1
00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,360
Speaker 1: Samuel. Today is the last day of the podcast survey.

2
00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 2: How are you feeling really excited to take on board

3
00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,119
Speaker 2: some of the things that our audience has said and

4
00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:10,240
Speaker 2: smashed it out of the park.

5
00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,560
Speaker 1: Well. One of those audience members was Emma Letitia. She

6
00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,720
Speaker 1: is the winner of today's hoodie Woo Woo. Check your inbox.

7
00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:18,000
Speaker 1: We'll be reaching out to you soon.

8
00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:22,440
Speaker 2: Love to say yes woo. For anyone who hasn't done

9
00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,120
Speaker 2: the survey yet, today is your last day. We have

10
00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,280
Speaker 2: one more hoodie to give out, which we'll announce at

11
00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,840
Speaker 2: the end of the pod on Monday, and limited edition.

12
00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:32,559
Speaker 2: If you also put your email in, I'll send you

13
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,280
Speaker 2: the wooo as a ring tone and you'll be the

14
00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:37,840
Speaker 2: most popular kid in the playground.

15
00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,320
Speaker 1: The link is in the show notes. It's just four

16
00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,400
Speaker 1: questions and you'll be done by the time we get

17
00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,120
Speaker 1: into the headlines, which are coming up in just a moment.

18
00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,520
Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's finally Friday.

19
00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:55,640
Speaker 1: It's August the twelfth.

20
00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:57,080
Speaker 2: I'm Zara, I'm Sam.

21
00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,160
Speaker 1: Australian education ministers are meeting in Camp today to address

22
00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,240
Speaker 1: the national teacher shortage. We know this is something teachers

23
00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:05,839
Speaker 1: are struggling with every day.

24
00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,039
Speaker 3: It can become really taxing and frustrating to have to

25
00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:10,960
Speaker 3: deal with that and then still turn up every day

26
00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,000
Speaker 3: and be like, hi, guys, like we're going to have

27
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 3: an awesome day when you're literally your eyeballs are falling

28
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:17,319
Speaker 3: out of your head.

29
00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,959
Speaker 1: We'll get into that in the Deep Dove, but first Sam,

30
00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:22,479
Speaker 1: what's making headlines this morning?

31
00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,160
Speaker 2: An interim report was handed down by the Royal Commission

32
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,440
Speaker 2: into Defense and Veterans Suicide yesterday. It found flaws in

33
00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,760
Speaker 2: the process veterans used to access entitlements and claims, and

34
00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,240
Speaker 2: put forward thirteen recommendations for improvements.

35
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,440
Speaker 1: Former NRL player and coach Paul Green died in his

36
00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,039
Speaker 1: Brisbane home yesterday. Green played one hundred and sixty two

37
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,120
Speaker 1: top flight matches from nineteen ninety four to two thousand

38
00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,280
Speaker 1: and four, and as a coach he led the North

39
00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,920
Speaker 1: Queensland Cowboys to their first ever premiership in twenty fifteen.

40
00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,040
Speaker 1: His family say they are devastated by his passing.

41
00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,000
Speaker 2: To the skies now and industrial action will start at

42
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,240
Speaker 2: Quantus and Jetstar amid an escalating pay dispute with its

43
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 2: aircraft engineers. Seven hundred engineers voted to take the industrial action,

44
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:12,600
Speaker 2: which is expected to start at the end of the month.

45
00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,720
Speaker 2: Negotiations for Quantus engineers began way back in twenty nineteen

46
00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,160
Speaker 2: but stalled during the pandemic, while talks for Jetstar workers

47
00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:21,320
Speaker 2: restarted in May.

48
00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,480
Speaker 1: And some good news to finish up the week, Australian

49
00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,160
Speaker 1: basketball star Lauren Jackson will appear in her fifth World

50
00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,959
Speaker 1: Cup later this year, after only returning to the sport

51
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,720
Speaker 1: in February. She last played in a World Cup in

52
00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,000
Speaker 1: twenty ten, and she'll make her return to the event

53
00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:46,959
Speaker 1: when it begins in Sydney next month. Woo. Educators across

54
00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:50,120
Speaker 1: the country will be looking to Canberra today as education

55
00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,320
Speaker 1: ministers gathered to try address and national teacher shortage. Now

56
00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 1: the context for this is that the Federal Education Minister,

57
00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,720
Speaker 1: Jason clare He released an issues paper this week which

58
00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,640
Speaker 1: warned that Australia is facing a shortage of around four

59
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,239
Speaker 1: thy one hundred secondary school teachers in the next few years.

60
00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,600
Speaker 2: What can we take out of that issues paper as

61
00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:10,600
Speaker 2: the main reasons for this?

62
00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,120
Speaker 1: So what we found from this government report was that

63
00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:18,240
Speaker 1: first of all enrollments arising at primary schools, they're expected

64
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,120
Speaker 1: to grow by eleven percent between twenty twenty one and

65
00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,800
Speaker 1: twenty thirty one, and secondary enrollments are also projected to

66
00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,080
Speaker 1: grow by ten percent. This is also then coupled by

67
00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,960
Speaker 1: an aging teaching population, and according to this report, as

68
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,800
Speaker 1: teachers retire, they aren't actually being replaced fast enough because

69
00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,800
Speaker 1: teacher graduate numbers are also declining, so that, according to

70
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,480
Speaker 1: the government, is where this shortage lies. And then of

71
00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:47,280
Speaker 1: course things like COVID and illness has then exacerbated the issue.

72
00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,960
Speaker 2: More students, less teachers and a pandemic gets clear the

73
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,320
Speaker 2: systems under stress. When we were having a chat about

74
00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,720
Speaker 2: this in the newsroom yesterday, we were really keen to

75
00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,960
Speaker 2: understand how the teachers in our audience were really experiencing

76
00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,760
Speaker 2: the system firm hand. You put up a poll on

77
00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,000
Speaker 2: our Instagram. What kind of responses did you get?

78
00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,800
Speaker 1: Well, we got hundreds of messages and they were really

79
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,920
Speaker 1: filled with emotion. It was quite hard to read some

80
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,800
Speaker 1: of them, so I'll read out a couple that are

81
00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,080
Speaker 1: at the top. One person said they weren't coping very well.

82
00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,040
Speaker 1: She said, I mean my first year out of UNI

83
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,839
Speaker 1: and already looking to change careers. Another said, we recently

84
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,320
Speaker 1: had to hire four unsuitable teachers because literally no one

85
00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,919
Speaker 1: else applied. Someone else posited that it's awful not to

86
00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,640
Speaker 1: mention the workload is absolutely out of control and there's

87
00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,320
Speaker 1: a severe lack of permanent positions. One other added that

88
00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,920
Speaker 1: we're not coping at all. It's extremely hard. We're all

89
00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,400
Speaker 1: burnt out but have nothing left to turn to. People

90
00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,279
Speaker 1: with years and years of experience were reflecting that they'd

91
00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,000
Speaker 1: never seen anything like it, and one person said the

92
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,840
Speaker 1: shortage is having such an impact that in my fourteen years,

93
00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:53,440
Speaker 1: I've legitimately never seen this before. This burnout and frustration

94
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,200
Speaker 1: and exhaustion seems to be quite consistent across the board

95
00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:58,400
Speaker 1: in the people that we spoke to.

96
00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,320
Speaker 2: It's some pretty overwhelmed qualitative responses we got on our poll.

97
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,279
Speaker 2: Is there any research that compliments what we found yesterday?

98
00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,960
Speaker 1: What we heard on Instagram is very much mirrored in

99
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,200
Speaker 1: what the research has been telling us. Can point to

100
00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,560
Speaker 1: a study from Monash University in May which interviewed over

101
00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,719
Speaker 1: two thousand Ossie primary school and secondary school teachers. It

102
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,840
Speaker 1: found the fifty nine percent of them said that they

103
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,599
Speaker 1: wanted to quit. And one of the messages we got

104
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,559
Speaker 1: on Instagram was from a woman named Nadia who said,

105
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,159
Speaker 1: and I quote, I'm one of the teachers that left

106
00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,120
Speaker 1: and contributed to the shortage.

107
00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,560
Speaker 3: My name is Nadia. I am a teacher with ten

108
00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:39,280
Speaker 3: years experience combined. I love the classroom. It was a

109
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,880
Speaker 3: safe space for the kids. It was a sanctuary for them.

110
00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,440
Speaker 3: It wasn't my classroom, it was our classroom. Honestly, if

111
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,480
Speaker 3: it wasn't for everything else making the actual teaching part

112
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,800
Speaker 3: really difficult, I'd still be there. So I worked across

113
00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:57,600
Speaker 3: government schools, so public funded schools. As the years progressed,

114
00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,960
Speaker 3: I guess class size has got really unmanageable. We don't

115
00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,279
Speaker 3: get to leave at three point thirty. There's an audio

116
00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,240
Speaker 3: clip that you can use over and over and over again.

117
00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,800
Speaker 3: You know, we stay back for meetings and planning, and

118
00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,320
Speaker 3: like I never used to leave before seven. I frequently

119
00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,240
Speaker 3: get kicked out of school because I just didn't have

120
00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,440
Speaker 3: the time and I didn't want to take my work home.

121
00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,719
Speaker 3: Because you need to keep that separate. It can become

122
00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,800
Speaker 3: really taxing and frustrating. And then still turn up every

123
00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,000
Speaker 3: day and be like, hi, guys, like we're gonna have

124
00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,640
Speaker 3: an awesome day, when you're literally your eyeballs are falling

125
00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,440
Speaker 3: out of your head. And then the curriculum changed twice,

126
00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,680
Speaker 3: so that was really difficult to navigate, and then of

127
00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:41,520
Speaker 3: course COVID happened. So the expectation to take what we

128
00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,279
Speaker 3: do day in and day out to our own homes

129
00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:49,320
Speaker 3: and still do it well kind of was the nail

130
00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:54,560
Speaker 3: in the coffin of just the slowly embedded bureaucracy and

131
00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,479
Speaker 3: just little changes that we're really making the teaching part

132
00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:05,440
Speaker 3: of it really hard. So it was something so I

133
00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,880
Speaker 3: am in the middle of last year, so twenty twenty

134
00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:13,520
Speaker 3: one just couldn't take it anymore. I decided I came first,

135
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,480
Speaker 3: and as devastating as it was to leave a group

136
00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,320
Speaker 3: of grade sixers about to go to high school, I

137
00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,560
Speaker 3: was not able to be there for them the way

138
00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,240
Speaker 3: that I needed to be. So I just left. I

139
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,680
Speaker 3: cried a lot. I cried so much, trust me, it

140
00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,600
Speaker 3: broke my heart. I didn't work for a bit deliberately.

141
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,760
Speaker 3: If I'm honest, I basically had a mental breakdown. I

142
00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,440
Speaker 3: couldn't function. I was just like, my whole life now

143
00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,200
Speaker 3: means nothing. Everything that I love and everything that I

144
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,920
Speaker 3: work towards, I don't know what to do with that anymore.

145
00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,720
Speaker 3: And as teachers. We really pigeonhold ourselves very quickly. That

146
00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:49,640
Speaker 3: that's all we can do.

147
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,640
Speaker 1: So Nadia now works for an organization called Barry Street.

148
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,760
Speaker 1: She's working as a teacher again, but directly with kids

149
00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,200
Speaker 1: from vulnerable families that don't actually go to school. That

150
00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,840
Speaker 1: means that even though Nadia has technically left schools herself,

151
00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,080
Speaker 1: she's still been there to witness the teacher shortage play out.

152
00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,600
Speaker 3: So I'm regional as well. I'm in Gippsland, so their

153
00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:16,120
Speaker 3: pool of teachers was already low, and what's happening when

154
00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:21,680
Speaker 3: they can't fill an emergency role is they'll merge the classrooms,

155
00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:25,360
Speaker 3: which is horrible when the class sizes are already really big.

156
00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,920
Speaker 3: Leadership is stepping in, Teacher aids are having to step up,

157
00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:30,600
Speaker 3: so a lot of them are staying back and doing

158
00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,480
Speaker 3: the role of a teacher and not getting paid for it,

159
00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,640
Speaker 3: which is causing a cascade of like negative emotions and

160
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:38,120
Speaker 3: negative environments.

161
00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,840
Speaker 2: Nadia's painting a pretty dire picture. What's the solution to

162
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,000
Speaker 2: all of this? Do we know what's going to come

163
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,480
Speaker 2: out of the meeting in Canberra today.

164
00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,080
Speaker 1: We'll have to wait and see exactly what will come

165
00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,640
Speaker 1: out of the meeting, but there was one suggestion in

166
00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,480
Speaker 1: New South Wales that new higher paid jobs could be

167
00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,240
Speaker 1: created for outstanding teachers, with salaries up to one hundred

168
00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,400
Speaker 1: and thirty thousand a year. We put this tonight to

169
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,439
Speaker 1: see what she thought of that, and she wasn't a

170
00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:02,880
Speaker 1: big fan.

171
00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,600
Speaker 3: What do you consider high performing? You know? My philosophy

172
00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,040
Speaker 3: on teaching wasn't about academics. It was about the kids

173
00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,840
Speaker 3: feeling ready to learn, you know. So what are we

174
00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,160
Speaker 3: being measured by the quality or the quantity of the work?

175
00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:19,680
Speaker 2: What else is on the table?

176
00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,679
Speaker 1: Well, there have been reports that ministers will discuss lowering

177
00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,120
Speaker 1: UNI fees for teaching degrees and the use of employment

178
00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,840
Speaker 1: based degrees where teaching students would work in schools and

179
00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:31,160
Speaker 1: earn while they were studying.

180
00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,319
Speaker 3: I think working while studying would be a big one

181
00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,520
Speaker 3: because when we're on placement, we don't get paid and

182
00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,560
Speaker 3: that's a big chunk of time that we take off

183
00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,160
Speaker 3: to then basically be a teacher.

184
00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,120
Speaker 2: And what does Nada think is actually going to work? Here?

185
00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,840
Speaker 3: Ah? Here it is. The disconnect is government tells us

186
00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,319
Speaker 3: this we're on the ground, and we don't get listened

187
00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,520
Speaker 3: to the people on the ground. So I would just

188
00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,079
Speaker 3: be like, please have a forum where we can actively

189
00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,000
Speaker 3: tell you what desperately needs to be done and you

190
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:03,079
Speaker 3: actually action. We need more resources, we need more well,

191
00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,440
Speaker 3: it's not even about the money. We need more space,

192
00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:14,600
Speaker 3: We need more time to be effective teachers. Let us teach,

193
00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,000
Speaker 3: don't make us report about our teaching.

194
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,640
Speaker 2: A quick reminder about our podcast survey is live for

195
00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:28,920
Speaker 2: only about twenty four hours more and the link is

196
00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,040
Speaker 2: in the show notes. We've been totally overwhelmed the response

197
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,959
Speaker 2: so far. I can hardly count that high. There's so many,

198
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,240
Speaker 2: but there's still time to tell us what you think.

199
00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,680
Speaker 2: Let us know if you love us, hate us, or

200
00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:40,679
Speaker 2: somewhere in between.

201
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:48,199
Speaker 1: We hope you have a brilliant weekend.