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Speaker 1: So this is the newest skill. It's very forward facing,

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Speaker 1: it's a skill that would not have existed two years ago.

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Speaker 2: That's Tim Dagan, best selling author of Work Backwards, and

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Speaker 2: someone who spends a lot of time thinking about how

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Speaker 2: work is evolving. And if you're looking to get a

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Speaker 2: promotion this year or make some big steps up in

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Speaker 2: the career ladder, can I suggest that simply working harder

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Speaker 2: might not be the thing that gets you there? I know,

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Speaker 2: slightly controversial, so LinkedIn recently released data showing that seventy

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Speaker 2: percent of the skills we will need at work over

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Speaker 2: the next five years are about to change, which means

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Speaker 2: doubling down on what you're already good at might not

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Speaker 2: be the safest strategy. So I invited Tim on to

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Speaker 2: unpack the five skills that will actually make you more

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Speaker 2: promotable this year, and they're quite possibly not the ones

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Speaker 2: you're spending time on. So if you've been feeling the

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Speaker 2: pace of check and wandering to yourself, am I keeping up?

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Speaker 2: By the end of this episode, you'll have at least

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Speaker 2: one clear skill to focus on building. Next Welcome to

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Speaker 2: How I Work, a show about habits, rituals, and strategies

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Speaker 2: for optimizing your day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha imber

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Speaker 2: Tim I wanted to chat. We've known each other for

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Speaker 2: a couple of years now, and I was really struck

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Speaker 2: by one of your columns that you recently wrote for

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Speaker 2: the Sydney Morning Herald that was titled what a land

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Speaker 2: of promotion this year? Here are five key skills that

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Speaker 2: you will need? And I think that this was inspired

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Speaker 2: by a statistic that LinkedIn released around how the world

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Speaker 2: of work and the skills that we need are changing.

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Speaker 3: Can you tell me about that sure thing?

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Speaker 1: And can I just say how wonderful it is to

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Speaker 1: be back. I always really love chatting with you, both

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Speaker 1: on and off the microphone. There is so much upheaval

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Speaker 1: happening at the moment, and it feels like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you talk about it, I talk about it. But it

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Speaker 1: does feel like now we're starting to see a bunch

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Speaker 1: of these data points actually come into life, and one

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Speaker 1: of them was some data from LinkedIn where they looked

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Speaker 1: at the skills that we're going to need for work

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Speaker 1: over the next five years. So what they actually found,

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Speaker 1: and this was a bit alarming for me, was that

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Speaker 1: seventy percent of the skills that we're going to need

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Speaker 1: at work are about to change, so they're not the

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Speaker 1: skills that we currently have. And it made me really

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Speaker 1: go down a rabbit warren of figuring out what are

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Speaker 1: these skills that we're going to need because you and

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Speaker 1: I think we know how we're going to work in

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Speaker 1: the future, and it turns out that there's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of skills which are actually not really that well prepared

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Speaker 1: for at the moment.

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Speaker 2: So I want to go through the five skills that

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Speaker 2: you wrote about, and the first skill that you talk

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Speaker 2: about is judgment, and I would love to know, like,

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Speaker 2: what does good judgment look like at work?

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Speaker 1: Judgment's one of these ones that you'd never normally really

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Speaker 1: think about. I think most of us assume that we

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Speaker 1: have good judgment. Most of us assume that we know

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about, that we can decide if something

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Speaker 1: is good or something is bad. And what we're actually seeing,

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Speaker 1: particularly with AI at the moment, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: these skills, surprise surprise, have to do with the impact

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Speaker 1: that AI is having on the workforce, and judgment is

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Speaker 1: one of those because judgment is really about with all

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Speaker 1: of the work that our agents are starting to do

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Speaker 1: for us, we assume and are the ones that.

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Speaker 3: Look at this work.

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Speaker 1: We obviously put prompts in and we get outputs from it,

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Speaker 1: and agentic AI completes tasks for us. But where the

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Speaker 1: one that then have to decide is this good? Is

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Speaker 1: this a hallucination? Should I be using this? Should I

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Speaker 1: be forwarding this to my boss us? A very very

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Speaker 1: simple example of this is some of the AI that's

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Speaker 1: filtering now into Gmail and to Outlook and Microsoft, so

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Speaker 1: things like Gemini where it says I can compose this

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Speaker 1: email for you, and it kind of gives you sometimes

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Speaker 1: the text of sometimes without you even asking, it gives

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Speaker 1: you the text of what you should say. And judgment

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Speaker 1: is about deciding should I do this? Is this the

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Speaker 1: right person to send this to? And is this even good?

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Speaker 1: Is this one I want to say? So all of

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Speaker 1: these things are skills that we haven't really actually had

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Speaker 1: to think that actively about before in the workplace.

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Speaker 2: This one really scares me because I look at how

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Speaker 2: the amount of grad jobs are being reduced across a

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Speaker 2: lot of industries, a lot of organizations, And when I

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Speaker 2: think about judgment, I think about, well, that's experience, like

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Speaker 2: that's doing things over and over again and then doing

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Speaker 2: different things over the course of years or maybe decades,

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Speaker 2: and then through those experiences you build up your judgement muscle.

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Speaker 2: But there's obviously got to be another way because that's

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Speaker 2: simply not going to work because a lot of more

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Speaker 2: junior jobs are being now done by AI. So do

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Speaker 2: you have any thoughts or strategies that you think about

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Speaker 2: when it comes to how can we build our judgment muscle?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and judgment and experience are interrelated, but they're not

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Speaker 1: the exact same thing. So I think you can get

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Speaker 1: better at judgment through experience. So the more you do something,

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Speaker 1: the more you start realizing is this a good idea

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Speaker 1: or not. However, when we talk about AI, all of

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Speaker 1: us have roughly the same man experience. At the moment,

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Speaker 1: AI is still that new that if someone.

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Speaker 3: Says that they are an AI expert, they're.

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Speaker 1: Just someone who I think has been paid attention and

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Speaker 1: has consciously decided to do that in recent years.

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Speaker 3: So the most interesting.

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Speaker 1: Part about this is you can increase your judgment levels

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Speaker 1: by doing a lot of this stuff. At the moment,

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Speaker 1: I think most people are kind of around here. If

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Speaker 1: you look at think about the skill set of how

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Speaker 1: we think about AI, no one's really that far ahead

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Speaker 1: because no one has had years and years and decades

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Speaker 1: of experience, and that's very actually quite rare when you

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Speaker 1: think about it in terms of the skills that we're

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Speaker 1: going to need. So I see that as a real

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Speaker 1: positive because it means no one is that bar ahead

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Speaker 1: that you can't catch up at the moment.

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Speaker 2: I think that's super encouraging. Something I think about, you know,

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Speaker 2: in terms of how we can improve our ability to

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Speaker 2: judge something or at least think critically. A couple of

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Speaker 2: tools that I will often come back to first is

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Speaker 2: I love a good pre mortem, particularly when I'm making

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Speaker 2: a big decision or my team is on the cusp

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Speaker 2: of making a big decision. We will, and certainly have

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Speaker 2: quite often at Inventium, run pre mortems where we imagine

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Speaker 2: that we've done this thing and then it's like three

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Speaker 2: or six or twelve months out into the future, and

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Speaker 2: it's either being a total success or a total failure,

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Speaker 2: and we think about, okay, like, what are the conditions

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Speaker 2: and what has happened that has led to either one

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Speaker 2: of those outcomes, And then often when we think through that,

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Speaker 2: we can then work backwards and either go actually I

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Speaker 2: don't think we should do this. I don't think we

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Speaker 2: should implement this idea or we can improve it through

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Speaker 2: future projecting ourselves.

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Speaker 1: I adore the idea of the pre mortems as well.

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Speaker 1: I'm currently writing my newest newsletter for this month and

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Speaker 1: it's actually on the idea of pre mortems. And it's

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Speaker 1: because I recently held a big workshop for twenty people

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Speaker 1: that I'm mentoring, and as part of that, everyone has

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Speaker 1: goals and so they've got these twelve months goals and

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Speaker 1: what they want to get to. And what we did

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Speaker 1: was do a pre mortem exercise to say, if we're

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Speaker 1: here in twelve months time and you haven't hit your goals,

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Speaker 1: what is the most likely reason for that. So by

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Speaker 1: doing that, all of a sudden, everyone got out what

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Speaker 1: their biggest obstacle was, what their biggest fear was. And

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Speaker 1: in doing that you can then start figuring out, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is the things I need to do in order

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Speaker 1: to get around that. The way that I normally think

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Speaker 1: about pre mortems is normally in a negative way, thinking

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Speaker 1: about if this is going to fail, this is why failed.

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Speaker 1: So I find interesting that you think about it in

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Speaker 1: a positive way as well.

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Speaker 3: How could we succeed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember we ran one many years ago before

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Speaker 2: we implemented our four day week. So we've run a

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Speaker 2: four day week at Inventium for about five and a

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Speaker 2: half years now.

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Speaker 1: You are the longest running four day week that I

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Speaker 1: know of a man.

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Speaker 2: I think we were the first in Australia to implement it,

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Speaker 2: so that's kind of cool. But yeah, I remember we

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Speaker 2: got the whole team together and we did a pre

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Speaker 2: mortem and we looked at what if it's a really

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Speaker 2: big success and what if it's a really big failure.

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Speaker 2: And I still remember that because that then influenced the

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Speaker 2: guiding principles that we still have to this day around

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Speaker 2: the four day week. Something else I love and I

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Speaker 2: think I've learned this, and it's just before we started recording.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about a few authors that we like, and

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Speaker 2: the Heath brothers, Chip and Dan Heath came up and

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Speaker 2: one of my favorite books of theirs is Decisive, And

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that this comes from Decisive. But when

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Speaker 2: we've got a big decision to make, and again we're

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Speaker 2: still sort of talking about Judge and how we can improve,

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Speaker 2: you know, how good our critical thinking is, particularly around

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Speaker 2: decisions is not just making either or or whether or

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Speaker 2: not decisions. So whether or not decision is should I

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Speaker 2: do the thing or should I not do the thing?

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Speaker 2: And typically those kinds of decisions fail I think about

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Speaker 2: fifty percent of the time. But they're really really common decisions.

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Speaker 2: And so what chippen down Heath talk about is thinking about, well,

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Speaker 2: what are some other plausible alternatives, so that you're not

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Speaker 2: making whether or not decisions? You're always deciding should it

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Speaker 2: be this thing or should it be that thing or

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Speaker 2: that other thing. And that's something I will often come

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Speaker 2: back to when I'm making decisions. I'll catch myself if

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Speaker 2: it feels like a weather or not decision, and if

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Speaker 2: it is, then I'll spend more time thinking about, well,

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Speaker 2: what are some other really reasonable alternatives.

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Speaker 3: I love that. That's excellent. I haven't read that.

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Speaker 1: I've read a lot of Chip of Dad's stuff, but

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Speaker 1: I haven't read Decisive. And now that makes me want

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Speaker 1: to put on the book and figure out I've just

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Speaker 1: got insights like that.

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Speaker 3: It's so good.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's move on to skill number two, which is storytelling.

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Speaker 2: So tell me what does it mean to be good

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Speaker 2: at storytelling in the work context?

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Speaker 3: So storytelling is this really interesting one?

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Speaker 1: And some of these skills might sound like their soft skills,

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Speaker 1: but they're actually really hard and really useful once you

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Speaker 1: can figure them out. And storytelling came from Wall Street

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Speaker 1: Journal wrote a report a few weeks ago where it

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Speaker 1: started looking at the number of job listings with the

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Speaker 1: word storyteller in that and they found that in the

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Speaker 1: US alone it had doubled in the last year. So

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Speaker 1: they are now about seventy thousand jobs that had the

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Speaker 1: word storyteller somewhere in it. And what this is is,

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Speaker 1: once again, this is a lot of these are reactions

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Speaker 1: to things happening in AI, which is when the whole

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Speaker 1: point of some of the content and some of the

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Speaker 1: ideas that get produced are that they are the median,

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Speaker 1: or they are the average, or they are the most expected.

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Speaker 1: So storytelling is how can you find a way through

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Speaker 1: all that noise? So, when there is so much noise

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Speaker 1: out there, how do you find a way to It

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Speaker 1: might be telling your company story from a marketing sense,

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Speaker 1: That could be telling your own personal story within a business, or.

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Speaker 3: It could be helping the CEO tell their story.

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Speaker 1: There's lots of different ways that storytelling abounds, but it's

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Speaker 1: a really fascinating and kind of quite hard skill to master.

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Speaker 2: I love this one, and I've got to do a

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Speaker 2: shout out to Matthew Dix, who I think is one

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Speaker 2: of the masters of storytelling out there. I interviewed him

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Speaker 2: on How I Work maybe three or four years ago.

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Speaker 2: I'll linked to that episode in the show notes because

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Speaker 2: I think that it's really hard to craft a good story.

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Speaker 2: And in the last few weeks, I've been working on

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Speaker 2: a new keynote around psychological safety because a particular company

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Speaker 2: two hundred leaders around how to build s like safety.

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Speaker 2: And it was funny going through the process of creating

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Speaker 2: a new keynote because aside from obviously the science and

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Speaker 2: you know, what's been shown in the research to drive

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Speaker 2: sit safety, I knew that in order for the keynote

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Speaker 2: to land and to actually connect with these leaders, I

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Speaker 2: needed to share stories from my own life, and I

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Speaker 2: think that was the most time consuming part of constructing

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Speaker 2: that keynote. It wasn't the knowledge around Okay, what drives

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Speaker 2: like safety and what are some you know, really practical

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Speaker 2: science based tools that I can share, but thinking about

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Speaker 2: what are the best personal stories that I can share

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Speaker 2: that will help connect with the audience on an emotional level,

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Speaker 2: and then digging even different, going Okay, how do I

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Speaker 2: best construct each of these stories? How do I create

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Speaker 2: stakes so that the stories are not just anecdotes? I

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Speaker 2: would love to know for you, Tim, do you have

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Speaker 2: any go to frameworks or tools or anything like that

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Speaker 2: when you think about constructing stories. I feel like you're

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Speaker 2: a great story to particularly in your books. I feel

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Speaker 2: like you're quite masterful at that.

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Speaker 3: That's funny.

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Speaker 1: I'm currently writing my fourth book at the moment, and

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Speaker 1: I went through the exact same thinking that you did

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Speaker 1: with your keynote, which is, how can I tell because

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Speaker 1: you've got to have some personal stories in there, how

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Speaker 1: this affects you, But how do you actually tell them

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Speaker 1: in a way that's relevant and interesting, has a beginning,

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Speaker 1: in the middle, and end. There's lots of different frameworks

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Speaker 1: out there. The Hero's Journey is a really great example

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Speaker 1: of a framework that people can look up. But when

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Speaker 1: I think of storytelling, the simplest thing that I think of,

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Speaker 1: and the way that I always try to teach people

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Speaker 1: storytelling is that storytelling is best when it's shared from

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Speaker 1: one person to another person. So if you're going to

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Speaker 1: give someone a story, how are they going to then

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Speaker 1: tell it to the next person, Tell it to the

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Speaker 1: next person, tell it to the next person. So the

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Speaker 1: simplicity of an idea, the ability to crystallize something down

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Speaker 1: to its simplest form, because I actually think that storytelling

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Speaker 1: is all about how can you communicate in the most

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Speaker 1: simplest ways possible. So anytime I am writing a book

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Speaker 1: and thinking of a story or creating a keynote trying

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Speaker 1: to come up with the story, I think about, what

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Speaker 1: is that person in the audience or that reader, how

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Speaker 1: are they going to tell it to the person next

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Speaker 1: to them? And that's the way that I really try

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Speaker 1: and make it simple. To do that, I get rid

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Speaker 1: of complicated things. I make sure that there's no jargon

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Speaker 1: that people don't understand. I make sure that it has

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Speaker 1: really simple, clear messages all the way through.

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Speaker 3: And that's kind of one of my tests.

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Speaker 2: I like that one. Okay, let me share one that

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Speaker 2: I think is really simple. It's so easy to remember,

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Speaker 2: and I'll often come back to it when I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to construct a story. And you might have come across

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Speaker 2: this one. It's called and butt Therefore, how it works

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Speaker 2: is you start with the end and this happened. What

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Speaker 2: is the scenario, the world that we're building here. Then

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Speaker 2: the butt is where you introduce the tension, because stories

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Speaker 2: need tension otherwise they are boring. And then you finished

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Speaker 2: with it. Therefore, because stories need an outcome, they need

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Speaker 2: a moral, they need a lesson, and so and we introduce,

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Speaker 2: you know, the world, the scenario, but we introduce the

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Speaker 2: tension and the stakes, and then obviously that needs to

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Speaker 2: get resolved. And then therefore is what the take home

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Speaker 2: is from that story. I think that that's just a

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Speaker 2: super simple little framework to come back to.

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Speaker 3: That's great.

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Speaker 1: I learned to love the simplicity within that. It is

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Speaker 1: the best ideas, the ones that you can just really

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Speaker 1: pass on to someone. And they're really memorable as well,

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Speaker 1: which is why things like acronyms are so important, because

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Speaker 1: acronyms are our way you've been able to remember things

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Speaker 1: easily when you can spell something out and be like, ah,

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Speaker 1: that's that method, it's the poor letter method, it's you know,

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Speaker 1: the life method, the heart method.

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Speaker 3: Or whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: I'm a big, big fan of acronyms, so much so

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Speaker 1: my monthly newsletter is called outlet, which stands for one

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Speaker 1: useful thing Literally every.

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Speaker 2: Time that's cool.

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Speaker 1: There are acronyms throughout my entire career. I always bring

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Speaker 1: it makes me.

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Speaker 3: Sure, that's awesome.

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Speaker 2: Outlet. Coming up next, Tim and I discuss three other

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Speaker 2: skills that are going to be critical if you want

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Speaker 2: to get ahead in your career. This year, we're going

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Speaker 2: to be talking about how to actually work with AI

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Speaker 2: without outsourcing your brain. We're going to get into this

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Speaker 2: idea of unlearning, which quite frankly most of us resist

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Speaker 2: because it's really hard. And we finish on Tim's favorite

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Speaker 2: skill of them all, conflict and how to manage it,

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Speaker 2: and Tim shares the one tiny word that has completely

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Speaker 2: changed how he manages any kind of conflict in his

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Speaker 2: own life.

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Speaker 4: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way

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Speaker 4: you work can live. I write a short weekly newsletter

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Speaker 4: that contains tactics I've discovered that have helped me personally.

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Speaker 4: You can sign up for that at Amantha dot com.

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Speaker 4: That's Amantha dot com.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's move on to skill number three, which is

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Speaker 2: collaborative intelligence. What does this mean? Tim?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is the probably the most the newest

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Speaker 1: skill it's very forward facing. It's a skill that would

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Speaker 1: not have existed I would hesitate to say, two years ago,

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Speaker 1: with the speed at which things are changing. And this

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Speaker 1: is a part Jim Wilson from ETCENT calls this the

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Speaker 1: missing middle, which is the part where this is about

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Speaker 1: collaboration between robots, which AI and urgentic agents and all

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Speaker 1: the tools that everyone listening to this is using because

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Speaker 1: they listen to you and they know how much you

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Speaker 1: use them and how much it's helpful, and that link

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Speaker 1: between the robots and the humans, so that kind of

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Speaker 1: like collaboration that happens between AI and humans. This is

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Speaker 1: really one of the new skill sets that people are

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Speaker 1: looking for.

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Speaker 3: And part of this.

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Speaker 1: The way I think about this is it's a little

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Speaker 1: bit about identity and about how we see AI, and

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Speaker 1: so if you only see it as a threat, then

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Speaker 1: you're not going to take most advantage of this collabortive intelligence,

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Speaker 1: whereas if you see it as an opportunity and an

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Speaker 1: idea to one plus one equals three or one plus

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Speaker 1: one might be three hundred sooner. The way that AI

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Speaker 1: development is going, collaborative intelligence is really intelligence that we

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Speaker 1: are going to need to collaborate as effectively as we

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Speaker 1: can with AI.

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Speaker 2: How do you think about this in your work and

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Speaker 2: how you see AI as a thought partner or someone

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Speaker 2: you delegate to, like, how do you conceptualize it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think about it a lot because I use

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Speaker 1: it a lot. I really think about it as a

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Speaker 1: give example of the book writing, because it's been the

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Speaker 1: big focus of my time. This was the first book

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Speaker 1: out of the three books I've written so far that

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Speaker 1: AI was extremely useful as a research and inspiring partner.

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Speaker 1: Extremely useful, I kind of almost to the extent of

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Speaker 1: now find it.

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Speaker 3: I could go back to.

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Speaker 1: Writing how I used to research and how I used

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Speaker 1: to but not in the same way. My red line

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Speaker 1: is that I don't let AI write anything. I still

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Speaker 1: want that to be my own words, my own ideas,

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Speaker 1: my own way of speaking, because I really enjoy that

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Speaker 1: human element of that. But as far as a research

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Speaker 1: assistant goes the ability to comb through research reports to

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Speaker 1: find obscure pieces of information and data that I would

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Speaker 1: not have been able to find anywhere else to sense check. However,

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Speaker 1: the judgment going back to one of the skills that

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Speaker 1: I have. I have collaborative intelligence because I collaborate with

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Speaker 1: them but the judgment I have is that every single

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Speaker 1: thing that gives me I still go back and double check,

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Speaker 1: so especially research, especially reports that it kind of gives.

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Speaker 3: If it says seventy six percent of.

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Speaker 1: People believe this, I need to go back and read

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Speaker 1: it and find it and make sure that's actually what

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Speaker 1: it's saying, because that's the judgment part, which I think

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Speaker 1: is really important as opposed to letting things go through

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Speaker 1: without kind of like deciding is that actually correct. I

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Speaker 1: think when you write books, you have a real sense

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Speaker 1: of responsibility that you need to make sure that everything

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Speaker 1: in there is as accurate as a can bag.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, one hundred percent. I also use it

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Speaker 2: and did use it for Book number five a lot

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Speaker 2: as a research assistant. I was probably working with it

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Speaker 2: for I don't know, two hours a day just on research,

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Speaker 2: like firstly in terms of uncovering new studies and using

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Speaker 2: a combination of consensus dot app, which is fantastic at

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Speaker 2: uncovering academic research when you know what keywords to type in,

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Speaker 2: but then also using deep research on I think I'd

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Speaker 2: mainly go to perplexity Gemini and chat GPT with sort.

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Speaker 1: Of perplexid research for book writing and actually saw something

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Speaker 1: you shared recently and talking about that, and I was

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Speaker 1: it made me I used the same thing with flexisd

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Speaker 1: research book research really good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, also if I Gemini's deep research is really good

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Speaker 2: as well, better than chat JPT I found. But then,

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's so much verification that needs to be

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Speaker 2: done when you're using AI for research. And even I

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Speaker 2: found when you feed it a PDF and say, ask

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Speaker 2: it to summarize the results or the statistical analysis, even

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Speaker 2: though there are numbers there, like, you still have to

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Speaker 2: verify everything. Even like when you're feeding it that it's

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Speaker 2: still hallucinating. I find sometimes I.

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Speaker 1: Think that's skepticalness is really important and you need that,

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Speaker 1: and that's judgment. So you kind of we're both learning

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Speaker 1: that skill as we're doing it. So people listening to

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Speaker 1: this want to figure out how to get better this skill.

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Speaker 1: Use AI as much as you can, but don't believe

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Speaker 1: everything it sets. Double check it, you know, figure out

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Speaker 1: if it's correct. Fascinating to think then, So then I've

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Speaker 1: had several I was recently back and forward to Perth

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Speaker 1: from Sydney three times three weeks, so it was about

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Speaker 1: thirty hours on the plane just back and forward and

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Speaker 1: it was all writing times.

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Speaker 3: It was actually excellent because.

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Speaker 1: I love writing on planes, and even though there is

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Speaker 1: internet on the plane, I kind of didn't use Internet

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Speaker 1: because I want to be in a bit of my

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Speaker 1: own bubble. And that was fascinating because that was thirty

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Speaker 1: hours without AI, thirty hours without my research assistant, and

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Speaker 1: it was a different type of writing. That for me

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Speaker 1: was really important because it was me doing a bit

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Speaker 1: of the storytelling, a bit of the crafting, a bit

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Speaker 1: of the joy that I kind of get from doing that.

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Speaker 1: Whereas when I think you're hearing you haven't you know

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Speaker 1: an AI prompt next to you, there is the temptation

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Speaker 1: to just constantly ask it questions and constantly kind of

441
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: almost become a bit too factual and lose some of

442
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 1: the creative side of that. So part of colaborative intelligence

443
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 1: is knowing when you should use AI, when you shouldn't

444
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 1: use AI, how to use it best, and iman the

445
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,199
Speaker 1: fact that you shared on I was on LinkedIn recently.

446
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 1: Around these are all the different tools that are using

447
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 1: for different things. That is an example of collaborative intelligence.

448
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 2: I find that one of the ways that most of

449
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,920
Speaker 2: my workflows have changed when I think about how I'm

450
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: interacting with even just with my computer, is that I reckon,

451
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 2: Like with the time that I'm in putting stuff into

452
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 2: the computer, I reckon I'm probably about fifty percent voice

453
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 2: and fifty percent typing, whereas, like I would say, a

454
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 2: year ago, I was one hundred percent typing. And I

455
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 2: find because one of my pet hates is receiving an

456
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 2: AI written email that's had minimal or no human judgment,

457
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 2: which is becoming very very common, I find it. I

458
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 2: loath that it just makes me want to vomit on

459
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 2: the email. But I find that, you know, because we

460
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 2: work with thousands of people around training them on AI skills.

461
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 2: It's probably the number one use case where if people

462
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 2: are using AI for anything, it's writing emails, which is

463
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,439
Speaker 2: then problematic because you know, they're generally pretty basic skills.

464
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: If people just have one use case for using AI.

465
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 2: And so my kind of go to now unless it's

466
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 2: quite a long and complex email, and I am using

467
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 2: AI to work with me on what I want to

468
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,439
Speaker 2: say or to make what I want to say more succinct. Generally,

469
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 2: my workflow this is just with emails as well as

470
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 2: some other forms of writing, is I will just use

471
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: whisper flow, which I press the function key on my

472
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 2: computer and I just speak the email and then I

473
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 2: edit it and it sounds like me, it's what I

474
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 2: want to say. I think I've learned to speak fairly succinctly,

475
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 2: but it could still be more succinct, and that is

476
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 2: such a change. And I feel like with collaborative intelligence

477
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 2: and how we communicate with other humans, a lot of

478
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 2: that is how do we bring some humanness into what

479
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 2: we are trying to say to other people. So I

480
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 2: love that you're still doing the writing and that's a

481
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 2: hard line for you, and I hear that a lot

482
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 2: from people that are sort of writers first, If that

483
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 2: makes sense.

484
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting that I think it's important that everyone

485
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: has different lines and that the lines might change over time.

486
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: But right now, I think so much when I write,

487
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: and I think I've trained my brain to think at

488
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: the speed in which I type, and I edit in

489
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: my head as I type, and I can't move words around,

490
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: and that's how I process my thoughts and my emotions,

491
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: and me that's really useful. I find talking as a

492
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: really interesting way of like it's almost if you think

493
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 1: about divergent and convergent thinking for me, talking for me

494
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: is kind of divergent because all these ideas come out,

495
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: and then for me, writing is convergent when I kind

496
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: of like decide no. That's my take on this, And

497
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,439
Speaker 1: I love the fact that when I do write, it

498
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: helps the world make sense, it helps me make sense,

499
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 1: it helps my own thoughts make sense. I find all

500
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: of that really important.

501
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 2: So let's talk about skill number four, which is unlearning,

502
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 2: which is kind of counterintuitive because organizations spend a lot

503
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 2: of money on learning and development, so what is unlearning?

504
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: So this is one of these skills that is probably

505
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: the most ethereal of them all. It's probably the hardest

506
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: to actually figure out how you really upskill in it.

507
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: But the concept of unlearning is the fact that things

508
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: are changing so much.

509
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 3: Every time you look.

510
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: There is a new tool, there's new ways of working.

511
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: I think all of us are feeling in this acceleration

512
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: that's happening. And unlearning is about the ability to forget

513
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: what you think you know and really to be able

514
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: to roll with the punches about what is coming up next.

515
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 1: So it's a really interesting skill and a lot of

516
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 1: it is really a mindset shift, which is that some

517
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: of these things are new and some of them a

518
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: bit scary, and are you going to see them as

519
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: an opportunity or again see it as a threat.

520
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 2: So, as humans, we're programmed to resist unlearning. We've got

521
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 2: biases like confirmation bias, which you know, really put us

522
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: looking for things that confirm our worldviews. So, Tim, I'm curious,

523
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 2: do you have any habit or strategies that you have

524
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 2: to deliberately unlearn in your own life.

525
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really hard one to teach someone how

526
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: to unlearn, and I think it's something that we should,

527
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: number one, be conscious of when we come across new things.

528
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: Am I just holding onto the old way of doing things?

529
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: Because that's all I know.

530
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 3: Something that's really helped me is I am a proud optimist.

531
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: I consider myself I think even on my LinkedIn profile

532
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: it says I'm an optimist. It loves thinking about big

533
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: ideas and it's something I really got.

534
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 3: From my parents and my dad in particular.

535
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: And I love that because it means when I see

536
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: something new, or if I see a bit of an

537
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: obstacle in my way, I generally tend to think about

538
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: the positive that comes from that. And unlearning is really

539
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: a bit of an optimistic character trait, because it's about

540
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: looking at something and instead of thinking, oh God, I

541
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: need to now learn this whole new thing all over

542
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: because I thought I knew how something worked. Unlearning is

543
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: the ability to really focus on what the positives are

544
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: in figuring something new out for the first time, and

545
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: unlearning the way you've.

546
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 3: Done it in the past.

547
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 2: Now I've saved your most favorite skill for last, which

548
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 2: is conflict manager. Tell me why is this your favorite one?

549
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 4: Tim?

550
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I know it's not fair to have favorite skills.

551
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 1: It's like choosing a favorite child. However, I do have

552
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: a favorite skill, and I think it's my favorite because

553
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: it's something that I have historically not been the best at.

554
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 1: It's something that I think most of us are historically

555
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 1: not the best at. And it's conflict. It's learning what

556
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: happens when two humans, in all of our valuabilities and

557
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: all of our expectations and hopes and intentions and miscommunications,

558
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: getting a room together and we conflict with each other.

559
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: And it's something that I've been thinking about a lot.

560
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: So I've spent the last few years researching, traveling the world,

561
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: writing about this, speaking to people from professors at Oxford

562
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: University through to producers of The Real Housewives to try

563
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: and understand what conflict is and how we can be

564
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: better at it. And the reason it's important is that

565
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: conflict is everywhere we look, particularly in a workplace. It's

566
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: estimated that we spend about three hours a week, every

567
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: single week, dealing with conflict, so it has this real cost,

568
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: Yet most of us are really bad at it. Most

569
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: of us are not taught skills. Most of us are

570
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: conflict avoiders somewhere between sixty to ninety percent of people,

571
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: depend on which study you look at. And the reason

572
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: why we do that is because it is hard, and

573
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: it's messy and it's difficult. And the way that technology

574
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: is going, we are interacting more and more on screens

575
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: with computers, with AI and we're removing a lot of

576
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: that conflict that exists in our life. So it's one

577
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: of these skills that I think with where everything is going,

578
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: if you fast forward through the next ten years, the

579
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: ability to interact with other humans is going to be

580
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: something that's going to be really prized within not only

581
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: the workplace, but within your life.

582
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: So you've done all this research into getting better at

583
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 2: conflict and you've spoken to. I mean, I can't believe

584
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 2: you've spoken to a producer from The Real Housewives. I

585
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 2: mean that would have been gold. Tell me, like, what

586
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: would have been one or two of the most powerful

587
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: strategies that you've learned for helping someone like me who

588
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 2: is not great at conflict and who tries to avoid

589
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 2: it but knows that that is not a good strategy, Like,

590
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: what can I do tim to get better at it?

591
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: Yes, there's a bunch of things that you can do,

592
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: and number one is to have a new book coming

593
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: out and doesn't come out to October, so you might

594
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: need to wait until then continue to be.

595
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 3: Bad at conflict until the book comes out.

596
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: No, I think one of the best things you can

597
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: do is be aware of what your conflict style is.

598
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: So generally there's two types of people. There's conflict seekers

599
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: and conflict devoids. And most people tend to form evoll

600
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: into conflict devoids. And it's because conflict seekers are a

601
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: rare breed of people who have sometimes unhealthily led into that.

602
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: There is this middle ground of people who are potentially

603
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: not conflict avoids or conflict seekers, but somewhere in the

604
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: middle of the two of them. So I think having

605
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: clarity around what type of person you are in conflict.

606
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: Are you someone who avoids conflict or seeks conflict? That

607
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: is really important. Knowing where your conflict sits is really important,

608
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: Knowing where you want to.

609
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 3: Get to and knowing how to get there.

610
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: They are some of the big questions that I have

611
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: been really thinking about for the last few years, and

612
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: it all basically comes down to when you're Amigdala takes over.

613
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: When you're in conflict and you have this emotions rising

614
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: inside you, you really have to try to have some

615
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: kind of clarity, some kind of intellectual awareness, some kind

616
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: of understanding of what's happening to you. Because unless you

617
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: can actually manually override that, you're not going to get anywhere.

618
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 1: So the biggest piece of advice I have is to

619
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: really just try and understand conflict a little bit more.

620
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: That will serve you in measurable ways.

621
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 2: Can I ask, like, what's one thing that you've started

622
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 2: to do or that you've found yourself doing in your

623
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 2: own life when you find you have conflict with your

624
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 2: husband or friends or people that you work with, Like,

625
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 2: what's the behavior that you've seen shift It's fascinating.

626
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: The more I understand it, the more I'm able to

627
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: find different strategies. And I'll give you one really simple

628
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: strategy here, which is as I've spent the last few

629
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: years thinking about this topic, and I went and studied

630
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: to become a nationally credited mediator.

631
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 3: As part of it, I traveled the world. I've spoken

632
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 3: to dozens and dozens of people in this topic, and.

633
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,479
Speaker 1: I realized that there's actually one really powerful word in

634
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: conflict that actually gets a little bit forgotten, and the

635
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: word is how So. If you can put how into

636
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: a sentence when you're in conflict with somebody, it's actually

637
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: the most powerful word that you can use. And the

638
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: reason for that is that how forces someone else to

639
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: have empathy for you. So I'll give you an example

640
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: of that is, when you are in a complex situation

641
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: with somebody, Let's say it's your partner, or it's somebody

642
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: that you work closely with, if you can frame a

643
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: question with how so, how am I meant to resolve this?

644
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: How can we come to a solution together here? How

645
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: can I use these tools in order to try and

646
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: get this situation from A to B?

647
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 3: Whatever it is?

648
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: As soon as you say, how you're inviting the other

649
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: person to co create some of the answer to it,

650
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: and that simple trick of forced empathy is actually really,

651
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: really amazing. So that's something that I use every day now.

652
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 2: I love that, Tim. I am going to think about

653
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 2: that and I'm going to put that into practice. Now.

654
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: For listeners that have heard these five skills and they're like,

655
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 2: that's great, But what's just like one thing that I

656
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: should start doing today to make myself more promotable this year,

657
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: what advice would you give them?

658
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think sometimes when you listen to wonderful podcasts

659
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: like this, you can get a bit overwhelmed with thinking,

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00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: what are.

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00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 3: These skills that these people are.

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00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: Wrapping in on about and how can I actually apply

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00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 1: them to my life. My advice would be to listen

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00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: back to what these five skills were. You don't need

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00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: to improve all of them all at once. That is

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00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: not what it's going to be. But listen to these

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00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: five skills and we'll just run through them here just

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00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: so everyone understands. The first one was judgment, the second

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00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 1: one is storytelling, the third one's collaborative intelligence, the fourth

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00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: one is unlearning, and the fifth one is conflict management.

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00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,240
Speaker 1: So my advice is, listen to those five skills, think

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00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: which of them do you instinctively, naturally, join, optimistically want

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00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,439
Speaker 1: to get better at, and then think of what's one

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00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: thing you can do in that space. So that's I

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00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: think a really simple way of not getting overwhelmed by

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00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 1: all of these and just thinking, Wow, storytelling is interesting.

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00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: I might just look up a couple of frameworks and

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00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: storytelling and try and do that. Conflict's interesting. I might

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00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: think about conflict and try and understand that more. So,

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00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: just just choose one of them and one simple.

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00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 3: Step that you can do.

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00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 2: I love that. Tim, thank you for coming back on

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00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 2: How I Work. And obviously you're going to come back

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00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 2: when your book is out to deep dive into the

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00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 2: area of conflict, which I personally find so interesting and

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00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 2: I'm sure listeners are absolutely going to want to know

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00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: more about that. So Tim, thank you, Thank you, thank

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00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 2: you for coming on How I Work.

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00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 3: Thank you, Mantha, thank you for having me again.

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00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 2: So my advice if you're contemplating taking action on all

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00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 2: five skills is just don't don't try to improve all

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00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 2: five skills at once. Just pick one the next time

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00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 2: you're about to hit send on something AI drafted, or

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00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: you feel that flicker of tension in a tricky conversation,

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00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 2: Just pause and ask yourself, which skill am I practicing

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00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 2: right now? Or could I practice right now? Is this

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00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 2: a moment for judgment or for storytelling, or maybe for

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00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 2: using that tiny powerful word how tick one skill, try

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00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 2: one small shift, and I'll see you next week on

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00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 2: How I Work. If you like today's show, make sure

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00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 2: you hit follow on your podcast app to be alerted

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00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 2: when new episodes drop.

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Speaker 4: How I Work was recorded on the traditional land of

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Speaker 4: the Warrangery people, part of the Cooler Nation