank page before you've even started. And what 482 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 4: we realized is that Matt has a lot of joy 483 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 4: from going it could be anything this blank page. Wow, ah, 484 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 4: I feel so free. I'm having so many ideas. I 485 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 4: love it. I hate that, and I'm like, ah, I 486 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 4: want to be as close to hitting send as possible. 487 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 4: I want to have as many restrictions as possible. And 488 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 4: that's where I get my creativity. You know, I have 489 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 4: a thing which I don't think is that healthy, but 490 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 4: it's a line from Duke Ellington which is, don't give 491 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 4: me time, give me a deadline, which I love. Matt 492 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 4: doesn't like that so much, but I think it's important 493 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 4: to realize that in order to collaborate. 494 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 5: And then have an understand that in every every creative project, 495 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 5: there is a time where that will where one of 496 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 5: those being on that continuum you are at this end 497 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 5: or at the other end, and then actually like formalizing 498 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 5: the agreement of right there, we are not exploded. We 499 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 5: are not We're in we're harnessing this idea. Now we're 500 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 5: not exploding it anymore. So we've moved into the harness phase, 501 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 5: which is we're not adding new ideas to it unless 502 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 5: they're solving a problem that gets us closer. 503 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, how hard is it to make that call? 504 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 2: That's awful. 505 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 5: I hate it. 506 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 4: And yeah, but that's because that's making a decision. Matt 507 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 4: doesn't like doing that. Whereas if you say, walk out 508 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 4: your room and you say, hey, have an idea, and 509 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 4: when you come back, Matt will have had an idea. 510 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 4: If you say to me, have an idea and close 511 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 4: the door, I'll go mad in that room. If you say, 512 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 4: have an idea about an elephant on holiday with a 513 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 4: blue hat, on, I'm like cool, I can now have 514 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 4: an ideas like, oh, does it have to be a 515 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 4: blue hat? 516 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 3: What about if it's a horse. 517 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 4: I had an idea about a monkey at work and 518 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 4: he's wearing a yellow. 519 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 5: Hat, and I like to delay the decision as long 520 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 5: as possible. 521 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 4: Then I've got this other idea about the about the 522 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 4: blue elephant, but he's not on holiday. 523 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 5: But I think I think that yeah, and I will 524 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 5: also then in the rohearsal room, go, oh, do you 525 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 5: remember four weeks ago we had that idea where that goes? 526 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 2: Now, like I. 527 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 5: Sort of hold that I can hold all of those 528 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 5: things that we've thrown away along the way and bring 529 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 5: them in at the last minute and go what about that? 530 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 5: And then occasionally it it pays off being able to go, oh, 531 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 5: hang on, yeah, like we had that thing and now 532 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 5: we've got wacky I'm waving inflatable tube guys in the show, and. 533 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, now I want to unpack one of your sketches. 534 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I'm Batman. 535 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 4: That okay, Christian. When I say action, I just want 536 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 4: you to look down the barrel of the camera and 537 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 4: say the last line of the film, which is I'm Batman. 538 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 2: Okay, I can do that, all. 539 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 4: Right, and then we'll all be finished. Yep, cool, okay, cool, brilliant, Okay, okay, 540 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 4: lights please sound rolling camera action, Christian. 541 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 2: I'm Batman cart Cool. That's good. 542 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 4: Just we'll do it one more time. Okay, can't you 543 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 4: remember your lines? I'm Batman, yep, cool, keep rolling please 544 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:35,959 Speaker 4: cool action. I'm Batman cart what Christian? The line is 545 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 4: just listen carefully, I'm Batman. Okay, he's a man, but 546 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 4: he's also a bat Batman. 547 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 3: Sure all right, because. 548 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 4: At the moment you're saying batman. 549 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,640 Speaker 3: Oh okay, sorry, okay, okay, rolling. 550 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 4: Action. 551 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,880 Speaker 2: I'm batman cart I think that's good. 552 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 4: No, it's not good because you're saying batman Batman's yeah, yeah, 553 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 4: that's what you're saying batman. And the line is batman. 554 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 3: Man, say batman Batman. Now say batman Batman. 555 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 4: There's a different there's a different keep it rolling camera, 556 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 4: yep action. 557 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 3: I'm bat Man. I got confused. Sorry, we'll do it again. 558 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,719 Speaker 2: I'm okay, I'm batman man. 559 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 3: Oh wait, what is it card? Look you had it there. 560 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 3: You said I'm batman, but then they changed my mind. 561 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 3: Then you said man. 562 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 4: Okay, sorry, we might can we do any No, it. 563 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 3: Was too close together. Okay, I'm gonna have to do 564 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 3: it again. Just just just take a breath. Yeah. 565 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 4: Now, I know that when you say a woman or 566 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 4: night watchman or you know, Anchorman or all these things, 567 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 4: you say men man like onwardsman yep, But now we're 568 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 4: saying Batman because we want to emphasize the man man 569 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 4: the Batman. 570 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay, okay, man, Okay, I'm Batman. 571 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 4: You can do it. 572 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 2: Okay, I can do it. 573 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 3: Ready, take your time. Action. 574 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 5: I'm Batman, cat I'm Batman, I'm Batman. 575 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 4: I'm Batman. 576 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 3: Okay, I'm playing. 577 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 2: I'm just trying to give you some options. I'm bat Sorry. 578 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 4: The thing is, he's not James Brown. 579 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 3: Yeah he could be James Brown. 580 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 4: No he's not, because we've just made three movies where 581 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 4: he's not James Brown. 582 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 2: I just think that that would be a very brave choice. 583 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 3: I know you do. 584 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 4: And this is the last shot, and everyone's very tired. Sorry, 585 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 4: so just think about it. Just say, I'm Batman, you're Batman, 586 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 4: you're a Batman. No, I'm not Batman. 587 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: I'm not Batman. 588 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 3: I'm not bad. 589 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,239 Speaker 4: You're doing you know what the line is I do. 590 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 4: You're Batman? What, I'm just okay, action. 591 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 3: You're Batman. No, it's not your I'm okay, he's Batman. 592 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 3: No it's not he's he's you're Batman. 593 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 2: Who's Batman? You are I'm Batman? Oh, I'm Batman. 594 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 4: We got it. 595 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: Can't so tell me how how did the idea for 596 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: that sketch come about? 597 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 3: I can't remember. End of podcast. 598 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 2: I was at a party with a friend and. 599 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 5: We were explaining to this this guy that John Batman 600 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 5: was oh was It was me and Andy Burford and 601 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 5: we were explaining to this guy that John Batman was 602 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 5: one of the colonizers of the land that we're on. 603 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 3: And uh uh. 604 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 5: For some reason, Andy just kept pronouncing Batman, Batman, Batman, 605 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 5: and I was like, it is John Batman, yeah, but 606 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 5: he kept calling him Batman. 607 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's what it is. Batman. 608 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,239 Speaker 2: No, Batman, No, his name's not. And that's exactly how 609 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 2: it happened. Like it's exactly how it happened. 610 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 5: And then the movie was coming out at the same 611 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 5: at the same time, and I said to Rich, Okay, 612 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 5: so the premise of this sketch is. 613 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 3: I don't know how to say Batman and that. 614 00:30:54,360 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 5: Recording is an improvisation of the first take the sketch. 615 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 3: Wow is it? Wow? 616 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 4: Yeah? 617 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 5: It really is, so it's edited. 618 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 4: That's the first thing we recorded. Yeah, it's the first 619 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 4: first track. It's the first like audio sketch we ever recorded. 620 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 4: The first take of the first thing we ever recorded 621 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 4: was that one. Yeah, it's the most popular thing we've 622 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 4: ever done. 623 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 5: Yeah. 624 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: Basically, what is the work that goes into everything that 625 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: happens up to the first take? 626 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 4: Right, We've changed the way we work a little bit 627 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 4: since then. I think it's about what's the problem and 628 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 4: how do we create more problems? And how does one 629 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 4: person try and solve the problem in a funny way? 630 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 5: Yeah? And how does some And my job is always 631 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 5: to keep the problem going as long as I can, yes, 632 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 5: and then reject all of Rich's suggestions. 633 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 4: The fun thing about it and the mode for us 634 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 4: is who's on first? You know that very famous screed 635 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 4: by Abbot and Costello. That is our mode, which I don't, 636 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 4: be honest, don't even find that funny, But I enjoy 637 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 4: the artistry of creating this like hermetically sealed joke. And 638 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 4: you're not adding any new information really, and the person 639 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 4: who's seen. And the funny the thing is actually what 640 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 4: is it is funny when the guy I come remember 641 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 4: with out Costello and he's like, I'm gonna smack. 642 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 2: You in the mouth if he's. 643 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 4: The funny thing is how his frustration builds and builds 644 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 4: and builds. 645 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, and again it's a benign thing. It's a weird 646 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 5: thing for someone person to be getting really upset at 647 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 5: another person about And we translated that sketch to stage 648 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 5: and then we from there. We kind of we had 649 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 5: to hit a We had to reshape it so that 650 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 5: it had more of a more of a shape to it. 651 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 5: So I needed to build more and we needed to 652 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 5: We needed to Richard. We need for rich to get 653 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 5: really really mad and then just have this moment where 654 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 5: he gathered himself. 655 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 3: You just say I'm Batman and then we'll all be finished. 656 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 5: Yeah. 657 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,239 Speaker 4: And then Matt Sack I am trying to like that 658 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 4: I think is key for me. And we've realized this 659 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 4: is Matt is not trying to conf. 660 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 5: I'm always trying to help. 661 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 2: He's trying to help and that. 662 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 6: But he's just too stupid to be able to help. 663 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 6: And the question, the deeper question for me is Why 664 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 6: does this character rich? Why does he stay with this 665 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 6: guy like he's so frustrated. 666 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 4: This is something I got actually from talking to Frank 667 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 4: Woodley about clowns and about double acts, and it's like 668 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 4: he thinks that the power of the double act and 669 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 4: the reason why there's a straight guy funny guy, and 670 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 4: that's endured through you know, you have it from the 671 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 4: Greek comedy all the way through is that you're seeing 672 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 4: the internal what's normally internal externalized. So we all have 673 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,719 Speaker 4: these debates with ourselves. We have a part of us 674 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 4: that really wants a sandwich, and a part of us 675 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 4: and knows we shouldn't eat bread, and then but we 676 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 4: really want to, and why can't I have the bread? 677 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 3: Now you're not allowed to have the bread. I told you, 678 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 3: you know you'll you'll get gas if we have the bread. 679 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 4: We have those debates and then seeing them outside is 680 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 4: just sort of so I don't know, almost therapeutic for 681 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 4: someone to see. And and it also allows us to 682 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,240 Speaker 4: see that horrible frustration we experience in traffic or whatever. 683 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 3: You know, Oh my god, I'm going to call you 684 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 3: if you cut my ass. 685 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 4: But then if you do it on stage, you're like, oh, yeah, 686 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 4: I did want to kill him, you know. 687 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 3: Oh, Matt is really frustrating. Yeah, so I don't know 688 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 3: if that. 689 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 4: I think what's funny with what is that in the 690 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 4: preparation that's not in the preparation. 691 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 3: This is the philosophy of why of why why we 692 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:43,879 Speaker 3: think double? How do we prepare it? It's about finding 693 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 3: the problems. 694 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, And and also with that, I think one of 695 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,320 Speaker 5: the reasons why that sketch it works is that Batman 696 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 5: is so serious. It's such a pose and super mask like. 697 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 3: But he doesn't know how to say it, but he. 698 00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 2: Doesn't even know. 699 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 5: But also that it's I'm I'm just casually doing it 700 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,320 Speaker 5: like and then in an instant turn. And so I 701 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 5: think it's that contrast. And when we put it on stage. 702 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, you physically turn to the audience and go, I'm Batman. Yeah. 703 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 5: But the line before that on stage is I go 704 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 5: look at my look at our swishy my cape is 705 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 5: that's right, swishy my cape. It's the rich goes Matt, 706 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 5: you're Batman, and I go, sorry. 707 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 3: Look at us, swishy my CAPI is. So that is funny. 708 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 3: I forgot about that. 709 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,439 Speaker 5: And that's the thing that we've kind of It's also 710 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 5: another thing that we picked up from from the workshops 711 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 5: that we did with Tim Ferguson was like playing contrast 712 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 5: as well, like upping, so simple, upping the contrast as 713 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 5: much as you can. What's the biggest distance we can 714 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 5: get between Matt and Batman? Uh? 715 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 3: And yeah, something Batman would never say. 716 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 5: Never say that, but it's a perfectly normal thing for 717 00:35:58,640 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 5: me to say on stage. 718 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,880 Speaker 4: And to be fair, Batman's cake is very swishy, so 719 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 4: it's not wrong. 720 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 3: Also, kids know Batman and they know they know Batman. 721 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 5: But I think I think the reason I love that 722 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 5: is it's just like a man is so serious. The 723 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 5: movies are like three hours long and it's all about like. 724 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 3: Well, I like the one where he used to do 725 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,800 Speaker 3: the tuc yeah, the old Batman. 726 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 1: For people that want to consume more of the list is, 727 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: what is the best way for people to do that? 728 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 4: Oh, you could go to our website www. Dot the 729 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,919 Speaker 4: lists dot com or www dot the Listies dot net 730 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 4: dot org, dot e d U dot au, forward slash 731 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 4: slash pound sign tilled. 732 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,399 Speaker 5: We've also we've also got all of our albums are 733 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 5: on Spotify and we've got yeah. 734 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 4: Two, We've got that books out and you can see 735 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 4: our TV show on iView And did I mention the podcast? 736 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 5: There's a podcast. It's called The Listies Make You loll. 737 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 1: Rich and Matt. It has been an absolute delight. I 738 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: feel like I'm so familiar with your voices through the many, 739 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: many times I listen to you every week in the 740 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: car with my daughter Frankie. So thank you so much 741 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: for sharing what goes on behind the scene. 742 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 5: It's actually a really amazing thing to get to be 743 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 5: able to talk about it, isn't it Rich Like. 744 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 3: It sure is? Yeah, No, it's been a pleasure. Thank 745 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:23,399 Speaker 3: you very much for having us. 746 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,240 Speaker 1: One of the things that has stuck with me since 747 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,800 Speaker 1: doing this interview is how the list is thought about 748 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,800 Speaker 1: keeping kids' attentions, because really adults are not all that different. 749 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 1: I mean, keeping people captivated during a zoom meeting that 750 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: you're running can be quite challenging. So what might your 751 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: equivalent of a genre change or a major prop change 752 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,919 Speaker 1: fee when you're trying to hold people's attention, especially when 753 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: doing things in the virtual world where there are so 754 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 1: many other things competing for everybody's attention. How I Work 755 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: is produced by Inventing, with production support from dead Set Studios. 756 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: The producer for this episode was Liam Riordan, and thank 757 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 1: you tomt Nimba, who does the audio mix for every 758 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: episode and makes everything sound so much better than it 759 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: would have otherwise. 760 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 2: See you next time.