WEBVTT - Daughter 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:17.439 This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother, teacher, friend, 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:21.320 missing for twenty six years. 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:25.040 You know, no sign that she was going to vanish. 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:25.479 That's for sure. 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:30.040 The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance. 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:32.240 I'm not sure if it was intentional or there's something 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:34.120 more foul afoot. 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.080 If you could imagine a teacher coming straight from say 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.400 little house on the prairie to the eighties, that was 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:40.080 Marian Barter. 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:44.080 What I say, whether. 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.400 You find Marian Barter dead or alive, I honestly believe 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:50.559 somebody has that key piece of information. 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:54.760 And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum. 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:59.440 Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave. 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.880 I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:08.480 that somebody knows something. 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:17.240 The Lady Vanishers episode fifty one, I'm Alison Sandy. 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:18.880 And I'm Brian Seymour. 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:25.240 On the eighteenth of January nineteen seventy a baby girl, 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:29.720 a loner. Evelyn Jacqueline Wooters was born a King George 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:33.679 the Fifth Hospital now known as Royal Prince Alfred Hospital 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:39.600 in Sydney. Her twenty three year old Hungarian born mother 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:45.559 was a loner Wooters knie Kinsel. Her father was thirty 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.360 years old and listed as a Belgian born photographer named 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:52.680 Willie Wooters, just one of the dozens of names he'd 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:57.480 be known by throughout the course of his life. The 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:00.560 couple had married only a year prior, and much of 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:03.280 the child's early life would be spent with her grandmother 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:11.040 in Brussels, Belgium. Everyone called her Evelyn. Old photos of 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.240 Evelyn as a toddler show her smiling warmly with dark 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:19.079 eyes and a shock of golden curls. Another has a 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:22.280 beaming cheekily as her young mum pulls her in tightly 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:29.560 for a hug. But troubled times lay ahead for this 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.960 little girl, triggered by the premature death of her mother. 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:41.680 At the age of just thirty one, Elona Reed was 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.800 found slumped in the driver's seat of her stationary car 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:49.119 in Melbourne at five point fifteen pm on July thirteenth, 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:55.400 nineteen seventy seven. She had apparently divorced Willie Wooters by 0:02:55.400 --> 0:03:01.600 this stage and married Michael Reid. Alona hadn't been involved 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:04.280 in a crash. There were no marks on her body. 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:08.359 An autopsy found nothing wrong with most of her organs. 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:11.960 At the time, it was put down to a heart attack. 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:19.400 Her death certificate, registered in the Australian state of Victoria, 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:24.600 lists the cause of death as myocardial ischemia, which occurs 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.440 when blood flow to the heart is obstructed by a 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.760 build up of plaques, which can happen slowly over time 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:34.280 or quite rapidly if a blood clot forms or there 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:38.480 is a spasm in an artery. Tissue samples were taken 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.800 from a body to be tested for toxicity, the evidence 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:48.000 of poison or other substances. The coroner's report reveals there 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.760 was a gruel light material in the stomach and there 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:59.000 were no drugs, medicines or poisons present. However, a paper 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:02.760 trail over several months shows chronic delays to the testing, 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:06.600 especially to the third type of chemical tests the analyzes 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:10.480 for poisons, so that even by March the following year, 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:14.360 some eight months later, the death certificate still had not 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:18.960 been issued. There was a major backlog in the government 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:24.960 pathology laboratories. A complaint regarding the delay was made to 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:29.720 the Ombardsman by law firm Morris Blackburn because Alona Kinsell's 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:34.360 case was connected to a worker's compensation claim. The beneficiaries 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:38.880 of this claim were listed as her dependence. The Ombudsman 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.880 states that it was quote an alleged unreasonable failure on 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:46.080 the part of the government pathologists and others to complete 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.640 the necessary tests to determine the cause of death of 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:54.960 the late missus Reed. Alona was a hairdresser who worked 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.720 for the Edward Bill Salon. The claim is significant and 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:02.960 we would discuss it more in a future episode. Alona 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:09.520 was buried in an unmarked grave. Not only did Evelyn 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:13.080 lose her mother in nineteen seventy seven, she also lost 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:17.679 her maternal grandmother, and not long after a loner's brother, 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:24.440 Evelyn's uncle, also passed away. At just seven years old. 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:28.080 The age of innocence was over for Evelyn, who became 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:32.599 subjected to ongoing abuse, neglect, an abandonment of which she 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.680 would spend the rest of her life trying to overcome. 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.960 When we first found out about Evelyn a few years ago, 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:47.480 I rang her several times and left messages. I heard 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:53.680 nothing back. Earlier this year, I reached out again, and 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:57.880 this time Evelyn picked up the phone. We started talking, 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.000 and weeks later she agreed to talk to us publicly 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:05.479 about her father, her life, and even meet with Marion's 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:09.560 daughter Sally. Hello, Hi, I'm Sally. Hi. 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.240 Amazed too. 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:15.600 I feel a bit shaky too, so I'm not quite 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:16.279 sure what to say. 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:17.559 That's okay, that's okay. 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:21.600 We can just stay here and just yeah, We've got 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:23.480 a lot, a lot to talk about. 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:29.080 I'm very sad about your mom. Like, yeah, I'm sorry, Yeah, 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:30.600 I'm I've just been sad. 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:32.040 For your mom for a long time and I had 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:36.000 to I knew something wasn't right, and I just needed 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.120 to find you, and I just needed to That's what 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:42.400 I felt like anyway, So I'm glad I found you, perfective. 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.520 It's amazing to me. Thank you so much for acknowledging 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:50.280 that I've always been so I don't know, just felt 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.280 a bit crazy for thinking that anything terrible had happened 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:53.760 to my mum. 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.760 I'm sure it's I'm the same. Like, it's hard to 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.120 sort of put it into a clear perspective. 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:04.640 So yeah, yeah, our moms. That's hard in itself, isn't 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:04.920 it not. 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:09.880 Yeah, Yeah, it's been a hard journey not having a 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:10.840 mother growing up. 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:15.280 Evelyn and Sally's meeting was filmed for a special episode 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:20.040 Channel seven's Spotlight series with reporter Liam Bartlett, this. 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.440 Islamus to me. 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.720 It was nerve racking for both of them, but especially Evelyn, 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:30.680 who has never been on television before or spoken publicly 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:33.520 about her difficult and traumatic upbringing. 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:41.520 I'll be right, how am I? Yeah, there's a plaza 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:43.040 than chess my starts running. 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:47.600 Evelyn and Sally share many similarities. Both have lost their 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:53.000 mothers in suspicious circumstances. Both worry and wonder about the 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:57.880 events surrounding their mother's deaths, assuming that Marian is indeed deceased, 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.800 which is what both Sally and the News Arthwall's police 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:04.880 have said they believe. In addition, both Sally and Evelyn 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:08.200 know that their mothers were involved with the same man 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:11.760 before they died, a man using different names. 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:12.680 Yeah. 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:16.120 I mean, I just always felt like something had happened 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:23.440 to my mother, but there's just no way to get 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:26.200 anywhere with it. Just the fact that I felt that 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:30.840 something had happened to her, and I had an instinct 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:35.240 that whatever it was was nefarious and dark. That that 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:40.200 alone is what made all the people in my realm 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:44.160 treat me like I was pretty crazy. So that was 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:47.640 really my experience growing up with it. 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:51.760 But you still have those thoughts. You still think that. 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:55.359 I still have those thoughts now, but it's different because 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:01.439 it caused so much pained me to be treated that 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:06.680 way by everyone around me that eventually I had to 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:08.440 go through a process where I had to let it 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:11.560 go so that I could live my life, because otherwise 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:16.080 I was probably going to die myself. There's no way 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:21.680 to live with that amount of sort of trauma and 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:25.680 the dysfunction of relating to people from a place of 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:31.440 that much trauma. So that was sort of my journey, 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.400 and it was a long journey and a challenging journey. 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:38.120 Can I ask, I mean, this is a if I 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.480 might say, I mean, it's a difficult mix, though, isn't it? 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.480 Because he is still your biological father. 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:46.360 That's right. 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:50.240 It's worth noting here before Evelyn answers Limb's question that 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.160 she has been estranged from Rick Bloom for most of 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.520 her life and didn't even know of his existence until 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:57.680 she was in her teens. 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:02.959 Although I don't see him as my father, he din't, no, 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:08.040 I mean, I do understand, and in my thirties year, 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:13.720 the last time that I met with him, and you know, 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.160 I was left in a way that was very scarring 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:20.640 to me, where again I thought something terrible was happening. 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.880 I thought that maybe this person was trying to hurt 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:25.680 me in a bad way. 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:28.960 And on the other hand, he's my biological father. 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.440 So the combination of those two things was just it 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:38.720 left me scarred, and I have completely disassociated myself from 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.880 him as a relative of. 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.160 Mine for a good reason. 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:45.000 Yeah. 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.120 Well, someone said to me once and it was kind 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:52.199 of fitting at the time because we just had Ella 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:54.959 and someone a friend of Chris has said, you know, 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:57.959 anyone can be a father, but it takes a lot 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.679 to be a dad, And I think that resonates with 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:04.640 me with this as well, Like he can be your father, 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:05.920 but he's not your dad. 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:08.319 No, he's not my dad. 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:15.720 That's very sad. But the reality, if I might say, Sally, 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.240 it's fair, isn't it to say from your position that 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:24.560 you think evilence biological father has had something to do 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:27.160 with your mum's disappearance something. 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:32.040 Look, it's hard because I can't say that he definitely has. 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:33.839 But if I look at all the facts, and I'm 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:34.479 a pretty. 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:38.360 Level headed human, I'm not someone who jumps through into craziness. 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:40.840 And if I look at all the statistics. 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:42.520 And all of the facts and all of the modus 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.880 operandi that I've been presented, it's pretty fair to say 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:49.280 that he's probably knows something that he's not telling me. 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.040 You haven't reached the definitive conclusion because you can't. 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.480 I can't yet, And it's hard for people to understand. 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:57.800 Like everyone looks at the facts and goes, oh, well, 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.200 you know, we think he didn't like I can't say 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:01.080 that yet, but. 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.360 You think on the balance of probability that he's had 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.280 something to do with your mum. I have to disappearing. 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.840 I have to consider that my mum changed her name 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.880 to his name. She went overseas the same time as him, 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:14.960 she came back the same time as him, and all 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.000 of her know and whereabouts and money coming out of 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.560 her bank account and being in that location were where 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:21.240 he was living. 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:22.400 And he's still living today. 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:26.320 So I cannot not think that there is some connection 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:30.600 somehow to rip Blum. And he admits to having an 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.480 affair with my mum and a relationship with her. And 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:35.320 if you look at all the other ladies that have 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:38.320 come forward for no reason of their own, they've just 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:42.080 come forward and said, hey, this happened to me as well, 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:47.000 and you can imagine how compacting that is. Like, I 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.160 just felt like every time something happened, I would just 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.120 be and throw me back ten meters and that I'd 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:54.240 have to keep coming forward. 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.520 So, Evelyn, how do you process that connection with Sally? 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:04.080 You've lost to your mum tragically very young age. There's 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:08.400 that connection. You both lost your mother's but your father 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.800 may or may not have been involved. How do you 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.760 work that out in your mind now in front of Sally? 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:21.240 Well, I personally feel that my connection to Sally is 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:23.560 based on the fact that both of us lost our mother. 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.240 Yeah, and I feel that way too, nothing to do 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:33.600 with any connection to Rick Bloom the man, but rather 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:38.960 what we both went through for losing our mums. And 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:43.680 even though you know it seems to me that he 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:48.440 is guilty of something, I also have to pinch myself 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:54.160 to realize that he potentially did these terrible things. But 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.200 what terrible things did he do? We none of us 0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:00.320 really know. We have to hopefully find out. Maybe he'll 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:00.960 tell us. 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:03.640 Have you been thinking about this meeting for a while. 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:05.360 I didn't know it was ever going to get to 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.679 meet Sally, and I didn't know if Sally would want 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:09.040 to meet me. 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:11.480 I didn't know whether. 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:17.720 People would in some way try to put me in 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:22.000 some context with him as a relative, which I was 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:27.240 very frightened of. But I, after only recently becoming aware 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:32.520 of Sally's story long story, I just wanted to give 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:33.040 you're a hug. 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:35.080 That's it, he too. 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:39.080 As soon as I found out about you. I need 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:41.480 to I need to find ever learn, and I just 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:45.000 want to give her a big hug because I know 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.440 what the feeling is like to lose your mum. I mean, 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.320 you were obviously a lot younger than me, but I 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.800 think even if you take all that away, you still 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:55.080 have things in life that you have to try and 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.800 cope with as a daughter of someone who's no longer 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.520 there to help you and not knowing what's actually happened 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.040 to your mum, Like that, you're the same position as me. 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.160 I mean, I know you were young. How are we 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.120 seven seven and I. 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.520 Was twenty four, So there is that age difference between 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.840 the two of us. And I feel lucky that I 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:17.000 got to see my mom, you know, and grow up 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.680 with her through my teenage years. But I just had 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:23.880 this overwhelming want to meet Evelyn and just give her 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:25.800 a hug and just tell her I'm here for her, 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:30.360 and I am someone who understands and is grappling with 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:35.480 the enormity of what this is and the craziness of 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:36.000 what it is. 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:40.600 And you know, on the positive side, the long fight 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:43.320 that Sally has been waging and all the study and 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.120 the research in the background that she's been doing may 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:45.880 in fact help you. 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:47.560 Yeah, amazing. 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:52.800 It's so encouraging after what I've been through that there's 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:55.800 people out there, none of the people that were meant 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.920 to support me through life, but people complete strangers out 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:06.480 there believe that, yeah, something's gone on, and discovering what 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:10.400 that something is is something important as well. So and 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.440 hopefully if I can get a few answers, that would 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:17.480 be amazing. But at the same time, my mother is 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:21.320 dead and it'd be good to know what happened to 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:22.680 sell his mum. 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:27.360 So, yeah, it's tragically sad your mum at thirty one 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.680 of them, it's just sad thirty one years old. Well, 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:32.280 what does the death certificate say? 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:35.400 I actually can't remember the medical word for it. 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:38.600 Her heart stopped. I did look it up in a 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.520 medical book. It said that it was overload of toxins, 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.920 but it's actually overload of toxins, overload of topic the 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.520 heart's inability. I think, you know, to sort of like 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:49.880 deal with toxins in the blood as it pumps it around. 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.240 But it's a very common cause of death. It's up 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:56.200 there with cardiac arrest. It's the environmental toxins. A lot 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.240 of people their heart can't cope. So there's no way 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.040 to really pin pointed as a as any. 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:04.919 Thirty one, she must have had a lot of toxin 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:05.560 in her body. 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:06.120 Yeah. 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.119 Well, and when I grew up, I got told things 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:13.040 like she had fever when she was a child and 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.200 had a weak heart, or she died of a broken heart. 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:21.639 There were some welfare papers where my stepfather had reported 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:26.479 that she died from suicide on those documents. So I 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:30.080 didn't really ever get a clear answer about it, and 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.920 I think that maybe I would have accepted it if 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.679 it wasn't for the fact that my grandmother died the 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:36.200 same year. 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:40.800 Evelyn says her uncle Attila also died around this time. 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:45.120 My uncle being only somewhere in his twenties, so much 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.840 younger than my mother, apparently of a stroke. I mean, 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:52.080 it's unheard of the first time when I was in 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.240 my twenties, and I thought, maybe this really happened. Maybe 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:59.479 I'm just, you know, having invented all this stuff in 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:01.879 my head because I can't deal with the trauma of 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.359 losing my mother. So I took myself off to the 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:06.560 doctor and I thought, if that's the case, I'd better 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:07.560 go and get checked out. 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:09.960 Yeah, So I went to the doctor, told him. 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.119 The history, you know, of the young age of the 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:16.159 you know, and the doctor was horrified. Round heaps of 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:20.600 tests on me came back everything was normal, So, you know, 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.040 I just it was just confusing growing up trying to 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:23.640 get answers. 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:25.679 But I haven't had a chance to talk to Evelyn 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.240 about what we found either, And I hope it's okay 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.080 to tell you, but we actually have her autopsy report 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:33.960 and her heart is normal. 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:38.879 Okay, times I worry telling that man normal. 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:42.920 Well, they ticked her heart was functioning normally and there 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.360 was no damage to the heart. So on her death 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:47.760 certificate it said she'd had a heart attack and that 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.120 was at the hospital, and then the autopsy report came 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:51.399 back that the heart was normal. 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.800 Why would a hospital put say one thing on a 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.320 certificate and an autopsy say something different? 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:00.040 How would met. 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:04.200 Another question in the abyss that we're trying to grapple with. 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:06.359 That's amazing, But you didn't know this? 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:09.920 No, how could I know something like that? 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:10.760 Yeah, well no one. 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.520 You know, it's come through archives, That's how that information's 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:15.119 come about. 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.159 So if the autopsy report four evidence, Muma's saying that 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.240 her heart was normal, but what her body's full of toxin? 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:26.040 But to still die in those circumstances at thirty one, 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:31.440 and now, knowing all that we know about Rick Blum's background, 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.320 have the police interviewed you, Evely? 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.920 They did call me, I had a phone call. 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:41.160 Surely they've taken a statement. 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.200 No, no, nothing, nothing at all. 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:47.800 They haven't asked you to to turn up as a 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:49.840 witness to say something of the question. 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:51.320 Nothing. 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:54.800 Oh that's extraordinary. Do you think that's unusual? 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:56.280 I have goose bumps. 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:00.479 I mean, all this this is, you know, the and 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:05.960 then these circumstances surrounding the death of Evelyn's mum surely 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:12.320 are completely pertinent to the overall case the whole story. 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:13.280 Would you agree? 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:15.120 Well, I think it's very important. 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:19.240 Evelyn is a very and a loner, very important part 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:21.680 of this story, and hence. 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:25.320 Why when we found out what we did, I was like, 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:27.320 you know, I need to find you. 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.600 I need to give you a hug, and I I 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:31.960 was so sad to hear what happened to your mum 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:34.800 and shocked at the same time. And just my gut 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.240 feeling told me something wasn't right. And I have lived 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.160 my whole life with my mum going something's not right, 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:43.560 so I'm used to having a feeling of that, and 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:46.359 then I just go on this tangent I need to 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:49.280 find what's happened, and I need to look into it more. 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:53.440 And sometimes it leads me down rabbit holes that are 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.560 dead end, but sometimes I end up sitting next to 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:59.880 the person that we've been looking for. And it wasn't 0:20:59.920 --> 0:21:01.720 like we were on a mission to find you either. 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:05.159 But I'm glad we found you because I feel like 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:08.960 I want to be able to I don't know, I 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.280 feel like maybe being open and honest about what I've 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:12.600 had to do and what we've found. 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:14.560 And even with other people. 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:16.560 Who have come forward, they've said to me, thank you 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:19.639 for just letting me speak and letting me be heard, 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:24.160 because like you said, you know, people thought they're crazy 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:27.320 and don't be ridiculous, and that's why they haven't come forward. 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:31.200 They've just sat back and gone, oh, people think I'm 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:34.479 crazy if I say something. But it's important that we 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:36.640 all you know. Strength in numbers is what I say 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.320 to my girls, who helped me all the time, and 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.000 we've got some amazing people like you said as well, 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:43.840 Like I don't have any family supporting me. 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:45.040 It's my husband and. 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:48.520 My kids or my mum's sisters have thought that I'm 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:50.399 crazy and that I should just leave it alone, and 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:53.639 it's upsetting for them. It's upsetting for me too, but 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:56.119 I feel like I have to do I have to 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:56.720 do something. 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:07.320 Yeah, so it's the whole thing makes me shake. So 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:08.600 I'm so sorry. 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:14.120 Oh it's fine, but I just yeah, I just want 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:18.400 everyone needs to be looked after and cared for and 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:20.320 treated with sensitivity and care. 0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:20.600 Right. 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:27.640 Yeah, it's a bit of a process. I'm sorry. I'm 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:29.400 not trying to take you away from what you just said. 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:36.639 I'm just struggling to understand how professionals can deliver something 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:41.760 on one report and then people in a similar profession 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:47.280 like put a different cause of death onto a death certificate. 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:51.359 To that there's a conflict in what they're saying there, 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:54.960 how does something like that even even happen? 0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:58.159 And if it's true, you're right, and it's happened to 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:00.639 me as well, it's a great question. But on the 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:05.240 same level, whereas they said to me that they'd spoken 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:07.600 to my mum and she doesn't want anyone to know 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:10.280 where she was or what she was doing, and that 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:12.879 has proven to not be true. And then my brother 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:17.720