WEBVTT - Caitlin Thwaites - Ordineroli Speaking 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:10.080 Ordinarily speaking, every day I manage and live with my 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:15.400 mental health, but even I couldn't see how difficult. 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:16.160 Last year was going to be. 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:30.680 Too soon time, Hello and welcome to ordinarily speaking, I'm 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:36.120 narrowly meadows. Today's guest is netball champion Caitlyn Thwaites. Caitlyn 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.120 is a Commonwealth Games gold medallist and a World Cup 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.680 champion with the Diamonds. She played eighteen seasons in the 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:46.640 National League and finished her career with another premiership with 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:50.960 the Vixens last year. For the first time. Caitlyn shares 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:56.040 the personal anguish behind that premiership. Having managed mental health 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:59.480 issues throughout her life, the compounding nature of COVID had 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:03.440 dire consequences on Caitlyn's well being, all the while she 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.720 was also coping with news that had rocked her family. 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.760 I want to thank Caitlyn and her family for allowing 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.360 their private battle to go public in this episode. I 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.600 can't stress enough that this chat contains some very raw 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:20.319 and confronting content that may be triggering for some people. 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.760 Please listen with care and know that there is help 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:28.200 out there. Beyond blue dot Org, Dot au and Lifeline 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.880 one three Double one one four are just a couple 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:34.720 of places you can go. This is a story of 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:38.120 strength and resilience, and I thank Caitlyn for the bravery 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:41.240 she has shown in her bid to try and help others. 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:51.200 I hope you enjoyed the chat. Well, thanks so much 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:55.240 for spending some time with me. You've spoken about your 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:58.720 mental health issues a little bit before. What made you 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.680 do that in the first place. Yes, I think initially 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:07.800 it was hard for me to speak about it openly 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:11.360 at the time when I probably didn't have the coping 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.280 skills or the strategies and I felt like I was 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:15.600 fully in the. 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:17.680 Mist of it. 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.160 I guess, yes, so it kind of took a while 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:24.480 for me to be open about it publicly. But that 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:27.680 that's not saying that I wasn't, you know, the inner 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.880 sanctum of people and even my teammates and people like 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:34.600 that were aware at the time. It was more probably 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:39.040 from a media perspective and the external perspective that it 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:41.480 took me a while to be okay. 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:42.639 With talking about it. 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.640 But the biggest thing for me was that when I 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.720 was going through it, I actually sought out and found 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:51.839 a lot of comfort in other people's stories and other 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:57.320 athletes hearing their journey about it all and learned a 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.480 lot and you know, a lot of those coping strategies 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:04.520 and things I actually learned from hearing other people's stories. 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:08.040 And so because I benefited from that, I've kind of 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.920 felt a responsibility to be able to speak about that 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.280 for you know, the next generation of people coming through 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:17.520 if I could help others. So it's almost like a 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.760 paying it forward type thing for you. Yeah, and you know, 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:24.919 it's We've come so far in terms of reducing stigma, 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:31.280 you know, the normalizing of mental health issues since my diagnosis. 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.720 So my diagnosis was probably about ten or twelve years ago, 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:40.000 and the attitudes around that publicly have changed so much 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:45.360 in that time, which I'm really grateful for that. But yeah, 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.880 I think you know, even within netball, within Netball Australia, 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:54.560 within the Diamonds, I know that the support and things 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:58.960 has kind of evolved with me as I've kind of 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:01.880 gone through the program, and the support and things that 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:03.880 have kind of been put in place around me have 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:08.400 actually helped put those processes in place forever for the future. 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:13.880 So what were you diagnosed with? Diagnosed with depression and anxiety. 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:20.640 So I think I'd experienced bouts of depression before, but 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.440 just didn't know that that's what it was. I suffered 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:27.719 from acute anxiety attacks at times. And what did that 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:33.159 look like for you? It was very physical in terms 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:37.880 of the symptoms. So initially when I started having the 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:41.160 anxiety attacks, I was getting checked out to see if 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:46.680 I had epilepsy because of how severely I shook, you know, 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:53.080 I had like a tremor, the hyperventilation, you know, tingling 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:58.720 in my extremities due to the hyperventilation, uncontrollable crying. Yeah, 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:02.280 they were pretty full on in terms of, you know, 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.920 the physical symptoms of what it was. So when did 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:10.040 your first experience something like that? At the Institute of 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.800 Sport when I lived up there, So I lived up 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:18.880 there for volleyball and I was sixteen years old, And yeah, 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:23.200 the very first one, I remember running home from school 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.080 in my school killed and my shoes and trying to 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.600 get to training in time. And I just had to 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.520 get in there and tell the coach that, like, something's 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:34.520 wrong with me. I need to go to the medical center, 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:36.359 Like I don't know what this is, but I can't 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:40.400 be here for training, like I'm just was so overwhelmed, 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:45.440 and the attack kind of proceeded to happen, and it 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.320 was quite frustrating because by the time any of the 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:50.680 nurses or the doctors actually managed to get in and 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.880 see me, it had passed, and so it kind of 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.520 appeared to me, you know, to them like there wasn't 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.719 actually any symptoms or like, what are you going on 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:01.000 about that? 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:01.320 Yeah. 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:05.240 So I proceeded to have, you know, many attacks, and 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.840 I've gotten to a point where I don't think I've 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.280 had an anxiety attack for six or seven years now. 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:17.200 But my level of self awareness now is so great 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:20.520 that I can actually feel or sense when things are 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:24.320 becoming too much and pull myself back out of whatever 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:28.440 those situations are. So I can feel what the precursors 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.599 of that are within myself and yeah, and kind of 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:35.680 reduce whatever stimulus that is, yeah, overwhelming me. It must 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:37.839 have been so scary when that first happened. How old 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:39.080 were you sixteen? 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:39.839 Yeah? 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:43.360 Yeah, so, you know, there was so much going on 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.840 at that time. I was living out of home, I 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:49.520 was trying to juggle school with five or six hours 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.840 worth of training every day. I was traveling internationally with 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.520 the national team. We were trying to qualify for the 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.719 two thousand and four Olympics, and I was missing big 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:02.680 chunk of school, didn't have my support network around me, 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.800 my family, and you know, there was just a lot 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:09.040 of a lot going on. Yeah, when was it that 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.080 you went okay, it is okay, I'm going to be 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:16.200 okay because you got I guess a diagnosis around it. 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:20.080 It wasn't until I was about twenty one. So I 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:24.840 had gone through kind of you know, multiple I would 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.360 call them lack you know, months worth of being in 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:32.160 that cloud of depression. And yeah, it wasn't until I 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:34.600 was about twenty one that that diagnosis came. And that 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:39.040 was through the acknowledgment of the physio at the Melbourne Vixen's. 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:41.360 You know, we've got a great relationship and he's been 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.200 with me since I was really young through the state 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.920 teams and knows me really well, and he picked up 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.520 on the fact that my behaviors were changing and he 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.600 intervened and said, hey, Katie, I think it's time for 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:56.720 us to go and you know, see your doctor and 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:59.160 get checked out and see what's going on. Because he 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.880 could see that I wasn't you know, I wasn't the 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.800 same as what I normally normally would be when that 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:11.040 diagnosis for me happened. It was a huge relief, I 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:15.120 think initially because it kind of felt like, Okay, well 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.160 now it's got a name and we know what it is. 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:19.640 Now there's going to be these steps that we can take, 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:21.960 you know, there was a prognosis, there was things that 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:25.080 we could do moving forward that would help. It was 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:29.360 probably that initial relief then kind of was followed with 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.800 many years of going actually this isn't as we thought 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:37.840 it was. It was very very difficult, you know, at 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:42.720 times to get through those really big, big clouds, and 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.920 like I said, sometimes they're very short or you know, 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:49.920 I can experience some of the symptoms of that, and 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.640 other times it's you know, six months worth of being 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:56.079 in a hole. Yeah, so when you say being in 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:57.880 a hole, what does that look. 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:58.320 Like for you? 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:05.120 There's lack of motivation, social withdrawal, not being able to 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.600 leave the house, struggling with everyday tasks like finding it 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:10.840 really hard to even get up and have a shower, 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:16.720 sleeping all day. I've dealt with insomnia, so not being 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:18.760 able to sleep at night, and then hypersomnia, which is 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:23.720 sleeping all the time, you know, the anxiety, you know, 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:27.440 just not having joy in the things that you normally 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:31.640 would experience joy with, or even the want and the 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:35.120 desire to get out and do things that you would 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:38.240 normally want to do. It was just gone and empty 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:46.280 and feeling very feelings of worthlessness, suicidal ideation. Yeah, all 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:48.160 sorts of things that kind of come along with that. 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:52.120 So there's the whole of what that looks like for me, Like, 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:56.160 I'm now so acutely aware of what those symptoms are 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:59.880 that I really don't want to ever get myself into 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:04.720 place that is unable to help myself, because there have 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.640 been times when it's been that bad that even if 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.720 I wanted to, I couldn't. I couldn't do anything to 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:14.680 try and help myself. And that's a really scary place 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:15.240 for me. 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:17.440 I kind of feel like. 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:21.760 It's, you know, steps down a spiral, And if I 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.319 can intervene at the very top of those steps of 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:28.439 the spiral and not get myself too far down, then 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:32.640 you've still got some traction, like you can actually climb 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.839 your way out, and there's still those thoughts of hope 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.760 that things can get better. But if I end up 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:43.040 halfway down or too far down, it becomes harder and 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.280 to even see the top a lot. Yeah, and so 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:50.480 it becomes even putting the steps in place that you 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:53.080 know that will help, but it seems too far away 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:56.480 and the effort required to do those small things is 0:10:56.559 --> 0:11:00.240 so great. Yeah, for me, it's definitely about staying in 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.000 that place where you can still see the light, you 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:07.200 can still have traction under your feet, and kind of 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.679 implement some of those things where it will get better. 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.040 Whereas Yeah, for me, I'm. 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.760 I just desperately don't want to get into that into 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:20.079 that place where it's too hard, it's too overwhelming to 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:22.320 to do anything to be able to help yourself. 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:24.240 You articulate it so well. 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.480 Was there one moment that was the hardest for you 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.760 or a bunch of moments that that stand out to you. 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:39.800 The hardest moments for me have been around you know, 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:44.400 actually just seeing death everywhere and feeling like if I 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:52.480 was to disappear that nobody would care. So and that's 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:59.360 that's physically for me. Every single thing that I did 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:04.960 was you know, from from looking out a window picking 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:09.440 which tree you know, to cutting up some food and 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:14.600 finding a knife, to getting in the car and you know, 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:16.760 finding a pole that you think you. 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:20.040 Know, that's that's the level of. 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:24.679 Me seeing death everywhere that I managed to get to, 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:32.880 and that's that's the most severe for me, And it's 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:38.160 incredibly scary and incredibly hard to be to be in 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:43.320 that place, you know, and and for me now I know, 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:46.680 you know, and you can have that perspective of the 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:51.000 other people around you, the people that love you. But 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.679 I think the biggest thing for people who don't necessarily 0:12:54.800 --> 0:13:00.240 understand that is that the disease actually takes a way 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.800 your ability to see it from other people's eyes, and 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:11.240 so that's something you lose perspective, and you can only 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.680 see it through your tunnel vision, and that tunnel vision 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:19.520 can get incredibly focused on where is my way out 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.560 because I don't want to be here? Did you tell 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.040 your family at the time, Did they know the depths 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:26.360 of what you were going through? 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:31.720 No? No, I didn't. 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:42.640 I was seeking help through psychologists, through you know, other people, 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.560 and initially for me, my journey to even finding people 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:51.520 that were the right fit for me was actually quite 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:56.200 hard in itself because feeling so so low and so hard, 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.880 and feeling like the first psychologist I went and saw, 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.640 I felt walking out than I did walking in. I 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:06.160 felt like they weren't asking the right questions. I wasn't 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.960 sitting there and lying, but they weren't asking the right questions. 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:14.200 So to actually find somebody that you click with that 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.880 can break through some of those things, because for a 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:21.280 lot of the time during that time, I was fronting 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:23.840 up and putting that mask on that you hear people 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.960 talk about, you know, to the extent that if somebody said, hey, 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:30.400 how are you going today, Caitlyn, what you been up to? Like, 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:32.840 I would fabricate and make up some story about what 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:36.440 I'd done that day because I was so ashamed that 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:40.760 it wasn't until twenty minutes ago that I'd managed to 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.920 scrape myself out of bed and get through the shower 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:44.360 and get. 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:45.960 Out the door. Yeah. 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.920 Having a whole bunch of those things now to know that, 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:51.360 you know, if it doesn't click with one person, find 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:54.440 somebody that it does click with and that can help 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:58.200 you and that you have that trusting relationship because it's 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:00.760 and for me that's been hard because I've moved around 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:05.080 so much too, so having to actually find different providers 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.720 in different cities that I've been living in, or you know, 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.760 it almost feels like, oh my god, we have to 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:12.720 go back to I have to explain all this again, 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:15.920 and you know, because I'm now living in a different 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:18.680 country or I'm now living somewhere else, and I have 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.040 to rehash all of this so that they can understand. 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.480 But for me, even though some of that work was 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:28.960 really hard, it's definitely been worth it because even you know, 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.800 not having been with the same providers the whole time, 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.720 I've actually learned different things off all the different people 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.200 as well. All of that is I think it's so 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.720 important because there's so many people that are first of 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:42.040 all scared to take the first step, but then do 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:43.680 take it and go, oh no, that's not what I 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:45.440 thought it would be or it's not what I needed. 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.800 What got you through in the end, What were the 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:52.920 small steps that you talk about that started to get 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:57.200 you to emerge from that place? Well, there's you know, 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.880 there's so many things, and it's not just one thing, 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:05.200 like there's so many different things that now I implement 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:08.960 into my daily you know wellness. But at the time, 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:12.960 I think it was attempting to see that I had 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.120 value beyond the value that I was putting on myself. 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.800 That's been a real struggle because for a lot of 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:25.000 my pathway through mental health. I haven't valued and have 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.840 not seen the worth that I can bring. So that's 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.960 been a huge one. Do you know why, Like, do 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.360 you know where it came from those feelings? 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:37.880 Not really no. 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.560 You know, obviously, with dealing with depression and things like that, 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:45.520 there's a genetic component to that. You know, predisposition to 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:50.200 things like like depression. So there's there's that element, But 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.800 then there's there's also I guess you know, some of 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:58.600 the experiences and stresses that I have experienced. I guess 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:02.680 that have Yeah, Who've just wired my brain that way? 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.240 So and that's where to me, sport has actually played 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:10.359 an incredibly important part because at times when I was 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:14.480 in the depths of you know, dealing with those mental demons, 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.560 sport for me was the place that I knew that 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.000 I had value and I knew that I could bring 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:23.880 something to the table, and that my team at times 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:25.600 the only place that I felt like I would be 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:30.120 missed if I wasn't to show up, you know, thinking that, oh, 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.879 but my teammates need me this weekend. So that for 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:37.479 me was initially something that was so so important to 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:38.920 be able to maintain. 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.200 And I know that throughout you know. 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:43.080 Sort of two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.239 twenty ten. Even though two thousand and nine for US 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:51.040 was a winning premiership at the Vixens, it was that 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:54.200 was a really tough time for the team but also 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:58.800 the staff to try and manage me through that. And 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:02.120 initially when I was diagnosed, they said, you should take 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.120 some time off. It's like you've got a broken leg 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:07.800 and you need time to heal. But that wasn't an 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.840 option for me because I that was at the time 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:12.720 the only reason why I was getting out of bed, 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:17.159 and it was the only place that I felt like 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.840 I would be missed. It's fascinating because Natalie Medhurst came 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:24.280 on in season one and she said something really similar, like, no, 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.159 I want to keep playing and you're telling me you 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.720 know I shouldn't. Is is you know, the worst case 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:31.520 scenario because that would make me not want to come 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:33.520 forward the next time. Is that kind of how you 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:38.360 felt as well? Firstly, I guess it's there's a there's 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:42.520 an element of feeling like you can't take that away 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.280 from me. If I flip that around now, I would 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:48.359 think I'm so grateful that I've got this, like you know, 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:52.480 and use that positive language of you know, the gratitude 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:56.320 and the you know, whereas when you're in that mind frame, 0:18:56.480 --> 0:19:00.800 it's you can't take that away from me like it was. Yeah, 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.600 I think the ramifications of if I had have been 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:10.480 forced to take time off would have been extreme for me. Yeah, 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:12.600 But in saying that, I do on the flip side 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:17.359 and understand how difficult it must have been, Yeah, for 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:20.479 my teammates and for the staff to try and manage 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.920 me through that time because I was you know, we 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:27.120 talk about high performance behaviors and things like that, and 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.639 I wasn't living up to what the standards of the 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:33.359 team were. And I understand that now. At the time, 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:37.639 I probably didn't think that I was behaving in a 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:41.200 way that wasn't. But yeah, in hindsight, there was definitely 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:45.399 things that. Yeah, even just the way that I was, 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:47.760 you know, you talk about that white line fever, being 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.360 able to rock up to training and you know, leave 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:51.560 your shit at the door and. 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:53.280 Come to training and bring everything. 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:57.359 There was I guess, just a haze that I was 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:01.959 operating under even though I was still there. So did 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.479 your teammates know the full extent of what you were 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:10.600 going through? I told them yeah, And I wanted to 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.919 do that because I initially I thought, if I do 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:16.560 have to take time off, then they should know why. 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:19.560 I wanted them to have an understanding of what was 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:22.240 going on for me. But then I also kind of 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.720 selfishly thought that, well, if people are aware, then potentially 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.720 they can help and they might be able to help me. 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:32.920 And this is where I think across the last kind 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:35.320 of ten or so years, the attitudes and things have 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:38.960 changed so much because initially, when I sat down and 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:41.639 told all my teammates and I said to them, I 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:44.679 don't want you stepping on eggshells around me. Don't not 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:47.280 yell at me because I have dropped that ball. You know, 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:50.119 I still want you to behave the way that you 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.040 normally would. I don't want you to sugarcoat things for me, 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.520 but I also think you need the context of how 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:59.040 I'm doing at the moment, and I'm not doing great. 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.879 I remember after it literally felt like I had bared 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:07.359 my soul to them when I told them what I 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:09.400 was dealing with. And I think I got a text 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:12.040 message from one of my teammates and it was barely 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:16.399 ever spoken about again. And I think at the time 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:21.399 that may that fed into the narrative of nobody cares. 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:24.639 You know, look, you've told them all this, you've showed 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:27.240 them everything, and they're still not reaching out or helping 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:31.600 or doing anything. But that also, what I've come to 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:35.600 understand is that it's at the time, it wasn't from 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:36.439 a lack of caring. 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:39.040 They do and they did care. 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:41.920 At the time, it was from a lack of knowing 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:46.760 how and not knowing or having the language or the tools. 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:50.359 And I think a lot of them felt awkward. Do 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:52.119 I talk about it, Don't I talk about it? I 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:55.160 don't know, fear of saying the wrong thing. Yeah, And 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:57.840 so it kind of we just kind of carried on. 0:21:59.000 --> 0:21:59.240 Yeah. 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:03.040 So for me earlier asked about you know, why have 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.480 you come forward and kind of been so open about it? 0:22:05.520 --> 0:22:07.199 And that is one of the other things to me, 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.000 I go out and do mental health talks now, and 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:12.879 I say, look like, come up and have that awkward 0:22:12.920 --> 0:22:16.680 conversation with me now, because the next time somebody needs 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:19.040 you to have that conversation, you will have dealt with 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:22.680 some of that awkwardness. You will have figured out that 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:25.240 worked or that didn't work, and you will be better 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:28.080 at being that help or that support person for the 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:29.239 next person that needs you. 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:30.119 That's huge. 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:32.200 So did you tell them in a group, did you 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:34.240 stand up in front of the group and this is 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:38.879 a Vixens or Diamonds or both or Vixen's. Yeah, it 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:41.480 was a room upstairs at the State Network Hockey Center 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:45.439 after training one night. So yeah, And that's what I 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:47.960 mean about the attitudes and the way that we talk 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:51.000 about it. People have got the language to understand and 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:53.600 to check in with people, and you know, even for 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:56.240 people that are trying to help. Some of the best 0:22:56.240 --> 0:23:01.160 people for me actually never talked about it, but they 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:05.320 held me accountable to getting out of the house. Or 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:07.359 you know, a friend of a friend of mine, she 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:10.119 would say, Katie, you're coming over for dinner tonight and 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:12.840 I'd ring her up and say, oh no, I've got 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:16.359 something else on. Or she read through my bullshit like 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:20.280 anything and she say, now you're here like starting at 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:25.320 five o'clock. See then, So without even talking to me 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:28.280 about any of it, she got me out of the house. 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:32.560 She had me interacting with others, and that was some 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:35.840 of the best. The best things for me was, you know, 0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:38.520 I had other people that I was opening up to 0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:40.760 and that I was talking to it a bit with 0:23:41.240 --> 0:23:44.560