Speaker 1: Ordinarily speaking, every day I manage and live with my
Speaker 1: mental health, but even I couldn't see how difficult.
Speaker 2: Last year was going to be.
Speaker 1: Too soon time, Hello and welcome to ordinarily speaking, I'm
Speaker 1: narrowly meadows. Today's guest is netball champion Caitlyn Thwaites. Caitlyn
Speaker 1: is a Commonwealth Games gold medallist and a World Cup
Speaker 1: champion with the Diamonds. She played eighteen seasons in the
Speaker 1: National League and finished her career with another premiership with
Speaker 1: the Vixens last year. For the first time. Caitlyn shares
Speaker 1: the personal anguish behind that premiership. Having managed mental health
Speaker 1: issues throughout her life, the compounding nature of COVID had
Speaker 1: dire consequences on Caitlyn's well being, all the while she
Speaker 1: was also coping with news that had rocked her family.
Speaker 1: I want to thank Caitlyn and her family for allowing
Speaker 1: their private battle to go public in this episode. I
Speaker 1: can't stress enough that this chat contains some very raw
Speaker 1: and confronting content that may be triggering for some people.
Speaker 1: Please listen with care and know that there is help
Speaker 1: out there. Beyond blue dot Org, Dot au and Lifeline
Speaker 1: one three Double one one four are just a couple
Speaker 1: of places you can go. This is a story of
Speaker 1: strength and resilience, and I thank Caitlyn for the bravery
Speaker 1: she has shown in her bid to try and help others.
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed the chat. Well, thanks so much
Speaker 1: for spending some time with me. You've spoken about your
Speaker 1: mental health issues a little bit before. What made you
Speaker 1: do that in the first place. Yes, I think initially
Speaker 1: it was hard for me to speak about it openly
Speaker 1: at the time when I probably didn't have the coping
Speaker 1: skills or the strategies and I felt like I was
Speaker 1: fully in the.
Speaker 2: Mist of it.
Speaker 1: I guess, yes, so it kind of took a while
Speaker 1: for me to be open about it publicly. But that
Speaker 1: that's not saying that I wasn't, you know, the inner
Speaker 1: sanctum of people and even my teammates and people like
Speaker 1: that were aware at the time. It was more probably
Speaker 1: from a media perspective and the external perspective that it
Speaker 1: took me a while to be okay.
Speaker 2: With talking about it.
Speaker 1: But the biggest thing for me was that when I
Speaker 1: was going through it, I actually sought out and found
Speaker 1: a lot of comfort in other people's stories and other
Speaker 1: athletes hearing their journey about it all and learned a
Speaker 1: lot and you know, a lot of those coping strategies
Speaker 1: and things I actually learned from hearing other people's stories.
Speaker 1: And so because I benefited from that, I've kind of
Speaker 1: felt a responsibility to be able to speak about that
Speaker 1: for you know, the next generation of people coming through
Speaker 1: if I could help others. So it's almost like a
Speaker 1: paying it forward type thing for you. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's We've come so far in terms of reducing stigma,
Speaker 1: you know, the normalizing of mental health issues since my diagnosis.
Speaker 1: So my diagnosis was probably about ten or twelve years ago,
Speaker 1: and the attitudes around that publicly have changed so much
Speaker 1: in that time, which I'm really grateful for that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you know, even within netball, within Netball Australia,
Speaker 1: within the Diamonds, I know that the support and things
Speaker 1: has kind of evolved with me as I've kind of
Speaker 1: gone through the program, and the support and things that
Speaker 1: have kind of been put in place around me have
Speaker 1: actually helped put those processes in place forever for the future.
Speaker 1: So what were you diagnosed with? Diagnosed with depression and anxiety.
Speaker 1: So I think I'd experienced bouts of depression before, but
Speaker 1: just didn't know that that's what it was. I suffered
Speaker 1: from acute anxiety attacks at times. And what did that
Speaker 1: look like for you? It was very physical in terms
Speaker 1: of the symptoms. So initially when I started having the
Speaker 1: anxiety attacks, I was getting checked out to see if
Speaker 1: I had epilepsy because of how severely I shook, you know,
Speaker 1: I had like a tremor, the hyperventilation, you know, tingling
Speaker 1: in my extremities due to the hyperventilation, uncontrollable crying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were pretty full on in terms of, you know,
Speaker 1: the physical symptoms of what it was. So when did
Speaker 1: your first experience something like that? At the Institute of
Speaker 1: Sport when I lived up there, So I lived up
Speaker 1: there for volleyball and I was sixteen years old, And yeah,
Speaker 1: the very first one, I remember running home from school
Speaker 1: in my school killed and my shoes and trying to
Speaker 1: get to training in time. And I just had to
Speaker 1: get in there and tell the coach that, like, something's
Speaker 1: wrong with me. I need to go to the medical center,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know what this is, but I can't
Speaker 1: be here for training, like I'm just was so overwhelmed,
Speaker 1: and the attack kind of proceeded to happen, and it
Speaker 1: was quite frustrating because by the time any of the
Speaker 1: nurses or the doctors actually managed to get in and
Speaker 1: see me, it had passed, and so it kind of
Speaker 1: appeared to me, you know, to them like there wasn't
Speaker 1: actually any symptoms or like, what are you going on
Speaker 1: about that?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I proceeded to have, you know, many attacks, and
Speaker 1: I've gotten to a point where I don't think I've
Speaker 1: had an anxiety attack for six or seven years now.
Speaker 1: But my level of self awareness now is so great
Speaker 1: that I can actually feel or sense when things are
Speaker 1: becoming too much and pull myself back out of whatever
Speaker 1: those situations are. So I can feel what the precursors
Speaker 1: of that are within myself and yeah, and kind of
Speaker 1: reduce whatever stimulus that is, yeah, overwhelming me. It must
Speaker 1: have been so scary when that first happened. How old
Speaker 1: were you sixteen?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, you know, there was so much going on
Speaker 1: at that time. I was living out of home, I
Speaker 1: was trying to juggle school with five or six hours
Speaker 1: worth of training every day. I was traveling internationally with
Speaker 1: the national team. We were trying to qualify for the
Speaker 1: two thousand and four Olympics, and I was missing big
Speaker 1: chunk of school, didn't have my support network around me,
Speaker 1: my family, and you know, there was just a lot
Speaker 1: of a lot going on. Yeah, when was it that
Speaker 1: you went okay, it is okay, I'm going to be
Speaker 1: okay because you got I guess a diagnosis around it.
Speaker 1: It wasn't until I was about twenty one. So I
Speaker 1: had gone through kind of you know, multiple I would
Speaker 1: call them lack you know, months worth of being in
Speaker 1: that cloud of depression. And yeah, it wasn't until I
Speaker 1: was about twenty one that that diagnosis came. And that
Speaker 1: was through the acknowledgment of the physio at the Melbourne Vixen's.
Speaker 1: You know, we've got a great relationship and he's been
Speaker 1: with me since I was really young through the state
Speaker 1: teams and knows me really well, and he picked up
Speaker 1: on the fact that my behaviors were changing and he
Speaker 1: intervened and said, hey, Katie, I think it's time for
Speaker 1: us to go and you know, see your doctor and
Speaker 1: get checked out and see what's going on. Because he
Speaker 1: could see that I wasn't you know, I wasn't the
Speaker 1: same as what I normally normally would be when that
Speaker 1: diagnosis for me happened. It was a huge relief, I
Speaker 1: think initially because it kind of felt like, Okay, well
Speaker 1: now it's got a name and we know what it is.
Speaker 1: Now there's going to be these steps that we can take,
Speaker 1: you know, there was a prognosis, there was things that
Speaker 1: we could do moving forward that would help. It was
Speaker 1: probably that initial relief then kind of was followed with
Speaker 1: many years of going actually this isn't as we thought
Speaker 1: it was. It was very very difficult, you know, at
Speaker 1: times to get through those really big, big clouds, and
Speaker 1: like I said, sometimes they're very short or you know,
Speaker 1: I can experience some of the symptoms of that, and
Speaker 1: other times it's you know, six months worth of being
Speaker 1: in a hole. Yeah, so when you say being in
Speaker 1: a hole, what does that look.
Speaker 2: Like for you?
Speaker 1: There's lack of motivation, social withdrawal, not being able to
Speaker 1: leave the house, struggling with everyday tasks like finding it
Speaker 1: really hard to even get up and have a shower,
Speaker 1: sleeping all day. I've dealt with insomnia, so not being
Speaker 1: able to sleep at night, and then hypersomnia, which is
Speaker 1: sleeping all the time, you know, the anxiety, you know,
Speaker 1: just not having joy in the things that you normally
Speaker 1: would experience joy with, or even the want and the
Speaker 1: desire to get out and do things that you would
Speaker 1: normally want to do. It was just gone and empty
Speaker 1: and feeling very feelings of worthlessness, suicidal ideation. Yeah, all
Speaker 1: sorts of things that kind of come along with that.
Speaker 1: So there's the whole of what that looks like for me, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm now so acutely aware of what those symptoms are
Speaker 1: that I really don't want to ever get myself into
Speaker 1: place that is unable to help myself, because there have
Speaker 1: been times when it's been that bad that even if
Speaker 1: I wanted to, I couldn't. I couldn't do anything to
Speaker 1: try and help myself. And that's a really scary place
Speaker 1: for me.
Speaker 2: I kind of feel like.
Speaker 1: It's, you know, steps down a spiral, And if I
Speaker 1: can intervene at the very top of those steps of
Speaker 1: the spiral and not get myself too far down, then
Speaker 1: you've still got some traction, like you can actually climb
Speaker 1: your way out, and there's still those thoughts of hope
Speaker 1: that things can get better. But if I end up
Speaker 1: halfway down or too far down, it becomes harder and
Speaker 1: to even see the top a lot. Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: it becomes even putting the steps in place that you
Speaker 1: know that will help, but it seems too far away
Speaker 1: and the effort required to do those small things is
Speaker 1: so great. Yeah, for me, it's definitely about staying in
Speaker 1: that place where you can still see the light, you
Speaker 1: can still have traction under your feet, and kind of
Speaker 1: implement some of those things where it will get better.
Speaker 2: Whereas Yeah, for me, I'm.
Speaker 1: I just desperately don't want to get into that into
Speaker 1: that place where it's too hard, it's too overwhelming to
Speaker 1: to do anything to be able to help yourself.
Speaker 2: You articulate it so well.
Speaker 1: Was there one moment that was the hardest for you
Speaker 1: or a bunch of moments that that stand out to you.
Speaker 1: The hardest moments for me have been around you know,
Speaker 1: actually just seeing death everywhere and feeling like if I
Speaker 1: was to disappear that nobody would care. So and that's
Speaker 1: that's physically for me. Every single thing that I did
Speaker 1: was you know, from from looking out a window picking
Speaker 1: which tree you know, to cutting up some food and
Speaker 1: finding a knife, to getting in the car and you know,
Speaker 1: finding a pole that you think you.
Speaker 2: Know, that's that's the level of.
Speaker 1: Me seeing death everywhere that I managed to get to,
Speaker 1: and that's that's the most severe for me, And it's
Speaker 1: incredibly scary and incredibly hard to be to be in
Speaker 1: that place, you know, and and for me now I know,
Speaker 1: you know, and you can have that perspective of the
Speaker 1: other people around you, the people that love you. But
Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing for people who don't necessarily
Speaker 1: understand that is that the disease actually takes a way
Speaker 1: your ability to see it from other people's eyes, and
Speaker 1: so that's something you lose perspective, and you can only
Speaker 1: see it through your tunnel vision, and that tunnel vision
Speaker 1: can get incredibly focused on where is my way out
Speaker 1: because I don't want to be here? Did you tell
Speaker 1: your family at the time, Did they know the depths
Speaker 1: of what you were going through?
Speaker 2: No? No, I didn't.
Speaker 1: I was seeking help through psychologists, through you know, other people,
Speaker 1: and initially for me, my journey to even finding people
Speaker 1: that were the right fit for me was actually quite
Speaker 1: hard in itself because feeling so so low and so hard,
Speaker 1: and feeling like the first psychologist I went and saw,
Speaker 1: I felt walking out than I did walking in. I
Speaker 1: felt like they weren't asking the right questions. I wasn't
Speaker 1: sitting there and lying, but they weren't asking the right questions.
Speaker 1: So to actually find somebody that you click with that
Speaker 1: can break through some of those things, because for a
Speaker 1: lot of the time during that time, I was fronting
Speaker 1: up and putting that mask on that you hear people
Speaker 1: talk about, you know, to the extent that if somebody said, hey,
Speaker 1: how are you going today, Caitlyn, what you been up to? Like,
Speaker 1: I would fabricate and make up some story about what
Speaker 1: I'd done that day because I was so ashamed that
Speaker 1: it wasn't until twenty minutes ago that I'd managed to
Speaker 1: scrape myself out of bed and get through the shower
Speaker 1: and get.
Speaker 2: Out the door. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Having a whole bunch of those things now to know that,
Speaker 1: you know, if it doesn't click with one person, find
Speaker 1: somebody that it does click with and that can help
Speaker 1: you and that you have that trusting relationship because it's
Speaker 1: and for me that's been hard because I've moved around
Speaker 1: so much too, so having to actually find different providers
Speaker 1: in different cities that I've been living in, or you know,
Speaker 1: it almost feels like, oh my god, we have to
Speaker 1: go back to I have to explain all this again,
Speaker 1: and you know, because I'm now living in a different
Speaker 1: country or I'm now living somewhere else, and I have
Speaker 1: to rehash all of this so that they can understand.
Speaker 1: But for me, even though some of that work was
Speaker 1: really hard, it's definitely been worth it because even you know,
Speaker 1: not having been with the same providers the whole time,
Speaker 1: I've actually learned different things off all the different people
Speaker 1: as well. All of that is I think it's so
Speaker 1: important because there's so many people that are first of
Speaker 1: all scared to take the first step, but then do
Speaker 1: take it and go, oh no, that's not what I
Speaker 1: thought it would be or it's not what I needed.
Speaker 1: What got you through in the end, What were the
Speaker 1: small steps that you talk about that started to get
Speaker 1: you to emerge from that place? Well, there's you know,
Speaker 1: there's so many things, and it's not just one thing,
Speaker 1: like there's so many different things that now I implement
Speaker 1: into my daily you know wellness. But at the time,
Speaker 1: I think it was attempting to see that I had
Speaker 1: value beyond the value that I was putting on myself.
Speaker 1: That's been a real struggle because for a lot of
Speaker 1: my pathway through mental health. I haven't valued and have
Speaker 1: not seen the worth that I can bring. So that's
Speaker 1: been a huge one. Do you know why, Like, do
Speaker 1: you know where it came from those feelings?
Speaker 2: Not really no.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously, with dealing with depression and things like that,
Speaker 1: there's a genetic component to that. You know, predisposition to
Speaker 1: things like like depression. So there's there's that element, But
Speaker 1: then there's there's also I guess you know, some of
Speaker 1: the experiences and stresses that I have experienced. I guess
Speaker 1: that have Yeah, Who've just wired my brain that way?
Speaker 1: So and that's where to me, sport has actually played
Speaker 1: an incredibly important part because at times when I was
Speaker 1: in the depths of you know, dealing with those mental demons,
Speaker 1: sport for me was the place that I knew that
Speaker 1: I had value and I knew that I could bring
Speaker 1: something to the table, and that my team at times
Speaker 1: the only place that I felt like I would be
Speaker 1: missed if I wasn't to show up, you know, thinking that, oh,
Speaker 1: but my teammates need me this weekend. So that for
Speaker 1: me was initially something that was so so important to
Speaker 1: be able to maintain.
Speaker 2: And I know that throughout you know.
Speaker 1: Sort of two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine,
Speaker 1: twenty ten. Even though two thousand and nine for US
Speaker 1: was a winning premiership at the Vixens, it was that
Speaker 1: was a really tough time for the team but also
Speaker 1: the staff to try and manage me through that. And
Speaker 1: initially when I was diagnosed, they said, you should take
Speaker 1: some time off. It's like you've got a broken leg
Speaker 1: and you need time to heal. But that wasn't an
Speaker 1: option for me because I that was at the time
Speaker 1: the only reason why I was getting out of bed,
Speaker 1: and it was the only place that I felt like
Speaker 1: I would be missed. It's fascinating because Natalie Medhurst came
Speaker 1: on in season one and she said something really similar, like, no,
Speaker 1: I want to keep playing and you're telling me you
Speaker 1: know I shouldn't. Is is you know, the worst case
Speaker 1: scenario because that would make me not want to come
Speaker 1: forward the next time. Is that kind of how you
Speaker 1: felt as well? Firstly, I guess it's there's a there's
Speaker 1: an element of feeling like you can't take that away
Speaker 1: from me. If I flip that around now, I would
Speaker 1: think I'm so grateful that I've got this, like you know,
Speaker 1: and use that positive language of you know, the gratitude
Speaker 1: and the you know, whereas when you're in that mind frame,
Speaker 1: it's you can't take that away from me like it was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think the ramifications of if I had have been
Speaker 1: forced to take time off would have been extreme for me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But in saying that, I do on the flip side
Speaker 1: and understand how difficult it must have been, Yeah, for
Speaker 1: my teammates and for the staff to try and manage
Speaker 1: me through that time because I was you know, we
Speaker 1: talk about high performance behaviors and things like that, and
Speaker 1: I wasn't living up to what the standards of the
Speaker 1: team were. And I understand that now. At the time,
Speaker 1: I probably didn't think that I was behaving in a
Speaker 1: way that wasn't. But yeah, in hindsight, there was definitely
Speaker 1: things that. Yeah, even just the way that I was,
Speaker 1: you know, you talk about that white line fever, being
Speaker 1: able to rock up to training and you know, leave
Speaker 1: your shit at the door and.
Speaker 2: Come to training and bring everything.
Speaker 1: There was I guess, just a haze that I was
Speaker 1: operating under even though I was still there. So did
Speaker 1: your teammates know the full extent of what you were
Speaker 1: going through? I told them yeah, And I wanted to
Speaker 1: do that because I initially I thought, if I do
Speaker 1: have to take time off, then they should know why.
Speaker 1: I wanted them to have an understanding of what was
Speaker 1: going on for me. But then I also kind of
Speaker 1: selfishly thought that, well, if people are aware, then potentially
Speaker 1: they can help and they might be able to help me.
Speaker 1: And this is where I think across the last kind
Speaker 1: of ten or so years, the attitudes and things have
Speaker 1: changed so much because initially, when I sat down and
Speaker 1: told all my teammates and I said to them, I
Speaker 1: don't want you stepping on eggshells around me. Don't not
Speaker 1: yell at me because I have dropped that ball. You know,
Speaker 1: I still want you to behave the way that you
Speaker 1: normally would. I don't want you to sugarcoat things for me,
Speaker 1: but I also think you need the context of how
Speaker 1: I'm doing at the moment, and I'm not doing great.
Speaker 1: I remember after it literally felt like I had bared
Speaker 1: my soul to them when I told them what I
Speaker 1: was dealing with. And I think I got a text
Speaker 1: message from one of my teammates and it was barely
Speaker 1: ever spoken about again. And I think at the time
Speaker 1: that may that fed into the narrative of nobody cares.
Speaker 1: You know, look, you've told them all this, you've showed
Speaker 1: them everything, and they're still not reaching out or helping
Speaker 1: or doing anything. But that also, what I've come to
Speaker 1: understand is that it's at the time, it wasn't from
Speaker 1: a lack of caring.
Speaker 2: They do and they did care.
Speaker 1: At the time, it was from a lack of knowing
Speaker 1: how and not knowing or having the language or the tools.
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of them felt awkward. Do
Speaker 1: I talk about it, Don't I talk about it? I
Speaker 1: don't know, fear of saying the wrong thing. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: so it kind of we just kind of carried on.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So for me earlier asked about you know, why have
Speaker 1: you come forward and kind of been so open about it?
Speaker 1: And that is one of the other things to me,
Speaker 1: I go out and do mental health talks now, and
Speaker 1: I say, look like, come up and have that awkward
Speaker 1: conversation with me now, because the next time somebody needs
Speaker 1: you to have that conversation, you will have dealt with
Speaker 1: some of that awkwardness. You will have figured out that
Speaker 1: worked or that didn't work, and you will be better
Speaker 1: at being that help or that support person for the
Speaker 1: next person that needs you.
Speaker 2: That's huge.
Speaker 1: So did you tell them in a group, did you
Speaker 1: stand up in front of the group and this is
Speaker 1: a Vixens or Diamonds or both or Vixen's. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was a room upstairs at the State Network Hockey Center
Speaker 1: after training one night. So yeah, And that's what I
Speaker 1: mean about the attitudes and the way that we talk
Speaker 1: about it. People have got the language to understand and
Speaker 1: to check in with people, and you know, even for
Speaker 1: people that are trying to help. Some of the best
Speaker 1: people for me actually never talked about it, but they
Speaker 1: held me accountable to getting out of the house. Or
Speaker 1: you know, a friend of a friend of mine, she
Speaker 1: would say, Katie, you're coming over for dinner tonight and
Speaker 1: I'd ring her up and say, oh no, I've got
Speaker 1: something else on. Or she read through my bullshit like
Speaker 1: anything and she say, now you're here like starting at
Speaker 1: five o'clock. See then, So without even talking to me
Speaker 1: about any of it, she got me out of the house.
Speaker 1: She had me interacting with others, and that was some
Speaker 1: of the best. The best things for me was, you know,
Speaker 1: I had other people that I was opening up to
Speaker 1: and that I was talking to it a bit with
Speaker 1: so to have somebody who actually just you know, was
Speaker 1: calling me out on my bullshit or was getting me
Speaker 1: out of the house, that was super, super important too,
Speaker 1: because all the while you're the superstar on the netball court,
Speaker 1: you know, like I say, Diamonds Vixen's, and you're producing
Speaker 1: and consistently producing as well. Is that part of it
Speaker 1: that what we see as mental health is not what
Speaker 1: it actually is. You know, what we think it's going
Speaker 1: to be is not how it actually presents itself. You
Speaker 1: can keep performing, you can be a superstar. You can
Speaker 1: be under the spotlight and behind closed doors not well
Speaker 1: at all. I think that's something that I still shock myself,
Speaker 1: I think a bit with how at times I have
Speaker 1: been in incredibly poor mental health and still being able
Speaker 1: to get out there do my job and do it
Speaker 1: really well.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: My ability to compartmentalize, I think has been an amazing
Speaker 1: tool that I've been able to kind of put things
Speaker 1: aside and get out there and do what is required
Speaker 1: of me, what my teammates need of me, what I
Speaker 1: see in the moment. Dealing with pressure situations, all of
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, and managing anxiety through that is
Speaker 1: a whole nother thing as well, because the anxiety, this
Speaker 1: physical symptoms and things of anxiety are probably a bit
Speaker 1: more acute. I would say, I think if I'm in
Speaker 1: a place of depression, I'm able to still step out
Speaker 1: there and do my job and kind of have that
Speaker 1: white line fever of whatever else is happening out there.
Speaker 1: I can step on the court and I think I've
Speaker 1: used the language before. I've been able to put my
Speaker 1: Superman cap on or whatever and get out there and
Speaker 1: do it. But the anxiety stuff, I think is a
Speaker 1: bit different because it does physically affect your heart rate,
Speaker 1: the way that you're taking in information from your eyesight,
Speaker 1: your hands shape, you know. And I have had games
Speaker 1: before when I have been so anxious my pupils dilate,
Speaker 1: like it's where I've burnt up so much nervous energy
Speaker 1: before the warm up and so I'm almost faint by
Speaker 1: the time the game starts, you know, the game that
Speaker 1: I can recall that from happening. I was lying down
Speaker 1: doing breathing exercises in the change room before the game,
Speaker 1: and I was on the bench. I wasn't even playing.
Speaker 1: So the level of anxiety of how that affected me
Speaker 1: without even actually getting out stepping on the court. But
Speaker 1: I think the other aspect around that has been the
Speaker 1: incredible way and Lisa Alexander has taken a leading role
Speaker 1: within Netpal Australia to be able to not ride me off.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of coaches or a lot of
Speaker 1: people within organizations would think that it's too hard basket
Speaker 1: and we can't rely on we can't trust that player
Speaker 1: at this time because of all of these things. Whereas
Speaker 1: to me, Lisa's ability to understand and know her players,
Speaker 1: to know me and also to an extent not know
Speaker 1: what's going on with me too, because there's the fear
Speaker 1: that if if you divulge and tell everything to the coachable,
Speaker 1: then they're going to use that and not put you
Speaker 1: out on the court. And for so much of my career,
Speaker 1: my Diamond's career, I've been fighting to get out on
Speaker 1: the court. So there's been an element of well, no,
Speaker 1: I don't want them to know that I'm in poor
Speaker 1: mental health because if that's going to be the decision,
Speaker 1: the deciding factor over whether they put me out there
Speaker 1: or not, I've been fighting my whole.
Speaker 2: Career to get out there.
Speaker 1: So for the trust within the system of her staff.
Speaker 1: So Angie Bain, she's the wellbeing officer that we had
Speaker 1: at the Diamonds and then AFLP a stollar away from us,
Speaker 1: now does come up a lot. She's a good woman,
Speaker 1: she's incredible. I might need to get her on one day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you do the trust that Lisa had within her staff
Speaker 1: and you know, within Angie to be able to say, yes,
Speaker 1: we will come and let you know if things are
Speaker 1: getting to a point where you need to know, but
Speaker 1: at the moment, they're under control. And I think we
Speaker 1: had a traffic light system where it was green, absolutely
Speaker 1: fine and ready to go. Amber is dealing with some stuff,
Speaker 1: but we're on top of it, and read was okay.
Speaker 1: We might need to let you know or just mind
Speaker 1: your language or your attitude around that player because they've
Speaker 1: got a lot, a lot happening at the moment. So
Speaker 1: how proud are you that you've been able to help
Speaker 1: change the narrative, particularly in netball, but also in broader
Speaker 1: sport as well, because I mean, you know, traffic light systems,
Speaker 1: those sort of things like as you say, when you
Speaker 1: first were diagnosed, you were barely even aware of these
Speaker 1: sort of things, let alone the sport, sporting environment, being
Speaker 1: embracing of it. Yeah, I think the sport has evolved
Speaker 1: and I have evolved with it as well, and even
Speaker 1: in terms of the way that I can speak about
Speaker 1: it and the coping mechanisms and things that I have
Speaker 1: the ability to do now. But I think that's been
Speaker 1: a mutual thing for us as well. I mean, the
Speaker 1: AIS held an education seminar type thing and we used
Speaker 1: Netbule used and put forward my case study. I guess
Speaker 1: as a part of you know, what the sport is doing,
Speaker 1: and so to actually have me on board and have
Speaker 1: me present and be a part of the pitch at
Speaker 1: a all of the sports education type thing that's beneficial
Speaker 1: for the sports, beneficial for other sports, you know, all
Speaker 1: of those types of things, I think has been really helpful.
Speaker 1: And even amongst teammates and things like that too. Know
Speaker 1: of other athletes who are dealing with things who've not
Speaker 1: necessarily come to me, but I think having had open
Speaker 1: and honest and vulnerable conversations and been okay with that,
Speaker 1: they've seen that actually the reaction to Caitlin hasn't actually
Speaker 1: been as bad as what I thought.
Speaker 2: So maybe it's okay if I let a few people.
Speaker 1: In that's an amazing legacy. I mean, I feel like
Speaker 1: as you get further away from your netball career and
Speaker 1: you reflect on it, I feel like that's almost going
Speaker 1: to be as powerful, if not more, as what you
Speaker 1: did on the court. Like that's a pretty cool thing
Speaker 1: to have been a part of. It is. And I
Speaker 1: think at the final Diamonds dinner when I had just retired,
Speaker 1: Cathcox actually asked me, like, what do you hope to
Speaker 1: be remembered for? And I kind of said, because I
Speaker 1: do spend a lot of time investing in the community
Speaker 1: and mental health advocacy and all of these other things.
Speaker 1: Like I kind of said, well, I hope people remember
Speaker 1: that I was a bloody good player too, because it's.
Speaker 2: You know, and that stuff I am.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I am super proud of but yeah, there's the
Speaker 1: sporting element too, and I.
Speaker 2: Hope people remember that.
Speaker 1: We definitely do. We definitely do. You're listening to ordinarily
Speaker 1: speaking with netball champion Caitlyn Thwaites, So you talk about
Speaker 1: last year, tell me what is the compounding effect of
Speaker 1: COVID on somebody who is already dealing with pre existing
Speaker 1: mental health issues? Pretty huge? One of the best ways
Speaker 1: to describe it is the fact that and this is
Speaker 1: athletes in general like to be in control and like
Speaker 1: to know and have a plan about everything, and so
Speaker 1: obviously the uncertainty of what COVID brought into our world
Speaker 1: it shook things up, you know, it really really shook
Speaker 1: things up. So feeling like you knew everything that was happening,
Speaker 1: even to the extent of not knowing the start date
Speaker 1: of the season or if we're going to have a season,
Speaker 1: to not know what training phase we were in. I
Speaker 1: think we probably did three phases of conditioning. We really conditioned,
Speaker 1: which I hated. That's my least favorite part of part
Speaker 1: of training. But it probably actually helped me out a
Speaker 1: bit because I ended up changing positions along the way,
Speaker 1: so being able to do that extra run and conditioning
Speaker 1: stuff was helpful. But in saying that, I think initially
Speaker 1: for me, I struggled and it fed into some of
Speaker 1: my depressive behaviors because it took away a lot of
Speaker 1: the coping mechanisms and the coping things that I would
Speaker 1: put in place if I was struggling mentally, things like
Speaker 1: making sure I get out of the house and meet
Speaker 1: up with someone early in the morning, so that I
Speaker 1: can have a productive day. That was no longer an option.
Speaker 1: Even the motivation around training. For me, I've not really
Speaker 1: been a self motivator A lot of the time. It's
Speaker 1: because my teammates are relying on me, and I need
Speaker 1: to be there and do this session and you know,
Speaker 1: and run my body hardest because I've got somebody who's
Speaker 1: right up my backside. You know. I'm more of an
Speaker 1: external motivator. So to then have the ability to train
Speaker 1: with your teammates taken away. That was in itself as well.
Speaker 1: Just so many things that normally I would if I
Speaker 1: was feeling stressed to go out and get an extra massage.
Speaker 2: We had no access to that stuff.
Speaker 1: Some of the self care things me not being able
Speaker 1: to get out of the house is a big one.
Speaker 1: So being in that lockdown, not able to have other
Speaker 1: people around me. I did struggle initially. There was a
Speaker 1: period of time where it wasn't you know, I would
Speaker 1: leave it until five pm and the sun's going down,
Speaker 1: and then I would go, oh my god, I haven't
Speaker 1: done that running session we're meant to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I think a lot of those things for me,
Speaker 1: I found really hard to have to adapt and to
Speaker 1: a certain extent, I was proud of the fact that
Speaker 1: I had kind of gone, oh, look, I do have
Speaker 1: all these coping strategies, and I don't even realize that
Speaker 1: I do them anymore. But then all of them had
Speaker 1: been taken away because of the lockdown, because of we
Speaker 1: weren't allowed to train together, because.
Speaker 2: Of all of these things.
Speaker 1: To have to adapt to all of that was really tricky,
Speaker 1: and I think the best way of describing I guess
Speaker 1: how much stress or stress aws I can kind.
Speaker 2: Of deal with.
Speaker 1: I feel like, if I've got a couple of areas
Speaker 1: of my life that are really balanced and strong, if
Speaker 1: shit hits the fan in one of those areas, then
Speaker 1: I've still got these other things that are keeping me balanced.
Speaker 1: But there was so much that was being thrown off
Speaker 1: kilter because of COVID. What was your reaction when you
Speaker 1: first got the phone call about we're going to go
Speaker 1: into a hub environment away from Melbourne. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: when we're we back. What was your reaction to that?
Speaker 1: So that happened for us, We were standing in a
Speaker 1: very big, socially distanced circle after a training session, and
Speaker 1: my initial reaction as.
Speaker 2: Soon as I.
Speaker 1: Thought that that was what was being said. I burst
Speaker 1: out into tears because it had only been a month
Speaker 1: prior that my dad had been diagnosed with multiple my loma,
Speaker 1: so rare blood cancer, and also amyloidosis, which is a
Speaker 1: rare disease that we at the time had no idea about.
Speaker 2: And I'll make doctor Google tell you not to do that,
Speaker 2: and that.
Speaker 1: Was a lesson, don't do that. That was another element
Speaker 1: for me that was the most incredibly difficult thing to
Speaker 1: try to get through this season and going into a
Speaker 1: hub finding out that news for me, and even though
Speaker 1: at the time we thought that it might have only
Speaker 1: been seven weeks or nine weeks or whatever it was,
Speaker 1: that to me was deciding potentially, if I go away,
Speaker 1: I might not have seen my dad again. There was
Speaker 1: so many different complications and things that he was dealing
Speaker 1: with that I guess the amyloidosis is a build up
Speaker 1: of a certain type of protein that attacks the function
Speaker 1: of your organs, and Dad had that of the lungs,
Speaker 1: the kidneys, and the heart, so his kidneys weren't functioning.
Speaker 1: He was having He's continued to have to have, you know,
Speaker 1: two leaders of fluid drained from his lungs every four
Speaker 1: weeks or so for the last however long, he's had
Speaker 1: heart attacks where Mum had driven him to the hospital
Speaker 1: and managed to get him there just into the emergency
Speaker 1: room as he had a heart attack, and then because
Speaker 1: of COVID, they wouldn't let Mom through the doors. So
Speaker 1: dealing with all of that, and you know, the treatment
Speaker 1: of what Dad was going through, He's not once had
Speaker 1: somebody being able to sit with him while he's going
Speaker 1: through his chemo treatment, and even throughout COVID because of
Speaker 1: the compromised immune system, there were periods of time even
Speaker 1: when we weren't in lockdown that as a family we
Speaker 1: decided it was safer not to go and see him.
Speaker 1: So finding out that we had to go away was
Speaker 1: one of the hardest things for me to try and
Speaker 1: decide if I if I was going to do it.
Speaker 1: And and the way, the way that I justified that
Speaker 1: and got it around in my head was that if I,
Speaker 1: if I got on the plane and I went, I
Speaker 1: could still come home. And and that was in as
Speaker 1: hard as it was to not be in Victoria and
Speaker 1: not be here while the severity of the lockdown was happening,
Speaker 1: a saving grace for me was not having to quarantine
Speaker 1: upon return, so if anything was to happen.
Speaker 2: I could get back straight away.
Speaker 1: If that option and we had to quarantine upon return
Speaker 1: to Victoria was taken off the table, I would have
Speaker 1: one hundred percent come home straight away, just because of
Speaker 1: the borders. Getting on the plane for me was I
Speaker 1: didn't think. I did not think I would last the
Speaker 1: entire season being up there. I broke it down and thought,
Speaker 1: if I get through one week of quarantine and I
Speaker 1: have to come home, then that's that's what I have
Speaker 1: to do. But having my family also been such an
Speaker 1: incredible support for me throughout my whole career that they
Speaker 1: wanted me to go. They wanted me to do my best.
Speaker 1: They wanted me to know to live my life and
Speaker 1: do those things. And the joy and the distraction that
Speaker 1: it brought for them given what they were going through,
Speaker 1: was something as well that was a silver lining that,
Speaker 1: you know, that held me in the positive mind frame
Speaker 1: of yes, I'm still doing something to help them. Did
Speaker 1: you talk to your dad about the decision to go?
Speaker 1: Did you know what? Did he say?
Speaker 2: He wanted me to go?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it he's he's been there for so much of
Speaker 1: my career and not to have him there for any
Speaker 1: of the season this year.
Speaker 2: Obviously that was a tricky one.
Speaker 1: But even if we were allowed to travel, Dad wouldn't
Speaker 1: have been able to travel. You know. I was on
Speaker 1: the phone to them every day. You know, we had
Speaker 1: zoom catch ups with the family and trivia nights and
Speaker 1: all the sorts of things that we we could try
Speaker 1: and to spend time together and be there. But I
Speaker 1: think having you know, talk about the coping mechanisms and
Speaker 1: things that I've learned along the way, and prior to
Speaker 1: some of the big tournaments that we played, we would
Speaker 1: have a parent some partner education program in order for
Speaker 1: them to kind of, you know, feel more a part
Speaker 1: of it, understand what we were going through and best
Speaker 1: ways for them to support us. But one of the
Speaker 1: best things that came out of that for me that
Speaker 1: I've utilized has been having some tough conversations with the
Speaker 1: family about if something happens, I don't want you to
Speaker 1: keep it from me, like That's that was the biggest,
Speaker 1: you know, the biggest one of the biggest things was
Speaker 1: I didn't want my mind to be going to Dad's
Speaker 1: in hospital again and he's dealt with this, and you know,
Speaker 1: Mum and Dad are hiding things they don't want to
Speaker 1: tell me because they don't want me to know like
Speaker 1: I needed, because my brain would actually go ten steps
Speaker 1: down the line as to how bad he was in
Speaker 1: comparison to if they actually just told me, told me
Speaker 1: front up. Then I knew having conversations like that prior
Speaker 1: to going and making sure that that was the way
Speaker 1: that I wanted things to be communicated, and that would work,
Speaker 1: you know, really effectively for us.
Speaker 2: But you know, throughout.
Speaker 1: Hub life there were multiple times where you know, Dad
Speaker 1: was back in hospital and things hadn't gone so great,
Speaker 1: and Mum was at home by herself and the rest
Speaker 1: of the family can't go and go and see her
Speaker 1: or support her either. So it's one of the hardest things,
Speaker 1: apart from getting myself out of the depth of depression,
Speaker 1: for me, last year was the hardest thing I'm about.
Speaker 2: To go through.
Speaker 1: Where is he now? What's the situation now with his dad?
Speaker 1: So he is still going through various different treatments. He's
Speaker 1: being treated as an outpatient, which is amazing, and even
Speaker 1: just the benefits of acting him actually being in Bendigo
Speaker 1: in a country town was also very comforting to have
Speaker 1: him away from the bulk of what COVID was doing,
Speaker 1: especially given how much he was having to be in
Speaker 1: and out of hospitals. He's managing at the moment. So
Speaker 1: he's got, you know, two or three days where he's
Speaker 1: being treated for different things and having to go into
Speaker 1: the hospital and have his chemo on a Tuesday and
Speaker 1: his amyloid treatment on a Wednesday. And you know, the
Speaker 1: amount of specialists that he's been collecting that are a
Speaker 1: part of his treatment team, it's pretty it's pretty impressive, yeah,
Speaker 1: to see them and the team work that is required
Speaker 1: in that for his treatments. So getting home from the
Speaker 1: hub and dealing with all that we had to deal
Speaker 1: with in terms of the season.
Speaker 2: I got home off the.
Speaker 1: Plane and because there were regional restrictions at that point
Speaker 1: in time, so I had to have exebs from government
Speaker 1: to be able to fly back into Victoria and drive
Speaker 1: to drive up to Bendigo to see Mom and dad
Speaker 1: straight away after returning home. Even dealing with things like that,
Speaker 1: we were looking at do I fly to Canberra, Do
Speaker 1: I fly to Adelaide and then get in a car
Speaker 1: and drive, you know, the logistics around getting me home
Speaker 1: to be able to see my family. Obviously that's what
Speaker 1: we managed and dealt with, but those were things that
Speaker 1: were very stressful. What was it like when you did
Speaker 1: get to see you smile, when you got to see
Speaker 1: him that first time after the hub. Well, it's been
Speaker 1: so difficult because you all, the first thing you want
Speaker 1: to do is give them a big hug.
Speaker 2: You can't.
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's I mean, wearing masks and not being
Speaker 1: allowed to touch. We've even had times when we've gone
Speaker 1: back to Bendigo and we've stayed in a hotel because
Speaker 1: it's not been okay for us, you know, to stay
Speaker 1: in the house, And we've had picnic in the backyard
Speaker 1: across opposite sides of the backyard because we didn't even
Speaker 1: want to be in the house to be able to
Speaker 1: spend time with Mum and Dad. So, you know, all
Speaker 1: of those things over the last little while have been
Speaker 1: incredibly difficult. But I've just been so grateful that we've
Speaker 1: been able to have the time that we've been able
Speaker 1: to have since returning from from the season and being
Speaker 1: able to play out the season and have the ending
Speaker 1: that we had given everything that we dealt with, and
Speaker 1: I literally said to Dad, if the final gets close,
Speaker 1: Dad can you please leave the room and turn this
Speaker 1: out off because I don't want to be the reason
Speaker 1: that you've had another heart attack and ended up in
Speaker 1: the hospital.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So there's.
Speaker 1: All of that kind of going on as well as
Speaker 1: dealing with everything that we were dealing with, and I
Speaker 1: guess in terms of the mental health side of things
Speaker 1: as well. For me, I talk about those areas of
Speaker 1: your life that if one area kind of goes off kilter.
Speaker 1: Every area of my life was off kilter this last
Speaker 1: year due to COVID, due to family. I'm so proud
Speaker 1: of the fact that I've been able to cope, to
Speaker 1: be able to get through all of it, and to
Speaker 1: have had the support around me that's enabled me to
Speaker 1: do that. You should have been pretty proud. Oh you
Speaker 1: got me cry the whole way through.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I apologize.
Speaker 1: You speak of the final I mean when you talk
Speaker 1: about everything that you're going through and everything that the
Speaker 1: team went through as well, because even without all the
Speaker 1: extra stuff is such a huge challenge being away from
Speaker 1: home for that long and winning it. You know, a
Speaker 1: miss here. What did that moment mean to you? Hey?
Speaker 1: And once again you smile when I bring it up.
Speaker 1: What did that moment mean, there had been so much
Speaker 1: that we had gone through, and I think the period
Speaker 1: of time that I think we were in.
Speaker 2: The fight or flight mode response.
Speaker 1: You know, the cycle of even getting us out of
Speaker 1: Victoria in the first place was incredibly stressful.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: But by the way, you've taken seventy percent pay cuts
Speaker 1: along the way to make to ensure the fact that
Speaker 1: the sport is actually keep going, and then midway through
Speaker 1: the season for me deciding that I was going to
Speaker 1: hang up the net burners. So that was another factor
Speaker 1: that kind of I had to deal with. The rollercoaster
Speaker 1: of emotions around retirement. Not being able to have my
Speaker 1: family there was a huge thing. But I've got a
Speaker 1: cousin that lives up in Queensland and she actually printed
Speaker 1: off all of the faces of my immediate family, had
Speaker 1: them on little sticks in the crowd before the game.
Speaker 1: Looking up in the crowd and seeing that it nearly
Speaker 1: set me off, and then I had to go, no,
Speaker 1: don't look at that, You've got a job to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the pressures, I think of all of that, everything
Speaker 1: that we had thrown at us, it was a pretty
Speaker 1: huge effort. So you have retired and you've recently announced
Speaker 1: that you are pregnant. Congratulations. Thanks, It's a pretty exciting
Speaker 1: chapter ahead for you. It is, you know, dealing with
Speaker 1: the transition into retirement. I think was going to be
Speaker 1: an adjustment and probably a difficult one, and decided to
Speaker 1: throw the adjustment and transition into motherhood and parenthood as well.
Speaker 1: We're really excited and very grateful that that has, you know,
Speaker 1: has happened for us. And you know, we've seen so
Speaker 1: many netballers and even you know recently Chelsea who's come
Speaker 1: out and explained, you know, the difficult teas that she's
Speaker 1: faced as a female athlete dealing with fertility. And I'm
Speaker 1: very mindful, you know, and very grateful that of the
Speaker 1: way that this has happened for us, and we're really
Speaker 1: looking forward to it. But we're also you know, feeling
Speaker 1: for those that struggle. So when's your dad say when
Speaker 1: you told him? Actually, I wrapped up a little ball
Speaker 1: of wool and gave it to mum. The card had
Speaker 1: on it saying Nana, can you please knit me a
Speaker 1: rug because it's going to be cold when I come
Speaker 1: out in July.
Speaker 2: We told them quite early.
Speaker 1: We did that on purpose because we felt the family
Speaker 1: just needed some positivity and something to focus on.
Speaker 2: To move forward.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I can't wait to see my dad with
Speaker 3: my baby's He's so incredible with children, So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be a really nice moment.
Speaker 2: Yep, that's yeah, that's that's the aim.
Speaker 1: So we've got to have all of that positivity and
Speaker 1: channel it into into getting getting him to be there
Speaker 1: in the next little while. So I know it's really important.
Speaker 1: You just mentioned how rare it is the condition that
Speaker 1: he has. How if people are listening, how can they
Speaker 1: help for those who are who are dealing with that. So,
Speaker 1: because it is really rare, it doesn't doesn't even have
Speaker 1: its own foundation or anything like that, so it actually
Speaker 1: falls under the Leukemia Foundation, which deals with a lot
Speaker 1: of the rare blood diseases. And you know, this is
Speaker 1: the first time that I've spoken about it publicly and
Speaker 1: being mindful of not wanting to put extra attention or
Speaker 1: pressure or anything like that on the family, but I
Speaker 1: kind of I got back from the hub and thought, great,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go out and run a half marathon
Speaker 1: or a marathon or something to to raise money research
Speaker 1: for this, and yeah, and then pregnancy, how the other
Speaker 1: ideas about doing that, But Yeah, the Leukemia Foundation do
Speaker 1: a lot of great work that filters money through to
Speaker 1: research for for amyloidosis and also obviously the multiple myeloma.
Speaker 1: So if yeah, if there was anybody that can spare
Speaker 1: some money at a time like this during COVID and
Speaker 1: we know that everybody's doing it super tough, but yeah,
Speaker 1: if people wanted to donate, the Leukemia Foundation would be
Speaker 1: a great one. How's your dad's approach been to it?
Speaker 1: And I guess does does he inspire you the way
Speaker 1: that's he's handling what he's going through. I don't think
Speaker 1: I've heard a complaint out of his mouth. You know
Speaker 1: how hard it's been, or whether he's not feeling well.
Speaker 2: He just doesn't show it.
Speaker 1: It's been quite tough to see the physical aspects, the
Speaker 1: weight loss that has kind of occurred, to the treatments
Speaker 1: and things, the fact that he's at times he's not
Speaker 1: even been able to walk, you know, five or ten
Speaker 1: meters without having to stop because he can't breathe. His
Speaker 1: muscles aren't getting the energy that they need to be there,
Speaker 1: and to see it is a whole different thing to
Speaker 1: have mom and Dad tell you on the phone the difficulties.
Speaker 1: But you know, Mum's been training for this her whole
Speaker 1: life too. She's been a nurse for forty odd years,
Speaker 1: so she's doing an incredibly great job at being there
Speaker 1: for dad too. So to see the way that Dad
Speaker 1: has coped and he's taking everything in his stride as
Speaker 1: much as you know, I can't imagine how lonely it
Speaker 1: would be at times being in the hospital, not knowing,
Speaker 1: not being able to have anybody come and visit you
Speaker 1: throughout COVID. It's, I guess, been torture at times for
Speaker 1: the rest of us as a family to know how
Speaker 1: to help when in the middle of a pandemic. At
Speaker 1: times we've been the ones that have been the risk
Speaker 1: to him, and none of us would forgive ourselves if
Speaker 1: we were to have taken, you know, taken COVID from
Speaker 1: the lives that we live, into his house, into his
Speaker 1: his environment that could potentially have been fatal. It's been
Speaker 1: a really tricky and difficult time to navigate. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: strength that they have shown has has flowed on for
Speaker 1: the ability for me to have done what I've done
Speaker 1: last year, and I'm just so grateful for their strength
Speaker 1: and and I love them. Sounds like you've got some
Speaker 1: pretty ideal role models.
Speaker 2: For Bob yep.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's that's not discounting the Kiwi side as.
Speaker 2: Well, and that's your partner.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, my partner and his Kiwi family. We haven't
Speaker 1: been back for a long time to go and visit
Speaker 1: and see them. So the support that Adam has given
Speaker 1: me throughout this time as well and my family has
Speaker 1: been immense. Thank you so much. I mean, we've just
Speaker 1: cried through this last hour together. But I appreciate your
Speaker 1: honesty so much and I think you are spot on
Speaker 1: when you hear people talk about it. It really does
Speaker 1: help with whoever's personal journey it is, so I applaud
Speaker 1: your strength and you have every right to be proud
Speaker 1: of yourself for what you got through last year, and
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see how you navigate your way
Speaker 1: through the next fun challenge ahead. So thank you so much. Thanks,
Speaker 1: And I think for anybody that knows me knows that
Speaker 1: I'm an emotional person. So if you've tuned into this
Speaker 1: and weren't expecting a few tears, then I'm gonna call
Speaker 1: you out to say you don't know me.
Speaker 2: Well, I love it.
Speaker 1: Congratulations again as well, Thank you, thanks so much. Time.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode. Of ordinarily speaking, I
Speaker 1: wish Caitlin and her family all the best in the
Speaker 1: joys and challenges to come. If you want to donate,
Speaker 1: head to leukemia dot org dot AU. If this chat
Speaker 1: was triggering for you, please ask for help. Lifeline and
Speaker 1: Beyond Blue are just a couple of places you can go.
Speaker 1: Thanks again for listening. A new episode will drop on Wednesday.
Speaker 1: Listen Jesus