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Speaker 1: Get a.

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Speaker 2: I'm Laala Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter, and professional oversharer.

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Speaker 2: This podcast is all about celebrating failure because I believe

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Speaker 2: it's a chance for us to learn, grow and face

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Speaker 2: our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview a different guest

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Speaker 2: about their highs as well as they're lows, all in

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Speaker 2: a bid to.

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Speaker 1: Inspire us to fearlessly fail.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, Welcome to today's pod. Today's guest is actually

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Speaker 2: a dear friend of mine. We've figured out we've been

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Speaker 2: mates for over a decade. His name is Rhys Carter.

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Speaker 2: He's an incredible children's author and we're here to talk

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Speaker 2: about his brand new debut, bamb I want to say Bambinos,

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Speaker 2: but kiddie's fiction book. It is spooky. It is all

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Speaker 2: about friendship, bravery. It's called A Girl Called Corpse.

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Speaker 1: It is officially out.

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Speaker 2: So we talk about his writing process, but we also

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Speaker 2: talk about his journey to becoming a children's author.

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Speaker 1: Rees and I came up in.

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Speaker 2: The health and wellness world together, and he's written two

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Speaker 2: books about health and wellness before this, so it was

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Speaker 2: really awesome to hear his journey interchasing his real passion.

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Speaker 1: And I also.

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Speaker 2: Loved hearing his process as a writer as well. So

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Speaker 2: you're gonna love this app Thank you so much, Reese.

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Speaker 2: We have been talking about this episode and recording this

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Speaker 2: episode for.

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Speaker 1: A year now, so we made it happen. And congrats

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Speaker 1: on your new book, my dear friend. It's officially out

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Speaker 1: now and I'm so proud of you.

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Speaker 2: I just said I have to hit record because I

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Speaker 2: could talk to Reese Carter, incredible author all day long.

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Speaker 2: I inhaled a girl called corpse in I said to

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Speaker 2: you just then three days I think I did it

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Speaker 2: into I think I wrote you in La and was like,

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Speaker 2: I can't put this down.

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Speaker 3: You were a speed reader. I couldn't believe it. From

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Speaker 3: the day it arrived, I was like, oh, Lola's God.

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Speaker 3: I look forward to hear what she thinks in you know,

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Speaker 3: a few weeks and all of a sudden, like I

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Speaker 3: felt like twenty minutes later, you're like.

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Speaker 1: Recie, I loved it. I always reading that loud?

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Speaker 4: Oh were you just were?

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Speaker 3: There are some voices that need to be done there right,

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Speaker 3: witches need to be heard out loud.

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Speaker 1: Oh the witches are my fave.

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Speaker 4: Oh they're so good.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like, im nasty I will admit that I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure what this says about me, but I loved

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Speaker 3: writing the villains. The baddies are so much fun. It's

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Speaker 3: also fun to kind of, you know, knock them off

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Speaker 3: their perch at the end because they're so revolting.

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Speaker 2: But ah, oh okay, okay, So first I could, like

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Speaker 2: I said, I could talk to you all day long,

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Speaker 2: and we've been gabbing all for the last like half

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Speaker 2: an hour before we hit record on this.

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Speaker 1: But in a sentence, are you?

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Speaker 2: Are you?

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Speaker 1: Is it young fiction author? What's the what's your title?

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Speaker 3: So I am a I am a middle grade fiction author,

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Speaker 3: which means I write for eight to twelve year olds

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Speaker 3: and I write spooky fantasies.

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Speaker 2: I was about to say perfect timing. With Halloween just

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Speaker 2: around the corner as well.

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Speaker 4: Perfect timing, this is a very Halloween e book.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I want to deep dive this book, your process,

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Speaker 2: all of that, But first, can we rewind the clock.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember the first day we met?

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Speaker 3: The first day we met, it must have been at

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Speaker 3: a health food show, that's right, parent health. And I'm

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Speaker 3: a little ashamed to admit this because we've now been

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Speaker 3: friends for a very long time. But at first I

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Speaker 3: was just a big old fanboy. I think I came in.

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Speaker 3: Did I already have your book?

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Speaker 2: I think someone got my first book for you and

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Speaker 2: put under the Christmas tree inspiring Ingredients.

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Speaker 3: I think it might have been my sister, and I

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Speaker 3: think she got it because I was like Lola Berry

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Speaker 3: is like the Madonna of.

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Speaker 4: Health food.

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Speaker 1: Cut to We then became mates.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, and we've been mates what twelve years now?

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Speaker 4: Is it that long? Or am I exaggerating there? It

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Speaker 4: would be I think it would be.

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Speaker 2: And you and I both became the post of Children

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Speaker 2: for where we studied nutrition and neutropathy.

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Speaker 4: Yes, we did for meny. That feels like a million

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Speaker 4: years ago.

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Speaker 3: But our faces would be sitting on those posters side

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Speaker 3: by side, and then you and I we'd be going

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Speaker 3: for our walks on the weekend around the town.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: I remember when you had a clinic in like just

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Speaker 2: off Danding Long Road. You had a clinic space.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, right on the corner there on the corner

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Speaker 3: of Williams Road Williams Road, and says that Williams Street.

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Speaker 3: It's been so long since I've been in Melbourne. Williams

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Speaker 3: Road is where the clinic was, and then.

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Speaker 2: We've been to events and a health event and like

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Speaker 2: a lou Lemon fashion show I've been to with you.

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Speaker 4: That sounds right, That does sound right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, can you believe we've had such ata You know,

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Speaker 3: so much of our friendship has been through the times

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Speaker 3: we were both working in health and wellness.

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Speaker 1: And you've written two health and wellness books before.

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Speaker 3: I have to Yes, I've written Towo've written The Garden

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Speaker 3: Apothecary in the Happy Gut. But we've also been talking

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Speaker 3: about me coming on this body for so long?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, how long have I been trying? You're like,

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Speaker 2: you need to wait for a girl called corps. You

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Speaker 2: need to wait for girl called Corps.

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Speaker 3: Well, honestly, it feels like this is kind of perfect

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Speaker 3: timing in a way, you know what I mean. Like

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Speaker 3: we tried to make this happen for so so long.

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Speaker 3: I tried around a year ago, I reckon, But this

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Speaker 3: feels right, you know what I mean, Because this is

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Speaker 3: this is the kind of the next evolution of what

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Speaker 3: I'm doing, and it's away from health, and it feels

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Speaker 3: great to be doing it at the same time that

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Speaker 3: you are in La chasing new dreams as well.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: We've both had a lot of phone calls. I used

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Speaker 2: to stand at the back of my house in Bangalow

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Speaker 2: and I'd be like, race what I do because you've

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Speaker 2: also spent time in America, and you were like, all right,

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Speaker 2: this is what you do, don't question it. And I

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Speaker 2: feel like we've both kind of like been through interesting

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Speaker 2: kind of transitions in a weird kind of way into

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Speaker 2: doing what we're kind of put here to.

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Speaker 4: Do, you know, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: I think you know, we started our careers in you know,

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Speaker 3: health and wellness, and that's been fantastic. But I think

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Speaker 3: that I'm not sure if you will agree with me,

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Speaker 3: but I know that I am a more multifaceted person

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Speaker 3: than just one thing. And I did feel kind of

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Speaker 3: that when I created this, I was really strongly branded

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Speaker 3: as health person. Yeah, it kind of limited me in

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Speaker 3: terms of it. Well, there are so many other things

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Speaker 3: I wanted to do, and so many other things I

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Speaker 3: wanted to yeah, do and achieve and pursue, and it

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Speaker 3: can seem really hard to actually break out of that.

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Speaker 2: Well, I remember back in the day, as I say,

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Speaker 2: back in the day, you were practicing and doing a

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Speaker 2: lot of like health ambassadory stuff, had your books out,

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Speaker 2: but you were writing more of this style at nighttime.

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Speaker 4: Completely.

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Speaker 3: I had this whole secret double life. I would be

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Speaker 3: working as a nutritionist during the day or a naturopath,

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Speaker 3: and then ended up doing some further study and nutrition,

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Speaker 3: so I was doing both by day. But yeah, then

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Speaker 3: by night I would go home and I would write

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Speaker 3: middle grade fiction. And I have been writing middle grade

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Speaker 3: fiction since I was so honestly, since I was about

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Speaker 3: twelve years old. It's twelve or thirteen years old. And

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Speaker 3: so it's so funny now because obviously the books come

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Speaker 3: out and I'm doing these interviews and people often ask, oh,

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Speaker 3: what made you, what made you gearshift, what made you change,

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Speaker 3: what made you try your hand at writing children's fiction.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, there's no trying my hand at This is

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Speaker 3: like an interest in a love that has predated anything else,

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Speaker 3: and it just takes being a writer. There is so much,

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Speaker 3: many hurdles and so many kind of setbacks along the

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Speaker 3: way that you have to overcome. And so I've been

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Speaker 3: doing it, as I say, you know, behind the scenes,

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Speaker 3: for a really really long time.

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Speaker 4: Wrote three full.

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Speaker 1: Length that's about to say.

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Speaker 3: Yes, three full length manuscripts that didn't go anywhere before

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Speaker 3: I finally kind of wrote the right story and now

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Speaker 3: here it is.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 2: Okay, can we talk a called corpse because first of all,

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at the cover I read is it called

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Speaker 2: an arc?

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Speaker 1: The Advance read a copy.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love the little lingo.

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Speaker 2: But so basically, you had sent it to my house

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Speaker 2: and Byron, my boyfriend, I was like, put it, send

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Speaker 2: it to I was in la. I was like, you

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Speaker 2: need to send it to me, Like put it as

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Speaker 2: we major came in like this really cool coffin box

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Speaker 2: and everything his streamers. He's like, I'm sitting the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: You can have the full experience. And I remember, I

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Speaker 2: just I remember opening it and I was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I love fiction like it's a new I fell in

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Speaker 2: love with fiction when I had a guest on the

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Speaker 2: podcast who's a crime fiction author called Candice Fox, who's

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Speaker 2: incredible star star star, Yeah, a star, and I still.

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Speaker 1: Do him or I'm like what book should I read next?

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Speaker 2: So unaffected as well, do you know received I think

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Speaker 2: it was two hundred and fifty rejection letters Wow from publishers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, she's my age too.

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Speaker 3: And you know what that is. You know that is

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Speaker 3: such a common story. Not necessarily two hundred and fifty,

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Speaker 3: but every single author you ever hear of, all of

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Speaker 3: our favorite authors suffered rejection along the way. And it

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Speaker 3: is a hard thing to kind of wrap your head

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Speaker 3: around as an aspiring author or before I was published,

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Speaker 3: because it still stings, It really really stings. But if

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Speaker 3: you can kind of the only way I could get

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Speaker 3: through it was if I tweak my mindset. I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 3: these are like every single author I love has done

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Speaker 3: me had this, Like every single author you here can

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Speaker 3: talk about, you know, like being able to wallpaper a

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Speaker 3: room with rejections, et cetera, et cetera. So rather than

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Speaker 3: seeing it's a step back, I'm like, oh, this is

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Speaker 3: just an authorly thing. I am a real author because

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Speaker 3: I'm getting rejections.

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Speaker 4: Does that make sense?

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Speaker 1: It's part of it. It's like you've got to do

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Speaker 1: the time.

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Speaker 2: Same with like I think any creative field, like whether

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Speaker 2: it be an actor as well, like people. I always

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Speaker 2: say to people, everyone sees like thor and Chris Hamsworth,

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Speaker 2: but what you don't know is that he was living

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Speaker 2: in a car in La Like there was a few

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Speaker 2: nights where he didn't have somewhere to live.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure you.

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Speaker 2: Know, like this, all these kind of like little things

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Speaker 2: happened for Margo had saved her neighbor's money and then

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Speaker 2: had could survive for a couple of years in La

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Speaker 2: to face the rejection, have the like back herself long enough.

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Speaker 2: So I think, like, I love that you're sharing this part,

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Speaker 2: and like knowing that there are three manuscripts that you know.

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Speaker 3: We're total rubbish, Well we're totally rubbish rubbish.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't going to say I haven't seen the light

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Speaker 2: of day, like, and I think it's so empowering for

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Speaker 2: people to hear that. Okay, so I wanted to know.

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Speaker 3: I was just going to say on that, like, all

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Speaker 3: of them have value. All three of those manuscripts I

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Speaker 3: wrote beforehand have value, even though the first two were

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Speaker 3: objectively terrible and at the time I really really wanted

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Speaker 3: people to read them. And now I'm so glad nobody

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Speaker 3: did the third one. You know, the third one especially,

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Speaker 3: I really think I learned how to write again. It

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Speaker 3: didn't go anywhere. Had I not written those first three,

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't have written the fourth one. I wouldn't have

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Speaker 3: written the fourth one. So you know they talk about

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Speaker 3: having to get you ten thousand hours. I don't know

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Speaker 3: if that's just a arbitrary figure made up out of nowhere,

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Speaker 3: but you definitely have to earn your stripes, and those

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Speaker 3: three stories were me earning my stripes.

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Speaker 1: I figure a thousand mazillion percent. Ah. I mean we

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Speaker 1: just like I said, we just hear the success.

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Speaker 2: We don't hear and we see this beautiful cover and

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Speaker 2: your name on the front in this like cool shiny, Oh.

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Speaker 4: God, it's all rainbow foil shiny, it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: So good.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so I let's steep dive. First of all, I

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Speaker 2: know that it's in a made up land. Can you

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Speaker 2: say what it says?

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Speaker 4: Elston Freight go?

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Speaker 2: Do you know?

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Speaker 4: Do you want to No? No? You What do you

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Speaker 4: want me to say again?

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Speaker 2: Well, I was going to say that I like that.

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Speaker 2: It's actually a nod to know it's a made up place.

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Speaker 2: It's a nod to where you're from, right.

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Speaker 4: One hundred percent?

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Speaker 3: Because you know, so when I was a kid and

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Speaker 3: I loved reading this type of book, they were always

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Speaker 3: set somewhere European or American essentially, and I wanted to

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Speaker 3: write a book that Australian kids read and it felt familiar,

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Speaker 3: like this felt like a ghost story that was happening

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Speaker 3: in their backyard. At the same time, I wanted, you know,

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Speaker 3: I wanted to feel like it could be anywhere, and

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Speaker 3: so it is very much set up as Elston Wright,

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Speaker 3: the dangerous town where all this action happens, could be anywhere.

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Speaker 3: Witches could be lurking, you know, in your own town.

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Speaker 3: But it features huntsmen, spiders and possums, and all of

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Speaker 3: the landscapes are very much based on the southwest of

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Speaker 3: Wa where I came from. So it's like encrusted rocks

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Speaker 3: and you know, blue waters and swaying native peppermint trees

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Speaker 3: and so I do really hope that when kids read

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Speaker 3: this it feels familiar.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean Huntsman Simon.

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Speaker 4: Simon, little Angel, Spider love.

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Speaker 2: Him, Oh I love I love that the like and

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Speaker 2: nod to Home. And we were just talking about beforehand.

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Speaker 2: I was like, this has to become a movie. It's

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Speaker 2: so like I was visualizing it as I was reading it, and.

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Speaker 1: You were like, well, it has to be aussy.

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Speaker 2: You were like, I want it to feel Australian the

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Speaker 2: whole way through, which is so nice because a lot

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Speaker 2: of things, when they get sold don't don't stay ozsy.

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Speaker 1: So I love that you're really passionate about that.

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Speaker 4: Really passionate that I wanted to be ausy.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, there's no sign of that happening yet,

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Speaker 3: but if it does, I will be I will be

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Speaker 3: angling for Australian talent for sure, because we do consume,

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Speaker 3: you know, as kids and as adults, so many stories

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Speaker 3: from the UK and so many stories especially from America,

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Speaker 3: and the cultural differences aren't big enough that we can't

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Speaker 3: follow the story.

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Speaker 4: So I don't feel why it can't be.

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Speaker 2: So easy to follow it. Yeah, it's so easy. Can

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Speaker 2: I put a pitch in? I think you need to

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Speaker 2: be one of the witches.

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Speaker 3: I quite like the idea of that, and I've got

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Speaker 3: I know which witch I want to be, because there's

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Speaker 3: one with purple eyes and an eel's tail where his

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Speaker 3: tongue should be, and I just feel like I would

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Speaker 3: really enjoy getting into that costume.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, so oh well, so okay, so what was

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Speaker 2: your face?

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Speaker 1: So with the witches your favorite to.

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Speaker 3: Write, absolutely, because they're so vile. There's also a secondary

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Speaker 3: it was so fun though. I mean, look, it was

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Speaker 3: all really fun, so I should say that writing the

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Speaker 3: witches was the most fun. There's also another villain, which

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Speaker 3: you know, yeah, I won't.

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Speaker 2: I thought when because I kept I wrote to reason,

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Speaker 2: I was like, I'm reading it out loud, I'm practicing

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Speaker 2: all my voice school stuff, and you're like, there's one

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Speaker 2: person that I think you would be if you did it.

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Speaker 2: And I knew as soon as I got to that page.

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Speaker 2: I was like, now I figured it out.

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Speaker 3: I was like, I know which character you're practicing. Yes,

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Speaker 3: So writing that villain was perhaps even more fun because

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Speaker 3: I think the witches are almost caricatures.

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Speaker 4: You know, they're like really witchy and.

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Speaker 3: Gross, they've got barnacles covering their skin and this coming.

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Speaker 3: But the other villain is a little bit more recognizably human,

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Speaker 3: and I think that makes them more sinister.

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Speaker 2: You don't know, you don't know they're a baddie, and

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Speaker 2: I think that's can I ask. And one of the

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Speaker 2: things I loved and like when I I've lent this

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Speaker 2: book to a couple of mates now and I one

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Speaker 2: of the things I say is are you gonna love it?

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Speaker 2: The baddies are the witches? And they're men, like which

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Speaker 2: is archetype if we look at like which archetypes?

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Speaker 1: They're like old female.

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Speaker 4: Women in these stories.

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Speaker 3: And I definitely so when I started writing it, so

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Speaker 3: there's three witches and can.

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Speaker 1: Say their names.

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Speaker 3: There's well, there's worst Witch who is the leader. There

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Speaker 3: is Scragglene, and there is golf Lunk. And when I

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Speaker 3: first started writing it, worst Witch was actually the man witch,

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Speaker 3: and golf Lunk and Scraggley were women. And I was

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Speaker 3: a few chapters in was like, hang on, why do

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Speaker 3: any of these witches have to be women? Like why

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Speaker 3: can't they all be men? Like what what is it makes?

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Speaker 3: What does it makes you think generic witch should be

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Speaker 3: a woman? And of course, I mean we could go

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Speaker 3: into that because but like because obviously, you know, like witches,

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Speaker 3: you know, there's so much kind of misogyny rooted in

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Speaker 3: the whole concept of a witch.

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Speaker 4: So I kind of wanted to.

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Speaker 1: Turn the so like witch hunts back in the day, so.

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Speaker 4: I did want to turn that on his head.

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Speaker 3: And it's I think it was such a simple thing

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Speaker 3: to do, but hopefully it's quite hopefully quite effective. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: so as soon as I realized, I was like, hang

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Speaker 3: on how come any of the witches need to be women?

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Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, read, how come any of them

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Speaker 3: do need to be? When?

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Speaker 4: So I just made them all all men? It works, It.

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Speaker 2: Works so beautifully, and I was so excited to talk

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Speaker 2: to you about that because I was like, genius, genius, genius.

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Speaker 3: Which just then meant I had to rename the man

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Speaker 3: witch and he became worst witch.

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Speaker 1: So good. I love it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I want to talk about themes because as I

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Speaker 2: was reading it, because I'm all the study I do

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Speaker 2: in LA, my brain was like, oh, Hero's journey, oh

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Speaker 2: friendship story. Oh like and I was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: but then we're kind of like looking.

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Speaker 1: For treasure as well, so.

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Speaker 2: There's this kind of like there's all these different like

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Speaker 2: thematic things going on. What would you say, is this

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Speaker 2: book about bravery? Is this book about friendship? What would

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Speaker 2: you say the themes of this book?

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Speaker 3: I would say it's about friendship, bravery, belonging in love.

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Speaker 3: I think those are the big ones, which surprises people

377
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Speaker 3: when they realize that the book is called a Girl

378
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Speaker 3: called Corpse, you know, and it's a ghost story and

379
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Speaker 3: it does is set against the dark backdrop. But that

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Speaker 3: was very deliberate, because I think that writing a story

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Speaker 3: about really lovely things like love, like belonging, like found family,

382
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Speaker 3: like bravery, all that light shimmers a little bit more

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Speaker 3: brightly set against the dark. When you're writing dark stories

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Speaker 3: for kids, what you're really writing a story about is

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Speaker 3: to show them how to overcome that darkness. And so

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Speaker 3: I was like, here are the monsters, but watch our

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Speaker 3: hero beat them, watch good win over evil. And so

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Speaker 3: every kid's story has to have a hopeful ending, and

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Speaker 3: this one certainly does, think I hope, yeah, but yeah,

390
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Speaker 3: So it's to show kids get to kind of see

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Speaker 3: the hero of the story in real time defeat the baddies.

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Speaker 3: And it's that's what it's really about. And that's why

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Speaker 3: I decided to tell a story about friendship and bravery

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Speaker 3: as a ghost story.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I love I love.

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Speaker 2: What I loved as well as like the character arc

397
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Speaker 2: of Corpse and the flaws that Corps is.

398
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Speaker 1: Forced to face, and it's quite like it's.

399
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Speaker 2: A really it's a big journey personally, like because obviously

400
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Speaker 2: we're reading it through like we're rooting for Corpse from

401
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,640
Speaker 2: day dot right, and so we're finding ourselves in Corpse

402
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Speaker 2: and I think.

403
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,919
Speaker 3: That's absolutely so. She we the story is in first person,

404
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,199
Speaker 3: so you're reading it as if it's Corpse, and you

405
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,119
Speaker 3: are right. She is an imperfect character. And do you

406
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Speaker 3: want to hear how I came up with Corpse?

407
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Speaker 4: I think so.

408
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,399
Speaker 3: I was like going to bed one night and the

409
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,359
Speaker 3: lights were out. I was living in an old house

410
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,119
Speaker 3: that kind of creaked and groaned, and I was in bed,

411
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,320
Speaker 3: going to sleep, And as my eyes adjusted to the dark,

412
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:09,920
Speaker 3: I saw that the man hole in the ceiling was

413
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 3: slightly ajar. Why would it be a jar? None of

414
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,280
Speaker 3: us had opened it anyway. Once I kind of jiggled

415
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 3: it shut with a broom and I waited two hours

416
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 3: for my heart rate to calm down. I was thinking, Okay,

417
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:26,920
Speaker 3: who are what might be up there? And I came

418
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,679
Speaker 3: up immediately with this character of Corpse, a kid ghost

419
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,520
Speaker 3: who was made of wax, had seaweed for hair, abalone

420
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 3: shells for eyes. But what struck me straight away was

421
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,040
Speaker 3: who she was like, who her character was, who she

422
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 3: was at her heart and a she was lonely, and

423
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:43,720
Speaker 3: she was mourning like the life that she'd lost, And

424
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Speaker 3: she didn't know her real name, didn't know her family.

425
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,280
Speaker 3: She was mourning something she'd lost on this side of

426
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Speaker 3: death too, and all that kind of forcing her to

427
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,040
Speaker 3: be alone and independent had made her a little bit

428
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Speaker 3: prickly and selfish, And so I had this really, you know,

429
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Speaker 3: she's very smart, you stubborn, she's determined, but I also

430
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,439
Speaker 3: knew that that came with a set of flaws, and

431
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 3: you're right, right throughout the story she has to face

432
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Speaker 3: those flaws, but she has a heart of gold, and

433
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Speaker 3: we get to see that at the end.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh a thousand. And that's what's so human.

435
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,080
Speaker 2: I know it's a ghost, but that's what's so human

436
00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 2: about Corpse, because you're like, I can be I've definitely

437
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,440
Speaker 2: done things, but I'm selfish or I know that I'm wrong,

438
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,200
Speaker 2: but I pretend i'm not, or you know, little exactly.

439
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:30,360
Speaker 4: She's a ghost, but she's a kid.

440
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,399
Speaker 3: And I was actually having this conversation with my agent

441
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 3: recently because I've just finished up the first draft of

442
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,160
Speaker 3: the sequel and we were just kind of talking about it,

443
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,199
Speaker 3: and my agent said, you know, I always forget that

444
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:41,959
Speaker 3: Corpse is a ghost. I just think of her as

445
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,920
Speaker 3: a kid. And I'm like me too, because that's even

446
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,399
Speaker 3: when you're writing a ghost story. It's your audience. My

447
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 3: audience is kids, and they need to see themselves. So

448
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,560
Speaker 3: what you're really writing is a kid. And it's the

449
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,199
Speaker 3: same in all children's fiction. Even if you have an

450
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 3: animal protagonist and animal hero, it's not really an animal.

451
00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 4: It's a kid. Yeah, you know what I mean.

452
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:00,880
Speaker 3: It's a kid and it's an animal standing in for it.

453
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,159
Speaker 3: And so very much I'm trying to make sure that

454
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:12,080
Speaker 3: she's a human kid character with human kid concerns, kid goals, wishes, dreams,

455
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 3: and kid flaws, because I think that that's how readers

456
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 3: are going to connect with her best.

457
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 1: This is a really weird question.

458
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,360
Speaker 2: If you're writing a kid, do you need to then

459
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,479
Speaker 2: understand a kid but sort of understanding children's psychology and all?

460
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,399
Speaker 2: Like do you ever go down that path or is

461
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 2: it more that you've trained in writing And so you're like,

462
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 2: I don't know, well, I've learned that that way, like.

463
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:32,120
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?

464
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 3: So all of my training was more in writing in

465
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 3: terms of structure, character, you know, plot pacing, that kind

466
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 3: of thing.

467
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:39,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

468
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,000
Speaker 3: Where where the voice, where Corps voice came from, was

469
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 3: just by kind of tapping into my.

470
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 4: Own inner child.

471
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,360
Speaker 1: Oh I love that because I.

472
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 3: Think we all still you know, I write for kids,

473
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 3: but I know lots of adults who have enjoyed this

474
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,679
Speaker 3: book because we all carry in a child with us still,

475
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 3: and so there adults can read this book too for

476
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 3: that inner child, and so for me, in order to

477
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 3: get in the head of Corpse and writers a kid,

478
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 3: it was very much just about letting myself be a

479
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 3: kid again.

480
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, so, therefore, corpses a little bit

481
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 1: of you.

482
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 4: She is a little bit of me. She is a

483
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 4: little bit of me.

484
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 1: Love that.

485
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 2: So can you take me This is going to be

486
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 2: a bit more technical now, but take me through a

487
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 2: little bit of the process, Like is how long does

488
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,159
Speaker 2: and this is one of the most common questions I

489
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 2: get asked as and author, so I know you will

490
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 2: have been asked this before, but like from ware to

491
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 2: go of writing the first draft of the manuscript, how

492
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,239
Speaker 2: long's that process for you?

493
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,679
Speaker 3: I wrote this one really quickly, in six months, so

494
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 3: I was super quick, super quick. And as I said,

495
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 3: I've written three before and each one of them took

496
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:37,679
Speaker 3: two years.

497
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 2: But I just just more stan that is more way

498
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 2: more standard fixed the bill, especially when.

499
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 3: You're doing it alongside at the time full time job.

500
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 3: But with this one, you know, I had, you know,

501
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 3: I had this ghostly visit in the middle of the

502
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 3: night where the manhole popped a jar, and I reached

503
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,880
Speaker 3: over and I grabbed my phone and in the notes

504
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 3: app just wrote a handful of little thoughts so that

505
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 3: I would pick it up again in the morning. I

506
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 3: sat down the next day, I wrote the words A

507
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,119
Speaker 3: girl called Corpse, and I started writing the prologue. And

508
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,439
Speaker 3: that prologue has barely changed since that first draft. And

509
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 3: I think because I had such a clear idea of

510
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 3: who she was and what she wanted, that made me

511
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 3: That made me be able to write this story a

512
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 3: lot more quickly, because really that's the most important thing

513
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,479
Speaker 3: of coming up with a character. It's not actually what

514
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,640
Speaker 3: they look like or what the name is, et cetera,

515
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 3: et cetera. Is what do they want? Because that's the

516
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 3: question your story is going to answer, right do they

517
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,879
Speaker 3: get it or do they not? And how do they

518
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 3: get there? So because I had such a clear idea

519
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 3: of who she was and what she wanted, that allowed

520
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 3: me to then write the story quite quickly, So six

521
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 3: months for that first draft, and then from I mean,

522
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 3: we did around. I did a round of edits with

523
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 3: my agent. I did a round a ed and then

524
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 3: I did three rounds of edits with my publishers.

525
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: That's not that many rounds. I do about fifty.

526
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 2: Really.

527
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 3: I mean when I when I say a round of edits,

528
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 3: that makes it sound very clean, like there are some

529
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 3: some parts will have been rewritten ten fifteen times. So

530
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 3: when I say round of edit, it's such a vain I.

531
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 4: Know what you mean. You mean send, yeah, exactly exactly whatnot?

532
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 3: Like, I think you and I are probably quite similar

533
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 3: in the sense that I am a complete perfectionist and

534
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 3: me oh.

535
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 1: Really yeah, yeah, So I learned by my second book.

536
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, you're going to get like ten

537
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 2: goes at this, Lola, And so I'd always let go

538
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 2: and just flick it over and they'd come back and

539
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 2: they'd be like, Lola, the rhubarb is missing from the

540
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 2: rhubarb musli recipe or you know.

541
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:33,439
Speaker 1: I was, Oh, we.

542
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 4: Should put some of that in.

543
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 1: Yeah.

544
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. Whereas you've always been meticulous, like in our careers,

545
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 2: I've always known that you've you've been so clear and

546
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 2: worked so hard.

547
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and definitely with this book that was the case.

548
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 3: I kind of didn't want to send off anything to

549
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 3: my editors that unless I felt like it was completely perfect, which.

550
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 4: Was pressure that was put on me by nobody but

551
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 4: me totally.

552
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: But people used to say to me, what's it like?

553
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 2: And I was like, look, I've never had a kid,

554
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 2: but I would describe it as a baby because it's

555
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 2: quite a long period until you get to hold it.

556
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 4: And well, that's right.

557
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 3: I So during that was during those rounds of editing,

558
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 3: I mean from actually kind of selling the book to

559
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 3: a publisher until seeing it on shells. I think that

560
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 3: was another eighteen months. Yeah, so that's the part that

561
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 3: takes long time. And you speak to people and they're like,

562
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 3: why do the books take so long to be on shelf?

563
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 3: I think they just think you print it out and

564
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 3: pop it on bookshelves. But there's so much to be done.

565
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 3: I mean, look, we've got incredibly illustrations. Simon Howe who

566
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 3: illustrated it, just did the most gorgeous work. Christy Lundwhite

567
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 3: who did all the design, like the hand lettering. That

568
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 3: takes them a lot of time. Even finding the right

569
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 3: team takes long time. But as you said as well,

570
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 3: lowels like you got an arc and advance read a copy.

571
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 3: How many months ago?

572
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: Now, oh, my goodness, six.

573
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 3: Six months ago. So they went out at the same

574
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 3: time that I sent one to you. My publisher was

575
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 3: sending those two bookstores reviewers to try and generate early bars.

576
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 3: And that's an essential part of kind of releasing a

577
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 3: book that I don't think people think about, but you know,

578
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 3: you want to make sure that when that book hits shells,

579
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 3: booksellers are really excited to get it into reader's hands,

580
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 3: and so all of that happens before I.

581
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: It's a long game, isn't it.

582
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 4: It is?

583
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 2: Can I ask about the illustration? What did you feel

584
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 2: the first time you saw Corpse Illustrated?

585
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 3: I felt, like Simon Howe not the spider had reached

586
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 3: into my brain and plucked it out perfectly, because that

587
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 3: scene on the front of the book, it looks just

588
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 3: like how I had imagined it.

589
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: Oh so what and what about? I saw this on Instagram.

590
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: You ripped open the paper on the weekend and there's

591
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 2: like a coloring whole.

592
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 4: Coloring in, a whole coloring in.

593
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 3: So the cover has been turned into a coloring in

594
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 3: comp for the full page.

595
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 4: That's pretty cool.

596
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 2: I literally was writing in my notes, like I've got

597
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 2: to ask, like I've never had that, Like, that's pretty amazing,

598
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 2: that is.

599
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 3: And I did know it's I did know what was happening,

600
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 3: and it's but it's so so cool and you're right,

601
00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 3: like I never had that kind of fun because those

602
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 3: fun in games and those that that's for kids writing,

603
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, that doesn't happen the coloring

604
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 3: in you can't. We can't do that in Health and

605
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 3: Wellness book. I suppose you actually you know, you just don't.

606
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 3: It doesn't happen as often. But it was very very

607
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,719
Speaker 3: exciting to see that. And you know, the one thing

608
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 3: I wish is that I could see like the actual

609
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 3: colored insion.

610
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: Oh You've got to somehow somehow make that happen, because

611
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 2: when I saw it, I was like, oh my god,

612
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 2: that is like neck level before we go into like

613
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 2: the we're already talking about all the fun stuff.

614
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: But were there any like challenging bits, even.

615
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 2: Like the waiting, like especially when you're pitching it and

616
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 2: trying to see if it's going to get bites.

617
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 4: That you know what I mean? There were.

618
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 3: The most the challenging bits were on the other three

619
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 3: books and the challenging bit was the sequel. I round

620
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 3: writing the second book so much harder. Writing A Girl

621
00:26:53,480 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 3: Called Corpse was surprisingly straightforward, really. I mean, look, there

622
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 3: were times when I tortured myself rewriting, like I think, should.

623
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 4: This be a comma or a semi colon?

624
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 3: Or do I capitalize that letter or not, which would

625
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 3: not matter because my editors are extraordinary and would pick

626
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 3: that up and help me with that. But again, back

627
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 3: to the perfectionist thing, I made things harder than myself

628
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 3: with that kind of thing. Yeah, and and the other thing,

629
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 3: this is gonna sound strange. I don't like writing action scenes.

630
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 3: I've realized really because there's a few actions.

631
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 4: There's a few in there.

632
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 3: There's a few in there, and when I read them,

633
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, this is great.

634
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 4: Is gripping? Who did this?

635
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: Who wrote this?

636
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 3: But I actually don't enjoy writing that. I think the

637
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 3: reason or I don't enjoy writing them as much as

638
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 3: other parts. I should say, so, like the parts I

639
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 3: really love writing are those kind of like tender moments

640
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 3: between the characters where the heart comes through, Like there's

641
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 3: a flashback scene towards the end, and oh my god,

642
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 3: that was That was so much fun. But the action stuff,

643
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 3: I think because you just kind of really writing surface

644
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 3: level almost stay directions because there's no time, because there's

645
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 3: no time for kind of introspection for your character. They

646
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 3: can't sit there and think about the situation in too

647
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 3: much depth because they're running away from a witch.

648
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, so all you.

649
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 3: Do it so like, yes, you know they're fun, they're

650
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 3: really fun to read, but as a writer, they felt

651
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 3: a little bit surface level at times.

652
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 4: Oh thattally necessary.

653
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 2: No, but that makes that makes total total sense, is

654
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 2: it different? So obviously your background, your background as a

655
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 2: published author is more that health space. So when we

656
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: bring out a health book, you know we will kind

657
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 2: of like jump on tally and make a recipe from

658
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 2: the book. You know, we might podsworn as big back

659
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: when we were doing health books. But you know, you

660
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 2: might do a little pod interview about it, and you know,

661
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,959
Speaker 2: you might do a mag interview they run a few recipes,

662
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 2: whereas you've come from speaking to a bunch of kids today. Yes,

663
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 2: So what is it like like the publicity side of this,

664
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 2: Like this area you're in right now.

665
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 3: There is a lot of similar publicity activity be in

666
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 3: terms of magazine interviews, newspaper interviews, radio interviews. But as

667
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 3: you said, instead of recipes, it's coloring in competitions. But

668
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 3: the events side of things is where it gets really

669
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 3: cool because I actually get to meet my young readers.

670
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 3: The workshop that we're touring with this book is to

671
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 3: teach kids how to make their own spooky characters. So

672
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 3: we introduce them to the book, we get a little reading,

673
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 3: but then they jump straight into my secret recipe for

674
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 3: a spooky character and they get to create their own

675
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 3: and wow, they are creative, like the ones I just

676
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 3: came back from.

677
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 4: Now, I was like, that should be a book as

678
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 4: my publisher. Are they listening? Give this kid a contract?

679
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 3: Like?

680
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 4: They're so clever?

681
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 3: Oh?

682
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 4: I love.

683
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: Do you have like spooky secrets to writing a little like?

684
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: What's a little tip?

685
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 3: Well, I have eighth, So it's number one. I mean

686
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 3: it's the number one tip is find out what they want.

687
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 4: I always say that.

688
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 3: But the other big questions are I mean, the other

689
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 3: big questions are what's their name, what's their age?

690
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 4: What do they look like? Do they have a sidekick?

691
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 3: That's the fun one because that's where you get to

692
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 3: give them a sigmon, a spider or something similar do

693
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 3: they have special abilities.

694
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 4: Of naturally exactly right? But that's where again.

695
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 3: It's where it gets because corpse has her magic spells

696
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 3: that she's learned from spying on the witches, and again

697
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 3: that differentiates her from other ghosts.

698
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 4: Where do they live? Things like that.

699
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 3: So just giving kids those eight cues, I think that

700
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 3: was eight, it is eight on the worksheet, getting them

701
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 3: to just put in those really simple answers, and then

702
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 3: they have an option to either write that character a

703
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 3: short story or draw them stop it.

704
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: I want to be one of they. Do you know

705
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: how similar it is to acting?

706
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 2: Like do you know as an actor, they'll usually you'll

707
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: be doing a scene and you could be doing something

708
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 2: from Hita Gabble. You can be doing something like that

709
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 2: is been around four years and what you would call

710
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: a classic. But you still meant to ask your character

711
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: ten questions and it's like who am I?

712
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: What do I want? Where am I going?

713
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 2: What is my obstacle? What matters to me? Am I

714
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 2: going to get what I want? It happens if I

715
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: don't get what I want? And you it's the exact.

716
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 4: It's the exact same thing.

717
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 3: Well, so plotting is obviously so important in story, but

718
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 3: if it doesn't feel organic and natural to the character,

719
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 3: it won't work. So knowing what your character wants, knowing

720
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 3: what stands in their way, and knowing their traits well

721
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 3: enough to be able to put them through the paces

722
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 3: of the story is what will make a good story.

723
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 3: So I plot my books out before I write them

724
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 3: on an Excel spreadsheet, and then I write a one

725
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 3: or two page synopsis. Not one of my books has

726
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 3: ever come close to looking like what that initial plan was,

727
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 3: because it's nice. I like to have a plan to

728
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 3: set out, but ultimately my character still surprise me.

729
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 4: And so you need to know.

730
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: The character first and foremost and then let them make

731
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 3: the decisions that drive the story. And it will often

732
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 3: take it in directions that you don't expect. But I

733
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 3: think that's how you end up with an authentic, feeling story.

734
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, now I'm really going to get you

735
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: out of your comfort zone right now, because I didn't

736
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 2: tell you that i'd ask this. But like, if this

737
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 2: did get auctioned into a like an animation or a movie,

738
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 2: would you, screenwriter?

739
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 4: I don't think I would know.

740
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: You know, some people do some authors flick over.

741
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 3: For some authors it's really important to be in that

742
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 3: writing room and to be different. But I don't have

743
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 3: that skill set. And so my thoughts on the matter are,

744
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 3: I've created the novel, I've created the kind of the

745
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 3: material I would want, set it free, set it free,

746
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 3: know my limits, and get great screenwriters to write write

747
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 3: the script.

748
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 4: That said, I would.

749
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 3: Probably want approval more on more, just so that I

750
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 3: can make sure that there are no contradictions of course

751
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 3: what I've exactly it's my baby. And also there are

752
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 3: other Elston tales, and I want to make sure that

753
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,959
Speaker 3: you know, I want to make sure that we don't

754
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 3: digress digress, So we don't want to kind of, you know,

755
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 3: put anything that would put anything anything in there that

756
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 3: would contradict to the action and the stories and the excitement.

757
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: Oh oh my goodness. Of course.

758
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 2: So you I had no idea until we sat down,

759
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: but you have fully trained as a writer. So look

760
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 2: at you, natschmath nutritionist. And then ask, excuse me just

761
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 2: going to go and study writing off the side.

762
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: So is that part of the like not I.

763
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 2: Wouldn't say non negotiable, but I'm kind of need to,

764
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: like I always ask towards the end, like what's your

765
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 2: advice for a young writer.

766
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: Would you say skill up, like go out and get there.

767
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 3: I would say skill up because writing is a learnable

768
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 3: and a teachable skill. I think that we're fed this

769
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 3: talent myth, and I think it's absolute bull because I

770
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 3: don't believe I'm talented. I don't believe I have any

771
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 3: kind of innate qualities that made me able to write

772
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 3: this book. I think I wrote this book because I

773
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 3: put in my ten thousand hours and I went and

774
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 3: did the study. So, you know, to give you a

775
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 3: bit of context there with the study, I had already

776
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 3: written three manuscripts before I did any kind of study

777
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 3: and creative write. And what happened is I had written

778
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 3: this third manuscript. I thought it was pretty good, so

779
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 3: I took it out to like freelance editors to basically,

780
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 3: you know, to pay for a manuscript assessment. This editor

781
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 3: took a look at it and said, yeah, you need

782
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 3: to essentially nicer than this. But they said, yeah, you

783
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 3: need to go and do some study. And so I

784
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 3: was a little bit crushed, you know, years of working,

785
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 3: you know, at writing in general, thinking I was pretty good,

786
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 3: thinking my imagination was enough only to be told yeah,

787
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 3: you need to actually go and learn. You need to

788
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 3: learn structure, you need to learn character, pacing, all this

789
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 3: kind of stuff you need to create, learn how to

790
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 3: create tension.

791
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 4: In your work.

792
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 3: And so I went and did it, and you know,

793
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 3: it was a bit of pill to swallow, but my god,

794
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 3: I'm so glad I did it. And so anyone who's

795
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 3: thinking about writing, I think sometimes a limiting belief can

796
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 3: be but I'm not talented or I don't have that

797
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 3: in me. I don't think that's true. I think every

798
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 3: single person has an incredible imagination, but what you need

799
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 3: to go and learn is how shape that imagination into story.

800
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: Ah.

801
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 3: One.

802
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 2: It's the same in the acting world, though, like everybody thinks, oh,

803
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 2: we just discovered on the street, it's like, no, no,

804
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 2: that's like potentially decades of training, consistent skilling up exactly.

805
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 3: And it's we just for some reason, when other, you know,

806
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 3: professionals perform at a really high level, we attribute it

807
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 3: to their dedication and their education and you know, all

808
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 3: the hard work they've put in in the hours of

809
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 3: the years.

810
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 4: But for some reason, with artists, we.

811
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 3: Go, oh, they're talented, which could be a nice thing

812
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 3: to hear, but it's more often than not it's absolute

813
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 3: bull like I'm my talent is my tenacity? Like I

814
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 3: kept going at it like, yeah, you know, people to

815
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 3: call this my debut novel, and it is because it's

816
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 3: the first published one. But I wrote three three novels

817
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 3: over six years that didn't go anywhere, and those are

818
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 3: the stories that need to be told because I don't

819
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 3: want any other writer out there who isn't published yet,

820
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 3: you know, suffering a little bit of rejection and thinking,

821
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 3: oh well, I'm just no good because no, you it

822
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 3: just takes time to become a writer, but you can,

823
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 3: it can be learned.

824
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: I it's so I'm so wrapped that you shared that

825
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 2: because I again, I know that I bring back to

826
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 2: acting school. But it's just like I remember they say,

827
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,439
Speaker 2: like talent is like ten percent, and then they're like, well,

828
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 2: nineties actually doing the work, and you, my friend, have

829
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 2: always had that in spades with whatever it is that

830
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 2: you've done. Now, I can't have an author on without saying,

831
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 2: and I know this is such a cliche question, but

832
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 2: writer's block.

833
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: Did you get it?

834
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:40,720
Speaker 3: Writer's block for me sounds like you can't, it just stops.

835
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 3: It sounds like it sounds like a blockage, you know,

836
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 3: And I never experienced that feeling. What It's almost like

837
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,439
Speaker 3: I had too many thoughts and I couldn't order them,

838
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 3: you know, does that make sense? I couldn't order them

839
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 3: in a way that works. So I never sat I've

840
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 3: never sat down and not been able to put words

841
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 3: on the page. But sometimes I can't work out why

842
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 3: they're not doing what I need them to do. And

843
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 3: I think that's probably I think, and that's probably the

844
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 3: closest I've ever had to write his block And it

845
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 3: can be frustrating, and it can last a really, really

846
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 3: long time. You can be rewriting the same scene over

847
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 3: and over and over again, and then something clicks. And

848
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 3: it usually clicks when you stop writing.

849
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: To me, I was going to say, what was what's

850
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: your like?

851
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 3: I take my dog Hagrid for a walk and usually

852
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 3: I come back and I'm like, that's it. It's a

853
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 3: little Eureka moment, and all of a sudden you feel

854
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 3: it click into place. When a scene works, or when

855
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,399
Speaker 3: a plot point works, or something works, you actually feel it.

856
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, now that works, that makes sense, and

857
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 3: it does what I need it to do. At this

858
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 3: point in the story.

859
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 2: It's thanks thanks for sharing that too, because I know

860
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 2: I'm with you, like I've never actually had the block feeling,

861
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 2: but sometimes I will get completely stuck and you don't

862
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 2: actually get the resolution until you actually change channels. I think,

863
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 2: and I think as well, and this is slightly changing

864
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: tune question wise, but I love talking to creatives about this,

865
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 2: and you're really open and cool about this as well.

866
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 2: But like mental health as well is so important for

867
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 2: if you're doing something creatively and you've talked only about

868
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,439
Speaker 2: anxiety before. How sorry, I don't know why I'm holding

869
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 2: onto this chair is just looking at me.

870
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 1: I'm like leaning on a chair right now.

871
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 2: But I like, how important has your mental health being

872
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 2: throughout the journey of being a writer.

873
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 3: It's something I've had to pay a lot of attention to,

874
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 3: and I actually still don't think I've got the balance right,

875
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 3: if I can be completely honest this, Yeah, certainly, writing

876
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 3: a second book put strain on my mental health. I

877
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 3: think that's just mostly because of all the extra expectation

878
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 3: I put on myself.

879
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: That's understandable though, Yeah, yeah it is.

880
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 3: But I think learning to learning to manage it better

881
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,240
Speaker 3: with something that will come and has to come because

882
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 3: I love writing and I love but I, but I

883
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 3: need to be able to make sure that I'm kind

884
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 3: of looking after looking after myself, and I didn't get

885
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 3: that balance right when I was writing the second book.

886
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 3: To be really honest, I kind of wanted to make

887
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,439
Speaker 3: it perfect so much that I honestly I didn't see

888
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 3: my friends much. I didn't carve out time to be unproductive.

889
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 3: I worked through weekends. I and nobody was putting that

890
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 3: pressure on me except myself. But that kind of isolated

891
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 3: me in a way, like it's just me and my laptop.

892
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 3: There are some friends I didn't see for six months,

893
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 3: and these some of my best friends I didn't see

894
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 3: for six months. We all live in the same city.

895
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 3: It was just me going, no, I can't. I have

896
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 3: to work after work, after work, and kind of really

897
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 3: just burning myself out. And so burnout is something that

898
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 3: I think a lot of writers will say that they experience.

899
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,919
Speaker 3: And because it's such a solitary job, there's no one

900
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 3: around to kind of tap you on, hey, mate, I

901
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 3: think you probably need to like go easy on yourself,

902
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 3: like put the laptop away for a couple of days

903
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 3: and just do other stuff. So it is easy to

904
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 3: get yourself in that position.

905
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: Have you ever what I used to do?

906
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 2: So I used to do that same thing early days,

907
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 2: and I put this weird pressure on myself and these

908
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 2: weird time constraints that didn't even exist.

909
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: I was just like, no, well, I've got to get

910
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: in early.

911
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 2: Who knows why I did that, but I learned as

912
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 2: I got down the writing path. I'd often book a

913
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 2: trip and it sounds really weird, and I'd write, there

914
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 2: was a writing trip, so even it was just like

915
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 2: I'd book a little apartment on the Gold Coast or something,

916
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 2: and I'd sit and write for like a week, and

917
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 2: it would just be enough to change the channel or

918
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: find the theme of that book. And because it was

919
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 2: a writing trip, that's all I did, and then I

920
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 2: was able to take time out around it, if that

921
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 2: makes sense.

922
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: But it is hard to do that.

923
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 2: But I always say to people, if I meet a

924
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 2: young writer, I go book a little even if it's

925
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 2: just a road trip to somewhere and airbnb for a

926
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 2: few nights. Just change your surroundings.

927
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: It's so powerful.

928
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 3: I think it is so hard, And you know, I

929
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,439
Speaker 3: think part of the reason it's so hard, especially for

930
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 3: at least especially for me, but I think that there

931
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 3: are probably other artists and creatives out there that would

932
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 3: say something similar. Is pursuing a career in any sort

933
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 3: of art or any sort of creative field is not

934
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 3: a straightforward one.

935
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 4: It's a windy.

936
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 3: Road and can often stretch out a lot longer than

937
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 3: you would like it too, before you see the success

938
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 3: you would like to see. And so I think that

939
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 3: you kind of get hardwired to think that it's not

940
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 3: going to last, or that it's not gonna happen, and

941
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 3: so even then when it does happen, you don't quite

942
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 3: believe it, and so you keep pushing yourself to work harder.

943
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 3: That imposter syndrome pause it, and you push yourself harder

944
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 3: and harder and harder, and it is hard to kind

945
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 3: of draw a line in the hand and go, okay, no,

946
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 3: now I am I am a writer, I am an actor,

947
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 3: I am or whatever whatever it is that you do,

948
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 3: and start treating it like a job and stop sacrificing

949
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 3: everything for it. Yeah, but you need to kind of

950
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 3: get there. If I ever get there, I'll tell you, no.

951
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: It's a hard one.

952
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:46,240
Speaker 4: It is hard.

953
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: It is, really I get it. But you are Oh,

954
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: you are amazing.

955
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 2: For people that haven't got their hands on, well, it's

956
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: brand new, it's is it officially out.

957
00:41:55,600 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 3: To Today is the fifth day publication Today's publication.

958
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 2: Data, so this episode will actually drop on the tenth

959
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 2: of October, so it's officially available. All the links to

960
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 2: get it are going to be in the show notes

961
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 2: for you beautiful listeners. But can you just give people

962
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 2: that are listening a reason to go out and bite, Like,

963
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 2: give us a couple of sentences on why Corpse is

964
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 2: so cool and we should buy this.

965
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 3: Corpse is cool because she's looking for answers to who

966
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 3: she is, which I think is very relatable, and she

967
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 3: finds them. As she finds out, Corpse is a cool

968
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 3: kid because I think, like a lot of us, she

969
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,879
Speaker 3: is looking for answers and a better understanding about who

970
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 3: she is, very relatable, and what she finds is that

971
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 3: the answers she's seeking doesn't necessarily look the way that

972
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 3: she thinks they're going to, and they're actually right there

973
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 3: in front of us. And I think that that's something

974
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 3: we can all relate to.

975
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 2: Oh I, it's such a fun hero's journey to like

976
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 2: be on.

977
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 3: Oh my God and it's like there are witches and

978
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 3: sea monsters and zombie skeletons and so you know, a.

979
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 2: Best friend is Simon the Spider, who so Simon the

980
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 2: Spider is actually basically just a shrunken version of my dog.

981
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 3: Like he if you're if you're listening to this and

982
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 3: you're scared of spiders, fear not, because he is actually

983
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 3: just Hagrid, my retriever as a tiny little spider.

984
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 2: We strike a moment, say, Hagrid, you are the person

985
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 2: that got me so into Harry Potter. You have always

986
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 2: and then my boyfriend's also obsessed, So yeah, thanks to you.

987
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 2: I was already like on the Harry Potter train. But

988
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 2: you my friend for so many years.

989
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 4: Well you're welcome for that. You're welcome.

990
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 2: But you love magic, that's why. And that and this

991
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 2: book that's why I was so excited to read it.

992
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 2: Having known that you love that genre as just a

993
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 2: human being, then to read your take on magic and

994
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 2: spells and is so fun because it's so reale.

995
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 4: And what a cool job. Like I was.

996
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 3: I went to the gym with a friend when I

997
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:55,800
Speaker 3: was writing this, when I was editing this, and he's like,

998
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 3: what are you doing this?

999
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 4: Afternoon. I said, I've got a work.

1000
00:43:58,040 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 3: He's like, yeah, me too, And then he described his

1001
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 3: job was a string of meetings and I was like, yeah,

1002
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go home and write six new magic spells.

1003
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,240
Speaker 4: I was like, what is life? My job's amazing.

1004
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: Did you set time aside right and right today's spell

1005
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: writing day?

1006
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 3: No, it was more of a mood kind of thing.

1007
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 3: I was like, because all my spells are like kind

1008
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 3: of rhyming poems. I was watching a lot of Sabrina,

1009
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 3: The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, the new one where all

1010
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 3: the self good.

1011
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 4: I really enjoyed it.

1012
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and all the magic is like all the spells

1013
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 3: are in rhyming couplets. So I had that in my

1014
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 3: head and so that's the kind of magic I wrote

1015
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 3: for this book.

1016
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: Oh I love it.

1017
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 2: Final question, my friend is, and I know you've touched

1018
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 2: on this a little bit earlier, but just for someone

1019
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 2: out there that's a creative that might have a dream

1020
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 2: that's feeling a little bit maybe self dowdy, do you

1021
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 2: have any advice for someone that has this dream, this

1022
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 2: kind of like desire inside them to like go out

1023
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 2: and chase it.

1024
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 3: Only that that self doubt exists in every creative It

1025
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 3: doesn't matter what level of their career I've discovered, so

1026
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 3: except that it's going to be there, ignore it and

1027
00:44:57,600 --> 00:44:58,720
Speaker 3: keep going after the thing.

1028
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: You love rece You're wonderful.

1029
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 2: That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing.

1030
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: As always, thank you to our.

1031
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 2: Guests and let's continue the conversation on Instagram.

1032
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: I'm at Yamo Lollerberry. This potty my word for podcast

1033
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: is available on all streaming platforms.

1034
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 2: I'd love it if you could subscribe, rate and comment

1035
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 2: and of course spread the love.