1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: You would have heard obviously that I mentioned just a 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: short time ago that those transit offices on the Northern 3 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: Territory buses are now going to have greater powers following 4 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: legislation legislative changes. These changes do aim to create a 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: safer and more pleasant to experience for both travelers and 6 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: also drivers. Now joining me on the line to tell 7 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: us a little bit more about this from a driver's 8 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: safety perspective, I think you'd have to say is the 9 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: Transport Workers Union Branch Secretary for the Northern Territory, Ian Smith, 10 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: Good morning to you. 11 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 2: Ian, Hi Catie Hore, you go not too bad. 12 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: Ian. You and I spoke less than a week ago 13 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: about some of the issues that we're seeing with anti 14 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: social behavior on the buses, so I was interested to 15 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: see that the Northern Territory government are today. Obviously from 16 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: today there's going to be these changes for our transit officers. Ian, 17 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: do you think it's going to make much of a difference, Well. 18 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: You know there's anything that improves socom and network is 19 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: going to make a difference. Look, we know we've got 20 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 2: a serious problem in Darwen and we and we know 21 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 2: that we've been calling for more transit officers with more power. 22 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 2: This is an important step to deliver that. But it's 23 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 2: not just in more tsos and tsos have more power, 24 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 2: while we also need is more stuff for the drivers, 25 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 2: like the full driver protection screen, which we know there's 26 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 2: a couple to be installed in the very near future. 27 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: That's going to help. The education program is extremely important, 28 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 2: and I know the NT government and the tsos are 29 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 2: working closely with Racy Nation people. All these sort of 30 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,639 Speaker 2: things are going to help we need. You know, Dalen 31 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: is a sophisticated city regardless of what people seek, and 32 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 2: it needs a great public transport network. And now it's 33 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: got a great network. It's just not safe at the moment. 34 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: And these measures we hope are going to make a 35 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: difference from only time will tell. 36 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: So I guess from your perspective, you know, talk us through, 37 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: talk us through what you see these changes as being, 38 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: and you know how they will help. 39 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 2: Well, well, we'll do once well tsos have a powder 40 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 2: arrests and the big passengers and banded passengers on the 41 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 2: off the network. Now the tsos are floating around and 42 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,679 Speaker 2: it's their job, it's not the driver's job to pick 43 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: out band passengers and things like that. It is the 44 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 2: TSO's and the police's job. They'll have this. The drivers 45 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 2: will you know, the repeat defenders will know. And if 46 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 2: and it probably gets to the stage you say no, 47 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 2: if they're pulling up the bus stop mostee a refret 48 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 2: pre defender that just won't stop. Now, that's what i'd 49 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 2: the advice I'd do. And like, we don't want to 50 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 2: see situations like I heard last Sunday where Jos the 51 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 2: driver took the drastic act of returning the bus to 52 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 2: the depot. That's just not good enough. So more tsos 53 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 2: actually getting them on the buses, and you know they 54 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: can't be on every bus, but on the particular nights 55 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: and everything like that gets the tsos on the buses 56 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 2: so that that assists. It's all going to make a difference. 57 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: And look, we're working as hard as we can for 58 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: the NC government and these measures are going to help. 59 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: It's not going to be at all that be a 60 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: w land or, but it's a step in the right direction. 61 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: So obviously from your perspective, you know, the changes are 62 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: a step, like you said, in the right direction. Do 63 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: we have enough of those tsos. 64 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 2: No, We've still been calling for more. I know there's 65 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 2: two about the Startment of Near Future, and I look 66 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 2: as with everything as they come out in the pandemic, 67 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: you just can't get a fear so off the shelf. 68 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 2: You know, these people have licenses, they take time to 69 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: train and all those sort of things, and really see, 70 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 2: the are special people. I know in March when I 71 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 2: spent the evening riding around the network, the job they 72 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 2: do is absolutely sensational. They are great people and they've 73 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 2: got a very difficult job and you know some of them, 74 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: you know it is it is hard work. So we're 75 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: not thinking them off the shelf. But this is once again, 76 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 2: it's anything that improves safety. We're not going to say 77 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: bad things. It's great. So well, we just. 78 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: Need more from your perspectives. How exactly will they be 79 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: able to ban people like, say, for example, someone's band 80 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: because they've been running a mark, you know, at the 81 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: at the interchange or on a bus. Everybody knows that 82 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: they're sort of you know that they're not doing the 83 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: right thing. But how exactly would you ban someone like, 84 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: how do you reckon they'd be able to police it? 85 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: Well, that's people on the ground, that's the issue. It's 86 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 2: you know, they're not he wouldn't. He would hope there's 87 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 2: not hundreds of people banned. There will just be certain 88 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: individuals that are really unwill we and if we can 89 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 2: keep them off the network, maybe it's once again it's 90 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 2: a bit of a consequence for the for those that 91 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 2: are want to misbehave and act in the anti social 92 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 2: behavior that there's a consequence that you know, if you 93 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: don't behave, you're going to have to walk basically, and 94 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 2: the TSO's job will be to a minister that not 95 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 2: the drivers. The driver might identify and he can pass 96 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 2: the message on. There's not the driver's job to kick 97 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 2: someone off as a band driver's job will be to 98 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 2: inform that their death that there's a banded passenger tempting 99 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 2: getting on the bus or on the bus, and then 100 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: the tsos and the police this job would be too 101 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 2: remove the SO. 102 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: From what I can gather, and you know, it sounds 103 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 1: like they're good changes. They're they're welcome by the Transport 104 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 1: Workers Union. But the big concern here is that we've 105 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: got to actually make sure we've got enough staff to 106 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: be able to police, you know, to be able to 107 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: do these jobs that they now have the powers to do. 108 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: Absolutely Plus we need the full driver protection system. So 109 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 2: the security screen it's a train that gives the drivers 110 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 2: full protection, is maned, is so important because that will 111 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: have the driver to do his job. Yeah, if we 112 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 2: can get the driver to do his job and not 113 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: have to worry about being hit, stab whatever, which these 114 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 2: screens will do, he can get on his job. If 115 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 2: he's got unruly passengers on the bus, he can contact 116 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: the authorities and if there's enough tsos on there, we'll 117 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 2: be able to get them engaged, get them on the 118 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 2: bus and get them get those people off the bus. 119 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: And I think once people start the seed as a 120 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 2: consequence to their actions, certainly, certainly you would expect it 121 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 2: with fear change in behavior. And that's what we really want, 122 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: we want you know, Darwin is so sophisticated city. It's 123 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 2: got a great public transport system. It's buses is all 124 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: you have. It needs to be safe so that people 125 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 2: can have the confidence to ride on it whenever it's running. 126 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: And that's what we're aiming to do. And I'm sure 127 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: every territorium wants. 128 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: That, oh absolutely. And you know it's something that you 129 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: and I have spoken about on so many occasions. Ian 130 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: last time we spoke, you know, last week we were 131 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: discussing the fact that there had been that terrible anti 132 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: social behavior incident which saw a bus driver we'll do 133 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: something quite unprecedented, and that was to turn a bus 134 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: around and take it back to the depot based on 135 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: that terrible behavior. Mate, how have things been going over 136 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: the last week since we last spoke. 137 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: Ah, Well, there's incidents to stay to day, and there's 138 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 2: a couple we've had unconfirmed, but I mean they are 139 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 2: it is a problem. That still is a problem. But 140 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 2: and such we're getting announcements that we've had today. So 141 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 2: we're going to continue to work with the government. We're 142 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 2: going to continue to work with the companies, but we 143 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 2: need to see change, and change sometime takes some time. 144 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 2: But the rest assured. For our member's sake, we won't 145 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 2: rest until there's a proper, efficient system in place that 146 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 2: enables the drivers to go to work, through their job 147 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: properly and go home safe to their family. And then 148 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: by doing that, hopefully then we can get on top 149 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 2: of the behavior that happens on out of the indushoss 150 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: and on the buses so that the network comes safe 151 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: to the general public. And that's your goal, and we're 152 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 2: working hard to get that. So I've got to say 153 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: this is great, this is good news. I'd love to 154 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 2: say it's great news, but it's good news. It's a 155 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 2: good step in the right direction. Let's step behind the 156 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: tsos and the general public's got a role to play. 157 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 2: If they see something happening out my neck that they 158 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 2: don't like, bring the ring the authorities. I learned it before, 159 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 2: or the bus drivers get there, and intervention is probably 160 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 2: more important than trying to wait until the actions occur 161 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 2: in the intervene before it happens. With enough tsos on 162 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 2: the ground and security, we're going to make the network 163 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 2: safer and these incidents become very few. That's that's our own. 164 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: And obviously not your area of expertise. But do you 165 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: have any idea how many of those transport safety officers 166 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: there are. 167 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 2: I think there's nineteen and there's another two to come on. 168 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: I think that's two to say, going to be twenty one. Yeah, 169 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 2: you know, and the problem times necessarily the real problem 170 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: times on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sundays are they seen 171 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 2: to be the problem that's when we needed the most. 172 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 2: So that's what we need to work with closely. And 173 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 2: the problem area is, you know, there's lots of things 174 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 2: to be done upgrades and equipment, so it's easy to 175 00:08:54,280 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: identify closer working relationships with everybody in the in the network, 176 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 2: from the drivers right through to the companies, to the 177 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 2: police and the tsos. And I know the committing the 178 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 2: Meat's quarterly is working very hard to address those issues. 179 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 2: So we're going to keep pushing, yeah, as pushing as 180 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 2: hard as we can. As I said, this is a 181 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 2: good step. It's not the end of the it's not 182 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: the be all of ENDEL, but it's a good step 183 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: in the right direction. 184 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: Well Ian Smith, the Transport Workers Union Secretary for the 185 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 1: Northern Territory. I appreciate your time this morning. Thanks so 186 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: much for having a chat with me. 187 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 2: Thanks Katie, thank you.