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Speaker 1: Now, Parliament is back on in the Northern Territory this

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Speaker 1: week and there's plenty on the agenda with the rollout

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Speaker 1: of OC spray getting underway on Monday. Now, we learned

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Speaker 1: there'd been more than two hundred and fifty Territorians to

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Speaker 1: purchase OC spray on that first day of sales in

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Speaker 1: the NT, and we heard from the Chief Minister that

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Speaker 1: the systems in place immediately identified four people who were

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Speaker 1: ineligible to buy that spray. One is believed to have

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Speaker 1: been served with a notice to appear. Now, the average

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Speaker 1: age of the OC spray buyer is forty seven years old.

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Speaker 1: The Opposition leader Selena Ubo joins me on the line.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Selena.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Good to have you on the show. Now, Selena, more

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Speaker 1: than two hundred and fifty sales on that first day,

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Speaker 1: the system immediately pinned four people who were ineligible. What

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Speaker 1: do you make of those numbers?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's interesting. There's been obviously a lot

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Speaker 2: of talk about the OC spray being available to the public.

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Speaker 2: Will it keep the community safer? The only time will tell.

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Speaker 2: But I think people who've wanted to get the OC

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Speaker 2: spray have gone out and got it.

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Speaker 1: Do you reckon in terms of those four people. I

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Speaker 1: don't know whether there were many questions asked about this

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Speaker 1: yesterday in parliament, but in terms of those four people

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Speaker 1: that were pinned for being ineligible, do you know if like,

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Speaker 1: did the government have much to say yesterday about whether

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Speaker 1: they've now returned that OC spray or not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie, I think yesterday it was eight people on

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Speaker 2: the prohibited person's list and six of the sprays were

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Speaker 2: retrieved from within the eighth, so I believe there's two

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Speaker 2: others that the police may be trying to track down.

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Speaker 2: So I'm sure we'll get an update. We'll hope we

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Speaker 2: get an update on that at some point today. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if the system's in place and it's doing its job,

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Speaker 2: that's great. We only, of course call and make sure

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Speaker 2: that the government's doing their job and making sure they

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Speaker 2: can continue to work on mechanisms and processes and programs

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Speaker 2: that are going to keep our community safe in the

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Speaker 2: long run. We know this is a I'm all change

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Speaker 2: for the tech, well big change for the territory, but

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Speaker 2: you know, a small focus in terms of community safety.

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Speaker 2: We want to make sure that that big focus on

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Speaker 2: long term community safety remains a priority of the government.

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Speaker 1: Look, we're going to catch up with the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Police after ten o'clock this morning, so I'll try and

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Speaker 1: find out what the go is with those eight people

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Speaker 1: and with those you know, with the further sprays that

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Speaker 1: need to be returned. Selena, what do you reckon needs

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Speaker 1: to be monitored over the next twelve months while this

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Speaker 1: trial is underway to determine whether it is a success

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Speaker 1: or not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie, I think the biggest thing that I've heard

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Speaker 2: is around misuse, and of course we don't want anyone

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Speaker 2: across the territory to be purchasing OC spray or getting

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Speaker 2: their hands on OC spray and misusing it in the

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Speaker 2: incorrect way. That will be the biggest thing my team

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Speaker 2: and I keep an eye on because that's what's been

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Speaker 2: articulated to us and the concerns that have been questioned

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Speaker 2: to us. We haven't received necessarily the answers from government

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Speaker 2: on that. We'll continue to monitor that, of course, But

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Speaker 2: if the retailers are happy with the process and they're

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Speaker 2: feeling comfortable, I think that's a good thing. Katie. The

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Speaker 2: people who purchased the OC spray, if they're feeling a

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Speaker 2: bit more safer and having that to keep them safe

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Speaker 2: in the community. That's a positive for them. We want

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Speaker 2: to make sure that there's no negative impact on the

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Speaker 2: community overall.

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Speaker 1: Selena. Yesterday, Will Chance he made headlines after he suggested

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Speaker 1: that members of the COLP should be sprayed with OC

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Speaker 1: spray outside of Parliament if they're that confident with its use.

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Speaker 2: Do you agree, Chance, he's been a bit cheeky too.

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Speaker 2: I mean we've heard from on a serious note though,

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Speaker 2: we've heard from police that the trained officers police and

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Speaker 2: also the transit officers. Anyone who's using OC spray in

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Speaker 2: a professional manner and a trained manner, they do have

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Speaker 2: to undergo that training, which does include being sprayed themselves

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Speaker 2: in that training, so that they know what the consequence, start,

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Speaker 2: the impact and what the mobility of a person who

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Speaker 2: is going to be spray in the face. What that

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Speaker 2: then allows them to do around that, you know, the

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Speaker 2: care and protection across the community in their roles. I think,

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Speaker 2: you know she is a bit cheeky of Chancey, of course,

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Speaker 2: I know, but I mean the police do it. You know,

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Speaker 2: the government's brought this in.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, I do think it's worth noting though that

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Speaker 1: my understanding of the OC spray that is available to

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Speaker 1: us members of the public is not as high strength

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Speaker 1: as what the Northern Territory police use. But then I

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Speaker 1: have heard that discussion about sort of the duty of

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Speaker 1: care for people if you do spray somebody, but you know,

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Speaker 1: if someone's trying to attack you on you know, like

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Speaker 1: while you're out for a runner. If somebody tries to

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Speaker 1: sexually assault you and you spray them, then what are

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Speaker 1: you expected to render them assistance after they've tried to

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Speaker 1: inappropriately touch you? Like, I'm just not sure you know

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Speaker 1: where the lines are?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And Katie, I think that's probably a big concern

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Speaker 2: around the unanswered questions because there's been so many hypotheticals

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Speaker 2: that have been brought to our attention which we can't

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Speaker 2: answer and the government can answer either. So you know,

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Speaker 2: when we're talking about what is there a duty care?

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Speaker 2: Is there a liability? What happens after? What if someone

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Speaker 2: didn't have, you know, a malicious intent and was wrongly

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Speaker 2: you know, anticipated that they did. Like there's all these

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Speaker 2: different scenarios that we just we just can't answer, and

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Speaker 2: the government hasn't necessarily put out you know, a fax,

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Speaker 2: which is you know, the frequently asked questions around this,

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Speaker 2: and I think that would probably help people were going, well,

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Speaker 2: a scenario X, and this would be the consequence scenario

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Speaker 2: why this would be the consequence. So I think that

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Speaker 2: would really help, you know, I've been asking that for

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Speaker 2: the last week now, a frequently asked questions sort of

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Speaker 2: fact sheet, and I think that would help the general

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Speaker 2: community and plug in all these you know, unusual situations

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Speaker 2: that come to mind and unfortunately some real situations that

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Speaker 2: people have found themselves in. What would then be the

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Speaker 2: consequence around an action an impact for the OC spray

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Speaker 2: And I think if people can get a little bit

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Speaker 2: of clarity around that, I think that'll put people's maybe

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Speaker 2: give people a bit more peace of mind.

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Speaker 1: Selena, let's move along. I know that the colp's proposed

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Speaker 1: changes to antidiscrimination legislation have been put on whold with

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Speaker 1: the government continuing talks with stakeholders. Is what they've said.

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Speaker 1: Is this a good move from your perspective?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think this highlights Katie that unfortunately the government

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Speaker 2: hasn't been doing their job whilst they have been focused

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Speaker 2: on crime, law and order, which is of course a

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Speaker 2: huge variety across the Northern Territory. That really dropped the

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Speaker 2: ball on this one. They've had the time to be

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Speaker 2: able to go out and consult, which is what people

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Speaker 2: expect from a government. They did not send this very

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Speaker 2: important piece of legislation to the Scrutiny Committee, which is

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Speaker 2: what we've seen with six pieces of legislation out of

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Speaker 2: the twenty nine laws that have come to the Territory

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Speaker 2: Parliament so far. So this was something that we have

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Speaker 2: heard lots and lots of different takes on what people

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Speaker 2: want to see in or out of the Any Discrimination Bill. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: has not been a lot of consultation around this. That's

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Speaker 2: been a big concern and the government's found themselves at

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Speaker 2: a bit of a blunder with this one. Katie, do

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Speaker 2: you reckon.

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Speaker 1: They're doing it? Do you think they're pandering to certain

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Speaker 1: groups or what do you thinks going on?

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Speaker 2: I think absolutely, I think they have not kept their

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Speaker 2: eye on this very important bill. They've underestimated the impact

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Speaker 2: on the terris story, on the community, on stakeholders, on

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Speaker 2: community groups, on organizations, on our faith based sector. They

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Speaker 2: haven't done the hard work and the heavy lifting that

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Speaker 2: is expected of a bill of this type of complexity, Katie, And.

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Speaker 1: So what do you reckon needs to happen from this

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Speaker 1: point with these bills, Seleater. I mean they're obviously they're

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Speaker 1: saying it's going to forward your head, but it's going

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Speaker 1: to take more time. By the sounds of it, you've

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Speaker 1: got concerns that they are pandering to certain groups. So

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Speaker 1: we're too from here.

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Speaker 2: Well, we've been conducting our own round table sessions ourselves

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Speaker 2: in the timeframe that we expected the bill to be

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Speaker 2: put forward. We know as early as last week, Katie,

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Speaker 2: the Attorney General, Mari Clear Boothby wrote to stakeholders saying,

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Speaker 2: you know the Ended Discrimination Bill will come on this

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Speaker 2: Parliament sittings in September. It's obviously not now. They do

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Speaker 2: have time to be able to go out and consult properly,

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Speaker 2: which is what we hope they do. Also means us

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Speaker 2: in opposition, Katie, we can continue to do some of

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Speaker 2: our own work and particularly around roundtables and connections across

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Speaker 2: different community sector about the bill. That's not necessarily a

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Speaker 2: bad thing, but it just shows that if the ball

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Speaker 2: is dropped by the government, it does have a big

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Speaker 2: impact and it's really upset quite a lot of people

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Speaker 2: who have been anticipating this week and particularly the changes,

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Speaker 2: whether they want changes or don't want the changes. There's

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Speaker 2: a bit of a heightened state around this particular bill.

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Speaker 2: It does need to be done with care and we

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Speaker 2: can only hope the government's actually going to do their job. Now.

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Speaker 1: Now, I want to ask you yesterday or the day before,

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Speaker 1: actually it was revealed that a major gas facility in

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Speaker 1: Darwin has been leaking methane for nearly two decades now.

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Speaker 1: We spoke to the Environment Centers Kirsty Howie about this

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Speaker 1: on the show yesterday, about the Santos owned LNG tank

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Speaker 1: near Wickham and the claims that it's been leaking methane

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Speaker 1: since two thousand and six. Now Santos has not been

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Speaker 1: asked to solve that issue, despite the anti regulators allegedly

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Speaker 1: learning of that leak in twenty twenty. We did read

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Speaker 1: out a statement several times yesterday from Santos. Now Labor

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Speaker 1: was obviously in power at that time twenty twenty. Did

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Speaker 1: you have any idea why the public were not notified?

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Speaker 2: Well, this is a huge concern for us in opposition

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Speaker 2: because we were in government for eight years and this

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Speaker 2: was not flagged to us at all. Case really, I

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Speaker 2: think that's a huge concern. I was a minister for

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Speaker 2: six years towards the second half of sorry in the

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Speaker 2: second term of our labor government. That's when we were

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Speaker 2: aware of the black Tip and the reservations of gas

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Speaker 2: going low there and that was very stressful. But nothing

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Speaker 2: about the methane leak at all. And it was the

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Speaker 2: Environment Center of the Northern Territory who brought it to

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Speaker 2: our attention as well. So how could the community the

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Speaker 2: expectation that we see, you know, our big industries in

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory adhering to particular regulations around the environment

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Speaker 2: and workplace safety. How could something like this go on

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Speaker 2: for that many years and government not know about it.

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Speaker 2: It's quite phenomenal.

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Speaker 1: And so but when the NT regulators allegedly did learn

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Speaker 1: of that leak in twenty twenty, I mean, did you

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Speaker 1: you became aware of it? Then? I'm assuming no, not

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Speaker 1: at all.

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Speaker 2: This was literally brought to my attension last week case Jodjo.

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Speaker 2: It is not absolutely serious and that is a huge concern.

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Speaker 2: I think the questions around has there been an environmental impact,

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Speaker 2: what's going to be done now that it is known,

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Speaker 2: and it's been uncovered that this has been going on

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Speaker 2: for so long.

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Speaker 1: I think, So do you think's to blame for? Like,

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Speaker 1: who do you think is to blame for you guys,

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Speaker 1: like when you were even in like when you're in government,

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Speaker 1: for you guys not being notified? Was it the department?

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Speaker 2: Was it?

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Speaker 1: You know? Like why were you like were you I

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Speaker 1: know you were a minister at that time as well?

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Speaker 1: Why was the whole cabinet not notified?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want to focus on blame game, but

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Speaker 2: I do have a lot of questions that unfortunately are

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Speaker 2: un answered. If I get more detail, happy to share

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Speaker 2: that with you. But I think this is such a

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Speaker 2: bizarre situation to be made aware of after such a

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Speaker 2: long time, Katie. And that's the big concern. How could

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Speaker 2: something like this happen for so long in the territory

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Speaker 2: without the awareness but not even you know, the executive

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Speaker 2: of government awareness.

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Speaker 1: Do you think do you think that there needs to

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Speaker 1: be some changes now? Well? What do you reckon needs

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Speaker 1: to you know, to sort of happen to avoid a

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Speaker 1: situation that could be similar to this again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm still learning with some of the areas

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Speaker 2: of regulation of what has been changed or not changed

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Speaker 2: under CLP government. I think what we see very clearly

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Speaker 2: in the territory is the conversation. People want to see

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Speaker 2: economic development, They want to see business and industry operate

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Speaker 2: within those frameworks and the expectation of the community, and

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Speaker 2: they want to see their environment protected. Getting all of

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Speaker 2: those three areas right I think is really important for

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Speaker 2: the territory and for the community with peace of mind

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Speaker 2: when something goes wrong in one of those three areas,

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Speaker 2: whether it's law, regulations, policy communication. In this case, I

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Speaker 2: think that there definitely has to be some learning points

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Speaker 2: that I'm really keen to get to the bottom of

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Speaker 2: it so I can provide some constructive commentary, help and

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Speaker 2: see what the government's doing around this area as well,

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Speaker 2: because we don't want to have a situation in the

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Speaker 2: territory where this ever happens again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, fair cool, Selena, What is on your agenda this

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Speaker 1: week as the opposition leader? I know, obviously you know

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Speaker 1: the government's got their different pieces of legislation that they're

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Speaker 1: probably keen to focus on. What are you guys keen

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Speaker 1: to hold them to account on?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie, we had three bits of legislation go through

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Speaker 2: which we supported in the labor opposition and that was fine.

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Speaker 2: We were very comfortable with that they all passed yesterday.

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Speaker 2: We put a matter of public importance about education and

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Speaker 2: holding the government to accounts around the Better Fair Schools Agreement,

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Speaker 2: making sure that that money is resourced for our schools

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Speaker 2: and our students, but not for other Purposesdially.

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Speaker 1: Did you ask some more questions about, you know, the

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Speaker 1: electricity bills that I know you and I spoke about

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I asked that apparently the education is Joe Hersey says, no,

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Speaker 2: none of the Better Fare School Agreement funding is going

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Speaker 2: to be used for those power bills, so I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure who's paying for them now, Katie. So we'll definitely

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Speaker 2: be following up with those questions. And now the any

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Speaker 2: Discrimination Bill has been pulled, so we're actually not sure.

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Speaker 2: There's only one other piece of legislation on the schedule,

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Speaker 2: and the government does control the parliamentary schedule, so there's

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Speaker 2: only one other piece of legislation that is up for debate,

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Speaker 2: and that's something that we've got a few questions about,

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Speaker 2: but predominantly we look like we're going to support that,

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Speaker 2: So I hope we don't go back to the old

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Speaker 2: Adam Giles Day's Katie, where there's a lot of ministerial

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Speaker 2: statements and reports and not much lawmaking in the territory Parliament.

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Speaker 1: Well, we'll wait to see, I suppose. But yeah, well

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Speaker 1: I hope there's plenty of changes going on because I

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Speaker 1: know people want to see some action. There's no doubt

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Speaker 1: about that, Selena. In terms of and I don't expect

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Speaker 1: you to reveal what you're going to be asking about

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Speaker 1: in question time, but any other issues that you guys

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Speaker 1: are quite keen to sort of focus on this week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, A lot is around the twelve months into the

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Speaker 2: COLP government. What are the commitments that they haven't delivered

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Speaker 2: on or haven't budgeted on. What's the timeframe for those commitments.

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Speaker 2: We asked a few of those questions yesterday, Katie. But

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Speaker 2: health is a big one as well. We haven't heard

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Speaker 2: the government come up and speak openly or put out

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Speaker 2: plans around how they're going to improve our health system

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Speaker 2: in the territory, and I think that's something we cannot

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Speaker 2: afford to slip. In the end, we'll be holding them

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Speaker 2: to account on that.

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Speaker 1: As Selena literally just got a message that comes through

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Speaker 1: that said get akd RDH is meant to be a

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Speaker 1: major hospital. Yes, why the heck is ultrasound and MRI

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Speaker 1: unavailable from four pm Monday to Friday, sonographer only on call.

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Speaker 1: I don't know much about that, but we always get

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Speaker 1: messages about health and you know, concerns around health. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: we've spoken last week about the pharmacy situation, and the

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Speaker 1: week before we've spoken on numerous occasions about those maternity services.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's I think that health is one that

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Speaker 1: needs some heavy focus.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, And we asked questions yesterday Katie about

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Speaker 2: the pharmacists, and also the independent members for Johnson did

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Speaker 2: as well. We're hearing directly from pharmacists that their pay

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Speaker 2: is being docked when they're taking protected action, which is

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Speaker 2: not the way that the process works, And the Health

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Speaker 2: Minister sort of bumbled away with his answer, sort of

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Speaker 2: fobbed it off to Joe Hersey's Public Employment minister. She

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Speaker 2: didn't have an answer for us either, So well, it's

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Speaker 2: either the government lying or the pharmacist could you know,

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Speaker 2: contacting us who are very concerned and upset, And I'm

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Speaker 2: going to believe the pharmacist, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Hey, the other issue that's been raised with us that

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Speaker 1: we did us the chief about yesterday. But I know

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Speaker 1: that there's people with a lot of concerns is Tenant

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Speaker 1: Creek and the crime that's being experienced in Tenant Creek.

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Speaker 1: We've spoke to the Mayor of Tenant last week about

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Speaker 1: those worries and certainly ask the Chief Minister whether additional

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Speaker 1: police need to be surged into Tenant Creek. She said that,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's not something that she's been that she's

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Speaker 1: had a request for at this point, but she'd go

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Speaker 1: and check. But certainly in Tenant Creek we are hearing

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Speaker 1: that the issues there of crime are not good.

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Speaker 2: Well, Katie, I've put the challenge to the Chief Minister

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Speaker 2: ly if Nokiara, if she wants to go and check,

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Speaker 2: she should go and spend a week in Tenant Creek,

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Speaker 2: actually listen to those concerns, be on the ground, spend

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Speaker 2: a few nights there. Don't fly in and out on

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Speaker 2: the police plane. Actually spend time on the ground, go

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Speaker 2: out into some of the areas of concern and hear

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Speaker 2: what people in the Barkley would like to see, and

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Speaker 2: then support that from her government.

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Speaker 1: Opposition leader Selena Hubo good to chat with you this morning.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Katie, thank you