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Speaker 1: Are you one of the one in three Australians who

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Speaker 1: has fatty liver disease?

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Speaker 2: Do your blood tests.

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Speaker 1: Routinely come back from the doctor with lots of asterisks

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Speaker 1: all around your liver markers and your GP tells you

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Speaker 1: that you need to cut back on the alcohol. On

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Speaker 1: today's episode of The Nutrition Couch, we take a closer

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Speaker 1: look at this extremely common inflammatory disease and the very

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Speaker 1: easy dietary changes you can make to help improve the

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Speaker 1: health of your liver. Hi, I'm Cuziburrel and Omily and

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Speaker 1: w and each week we bring you The Nutrition Couch,

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Speaker 1: the bi weekly podcast that keeps you up to date

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Speaker 1: on everything you need to know in the world of nutrition,

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Speaker 1: as well as all things nutrition and liver health. Today,

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Speaker 1: we're going to take a deep dive into the area

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Speaker 1: of soy and can too much be.

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Speaker 2: Bad for you?

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Speaker 1: And our listener question is all about bagels so Land

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Speaker 1: To kick us off today, we have been really scanning

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Speaker 1: our socials a lot and looking at topics that our

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Speaker 1: listeners are keen to hear more on, and one of

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Speaker 1: the ones that came up was a question relating to

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Speaker 1: soy based food, so whether it's soy milk, or tofu

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Speaker 1: or even things like Eta marmae beans and is it actually.

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Speaker 2: Healthy for you or not?

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Speaker 1: Because, of course, going back, say twenty years or so,

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Speaker 1: soy received a little bit of bad press when it

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Speaker 1: came to cancer risk, and we thought it was time

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Speaker 1: that we go through some of the research in that area.

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Speaker 3: Particularly because plant based diets are on the rise, and

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Speaker 3: even if you're not bellowing a completely plant based diet,

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Speaker 3: a lot of people are actively trying to include more

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Speaker 3: plants within their diets, so more of that flexitarian style

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Speaker 3: eating approach, which I myself do. And so I think

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Speaker 3: it's a really important topic, like you said, because there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of just misinformation on social media, and this

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Speaker 3: goes with everything, right, Like everybody considers themselves an expert.

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Speaker 3: Everybody posts on TikTok about nutrition because everybody eats. I

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Speaker 3: think everyone thinks that they get an opinion on nutrition,

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Speaker 3: which they do, but it doesn't necessarily mean their opinion

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Speaker 3: as correct. So we wanted to put a few of

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Speaker 3: the myths to bed. And the first one I think

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Speaker 3: is really around the effects of soy intake in men

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Speaker 3: and creating some feminizing effects aka men boops. So I

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Speaker 3: think a lot of people are quite fearful of, you know,

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Speaker 3: having soy milk in the house or getting their husband

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Speaker 3: to drink it because they've heard the hype on social

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Speaker 3: media that if men drink too much soy they'll get

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Speaker 3: an increased growth in their chest area. And I think

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Speaker 3: it's really important to first state that this was not

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Speaker 3: based on a study at all. This was literally like

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Speaker 3: just one guy coming out online being like, Hey, I

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Speaker 3: really like soy milk. I drink it all the time,

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Speaker 3: and over the course of like a year or two,

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Speaker 3: I've literally started like growing increasing my breast tissue amount essentially.

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Speaker 2: So this wasn't a study.

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Speaker 3: It was basically just this guy talking about his own experiences.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's really important to understand that he

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Speaker 3: just closed that he was drinking upwards of three liters

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Speaker 3: of soy milk a day. Now, even for somebody following

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Speaker 3: a completely plant based diet, like a complete vegan diet,

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Speaker 3: that is a lot of soy milk. And I couldn't

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Speaker 3: think of anybody Susie in my entire career seeing thousands

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Speaker 3: of clients that has had upwards of three letters of

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Speaker 3: soy milk day. But when you actually do look at

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Speaker 3: the research. There was a twenty ten review did look

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Speaker 3: at males and their soy intake. So there was nine

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Speaker 3: different clinical studies included in this review, and it basically

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Speaker 3: showed that the isolo flavonoid exposure from eating soi did

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Speaker 3: not affect any circulating estrogen levels in men. So as

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Speaker 3: long as you have a standard or moderate consumption of

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Speaker 3: soi for men, it's not going to increase or give

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Speaker 3: you quote unquote man Boobs put it that way. So

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Speaker 3: I think we can put that first myth to bed now.

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Speaker 3: The second one, SUZI, is really around soy and breast cancer.

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Speaker 3: Now there's a breast cancer risk, and then there's a

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Speaker 3: group of people who have had breast cancer survived it,

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Speaker 3: and you know, obviously trying to prevent that from coming

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Speaker 3: back long term. So we've kind of got two camps

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Speaker 3: here now. From a preventative risk assessment study, the largest

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Speaker 3: studies to date on soy intake and that risk of

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Speaker 3: breast cancer actually followed seventy thousand Chinese women. So the

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Speaker 3: study was called the Shanghai Women's Health Study, and it

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Speaker 3: followed seventy thousand women over seven years. That is a

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Speaker 3: massive study. Susy that's a huge population group which we

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Speaker 3: love to see research. And the key finding from this

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Speaker 3: study was that women who ate SOI regularly had a

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Speaker 3: fifty nine percent lower risk of perimenopausal breast cancer compared

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Speaker 3: to those who are very very small amounts of SOI.

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Speaker 3: So soy in most women is actually protective to prevent

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Speaker 3: things like breast cancer. However, Susy, you work with different

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Speaker 3: in colleges and the research is a little bit different,

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Speaker 3: or the recommendations is a little bit different if you've

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Speaker 3: actively had breast cancer, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: I think we have to be very clear that when

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Speaker 1: we're looking at research and preventative health for the general population. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, any of our listeners who are say twenty

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Speaker 1: to forty, they haven't had an active family history of

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Speaker 1: any medical conditions, and approaching it from a healthy diet

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Speaker 1: perspective is very different from someone who has any kind

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Speaker 1: of significant medical history, particularly in the areas of cancer.

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Speaker 1: So hormonal cancers can be related to prostate cancer, breast cancer,

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Speaker 1: oor varian cancer, even indirectly sometimes to brain cancer and

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Speaker 1: bowel cancer or even thiorroy dysfunction. So soon, and this

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Speaker 1: is one of the reasons if you're seeing a dietitian

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Speaker 1: or health professional, they should be asking about family history

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Speaker 1: because that plays a big role in determining risk factors,

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Speaker 1: and that can be completely different. So, in my experience

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Speaker 1: with some individual to have had breast cancer and receiving

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Speaker 1: treatment at tertiary hospitals, if that type of cancer has

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Speaker 1: been proven to be what they call a hormone positive

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Speaker 1: cancer and estrogen positive cancer, their advice from their oncologist

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Speaker 1: has been to then actively avoid soy food. Now we

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Speaker 1: should say leanne. That's a very specific, rare example. You know,

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Speaker 1: that might be one or two people in one hundred

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Speaker 1: or two hundred, but certainly the advice for individuals with

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Speaker 1: that medical history or family history could be quite different.

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Speaker 1: So if you're sort of thinking, oh, well, my aunt

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Speaker 1: had breast cancer, or my mother had a varian cancer,

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Speaker 1: or we've got thiorroy dysfunction in the family, you need

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Speaker 1: to get individualized advice based on that positive family history,

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Speaker 1: particularly if it is an estrogen positive cancer, as opposed

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Speaker 1: to take it as a blanket. So these recommendations we're

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Speaker 1: giving today a public popular health preventative strategies as opposed

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Speaker 1: to prescriptive models for individuals with that positive health history.

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Speaker 3: I think that's really important because we get so many

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Speaker 3: messages and emails, you know, online from listeners that say,

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Speaker 3: I love your podcasts. I listen religiously every week and

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Speaker 3: we're like, thank you, we love you for supporting us

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Speaker 3: and doing that. But they say, I learned so much.

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Speaker 3: I've never seen a dietician. I've learned so much, And

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Speaker 3: that's wonderful, and we aim to get at that healthy

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Speaker 3: balance advice for healthy individuals. But if you have different

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Speaker 3: types of medical conditions, like Susie said, if you have

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Speaker 3: family histories, if you're worried about anything, you really do

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Speaker 3: need to go and get some personalized advice because we

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Speaker 3: can only really give out that general top level of

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Speaker 3: advice without really an knowing the specifics of different people's

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Speaker 3: you know, individual lives all that sort of thing. So

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Speaker 3: that is basically, you know, it is protective for the

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Speaker 3: majority of the population if you're healthy from a cancer

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Speaker 3: breast cancer risk perspective, but also from a prostate cancer

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Speaker 3: perspective as well. It's believed that the photo estrogens in

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Speaker 3: soloy act on the breast tissue and the prostate tissue

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Speaker 3: in a way that tends to reduce that risk of

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Speaker 3: cancer developing in that area doesn't mean that it will

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Speaker 3: prevent it, no, it means that it can be shown

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Speaker 3: to reduce that risk over all. And then, as Susie mentioned,

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Speaker 3: when we think about soy and thyroid function, again it's

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Speaker 3: not bad, but you do need to be mindful that

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Speaker 3: if you have a thyroid condition, particularly hypothyroidism, so your

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Speaker 3: thyroid is acting at a lower level than what it's

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Speaker 3: supposed to and the majority of people with hypothyroidism will

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Speaker 3: be taking thyroid medication. So it's not that soy is bad,

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Speaker 3: it's just that with your thyroid medication, some research has

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Speaker 3: shown that the soy consumption can actually interact with your

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Speaker 3: thyroid medication. So it's generally recommended that if you do

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Speaker 3: have medication for a low functioning thyroid, that you avoid

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Speaker 3: soy foods around that three to four hour mark around

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Speaker 3: your medication. So if you take your medication in the morning,

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't be having any sort of soy containing foods,

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Speaker 3: whether that's at a marmae, whether that's tofu, whether that's

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Speaker 3: soy milk, until at least lunchtime, and so just be

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Speaker 3: mindful of that. You kind of want to split your

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Speaker 3: medication and your soy intake three to four hours apart.

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Speaker 3: If that's what the bulk of the research shows there.

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Speaker 3: So you know, there is a couple of key takeaways

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Speaker 3: when I was kind of trolling through the research, Susie.

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Speaker 3: In terms of female fertility, that was another thing that

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Speaker 3: a lot of people were a little bit wary about

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Speaker 3: with soy intake. And again it comes down to whether

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Speaker 3: you're a healthy individual, have you had fertility issues in

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Speaker 3: the past, or are you someone who's maybe just started

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Speaker 3: trying or in the future you hope to have kids.

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Speaker 3: So what the research is really showing there is that

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Speaker 3: more than one hundred milligrams of isoflavonoids from soy may

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Speaker 3: potentially interfere with female fertility. So again it's quite a

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Speaker 3: high amount, so we're not saying, yes, soy, go for

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Speaker 3: gold it as much as you want. Everything is about moderation.

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Speaker 3: Like we've said before, too much of anything isn't a

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Speaker 3: great thing, So we really want as much moderation and

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Speaker 3: diversity in our diet as possible. Now, we talked about

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Speaker 3: the effects on breast and prostate cancer, and the other one, Susie,

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Speaker 3: it's been shown to be really helpful for is menopause

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Speaker 3: and Perry as well, because soy can be really helpful

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Speaker 3: to help reduce hot flushes in women and also to

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Speaker 3: help maintain bone health. So soy is something I give

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Speaker 3: a lot of my ladies in Perry in menopause and

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Speaker 3: postmenopause to support them from a health perspective. Like you said,

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Speaker 3: if you've had that history of breast cancer, if you've

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Speaker 3: got some throad issues going on, I would definitely be

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Speaker 3: chatting to your doctor or someone like your specialist long

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Speaker 3: term and also potentially a dietician as well, really to

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Speaker 3: get that proper individualized advice. But that's kind of the

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Speaker 3: takeaways and Sawyer, I think for healthy individuals, I think

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Speaker 3: soy from whole food based products is always best. There's

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Speaker 3: a lot of high protein based soy like protein isolate

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Speaker 3: things on the market at the moment, protein bars, protein chips,

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Speaker 3: that sort of thing. I think we really need to

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Speaker 3: be wary because those foods are very overly processed. What

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Speaker 3: they do to our health long term, we just don't

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Speaker 3: really have that data to show. So I'm not a

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Speaker 3: big fan of soy from those process type foods, but

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Speaker 3: soy from etamami from soy milk, from tofu. I'm more

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Speaker 3: than happy with my clients having a couple of serves

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Speaker 3: of that a week because I think for the majority

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Speaker 3: of the healthy individuals out there, they're going to experience

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Speaker 3: positive health benefits from that. So that's kind of my

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Speaker 3: key takeaways from soy and Health Suzi.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think when we're speaking about it before

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Speaker 1: we got on there today, for me, it's always individuals

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Speaker 1: who overdo it. So for example, if they're soy fans

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Speaker 1: and they're having three or four soy milk coffees a day,

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Speaker 1: or they're in a tofu phase of plant based eating

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Speaker 1: and then eating tofu every single day, it's that concentrated amount.

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Speaker 1: So you can imagine if you're having tofu plus multiple

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Speaker 1: summut coffees, it's just too much of one nutrient. So

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Speaker 1: it's just a reminder of the more variety, the better.

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Speaker 1: And even if you do follow a plant based diet,

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Speaker 1: there's going to be benefit in mixing it up and

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Speaker 1: not just getting always your protein from one source. Because

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Speaker 1: you know, in a real life example, if you had

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Speaker 1: a vegan client lean who was having a couple of

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Speaker 1: soy coffees a day plus tofu plus a soy protein

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Speaker 1: shape that is far too much. So, like anything, we

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Speaker 1: always come back to moderation and one or two serves

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Speaker 1: is reasonable. Anything more than that, I think it's better

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Speaker 1: to spread out your food variety a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: All right. So the topic we're.

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Speaker 1: Going to talk about today which we had several requests for,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know whether it's because as a dietitian

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Speaker 1: there's things that you gloss over. But every time I

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Speaker 1: would see it come up, I'd be like, oh, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: fatty liver. I don't know, but you said to me,

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Speaker 1: we have to do it because so many people are asking,

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Speaker 1: and obviously it is of interest. So we are going

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Speaker 1: to cover our nutrition and fatty liver today because when

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Speaker 1: we had a look at the stats, it's actually quite significant.

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Speaker 1: One in three its stragons has fatty liver. So it

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Speaker 1: is a real area that we can intervene in when

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Speaker 1: it comes to our diet because often I think we

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Speaker 1: relate liver issues. So if you've been to the GP

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Speaker 1: and had your blood test and had asteris on your

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Speaker 1: LFTs and liver functions, and the doctor may have given

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Speaker 1: you the feedback of stop drinking alcohol, we sort of

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Speaker 1: get used to it. It's like, you know, slightly elevated cholesterol.

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Speaker 1: So many people have it. We perhaps don't pay as

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Speaker 1: much attention as we should to how serious it is.

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Speaker 1: But the liver is such a powerful organ in our body.

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Speaker 1: It's basically the organ that detoxifies and cleans up the

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Speaker 1: mess we put into it, and having a liver that's

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Speaker 1: far from its best is not great for our health

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Speaker 1: in general, aging our risk of diabetes. So we probably,

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Speaker 1: you know, even I need to take it a little

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Speaker 1: bit more seriously when clients are talking about it. Now,

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Speaker 1: fatty liver, as I said, we often relate to alcohol intake,

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Speaker 1: but certainly there's a group of individuals who'll come back

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Speaker 1: with markers of fatty liver, and it's non alcoholic fatty liver,

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Speaker 1: so they actually don't drink any alcohol at all. So

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Speaker 1: it's not always related to alcohol intake, although it certainly

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Speaker 1: can be. And it is just a marcro basically that

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Speaker 1: the liver is not working very well. It's storing fat,

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Speaker 1: and basically the more fat the liver has in it,

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Speaker 1: the less effectively it works, which has implications for our energy,

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Speaker 1: our long term health, our glucose regulation and blood glucose control,

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Speaker 1: long term and risk of diabetes. Basically, we're just going

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Speaker 1: to be far from our best. You know, if you're

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Speaker 1: waking up feeling tired and sluggish and know you've got

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Speaker 1: fatty liver, certainly the evidence is that active dietary intervention

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Speaker 1: can play a really big part in improving those symptoms

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Speaker 1: and basically improving your health and anti aging and long term. So,

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Speaker 1: of all the dietary evidence available when it comes to

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Speaker 1: fatty liver, it's an anti inflammatory dietary approach that has

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Speaker 1: the strongest evidence in terms of reversing that symptom, which

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Speaker 1: makes sense because it's an organ that detoxifies. So you

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Speaker 1: can imagine that the more antioxidants, the less processed carbohydrates

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Speaker 1: we're consuming, the less alcohol, having the seven to ten

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Speaker 1: serves of brightly colored fruit and vegetables, three to four

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Speaker 1: serves of good fats from extravergent olive oil, nuts and seeds,

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Speaker 1: oily fish, and most importantly lean minimizing our intake of

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Speaker 1: ultra processed foods and alcohol. If you are a regular drinker,

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Speaker 1: the relatively simple but perhaps not so simple in real

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Speaker 1: life changes to make to really improve the health of

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Speaker 1: your liver and even if you are not actively trying

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Speaker 1: to lose weight, but even adding those nutrients back here

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Speaker 1: and you should see improvements in those markers of inflammation

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Speaker 1: in the liver. And of course I should have said

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Speaker 1: there's also a genetic component. There'll be some people who

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Speaker 1: have got fatty deposits in the liver even though they

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Speaker 1: live a pretty healthy lifestyle. So certainly there is a

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Speaker 1: genetic component to that kind of disease state too. But

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Speaker 1: what I wanted to specifically talk about, LeAnn, was something

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Speaker 1: I've observed in my clients in recent weeks. But something

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Speaker 1: from a nutritional person is shown to have profound effects

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Speaker 1: on the functioning of our liver. Is that when I've

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Speaker 1: been reviewing diet diaries just even over the weekend, a

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Speaker 1: piece of feedback that I've had for clients is, well,

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Speaker 1: you're really hungry for so many snacks. So I'll get

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Speaker 1: a food diary back over a weekend and my clients

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Speaker 1: will be eating six or eight times, which means literally

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Speaker 1: eating every hour or two right through the day. And

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Speaker 1: of the evidence around healthy liver, some of the most

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Speaker 1: powerful evidence shows the benefits of intermittent fasting when it

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Speaker 1: comes to improving liver function, and metabolically and physiologically, that

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Speaker 1: makes sense because if you've got an organ that is

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Speaker 1: not working very well, it's not efficient, it's got fatty deposits,

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Speaker 1: it's slugging away, it's not at its best, and you're

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Speaker 1: constantly giving its sources of carbohydrates. So you might have

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Speaker 1: a piece of toast in the morning with an egg,

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Speaker 1: and then an hour or two later you might have

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Speaker 1: another milk based coffee, and then you might grab another

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Speaker 1: slice of toast or a piece of fruit. Each and

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Speaker 1: every time you have that eating occasion, particularly if the

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Speaker 1: food you're eating's carbohydrate based, you're requiring the liver to

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Speaker 1: work harder, and you've got a liver that's not working

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Speaker 1: very efficiently. It needs a rest to try and restore

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Speaker 1: and regenerate. And so when I was sort of preparing

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Speaker 1: for this potty today and I was having a look,

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Speaker 1: there is growing evidence, specifically from rap based studies, that

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Speaker 1: periods of intermittent fasting has a profound effect on liver

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Speaker 1: function and improvements in glucose regulation and basically giving your

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Speaker 1: liver a break from eating. If you've got fatty liver,

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Speaker 1: by fasting for even shorter term, increments of twelve hours,

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Speaker 1: sixteen hours every so often is going to be one

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Speaker 1: of the most powerful things you can do to help

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Speaker 1: regenerate and restore liver function over time if you've already

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Speaker 1: got fatty liver.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really interesting, isn't it. And I think I

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Speaker 3: just wanted to bring it right back to basis because

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Speaker 3: you started with talking about the non alcoholic fatty liver,

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Speaker 3: and so just letting our listeners know that there are

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Speaker 3: those two types. So there's the alcoholic futty liver where

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Speaker 3: the liver has become compromised in damage due to an

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Speaker 3: excessive alcohol intake. And there's the other type that we

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Speaker 3: used to cause Suzi back in the day, naple D.

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Speaker 3: And I don't know if you realize that, I certainly didn't.

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Speaker 3: They've actually changed the name to it's mathyl D. So

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Speaker 3: napple D used to stand for non alcoholic fatty liver disease.

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Speaker 3: Now it's termed mathyl D. Susie, it's a metabolic associated

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Speaker 3: fatty liver disease, and that's a lot more. I guess

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Speaker 3: like it's a better description because it really does describe

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Speaker 3: what can happen, like it's generally a lot of the

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Speaker 3: metabolic associated conditions that go with this type of fatty

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Speaker 3: liver disease. And I think it's also a big thing

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Speaker 3: to realize that just because you don't have that type

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Speaker 3: of fatty liver disease that's caused from alcohol, doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: that you should drink a lot of alcohol. You should

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Speaker 3: still really actively try to limit, if not have zero

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Speaker 3: alcohol in your diet, if you do have fatty liver disease.

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Speaker 3: Because I've seen a lot of clients SUSI when I

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Speaker 3: used to work at the hospital and they're saying, oh,

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Speaker 3: the doctors say, I don't have you know, the fatty

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Speaker 3: liver cause by alcohol, so I still drink. And it's like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: that's not great advice because your alcohol is impaired, it's

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Speaker 3: become damage. And if you keep going long term and

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Speaker 3: that liver becomes even more damage, it can lead to cirrhosis,

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Speaker 3: which is this like irreversible scarring of the liver, which

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Speaker 3: can actually lead to liver failure long term. So it's

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Speaker 3: a pretty serious condition, Susie. If it's not I guess

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Speaker 3: treated properly. And yes, some of the advice is just

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Speaker 3: around that general healthy eating. You know, we want to

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Speaker 3: kind of avoid for the most part, alcohol, no smoking,

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Speaker 3: regular exercise, a good diet, and as you mentioned, actually

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Speaker 3: really trying to improve our blood glucose control, whether that's

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Speaker 3: utilizing a little bit of intimate fasting, whether that's just

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Speaker 3: stopping that constant snacking and grazing all day long and

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Speaker 3: giving yourself a really good fast overnight, so you know,

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Speaker 3: stopping eating at seven eight pm and then not having

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Speaker 3: breakfast till kind of that seven eight am the next

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Speaker 3: morning can be really really helpful for some people with

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Speaker 3: buddy liver as well. But there's not a whole lot

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Speaker 3: of you know, evidence or research that the Mediterranean style

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Speaker 3: diet has been really shown because it's got that anti

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Speaker 3: inflammatory effect to be a really good style of eating

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Speaker 3: for those with futty liver disease. And of course, Susie,

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Speaker 3: we forgot to mention getting your waist measurement down as well,

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Speaker 3: so that can be a really really powerful strategy when

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Speaker 3: it comes to futty liver disease and long term health

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Speaker 3: and reducing your risk of other types of metabolic diseases

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Speaker 3: long term. So just to recap, I know we've talked

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Speaker 3: about the waste measurements before, Susie. But if you do

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Speaker 3: have better liver up in your female, initially you really

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Speaker 3: want to get your waist under ninety centimeters, and long term,

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Speaker 3: from a health perspective, you want your waist under eighty centimeters.

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Speaker 3: And if you're a male listening, initially you'd really want

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Speaker 3: to aim to get your waist under one hundred centimeters

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Speaker 3: of good health. Long term you want to get your

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Speaker 3: waist under ninety four centimeters as well.

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Speaker 1: True, And I think a few strategies or take home

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Speaker 1: messages if this is you and you do know you

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Speaker 1: have elevated markers on your liver. The first is that

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Speaker 1: I would suggest a break from alcohol if you are

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Speaker 1: a drinker, because it's always interesting to contrast if you

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Speaker 1: know that you drink regularly, even a moderate amount, and

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Speaker 1: you have a month or two away from the alcohol

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Speaker 1: and have your bloods redone and you can see a

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Speaker 1: profound effect on your liver health, you know that that's

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Speaker 1: a risk for you. If you stop drinking and there's

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Speaker 1: no change, you know, perhaps there's other things going on.

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Speaker 1: So I think it gives you a good line in

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Speaker 1: the sand about how your liver function going in relation

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Speaker 1: to alcohol. And I think a complete break is worth checking,

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Speaker 1: you know, to see what your tolerance is like. I

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Speaker 1: think you need to really extend the period of time

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Speaker 1: in between eating occasions. Every two hours is too frequently,

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Speaker 1: you know, think back to the old days with your grandma.

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Speaker 1: She probably had her breakfast at seven, lunch at twelve,

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Speaker 1: dinner at six, and very little in between. So really

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Speaker 1: try and extend that period in between eating occasions. And

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Speaker 1: that includes milk based coffee. So try and have at

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Speaker 1: least three to four hours in between meals to allow

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Speaker 1: those hormones that regulate things like our glucose levels and

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Speaker 1: allow organs to have a break without food, and certainly

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Speaker 1: a twelve hour fast overnight at a minimum, So try

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Speaker 1: and stop eating by eight and then perhaps not eat

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Speaker 1: to eight the next day. And I do think in

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Speaker 1: this instance an occasional longer fast. I try and encourage

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Speaker 1: my clients to have sixt eight hours once a week,

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Speaker 1: So for example, you might have a big dinner out

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Speaker 1: on a Saturday night and then not eat until late

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Speaker 1: morning Sunday.

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Speaker 2: Anything that you can.

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Speaker 1: Do like that without resorting to extreme fasting is going

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Speaker 1: to be a better and the third take home message

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Speaker 1: apart from sort of eating more fresh fruit and vegetables.

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Speaker 1: Is really pay attention to your carbohydrate loads. It's a

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Speaker 1: very intricate relationship between carbohydrate and glucose metabolism and liver health.

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Speaker 1: And if you are one of the people who has

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Speaker 1: the old non alcoholic fatty liver so you actually don't drink,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be really important that you keep an

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Speaker 1: eye on your carbohydrate loads. Now, certainly I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: eat low carbohydrate diet, but I'm saying if you're having

433
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,320
Speaker 1: say two hundred grams of carbohydrate per day, and you

434
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,439
Speaker 1: cut it down to one twenty one forty, or just

435
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: be mindful of dense sources of carbohydrate, things like fruit, juices, grapes,

436
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 1: dried fruit, white bread, turkish bread, sour dough. We're going

437
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 1: to talk about bagels in a minute. Anything that has

438
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 1: a very heavy carbohydrate load puts more pressure on insulin

439
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 1: and the liver, and that may be part of the

440
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,680
Speaker 1: underlying issue that's making your liver health worse. So pay

441
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 1: a lot more attention to the quality and type of

442
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 1: carbohydrate you're eating, and instead sauce it from natural sources

443
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 1: things like your legumes, your vegetables, whole grains, oats as

444
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 1: a pose to any form of refined carbohydrate, because the

445
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 1: good news is that even though when your liver is

446
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 1: not in the best of health, you're probably not feeling

447
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: the best and certainly your body won't be efficiently metabolically

448
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 1: as efficient as it should be. Livers are very good

449
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 1: at recovering. You know, when you give it the space

450
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: and the nutrition it needs, youd be surprised how much

451
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,679
Speaker 1: it can repair itself. That's why we know livers are

452
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 1: so interesting as an organ. So if you really put

453
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 1: some focus in time, you'll be surprised you can actually

454
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 1: reverse a lot of those symptoms, and that will be

455
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: a very powerful step towards your health long term. So

456
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 1: if any of our listeners does give that a go

457
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 1: and perhaps have a little break from alcohol or really

458
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 1: look at improving their diet over the next few months

459
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: and sees a change in your liver, markets, please let

460
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,199
Speaker 1: us know because I think that's inspiring for everyone listening

461
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 1: to know when the you know, the dietary interventions do work,

462
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,440
Speaker 1: and indeed we see it with our clients quite frequently.

463
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 1: All right, now, that brings us to the final question

464
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: of today. Now, Lee, I don't know had a little

465
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 1: bit of a I don't want to say a tiff

466
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 1: because we don't fire shure we disagree, but we don't

467
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 1: at the end of the year and we are getting

468
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 1: more irritable, and we were talking about we had a

469
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: listener question come through on bagels. Now I love a bagel,

470
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: particularly when I'm in New York, like anybody else does.

471
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: But we had a listener question to ask if they

472
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 1: were healthy, and you know, Leanne said, you know, we

473
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 1: have to be careful because you know, we're always promoting

474
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: a lot of information about weight and carbohydrate and people

475
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 1: think that we're promoting restrictive diets.

476
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 2: Actually she was talking about me.

477
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 1: And I said to her, yeah, but we have to

478
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 1: be honestly, and like a bagel is not healthy.

479
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 2: It's like the most refined carbohydrate.

480
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 1: Like a bagel's got about sixty to eighty grams of

481
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 1: carbohydrate perserved because if you think about the thickness and

482
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 1: the density of the flower, it's not like a slice

483
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 1: of bread. It's like fully packed in there. So that's

484
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: the equivalent of carbohydrates some people need almost for the

485
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 1: entire day. So we were saying we were just sort

486
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 1: of nutting it out a little bit as colleagues about

487
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 1: whether we thought it was healthy. Now, for me, I

488
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: don't think a bagels healthy at all, but I think

489
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,120
Speaker 1: it can be certainly incorporated into a healthy diet occasionally,

490
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: like when you're in New York walking twenty kilometers per

491
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: day or maybe once a week, like you know, traditional

492
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 1: families might have it as a special breakfast spread on

493
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: a Sunday with locks and cream cheese, but it certainly

494
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't be a food I would recommend people eat regularly

495
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,640
Speaker 1: because of just that density of carbohydro, unless they're about

496
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: to go on a massive mountain hike. So you can

497
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 1: rest assured that we certainly nutted out here. We're certainly

498
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: not always on the same page. So I say bagels

499
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: in New York or very occasionally. I don't know, Liam,

500
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 1: what do you say?

501
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 3: I was like, for God's like, SUSI don't jump on

502
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 3: the podcast and bash bagels because we're gonna get hammered online.

503
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 3: Like it's not like the question was our bagel's healthy?

504
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 3: And I think that I think it's a loaded question

505
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 3: to begin with, right, like what is health? Like? Do

506
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 3: you mean healthy for weight loss? Do you mean healthy

507
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 3: for the family? Do you mean healthy for your growing teenagers?

508
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 3: Do you mean healthy for yourself? And you're sixty seven,

509
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,719
Speaker 3: you're retired, and you don't really do much exercise, So

510
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 3: I think our bagel's healthy. They are a carbohydrate. The

511
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 3: easiest answer, yes, but also no, because there's so many

512
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 3: intricacies around it. Like Susie said, you can't really get

513
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 3: a really beautif for dense, nine grain type of bagel.

514
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 2: Right.

515
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 3: The majority of bagels are white, they're highly you know,

516
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 3: they're using refined flower, they're packed in there. They're quite

517
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 3: a heavy carbohydrate load, Like Susie said, Can you incorporate

518
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 3: them into a healthy eating plant? Absolutely? Are they good

519
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 3: for growing kids who need a lot of energy? Absolutely?

520
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 3: Are they the best thing for women trying to lose weight?

521
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 3: Probably not? Maybe half a bagel, can you you know

522
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 3: HEALTHI fire them by putting on some beautiful smoked salmon

523
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 3: and some tomatoes and some mushrooms and getting around it

524
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 3: that way. Yes, But just a bagel with a bit

525
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 3: of cream, cheese or jam on it. If you're looking

526
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 3: for a standard black or white answer, the answer is

527
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 3: probably no. So we're not on here bashing bagels, but

528
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 3: we're just saying everything has a little bit of context

529
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 3: around it, and I think you need to understand that.

530
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 3: You know, we've surveyed over a thousand of our listeners, Susie,

531
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 3: and more than eighty percent of them listen to us

532
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 3: for weight loss advice basically, so most of our advice

533
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 3: is geared towards women wanting to lose weight. But from

534
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 3: a health perspective, you can absolutely incorporate bagels, but I

535
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 3: think you just need to be aware that, you know,

536
00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 3: if you've got to be incorporating them regularly, you want

537
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 3: to be someone who's doing a lot of activity needs

538
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 3: that higher carbohydrate load. And then what you put on

539
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 3: the bagel absolutely matters as well. You know, butter and

540
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 3: jam or full fat cream cheese is very different to

541
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 3: loading up you know, half a bagel or a bagel

542
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 3: with a couple of eggs in a bit of scrambled

543
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 3: vegetables or something. So the topping that goes on a

544
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 3: bagel also is very important, I believe as well. And

545
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 3: if you can find a bagel with some seeds they

546
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 3: were using a different type of flour, like maybe some

547
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,719
Speaker 3: rye flower with some pumpkin seeds in it. There are

548
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 3: a couple of varieties of bagels. If you go to

549
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,719
Speaker 3: like a specific bagel kind of shop, they're obviously going

550
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 3: to be a lot better for you than the standard

551
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 3: white type of bagel. And then there are some newer,

552
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 3: like lower type bagels in the supermarket. Susie had a

553
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 3: client who love bagels and she said, oh, can I

554
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 3: try this? And I said, yeah, absolutely. We worked it

555
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 3: into our meal plant and then she toasted it, put

556
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 3: the toppings that we said and she's like, oh, it's

557
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 3: horribly and I can't do it. So she's like, I'd

558
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 3: rather go with that than try the lower carb ones.

559
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 3: So if you enjoy them, you know, potentially that could

560
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 3: be a better option for you. I think they've got

561
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,239
Speaker 3: a little bit more protein in them as well. But

562
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 3: I really do think like I'm a big fan of

563
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 3: what you love, like what you truly enjoy, and make

564
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 3: it more occasional. If it's not something that is going

565
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 3: to be the best thing for your house moving forward,

566
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 3: you know, have it occasionally. Have it how you like it.

567
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 3: With the full fat cream cheese, I love it, and

568
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 3: that with the normal white bagel. Have that occasionally versus

569
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 3: trying to work in something like a lower carb one

570
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 3: every other day. Because you think it's a little bit

571
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 3: better for you, but the taste just isn't there. Therefore

572
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 3: you're not getting as much enjoyment from it.

573
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: There is nothing better than a New York bagel in

574
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,640
Speaker 1: New York because of the water. So I remember when

575
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: they were setting up a bagel shop here in Bondai,

576
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: and the company that was starting it actually was importing

577
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: water from New York because they knew that to get

578
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: the sort of consistency and taste of a New York

579
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: style bagel, that was the hard water that's over there

580
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: used to make that, which is so fascinating because they

581
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,479
Speaker 1: you know, if you've been to New York and well,

582
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: I guess it's many American states, which is New York

583
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: springs to mind. Their bagels are just unbelievable and they

584
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: have like, you know, twenty different flavored cream cheese. It's

585
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: like it's just the way to have it, you know,

586
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: it's like passed through in Italy.

587
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 2: It's just not the same when you do it here.

588
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: So I think I just know how good they are

589
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: and would prefer to have it. I have an everything

590
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: bagel when I'm there with spring onion cream cheese.

591
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 2: Just out of inches.

592
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: So do I yep, yeah, but I tend to wait

593
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: to have the real thing because yeah, apparently the water

594
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: is what makes a real New York style bagel. So

595
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 1: you heard it here first on the Nutrition Couch. All right, Well,

596
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: that brings us to the end of another Sunday episode.

597
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: Please keep telling your friends and go online to the

598
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: Nutritioncouch dot com to see our latest products, including our

599
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 1: online seminars why Wait, which I've been referring a lot

600
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: of clients too lately, and also Hack your Hormones, and

601
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: we will see you on Wednesday for our regular midweek

602
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: motivational episode drop.

603
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 3: Have a good week, everyone,