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Speaker 1: And well joining me on the line right now from

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Speaker 1: the Nursing and Midway Free Federation here in the Northern

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Speaker 1: Terra Trea, it is Caath Hatcher.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Kath, good morning. How are you

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Speaker 2: not too bad?

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Speaker 1: Kath?

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Speaker 2: I know that. Well.

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Speaker 1: Our nurses, as I would imagine, are incredibly busy at

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Speaker 1: the moment. We've got a code yellow in place at

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Speaker 1: both the Palmerston Regional Hospital and also the Royal Darwin Hospital.

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Speaker 2: What are they telling you at the moment.

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Speaker 3: The members are very grateful when a code yellow is

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Speaker 3: called because more staff are found and redirected from other

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Speaker 3: areas to where it's the most busiest. So the staff

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Speaker 3: in say some of the wards and the emergency department

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Speaker 3: and perhaps in theater, they are very grateful that a

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Speaker 3: code yellow is called. They get that extra help, and

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Speaker 3: they're not so happy when they are almost to stretching

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Speaker 3: beyond capacity and there is not a code that's called.

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Speaker 3: That's when they're very upset. You know, they need that

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Speaker 3: extra help and they're not getting it. So it's a

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Speaker 3: combination of all of you know, there's too many patients

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Speaker 3: in the hospital, there's too many waiting in the emergency department,

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Speaker 3: needing admission and there's no leeway for flexibility with beds

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Speaker 3: in the main block of Royal Darwin and those that

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Speaker 3: are needing admission from the Palmerston Hospital go to Royal

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Speaker 3: Darwin Hospital. So it's a big cascade of problems and cats.

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Speaker 1: Is they telling you right now? I mean, is there

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Speaker 1: double bunking going on? Have we got people in hallways?

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Speaker 1: What are they telling you?

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure about the people in hallways, but there

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Speaker 3: would be the definitely double bunking that only happens when

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Speaker 3: they get really maximum in their numbers through emergency. They

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Speaker 3: can keep a better eye on them if they're within

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Speaker 3: the cubicles in the emergency department then actually waiting out

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Speaker 3: in the waiting room. So yes, they're all getting catered

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Speaker 3: and looked after, but that fluctuation of trying to get

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Speaker 3: patients out that are hopefully able and will enough to

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Speaker 3: go home for those to be admitted up into the

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Speaker 3: main block of the hospital. So you know, most hospitals

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Speaker 3: around Australia try to run at about the ninety to

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Speaker 3: ninety five percent capacity, but for the last four or

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Speaker 3: five years at least Royal Dalin's been running somewhere between

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Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty to one hundred and forty percent capacity,

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Speaker 3: so it's not giving any leeway there of fluctuating up

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Speaker 3: to fluctuating back down to when they need to wow.

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Speaker 1: So somewhere between one hundred and twenty and one hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty percent for the last four or five years.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so it's been a problem before COVID. It definitely

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Speaker 3: got more of a problem. Well, probably a little bit

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Speaker 3: more stabilized through COVID. They cut down a lot of

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Speaker 3: elective surgeries, but it's still you know, they're trying to

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Speaker 3: keep the electric service sorry, elected surgery going after you know,

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Speaker 3: COVID down in their spikes. But then you've got the

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Speaker 3: other end where you've got lots of people coming in

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Speaker 3: whatever problem it is, alcohol, other drugs, or any other concerns,

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Speaker 3: needing ambition, and you've got also elective surgery happening. And

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Speaker 3: then you know you've got too many age care and

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Speaker 3: disabilities within the hospital occupying acute beds and they should

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Speaker 3: be in other facilities. So it's a big compound.

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Speaker 1: Kas can I ask in terms of the numbers of

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Speaker 1: nurses that we've got right now? You and I have

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Speaker 1: spoken on numerous acas.

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Speaker 2: About their not being enough. How are those numbers tracking currently.

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Speaker 3: I haven't had an update since we last talked, but

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Speaker 3: approximately across the top end of one hundred and thirty

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Speaker 3: full time equivalent down and I wouldn't be surprised if

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Speaker 3: that's maybe you know, a little bit more than that now,

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Speaker 3: maybe up to one hundred and fifty. But they are

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Speaker 3: getting fulfilled. But they're getting fulfilled some of those positions

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Speaker 3: with agencies. The agency nurses are you know, having six

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Speaker 3: or eight week contracts. They're coming from into state or

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Speaker 3: within the state and they're willing to work or wanting

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Speaker 3: to work where they want to for a certain amount

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Speaker 3: of time. So the government is paying paying a lot

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Speaker 3: for nurses and midwives, but that's because of agency staff. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So but still realistically one hundred and thirty full time

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Speaker 1: staff down, but that could be up to one hundred FIEL.

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Speaker 1: That must be tough on our current staff in terms

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Speaker 1: of their workloads.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then when you incorporate the Central Australia area

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Speaker 3: and all the remote areas, probably looking at between three

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Speaker 3: to three hundred and fifty full time equivalent down right

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Speaker 3: across the territory. And that's just not in the urban

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Speaker 3: areas that you know, urban in the community rule and

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Speaker 3: remote as well, and everyone's working to their absolute maximum.

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Speaker 3: Plus they're all doing double ships over times. On their

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Speaker 3: days off, they're not getting that relief of a work

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Speaker 3: life balance. They're not able to recuperate their energy on

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Speaker 3: their days off because they're doing extra shifts.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it is tough going.

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Speaker 1: And you know, our nurses by their very nature are

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Speaker 1: caring and do a phenomenal job. And you know, to

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Speaker 1: think of them being that understaffed, did it be really tough?

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Speaker 3: Cas?

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Speaker 2: Can I ask you?

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Speaker 1: Know, you and I have spoken honestly lot over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years about the issues every time there

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Speaker 1: is a code yellow and every time that that staff

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Speaker 1: are understress. We know our nurses do a tremendous job,

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Speaker 1: as do all of the other staff at the hospital

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Speaker 1: and support roles, doctors, everyone, But you know, it seems

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Speaker 1: to be that it's the same issues every time that

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Speaker 1: we speak. You know, it seems to be that we've

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Speaker 1: got seventy odd beds that are taken up by age

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Speaker 1: care patients who should be in a more appropriate facility.

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Speaker 1: It seems as though we're understaffed. You know, it seems

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Speaker 1: as though the issues aren't changing. What needs to happen Cash.

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Speaker 3: I think you know there was a problem before COVID,

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Speaker 3: but COVID's just made it will come to the top

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Speaker 3: and like a big pimple in it. Now it's first

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Speaker 3: and the people that perhaps were going to stay on

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Speaker 3: another couple of years and then retire, they've retired early.

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Speaker 3: All those that are up and coming and they've come

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Speaker 3: through their graduate program and realize how busy and consistent

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Speaker 3: and absolutely flat chat they are with every shift, so

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Speaker 3: they're getting flogged. They see that as I'm not sure

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Speaker 3: that I want to continue my career in nursing or

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Speaker 3: midware free, so they go back to university and maybe

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Speaker 3: choose another career path, or they stop working to sort

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Speaker 3: themselves out of what they're going to do. Those that

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Speaker 3: maybe we're going to retire in ten years time may

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Speaker 3: have taken a break for a while because they're burnt

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Speaker 3: out and we can't just put new graduates into the

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Speaker 3: specialty areas like emergency department, theater, ICU, renal areas like that.

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Speaker 3: They need that extra support and education and extra education

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Speaker 3: on top of what they've already done in the three

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Speaker 3: years in their university so we do have a bottom heavy,

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Speaker 3: fantastic new graduates coming through and lots of up and

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Speaker 3: coming novice nurses and midwives, but we just don't have

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Speaker 3: that real experience and the mid range there at the moment,

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Speaker 3: they've either decided not to continue working in nursing because

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Speaker 3: they're fatigued and they burnt out, or you know, they

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Speaker 3: might have some mental health problems and they've retired early

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Speaker 3: because they just can't do the clinical physical exhaustion anymore.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katz.

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Speaker 1: Now, in terms of the issues that we see with alcohol,

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Speaker 1: and I know you mentioned alcohol and other drugs just

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Speaker 1: a little while ago. We did ask Robert Parker about

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Speaker 1: this earlier this morning. The opposition has made claims the

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Speaker 1: lifting of the alcohol band with the stronger futures legislation

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Speaker 1: that it has added extra pressure to our healthcare system.

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Speaker 1: Robert Parker said, well, it is a fact of certainty.

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Speaker 2: What's your take on this? Do you think that it

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Speaker 2: has made a difference.

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Speaker 3: Well, I haven't heard any report backs from our members

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Speaker 3: or any statistics, but I wouldn't be surprised that it

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Speaker 3: has increased the impact with statistics throughout the territory. And

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Speaker 3: it's always been a problem right from you know, forty

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Speaker 3: years ago when I started nursing, it was a problem,

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Speaker 3: but it has escalated huge over those four decades. And

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Speaker 3: alcohol and definitely other drugs are a problem, and the

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Speaker 3: continual use causes mental health issues, and they're needing more

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Speaker 3: you know, in patient facilities in the mental health disease sorry,

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Speaker 3: mental health units when they've you know, detopped from the

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Speaker 3: alcohol or the other drug drugs. So definitely, I wouldn't

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Speaker 3: be surprised if that has increased.

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Speaker 2: Well, Cath Hatcher, I always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything else we should be aware of before

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Speaker 1: I let you?

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Speaker 3: No? That's about it, except you know, we're still at

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Speaker 3: the table with our negotiations with the enterprise agreement, and

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Speaker 3: we're trying to get the increase of two percent up

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Speaker 3: to a higher percentage that may hopefully meet the CPI

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Speaker 3: which is six point one. And all of our counter

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Speaker 3: parts within other states are getting much better outcomes from

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Speaker 3: the government with a decent enterprise agreement, but we're all

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Speaker 3: still at the table negotiating that.

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Speaker 1: Well, Kath, I hope that you know that the government

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Speaker 1: does come to the table and sort something out, otherwise

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Speaker 1: we're going to run the risk of losing more of

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Speaker 1: our nurses I would suspect to interstate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely definitely.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Kath Hatcher, I always appreciate your time. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so very much for having a chat with me this morning.

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Speaker 3: You're very welcome, Katie, thank you