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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 2: once answers mew.

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Speaker 1: Just before we dive into today's podcast, a quick content warning.

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Speaker 1: Today we will be talking about all things intimacy. Well

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Speaker 1: not all things, but a lot of things intimacy related.

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Speaker 1: The content of today's podcast is not for children. It's

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Speaker 1: for grownups. So if you've got the kids in the

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Speaker 1: car or wherever you are, and you're listening, and you

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Speaker 1: usually listen to this podcast together, this is your last

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Speaker 1: chance to say, hang on, kids, this one's not for you,

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Speaker 1: because this one's just for the grown ups. I'm a

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Speaker 1: little bit nervous about this one, Kylie. Can I tell

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Speaker 1: you why? Because our son in law and our daughter

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Speaker 1: might be listening if they listen to the podcast, and

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Speaker 1: I know what we're going to be talking about today,

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Speaker 1: all right, so let's dive into it. The content warning

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Speaker 1: is taken care of. The question came through two podcasts

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Speaker 1: at Happy Families dot com dot au. They said, is

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Speaker 1: it just me? Or am I the only one who

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Speaker 1: has zero interest in being intimate with my partner?

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Speaker 3: Is it just me?

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Speaker 1: Or are other people feeling the same way?

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Speaker 2: I remember, not long after we'd had baby number three.

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Speaker 1: Just be careful with what you say here. I'm really

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Speaker 1: nervous about whether it's going to go.

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Speaker 2: Walking into the doctor's offers and said, I don't think

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Speaker 2: I care if I ever have sex again.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that changed clearly. We had three more kids,

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Speaker 1: so it did.

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Speaker 2: I said, there must be something wrong with me. He

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Speaker 2: didn't even take it up. We didn't even have a

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Speaker 2: conversation about it.

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Speaker 1: Just move on next thing. So a quick experience that

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Speaker 1: I had I was running a presentation in Sydney many

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Speaker 1: years ago. I was at a private girls school talking

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Speaker 1: to a group of well being staff. We were doing

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Speaker 1: a well being session and I was talking about some

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Speaker 1: science that shows that when you are mindful and thinking

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Speaker 1: about what you're doing, your happiness levels are higher. When

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Speaker 1: you're not mindful, that is, when you're thinking about something

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Speaker 1: other than what you're doing, your happiness levels, your well

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Speaker 1: being levels are lower. There was a research paper that

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Speaker 1: was published in highly prestigious journal Nature, and the number

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Speaker 1: one thing, the number one thing on the list highlighting

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Speaker 1: what people are doing and thinking about it at the

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Speaker 1: same time, so therefore they're feeling happy, was and then

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Speaker 1: I stopped and looked at the group of people in

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Speaker 1: front of me and said, well, what do you think

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Speaker 1: the answer is. I listened to this half a dozen

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Speaker 1: or this dozen strong group of women as they came

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Speaker 1: up with every answer they possibly could, trying to work

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Speaker 1: out what it is that you do and think about

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Speaker 1: it while you're doing the same things. Like eating, I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: people don't think about what they're eating. They just put

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Speaker 1: food in their face. Exercising like, no, people often think

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Speaker 1: about anything except the exercise because it hurts. They kept

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Speaker 1: on coming up with somebody said sleeping. I'm like, nobody's

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Speaker 1: thinking about anything when they're sleeping.

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Speaker 3: Come on.

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Speaker 1: The one thing they wouldn't say was sex. They wouldn't

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Speaker 1: say intimacy. And when I finally told them that was

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Speaker 1: the answer that was top of the list, most of

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Speaker 1: them scoffed. They did the full on the guff or

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Speaker 1: the kind of thing like they just couldn't imagine that

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Speaker 1: that was really the number one thing, but it was.

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Speaker 1: So we've asked the question on faceboo book is it

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Speaker 1: just me? Or am I the only one who has

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Speaker 1: zero interest in being intimate with my partner? So we

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Speaker 1: asked the question on Facebook. We have used some voice

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Speaker 1: actors for some of the responses, and some of you

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Speaker 1: sent us your voice memos via the very easy to

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Speaker 1: use button at Happy Families dot com dot au. You

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Speaker 1: just go to the podcast page, click the button, and

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Speaker 1: start talking.

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Speaker 2: I loved Vanessa's response, she said.

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Speaker 1: Maybe hit weeds, but I can't relate to this at all.

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Speaker 2: And a follow on from that was from Apollonias. She said,

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Speaker 2: my husband just has to look at me and I

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Speaker 2: want to jump his bones, So I can't relate five

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Speaker 2: kids aging from fifteen years to fifteen months and we

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Speaker 2: run a business full time.

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Speaker 1: What a great response, any bone jumping going, Let's not

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Speaker 1: go there. Danil was talking about the difficulty of finding

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Speaker 1: time for intimacy when you've got teenagers. Can so relate

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Speaker 1: right like once the kids start staying up later than you,

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, so frustrating. She was mentioning how difficult

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Speaker 1: it was, and the Happy Families team jumped in and said,

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Speaker 1: I reckon a solid could you leave us alone? Your

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Speaker 1: father and I trying to have sex should make the scene.

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Speaker 3: Scarce for a while.

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Speaker 1: Love the Happy Family's team and their sense of humor.

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Speaker 2: I have a close friend who actually tells her children.

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Speaker 2: Sunday is sex day, so leave us alone.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I've heard that story. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure how I feel about it. I guess if it

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Speaker 1: gets anyway, let's move on. Lindida from the UK said

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Speaker 1: this is a real thing and it could be for

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Speaker 1: the following reasons. Number one, we just went through a

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Speaker 1: pandemic and we're fearing World War III, so there's just

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Speaker 1: the whole there's a bit of stuff going on. Number two, Also,

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Speaker 1: there are global economic crises which have increased inflation and

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Speaker 1: created more stressing couples. So I think that's more likely

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Speaker 1: than the first one, just the stress in couples. Number

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Speaker 1: three pornography addiction for some men, which creates contempt and

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Speaker 1: resentment from their wives for having to have them as

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Speaker 1: their partner. Received a number of private emails. People just

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Speaker 1: emailed this podcast at Happy Families dot com dot au,

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Speaker 1: emphasizing how big of an issue explicit content online is.

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Speaker 1: Number four. Screen addiction, which creates mental overload on top

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Speaker 1: of the most overloaded generation. Now, I would add to

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Speaker 1: what Lindida has said here just being on your phone,

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Speaker 1: because when you're on your phone, you're kind of sending

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Speaker 1: this signal to everybody else that the phone's more important

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Speaker 1: and therefore you're not willing to engage with them. That

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Speaker 1: is an intimacy killer. I had it when I come

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Speaker 1: into the bedroom and you're on the phone, and I

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Speaker 1: know you feel the same way when you walk into

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Speaker 1: the room and I'm on my device. Whereas when that

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Speaker 1: phone is down and you have eye contact and you

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Speaker 1: look at each other and smile and say, how about it.

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Speaker 1: There's just something different right. Number five raising children without

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Speaker 1: a village, which is a deviation from how humans were

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Speaker 1: raised in the past. Number six. All of the can

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Speaker 1: impact mental health, and there was a whole lot more

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Speaker 1: that Lindia, from the UK through and there. I think

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Speaker 1: that all reasonable, some of them much more than others.

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Speaker 1: It's tough when there's so much going on that takes

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Speaker 1: up your cognitive headspace and doesn't allow you to step

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Speaker 1: into the intimate zone.

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Speaker 2: Eliza said, I feel like a lot of women need

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Speaker 2: to be wooed in order to feel in the mood

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Speaker 2: for intimacy. There are so many things on our to

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Speaker 2: do list and we struggle to compartmentalize. If there are

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Speaker 2: things to do on the list, then I can imagine

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Speaker 2: some may struggle to start another task or to relax

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Speaker 2: to enjoy time together. If my list is done, my

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Speaker 2: mind is quiet, and it's easier to relax and enjoy intimacy.

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Speaker 2: If hubby contributes to my to do list, it's even

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Speaker 2: easier to relax and enjoy that intimacy.

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Speaker 1: There is something about that, isn't there? I hear it

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Speaker 1: all the time. Notice the responses that we've had have

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent all been from women. There are only

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Speaker 1: two men who jumped on. Both of them, well, both

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Speaker 1: of them didn't do the best job in what they said,

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Speaker 1: and one guy in particular really created a bit of

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Speaker 1: a storm. His name was Jace Jays. Jumped in there

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Speaker 1: and said.

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Speaker 3: Well, reading a lot of the comments from women that

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Speaker 3: complain about houseworks, stress, being tired, the not being a

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Speaker 3: mind read, et cetera, et cetera, it's all these cop outs.

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Speaker 3: Start looking for the reasons why it should be happening,

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Speaker 3: not justifying the reason. It's not look after him, ladies,

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Speaker 3: or you'll kill your marriage. It's that simple.

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Speaker 2: Ouch, I can see why that wasn't necessarily the most

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Speaker 2: popular response. And our last one I wanted to share

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Speaker 2: is actually from Kylie. She said, oh, boy, can definitely relate.

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Speaker 2: Menopause has finished off my already struggling libido.

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Speaker 1: Did you just say, Kylie? I hadn't know it's not

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Speaker 1: you because I'm not gonna say anything about menopause yet.

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Speaker 1: But you're not there yet.

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Speaker 3: Go ahead.

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Speaker 2: My husband is pretty understanding. But it's something else to

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Speaker 2: feel guilty about, because physical intimacy just feels like something

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Speaker 2: else on my to do list nowadays. I miss the

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Speaker 2: old me, and I hope I come back at some stage.

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Speaker 1: Poor boy. So many many comments that we haven't read

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Speaker 1: really talked about the cognitive load, the fact that women

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Speaker 1: are very, very tired doing so much around the house

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Speaker 1: and often feel like they have to be the mother

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Speaker 1: not only to their children but also to their husband.

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Speaker 1: And when they move into the bedroom, they don't want

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Speaker 1: to continue to feel like their mum. They want to

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Speaker 1: feel like something else. But quite often they're so tired

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Speaker 1: that they just their head hits the pillow and it's

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Speaker 1: all over. Lots of conversations around perimenopause, menopause, and just

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Speaker 1: so much to do, sheer exhaustion getting in the way.

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Speaker 1: We are not sex therapists, but we have some ideas

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Speaker 1: that we think might be helpful if you're worried that

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Speaker 1: it is just you and that you're not getting enough noggi,

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Speaker 1: you're not getting enough of the good stuff in the bedroom.

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Speaker 1: Let's dive into it.

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Speaker 2: According to Emily Nagoski, author of Come as You Are.

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Speaker 1: One of your favorite books in history, it's a good book. Hey,

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Speaker 1: I like it as well. You've got me reading it,

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Speaker 1: and I mean I already knew it all. I knew

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Speaker 1: it all to.

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Speaker 2: Turn science taught justin that there are three essential characteristics

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Speaker 2: of couples who sustain a connection over the long term,

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Speaker 2: and none of them were the characteristics you might have guessed.

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Speaker 1: Interestingly, not really about a cognitive load, certainly not about

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Speaker 1: global warming or World War three or any of that

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Speaker 1: sort of stuff. The three characteristics are number one. If

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Speaker 1: you want to sustain a strong sexual connection, you've got to.

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Speaker 3: Like each other. Like no.

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Speaker 1: I know that sounds really obvious, but you've you've got

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Speaker 1: to look at that person and think you really mattered

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Speaker 1: to me. I want to prioritize you and trust you.

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Speaker 1: I admire you. You're the kind of person that I

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Speaker 1: would like to share this intimate experience with.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to go a little bit further. The

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Speaker 2: girls were asking me the other day to kind of

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Speaker 2: just retell our story how.

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Speaker 1: We met, and all the girls has in our daughters.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And as I was talking to them, I shared

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Speaker 2: with them how it felt the day we got married.

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Speaker 2: I remember waking up that morning and just being so excited.

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Speaker 2: There was no anxiety, there was no no concern about

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Speaker 2: whether I was making the right choice or not. I

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Speaker 2: was just so excited that today I was going to

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Speaker 2: be making a commitment to spend the rest of my

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Speaker 2: life with my very best friend yea. And over the years,

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Speaker 2: we've both shared that we had that exact same feeling.

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Speaker 1: I had that conversation with my best man as we

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Speaker 1: were driving to the wedding venue.

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Speaker 2: And I think for anyone who chooses to spend a

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Speaker 2: lifetime with someone, we've had those experiences. We've had that

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Speaker 2: feeling of wanting to spend a lifetime together, but the

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Speaker 2: next step is actually choosing them every single day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And just on that, I can't tell you how

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Speaker 1: many people that I've spoken to who just have this

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Speaker 1: sort of simmering underbelly of resentment towards their spouse or partner.

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Speaker 1: They feel like they're taken for granted. They feel like

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Speaker 1: they do the line's share of the work, they carry

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Speaker 1: the majority of the load. They do this, they do that,

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Speaker 1: and the other person never does this or never does that.

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Speaker 1: There's sort of like this white anting of the relationship.

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Speaker 1: You have to love each other, like really really want

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Speaker 1: to be with each other. That friendship, the quality of

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Speaker 1: the relationship, the trust, the admiration, the feelings of we're

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Speaker 1: better when we're together, those kinds of feelings have got

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Speaker 1: to come first. You're not going to prioritize any kind

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Speaker 1: of intimacy if you don't feel that way about each other.

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Speaker 1: So if you're listening to this podcast and you don't

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Speaker 1: feel like that, it's time to do some work on

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Speaker 1: the relationship. It's time to rebuild the connection. Connection means

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Speaker 1: feelings seen, hurt and valued. So find ways that you

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Speaker 1: can see and hear and value each other again and

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Speaker 1: get that get that going, because oh my goodness, it's

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Speaker 1: so good when you do.

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Speaker 2: It's not one person's job. It's not your husband's job,

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Speaker 2: it's not your partner's job. We both have to take

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Speaker 2: responsibility for that connection.

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Speaker 1: Okay, here's the second thing. In addition to liking each

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Speaker 1: other and being friends. The couples who sustain strong sexual

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Speaker 1: connections prioritize sex like they actually decide that it matters

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Speaker 1: for their relationship, and they find opportunities to have that

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Speaker 1: physical intimacy together. It might not always be in a course,

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Speaker 1: it might be any number of other forms of physical

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Speaker 1: closeness and intimacy, but they absolutely prioritize it. They make

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Speaker 1: sure that they make time to get it on.

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Speaker 2: I think about the enormity of the task of being

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Speaker 2: a parent.

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Speaker 1: You're going to say, and the enormity is something else

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Speaker 1: for a second, and.

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Speaker 2: How much effort we go to to be the very

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Speaker 2: best we can for our children. And yet in a

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Speaker 2: handful of years, your children are going to leave the

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Speaker 2: nest and you're going to be stuck with the other

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Speaker 2: person that's left in the house.

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Speaker 1: I remember hue Lewis used to sing, I'm happy to

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Speaker 1: be stuck with you, and I mean, I just I

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Speaker 1: can't think of anything better than being stuck with you.

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Speaker 1: That would be my dream, that's my ultimate fantasy. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: carry on. But it's the prioritization, right, the prioritization of

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Speaker 1: the intimacy in the relationship.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I think when you kind of do an

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Speaker 2: inventory of your life and your relationships. Where are you

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Speaker 2: putting most of the energy. Is it into your children

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Speaker 2: and building those relationships to the detriment of your marriage

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Speaker 2: or relationship, or are you finding avenues to actually give

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Speaker 2: priority to your partner.

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Speaker 1: Okay, here's the third one. Instead of accepting other people's

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Speaker 1: opinions about how they're supposed to do sex and their partnership,

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Speaker 1: the people who have genuinely strong sexual connection prioritize what's

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Speaker 1: genuinely true for them and what works in their unique relationship.

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Speaker 1: So they're not looking at the articles on news dot

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Speaker 1: com dot au that tell you how many times the

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Speaker 1: average person does this or does that, or it's just

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Speaker 1: not relevant. What you focused on is what works in

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Speaker 1: your relationship, and.

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Speaker 2: That means being able to have open dialogue and communication

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Speaker 2: with each other.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's where the healthy conversation comes in. Now, we

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Speaker 1: also need to acknowledge sometimes you're not interested and it's

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Speaker 1: got nothing to do with you or your partner. This

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Speaker 1: could be a medical issue, or it could be a

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Speaker 1: psychological issue, so it's important that you go and get help.

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Speaker 1: If that's the case. We're out of time, So there

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Speaker 1: are two other things that I've learned from that book

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Speaker 1: Comes You Up by Emily Dagoski. I want to share

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Speaker 1: them and any men who are listening, this is especially

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Speaker 1: for you. Number one, you need to understand the difference

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Speaker 1: between responsive desire and spontaneous desire. Most men tend to

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Speaker 1: be spontaneously desirous. That they see something that they like

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Speaker 1: and they become desirous of that thing.

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Speaker 2: And as a society, we have been, i want to say,

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Speaker 2: brainwashed to think that spontaneous desire is the only way

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Speaker 2: to have a fulfilling, loving relationship.

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Speaker 1: Right because that's the whole Hollywood trope, and it's also

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Speaker 1: completely what pornography is about as well. There's something else, though,

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Speaker 1: that's called responsive desire, and that's the desire that builds

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Speaker 1: over time when you feel seen, hurt and valued, when

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Speaker 1: you feel like somebody cares about you, they're trying to

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Speaker 1: build trust with you. That responsive desire is the thing

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Speaker 1: where maybe right now I'm not feeling like it, but

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Speaker 1: in ten or fifteen or twenty minutes or thirty minutes

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Speaker 1: of cuddling and talking and feeling loved, I might start

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Speaker 1: to feel like it. My body or my psyche starts

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Speaker 1: to respond. Difference between responsiveness and spontaneity when it comes

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Speaker 1: to desire is huge. The other thing that I think

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Speaker 1: is critically important here is men are ready to go

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Speaker 1: in I don't know, anywhere between ten seconds and two minutes,

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Speaker 1: whereas for women, there's some pretty strong evidence that indicates

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Speaker 1: a good forty minutes minimum to get things warmed up

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Speaker 1: and humming so that we can have a high level

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Speaker 1: of a highly pleasurable experience. So men, don't rush it,

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Speaker 1: don't rush it at all. The second point that I

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Speaker 1: want to make is that you've got to emphasize female pleasure.

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Speaker 1: It's not about you. And if you emphasize female pleasure,

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Speaker 1: you are going to have a good time guaranteed. Like

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Speaker 1: you're going to have a good time anyway. But if

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Speaker 1: you emphasize female pleasure, then your partner, your wife is

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Speaker 1: going to have a great time, which means that you're

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Speaker 1: guaranteed to have a good time because you'll be glad

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Speaker 1: that she had a good time, which makes your time

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Speaker 1: even better. Is what I'm trying to say. So I

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Speaker 1: don't want to have a share, but I'm just going

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Speaker 1: to say this. I have two rules when it comes

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Speaker 1: to our relationship. And the opportunity that we have to

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Speaker 1: be together when the kids aren't banging on the.

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Speaker 3: Door or whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: Rule number one, slow things down. And rule number two

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Speaker 1: it's not about me. And I've found that those two

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Speaker 1: rules have served I was going to say me served us. Well,

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Speaker 1: you're just looking at me and blushing right now. Should

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Speaker 1: I have not shared that.

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Speaker 2: I only have one rule?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: Let's be in the moment.

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Speaker 3: What a great rule, What a great rule.

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Speaker 1: We hope that this has been a compelling podcast for you.

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Speaker 1: We hope that it's given you a few ideas to

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Speaker 1: reinvigorate your love life and hopefully make your family happier.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Justin Ruland from Bridge Media, who

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Speaker 1: is our podcast producer. For more information about making your

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Speaker 1: family happier, visit happy families dot com dot a