1
00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,560
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

2
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,119
Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

3
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,760
Speaker 2: wants answers. Now, it's the Happy Families Podcast. Hello stopped.

4
00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,960
Speaker 1: Justin Colson the founder of Happy Families dot com dot

5
00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,000
Speaker 1: a U and the author of six actually seven, the

6
00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,080
Speaker 1: seventh one's about to come out, seven books about how

7
00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,799
Speaker 1: to make families happier. Today, Kylie's not with me, but

8
00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,040
Speaker 1: instead I'm joined by a special guest from Ohio in

9
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,360
Speaker 1: the United States. Doctor Kate Glick is an Associate Professor

10
00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,400
Speaker 1: of Clinical Nursing at the Ohio State University College of

11
00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,199
Speaker 1: Nursing and a nurse practitioner, and she recently conceived and

12
00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:43,120
Speaker 1: conducted the Burnout Scale and Report.

13
00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,160
Speaker 2: Looking at how parents have gone during COVID.

14
00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:46,760
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about that in just a sec

15
00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,560
Speaker 1: because parents are burned out even without COVID. Parents have

16
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,919
Speaker 1: burned out, but COVID has only accelerated, exacerbated and amplified

17
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 1: the problems. I might also mention that Kate knows a

18
00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,000
Speaker 1: bit about parenting during COVID and parenting generally, because she

19
00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,760
Speaker 1: has four kids and under. And she joins me now,

20
00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:04,880
Speaker 1: doctor Golik, Great to have you with me. Thanks so

21
00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:05,960
Speaker 1: much for being on the podcast.

22
00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:08,319
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.

23
00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:09,720
Speaker 2: Do you mind if I call you Kaite?

24
00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:11,080
Speaker 3: Yes? Please?

25
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,480
Speaker 1: Kate, tell me a bit about this study parents burnout.

26
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,480
Speaker 1: How do you define burnout when you're looking at parenting?

27
00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:23,520
Speaker 3: So, burnout is really that chronic stress and that chronic

28
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:30,759
Speaker 3: overwhelming exhaustion that parents feel that actually overwhelms their ability

29
00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:35,920
Speaker 3: to cope and often even function. And typically it's due

30
00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,160
Speaker 3: to some kind of mismatch between their stressors and then

31
00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,800
Speaker 3: the resources that are available. But typically it just leaves

32
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:49,440
Speaker 3: parents feeling very physically and mentally emotionally exhausted. And then

33
00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:51,840
Speaker 3: the other thing I can do is actually cause that

34
00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,520
Speaker 3: feeling of detachment from their children.

35
00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,000
Speaker 1: Kate, I don't want to make light of what you're saying,

36
00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,240
Speaker 1: but as I listened to much of your description, I

37
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,760
Speaker 1: think that kind of describes most parents most of the time, right.

38
00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,280
Speaker 2: I mean, every parent that.

39
00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,080
Speaker 1: I talk to says I'm tired, I'm exhausted, I'm overwhelmed.

40
00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,560
Speaker 1: It's really hard to raise kids, especially in a world

41
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:11,359
Speaker 1: like the one we live in today. I don't think

42
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,560
Speaker 1: that the world that we've created for ourselves is particularly

43
00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:19,040
Speaker 1: kind to families and especially children and parents. But my

44
00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,280
Speaker 1: sense is that as you're describing that overwhelming exhaustion, that

45
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,119
Speaker 1: so tired and so much going on that I don't

46
00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:30,000
Speaker 1: quite know how to function, that's probably starting to select

47
00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,880
Speaker 1: us a much smaller number of parents not just exhausted,

48
00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,320
Speaker 1: but not actually functioning. But then you've hadded that last

49
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,639
Speaker 1: bit that I think must be critically important and must

50
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,160
Speaker 1: also be heartbreaking for a parent to experience, and that

51
00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:42,040
Speaker 1: is a sense.

52
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,359
Speaker 2: Of detachment from their kids.

53
00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,679
Speaker 1: It sounds almost like it's aligned with depression, that inability

54
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,080
Speaker 1: to feel to connect.

55
00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think what's funny about the term emotions. Funny,

56
00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,160
Speaker 3: but you know, I was feeling, you know, this feeling

57
00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,919
Speaker 3: and I didn't know what it was. I'm like, I

58
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,160
Speaker 3: don't feel depressed, I don't feel anxious, and it seemed

59
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,360
Speaker 3: to be very centered on that parenting role. And I

60
00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,720
Speaker 3: heard the term parental burnout and I was like, that's it, Like,

61
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,120
Speaker 3: that's what I'm feeling. And I think that there are

62
00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,880
Speaker 3: very different degrees of burnout and it can really depend.

63
00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,000
Speaker 3: You know, there's this continuum and you can start to

64
00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,000
Speaker 3: feel you know, mild burnout, and then you get to

65
00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,239
Speaker 3: more severe burnout. And when you get to that severe burnout,

66
00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,760
Speaker 3: and that's when it's really really a problem. But there

67
00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:31,720
Speaker 3: are a lot of preventative things that we can kind

68
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,320
Speaker 3: of do in between to make sure and you know,

69
00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:39,240
Speaker 3: help so you don't get to that overwhelming sense of

70
00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:40,960
Speaker 3: I can't do this anymore feeling.

71
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,040
Speaker 1: When you describe that, it reminds me of that article

72
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,800
Speaker 1: that pretty much the whole World Soul that Adam Grant

73
00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,240
Speaker 1: wrote in The New York Times a couple of months

74
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:54,000
Speaker 1: ago about languishing. But he distinguishes between burnout and languishing.

75
00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,560
Speaker 1: So we've got languishing, which is feeling joyless and aimless.

76
00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,520
Speaker 1: But then we've got burnout, which is not having energy,

77
00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,920
Speaker 1: not knowing how to function, and feeling completely overwhelmed. And

78
00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,760
Speaker 1: we're adding a sense of detachment from the kids. And

79
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:13,920
Speaker 1: if we look at burnout and the parental experience, how

80
00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,680
Speaker 1: many parents are really experiencing this sense of what you

81
00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,880
Speaker 1: described that you went through, this sense of parental burnout.

82
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,360
Speaker 3: So with our study, it was about sixty six percent

83
00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:30,640
Speaker 3: of parents. And our study was conducted in January to

84
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,000
Speaker 3: April of twenty twenty one, so it was still in

85
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,839
Speaker 3: that phase. It wasn't like the immediate phase it was

86
00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,919
Speaker 3: kind of like this phase where everybody was still you know,

87
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,640
Speaker 3: parents were having to adapt and be flexible to all

88
00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,559
Speaker 3: these different circumstances all the time, and like you didn't

89
00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,240
Speaker 3: necessarily know what next week was going to look like,

90
00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:50,719
Speaker 3: or you know, if you were going to have a

91
00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,400
Speaker 3: kid home, or if your kids were even going to

92
00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,159
Speaker 3: be in school. You know. So all of these factors,

93
00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,880
Speaker 3: along with this loss of a sense of control, I

94
00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,360
Speaker 3: think really contribute to this in parents. You know. So

95
00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:04,840
Speaker 3: we weren't in that immediate phase, but we were in

96
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,320
Speaker 3: this like long haul phase where everybody's just feeling it

97
00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,360
Speaker 3: and we just we don't know how to get rid

98
00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,680
Speaker 3: of it, you know, because again we've just lost so

99
00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,640
Speaker 3: much control over so many different things. So I think

100
00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,360
Speaker 3: that was part of the reason why that was so high.

101
00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,599
Speaker 2: I love that turn of phrase, that focus on control.

102
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,760
Speaker 1: I remember reading about organization or burnout back when I

103
00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,840
Speaker 1: used to be a doctoral student.

104
00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,679
Speaker 2: Myself, and people who are stressed at.

105
00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,719
Speaker 1: Work, people who are experiencing burnout at work, it usually

106
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,680
Speaker 1: comes from a loss of control, a sense that I'm

107
00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,080
Speaker 1: not able to affect change. Did you find that in

108
00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:40,719
Speaker 1: your research? Have you found that as you've looked at

109
00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,360
Speaker 1: the definitions and the way this works. A parent's mainly

110
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,320
Speaker 1: getting burned out, not because of the stress, the challenge

111
00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,640
Speaker 1: and the overwhelming nature of parenting generally, but the specific

112
00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,240
Speaker 1: element of feeling like they're helpless and can't do anything

113
00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:54,280
Speaker 1: to change things.

114
00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:59,119
Speaker 3: So we didn't specifically look at that metric, which actually

115
00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,920
Speaker 3: would be a wonderful thing to look at, but you know,

116
00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,040
Speaker 3: we did find certain risk factors for tell.

117
00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:05,400
Speaker 2: Me about that.

118
00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you were female, you tended to have higher

119
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,280
Speaker 3: rates of burnout, if you had more than two kids,

120
00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:18,520
Speaker 3: if you yourself experienced any diagnosis of depression, anxiety, if

121
00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,880
Speaker 3: your child had a diagnosis of anxiety or ADHD. And

122
00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:29,120
Speaker 3: then interestingly enough, the parents that thought their child had

123
00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,880
Speaker 3: some type of mental health disorder but it hadn't yet

124
00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,840
Speaker 3: but been diagnosed. Okay, and again you kind of see

125
00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,560
Speaker 3: that loss of control there where they're feeling like, I

126
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,120
Speaker 3: don't know what's going on, you know, So that actually

127
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,120
Speaker 3: caused and was associated with higher rates of burnout too.

128
00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,719
Speaker 1: I just want to unpack a few of us briefly.

129
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,159
Speaker 1: Tom will get away from his doing it thoroughly, but

130
00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:51,240
Speaker 1: let's just have a look at this. First of all,

131
00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:56,240
Speaker 1: female much more predictive of experiencing burnout than male. I've

132
00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,320
Speaker 1: got a couple of hypotheses for why this would be.

133
00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,960
Speaker 1: But what did you find in your research? Why is

134
00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,200
Speaker 1: it the boys don't feel the burnout with the pressure

135
00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:04,400
Speaker 1: of the stress like the girls do.

136
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,279
Speaker 3: Well. I definitely think, especially during this pandemic, fathers were

137
00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,320
Speaker 3: also very much so affected. But I think, you know,

138
00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,680
Speaker 3: being female and the mother, you're kind of like holding

139
00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,320
Speaker 3: it all together, and oftentimes that you know what I

140
00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,840
Speaker 3: think of like the invisible backpack of you know, keeping

141
00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,440
Speaker 3: the house clean, doing the cooking and cleaning, being that

142
00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,560
Speaker 3: emotional support system often falls to the role of the mother,

143
00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,880
Speaker 3: and so again you're just layering things on an already

144
00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:37,840
Speaker 3: stressful situation and it's just too much, you know, like

145
00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,560
Speaker 3: we're not super humans. That I felt, you know, during

146
00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,400
Speaker 3: the pandemic, I was supposed to be all of these roles,

147
00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:46,640
Speaker 3: you know, and doing all these things, and being a

148
00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,000
Speaker 3: teacher and a full time employee and you know, a

149
00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,480
Speaker 3: spouse and all of these things. It's like you can't,

150
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:54,720
Speaker 3: you can't do it all.

151
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,720
Speaker 1: In the early part of my marriage, and this is

152
00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:59,600
Speaker 1: a hard thing to disclose, but in the early part

153
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:00,320
Speaker 1: of my marriage.

154
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:01,760
Speaker 2: I was a radio and out sorry.

155
00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:03,960
Speaker 1: I worked for one of the major radio stations here

156
00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,480
Speaker 1: in Australia, and I had the attitude. In fact, I

157
00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,640
Speaker 1: was explicit and open with my wife about it, and

158
00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,679
Speaker 1: she was supportive of it. If I'm going to shoup

159
00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,640
Speaker 1: and be on the radio, I've got to be energetic,

160
00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,760
Speaker 1: I've got to be positive, I've got to be I've

161
00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,320
Speaker 1: got to perform. And therefore I intentionally said to her,

162
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,960
Speaker 1: would you please take on the cognitive load? Would you

163
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,360
Speaker 1: please take on the running of the household, so that

164
00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,800
Speaker 1: I can perform my duties at work as best I can.

165
00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:28,360
Speaker 3: Now.

166
00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,960
Speaker 1: We were fortunate that my wife was in a full

167
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,320
Speaker 1: time home making role and so she was willing to

168
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,839
Speaker 1: and happy to dedicate her focus to that. But had

169
00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,400
Speaker 1: she been working, that would have been a really hard

170
00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,520
Speaker 1: thing to ask for her. It was a hard thing anyway.

171
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,160
Speaker 1: As time has gone on, I've recognized that asking my

172
00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,160
Speaker 1: wife to shoulder the entire cognitive load of the family

173
00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,240
Speaker 1: is a little unfair and have worked really hard to

174
00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,720
Speaker 1: distribute the burden of that a little bit more effectively.

175
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,000
Speaker 1: And I don't think we've done a reasonable job of that.

176
00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,719
Speaker 1: But just hearing you talk about this heightens my w

177
00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,200
Speaker 1: of just how much work there is for men to

178
00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,480
Speaker 1: do to make life a little easier for the women

179
00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,199
Speaker 1: in their lives. Like the burnout thing is real. After

180
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,320
Speaker 1: the break, we're going to talk a bit more about

181
00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,200
Speaker 1: those other predictors, that is, having kids who have diagnoses

182
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,199
Speaker 1: or perhaps who aren't diagnosed but may need it, and

183
00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,360
Speaker 1: maternal diagnosis of mental illness. Plus we're going to work

184
00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:23,840
Speaker 1: out what we can do to reduce burnout in our families.

185
00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,760
Speaker 1: You've asked politely, you've asked again, you've patiently waited, you've

186
00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,920
Speaker 1: even made a threat, but finally you lose it.

187
00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 2: Listen to me, you shout. In the practical.

188
00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,600
Speaker 1: Webinar the Screaming Spiral, you'll learn the top reasons why

189
00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,320
Speaker 1: your child isn't listening, and you'll get pro tips and

190
00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,920
Speaker 1: strategies to get them to hear without yelling.

191
00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,320
Speaker 2: Available on the Happy Family's webshop.

192
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,680
Speaker 1: Now, it's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the

193
00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,640
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers Now speaking with

194
00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,640
Speaker 1: doctor Kate Glick. Kate is an Associate professor of Clinical

195
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,160
Speaker 1: Nursing at the Ohio State University College of Nursing and

196
00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,400
Speaker 1: a nurse practitioner, a mom of four. We're talking about

197
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,640
Speaker 1: her recent study where parents have been shown to be

198
00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 1: burnt out primarily because of all the chaos during COVID,

199
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,839
Speaker 1: but even without that, Kate, these other predictors, these other

200
00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,440
Speaker 1: things that highlight that parents are going to be at

201
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,760
Speaker 1: risk of experiencing this parental burnout, this overwhelmed, this sense

202
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,600
Speaker 1: of detachment from the kids, the feeling that it's all

203
00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,679
Speaker 1: too much. You also mentioned having their own mental health

204
00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:28,680
Speaker 1: challenges and baggage. That's going to be a big predictor.

205
00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:29,920
Speaker 1: I don't know that we need to unpack that a

206
00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,080
Speaker 1: whole lot, but can we just talk about the additional

207
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,520
Speaker 1: needs of their children. How much does that play a part?

208
00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,520
Speaker 1: How predictive of burnout is that for parents?

209
00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,240
Speaker 3: I don't know exactly if this is answering your question,

210
00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,000
Speaker 3: but another really interesting thing that we found in the

211
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:50,320
Speaker 3: study was that parents that associated it, So parents that

212
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,560
Speaker 3: had higher rates of burnout reported that their child and

213
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,200
Speaker 3: their children had higher rates of certain behaviors. So specifically

214
00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:03,360
Speaker 3: we looked at externalizing, internalizing, and attention behaviors and just

215
00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,160
Speaker 3: to quickly give you a real quick recap on what

216
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,200
Speaker 3: those would look like. So attention behaviors would be like

217
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:14,120
Speaker 3: trouble concentrating, internalizing behaviors would be things like worrying or

218
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:18,240
Speaker 3: feeling sad, and then externalizing behaviors would be acting out,

219
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,720
Speaker 3: fighting with other kids, breaking the rules, you know. So

220
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,920
Speaker 3: we found and it was associated parents that had higher

221
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,520
Speaker 3: rates of burnout also reported these types of behaviors and

222
00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:33,840
Speaker 3: their children. So there's definitely a reflection of how the

223
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,160
Speaker 3: parent is feeling, and that's trickling down to the children.

224
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I reckon, that have to do this reciprocal relationship.

225
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,040
Speaker 1: Right when the kids are behaving in those challenging ways

226
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,400
Speaker 1: or showing up with these these difficult behaviors, then parents

227
00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,680
Speaker 1: are going to feel overwhelmed and brd out. But similarly,

228
00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,600
Speaker 1: when parents are feeling overwhelmed and burn out, when they're

229
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,800
Speaker 1: feeling detached, they're more likely to elicit from the child

230
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,679
Speaker 1: those kinds of behaviors in an attempt to connect the kids,

231
00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,680
Speaker 1: like hang on, where's my mom gone, where's my dad gone?

232
00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,920
Speaker 1: I want I want to feel loved and safe, So

233
00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:02,480
Speaker 1: I can see how that would work. All right, So

234
00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:04,280
Speaker 1: let's because time is going to get away from us

235
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,719
Speaker 1: and we've got to talk about some solutions here if

236
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,000
Speaker 1: families are experiencing overwhelmed, burnout, detachment, if they're going through

237
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,120
Speaker 1: these kinds of things that maybe or may not be

238
00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,679
Speaker 1: related to COVID. I mean it's a reality that families

239
00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,000
Speaker 1: go through this regardless of whether this global.

240
00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,760
Speaker 2: Pandemic or not. What can they do?

241
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,960
Speaker 1: What's your research shown, what solutions, strategies and supports are

242
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:26,000
Speaker 1: there for families.

243
00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,000
Speaker 3: So I think the biggest thing is first of all,

244
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,440
Speaker 3: identifying that it's burnout, making sure it's not something else

245
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,120
Speaker 3: like depression or anxiety. You know, really identifying that it's burnout.

246
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,360
Speaker 3: And there is a scale that you can use that

247
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:42,080
Speaker 3: we developed to actually rate yourself and it kind of

248
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,680
Speaker 3: tells you, you know, how extreme your burnout is too.

249
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,640
Speaker 3: It's called the working Parent Burnout Scale. And then so

250
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,920
Speaker 3: depending on where you are on that continuum, it really

251
00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:52,640
Speaker 3: depends on what you're going to do. Right, So if

252
00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,199
Speaker 3: you're kind of in that mild range, it's really about prevention.

253
00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:00,120
Speaker 3: So continuing to you know, do the things that you're doing. Obviously,

254
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,320
Speaker 3: practicing self care is going to be a huge thing.

255
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,040
Speaker 3: Making sure you're getting enough sleep. I know I say

256
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:07,800
Speaker 3: that to parents and some parents are like, how am

257
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:09,560
Speaker 3: I going to get sleep like my kids are sick?

258
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,679
Speaker 3: I have an infinema all night. You know, do what

259
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:16,440
Speaker 3: you can get outside, you know, exercise, you can do

260
00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,360
Speaker 3: those things with your kids most of the time, and

261
00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,240
Speaker 3: just control the things you can, like your diet. You know,

262
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,160
Speaker 3: all of those things are going to you know, improve

263
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,200
Speaker 3: and help with the self care. Connecting with other parents

264
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,200
Speaker 3: who are in similar situations, who have similar kids. If

265
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,640
Speaker 3: you know a kid has a diagnosis, it's always helpful

266
00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,760
Speaker 3: to talk to another parent who might have a child

267
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,760
Speaker 3: with that situation too. So that connection piece is also huge.

268
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,240
Speaker 3: When you start getting up more into like the moderate

269
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,120
Speaker 3: burnout phase, this is really where it needs to be

270
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,640
Speaker 3: more individualized. So it's not going to look the same

271
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,640
Speaker 3: for everybody. So really it's about increasing your resources and

272
00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,719
Speaker 3: decreasing your stressors. So again, this isn't going to look

273
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,840
Speaker 3: the same for everyone. But let's say take somebody like myself.

274
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,120
Speaker 3: Elementary age children were starting to get into a lot

275
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,880
Speaker 3: of activities. An example of decreasing my stress maybe is

276
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,959
Speaker 3: to not do so many after school activities. But if

277
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,400
Speaker 3: I am maybe an increased you know, resource would be

278
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,560
Speaker 3: carpooling more, you know, so the burden isn't always on

279
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,480
Speaker 3: me to get everyone everywhere, So really kind of looking

280
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,120
Speaker 3: at that, and I like to mention this because I

281
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,720
Speaker 3: think it's really important that we all have to understand

282
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,480
Speaker 3: there might be days where you're feeling burned out, there

283
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,480
Speaker 3: might be moments when you're feeling burned out, but to

284
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,760
Speaker 3: just remember that it's not always going to be like that.

285
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,480
Speaker 3: It's not always going to be so hard. So just

286
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,720
Speaker 3: trying to take in the moment, say this is really hard,

287
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,320
Speaker 3: but it's not always going to be this way. And

288
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,280
Speaker 3: when you start getting into more of that severe category

289
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,880
Speaker 3: and even sometimes in the moderate category, that's when it's

290
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,880
Speaker 3: really important to seek help. So talking with a mental

291
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,280
Speaker 3: health care provider or a primary care provider, reaching out

292
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,120
Speaker 3: and letting others know that you know you're struggling and

293
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,880
Speaker 3: that you need help and there's no shame in asking

294
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,360
Speaker 3: for that. I think it's so hard for parents with

295
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,280
Speaker 3: burnout because it is shaming. You know, we all love

296
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,480
Speaker 3: our kids and everything, but it's it's shaming to parents

297
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,440
Speaker 3: to think that they can get burned out in this role.

298
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:20,920
Speaker 3: And so I think it's something we just need to

299
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:25,000
Speaker 3: be talking about more and you know, normalizing in a way,

300
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,520
Speaker 3: because that's really where we can start moving the needle

301
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,400
Speaker 3: on a lot of things that need to be done

302
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:31,600
Speaker 3: at systems levels too.

303
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:32,920
Speaker 1: All Right, So a lot of people are going to

304
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,840
Speaker 1: say yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't want to make

305
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,520
Speaker 1: these changes. I'm really happy with what we're trying to

306
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:40,920
Speaker 1: do and the stuff that we're doing is good.

307
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:42,400
Speaker 2: I've just got to figure out a way to juggle

308
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,240
Speaker 2: it all. What do you say to that, I.

309
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,560
Speaker 3: Mean, it is I mean, it's a great question. And

310
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:51,080
Speaker 3: I think that one thing that I got really good

311
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,760
Speaker 3: at through all of this was learning to say no

312
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,040
Speaker 3: and learning my own limitations, and that's how I feel

313
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,320
Speaker 3: like I've been able to maintain And I think that

314
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,680
Speaker 3: you know, we emphasize all these things, this child development,

315
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,720
Speaker 3: you know, all of that, but really when it comes

316
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,920
Speaker 3: down to it too, like kids need to play, you know,

317
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,400
Speaker 3: they need that time too where they're in these unstructured activities,

318
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,520
Speaker 3: and that's where a lot of that brain development and

319
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,960
Speaker 3: those things occur too, you know. So I think keeping

320
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,920
Speaker 3: that in mind, and you know, if you are somebody

321
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,280
Speaker 3: that's feeling burned out, and I don't know that I'm

322
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,040
Speaker 3: going to be you know, the most popular person for

323
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,600
Speaker 3: saying this. But you know, if you're continuing to feel

324
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,360
Speaker 3: that burnout and you're continuing to do the same things,

325
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,480
Speaker 3: you're going to continue to get the same results. So

326
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,640
Speaker 3: you have to do something different. You have to make

327
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,680
Speaker 3: a change if you want different results. And so you

328
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 3: know that's where it is very individualized kind of looking

329
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,120
Speaker 3: at you know what's going on in your life, and

330
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,080
Speaker 3: again you know, what are your stressors, what are your resources,

331
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,600
Speaker 3: and really evaluating and making that call, and it's going

332
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:03,760
Speaker 3: to look different for everyone.

333
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,800
Speaker 1: Some straight shooting from doctor Kate Golick from the Ohio

334
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,919
Speaker 1: State University College of Nursing. Kate, thanks so much for

335
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,439
Speaker 1: sharing your research findings with us. We will link to

336
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,600
Speaker 1: the full report in our show notes as well as

337
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,920
Speaker 1: the burnout scale so parents can do a self assessment

338
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,000
Speaker 1: and work out where they're landing here and whether they

339
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,040
Speaker 1: might need to take some kind of action to reduce

340
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,439
Speaker 1: the stress, pressure and overwhelm in their lives.

341
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,359
Speaker 2: Great talking to you, Thank you so much.

342
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,959
Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rulan from

343
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:31,480
Speaker 1: Bridge Media.

344
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,159
Speaker 2: Craig Bruce is our executive producer and if you'd like.

345
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,760
Speaker 1: More information about overcoming burnout, and making your family happy.

346
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,399
Speaker 1: Please check out our Happy Families memberships. All the info

347
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:49,640
Speaker 1: is at happy families dot com, dot A you