1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers. 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 2: Now we're using our masculinity in ways that make others 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 2: feel weak and unsafe when not being healthy in our 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 2: expression of our masculinity. 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My Mum 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: and Dad. 8 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: Every Tuesday on the Happy Families podcast, well most tuesdays, 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,479 Speaker 2: we do our very best to answer your questions. Listen to. 10 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 2: Questions can be sent through to podcasts at happy families 11 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 2: dot com. You that's podcasts with an s at happy 12 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 2: families dot com dot A You kylie. We've got a 13 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 2: got a really important and real life, gritty question that's 14 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 2: come through. In fact, we have two questions that are 15 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: both pretty much saying the same thing. I'm going to 16 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: get you to read them. 17 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 3: So the first one says, where can I get advice 18 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 3: and help for a female parent to best manage a 19 00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 3: teenage son male with anger when he's six feet tall 20 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 3: and the anger is frightening. And then the second one 21 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 3: is my son is going to be seventeen soon and 22 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,199 Speaker 3: we've recently, in the last three or four months, noticed 23 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 3: some big changes in him. He's actually doing really well, personally, 24 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 3: he's happier, more confident, doing better socially, is really open 25 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 3: to anything related to church, grades are up, etc. But 26 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 3: his mood can change at the flip of a switch. 27 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 3: He'll be perfectly normal, having a regular conversation, and then 28 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 3: something triggers him, and within it one second, his entire 29 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 3: demeanor changes. I see it in his face. He just 30 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 3: goes from zero to one hundred. I fully believe that 31 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 3: it's not him. It's got to be hormonal, otherwise it 32 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 3: just doesn't make any sense. He's always been an angry 33 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 3: rather than an emotional kid. 34 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 2: But not like this. 35 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 3: Is there any research to support what I'm saying. I 36 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 3: feel like I've heard you talk about this for teenage boys. 37 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 3: We'd love a podcast episode on it. 38 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 2: Okay, so some really big challenges in any parent of 39 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: a teenage boy nose this feeling every now and again. 40 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 2: Teenage boys, well, they start to flex a little bit, 41 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 2: don't they. We say no, we start to try to 42 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: constrain what's going on, and then I feel so good 43 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 2: about it. And because they're I guess, still learning about 44 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 2: their strength, their newfound strength, sometimes they use it in 45 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 2: ways that are quite frankly terrifying for parents, but are 46 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 2: not in everybody's best interests at all. 47 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 3: Well, I'm not going to have much of an opinion 48 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 3: about this today, being among to lots of girls and 49 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 3: an amazing, big burly son in law who towers over me. 50 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 3: But I am really interested on what the research says 51 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 3: about this. 52 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 2: Well, the research shas sorry, I couldn't help it. The 53 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 2: research research says that there are handful of things that 54 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 2: are worth touching on. First off, I want to talk 55 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 2: about self regulation, and then I want to talk about empathy. 56 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: But we've also got to have a conversation about power 57 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: and how we are in our relationship our kids. And 58 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 2: I'm interested because I'm a dad, but I've been a 59 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 2: teenage boy or who hasn't had a teenage boy. But 60 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 2: as I share what I'm sharing, I would be interested 61 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: in your take on how that feels to be a 62 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 2: mum and hear the advice that I'm giving, okay, and 63 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 2: putting yourself in that situation. So the first thing that 64 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 2: I want to emphasize is just about self regulation. So 65 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 2: self regulation is the ability to either express our emotions 66 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,839 Speaker 2: or contain our emotions in healthy ways. Sometimes they need 67 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 2: to be expressed, but other times regulation meant that we 68 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 2: hold them in, not that we're going to be bottling 69 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 2: them up forever, but we've got to be able to 70 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: deal with them in appropriate and functional ways. Teenage boys 71 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: specifically are on a developmental curve. I think, we might 72 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 2: say politely, they're just learning about self regulation in all 73 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: new ways. So self regulation begins. The ability to either 74 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 2: contain or express emotions begins at around about two or three, 75 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: and it develops slow over time. We all know plenty 76 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 2: of adults who are lousy when it comes to either 77 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 2: expression or containing of their emotions. Some people express too much, 78 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 2: some people contain too much, and getting the balance right 79 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 2: is a maturation process, and it demands thinking and in 80 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 2: a work. When we get into the adolescent years, with 81 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 2: all the hormones buzzing around, and with the newfound strength 82 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 2: and the newfound power that comes with being a teenage 83 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: boy as they grow into their bigger bodies, the idea 84 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 2: that I can express my emotions and just get it 85 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 2: out is something that a lot of parents will grapple 86 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 2: with their teenagers. May slam doors, may shout, and screen 87 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,679 Speaker 2: may even become physical. So this is a really big 88 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 2: challenge it develops on a continuum. They get better at 89 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 2: it as they get older. But if we look at 90 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 2: research by the world's leading adolescent psychological researcher, Lawrence Steinberg, 91 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: he's shown that this continuum, this trajectory, it's not linear. 92 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 2: It's not like they just get a bit better every 93 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 2: day and every month and every year with their self regulation. 94 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 2: There are peaks and troughs, and it also relates to 95 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: how much sleep they're getting, what their diets like, the 96 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,799 Speaker 2: quality of their friendships, how things are going at school. 97 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 2: So does this have. 98 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 3: Anything to do with the way they process emotions? Like, 99 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 3: obviously we're dealing with some significant physiological changes that are 100 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 3: taking place through this period of time, But then stereotypically 101 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 3: boys don't talk about their emotions. Is this the byproduct 102 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 3: of that? 103 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: So the first thing I want to say about this 104 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 2: stereotypical situation is boys and girls do differ on average. Now, 105 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 2: there's a lot of overlap of distributions. That is, there 106 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: are a lot of boys who act a little bit 107 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: more like girls and a lot of girls who act 108 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 2: a little bit more like boys. But on average, we 109 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 2: see a pretty clear differentiation between the way natal boys 110 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 2: and natal girls are going to respond to big emotions 111 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 2: the way they're going to process them, and boys often 112 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 2: will be quite contained until they're too tired or until 113 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: that thing happens. And as that second mum said in 114 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: her email, my son then goes from being really happy 115 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 2: to zero to one hundred on anger in the blink 116 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 2: of an eye. 117 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 3: This reminds me of my dad when I was growing up. 118 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 3: He was like this gentle, gentle, gentle person all the 119 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 3: time until he wasn't. And it was the way he 120 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 3: described me. He said it was like a balloon. He 121 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 3: could take so much, and it was like the air 122 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 3: going into the balloon, blowing blowing, blowing, blowing, blowing, and 123 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 3: then all of a sudden, pop, it just explodes and 124 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 3: it would come out of nowhere, seemingly, But it was 125 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 3: because he held everything in. He dealt with all of it, 126 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 3: and then until he couldn't, there was no reserves. 127 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 2: I love the balloon metaphor. I would change it just 128 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 2: a little bit. Rather than blowing more air into it 129 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 2: until it pops, I think that it's a little more 130 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 2: like you've got that balloon full of air and you're 131 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 2: holding it under the water in the pool and eventually 132 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: you just can't hold it under the water anymore. Eventually 133 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: it forces itself to the surface and it explodes out. 134 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 2: Either one works, but for me, the pressure is there 135 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 2: a lot and for a long time, and all of 136 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,239 Speaker 2: a sudden, bang out it comes. So this first issue 137 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 2: of self regulation, we've got to acknowledge that our kids, 138 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 2: especially our teenage boys, they're learning about their emotions, well 139 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: hopefully they are. Hopefully we're giving them an emotional vocabulary, 140 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 2: and hopefully we're making it safe for them to express 141 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 2: their emotions, but doing it in ways that are socially 142 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: responsible and that are not intimidating and frightening. I think 143 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: we need to have an important conversation with our kids 144 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 2: about what masculinity is. Letting our boys know that a 145 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 2: real man is strong. There's no doubt about that, but 146 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 2: a real man. And we've got plenty of research that 147 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 2: shows that the average boy is stronger than ninety nine 148 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: percent of girls, right, I mean, this is just again 149 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 2: the reality of biology. Boys are stronger than girls, and 150 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 2: as they move into adolescents, they discover that but a 151 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 2: real man, somebody who is masculine. A healthy form of 152 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: masculinity is that when you're strong you help the people 153 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: around you to feel both strong and safe. And when 154 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 2: we're using our masculinity in ways that make others feel 155 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: weak and unsafe, we're not being healthy in our expression 156 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: of our masculinity. Now, that's a hard conversation to have, 157 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 2: and you're not going to have it while your son 158 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:20,679 Speaker 2: is blowing up. You're not going to say, I'm feeling 159 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 2: we can unsafe. Stop this. That doesn't work. But all 160 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 2: this comes back to self regulation. The second thing that 161 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 2: I want to talk about is empathy. And we've got 162 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 2: data from decades of research now that shows that empathy 163 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 2: in boys relative to girls declines as adolescence hits. So 164 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: there are two kinds of empathy, Kylie. There's cognitive empathy. 165 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 2: That's the I can think about how you're feeling and 166 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: I can label it, I can see it. And then 167 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 2: there's the affective kind of empathy, that's the I'm feeling 168 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: in my heart what you're feeling in yours. 169 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 3: So, just to clarify, when you say empathy declines, are 170 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 3: you saying empathy in the boys declines or empathy expressed 171 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 3: towards boys declines? 172 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 2: You know what it could actually be both? I don't 173 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: know of any data that looks at how empathy is 174 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: expressed to boys and girls. But when you say that 175 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 2: that really resonates for me. We become impatient and tolerant 176 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,719 Speaker 2: of boys and their boisterous behavior. They're knocking into things, 177 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 2: they're using their bodies, they're outbursts, they're testosterone fueled expressions 178 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: of emotions, and so we will often respond to that 179 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 2: kind of behavior with a lot less empathy. I think 180 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: that's a really important insight. The data that I'm talking about, though, 181 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 2: shows that for girls, as they move into and through adolescents, 182 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 2: both cognitive and affective empathy both go upwards on a 183 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 2: fairly steady trajectory. This is part of the maturation process 184 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 2: for them. They just become more empathic, they're more relational. 185 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 2: For boys, though we see that they're cognitive empathy, it 186 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 2: sort of stabilizes at about thirteen and does not go 187 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 2: up for a couple of years, and they're affective empathy. 188 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 2: The feeling I get how you're feeling. I'm feeling it too. 189 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 2: That actually drops off from about the age of twelve 190 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,479 Speaker 2: or thirteen and doesn't start to go again until about seventeen. 191 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 2: Like it just it stays down, really really low, and 192 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 2: so we're having this thing where we're saying I want 193 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 2: you to understand how another person's feeling, and they say, 194 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 2: I don't care how they feel, not interested, and I'm 195 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 2: not perceiving it even if you ask me to. So 196 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 2: those are two really big issues that explain why teenage 197 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 2: boys relative to teenage girls, are reactive the way they are. 198 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 2: There's the hormones, there's a self regulation, there's the empathy. 199 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 3: So the big question is what do we do about it. 200 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 2: This is a tough one because our boys don't usually 201 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 2: like sitting down and hearing about their development from us 202 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 2: as parents. As we say, I've noticed that you're having 203 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 2: some really big emotions right now, let's talk about how 204 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 2: you're expressing or containing those emotions, and let's talk about 205 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 2: your empathy decline. Let's get a hormone about this. That's 206 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 2: not going to work with them. 207 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 3: If we start these kinds of conversations with our children 208 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 3: from a young age, then not more likely to be 209 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 3: able to continue those conversations. 210 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 2: He So this is called pre arming and by letting 211 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 2: them know that the changes are coming, that can be helpful. 212 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 2: But the changes still arrive, and when they do, sometimes 213 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,719 Speaker 2: the kids will still feel completely helpless and out of 214 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 2: control anyway. 215 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 3: But you've built a relationship, right right, built a relationship 216 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 3: with them where you can sit down and you can 217 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 3: have hard conversations. 218 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: So the point here is not necessarily that you've taught 219 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 2: them all about development, because not everybody knows that. The 220 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 2: point is you've developed a relationship of trust around emotions. 221 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 2: And so what I really would emphasize is a couple 222 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 2: of things. First off, teach them that it's normal that 223 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:40,559 Speaker 2: they will want to resist you as they move into 224 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 2: their teen years. Let them know that and that you're 225 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: okay with that. That's called differentiation or individuation, and that's 226 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 2: what teenagers are designed to do. That's important for healthy development, 227 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 2: so that they can go and be adults without us 228 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 2: being over their shoulder all the time. That's the first 229 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 2: thing i'd say. The second thing is I would really 230 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 2: emphasize the principle that I talk about all the time, 231 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 2: that is a high emotions equals low intelligence. The kids 232 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 2: have got to know and understand that when their emotions 233 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 2: are peaking, they are going to do and say things 234 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 2: that are not wise or safe or healthy. Their intelligence 235 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: is going to be low. And as they develop that 236 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 2: awareness and they hear that mantra again and again. When 237 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 2: our emotions are high, our intelligence is low. Our IQ drops. 238 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 2: Like if you were to do an IQ test when 239 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 2: you're feeling normal and then do one when you're feeling angry, 240 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 2: you are going to score low the second time around. 241 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 2: Your IQ literally drops when you're angry. 242 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 3: So explore your focus narrows right exactly, and just you 243 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 3: focus on the thing that you're angry about. You can't 244 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 3: see anything else. 245 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 2: Blinders perfect and so using that metaphor and talking about 246 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 2: these things with your kids when they're not in the 247 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 2: moment can be really helpful so that when they are 248 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 2: in the moment, they can remember. Ultimately, though, we need 249 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 2: to deal with what to do in the moment as well. 250 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 3: Well, you've got a mum who's obviously acknowledged she's actually scared. 251 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, this could six for it and intimidating. So let 252 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 2: me run a line. I'm not big on giving people scripts, 253 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 2: but sometimes you just need something and I think that 254 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 2: it could be useful if your child lashes out says 255 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 2: something in an angry outburst, male or female. Frankly, what 256 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 2: does this feel like for you? If you would look 257 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 2: at your child and say, I'm going to give you 258 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 2: another chance to answer that, or I'm going to assume 259 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 2: that you didn't quite mean that. Why don't you try 260 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 2: that again? Does that sound like something that you could do? 261 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 2: What does that sentence carry with it? 262 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 3: I think it's empathy because it acknowledges that you recognize 263 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 3: that in this moment, they're not acting like they normally would. 264 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 3: They're not the person that you know and love right now, 265 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 3: and it's not because they want to be that person. 266 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 3: They've got some big stuff going on inside. They just 267 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 3: don't know how to express it in a positive way. 268 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 3: And so by saying that, you're acknowledging that it's probably 269 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 3: not what you want to say right now. Can we 270 00:13:57,880 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 3: try that again? 271 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 2: I think you take on that. 272 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 3: I think the hard thing is when you're feeling threatened 273 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 3: to express that in such a way. 274 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 2: Great, And this is the point that I really wanted 275 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 2: to emphasize. I wasn't thinking so much about the empathy side, 276 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 2: but I'm really glad that you picked up on it. 277 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 2: The point that I want to emphasize is as much 278 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 2: as you might feel intimidated, you're the mum, be the adult, 279 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 2: hold your own space, like There's something that's really profoundly 280 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 2: powerful when you can look at somebody who is bigger 281 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: than you and who is a little bit scary, and 282 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 2: you can say, I'm going to give you another chance. 283 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 2: What you're saying there is I'm confident enough in my power, 284 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 2: even though I'm not bigger than you, and even though 285 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 2: physically you can dominate me, I have the psychological space 286 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: to deal with this. And by being able to say, 287 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: you just said something, but I think you probably meant 288 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 2: to say it a different way. Why don't you try again, 289 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 2: it causes that fourteen or sixteen or eighteen year old 290 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 2: boy to go, oh oh, I've just been challenged, and 291 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 2: because it's my mum, I'm actually not gonna last yet. 292 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 2: Like there's something powerful about being able to do that 293 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 2: for me. That would be my ideal response. Now, there 294 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 2: are a couple of others that I think are also 295 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 2: going to be really useful. The first is giving them 296 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 2: in fantasy what they can't have in reality, which is 297 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 2: how we draw or a line, but with lots of empathy. 298 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 2: So you might say, don't you just wish that things 299 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 2: weren't the way they are right now? Don't you just 300 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 2: wish that you could do whatever you want, because now 301 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 2: that you're fifteen, you feel like you should be allowed to. 302 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 2: And when you're saying don't you just wish you're actually 303 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 2: saying but you can't. But there's so much empathy there. 304 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 2: And I guess the last idea that I would share, 305 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 2: among many others that we could talk about, is just 306 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 2: some gentle emotion coaching again, being confident enough in yourself 307 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 2: to look at your child and say, you are so 308 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 2: upset about this, I get it, or just look at 309 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: them and say, oh, that that is really hard, that stinks, 310 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 2: that's rotten. 311 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 3: Is there any research to suggest that having male role 312 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 3: models in their lives that can actually sit down with 313 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 3: them and, you know, kind of walk them through the 314 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 3: experiences that they had and share that empathy and understanding 315 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 3: from from common ground. 316 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 2: I'm so glad you asked the question. The last thing 317 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 2: that I had on my list of things to talk 318 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 2: about was the importance of good men in their lives. 319 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 2: One thing that I'm coming across more and more as 320 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 2: I talk to dads in particular, and a lot of mums, 321 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 2: but mainly dads is if you ask men how they're doing, 322 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 2: so many of them will say I'm either fine or 323 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 2: I'm over it. I'm fine, I'm angry, I'm happy, or 324 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: I'm mad, and there's there's no middle ground. No men 325 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 2: are stable and stoic and just fine or they're blowing up. 326 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 2: And our boys are learning that. We've got to help 327 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 2: our kids to see men experiencing the full range of 328 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 2: their emotional repertoire, and that means that there's a whole 329 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 2: lot more than angry or fine. 330 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 3: But then this comes back to that station we had 331 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 3: earlier about starting young right right, helping them to recognize 332 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 3: and understand. Months ago, we talked about even me as 333 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 3: a woman, recognizing that for the first time, there was 334 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 3: more than three emotions in my repertoire, that it wasn't 335 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 3: just you know, happy, sad or angry, that there were 336 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 3: a multitude of other emotions because nobody kind of talked 337 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 3: me through those. So if we can start at a 338 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 3: young age to help our kids recognize all of the 339 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 3: nuance that is around emotion, So does that help? 340 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 2: It does? We're really out of time, but I want 341 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 2: to take sixty more seconds and I'm going to do 342 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 2: a quick activity with you. Okay, teach your kids, your boys, 343 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 2: your girls, teach your kids that emotions exist in two 344 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 2: different ways. They exist on high and low pleasantness, and 345 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: they exist on high and low energy. So you can 346 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 2: have high energy and high pleasantness, or you can have 347 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 2: low energy and low pleasantness. Or you can have high 348 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 2: of one and lower the other, or vice versa. So 349 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 2: let me ask you, what's a high energy, high pleasant 350 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 2: emotion excited great? What's a high energy, low pleasant emotion 351 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 2: anxiety great? What's a low energy, high pleasant emotion joy great? 352 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 2: I would say contentment or calm? And what's a low pleasant, 353 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 2: low energy emotion apathy? I'll take it. That's great. Simply 354 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 2: doing an activity like that with the kids and draw 355 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 2: it on two axes like a line like a cross right, 356 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 2: and have pleasantness on one and energy on the other, 357 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 2: and talking with your kids about that and helping them 358 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 2: to develop an emotion of vocabulary. See, if you only 359 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 2: have two words for emotions or three words for emotions, 360 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 2: then there are all the emotions that you're actually going 361 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 2: to be identifying that you're feeling. But the bigger emotional vocabulary, 362 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 2: the more you can identify the emotions that you're feeling, 363 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:55,479 Speaker 2: and the more your emotional range expands. Your words create 364 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: your world. And if you don't have the emotional vocabulary 365 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 2: for all of these other emotions we can feel, then 366 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 2: you won't know that you're feeling them. You'll think you're fine, 367 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:04,479 Speaker 2: or you'll think you're angry. 368 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 3: Brene Brown brought out a book recently called The Heart 369 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 3: Atlas of the Heart as a book to just read 370 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,959 Speaker 3: from cover to cover. Boring, it was quite pooring, but 371 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 3: I love how she's able to take that nuance of 372 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 3: emotion and go, well, hang on a second, it's not 373 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 3: just sad. You could be feeling you know, seven or 374 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 3: eight different emotions, and these are how they differ from sadness. 375 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 3: Sadness is this, but loneliness is this, or disappointment it 376 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 3: looks like this, and just you know, having those conversations 377 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 3: with the kids is powerful. 378 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 2: I'm going to drop one last teaser in here. In 379 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 2: a couple of months time, early September, we're launching what 380 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,360 Speaker 2: might be our last summit ever. It's called These Smells 381 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 2: Like Team Spirit Summit, and we're going to be talking 382 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 2: all about teenagers and their emotional lives. We have got 383 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 2: some of the very best world experts coming along for 384 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 2: this summit, and I think that both of the mums 385 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,719 Speaker 2: who have sent these emails through will find this summit 386 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 2: so helpful, as will countless other parents. I wish we 387 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 2: could talk more about this. I feel like we need 388 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 2: another half an hour or so on this topic, but 389 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 2: that's all we've got time for today. The Happy Families 390 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,400 Speaker 2: podcast is produced by Justin Rolan from Bridge Media. Craig 391 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 2: Bruce is our executive producer. For more information about making 392 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,719 Speaker 2: your family happier and the upcoming summit, make sure you're 393 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 2: following us along at doctor Justin Pilson's Happy Families on 394 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 2: Facebook or happy families dot com dot au.