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Speaker 1: We now a lot of focus, of course on politics

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Speaker 1: and Parliament this week, but yesterday I learned that the

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Speaker 1: Professional Pharmacists of Australia, the members here in the Northern Territory,

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Speaker 1: are threatening industrial action if major pharmacy vacancy rates, which

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Speaker 1: potentially undermine patient welfare and safety, are not urgently addressed. Now.

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Speaker 1: The PPA as they're known, the members at Royal Darwin

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Speaker 1: Hospital as well as the Alla Springs Hospital. They're currently

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Speaker 1: operating with a thirty percent vacancy rate, with Catherine Hospital

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Speaker 1: facing potential closure of its pharmacy department in a few

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Speaker 1: months time, unable to find qualifying candidates despite ongoing attempts

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Speaker 1: at recruitment. Now it is a concerning situation, one which

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Speaker 1: would impact many Territorians, particularly those in Catherine who are

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Speaker 1: already concerned about some of the access issues when it

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Speaker 1: comes to seeing health professionals. Now joining me on the

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Speaker 1: line is Professional Pharmacists Australia lead organizer Jessica Hensman. Good

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Speaker 1: morning to you, Jessica.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time. Jessica, what is

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Speaker 1: causing the thirty percent vacancy race in the Darwin and

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Speaker 1: Alas Springs Hospitals for pharmacy.

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Speaker 2: So the crux of it is the government isn't providing

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Speaker 2: market pay rates. So it's really hard to attract and

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Speaker 2: retain the skilled pharmacists that we need here because our

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Speaker 2: nearest competitors are offering thirty forty more in wages and

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Speaker 2: conditions and we just can't get the bums on the seats.

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Speaker 2: When you're competing against greater, greater wages and conditions, well.

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Speaker 1: This is it. It makes it incredibly difficult. And then

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Speaker 1: I mean you look at the cost of living and

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Speaker 1: I know that you know, you may be able to

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Speaker 1: argue of if you live in a more regional part

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Speaker 1: of Australia it could be slightly cheaper rent wise, it

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Speaker 1: c but if you pay doesn't keep up, it makes

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Speaker 1: it really tough to get people to move to the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory to fill those jobs.

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Speaker 2: It really does. And that's you know, what our members

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Speaker 2: are telling us is that you know you're paying the

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Speaker 2: same rent as you would in Brisbane, only you get

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Speaker 2: a job down there and you paid forty percent more.

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Speaker 1: Yeah wow, Jessica. Obviously a huge concern at both Royal

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Speaker 1: Darwin Hospital and Alice Springs Hospital operating at a thirty

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Speaker 1: percent vacancy rate, But what's the situation in Catherine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so right now they're looking at one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: vacancy rate. They're surviving at the moment on an external

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Speaker 2: using an external locom firm, which is bringing in kind

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Speaker 2: of externally contracted workers, but there's no guarantee that those

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Speaker 2: workers will continue to be available. So they are facing

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Speaker 2: the reality of no pharmacists at that hospital, which is

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Speaker 2: dire and it's really concerning for patient safety and the

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Speaker 2: delivery of services in those areas.

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Speaker 1: Jessica, to some people listening this morning, if they maybe

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Speaker 1: haven't had to go to the hospital and then go,

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Speaker 1: you know, go through the hospital pharmacy, they may not

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Speaker 1: understand just how big an impact this is going to have.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain to our listeners the role of the

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Speaker 1: pharmacy at the hospitals and you know, the kinds of

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Speaker 1: things that you guys are dealing with. I know that

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Speaker 1: you know when you look at cancer patients, for example,

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Speaker 1: the work that you guys do in making sure people

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Speaker 1: have got the medication that they need is instrumental, that's right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously a core part of the work that

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Speaker 2: pharmacists do is making sure that they can dispense medications

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Speaker 2: and get that into the hand of the people that

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Speaker 2: need it. But I think the less understood part of

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Speaker 2: their role is that they reduce the frequency and severe

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Speaker 2: of medication errors. Yep, and that's huge. You know, there's

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Speaker 2: a known rate of one to two prescribing errors per

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Speaker 2: patient per admission, and pharmacists for the last line of

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Speaker 2: defense in picking those up and making sure harm doesn't

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Speaker 2: occur to patients because of these errors. And if they're

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Speaker 2: not there, we know that that harm is going to occur,

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Speaker 2: and it's already occurring because we're running at such high

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Speaker 2: vacancy rates. The pharmacists are trying to do the jobs

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Speaker 2: of five people in one so their roles are very

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Speaker 2: very critical, while they often misunderstood.

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Speaker 1: Jessica in terms of the barriers that may be presented.

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Speaker 1: If Catherine, for example, were to no longer have a

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Speaker 1: pharmacy at the hospital, what could.

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Speaker 2: It mean, Well, it'll basically mean that people for some services,

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Speaker 2: like cancer services may potentially have to head to Darwin,

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Speaker 2: which is obviously horrible. If anybody has personally gone through

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Speaker 2: cancer or have friends or family that have been through that,

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Speaker 2: the last thing you want to do is be traveling

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Speaker 2: for hours and hours on end. And there's also a

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Speaker 2: concern that, well, how long can Darwin pick up that

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Speaker 2: extra workload? Are we going to be looking at having

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Speaker 2: to fly people out of the state to receive cancer

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Speaker 2: treatment and that that is not acceptable and it's incredibly

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Speaker 2: distressing to our members to think that that could be

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Speaker 2: the future that they face.

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Speaker 1: You know, some some may be listening this morning and going, well,

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Speaker 1: how can that have to drive to Darwin? Is there

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Speaker 1: not a situation where they can then go to you know,

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Speaker 1: to another pharmacy in town. But it's really not that simple,

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Speaker 1: is it.

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Speaker 2: No, it's really not that simple. You know, pharmacists play

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Speaker 2: a vital role in checking chemo and other cancer treatments

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Speaker 2: and assisting the doctors to navigate what is an extremely

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Speaker 2: complex funding model and extremely complex medication. You know, if

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Speaker 2: you get the wrong dose or you're getting the wrong

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Speaker 2: kind of therapy, that can cause irreversible harm. So it's

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Speaker 2: not the case of just driving down the road to

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Speaker 2: somewhere else. Unfortunately.

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Speaker 1: Are you concerned that the shortages are putting patients at

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Speaker 1: risk or could put patients at risk?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yes, yeah, we are very concerned, and you know,

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Speaker 2: our members have never threatened industrial actions in their history,

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Speaker 2: Wow and territory. So this is a desperate call for help.

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Speaker 2: They're saying, please, somebody do something. They're out there with

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Speaker 2: end and they're really worried and they're doing everything that

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Speaker 2: they can to protect patient safety, but they feel they're

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Speaker 2: just up against it and nobody's listening to them.

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Speaker 1: Has there been any request for a meeting with the

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Speaker 1: minister the Health Minister Steve eaging too and where is

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Speaker 1: that at?

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Speaker 2: Yes? So we did reach out and unfortunately we see

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Speaker 2: received a returned letter saying that they weren't interested in meeting,

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Speaker 2: which was really crushing to our members because there's nowhere

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Speaker 2: else in turn. You know, where does the buck stop?

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Speaker 2: You think it would stop with the Health minister. When

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Speaker 2: the Health Minister says they're not interested in meeting.

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Speaker 1: That's unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: Where do you go?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's quite unbelievable to me. Look, Parliament's sitting this week,

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Speaker 1: so I really hope that somebody in a position of

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Speaker 1: power is listening and understands the impact that it's going

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Speaker 1: to have and why we need to make sure that

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Speaker 1: we do not lose this service, because that's the other

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Speaker 1: part of it is, you know, you start to lose

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Speaker 1: services like this, and you know, like we live in

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Speaker 1: a capital city here in Darwin. But whether you're talking

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Speaker 1: about Darwin or whether you're talking about Alice Springs or Catherine,

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Speaker 1: people reserve the right for that access to good health services.

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Speaker 1: We live in Australia for goodness.

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Speaker 2: Sake, exactly. Yeah, it's horrifying and I agree with you.

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Speaker 2: I really hope somebody is listening to this and that

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Speaker 2: they take action, because that's what our members want. They

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Speaker 2: don't want to have to go down this path of

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Speaker 2: taking industrial action if they're just looking for someone to

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Speaker 2: listen to them.

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Speaker 1: If they do go down the path of industrial action,

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Speaker 1: what would it look like, So.

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Speaker 2: It'll look like many things. They have designed the action

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Speaker 2: to ensure that patient safety won't be harmed. They've really

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Speaker 2: designed the actions to make things difficult for the government

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Speaker 2: because they know that the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

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Speaker 2: So I think for starters, it will look like it

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Speaker 2: will look like not basically claiming your PBS medication, so

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Speaker 2: it will affect the government financially. That will be the

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Speaker 2: first thing right, is that they won't be claiming for

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Speaker 2: medication costs, and you know you're looking at about a

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Speaker 2: million dollars a week when pharmacists start taking those kind

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Speaker 2: of actions. So we're trying. Members are trying to do

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Speaker 2: everything they possibly can to protect patient safety while also,

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Speaker 2: as is the intent of industrial action caused frustration to

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Speaker 2: the government so that they will listen. So that will

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Speaker 2: be really the first cab off the rank is that

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Speaker 2: financial action, and then they'll be considering things step by

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Speaker 2: step moving forward. They might be looking at reducing some services,

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Speaker 2: which means that other health professionals will have to work

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Speaker 2: harder to pick up that slack.

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Speaker 1: Well, Jessica, look, we're going to get in contact with

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Speaker 1: the Minister for Health's office. Crystal my producer, no doubt

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Speaker 1: already on to that. She's given me the thumbs up.

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Speaker 1: She will get in contact with them and see if

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Speaker 1: we can get some kind of response. I think that

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Speaker 1: it sounds as though a meeting needs to happen sooner

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Speaker 1: rather than later. Jessica, I really appreciate you making our

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Speaker 1: listeners aware of this situation and having a chat with

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Speaker 1: us today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for your time.

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Speaker 1: Thank you