1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: We often say yes to things that we don't want 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: to do, and then what happens, We get resentful, right, 3 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,120 Speaker 1: and we do it, but grudgingly. We do it resentfully, 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: and that's not a good vibe, that's not a good energy. 5 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: Have you ever noticed that sometimes when you say yes, 6 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 2: your whole body is quietly screaming no. It might be 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: at work, with your kids, or even in your closest relationships, 8 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 2: and while it seems small in the moment, those choices 9 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 2: can leave you drained, resentful, and wondering why you feel 10 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 2: out of alignment with your own life. In today's episode, 11 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: I'm joined again by Laelstone, educator and author of the 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 2: brilliant book Own Your Story, to unpack the hidden patterns 13 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: that shape our decisions. You'll learn how to recognize when 14 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: you're running on old scripts, the surprising role family dynamics 15 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: play in your leadership, and practical shifts that can help 16 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: you step back into your power. If you've ever felt 17 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: torn between what you should do and what you actually 18 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 2: want to do, I can promise you you will love 19 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 2: this conversation. Oh and if you didn't listen to part 20 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 2: one last week, you might want to go back and 21 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 2: listen to that one too. Welcome to How I Work, 22 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 2: a show about habits, rituals, and strategies for optimizing your date. 23 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 2: I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber. I love what you 24 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: said about if there's a should involved, it should be 25 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 2: a no. Can you tell me more about that? 26 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So this for me was something that 27 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: I really got when I worked with teenagers. So I 28 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: spent about five years teaching sex education to teenagers in 29 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: secondary schools, which was a very fun job or for 30 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: some people, their idea of the worst. 31 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: Job in the world. 32 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: But I absolutely loved it because I love teenagers have 33 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: that's just sweet spot for them, and I think there's 34 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: so much to teach it, you know, to learn And 35 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: a big part of what we would talk about in 36 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: this education I would do is about consent, right, and 37 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: how do we know what consent is? And how do 38 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: we know if we want to do something? And so 39 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: I used to talk about that we've kind of got 40 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: four different brains in our bodies, right, and we want 41 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: them to all be aligned to say, is this a 42 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: full body? Yes? Right? So it's probably going to be 43 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: quite different content than what I'll go here right now. 44 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: So what I would say to the teenagers is like, 45 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: you've got a brain in your head, You've got like 46 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: your heart, which you know has a voice, You've got 47 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: your gut feeling, and then your genitals has a voice. Right, 48 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: So I would say i'd give them an example of 49 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: let's just say there's a boy that really likes you 50 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 1: and he wants to kiss you right now. Your head 51 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: might be like, oh my god, I can't believe he 52 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: likes me. This is so exciting. I want to kiss 53 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: this guy. And your heart's like, oh my god, we're 54 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: going to fall in love. This is going to be amazing, right, 55 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: And your genitals are like, yes, yes, yes, let's do it. 56 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: But your gut, your gut's going I don't know if 57 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: it's a good idea to kiss my best friend's boyfriend, right, 58 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: So there's something in you that's like this is probably 59 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: not a good idea. And so what I used to 60 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: say to these teenagers is if you are in situations 61 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: where you want to do something, you want to check 62 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: is this a full body yes for me? Right? And 63 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: when I explained it that way, they'd be like, oh, yeah, 64 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 1: I get that. And so we would talk about if 65 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: it's a maybe it's a no until it's a full yes, right. 66 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: And so that was in the context of relationships, exploring sexuality, 67 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff, but I think you can 68 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: apply it to a lot of things. We want it 69 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: to be a full body yes. Now there's times where 70 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: we don't have a full body yes. You know, especially 71 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: if your boss walks up to you and says, can 72 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: you please finish this report in three hours? That might 73 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: be like that is not a full body yes for me, 74 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: But you have to do it right. It's part of 75 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: your job. And sometimes what we want to do is go, well, 76 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: how can I make this enjoyable at least? What if 77 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: I shift my mindset to go, I'll put on some music, 78 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: I'll do it, smash it out. All these times as 79 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: a parent where you're like, I do not have a 80 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: full body yes to make dinner right, I mean there's 81 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: things we have to do sometimes right. But where there 82 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: is an opportunity for choice, I think it's really important 83 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: that we pause, and I think that question I should 84 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: do that is the invitation to pause. It is the 85 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: moment where we get to stop and actually go what 86 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: is happening for me here? Is that a real yes 87 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: to me? Am I about to say yes to this 88 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: because I have in the past and that's what they 89 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: expect or does that really serve me? And again, you know, 90 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: there's a lot of wiggle room around this, but I 91 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: think we often say yes to things that we don't 92 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: want to do, and then what happens We get resentful, right, 93 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: and we do it but grudgingly, we do it resentfully, 94 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: and that's not a good five, that's not a good energy. 95 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: So I think, you know, part of this is learning 96 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: to work with trusting our boundaries of what is a 97 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: yes to me, what is a no for me, and 98 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: what we can work with in a way that feels, 99 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: you know, empowering for us but also really honoring for 100 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: other people. I love the. 101 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: Idea of a full body yes and probably at work 102 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 2: minus the general tools. And it's probably the first time 103 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 2: that we've talked about general tools. 104 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: On how I work, So yay, layout. 105 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 2: I love that I want to talk about imprints around 106 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 2: success and happiness, which I found really interesting, and that 107 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 2: as humans, a lot of us have the tendency to 108 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: ask how bad could it be? And you invite people 109 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: to ask a different question, can you tell me more 110 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 2: about that? 111 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: So I think, again, our default is to always troubleshoot, 112 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: to go what could go wrong? Right? Especially when we're 113 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: going to do something new, we're often like, this could happen. 114 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: That could happen, people might judge me, I might lose 115 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: a whole lot of money. Like all the things right, 116 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: and we are hardwired to look for all the problems 117 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: because we're coming from protection. We're always coming from protection. 118 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: We're always trying to keep ourselves safe. But the other 119 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: question that the flip of that is well how good 120 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: could it get? Right? And I think when we flip 121 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: that thinking a little bit to being like, well what 122 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: could go right? What could be possible? Here? Again we 123 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: open ourselves up to the potential of the possibility. So 124 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: I have found that again just purely through safety, right 125 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: in trying to keep ourselves safe, when we're thinking about 126 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: doing something new, when we're taking a leap forward, we 127 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,799 Speaker 1: have this really limited way of thinking, this might happen, 128 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 1: and we go into all the logistics. But when you 129 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: ask something like well how good could it get what 130 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: you're doing is you're opening yourself up to possibilities you 131 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: didn't even know that exists. And so when we are 132 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: looking or whenever I'm looking at doing something new, taking 133 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: a leap, all that kind of stuff. I go, yeah, 134 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: I usually have the wobbles of like, oh, that's a 135 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: great idea, and these things may go wrong, and there's 136 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: nothing wrong with thinking about that. We have to be smart, 137 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: we need to troubleshoot, right, But I think the overriding feeling, 138 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 1: which can be really powerful, is well, how good could 139 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: this be if I didn't care what people thought, if 140 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: it wasn't about money, what could be possible here? And 141 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: success is one of those tricky things where I think 142 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: can be very layered for a lot of people. And 143 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: again depending on the imprints that you have. Right, if 144 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: you grew up in a family where your worth was 145 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: really only about how successful you were, then you are 146 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: probably going to work really, really hard because your fundamental 147 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: need is I need to be seen by my family 148 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: of origin. So I'll create this business, I'll end this 149 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: much money. And then often what happens is we're still 150 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: looking to go yeah, do you see how successful I am? 151 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: Do you see me? Do you love me? Off and 152 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: doesn't give us the feeling that we're looking for, Because 153 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: that longing to be seen or that needing to be 154 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: recognized is something can only come from within. It's not 155 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: about everybody else's recognition. And there's enough evidence that we 156 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: know that people who are top athletes or musicians or billionaires, 157 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: whatever it is, you know, they can be some of 158 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: the loneliest people on earth. 159 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: Right. 160 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: I also see with success is that if we grew 161 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: up in a family of origin where people weren't what 162 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: we would consider really successful, we can often sabotage our 163 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: own success because we can often feel like we're being 164 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: disloyal to our family if we were to be successful. 165 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: So I've seen this a bit with families where perhaps 166 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: it's been a struggle either financially or we've had to 167 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: work really hard. And part of what becomes that narrative 168 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: in our families is we work really really hard, you know, 169 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: or we struggle and that's what we do. And then 170 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: if someone steps out of that and there's a lot 171 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: of flow in their life, or perhaps there's a lot 172 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: of success, what can sometimes happen over here is that 173 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: family of origin can be quite judgmental of what you're doing. 174 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: They can and make fun of what it is, you know, 175 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: and then we can be having this feeling of like, well, 176 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: they ain't see me and you know, maybe I don't 177 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: belong anymore. So we actually can sabotage ourselves just to 178 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: belong in that family of origin. And the work is 179 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: often realizing, hey, it's safe for me to be success. 180 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: You know, I belong in my family just because I'm 181 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: part of that family. Right, I don't need to behave 182 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: in a certain way. I will always belong. But part 183 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: of that movement towards growth is actually just changing those 184 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: belief systems and stories. It says it is safe for 185 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: me to be successful, because I've seen a lot of 186 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: people sabotage themselves in their greatness, usually because they feel 187 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: disloyal to their family that they've come from. And it's 188 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: often a deep, unconscious story. They don't even realize it 189 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: until we get to the kind of deeper levels and 190 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: then they're like, oh, oh, there's a story I write 191 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: in the book about a man I worked with, had 192 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 1: amazing possibilities happening in his business, but he kept sabotaging 193 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: or playing small, And when we got to the bottom 194 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: of it, really what it was about is he'd grown 195 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: up with an older sister who was really often very 196 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: jealous of you, and whenever he had any form of 197 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: his success. You know, she tried to up one on 198 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: him and just there was a lot of tension that 199 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: often happened because she had a lot of insecurities and 200 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: needed to be the best. And that was from when 201 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: they were kids, and he was still playing it out now, right, 202 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: he was still in a place where I asked him 203 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: to imagine how good could it be? How good could 204 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: it get? Tell me the dream, imagine what it looks like. 205 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: And he's dreaming about all the beautiful things. And I 206 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: literally then ask him, okay, and who's here? And he goes, Oh, 207 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 1: my sister's just walked in. And I go and what 208 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: she doing? And she's like, she's mad because I have 209 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: all this success. And I was like, ah, and this 210 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: is the complexities and the intricacies of families, right, Like, 211 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: my god, they can be so messy. But it actually 212 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: filters into work like it does often it filters into 213 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: many things. You know, when you think about the people 214 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: you work with, often people who you know we sometimes 215 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: butt heads against or or have challenges within work are 216 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 1: often have got similar traits to family members. I Mean, 217 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: I'll often say if I'm working with someone who've got 218 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: this colleague of mine I'm like, who do they remind 219 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: you of? Yeah, my younger brother, right, or my mom 220 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: or my dad, you know, And I'm like, we have 221 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: an opportunity to work through some of the stories and 222 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: patterns that we've got, because relationships is where we do 223 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: the work. 224 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 2: I want to ask you more about something you shared 225 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 2: at your book launch last Friday night, and you said 226 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: you woke up last Tuesday, which was publication day or 227 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 2: your book you let us book, and it just wanted 228 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 2: to crawl into bed and stay under the doner, which 229 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 2: I thought, Wow, that's really interesting. I want to know 230 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 2: how did you work through that? 231 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, well my husband kept coming in and going, 232 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: you're right about you. It's such an interesting thing too, 233 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: because I know all this stuff. I'll talk about it. 234 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: The humanness of us always fascinates me. Right, So for 235 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: me that Tuesday, I mean, this is a day I've 236 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: been waiting for forever. You know how hard it is 237 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: to bring a book into the world, right, so when 238 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: it arrives you're like, oh here. Yeah. What was surfacing 239 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: for me was oh God, okay, now it's really out 240 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: in the world. Are people gonna like it? Is it 241 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: going to do well? Just all the normal natural pieces 242 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: that sat there, and I know enough about myself now 243 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: where I was like, I kept trying to turn away 244 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: from that and just be like it's fine, as fine 245 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: as fine. I was like, no, actually, just have to 246 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 1: feel this. And so I did go to bed and 247 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: I put the dinner off my head and I just 248 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: sat there, going, I feel vulnerable, I feel exposed. I'm 249 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: putting some art out into the world and that takes courage, 250 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: so of course you feel vulnerable, right, And I just 251 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 1: let myself feel it. I gave myself permission to be 252 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: in it, and I don't know, I maybe sat in 253 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: it for a few hours, message a few friends, spoke 254 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: to someone, just let myself be in it. And then 255 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: I think after just letting myself feel it, something shifted 256 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, I actually can step forward 257 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: and actually just allow this to drop in. What I 258 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: realized again in doing that, is that we are so 259 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: much often more comfortable giving than we are receiving. Many 260 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: of us weren't taught how to when we were kids. Well, 261 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: and it's something if I can tell a little story 262 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: that I have found that I really wanted to change 263 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: with my own children who are adults now. But because 264 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: I've danced around this story for a while of we're 265 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: very good, particularly if you're an entrepreneur or a business person, 266 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: you create something okay, done next, you just kind of 267 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: move on pretty quickly. You don't actually allow yourself to 268 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 1: take it in. And I think, again, a lot of 269 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: that's got to do with yes, we can just keep 270 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: moving and being, you know, instead of actually the feeling part. 271 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: And I really wanted to change that for my children, 272 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: and so we made a point that whenever it's one 273 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: of our kids' birthdays and we have a birthday dinner 274 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: and maybe extended family come, what we do is every 275 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: time it's a child's birthday, we all go around the 276 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: table and we say to that person whose birthday is 277 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: what we love about them and what we admire about them. 278 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: And we've done this since our kids are like four 279 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: and five years of age, and my audience is like 280 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: twenty five now, right, So for twenty years, every birthday 281 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: he receives words of acknowledgment and being seen and the 282 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: magic that we see in him. What I have witnessing 283 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: my children is their ability to sit there and just 284 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: receive it, take it in and hear it as a 285 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: truth right of the people who love you the most, 286 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: You're really seeing you, And I'm like, this is a 287 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: powerful imprint here, an ability to receive to know your worth, 288 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: especially from the people who care the most for you. 289 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: I can see that my stickiness with it was probably 290 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: because I didn't necessarily have that growing up, but also 291 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: because I think there is a vulnerability in sitting in 292 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: the receiving praise or just acknowledgment all those kind of things. 293 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: We're really good at brushing it off and not everybody, 294 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: but I think, you know, there's also a bit of 295 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: an edge to that that for me sometimes has been Oh, 296 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: I don't want to seem arrogant, or I'm really grateful 297 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: that I get to do this work, and so there's 298 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: been a humility thing that's kind of coming there. But 299 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: I'm still trying to find my place of just being 300 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: able to sit with it. And I feel like having 301 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: a book launch is a big thing, you know, and 302 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: all those people are there, and I really did make 303 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: a point of take this in, like this is a moment, 304 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: and you know, next week got to be gone and 305 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: something else will be happening, you know, so just take 306 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: it in and actually acknowledge the work that you've done, 307 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: and I think when we create things, we don't do 308 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: that enough. 309 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: I love that ritual that you described with your family 310 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 2: and your kids. It reminds me of something I did. 311 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 2: It was a year and a half ago now. It 312 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 2: was my husband's birthday, not the most recent one, but 313 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 2: the one in twenty twenty four. And he's very, very 314 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 2: humble and feels awkward with compliments and those sorts of things. 315 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 2: And I organized a surprise birthday dinner with family members, 316 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 2: so there I think about like twelve of us or 317 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 2: something like that. And the one piece of homework I 318 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: gave everyone if I said, we're going to go around 319 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 2: the table and everyone's going to say what they love 320 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 2: about my husband, and I videoed the whole thing. It 321 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 2: was so beautiful. I think I's probably not presumptuous to 322 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 2: say it was one of the most memorable things that 323 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 2: happened to him last year. And now it makes me go, well, 324 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 2: why does that have to be a once in a 325 00:14:58,320 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 2: lifetime thing? 326 00:14:59,120 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: Why could that not be? 327 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 2: And every year things? 328 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: Do you know that story about the birthday stuff I 329 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: took in to the school that I created, and really 330 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: one of the big things we want to do at 331 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: our school is to really help the team feel acknowledged 332 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: and seen. They do incredible work, you know, working with 333 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: these children, and that was one of the rituals that 334 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: they've brought into the team. So when it is someone's 335 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: birthday at school, we all get together before the children 336 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: arrive and stuff like that, and the team acknowledges that 337 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: person whose birthday it is. And again, for some people, 338 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: they've never ever had that in their life. I mean 339 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: there's some people on staff who're like, I'm not coming 340 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: to work that day, Like you know, that feels too much, 341 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: and that's okay. You can kind of opt out of it. 342 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: And like even if they were not opt out of it, 343 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: we're like, well, we'll probably write you love notes instead 344 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,239 Speaker 1: or something. But I think we all need to be acknowledged. 345 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: It's a fundamental part of who we are to be seen. 346 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: And I think it's not just something in families and birthdays, 347 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: but it's a beautiful thing to be able to acknowledge 348 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: our staff, our work, the people that are part of 349 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: our lives. I think we all need to hear it. 350 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: We all need to hear I really see you, and 351 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: I love that this is what you bring to our organization. 352 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: And I love that this is your magic that you 353 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: bring to what we do, and we if you weren't here, 354 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: you know, we would really notice that. And I think 355 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: we all have this fundamental need to belong and to 356 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: be seen, and I think, and there's such beautiful little 357 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: things that we can do to make that happen. 358 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: I love the idea of taking that into the workplace, 359 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 2: like I think about what we do at Inventium and 360 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 2: this probably like this in many workplaces. We've got a 361 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 2: shared WhatsApp group that the whole team are on, and 362 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 2: when it's someone's birthday, we say happy birthday and a 363 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 2: few nice words. But it just, I don't know, it 364 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 2: just always feels very sort of perfunctory. It's like, oh, 365 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 2: you just get your standard birthday messages, And I kind 366 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: of make me think. I think I'm going to put 367 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 2: that challenge. 368 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: Out there to the team. 369 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 2: Let's start a new Rachel around this. Yeah, think about 370 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 2: the last time someone came to you with a problem. 371 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 2: Did you jump in with advice straight away. L All 372 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 2: makes the case that most of us don't actually listen. 373 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 2: We rush to fix, and when we do that, people 374 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 2: shut down. So coming up after the break. Lael unpacks 375 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 2: why this habit shows up so strongly at work and 376 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 2: at home, and how we can swap fixing for truly listening. 377 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 2: It's a simple shift for one. 378 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: That is very very powerful. 379 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 2: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way 380 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 2: you work can live. I write a short weekly newsletter 381 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 2: that contains tactics I've discovered that have helped me personally. 382 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 2: You can sign up for that at Amantha dot com. 383 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 2: That's Amantha dot com. You say that a lot of 384 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 2: us when it comes to listening to other people is 385 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 2: that we listen to fix rather than listen to here. 386 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: Why is that? Yeah, I think fundamentally it's because we 387 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: want to make ourselves feel better. Because think about it 388 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: this way, when someone you care about, whether that's a 389 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: family member, whether it's a friend, it could be a work, college, whatever, 390 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: when they're sitting there saying, oh this is going on 391 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: and this is really hard, you know, because we care 392 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: about that person, we want to help them. We don't 393 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: want them to be in pain. And so I think 394 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: what we often do is we come in with a 395 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: fix of well you could try this, and you could 396 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: do that, and you could speak to your boss and 397 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 1: you know, we come in with all these suggestions. Yet 398 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: I often like to flip it and say to everybody, 399 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: let's just say that you've had a really hard day, 400 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: things are really heavy on your heart and you come 401 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: to someone that you care about and you're like, oh, 402 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: this happened, and that happened. As soon as they start 403 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: jumping in with a fix, what happens we actually start 404 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: to pull back, we don't share as much, or we 405 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: try and talk over the top of them. It actually 406 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: doesn't often feel good because our fundamental need as humans 407 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: is to be heard, right, it is not to be fixed. 408 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: And so I think when we are the ones that 409 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 1: are listening, we often jump into fix because a we 410 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 1: like to feel like we're being productive and we're helping. 411 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: But also it's usually because we're uncomfortable with their uncomfortableness. 412 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: And this is so pate with parents and children, family members, 413 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: even our partners all the time. And my invitation amongst 414 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: all that is we have to learn to be comfortable 415 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: in the uncomfortable, because what is one of the most 416 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: respectful things we can do when somebody's talking about how 417 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: hard something is and they're pouring their heart out to us, 418 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: to sit there and say I hear you and I 419 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: see you, and this sounds big, and that's it is 420 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: such a beautiful gift to another person because often when 421 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: someone actually feels heard, what happens is once they've got 422 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: it all out, then they open up the window for 423 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: possibility to go what's the next steps here? And it 424 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: was actually working through the teenagers that I really learned 425 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: about this because when I worked with those teenagers for 426 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 1: five years, I asked them all the same question, which was, 427 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: if there's one thing you could change about your parents, 428 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: what would it be, or one thing you wish they'd do? 429 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: And eighty five percent of them said, I just wish 430 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: they would listen. And they wanted three things of the listening. 431 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: The first thing they wanted was they wanted their parents 432 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: to listen without judging. So it was really firstly about 433 00:19:58,400 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: if they were bringing something to them, they didn't want 434 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: their parents to be all judge around the thing they 435 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,719 Speaker 1: were sharing. The second thing was listening without fixing, So 436 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: they really wanted their parents just to do a lot 437 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: of nodding and a lot of listening. And I used 438 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: to say to parents all the time, if your child 439 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: is sitting there with you, saying all this big stuff. 440 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: At the end of it, you can just say did 441 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: you want me to listen? Or would you like a suggestion? 442 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: And if your child's like, I just want you to listen, 443 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: then you do not say okay, but here's what I 444 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: think you should do. 445 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 2: Right. 446 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: But we have such a need to fix as humans, 447 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: and part of the trickiness is sitting biting our tongue. Right, 448 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: somebody wants helped, they'll often ask for it, So it's 449 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: listening without fixing. And the third thing was they wanted 450 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: their parents to listen without getting into the drama with them, 451 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: so that we weren't going, oh my god, that's outrageous, 452 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: and I'm going to call the school and I'm going 453 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: to do this, and I'm going to do that. And 454 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: the same tools apply actually in the workplace and also 455 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 1: to our intimate partners. Right when they're coming to us 456 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: with big stuff. We want to listen without judging, Like 457 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: we want to sit back and just hear ah and 458 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: hear what's going on. But we're so quick to jump 459 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: into the judge of others or them all that kind 460 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: of stuff. But there's always two sides to every story, 461 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: you know. We want to listen without bringing our two 462 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: cents worth in. And then the third part is really 463 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: holding a container of trust. I trust that you'll be 464 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: able to navigate your way through this. I trust that 465 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:15,719 Speaker 1: you're going to be able to find a solution. I'm 466 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: happy to give you you know, bounce some ideas around 467 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: if you want, but really I'm here to hold that 468 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: space for you in the speaking what's on our minds, 469 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,959 Speaker 1: what's on our hearts. You know, when we get it 470 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: out and we can take it to a safe place, 471 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: then we can actually begin to see what we need 472 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: to work with to shift it the leaders. 473 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 2: Like I wonder about this for leaders because sometimes they 474 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 2: do need to get in and they need to fix, 475 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 2: or they need to mentor or they need to quite 476 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 2: proactively coach. Yes, how do you know when they need 477 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 2: to shift? 478 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, So my first thing is always we firstly 479 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: start by just hearing what the stories and the problems 480 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: are within it, and then I think it is you know, 481 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: for me, I'm often what I have found too in 482 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: a leadership place is just putting it back to the 483 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: person going what do you think might need to happen here? 484 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: So seeing if they can get some buy into what 485 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: they think needs to happen and where that can be. 486 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: But then I also think there's the skill of a 487 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: leader to be able to say, look, thank you, I'm 488 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: going to take all that on board and this is 489 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: what I feel what we need to do next as 490 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: the steps forward in what we need to do. And 491 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 1: I think that is a real intuitive thing. I think 492 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: there's a dance in being a good leader of knowing 493 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 1: when to lean in, knowing when to lean out, and 494 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: also knowing the people you are working with, and so 495 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: I think that is a beautiful thing as we build 496 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: relationship and connection with people. There are some people who 497 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: are always going to need scaffolding, and there are some 498 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: people that are always going to need some handholding for things, 499 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: and then there's others can leave it with them and 500 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: they're like, YEH, got it, I'm going to move on 501 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: with it. And that all comes back to relationship and connection, right. 502 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,479 Speaker 1: It all comes back to who are these people who 503 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: are working with me? What do I know about them? 504 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: What are their strengths? You know, how do I get 505 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: the best out of them? And I think that quality 506 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: of relationship as a leader is so vital because then 507 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 1: we begin to know when we need to move and 508 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: when we don't. I love that. 509 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 2: Like, ultimately, everything we've been talking about, I guess relates 510 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 2: back to, you knowtional intelligence in how we navigate life. 511 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: And I guess for someone listening, I mean, I feel 512 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 2: like we've covered so many really interesting and practical ideas 513 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 2: and strategies, Like what would you say, Like if someone 514 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 2: is just going to take one step after listening to 515 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 2: this discussion, what should they do? 516 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the first step and I'm going to 517 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: use this word and it's so cliche, but it's true. 518 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: I think the first step is mindfulness in the sense 519 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: of being able to ask myself a question or what's 520 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: going on for me right now? We know when we're 521 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: in our center, right, we know when we're being our 522 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: best adult self. But I kind of joke, and I 523 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: say this in the book. We are mostly children running 524 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: around in adult bodies, bumping up against each other, have 525 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: childlike reactions. That's most of the time what we do 526 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: right and when we are able to attune enough to 527 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: ourselves to know when we're being the adult, and the 528 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: adult usually will pause, it will listen to what someone 529 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: else has got to say. It doesn't have to jump 530 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: in and prove a point. It's able to go. I'm 531 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: going to take that on board. It's able to reflect. 532 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: You know, we're grounded, we're centered. That's when the adult, 533 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: we know the adult is in the room when that's happening. 534 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: But when we are reactive, when we're making someone else wrong, 535 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: when we're yelling, or when we're perhaps collapsing into ourselves, 536 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 1: when we've got all the shame and negative talk stuff 537 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: going on, then that usually to me is a bit 538 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: of an indication that there's a child part of you 539 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: that's turning up here right, and there's something to be addressed. 540 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: But we need to firstly start with the awareness to 541 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: be able to catch that right. And so for me, 542 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: the first step is always this is just like, well, 543 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: where am I right? Wife's going on? Who's here right? 544 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: What's going on in this moment? To be able to 545 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: know when we've lost our center and we're not. And 546 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 1: I think so much of the first steps is just 547 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: being able to catch that as a starting place. And 548 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: then when we do feel the uneasiness and we do 549 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: notice that there's something going on, to ideally not react 550 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 1: in that moment, to just try and navigate whatever's present. 551 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 1: And then come back and pick it up later. What 552 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: was happening for me in that meeting there, and what 553 00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: was happening when my colleague said that thing, And all 554 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: of a sudden I got really really defensive, like what 555 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: was that about? I mean, ultimately, in doing this work 556 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: for a long time, I often explain it like this, 557 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: like everybody in our world is a gift. They're a 558 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: great teacher. 559 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 2: Right. 560 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: We're going to have people that come into our life 561 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: and we're going to flow with them, and it's going 562 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: to feel great, we're gonna laugh, we're gonna feel connected. 563 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: And then there's going to be other people that come 564 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,919 Speaker 1: into our world that we're going to bump up against, 565 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: where we're going to feel irritated by them, where we're 566 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: going to judge them, where they're going to be one 567 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: of our greatest teachers. And it's our job in those 568 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: moments to figure out what it is that they're here 569 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: to teach us, right, I mean, they don't know they're 570 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: teaching us, right, obviously, they're just doing their do But 571 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: it's our job to be curious as to what does 572 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: this person bring up in me? What is this about? 573 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: Do they make me feel like I'm not good? Enough, right, 574 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: and that's on me. Do they remind me of my 575 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: relationship with my brother where it was all about competition? 576 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: Is this about oh gosh, I'm having feelings of jealousy 577 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: because what that person's doing. Well, Actually, what that's wakening 578 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: in me is that's what I really want. So what 579 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: a gift? Right, They're just showing me what I'm desiring, 580 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: what I want to move towards. Everybody's a beautiful teacher 581 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: for us if we're willing to look through that lens, 582 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: and it's our job to be able to be aware 583 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 1: enough to be able to catch that. That for me 584 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: is emotional intelligence, and it starts firstly by being aware 585 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: enough to go, oh, there's something off here, right, and 586 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: what do I need to do now. For some people, 587 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: that can just be journaling, it can be having a 588 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: listening partner, it can be therapy, it can be different 589 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: places we need to take it. But I think if 590 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 1: you are brave enough to lean in, if you are 591 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: brave enough to own the pieces that turn up for you, well, 592 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: that is the first steps towards living a really powerful 593 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: life of freedom, right, Because we're now no longer at 594 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: the mercy of everyone else, you know, we get to 595 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: be aware, and we get to stand in our own power, 596 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: working through our stuff and creating the life that we want. 597 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: I love that, and it's definitely not as easy as that, 598 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: but I might. Let's go with the bigger picture, he 599 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: lo it Leelle. 600 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time. I could talk 601 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 2: and listen to you for so many more hours, but 602 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 2: we're going to. 603 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 1: Get kicked out in the studio. We have to wrap up. 604 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 605 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: Thanks you for having me gosh. 606 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 2: I just adore Layel. What I'm taking with me is 607 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 2: her invitation to ask where am I right now? Am 608 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 2: I responding as my grounded adult self or am I 609 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 2: reacting from an old childhood pattern? That awareness is the 610 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,120 Speaker 2: first step to shifting how we show up. So next 611 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 2: time you feel defensive in a meeting, maybe pause and 612 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 2: get curious about what's really being stirred up. And if 613 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 2: you want to know more about how our inner lives 614 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 2: shape our work, I recommend listening to part one of 615 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 2: my chat with Layel if you haven't already, and there's 616 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 2: a link to that in the show notes. And if 617 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,959 Speaker 2: this episode gave you something useful, share it with someone 618 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 2: who you think will love it. Too and follow so 619 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: you don't miss next week's episode. 620 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: If you like. 621 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 2: Today's show, make sure you hit follow on your podcast 622 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 2: app to be alerted when new episodes drop. How I 623 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 2: Work was recorded on the traditional land of the Warringery people, 624 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 2: part of the Coulan nation.