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Speaker 1: Well, it was certainly another busy day in Parliament yesterday

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Speaker 1: with legislation passing to curb the issues that we've seen

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Speaker 1: when it comes to public drinking. The Speaker of the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territories Legislative Assembly, Robin Lamley, joins me on the line.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Robin.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 2: Robin.

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Speaker 1: In your time in parliament, have you ever seen a

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Speaker 1: government work so quickly to pass legislation.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't recall any government delivering as quickly as

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Speaker 3: what this government has been over the last four days

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Speaker 3: in parliament last week and yesterday. It's a credit to them.

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Speaker 2: They seem to.

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Speaker 1: Have listened to what territorians told them prior to the

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Speaker 1: election and then as a result of the of the

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Speaker 1: election and the results.

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Speaker 2: That we all saw flowing through.

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Speaker 1: And look, I really hope that the changes that they're

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Speaker 1: making do have a big impact. But even things like

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Speaker 1: that public drinking, you know, we were being told up

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Speaker 1: until a couple of weeks or you know, a couple

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Speaker 1: of months before the election, Katie, the two kilometer rule

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Speaker 1: is still in place by the former government, and well,

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Speaker 1: you know, now we see that it certainly wasn't and

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Speaker 1: that it wasn't an offense for people to be drinking

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Speaker 1: in public. It was an offense if they were then

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Speaker 1: you know, doing other things wrong in public. But it

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Speaker 1: just seems like Leah and the government are listening to

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Speaker 1: what territorians want.

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Speaker 3: Look and their approach is very regimented and very focused,

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Speaker 3: and I think people will enjoy that. They as everyone

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Speaker 3: has said, they have been voted in with a clean

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Speaker 3: mandate to do exactly what they're doing, and they're doing

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Speaker 3: it without any face, very very efficiently and as promised.

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Speaker 3: So it's a refreshing change. It is early days, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and it remains to be seen how effective all this

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Speaker 3: legislation will bear, but it is a very encouraging start

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Speaker 3: to their four year tam.

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Speaker 1: Robin, what's the feedback being like? Just with your hat

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Speaker 1: on as the local member for our alum, what's the

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Speaker 1: feedback bean like in Alice Springs. I know you've been

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Speaker 1: up in Darwen, but from the electorate in relation to

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Speaker 1: a lot of these changes, people.

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Speaker 3: Are optimistic and hopeful, definitely, but we are facing a

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Speaker 3: crime crisis. Cially in Alice Springs. Nothing has changed on

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Speaker 3: the ground. In fact, as the days get longer and warmer,

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Speaker 3: things are deteriorating as they always do it this time

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Speaker 3: of year. So there will be an enormous amount of

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Speaker 3: pressure on this government, on the police to stem the

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Speaker 3: usual deterioration that we see at this time of year.

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Speaker 3: And if that is at all possible, Katie, I mean, realistically,

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Speaker 3: how can you turn this all around in a matter

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Speaker 3: of weeks and months. It's impossible, But let's see what happens.

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Speaker 3: I've said all along, even before I became Speaker. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to give them the benefit of the doubt and

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Speaker 3: give them time to bring about the changes that they promised.

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Speaker 1: Now, Robin, I know that yesterday well, we've spoken to

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Speaker 1: the opposition Lena Selena Ubo about the fact that she

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Speaker 1: was going to be introducing an MPI on domestic violence.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't the only moves being made by the

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Speaker 1: cross Bench. As I understand it, Independent mla Ynya mark

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Speaker 1: Iola gave notice of emotion that he's going to be

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Speaker 1: calling on the COLP government to commit to the Aboriginal

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Speaker 1: Justice Agreement. I also understand that Justine Davis, the Independent

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Speaker 1: for Johnson, has given notice for emotion of her own,

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Speaker 1: calling on the COLP government to fully implement the recommendations

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Speaker 1: of the July twenty twenty four Report into Voluntary assisted

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Speaker 1: Dying in the Northern Territory. Robin for our listeners, what's

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Speaker 1: the process now? You know when they do bring on

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Speaker 1: emotion like this.

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Speaker 3: So on every Wednesday afternoon from three pm through to

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Speaker 3: seven pm, we have what's called General Business and during

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Speaker 3: that four hour period, once a week in Parliament, the

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Speaker 3: cross benches have an opportunity to put their motions forward.

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Speaker 3: So today we have a motion put forward by the

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Speaker 3: Member for Johnston, Justine Davis, emotion concerning improving decision making, integrity,

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Speaker 3: transparency and accountability in our parliament. So that will kick

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Speaker 3: off at three o'clock that debate. If it finishes during

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Speaker 3: the four hours, which it doesn't tend to, we'll go

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Speaker 3: on to another notice from the Opposition leader concerning the

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Speaker 3: economic Development, Development and Infrastructure program from the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 3: So the cross bench and the Opposition can decide what

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Speaker 3: motions they want to book put forward. They give notice

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Speaker 3: of those motions and there's a strict order of how

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Speaker 3: they are dealt with. But it's only once a week

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Speaker 3: for four hour that's quite precious.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, So you want to be making sure that

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Speaker 1: they're choosing the most important issue I guess, or the

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Speaker 1: thing that they see as the most pressing.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's right, Robin.

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Speaker 1: I understand as well that throughout the week or last

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Speaker 1: week that a petition was tabled to Parliament, I know

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Speaker 1: that you'd sort of had to step away as a

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Speaker 1: speaker to table the petition calling on the Finocchio government

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Speaker 1: to suspend gender transition treatments as well as commission an

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Speaker 1: independent inquiry into finding a scientific approach to treat to

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Speaker 1: treat gender dysorphia.

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Speaker 2: Robin, is, was this one that was brought to.

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Speaker 1: By the Christian Lobby or who was it?

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Speaker 2: Exactly?

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Speaker 3: So? During the lead up to the election, all candidates,

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Speaker 3: from my understanding were approached by the Australian Christian Lobby

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Speaker 3: and this was one of their key issues, looking into

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Speaker 3: gen transitioning gender dysphoria and the medical and surgical treatments

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Speaker 3: that are available in the Northern Territory at the moment

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Speaker 3: for children wanting to take up this therapy. And the

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Speaker 3: head of the Christian Lobby is a constituent of Mind,

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Speaker 3: Nicholas Lay, and I've had lots of conversations with him

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Speaker 3: and as a part of those conversations he asked me

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Speaker 3: to table this petition in Parliament, which I in essence support.

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Speaker 3: I think there's lots of reasons why we should be

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Speaker 3: concerned about children having puberty taking puberty blockers colloquially known

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Speaker 3: as puberty blockers to transition to a different gender. And

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Speaker 3: this is based on primarily a massive report that was

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Speaker 3: conducted in the UK only completed earlier this year, which

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Speaker 3: triggered the UK government to block or stop children being

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Speaker 3: prescribed puberty blockers by medical providers outside their public health system.

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Speaker 3: Children can continue to be a part of clinical trials

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Speaker 3: with puberty blockers, but they were so concerned about the

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Speaker 3: content of what is called the CAST Report Independent Review

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Speaker 3: of Gender Identity Services for Children and Young People, that

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Speaker 3: they essentially stopped GPS and private medical providers from prescribing

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Speaker 3: puberty blockers for children. And this has triggered movement right

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Speaker 3: across Europe. From what I understand, lots of countries are

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Speaker 3: now looking into it. And the two main reasons why

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Speaker 3: this big inquiry was conducted by doctor Hillary Cass, a

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Speaker 3: reputable pediatrician from the UK, is because there has been

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Speaker 3: an explosion of children wanting to access gender affirming treatments,

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Speaker 3: that's what they call it. And also there's been an

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Speaker 3: increase in young adults now wanting to sue health providers

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Speaker 3: and the NHS in the UK because they believe that

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Speaker 3: they were able to make a decision about changing their

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Speaker 3: gender when they were children, and on reflection, they believe

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Speaker 3: that they were not in a position to make such

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Speaker 3: a life changing, literally life changing decisions. So it's a

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Speaker 3: really interesting topic, Katie, and I do not profess to

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Speaker 3: be an expert.

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Speaker 2: There are people out there are.

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Speaker 3: More knowledgeable than me. I do emphathize with children that

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Speaker 3: do feel confusion around their gender identity and the families

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Speaker 3: that are trying to support these kids. But I think

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Speaker 3: it is worth having a discussion in the more than

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Speaker 3: territory around exactly what we're doing in this space.

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Speaker 1: I've got no idea about it, and so I agree.

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Speaker 1: I'd be interested to see the cash report, and particularly

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Speaker 1: as you've been saying that, you know, with a high

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Speaker 1: number of young people across Europe, you know, going through

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Speaker 1: that treatment and now in some cases wanting to then

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Speaker 1: ensue those who've provided that treatment.

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Speaker 3: That's right. The CAST report concluded that there's not enough

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Speaker 3: evidence to support the safety or clinical effectiveness of puberty

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Speaker 3: blockers to make the treatment routinely available at this time.

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Speaker 3: And look, it's compelling reading. And I know that there's

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Speaker 3: lots of critics out there of this particular report. Queensland

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Speaker 3: since done their own inquiry which had a very medical

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Speaker 3: focus and said that there's no pressure on children to

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Speaker 3: transition and change their gender and there's nothing to see here. Look,

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Speaker 3: you know you can find a report to affirm any

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Speaker 3: position you take on anything in the world. But reading

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Speaker 3: the Cash Report, which has been embraced in the UK,

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Speaker 3: respected for its thoroughness and very far reaching extent, they

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Speaker 3: talk to many, many families and children that experienced gender

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Speaker 3: dysphoria the UK, have come to the conclusion that a

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Speaker 3: lot of work needs to be done. The evidence isn't there,

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Speaker 3: the structures aren't there. That pretty much the government's exposing

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Speaker 3: themselves to a whole world of grief in terms of litigation,

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Speaker 3: not to mention the pain and suffering of children perhaps

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Speaker 3: making the wrong decisions.

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Speaker 1: Robert can I ask the biggest question for me on

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Speaker 1: this topic is at what age is this treatment being allowed?

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Speaker 2: Do you know in the Northern.

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Speaker 1: Territory and then I guess my further questions are, and

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Speaker 1: I might have to try and get somebody on is

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Speaker 1: then you know what's the process? Is it a difficult

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Speaker 1: process for people to be able to go down this path.

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Speaker 1: I've got adult friends who have transitioned, but they are

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Speaker 1: adults and so you know, their journey is obviously very different.

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Speaker 1: So my question really is at what age? Because you know,

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Speaker 1: up until ten some kids want to be unicorns.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's right, And it's interesting that a lot of

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Speaker 3: the people who are advocating for children to transition to

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Speaker 3: a different gender are the same people saying that ten

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Speaker 3: year olds and twelve year olds and even up to

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Speaker 3: fourteen year olds aren't responsible for their criminal behavior. They

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Speaker 3: don't know right from wrong, but they can somehow argue

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Speaker 3: that they can make a decision around transitioning their gender.

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Speaker 3: But the answer to your question around the Northern Territory

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Speaker 3: from my perspective is I don't know what the process

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Speaker 3: is and for that reason I support this petition that

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Speaker 3: someone takes a very preliminary, very simple inquiry undertakes of

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Speaker 3: inquiring what is happening in this space in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 3: The Australian Christian Mobby Nicholas Lay who lives in Alice Springs.

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Speaker 3: He tried to get information from the Northern Territory Health

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Speaker 3: Department around the statistics and was not given that information

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Speaker 3: through freedom of information, but he has sent me stats

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Speaker 3: from Victoria which are quite staggering. There's children a substantial

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Speaker 3: number of children as young as three years of age

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Speaker 3: that have accessed the gender services of the Royal Children

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Speaker 3: Children's Hospital in Melbourne of February twenty twenty four, so

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Speaker 3: as young as three through to fifteen. But obviously as

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Speaker 3: you get older there's more people in the early teens

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Speaker 3: that are trying to access these services. But Katie, the

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Speaker 3: demand for these services is apparently growing exponentially and I

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Speaker 3: find that curious and that's what triggered. As I said before,

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Speaker 3: one of the triggers for their CAST review in the

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Speaker 3: UK is that they couldn't meet the demand for children

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Speaker 3: wanting to change their sex and experiencing gender dysphoria. The

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Speaker 3: CAST report basically says, look, let's left back off puberty

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Speaker 3: blockers and let's concentrate on psychological services around and doing

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Speaker 3: really thorough holistic assessments of these kids and trying to

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Speaker 3: look at all their issues rather than just focusing on

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Speaker 3: transition and the other thing, Katie, Which is really interesting.

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Speaker 3: Something I read last night is that gender dysphoria. Most

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Speaker 3: people who experience gender dysphoria are binary non binary. They

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Speaker 3: don't want to wreck you be recognized as male or female,

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Speaker 3: whereas puberty block blockers make you one or the other,

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Speaker 3: which kind of contradicts the fact that most children feel

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Speaker 3: a sense of non binary. Well, I don't know that

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Speaker 3: I using the right language.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure in an area.

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Speaker 3: That we should talk about in the Northern Territory. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: we're a very small jurisdiction. Yousel'll be talking about a

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Speaker 3: handful of kids that are accessing gender affirming services or

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Speaker 3: therapies in the Northern Territory. But it's still warrants a

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Speaker 3: community discussion. It's not to create a better awareness around

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Speaker 3: what these kids are going through and what treatments they

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Speaker 3: are accessing.

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Speaker 1: Robin, just really quickly, I've got because I know you're

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Speaker 1: very busy this morning, as am I can see the

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Speaker 1: Corrections Commissioner out waiting for me. Just very quickly what

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Speaker 1: happens now with this petition? And I mean, really, are

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Speaker 1: you calling on the government to look at having this

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Speaker 1: discussion as the petitioners are well.

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Speaker 3: It will be referred to the Public Accounts Committee and

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Speaker 3: they will decide whether it comes back to Parliament to

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Speaker 3: be debated. That the new government have extended the amount

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Speaker 3: of time I think it was capped at sixteen minutes

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Speaker 3: in total to debate petitions in the Parliament. They've doubled

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Speaker 3: that to around thirty thirty five minutes. I will be

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Speaker 3: participating in that debate if I can, and I will

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Speaker 3: be supporting this petition. I think that if the whole

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Speaker 3: of the UK have temporarily suspended puberty blockers being used

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Speaker 3: outside of clinical trials in their country, then surely a

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Speaker 3: jurisdiction like the Northern Territory should be treading very carefully

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Speaker 3: around how we use that sort of treatment.

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Speaker 1: Well, Robin Lamley, the Independent Member for Ara lun and

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Speaker 1: also the Speaker of the North Territories Legislative Assembly, I'll

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Speaker 1: let you go. You haven't got long to get in

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Speaker 1: there and get organized for parliament. Thank you as always

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Speaker 1: for your time.

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Speaker 2: Thankstie, thank you