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Speaker 1: This is a podcast about failure with me. Lola Berry, author, nutritionist,

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Speaker 1: and yoga teacher, join me as we get to know

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Speaker 1: these guests and learn about how their failures have ultimately

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Speaker 1: shaped their dreams. Welcome to Fearlessly Failing with Lola Berry. Hello,

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Speaker 1: it's Lols here, coming to you live from Talkie. As

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Speaker 1: you probably know, Boss and I decide to isolate down

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Speaker 1: here at the very beginning of isolation, and surprise, surprise,

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Speaker 1: we have fallen totally in love with Talkie and a

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Speaker 1: loving calling this place home for the time being. Today's guest,

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Speaker 1: Jess Hatsas Walker, is so wonderful. She's an entrepreneur. She's

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Speaker 1: probably most known for being one of the creators of

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Speaker 1: frank bod. You know that body scrub, that coffee body

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Speaker 1: scrub that you've probably got in your shower or had

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Speaker 1: in your shower at one stage or another. It's incredible.

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Speaker 1: But on top of that, it's so much more than

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Speaker 1: a body scrub. Now there's skincare, there's makeup. She gave

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Speaker 1: me samples for an epic little cheek highlighter. So much stuff.

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Speaker 1: We did this interview Yonks ago well before Corona, and

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Speaker 1: we did this in her office, and we talk about

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Speaker 1: how it feels kind of like the Goop Lab. Now.

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Speaker 1: Jess shares so much about herself. She used to be

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Speaker 1: a DJ. She opens up about her work ethic. She

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Speaker 1: also shares how she grapples with anxiety and insomnia, and

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Speaker 1: how she has this very open relationship with her team

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Speaker 1: and kind of like we'll say, guys, I haven't slept.

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Speaker 1: So she's got this wonderful vulnerability about her, but in

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Speaker 1: a very strong and grounded, kind and gentle manner. Like

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Speaker 1: I said, she's not your usual entrepreneur. She is wise

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Speaker 1: beyond her years. And side note, she has a huge

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Speaker 1: love for Neil Young, which we both kind of bond over.

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Speaker 1: I really hope we enjoy Jess Hats as Walker.

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Speaker 2: Hellollo, lovely Lola, we have Jess Hats a Swalker.

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Speaker 1: Got it in one, did I? You were just saying

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Speaker 1: for me before we first record, you were like, I

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Speaker 1: feel bad for Dan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I always still introduce myself as Jess Hatseets,

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Speaker 2: and I keep forgetting the other part of my surname.

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Speaker 1: Now the walker bit sounds sick. It's nice.

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Speaker 2: It's just really hard to unlearn your name that you've

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Speaker 2: had for thirty plus years and yeah, okay, no, that's fair,

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden have a new one.

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Speaker 1: That's fair. You're gonna laugh. One of the questions I

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Speaker 1: really want to ask you about is you've got the

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Speaker 1: most beautiful engagement ring I've ever seen.

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Speaker 2: Thank you?

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Speaker 1: Is it a black diamond?

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Speaker 3: It is a black diamond?

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Speaker 1: He did good.

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Speaker 2: I did drop hints to a couple of my girlfriends

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Speaker 2: over the years. I was like, if you ever you

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Speaker 2: know black diamond because I'm not a blin girl, like,

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Speaker 2: I don't have any so beautiful. It's very striking. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I love it. It's me and I feel like I

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Speaker 2: will love it forever. I just couldn't ever imagine myself

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Speaker 2: wearing yeah, like a shiny, yeah looking diamond.

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Speaker 3: I look at them on other people. They're amazing, though, dude.

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Speaker 1: You've lucked out. Yeah, it's so interesting how it's different people. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm totally digressing. Also, welcome this podcast because I am

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Speaker 1: a digressor. We have known each other oh lot, over

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Speaker 1: ten years? Do you reckon? I'd say at least ten years. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to say this. The DJ days.

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Speaker 2: I think I was thinking about this before when I

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Speaker 2: was driving in I'm like, did we meet through Grant originally?

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Speaker 1: Probably? I think.

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Speaker 2: So that's Grant smiling for anyone who's listening, who we

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Speaker 2: both would have known from our days as DJs pre

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Speaker 2: Life Makeover.

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Speaker 1: Big Time. Okay, so well let's get let's quickly. You're

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Speaker 1: most known for will and Blake, so that's branding creative.

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Speaker 1: Yeah do you want to say that better than.

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Speaker 3: More eloquently than good way to say it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're a branding agency, so we bill brands and

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Speaker 2: then we developed their campaigns with the Willow and Blake like, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Nurse, it's got this like this is the wrong word,

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Speaker 1: but like cheeky is there's like it's got a very

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Speaker 1: personal tone.

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Speaker 2: I think our philosophy has always been that if we're

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Speaker 2: not excited by it, other people aren't going to be

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Speaker 2: excited by it. Got it, And that there is nothing

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Speaker 2: more scary than an old idea, so always trying to

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Speaker 2: find something new.

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Speaker 1: I love that.

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, So that's one thing, Frank Body we have

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Speaker 1: to say is like, in all my research of you

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Speaker 1: like that, you never get forward ever of that startup

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Speaker 1: story of how it kind of like developed. So I'm

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Speaker 1: pumped to touch on that as well. But then also,

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Speaker 1: have you just opened something with husby?

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Speaker 3: I did my husband's personal trainer.

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Speaker 2: That's how we actually met, and we've opened a studio

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Speaker 2: called Frame and Cremorn.

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Speaker 1: I got to check this out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you should come down for a session.

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Speaker 1: Because I saw it's like high intensity but resistance.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, find the combination of both.

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Speaker 2: It was really developed, like it's still an awesome workout,

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Speaker 2: but it was developed for people like me who sit

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Speaker 2: at a desk all day.

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Speaker 1: We keep getting all these.

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Speaker 3: Very similar injury patternes.

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Speaker 2: Totally and so really focused on trying to build strength

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Speaker 2: in particular areas of the body to combat the fact

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Speaker 2: that we sit at a desk for eight ten hours

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Speaker 2: a day while still doing things like losing weight.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally improving aerobic capacity.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love it too. And he's taught me so much.

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Speaker 3: He's really good at what he does.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you guys are very roo cut. I did

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Speaker 1: the old inst store.

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Speaker 2: I saw you liking way back, like, oh, a lot

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Speaker 2: of dip in stock mode.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so much fun. We were saying as we

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Speaker 1: were walking up the stairs. Podcasting is amazing because you

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Speaker 1: have this, you're literally your job is to stalk someone, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and really research the bejeezus out of them. And that's

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Speaker 1: why I'm so excited. And not just because I think

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Speaker 1: Frank Body is frigging incredible and I'm like a total

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Speaker 1: user and I love it and it's always in my shower,

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Speaker 1: but also I'm really excited about you, like hearing about

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Speaker 1: you because Frank Body is one of five people. You're

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Speaker 1: one of five, one of four.

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Speaker 2: We were five originally and now we're four founders, four

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Speaker 2: still remaining founders.

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Speaker 1: Got you, but I'm like, I want to know about

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Speaker 1: Jess as well. That's nice and we're not well know,

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Speaker 1: like and I'm don't get me wrong, I'm palmed here

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Speaker 1: about the Frank Body story because I think anybody that

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Speaker 1: is chasing a dream would be inspired by that story

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Speaker 1: or anybody's just got that itch. Yeah, like I've got

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Speaker 1: this idea.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 1: I'm scared of failing, and so I think even when

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Speaker 1: I've read I was reading these, you know, these interviews

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Speaker 1: with you, and and you know, like there's never a

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Speaker 1: right time being like quite and I'm just like my

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Speaker 1: mind is like yes, you know, and sometimes that's all

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Speaker 1: you need to have, that little spark kind of face

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Speaker 1: the fear. Yeah, but I want to start back further.

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Speaker 1: And I read this and further than dejaying we'll get.

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Speaker 3: There, and too, I was in my nappy. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, I read a quote where you said you went

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Speaker 1: to your careers counselor and you were like, I want

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Speaker 1: to be a writer, and they're like, this isn't a

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Speaker 1: good idea for you.

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Speaker 3: What I know, it's so weird that you say that.

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Speaker 3: I was thinking about it.

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Speaker 2: When I went for a walk the other morning, Like

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Speaker 2: every now and then, it would just come up as

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Speaker 2: this frustration point.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, oh God, we need.

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Speaker 2: To make sure that we have careers counselors who are

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Speaker 2: giving advice to people in school, actually spending time in

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Speaker 2: the real world and outside of the school understanding how

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Speaker 2: industry changes. And it was so frustrating to me, like

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Speaker 2: there wasn't even a discussion about other things that I

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Speaker 2: could do with writing other than author being an author

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Speaker 2: or being a journalist. And I just knew that I

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Speaker 2: loved writing, but they really didn't offer me any guidance.

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Speaker 1: So what did they say? You walked in Do you

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Speaker 1: remember when you walked into that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I was in yar ten and we

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Speaker 2: would you know, you guys for all that stuff, trying

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Speaker 2: to decide what you're going to do.

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Speaker 1: Super impressionable.

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Speaker 3: You're so impressionable.

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Speaker 2: I'm also fourteen or fifteen years old, and you're trying

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Speaker 2: to pick your VCE subjects so that you can choose

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Speaker 2: a unied degree. And it was really just flattening the conversation.

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Speaker 2: It was like, there are no job prospects here. It's

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Speaker 2: so competitive. I really wouldn't look into that at all.

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Speaker 2: And I thought, but this is a skill of mine.

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Speaker 2: I enjoy doing this. Surely there is more of a

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Speaker 2: discussion we could have. And it really threw me. I

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Speaker 2: chose subjects that were completely wrong for me. I somehow

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Speaker 2: got encouraged into a full science based VCE so that

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Speaker 2: I could have my options open to go study other things.

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Speaker 2: And I enjoyed it, but it wasn't my strength or

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Speaker 2: my passion. And I often wonder a maybe I wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have got to where I am had I not gone

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Speaker 2: on that whole weird journey, or would I have got

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Speaker 2: there a bit quicker or a little bit easier without

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Speaker 2: all of that weird flip flopping around in UNI.

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Speaker 1: Not to get into the like psychology of it all.

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Speaker 1: But often do you find also when you're a young

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Speaker 1: impressional person and you're still a young, very young person,

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Speaker 1: like people that have got more authority or a high

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Speaker 1: status like when I say high status like a teacher

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Speaker 1: or you know, someone that's really successful, often they'll put

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Speaker 1: maybe subconsciously, but their own negative stuff onto you, and you, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: at fifteen years old, would have just soaked that up

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Speaker 1: and been like I remember at school, I was really

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Speaker 1: passionate about acting and drama and I did I wasn't

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Speaker 1: smart at academic like with literacy, and so I did

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Speaker 1: my first written sack. Do you remember they were sacked?

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Speaker 3: God, yeah, we're showing our age.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty sure. I'm a little bit older, but we're

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Speaker 1: the same age, are with the exact same wage.

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Speaker 3: I turned thirty foury.

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Speaker 1: Much Yes, it made me feel so much better. I

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Speaker 1: don't like Yeah, And I did really bad on my

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Speaker 1: first writ and I got really nervous. I would have

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Speaker 1: been anxious and I got a d right, so really bad.

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Speaker 1: And I remember I resat because I was I was

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Speaker 1: at a private girls school, and I think they you

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Speaker 1: kind of they want your marks to be I don't

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Speaker 1: know what the rules are. Anyway, I resat and I

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Speaker 1: remember saying in my drama teacher, I want to get

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Speaker 1: above was above forty, like a good enter for each

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Speaker 1: you want to get forty out of fifty.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't the end, but it was.

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Speaker 1: The squadiest subject. I don't know it was your marklets

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Speaker 1: of it was a number out of fifty and I

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Speaker 1: was and above forty. I remember, it's really good good

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I really want to get above

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Speaker 1: forty for drama because yeah, favorite subject. I love it.

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Speaker 1: This is what I meant to do. And she was like,

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Speaker 1: you want and I remember that same flattening feeling you just.

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Speaker 3: Woke about shoot your dreams down right.

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Speaker 1: And you're this little kid and just being like and

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Speaker 1: I remember I was like in that time, in that moment,

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Speaker 1: I was like, f you and I got forty three.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the year. She came up and

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Speaker 1: hugged me, and I remember thinking, you had nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with it.

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Speaker 3: You didn't believe in me when it mattered.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's interesting. That's why I was so when

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Speaker 1: I read that about you. I was so excited to

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Speaker 1: hear it because I think there would be every single

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Speaker 1: person that has chased a dream would have hit at

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Speaker 1: roadblock that was personal. And I think that the personal

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Speaker 1: roadblocks like that a teacher maybe going nah non and

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Speaker 1: she's just projecting her own stuff like onto you, or

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Speaker 1: like maybe a family member or you shouldn't go down

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Speaker 1: that path like and they're doing it out of full

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Speaker 1: protection mode. I think that that can be super way

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Speaker 1: more damaging than like, you know, your first round of

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Speaker 1: something not selling out or not doing well, don't you reckon?

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Speaker 3: I could not agree more.

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Speaker 2: And the thing that bothers me the most is it's

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Speaker 2: something that's stuck with me clearly nearly twenty years later.

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Speaker 2: And I bet that this person didn't even really think

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 3: Again because they didn't. She didn't have.

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Speaker 2: Bad intentions, No, it's just her reaction in the moment.

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Speaker 2: What I've learned is when you're in any position of

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Speaker 2: authority or people are coming to you for advice, the

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Speaker 2: last thing you should do is give them advice.

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Speaker 3: And it's all about asking questions.

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Speaker 1: Play totally.

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Speaker 2: If I meet someone and they're like, oh, nah, don't

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Speaker 2: do that. In the first thirty seconds of us having

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Speaker 2: a conversation, I look at them and I go you

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Speaker 2: are someone who's, oh, I just can't listen because you

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Speaker 2: haven't bothered to learn anything before.

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Speaker 3: You give me your opinion on this.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what Oprah said once when she came

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Speaker 1: out here into it a few years ago, She said that,

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Speaker 1: out of everyone I've ever interviewed in my life, she

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Speaker 1: goes people that are in jail, Beyonce, massive pop stars,

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Speaker 1: Da Da Da, which has politicians, She goes, the one

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Speaker 1: thing all human beings have in common is they want

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Speaker 1: to be heard, and often people all they need is

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Speaker 1: that space to be heard, and then next minute they're

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Speaker 1: chasing that dream.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: So okay, So you still went to union? Got a

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Speaker 1: double degree? Am I?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: I did? Yeah, just a little low achiever over here.

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Speaker 2: But it was hard work and I didn't know what

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Speaker 2: I was going to do. Fail tad subjects excelled at

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Speaker 2: others changed my majors.

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Speaker 3: Like I was all over the shop and it wasn't

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Speaker 3: it great to hear?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I like telling people now. I was ashamed of it

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Speaker 3: though at first, and I was always like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: U he was good?

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Speaker 1: Did that?

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Speaker 2: I hated it at first and I was so out

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Speaker 2: of my depths and at school with kids or adults,

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Speaker 2: however you want to look at it. That was so

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Speaker 2: different from me and had had such a different educational

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Speaker 2: experience going to you know, some of the best private

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Speaker 2: schools in the country, and that's not what I did.

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Speaker 2: I just went to like the girls school around the

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Speaker 2: corner from the house. It was okay, nothing amazing.

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Speaker 3: So we was sitting.

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Speaker 2: At different levels from the moment that we started, and

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Speaker 2: I didn't feel like I've been prepared for that totally.

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Speaker 1: I think UNI is not of everyone. That style, that

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Speaker 1: style of training your brain is not the right fit

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Speaker 1: for every human being. Yeah, so cool to hear that.

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 3: I think it's important to talk about.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I got thirty one percent mate or my first

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Speaker 1: human biology subject. I was like, but it's also understanding

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Speaker 1: the way your brain works. I was learning wrote, so

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Speaker 1: I just write this stuff out over and over, and

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Speaker 1: I realized I was visual as soon as I started

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Speaker 1: making flip cards and drawing nutrients like what I was learning.

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Speaker 1: I remember I was learning about like Nison, which is

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Speaker 1: B two and so what I drew a runner wearing

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Speaker 1: Nike's coming second weird, strange and that's how you remember

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Speaker 1: like visual stuff was like, it's just learning. It's understanding

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Speaker 1: your brain and I'm digressed. Now this is going to

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Speaker 1: feel like a weird jump, but I feel like you

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Speaker 1: would have an auditory way of responding to things, to

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Speaker 1: the point that when I researched you, I found out

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Speaker 1: you love Neil Young. So I listened to only Neil

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Speaker 1: Young while I researched What a nerd. I told my

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Speaker 1: boyfriend Matt and he was like, that's cute but also

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Speaker 1: very weird. And I'm like, it's.

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Speaker 2: Very like I'm trying to get in her head's favorite.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love him.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite song?

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Speaker 2: It's very hard to say a favorite song. We danced

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Speaker 2: to Harvest Moon at our wedding.

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Speaker 3: That was one of my favorite so beautiful.

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Speaker 2: I have other lyrics do on my fortune, and I

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Speaker 2: know I just connected with there's a lot of soul

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Speaker 2: on his.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I am an auditory learner, but to conmit things to memory,

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Speaker 2: I have to write them down my hand. Also, so

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Speaker 2: I've learned typing notes in the computer is a really

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Speaker 2: bad way for me to remember stuff.

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Speaker 3: So I here, Yeah, in this case, I'm going.

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Speaker 1: To take some notes while we talk. He's my book.

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Speaker 1: I'm the same as you. I have to write down.

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Speaker 1: I have an old school diary too, like I have

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Speaker 1: to physically write it even though it's in ik. Yep,

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Speaker 1: that's so cool. Okay, So when did DJing come into play? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I left my masters and took a job

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Speaker 2: at three sixty Agency with Grant and Pete.

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Speaker 1: Pete's amazing by the way, shout out to Pete so far.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they were very inspirational men in my life.

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Speaker 1: And Grant Smiley has gone on to like kill the

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Speaker 1: la C.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they taught me a lot and they were very nurturing.

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Speaker 2: It was a really good training ground and they let

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Speaker 2: me do so many different things. I did really boring

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Speaker 2: work there as part of my logistics stuff.

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Speaker 1: They're also both creative humans, would you say, And so

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Speaker 1: being around two brains that are both business savvy and creative,

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Speaker 1: that's a pretty epic training ground for you now seeing

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Speaker 1: what you've done.

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Speaker 2: Very much so, because you don't often find that duel

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Speaker 2: set of skills and a lot of people. So that

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Speaker 2: was a great training ground. And after about eighteen months

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Speaker 2: two years, oh, actually no, it might have been less.

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Speaker 2: It was about six months in when I started DJing

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Speaker 2: because there was a little shortage of female DJs, and

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Speaker 2: they kept having clients come in and wanting to book,

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Speaker 2: and I was around them all the time. I'd always

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Speaker 2: loved music. That was how I ended up working there,

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Speaker 2: and I thought, I'm just gonna have a bit of

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Speaker 2: a play and see if I can do this.

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Speaker 1: You know, my boyfriend Matt, he said it was when

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Speaker 1: you DJ'ed, it was just you and mal Hall. Yeah,

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00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,320
Speaker 1: well other mate. It was like just two girl DJs,

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Speaker 1: pretty much like killing the scene were it.

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Speaker 3: Was so strange.

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Speaker 2: I started originally playing solo, and then I thought this

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Speaker 2: could be really fun to do as a duo totally,

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Speaker 2: especially with all the travel involved. Yeah, lonely and yeah

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Speaker 2: in kind of weird places by yourself. At three time,

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Speaker 2: I called Mail, she'd never dj before, and I'm like,

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Speaker 2: can I teach you how to dj?

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Speaker 3: And maybe we'll do this together.

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Speaker 2: So I taught Mail and then she obviously continued to

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Speaker 2: refine it.

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Speaker 3: Doing so lashing it. Yeah, it's really cool. Bare we

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Speaker 3: did that.

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Speaker 2: We were so so lucky. We traveled all over the

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Speaker 2: country and through a lot of Southeast Asia playing and

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Speaker 2: it was amazing. And now one of my founders in

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Speaker 2: Frank Body was also our booking agent. That was how

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Speaker 2: we met three sixty so he became our agent now

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Speaker 2: tour manager, and life took this kind of weird, unexpected

383
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Speaker 2: turn for a couple of years.

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Speaker 1: Not to get to esoteric and hippy on you here.

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00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,160
Speaker 1: Does it make you trust a bit in the universe? Oh? Yeah,

386
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Speaker 1: because it's like it's and also like I think you're

387
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Speaker 1: really smart at reading people, just from the way you

388
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Speaker 1: what you've said so far, and just from your energy

389
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,439
Speaker 1: you can feel when you meet a dingo or a

390
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Speaker 1: really awesome human, right, But it's also that's like a

391
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 1: universal gift. That's a gift to be able to know that.

392
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,200
Speaker 1: And then like in the way you're saying, like and

393
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Speaker 1: then I met this person through this and I followed.

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Speaker 1: You've always you know, we call it following dama. I

395
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,639
Speaker 1: talk about heaps on here, but like you've always kind

396
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,199
Speaker 1: of followed this feeling or my meditation teacher called at

397
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 1: the charm, and it hasn't really led you astray.

398
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,640
Speaker 2: No, I've been pretty fortunate. I think my intuition skills

399
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,439
Speaker 2: or I'm in tune with my gut and I listened

400
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,600
Speaker 2: to it. But there's definitely been times where I've ignored

401
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,119
Speaker 2: it and then reflected on it and gone, why you

402
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,000
Speaker 2: knew that that was a bad idea? Every five or

403
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 2: in your being was telling you not.

404
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,199
Speaker 1: But that's growing up, like in your twenties. Ignore that.

405
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,440
Speaker 3: So sometimes I'm like, how am I alive?

406
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,400
Speaker 1: Can I ask a really weird question? At three sixty?

407
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Speaker 1: So you were in a change in charge of publicity.

408
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,680
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I was head of PR, but I did

409
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 2: heaps of really strange jobs like logistics, social media, copyrighting.

410
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:40,960
Speaker 3: I had never done any PR.

411
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 2: I originally started working there because I was writing a

412
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,840
Speaker 2: music blog and they needed a copywriter to write all

413
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 2: the bios about the artists, and the kind of just

414
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:49,679
Speaker 2: morphed into this.

415
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,479
Speaker 1: Did anyone epic?

416
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 2: And you were like, oh, yeah, they had amazing artists

417
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:57,080
Speaker 2: on their books.

418
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Speaker 1: Can that have Ruby Road?

419
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,880
Speaker 2: Yes? So Ruby would just like walk into the full time.

420
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,760
Speaker 2: I'm like, wow, that's kind of interesting. I remember having

421
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 2: to deliver chicken soup to her house one time when

422
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:06,399
Speaker 2: she was sick.

423
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,120
Speaker 1: It was the first time I met her.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, hello, is you open the door like wrapped

425
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,440
Speaker 2: in a blanket. I'm like, I'm Jess, and here's some soup.

426
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great.

427
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 2: So when interns look at me and they're like, can

428
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:19,879
Speaker 2: I do the strategy, I'm.

429
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,600
Speaker 3: Like, no, you can deliver the soup. That's what I did.

430
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,919
Speaker 1: How amazing. Yeah, that's cool to even look back on

431
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:28,760
Speaker 1: that kind of And I feel like the time that

432
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,400
Speaker 1: three sixty year was massive was like that time when

433
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 1: music and you know, like it.

434
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 2: Was like the precipice of the dance world really changing

435
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,719
Speaker 2: and like the meeting of the Indian dance world, and

436
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,639
Speaker 2: that was the type of music we played, Like we

437
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:49,399
Speaker 2: got to support Flume and Disclosure like musical icons.

438
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Speaker 3: So that was really amazing.

439
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 2: But then I started to really hate the term female

440
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,399
Speaker 2: DJ and I really hated that I had this like

441
00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:58,600
Speaker 2: handicap attached.

442
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 3: To it, and I'm like, no, just us to DJ.

443
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, the giant doesn't matter. Yeah, but even like even

444
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 1: in I've read articles where it's like that you're referred

445
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 1: to a lot as a female entrepreneur. At the time

446
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 1: female this it's pretty.

447
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,040
Speaker 2: It was supposed to help us, right, That's why that

448
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 2: movement started. Yet now I mostly find it frustrating because

449
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 2: noe of the guys that I work with get called

450
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,199
Speaker 2: a boy or a male entrepreneur or a boy bus

451
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 2: or this shit. I'm like, just why can't are we not?

452
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 2: It's twenty twenty. How he's still doing this?

453
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 1: It's crazy? And I did an acting course last week

454
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,679
Speaker 1: with an amazing actor called Cody Firm. He's in that

455
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 1: assassination of Gianni Vassaci on Netflix. Watch Yeah, okay, And

456
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 1: he was like, it's still so hard for women. Yeah,

457
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 1: He's like, you can get cast up to forty as like,

458
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 1: you know, a young woman is like the second you

459
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 1: hit forty, your cast is a mile yeah.

460
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:54,640
Speaker 3: Or a grandma forty five.

461
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 1: I don't even know about Yeah, I don't even know

462
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 1: about you. But I'm thirty four on the amount of

463
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 1: people that write me on Instagram when are you having

464
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,360
Speaker 1: a baby? And I'm like, when the halla's age isn't

465
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: become a thing?

466
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 2: Like what right do people have to ask you that

467
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 2: no matter what age you are, correct your body, it's

468
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:09,639
Speaker 2: your private.

469
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 3: What if you don't want to have kids? What if

470
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 3: you can't?

471
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 1: But this is the other thing, if I couldn't you

472
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like that could be so triggering

473
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 1: and so hurtful. You've got nut and people don't I

474
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: don't like for people listening, I don't intend not having

475
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 1: kids at the moment in my life. And but that's

476
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 1: also my choice. Why does it have to be of it?

477
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 1: And it's this weird, like weird, there's this weird thing

478
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 1: that's done to women. I've been watching the Goop Lab

479
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 1: series on me. I want to watch that. Watch it?

480
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 1: Yeah you would. This feels a bit goop labby here

481
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 1: very much? Does it?

482
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 2: Yes?

483
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 3: There that smells like avagiane.

484
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,360
Speaker 1: It's perfect. Get one of them on my way out. Yeah,

485
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 1: but they Gwyneth was talking and she said, the second

486
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 1: I turned forty, all the pressures of being a women,

487
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 1: a woman in my reproductive years left me, right, she said,

488
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,400
Speaker 1: But when you're in that window of being in your

489
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:58,919
Speaker 1: thirty she's like, it's weird.

490
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, every one is looking at you basically just trying

491
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 2: to work out when when it's going to happen, Like

492
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 2: you're a clock.

493
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 1: I'm not a clock. And then like the fact that

494
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 1: like back to the like female entrepreneur, and everything I

495
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 1: look up about you is like young woman doing this

496
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 1: this and this four thirty under thirty one woman. It's like, yeah,

497
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 1: and I get that there's like this beautiful side celebrating women,

498
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 1: but it's like, why is it a handicap?

499
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:25,360
Speaker 3: Yeah?

500
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: Why is it? You know?

501
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 3: And I don't.

502
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 2: I don't know if anyone who's listened to me talked before,

503
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 2: but it had. It is a passion point of mind.

504
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 2: I don't like that we have to turn women in

505
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 2: business or doing whatever it is that they love into

506
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 2: this like super girly celebration of things and it's like

507
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 2: flowers and we call each other bitches and I'm like,

508
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 2: oh no, like I'm just I kind of still want

509
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 2: to be professional because that's what I do in.

510
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 3: The workplace, Like it's not fun.

511
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 2: But I don't know it became either like everything's pink

512
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 2: and floral over here, you like all these cutes words

513
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 2: to describe each other, or if you're over here, it's

514
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 2: like you're a hard us. I'm like, well, no, I'm

515
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 2: just so professional coming to do my job totally.

516
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 3: I do it well equal yeah, big time.

517
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,719
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you're passionate about that, because I

518
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: believe you're in a position and you're already doing it.

519
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 1: We can change that tone.

520
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 2: I try to, and I don't mean it in a

521
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 2: way to shoot down other women that are whose intentions

522
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 2: are amazing.

523
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 3: By doing that sort of stuff, I know there's a

524
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 3: place for get what they're trying to achieve.

525
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 2: I just think we could probably progress the conversation onto

526
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 2: something a little bit more sophisticated.

527
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 1: Totally now one hundred a million percent, And that's what

528
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: I actually think. What I love about frank Body is

529
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 1: it's to me, it's not necessarily super feminine. It's more

530
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 1: like it's almost well, the branding it's frank. Yeah, you

531
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's cheeky, it's frank. It's like, honest,

532
00:23:54,800 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 1: it's straight up, it's raw ingredients. It's very nobs And

533
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 1: that's what that's what I personally as a consumer resonate with. Yep,

534
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, I can trust this. It's no bullshit. It

535
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: celebrates me for who I am. That's the feeling I

536
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: get when I walk into like a Mecca, or if

537
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 1: I look at something or I see the branding online, Like,

538
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 1: that's the feeling.

539
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 2: I like that it gives you that feeling because that's

540
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 2: exactly what we want. Like, it's still feminine and I

541
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 2: am still so in tune with the feminine parts of

542
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 2: my personality and my life and my body, but it

543
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 2: doesn't mean I'm out of tune with the other parts

544
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 2: that you'd think of as more inherently masculine. And I'm like,

545
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 2: I can be fun and pink but still decisive and assertive,

546
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: and like those two things I think really come together

547
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: in the Frank Body brand.

548
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 1: And it's almost like, if you can look at any

549
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: school of healing modality, it's not to bring the nutrition

550
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: into it. But like Yin and Yang, you can't be

551
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: too yin. You've got to be feminine. You're going to

552
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 1: be like wafer and like in Indie miss and you

553
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 1: can't be a bit too varta, which is like soft

554
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 1: and floaty. You need the pitter, that fire, you need,

555
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: the grounding, you need, the earth you need without one like,

556
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: I don't believe there would ever be. I mean, you

557
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: can go beyond success and go to happiness. I don't

558
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: think one way or the other you could be. I

559
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: don't know. Some people like, well, you know I am

560
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: more gentle than I am, and that's beautiful.

561
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there is the right that's their balance though.

562
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like that you're celebrating both. And you're celebrating

563
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: like often people say to me in business, oh, you

564
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 1: know you've got bulldog in you, and I'm like, hell, yeah,

565
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: I do. Yeah, I like that about myself and it

566
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 1: doesn't mean I'm a bad person exactly.

567
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 2: And I think particularly as a woman growing up, maybe

568
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: especially in the era that we grew up in. I

569
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 2: don't know what things you were taught, but even the

570
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: sublomen or messaging when you're at school, it's like, oh,

571
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 2: don't get in trouble, or like don't cause a fuss,

572
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 2: like don't be too loud. So you have twenty years

573
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 2: of people telling you all this shit, and then you

574
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 2: get into the real world and you're like, well, I

575
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 2: actually need to be heard and say if things, you know,

576
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 2: if I don't agree with things, or if something makes

577
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: me feel uncomfortable. But I've been taught how to not

578
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 2: do all of that totally, so I found it's not

579
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 2: until I've reached my thirties, so I actually am starting

580
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 2: to understand who I am as a person.

581
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: And loving that person. Per Yeah, when you were saying

582
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 1: that about when we were at school, do you remember

583
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: like the big brands were like Impulse and Nostrallis and

584
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: these really like Barbie Dolly kind of branding with butterflies

585
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: on everything and super feminine and that real floral, like

586
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: really girly. Like that's what we were absorbing with our.

587
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: Senses, even the toys that we played with. Oh man,

588
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 2: do you see this morning Barbie released or matel released

589
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 2: a Barbie with I'm going to pronounce this really badly vile,

590
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 2: I go.

591
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 3: The really good yeah good, Yeah, that's amazing.

592
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 2: Like this generation of girls is going to hopefully grow

593
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 2: up with a really different understanding of their body and

594
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 2: themselves compared to what we did.

595
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: I think if if anyone's listening to this in Under thirty,

596
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 1: start loving yourself for who you are and stop caring

597
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 1: about validation from outside at all. And that's again where

598
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: I think the messaging of Frank's body is very on

599
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 1: point with that.

600
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's about loving yourself.

601
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: It's a really interesting time to be in beauty because

602
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 2: we would have all seen a very necessary shift to

603
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: talking about body positivity and skin positivity. You can still

604
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 2: do that, though, and want to use products that maybe

605
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 2: help your pimples fade away.

606
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 3: We don't have to. I feel like a lot of

607
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 3: people are stuck and like, oh god, am I like

608
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 3: not supposed to If I've got some stretch marks, maybe

609
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 3: not want them. They're like, you're.

610
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: Allowed to do whatever the fuck you want with your

611
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 2: own body, use whatever products, do whatever you want them

612
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 2: to do. It's just that we shouldn't pass judgment about

613
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 2: anybody else.

614
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: What works one, but you've got to watch the goog lab, mate, Yeah,

615
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 1: what works for one, what works one busus doesn't work

616
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: for another. There were three women and they all got

617
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: their biological age tested. It was Gwyneth and to Editor

618
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: and Cheap and then somebody else, and then they all

619
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: change their diet of twenty one days and then they

620
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: all did one skin treatment that was meant to make

621
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 1: you feel better about your age and whatnot. One did

622
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: have you heard of the acupuncture with the like cosmetic acupuncture. Yeah,

623
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: it's one hundred little needles in her face. Another one

624
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: Gwyneth did the P what's it call where they put

625
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: the platelets back on PRP vampire one. And then this

626
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: other chick did this full invasive thing when they thread

627
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: things under your cheek and pull it and I was like,

628
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: I was watching with my boyfriend. I was like, yeah,

629
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: they call it the joker. Yeah yeah, because it like

630
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 1: all your face. Yeah, And that was like, well, this

631
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 1: is not natural it's just changing. But it was so

632
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: beautiful to celebrate these three women doing what they were

633
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: doing wanted to do for themselves and not past judgment

634
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: on it. It was so cool.

635
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: I think that's the lesson that we need to always

636
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 2: be relearning to just celebrate each other and stop judging

637
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 2: each other. I don't have to make energy to care

638
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 2: like it takes away from other cool sheep doing. Really,

639
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: that's what they want to do. More power to them.

640
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: Tell what I want to do. So I've got to

641
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: hear it. I got to hear the Frank Bod story.

642
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: I keep saying Frank Bod because it install makes me

643
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: say Frank Bod. But Frank Body, I want to just

644
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: give me in a nut, like it's the coolest little story.

645
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: Like I know, I've started stuff and thrown five grand

646
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: into it and it hasn't worked at all. And like

647
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm alone in that, and even we have,

648
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: we've done other things that didn't go anywhere. But see

649
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: how refreshing is it to hear that.

650
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, people don't talk about it enough.

651
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, yeah, no, but I love the story behind,

652
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: just like you know, Cafe Hick's coming and asking for

653
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: the coffee, Yeah, for it.

654
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 3: It's kind of a multi part story.

655
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 2: So after I left three sixty, we started our branding agency,

656
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,959
Speaker 2: call Below and Blake, and it was really specifically focused

657
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 2: on copywriting at the time because that was each of

658
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 2: our individual skill sets. And we had lots of clients

659
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 2: come to USK who knew that we would create bold

660
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 2: and risky ideas, but then when they saw them, they

661
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 2: got a bit nervous and yeah, things just get getting

662
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 2: watered down. It didn't quite have the impact that we

663
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: know ahead of your time with that maybe a little bit.

664
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, just with people going on and that's too risk gay.

665
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: It's like now people are jump.

666
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: Everyone's trying to do the same thing. It's almost better

667
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: to be a bit more bland now, I think, as

668
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: you'll stand out more. So it was about three years

669
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 2: in and we thought, okay, what if we had a

670
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 2: project that we controlled from beginning to end. And at

671
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 2: the same time we were talking with our friends Steve

672
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: and Alex about trying to create a product together, but

673
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 2: we didn't know what it was going to be. And

674
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: we just started to see, all right, we want to

675
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 2: create a brand that's more risky and something that we

676
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 2: really can get behind and believe in. Instagram was starting

677
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 2: to emerge, and we thought that's a really interesting platform

678
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: to market a product on. You've got, you know, predominantly

679
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 2: a lot of women on there right in that sort

680
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 2: of twenty to thirty year old age bracket, and there

681
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 2: was this really bug in conversation about health and wellness,

682
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 2: and we could see the start of the trend towards

683
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: using more natural products, which we had already started doing

684
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: as well. I think that was how we came back

685
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 2: into each other's lives. So for around Health Food Day.

686
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: I worked there, used to say, I remember one da

687
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: I've gone through a bit of heartbreak and you knew

688
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: my ex. And I was like, oh my god. I

689
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: fully like emotionally dumped me in the aisles. I was like,

690
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: you needed that chat. We've all done it so bad.

691
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: For like two hours after, I was like, oh my

692
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: gosh's going to think I'm I didn't.

693
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 3: I think I walked in it just throughout time.

694
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: We did actually chat. You gave me a lot of love,

695
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: a lot of love. We've all had our hearts break.

696
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: It's good to talk about it.

697
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 2: And so Steve and Alex were really interested in starting

698
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 2: something that was e commoce related. So there was all

699
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 2: these kind of three things coming together. And it was Steve,

700
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 2: who owns a series of cafes in Melbourne, who had

701
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 2: women come in and ask for the coffee grinds, which

702
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: wasn't that unusual because people always liked to take them

703
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 2: home and use it as a guard.

704
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, but just after.

705
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 2: Chatting with them, they're like, oh, we usually just like

706
00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: to take it home and use it in our shower

707
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 2: as a body scrub. He he knows a good idea

708
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: when he hears one or ses one. He's like, that's

709
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 2: really interesting. That kind of fits the model of what

710
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 2: we've been talking about. So we did research. There was

711
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 2: nothing really on the market, and it was a lot

712
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: of DIY recipes. And it turns out that most of

713
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: the DIY recipes we're using recycled coffee grinds, which is

714
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: great for exfoliation, but doesn't really provide a lot of

715
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 2: the benefit from the caffeine.

716
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: No idea until I was diving deep into researching it

717
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: makes such a So is it the caffeine that stimulates

718
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: kind of like soon and good for cellul lize.

719
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so.

720
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 2: It's got so many amazing properties for your skin, and

721
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 2: so once you use recycled grinds it's in the cup

722
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 2: of coffee as opposed to in the product that you're using.

723
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 2: It's great for you know, potentially assisting collagen production, stimulating

724
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: blood flow. That's what we saw customers end up really

725
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 2: having that amazing effect on like cellular and stretch marks,

726
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 2: but mostly just the most epic body scrub because it's

727
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 2: so coarse.

728
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 3: So we it's good.

729
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: We're talking about They were always like having debates internally

730
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 2: ranking our scrubs. Everyone's very anti peppermint p PEP there

731
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 2: because it's such a good scrub.

732
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: It's so good for you.

733
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: Like peppermint oil has so many amazing properties, but I

734
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 2: think it's quite.

735
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 3: A polarizing smell as well.

736
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: I always find I use a peppermint more in the

737
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: morning because I want to be stimulated smelling that smell,

738
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: and then I'll go like something more calming at night

739
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: time or even just the o G.

740
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: I tend to do the same thing. We mixed a

741
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 2: whole bunch of things in the kitchen.

742
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: I heard, so you literally split up like coffee grinds

743
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: together and then like were like, I'm going to add

744
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: try this oil with this and it was s guinea

745
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: picked at yourself. Yep, great, had these.

746
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 3: Little like doggy bags, amazing stuff.

747
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: It looked like dirt.

748
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 2: Scrubbed loved it, and we started thought of thinking about, right,

749
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 2: this looks like dirt. We're competing in a market where

750
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: people are paying four hundred dollars for a jar of cream.

751
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: We're going to charge them for Dean bucks for this

752
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 2: back of natural ingredients.

753
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 3: But essentially things.

754
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: That people still could make together at home, they could

755
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 2: make something similar. We thought, all right, I don't want

756
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 2: to overcharge people for this. I really just want them

757
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 2: to pay what it's worth. I don't want to talk

758
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 2: to them about all of this bullshit, ageless, reverse your

759
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 2: face crap that people see everywhere, and cut through a

760
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 2: lot of the science and jargon in the beauty industry

761
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 2: and just get really real and honest and frank. And

762
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 2: that was how the whole brand philosophy kind of stemmed

763
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 2: from there. And because we're playing on social we thought

764
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 2: makes sense to try and talk in first person. We

765
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 2: can't come in here as a company and just be

766
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 2: really corporate. So the character of Frank was created off

767
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 2: the back of that, and that's kind of how it

768
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: all started to come together.

769
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: Is it true with the first few photo all the

770
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: first kind of like social and digital kind of campaign,

771
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 1: you were just using your own legs and stuff. Yeah,

772
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: that was just us.

773
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 2: We were just taking photos in the bathroom that looking

774
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 2: like swat monsters. And it was to show people. That

775
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 2: was really why, Because if you said coffee scrub didn't

776
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 2: mean anything to anyone, you didn't exist cut through. So like,

777
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 2: we'll have to just show people what it is. And

778
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 2: that's the philosophy we've lived by it all of our businesses.

779
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 2: Was really a show, don't tell. It's so so much easier.

780
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 2: That's a nice way to.

781
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: Do it with success as well. Yeah.

782
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone talks a lot about it, and you can

783
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 2: just kind of get on with things and get your

784
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 2: work done.

785
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 3: You'll end up in a much better position.

786
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: So how did it go from You've all chucked it

787
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: like a couple of grand in it each and was

788
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: a key like ten grand or something like that. Yeah,

789
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 1: if that, and then fast forward it's a twenty million

790
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: dollar company probably more now. Yeah.

791
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 3: I to be honest, I don't even pay attention to

792
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 3: what the company is.

793
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: Your sepple you just Sepple the nutritionness. She's a massive nutritionist.

794
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: She's brought supplements out and she's like, I don't know,

795
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: like as someone wrote her and told her to have

796
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: gone from the value had gone skyrocketed, and she was like,

797
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: ah great. She's like, I care about community and with

798
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: you guys, you care about like the products so much

799
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: that like the messaging and it's so cool to hear. Yeah,

800
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: and it can.

801
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 2: I think we went through a phase of caring too

802
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 2: much about that stuff.

803
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 3: It takes your eye off the ball.

804
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 2: And money is a really interesting thing because it can

805
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 2: be so empowering and then so dangerous totally, and so

806
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 2: we try not to focus on that anymore. And for me,

807
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 2: focusing on making great products and building an amazing community.

808
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 3: With our Frankfurts is what I love doing.

809
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cute, confusing for people in Germany, quite cute.

810
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it grew. We had no expectations.

811
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 2: It was like a maybe we'll make some extra beer

812
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: money from this type of project. We got beer money,

813
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: but we also got an amazing team of people that

814
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 2: you can see here now.

815
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: And yes it up to eighty, it's not eighty.

816
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 3: We've got about forty something here. In Australia.

817
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 2: We have a small team in New York and we

818
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 2: will have a team in London by the end of

819
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 2: the year. So excitating, never what we thought we'd end

820
00:36:59,040 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 2: up doing.

821
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: Ye give men like one of those moments where you

822
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: were like, I don't know if it's like you were

823
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: standing in store and you were like, oh my god,

824
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: someone's pecking it up. Oh someone's smelling us well, Like

825
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: have you had or is it like you've seen is

826
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: there been a celebrity that's got behind it, or has

827
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: it Has it been some moment where you're like, how

828
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 1: the f is this happening right now? Like those moments.

829
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 2: I love. There's strange moments that occur. So when we

830
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: launched in Mecca, that was incredible and it's.

831
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 1: Almost like the branding is designed for me.

832
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 3: To go together. And it was at the time they

833
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 3: didn't have Australian brands.

834
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 2: In store because their business model was built around bringing

835
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 2: international brands here exclusively. So that was a long shot

836
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 2: and you know, we could have not done it because

837
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: we thought we would have failed. But you just have

838
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 2: to go and chase those things because you already fail

839
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 2: if you don't even try.

840
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 3: That was amazing. But there's this really little moment.

841
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 2: That I had on a flight coming back from Queensland

842
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 2: to Melbourne and the girl sitting next to me pulled

843
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 2: out a frank body lipm this was maybe three.

844
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 1: I've still got mine. I love it. Sent me.

845
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 2: I've always had really dry lips, so that was the

846
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 2: lip scrub was born out of me battling with dry

847
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 2: lips all the time. I didn't say anything to her,

848
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 2: but I probably looked like the biggest creep, like.

849
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,479
Speaker 3: This chick, try I steal my staff, what are you doing?

850
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: But it was the best moment because that meant to me.

851
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 2: This isn't about my ego as much as you know.

852
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 2: When we saw our stuff in Mecca and on the windows,

853
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 2: I was really cool. I've had celebrities use the product.

854
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 3: This was just another person like me who thought, I

855
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 3: like that brand, I like that product. I'm going to

856
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 3: spend my ten.

857
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: Dollars on the lip bum Yeah, buy it and light

858
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 2: it enough to keep using it and carry it around

859
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 2: with her. And that meant the world to me. Yeah,

860
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: it was the first time i'd seen the product in

861
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 2: the wild.

862
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: In the wild, I love it and it's cool as well.

863
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 1: You've spoken to like it's someone having a purse, really

864
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: personal experience. It's not. Yeah, very very very very cool.

865
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: Oh man, there's so many things. I'm like, I'm looking

866
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: at my list, I'm like, shit, how am I going

867
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: to get through all of this? This is a podcast

868
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: about failure. And some people are really funny about that

869
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 1: word and are usually speaking of the feminine things, and

870
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: people like, oh, it's very lucky word. Can we call

871
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: it a lesson? Which we totally can. I love the

872
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: word failure personally. It just is what it is, isn't it.

873
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 1: It's so great. It's the biggest gift.

874
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 2: I think you learn so much more in the times

875
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 2: that things don't work than in the times did they work.

876
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 2: That's been my biggest lesson to date, to not be

877
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 2: scared of failing and stuffing things up here do.

878
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 1: You know Gary Ve? Yeah, he's like the most successful

879
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,240
Speaker 1: people will look forward to. And then I was telling

880
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: someone this and they said they read a paper about

881
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: the highest profile politicians love conflicts so much because it

882
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: teaches them about holes in their personality. Yeah.

883
00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 2: I love that and getting that real time feedback, like

884
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 2: learning about your blind spots. That all comes through like

885
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 2: it is lessons, but it's all linked to failure totally.

886
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: And so is it been any kind of like little

887
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: blip or fool Just like at the time, you're like,

888
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: but now you looking like that was the cool that

889
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 1: was a really cool gift. Yeah.

890
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 2: I mean we've launched products that weren't successful and like

891
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 2: that in itself is a failure and it costs the

892
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 2: business a lot of money and a lot.

893
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 3: Of time to do that.

894
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: And then outside of Frank Alex and myself, we had

895
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 2: two other businesses that we started years ago and they

896
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: didn't really go anywhere. And I look at it and

897
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 2: I think it's very A huge part of failing well

898
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: is understanding why things didn't work. And it would have

899
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 2: been so easy to just be like, oh, well that

900
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 2: wasn't a good idea and it didn't work, and I'm like, well, no,

901
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 2: I didn't put enough time and energy into it, and

902
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 2: that's why it didn't work. Maybe that idea is actually

903
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 2: still okay and someone else might do it better, but

904
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: I didn't give it the attention that it deserved.

905
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: That takes a lot lot of self understanding and it's

906
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:03,720
Speaker 1: olf factualization to know that though.

907
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 3: A lot of work, but I've done a lot of work.

908
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: On that therapy.

909
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you have therapy and working with the coach?

910
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: Yeah awesome.

911
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: I haven't as much in the last year or so,

912
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 2: but in the previous five years weekly Yeah good.

913
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

914
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 1: Your hard to is min I say that is I

915
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 1: think there's still a stigma around mental health and I'm

916
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: very passionate about therapy and not that there's anything wrong

917
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: with anyone. Like people go, you see therapists once a week.

918
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, hell, yeah, Like well what And I'm like

919
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: our motto is how can I be bulletproof? And I'm

920
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: like that's all I go there for. I literally went

921
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: started going about two and a half years ago, of course,

922
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: for heartbreak, because you know what I was like, yeah,

923
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,959
Speaker 1: the aisles of pran health food. So another heartbreak. Fast

924
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 1: forward a few years and it was the same thing.

925
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: I just couldn't unpack it and I always did this

926
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: thing where I'd blame it on myself. So I went

927
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: to therapists and then we dealt with that in three sessions.

928
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: Outrageous what you can get through and only a couple

929
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 2: of sessions, right, But then there are tools it teaches

930
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 2: you for.

931
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 3: When you're not apt in the office with a therapist.

932
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: Any but I said to him at the end, I

933
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: was like, at the third stasion, I said, can I

934
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: keep coming to you? I think it's a game change

935
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: of if you want to go beat play big in

936
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: your life, in happiness, in love, in success, because it

937
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: forces you to sit in the sheep.

938
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 2: Yeah it does, and to realize that it's okay to

939
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 2: be in the shit and like shit is going to happen,

940
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: and then the next time it happens, you're just so

941
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 2: much better equipped to deal with it or you can

942
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 2: see it before it's coming.

943
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: Totally.

944
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 2: Pay attention to the cues that you get, like it's

945
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: the best time and money I ever spent. But I

946
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 2: get it. For some people it's you know, we're lucky,

947
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 2: Like we're in a position of privilege where we can't

948
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 2: do that. So that I think it's great that there's

949
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 2: lots of free tools available online.

950
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: That's why this podcast exists, because it's to celebrate the

951
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: not so like pretty times. When I say pretty like,

952
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: I often say like you see our highlight reel on

953
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 1: in stuff totally, And so it is to celebrate so

954
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: people can like there would be so many people that

955
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: look up to you and go, fuck, I want I

956
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 1: want to do that. Yeah, but to hear that you've

957
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: one had to help too, had failures yep. To me,

958
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 1: that is a tool that people can go Actually, I

959
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: got this.

960
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 2: And it's really easy to look at someone who appears

961
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 2: to be successful and happy and just assume that it

962
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: was like a straight line to get there, like we're

963
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 2: all are still we all do that like it doesn't

964
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 2: exist now. So I like it when I have the

965
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 2: opportunity to talk to people about it, to point out

966
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 2: that no, I did not go to the best school.

967
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 3: I just worked hard.

968
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: I didn't come from a rich family. Just came from

969
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 2: like a normal middle class family in Australia and I

970
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 2: had to work really hard to get where I am

971
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 2: and I stuffed it up sometimes and then sometimes I

972
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 2: didn't work any many or as hard as I need to,

973
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:51,439
Speaker 2: and then that's why things took.

974
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: Can I ask you something about the hard works. I've

975
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: heard you speak to this before, and I found it

976
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: really like WHOA, when you're in that zone of like

977
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: I don't know whether it's like pre new product launching

978
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: or it's just like the stakes are quite high and

979
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 1: it's that kind of like higher pressure time, and I'm

980
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: sure that happens in ebbs and flows. Can you stay

981
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: at the office till like three am and I imagine

982
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: you're having calls with US UK, we're talking different time zone, ZL,

983
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: can you what is it? I'm guessing it's not a

984
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: nine to five work day.

985
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 2: No, Like yesterday is the perfect example. My first call

986
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 2: started at seven am with my team in the US.

987
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 2: I came straight into the office. Once that block of

988
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 2: two and a half hour calls had finished, I worked

989
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,359
Speaker 2: here until seven pm and I got in the car

990
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 2: and started a call with the UK at seven fifteen,

991
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 2: go home, started another call at eight thirty, and finished

992
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 2: that by about quarter past nine, and then I had dinner.

993
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: So that was my day.

994
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 2: It went for fifteen sixteen hours. And that is the

995
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 2: reality of trying to build a business. It's not that

996
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 2: I don't say in a way to be like, look

997
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 2: how much stuff.

998
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 3: I know, it's amazing. I would I totally prefer to

999
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 3: not do that.

1000
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, when the stakes are high and there's a lot

1001
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 2: of stuff to get done, and you've set yourself ambitious

1002
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 2: growth targets, well, the way to achieve them is to

1003
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 2: work towards them and You're right. It comes in ebbs

1004
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 2: and flows and I reflect them. I'm like, why am

1005
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 2: I so busy right now? Could I have to be

1006
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 2: in doing something a little bit better a few weeks

1007
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 2: ago that would have alleviated this. And That's what I've

1008
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 2: learned through like therapy and coaching, to be like, things

1009
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 2: don't happen to you, Like, yeah, we choose to respond

1010
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 2: to things the way that we do. We react to

1011
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 2: things the way that we do. So now I'm like,

1012
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 2: I could be really angry that I've just had a

1013
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 2: fifteen hour day. I'm trying to shove food in my

1014
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 2: mouth and go to bed because my next call starts

1015
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 2: at six am tomorrow. Or I could be like, Okay,

1016
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 2: how do I stop this cycle? What can I do

1017
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:45,879
Speaker 2: to cut things out a little bit?

1018
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: That takes high emotional intelligence, which is where therapy helps

1019
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: you kind of like tap into as well. I'm just

1020
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: so glad that you shared that though, because I think, again,

1021
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: it's not linear, and there are going to be days

1022
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: and times and like like right before I came in,

1023
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: I dropped a batch of coffee off and then I'm

1024
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: running back to a.

1025
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 3: Stock is even running in here. I'm like I'm sorry

1026
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 3: I'm late running in a few minutes later because that's

1027
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:11,919
Speaker 3: no life and trying to get stuff done.

1028
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: And I think that's good because you're humanizing this kind

1029
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 1: of like I think we can kind of like almost

1030
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: make successful people like heroes. And it's so nice to

1031
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: kind of like pull the veil down and be like no, no, no,

1032
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: some days are really hard yep, and just on this.

1033
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: The concept of this podcast is that celebrating they're not

1034
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: so shiny times. If you're comfortable, I'd love to ask

1035
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: you a little bit about insomnia. Oh god, I could

1036
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: talk about it for days. Yeah, yeah, And I've read

1037
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: that something really refreshing where you've said, you know, they say,

1038
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 1: you know, screens off at night, as you know, not

1039
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 1: the thing to do, but it's about point it works

1040
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: for you. My boyfriend also has insomnie and he has

1041
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: to fall asleep watching something on Netflix like headphones in.

1042
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: I'll be out like in five minutes, some one of

1043
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: those really annoying people. And he'll like to take natural

1044
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: sleeping stuff and have his headphones in and watching something

1045
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 1: on Netflix to help him get to sleep. And that

1046
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: goes against all the blue lights stuff. So can you

1047
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: share a bit about your anxiety both.

1048
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 2: To be honest, I have been a terrible sleeper for

1049
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: most of my adult life and come from a family

1050
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 2: of bad sleepers, so genetics is already.

1051
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 3: Up against them, up against it that way. I was

1052
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 3: listening to something really interesting on the way here.

1053
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 2: Actually, there's a new book coming out called Brainwash by

1054
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 2: two neuroscientists. I find now, you'll find it, and we

1055
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 2: can put it in the show notes.

1056
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: Yes, let's do it.

1057
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 2: And it was talking about how we know all of

1058
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 2: the information, most of us. If you're interested in this space,

1059
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 2: you've learned everything that there is to learn. Putting it

1060
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 2: into action is the complete opposite. And I have struggled

1061
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 2: with sleep for my whole life. And there are sometimes

1062
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,439
Speaker 2: when I really look after myself and I make better

1063
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 2: decisions and I sleep better, and then I I go

1064
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 2: through periods of you know, stress at work or emotional

1065
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 2: stress or whatever it might be in my life, and

1066
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 2: my sleep is the first thing to go. I've had

1067
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 2: a crappy month, like a really crappy month, and my

1068
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 2: sleep has been absolutely terrible, especially this week. Didn't sleep

1069
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 2: Monday night at all. I just went straight through to

1070
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 2: the next day.

1071
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: What do you do if you can't sleep.

1072
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 2: I try not to get on technology, and I do

1073
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 2: a lot of deep breathing, and I lie in bed,

1074
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 2: I get on my back, hand on my belly, hand

1075
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 2: on my chest, and I do breath work, or I

1076
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: do some stretching. That really helps to activate my parasympathy

1077
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 2: nervous system and get me back in it at least,

1078
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 2: not this frantic anxiety mode that I can enter if

1079
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 2: I'm not sleeping. But it's a struggle, and I like

1080
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 2: to be really real about it, like I tell my

1081
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 2: team and like I didn't sleep last night, because it's

1082
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 2: easier to manage people's expectations and they know that you're human,

1083
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 2: not a robot, and then you're not feeling like you're

1084
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 2: supposed to operate at the level that you would have

1085
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 2: if you'd slept.

1086
00:48:58,160 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: But I do.

1087
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 2: I watch television to help me get to sleep, and

1088
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 2: I feel guilty about.

1089
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 3: It, which is so stupid, isn't it.

1090
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: I'm like, I look at like Dan's like you, He'll

1091
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 2: just be asleep, He'll be snoring. He's still awake, how

1092
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 2: And I struggle If I fall asleep on the couch

1093
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 2: maybe once every couple of months. I'm like, oh my god,

1094
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 2: this is what feels like for people to just fall

1095
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 2: asleep rather than take prescription strength melatonin. Yeah, do breath

1096
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 2: work and yoga, have you know, valerian tea, no lights

1097
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 2: on for the last three hours, jazz candles, blue blocking glasses, Like,

1098
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 2: I do so many things to help me sleep, and

1099
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 2: then sometimes it's just like, you know, shit hits the

1100
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:41,839
Speaker 2: fan and things don't go according to plan.

1101
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,760
Speaker 1: Again, not to take it too esoterical. Do you find

1102
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,280
Speaker 1: that like certain times, like because a lot of people

1103
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 1: struggle with sleep, Like even again, I'm like a sleep

1104
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: like a log, but like at full moons at certain

1105
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,240
Speaker 1: times the I mean, you might not be totally into astrology,

1106
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 1: but I find like Matt will even call me it's like,

1107
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: how did you sleep last night?

1108
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, man, it's a full moon stuffs

1109
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 2: me around so much.

1110
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, and certain times in my cycle.

1111
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, yep, that's natural. Yeah, that's so normal.

1112
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 3: So that those two things.

1113
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 2: But then I wonder what the correlation is and I'm like,

1114
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 2: do I see that it's a full moon and something

1115
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,720
Speaker 2: inside my brain's like, you're not going to sleep tonight?

1116
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 3: And then I don't sleep because I've seen it or

1117
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 3: is it because it was like had I not seen it,

1118
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 3: would I not sleep?

1119
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: Anyway? I think it's I think there is something bigger

1120
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: at play. I think it's I believe that the full

1121
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: moon has got something to do with it. Yeah, one hundred.

1122
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: Even when I was practicing as a nutritionists, I can

1123
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 1: promise you YEA affects people emotionally as well, big time.

1124
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 2: It's so interesting to research all of that stuff. And

1125
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 2: I think the best thing any in something I can

1126
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 2: do is try and understand their body and their triggers.

1127
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 2: More like you can do things to minimize it. You

1128
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 2: just have to understand that you're probably not going to

1129
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 2: be a champion sleeper.

1130
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: That's what Matt says to me, and I think and

1131
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 1: that's what I loved what you said. It's like about

1132
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: finding what works right for you and like definitely drop

1133
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 1: the guilt on the screen. Yeah time, Like sometimes like

1134
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: it really it's like, can we for say this, who

1135
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 1: are we watching something? I'm like, why are you watching that?

1136
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 1: Without me kind of like peer over his shoulder and

1137
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: make you give me a headphone like I'm so pain.

1138
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 1: We have our.

1139
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 3: Jesses Innia shows. Yeah, the shows that we watched together,

1140
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,439
Speaker 3: and I'm like, god, it's so hard not to watch

1141
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 3: those ones when I can't sleep.

1142
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 1: Do you and because I accidently tripped on my words before,

1143
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: But do you find that it correlates with anxiety or

1144
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: does one feed the other?

1145
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 2: I think they feed each other. Yeah, yeah, so there's

1146
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 2: definitely this feedback loop going on.

1147
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 3: But I've I'm just.

1148
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 2: So much more aware of it now, and that again

1149
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 2: just comes through doing lots of work around self awareness.

1150
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm a naturally anxious person, always have been

1151
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 2: and probably always will be.

1152
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: You would probably be an impath as well, though I am.

1153
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which, yeah, the lovely and damaging quality for

1154
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 2: a lot of people. You know, it's there's two sides

1155
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 2: at the same coin, totally.

1156
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: But when we haven't seen each other for how long,

1157
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: honestly years, I ran into about a year ago future

1158
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 1: future we did randomly on like second day.

1159
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 2: It was so nervous. He's so funny, but prior to

1160
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 2: that would be years.

1161
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: And from the second I got here, like, I could

1162
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: feel your energy straight away, and you're more of an

1163
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,799
Speaker 1: EmPATH than me, and yeah, I can feel that and

1164
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: it's such a beautiful. I get a bit jealous of

1165
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,399
Speaker 1: really good empaths because I'm like, I think that you are.

1166
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: I can feel people. I'm insured if I can feel people.

1167
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: But you've got this beautiful like softness in your heart.

1168
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 3: Yes, I tried just not to be an urshole.

1169
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: That's a really point. There's a hook climb. That's what

1170
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 1: you can title the show. It's almost we've almost run

1171
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: out in time. I'm going to ask you one more question.

1172
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: It's a bit more business related, and it's on the

1173
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:50,280
Speaker 1: kind of value thing. How on earth do you handle copycats?

1174
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 1: Because there is an f ton of them out there. Oh,

1175
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: there are a lot, especially for you guys. I feel

1176
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: it used.

1177
00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 2: To bother me, particularly the people who would copy the

1178
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 2: brand word for word. Like we've had people rip the

1179
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,760
Speaker 2: source code off the website, literally copy and paste the text.

1180
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 3: But it's exactly like what we talked about with.

1181
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,760
Speaker 2: You can either give your energy to things, people, places, whatever,

1182
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 2: or you can decide that you got better things to

1183
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: worry about. And I had to make a switch. We

1184
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 2: all did, and so we we just don't worry about them.

1185
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 2: I honestly don't bother We've got all of our trademarks.

1186
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 2: If anyone is seriously infringing on them. Our lawyers will

1187
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 2: help us. But now I just go, they're probably they're

1188
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 2: doing it for the wrong reasons because they're doing it

1189
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 2: to make money, because there's clearly no passion or originality

1190
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 2: in the idea, and.

1191
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 3: That's about them, and maybe they're.

1192
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,959
Speaker 2: Going through something where they're placing this value on something

1193
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 2: that isn't really important.

1194
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 3: When we have new team members start.

1195
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 2: They're always like, oh my god, this is ourageous, and

1196
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 2: we sort of have to train them into going it's

1197
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 2: not for us to worry about, like, let's just focus

1198
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 2: on doing our thing and doing it well and staying

1199
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 2: ahead of the curve. So that's I think a good

1200
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 2: lesson for everyone.

1201
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:00,919
Speaker 1: And I heard you guys speak on podcast where it's

1202
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 1: like you've got the product, like the physical products, you've

1203
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: got the brand. They're quite they're two they're two different.

1204
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: But then you've also got like I don't know if

1205
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 1: this is me as listening and like doing my interpretation

1206
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: of it. Then you've got the feeling that brand of

1207
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,240
Speaker 1: Boks and the feeling you get from having that product

1208
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: in your life. And to get that matrix kind of

1209
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:24,319
Speaker 1: like humming, you need to be a genius and you

1210
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: need to be.

1211
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,840
Speaker 3: Thinks that's nice, not geniuses at all. We're really lucky

1212
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 3: like that.

1213
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 2: We have an amazing community of people and people are

1214
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:38,879
Speaker 2: smart and when they see copycat brands, but they call

1215
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 2: it out, well, we don't even have to do anything

1216
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 2: because these people that are the reason our brand exists

1217
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:45,879
Speaker 2: are doing it for us and they show so much

1218
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 2: loyalty to the brand that like, that makes you feel

1219
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:50,760
Speaker 2: really good when that happens.

1220
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:53,240
Speaker 1: That puts a lot of trust in the process.

1221
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 2: And I think, but that's that fourth element, like you

1222
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 2: need people there who want to hear what you have

1223
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 2: to say or buy what you're selling them.

1224
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 3: And we're lucky. We've got a great community of people

1225
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 3: to do that.

1226
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: And I know I should be out of questions, but

1227
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: I just want to know. You've got Will and Blake yeap,

1228
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 1: Frank body yep, frame, Like how do you balance? And

1229
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: then you've got this wonderful husband, you know what I mean?

1230
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: Like you live down morning the potentially you know, how

1231
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 1: do you balance all this? Is it a bit of equanimity?

1232
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:26,040
Speaker 1: Like it will certain things will be like Okay, I'm

1233
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: in this mind frame today and I'm in this one.

1234
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:29,879
Speaker 1: How do you find that back.

1235
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 2: I go either between that like ebbing and flowing between things,

1236
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 2: or I am in a period where I'm extremely regimented

1237
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 2: and I block out my calendar for the basically the

1238
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 2: month ahead, and I know I don't try to write

1239
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 2: lists of everything I have to do, because you look

1240
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:50,359
Speaker 2: at that and immediately you like, can't do that.

1241
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 3: Impossible. It's like, what are my key big projects?

1242
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 2: My porities are going to be business changing or help

1243
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 2: my team do their jobs better, and I only focus

1244
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 2: on them and how to eliminate other things in my life.

1245
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 2: So if you email me, you get an auto responder

1246
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,760
Speaker 2: that says I'm not checking my email. If random people

1247
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 2: ask me for coffee dates or advice, I've had to

1248
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 2: just I hate saint no, but I have to.

1249
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 3: You have to like say no to things. And that

1250
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:17,720
Speaker 3: was one of my newest resolutions. I'm just absolutely not.

1251
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 2: Having coffee with people I don't know anymore because I

1252
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 2: can't fitted in and then really sticking to that schedule,

1253
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,399
Speaker 2: which can be hard as an insomniac, because and what's

1254
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:29,720
Speaker 2: your star's on pisces?

1255
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:32,439
Speaker 1: Oh yeah? And your water? Yeah, my water?

1256
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 2: So I naturally want to be like yeah, yeah, so

1257
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:39,720
Speaker 2: I've had to learn how to do things that don't

1258
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 2: necessarily come naturally to me.

1259
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: They dam.

1260
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 3: What is dance Satittarius's Yeah, that brings He's my grounding

1261
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 3: force in my life.

1262
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, good combo water yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

1263
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 3: I love like the roaring flood that takes him over.

1264
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then you've got his his solid Yeah.

1265
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 3: It's very relationship.

1266
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1267
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 2: I'm a floater and a dreamer. He's a realist and grounded,

1268
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 2: so caring. So yeah, I'm just trying not to be

1269
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:11,720
Speaker 2: too hard on myself if I don't get stuff done

1270
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 2: and talk honestly about it with people.

1271
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 3: If I'm behind or struggling with.

1272
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 1: Things, You're awesome. I'm not, you are, but thanks. Can

1273
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 1: we just end it with like, just for someone listening

1274
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: to this and might be like, Okay, okay, I'm going

1275
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: to do it. I'm going to do it, just like

1276
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: one bit of self talk, like what you know, one

1277
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: little bit of self advice.

1278
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 2: I think if you are thinking about changing your job

1279
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 2: or making a major life decision following a passion starting

1280
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 2: a business, you just the best thing you can do

1281
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 2: is ask yourself questions to understand why you.

1282
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 1: Want to do it.

1283
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 2: So I worry that we've entered this age where there's

1284
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 2: so much focus on like doing your own thing.

1285
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and that's not right.

1286
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 2: For everybody, and but it creates this pressure, like pressure

1287
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 2: cookree environment. Everyone's like, oh am, I supposed to greet

1288
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 2: my job and do something else, or like but I'm

1289
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 2: kind of happy, I'm supposed to be more happy.

1290
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1291
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 2: I think self reflection and I'm very much about asking

1292
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 2: questions of myself and of other people.

1293
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 3: So I don't know anyone listening.

1294
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 2: I can't give them solid advice or what to do,

1295
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,480
Speaker 2: but I think they can be their own therapist and

1296
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 2: ask themselves a lot of questions.

1297
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of those motivational books will

1298
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: often often be like what is your why? Like what

1299
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 1: is the purpose? Why are you doing what you're doing?

1300
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 1: And I think like being really honest with yourself, Like

1301
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: I'm a dreamer as well, and I'll know if I

1302
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 1: don't chase this thing, I'm going to feel like there's

1303
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:45,920
Speaker 1: something missing. It will often be navigator for me, like

1304
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 1: if it's that important, then I'm going to feel pretty

1305
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: shitty and have regret, and I'll be like, well, if

1306
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 1: you don't do it. You've got to live with that

1307
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 1: feeling normally, and that's where the why kind of sorts

1308
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 1: itself out pretty fast.

1309
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 2: I'm exactly the same, and then just trying to understand

1310
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 2: your own timeline as well. We've put a lot of

1311
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 2: pressure on ourselves to do it now or to wait

1312
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 2: for the right time, and I don't know, You've just

1313
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 2: got to work out what's best for you.

1314
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 1: Do you know what a Nashpath taught me. Time is

1315
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 1: a constraint of the human mind. Yeah.

1316
00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 3: I like that, It really is, isn't it.

1317
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 1: So you can do it your way, mate?

1318
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1319
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: You know, yep, you're the best. Thank you.

1320
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 3: It's a nice chat.

1321
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 1: Oh mate.

1322
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 3: I'm excited to try this coffee too.

1323
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:31,560
Speaker 1: It's joy I will all right, big love beauty babe.

1324
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 1: That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing. As always,

1325
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: thank you to our guests, and let's continue the conversation

1326
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 1: on Instagram. I'm at Yamo lollaberry. This potty my word

1327
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 1: for podcast is available on all streaming platforms. I'd love

1328
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 1: it if you could subscribe, rate and comment and of

1329
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 1: course spread the luf

1330
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 2: O