Speaker 1: It's a Sunday morning and you're going for a walk
Speaker 1: down the street and you run into your neighbor. They've
Speaker 1: only recently moved into the area, but straight away they
Speaker 1: remember your name, and you're quite taken aback, and you know,
Speaker 1: really quite impressed. Then all of a sudden, you have
Speaker 1: a connection based off the simple fact that they made
Speaker 1: the effort to remember your name. If you're the neighbor
Speaker 1: of car Sales dot Com CEO Cameron McIntyre, this might
Speaker 1: be your experience because Cameron makes a concerted effort to
Speaker 1: always remember the names of the people he meets. And
Speaker 1: this isn't the only way Cameron might surprise you. If
Speaker 1: you sit in a meeting with him, he'll pay attention
Speaker 1: the whole time. He won't look at his phone once
Speaker 1: because for Cameron, it's important to stay present and give
Speaker 1: things his full attention. My name is doctor Ramantha Imba,
Speaker 1: an organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science consultancy
Speaker 1: invent here, and this is how I work a show
Speaker 1: about how to help you do your best work. So
Speaker 1: how did Cameron, who's at the head of a four
Speaker 1: billion dollar company, become so good at remembering names?
Speaker 2: When you meet someone for the first time. The easiest
Speaker 2: way for you to make a great impression on someone
Speaker 2: is to remember their name. And it's such an easy
Speaker 2: thing to do theoretically, but for many of us it's
Speaker 2: not that easy. But I guess what I've enjoyed about
Speaker 2: the pandemic that we've endured is, at least on a
Speaker 2: zoom call, you've got someone's name published at the bottom
Speaker 2: of the bottom of the box.
Speaker 3: That's been super easy to remember people's names.
Speaker 2: But I guess in a normal environment, I think there's
Speaker 2: probably I reckon I'd probably have about half a dozen
Speaker 2: different techniques for remembering people's name. So I think if
Speaker 2: I'm face to face and someone's handed me a business card,
Speaker 2: or I mean in a room where there's multiple people
Speaker 2: that have had to be business cards, what I do
Speaker 2: is I'll put people's business cards in front of me,
Speaker 2: and I'll put them in order of how those people
Speaker 2: are seated in front of me as well, so that
Speaker 2: I can't forget their name and I've got the right
Speaker 2: card in the right seat. If I don't have business cards,
Speaker 2: I guess one of the things I'll try and do
Speaker 2: is write people's names down on a pad, so that
Speaker 2: if a conversation goes for an hour or so, it's
Speaker 2: easy to refer the pads to remember people's names, so
Speaker 2: addressing them by their name, I think, if I'm meeting
Speaker 2: someone and they haven't had a me a card, what
Speaker 2: I try and do is, when you meet someone, the
Speaker 2: first I think, the thing people remember is they remember
Speaker 2: saying their name, but they often don't remember the person
Speaker 2: who's addressing them and giving them their name. So what
Speaker 2: I try and do is tune out from the fact
Speaker 2: I'm saying my name and just tune into the other
Speaker 2: person's name, and I repeat it to myself several times
Speaker 2: before I relax, And I really want to remember and
Speaker 2: try and make a pretty conscious effort of it. If
Speaker 2: I'm outside work and I may be meeting some new
Speaker 2: neighbors because we've moved into a new house, I actually
Speaker 2: use my phone and I use notes, and.
Speaker 3: I'll start making a list of all of my neighbors' names,
Speaker 3: and I'll have a list of neighbors names so that
Speaker 3: by the next time I see them, I've got a
Speaker 3: pretty good chance of remembering their name. And I think,
Speaker 3: if all else fails and someone tapped you on the shoulder,
Speaker 3: going down the street and addressed you by your name
Speaker 3: and you can't remember. There's the thing I always try
Speaker 3: and do is remember context of how I know that
Speaker 3: person and replay to them the meetings or the conversations
Speaker 3: or the scenarios where we've been together in the past.
Speaker 3: So at least if people know that I know who
Speaker 3: they are and we have that in common, and even
Speaker 3: though I might not have remembered their name, So that's
Speaker 3: how I try and deal with it.
Speaker 1: I like what you said about meetings in terms of
Speaker 1: putting the business cards in front of you in the
Speaker 1: order that people are seated around the table. And I
Speaker 1: want to know what's your philosophy of running a good meeting,
Speaker 1: because I imagine a lot of your week would be
Speaker 1: spent in meetings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a short meeting is a really good meeting.
Speaker 2: I don't have them, but I wish I did. It
Speaker 2: was just stand up, so literally stand up and not
Speaker 2: sit down, because I tend.
Speaker 3: To be faster that way. I think.
Speaker 2: The other thing, and I'm not saying I do this,
Speaker 2: but i'd like to is in a meeting, at the
Speaker 2: start of the meeting, set out what the expectation is
Speaker 2: for the meeting. In the first ten to fifteen seconds, well,
Speaker 2: this is what we want to get out of this meeting.
Speaker 2: And then at the conclusion of the meeting, actually talk
Speaker 2: about what you got out of the meeting.
Speaker 3: I think that's really important.
Speaker 2: And sometimes we'll have meetings here and you'll have to
Speaker 2: repeat what you got out of the meeting three or
Speaker 2: four times before it really sinks in. I like to
Speaker 2: do that just to make sure we all walk away
Speaker 2: or on the same page. I think the other thing
Speaker 2: I don't like slides. I think slides don't encourage conversation.
Speaker 2: It just means there's someone presenting. I think the few
Speaker 2: of the slides the better because it's more conversational. And
Speaker 2: if it's more conversational, it's more engaging and you're more
Speaker 2: likely to keep people focused and on point. And I
Speaker 2: think the other thing for me is if I'm on
Speaker 2: my phone and I'm in a meeting, that's not a
Speaker 2: good sign. It means I'm not engaged. So I always
Speaker 2: try and turn my phone over in front of me
Speaker 2: so it's not distracting me or my laptop for that matter,
Speaker 2: so I'm present and focused.
Speaker 3: But it can be a challenge.
Speaker 1: That's interesting because when I was doing my research for
Speaker 1: this interview. I spoke to someone that works with you,
Speaker 1: and she was really impressed that. She said she's never
Speaker 1: been in a meeting with you where she thought you
Speaker 1: were distracted, and you just mentioned then turning your phone over,
Speaker 1: closing your laptop. Is it as simple as that or
Speaker 1: is there more that you're doing to really be present
Speaker 1: in meetings?
Speaker 3: There isn't any more than that.
Speaker 2: I think I'm trying to be respectful to others, but
Speaker 2: I'm wanting to get something out of it as well.
Speaker 2: So time is precious for all of us. And if
Speaker 2: you've made time to meet with someone, a lease that
Speaker 2: you can do is stay on points, stay focused, and
Speaker 2: try and get something out of that conversation, which is
Speaker 2: going to be value. Are creative, not just for you
Speaker 2: but for them as well, because otherwise all these meetings
Speaker 2: get super expensive.
Speaker 1: Right absolutely, How do you, I guess, place value on
Speaker 1: your time in terms of accepting meetings to attend? Are
Speaker 1: there almost like limits or barriers that you would put
Speaker 1: in the way to protect your time but also be
Speaker 1: available to customers and shareholders and staff.
Speaker 2: That's an evolution, not a revolution, because you want to
Speaker 2: give your time to everyone but I think the thing
Speaker 2: that I appreci is just having a little bit of
Speaker 2: thinking time as well during the course of the day
Speaker 2: and just resetting from one meeting to the next. One
Speaker 2: of the frustrations I have is, you know, if I've
Speaker 2: got a, say, a meeting with our business partners in Korea,
Speaker 2: and they've taken the time to prepare material for that,
Speaker 2: it's making sure that you've got the time to invest
Speaker 2: in that pre read.
Speaker 3: And if you're back to back to back, it's super.
Speaker 2: Hard, and to try and read and be present in
Speaker 2: a meeting at the same time is really hard.
Speaker 3: So I think what I'm.
Speaker 2: Trying to do a little bit more of now is
Speaker 2: create a little bit of space between meetings. I'm trying
Speaker 2: to look at my diary now to one to two
Speaker 2: days ahead of time and just figure out where my
Speaker 2: pre work is and just making sure I'm set up
Speaker 2: in a good place when those meetings come around that
Speaker 2: I've done the work.
Speaker 3: And that takes quite a bit of effort.
Speaker 1: So in terms of building in time for pre reading
Speaker 1: and feeling like you're going into the meetings, is that
Speaker 1: something that happens because you just say to your assistant,
Speaker 1: just make sure that this is booked in, or what
Speaker 1: are the strategies that you're doing to make sure that
Speaker 1: you do have enough thinking time and reading time in
Speaker 1: amongst all these meetings.
Speaker 3: My EA will create that space, otherwise I'll do it.
Speaker 2: So I'll build in some time just to get on
Speaker 2: top of things and just block it out in my diary,
Speaker 2: I think. And again I'm not good at this, so
Speaker 2: don't use me as the example. But this is a
Speaker 2: state of where I want to be as opposed to
Speaker 2: where I am. But potentially using time off site where
Speaker 2: there is peace and quiet to actually get ahead on
Speaker 2: things like pre work and so on are pretty useful
Speaker 2: these days. So I think that's an area that I
Speaker 2: want to keep evolving in and using that time as
Speaker 2: well if I can create it or carve it out
Speaker 2: to get better at. But it's a combination of me
Speaker 2: and my EA helping me to create that thinking time.
Speaker 1: And I guess on that, like in terms of working
Speaker 1: from home versus working from the office, I'm assuming that
Speaker 1: you are currently hybrid in your approach. Is that correct?
Speaker 2: What we've done is we've evolved into a hybrid type model.
Speaker 2: So we're saying to the business we'd like everyone to
Speaker 2: be together on a Tuesday, Wednesday, and a Thursday every week,
Speaker 2: and then on a Monday and a Friday. You're happy
Speaker 2: to be flexible for people work remotely and based on
Speaker 2: their requirements.
Speaker 3: So we have moved to a hybrid model and we're
Speaker 3: one week.
Speaker 2: In and literally I just got off a conference call
Speaker 2: to the whole company and we're talking about the fact
Speaker 2: that it's worked well.
Speaker 3: I think that's probably going to be here to stay.
Speaker 1: How do you think about it in your own working
Speaker 1: life in terms of days where you're working from home
Speaker 1: versus the office, do you almost have a different mindset
Speaker 1: or a different focus depending on where you're working.
Speaker 2: From I'm probably not the best example of someone who
Speaker 2: works well at home and comes into work and can
Speaker 2: manage across both. I like to be at work because
Speaker 2: work is work and home is home for me, so
Speaker 2: mentally I like that separation of environment.
Speaker 3: But clearly I can do both if I'm working at home.
Speaker 2: The way I try to operate is I'll try and
Speaker 2: keep my day is consistent with an in office day,
Speaker 2: is what it would normally be. So it'll be an
Speaker 2: early start, let's work all the way through to lunchtime.
Speaker 2: I'll take a quick break for lunch, and then I'll
Speaker 2: get straight back into it, and I'll try and finish
Speaker 2: on a time frame that's sort of normal to what
Speaker 2: i'd finish if I was inside the office. I try
Speaker 2: and keep some consistency, but it's just the setting is
Speaker 2: a little bit different. But my natural preference is to
Speaker 2: be in the office as supposed to be at home.
Speaker 1: Okay, how do you use the commute time? Because I
Speaker 1: imagine that that must be quite novel after working from
Speaker 1: home for so long and now being enjoying being back
Speaker 1: in the office, What does that commute time look like
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 2: I don't spend a lot of time in commute because
Speaker 2: I'm not alive way away from the office. But I
Speaker 2: guess the thing I like about commute time and we
Speaker 2: all have spaces or places where we get to do
Speaker 2: some strategic or sort of creative, big picture type thinking.
Speaker 2: And for me, one of those places is the shower,
Speaker 2: and I think that's probably a.
Speaker 3: Lot of people would feel the same way.
Speaker 2: Or if I'm not it's not that space, I'm doing
Speaker 2: some exercise. Or if it's not that space, it's when
Speaker 2: I'm actually driving to work and driving home, I'm often
Speaker 2: listening to podcasts like yours. I'm reading a book while
Speaker 2: I'm coming into the office, but I'm not physically reading it.
Speaker 2: It's obviously an audio.
Speaker 3: Book good to hear, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I use that space and that time to think
Speaker 2: more laterally or to think more creatively and think about
Speaker 2: what the day has ahead of it.
Speaker 3: So it's productive time for me, not downtime with podcasts.
Speaker 1: What are your go to podcasts?
Speaker 3: Well? Yours?
Speaker 1: Now that is the correct answer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and doesn't matter about any others.
Speaker 1: I mean not really, No, are there other podcasts?
Speaker 3: It's only yours?
Speaker 1: What else are you taking inspiration from?
Speaker 2: I still like Ted Talks and I'll even listen to
Speaker 2: the same Ted Talk a couple of times, so for me,
Speaker 2: that's a go to podcast.
Speaker 1: I've heard that you are a big reader, though, and
Speaker 1: I want to know what books, business books or leadership
Speaker 1: books have had the biggest impact on you and how
Speaker 1: you lead.
Speaker 2: That's a really good question. So for me, one of
Speaker 2: the more recent books that I've read that I've really
Speaker 2: really liked, and it was written by a guy who
Speaker 2: was a coach, right, I mean this guy he was
Speaker 2: the coach that helped Sergey Brin develop Google. He was
Speaker 2: a Silicon Valley coach and his name was Bill Handball
Speaker 2: and a trillion dollar coach was the name of the book.
Speaker 2: And he talks about how he asked questions and led
Speaker 2: from in front, but also led from behind, so he
Speaker 2: would ask engaging questions that would help the Google founders
Speaker 2: think about how they should be evolving and running their
Speaker 2: business and evolving that over time. And for me, that
Speaker 2: book was really cool and I read that probably probably
Speaker 2: only twelve to eighteen months ago, and it's one of
Speaker 2: those books that I could voluntarily read again, other sort
Speaker 2: of books that have made a bit of a difference
Speaker 2: to me. So if I think about leading change and
Speaker 2: change management, there was a book that was written by
Speaker 2: another Bill.
Speaker 3: And what was Bill's last name? You put me on
Speaker 3: the spot.
Speaker 2: But anyway, this I'll describe what this book was about,
Speaker 2: and hopefully the author's name will come to me in
Speaker 2: a second.
Speaker 3: But the book was actually about a colony of penguins.
Speaker 1: It's not called Iceberg is melting?
Speaker 3: It is? It is?
Speaker 1: Okay, great, I've just been doing.
Speaker 3: I've been in front of a computer screen.
Speaker 1: That's right. I don't normally get on and search for books,
Speaker 1: but I was like, gosh, I have to know, but
Speaker 1: that's all right because we'll link to that in the show.
Speaker 3: Note And who wrote it?
Speaker 1: Not a Bill Holger Wrath Gebber and John Cotter, who
Speaker 1: has a change of management legend.
Speaker 3: There you go, Yeah it was.
Speaker 2: It wasn't Bill. You're right, it was John Cotter. And
Speaker 2: John Cotter is an amazing guy. I mean, this is
Speaker 2: totally off topic, but John Cotter. I had the honor
Speaker 2: of actually meeting John Cotter. This is a while ago,
Speaker 2: and this is a really good piece of advice for
Speaker 2: your listeners. And so said to John Cotter, John, if
Speaker 2: you look back on your career, and John's an old guy,
Speaker 2: he's been around, fantastic operator. What's one piece of advice
Speaker 2: that you would give any of us that have listened
Speaker 2: to you speak today? And one piece of advice was
Speaker 2: life is short, do something cool.
Speaker 3: And he's so right.
Speaker 2: I mean, life is not a dress rehearsal, right, I
Speaker 2: mean our careers start and finish, and where in our
Speaker 2: jobs and our careers for a limited time, make sure
Speaker 2: it counts. Make sure you do something cool. It's not
Speaker 2: a dress rehearsal. And for me, that was super valuable advice.
Speaker 2: That's actually helped me in my career evive over time,
Speaker 2: so that book was super important to me.
Speaker 1: Hey there, it's nearly time for a little ad break,
Speaker 1: but can I ask a favor of you? If you're
Speaker 1: enjoying how I work, I'd be super grateful if you
Speaker 1: can leave a little review or a star rating whereever
Speaker 1: you are listening to this podcast. It's super appreciated and
Speaker 1: it helps people find out about how I work. So
Speaker 1: thank you in advance. Okay, we're going to have Cameron
Speaker 1: back after this short break, and he's going to be
Speaker 1: talking about some of the best career advice he's ever received,
Speaker 1: and also some of his favorite business books that have
Speaker 1: had a huge impact on the way that he works.
Speaker 1: What's some other good career advice that you've been given
Speaker 1: or bad advice that you've decided not to take.
Speaker 3: Look.
Speaker 2: I think, in terms of career advice, my experience is
Speaker 2: you've got to be passionate about what you do. You've
Speaker 2: got to know you spend so much time doing what
Speaker 2: you do, you've really got to enjoy it, and you've
Speaker 2: got to be passionate about it. So whether it's passionate
Speaker 2: about about the tasks or the technical career that you have,
Speaker 2: whether it's passionate about the business that you're in or
Speaker 2: the people that you work with, you've got to have passion.
Speaker 3: You've got to really enjoy it. That's the first and
Speaker 3: the most important thing for me.
Speaker 2: You've got to be able to grow. You've got to
Speaker 2: put yourself into a position where you can grow and evolve.
Speaker 2: And I've always tried to surround myself with people that
Speaker 2: could either be mentors or sponsors of me, so people
Speaker 2: that would help me evolve. But I've also tried to
Speaker 2: have around me people I've enjoyed working with, people that
Speaker 2: are better than me, people that are smarter than me.
Speaker 2: I've always tried to surround myself with people like that.
Speaker 2: I guess other advice would be, yes, stay away from
Speaker 2: the politics. Just focus on the outcomes, focus on the strategy,
Speaker 2: focus on delivering value.
Speaker 3: It's like footy.
Speaker 2: Don't don't play the man, play the ball and always
Speaker 2: play the ball, would be my advice. And to get
Speaker 2: that promotion, you've really got to commit yourself and work hard.
Speaker 2: And I think there's no substitute for that. There's intelligence,
Speaker 2: but everyone has intelligence, and intelligence the ticket to the
Speaker 2: ball game it's hard work, and EQ I think that
Speaker 2: separate people from getting jobs to being successful in jobs,
Speaker 2: and that it probably might die tribe of advice that
Speaker 2: I've had over the years.
Speaker 1: Something I wonder as the CEO of a publicly listed company,
Speaker 1: And I think Carsale's market cap is about three billion dollars?
Speaker 1: Is that about right?
Speaker 2: No, it's probably and I don't, to be honest, I
Speaker 2: don't look at it every day, but I think it's
Speaker 2: probably about four and a half maybe or four and
Speaker 2: a half.
Speaker 1: All right, So three billion, give or take a billion,
Speaker 1: let's say a bit. I want to know, like, how
Speaker 1: does the share price affect you day to day? How
Speaker 1: many times a day are you checking this? If indeed
Speaker 1: you are looking at it daily?
Speaker 2: So your question that the way you framed that, that
Speaker 2: was a trick question to see if I actually actually
Speaker 2: knew what my market cap was right at this moment.
Speaker 1: That's right. It's like, oh, I was hoping to get
Speaker 1: you out there, checked it in a month or something?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, look, I or we don't spend a lot
Speaker 2: of time looking at the share price, and you can't.
Speaker 3: I mean, if you run your business based on what
Speaker 3: the share price.
Speaker 2: Is doing, you're going to get yourself in all sorts
Speaker 2: of knots.
Speaker 3: So you know what I do is I focus.
Speaker 2: On where am I adding value? Where's the business adding value?
Speaker 2: How do we build profitability? How do we build a
Speaker 2: sustainable business model and grow that business over time? And
Speaker 2: if that's where we're thinking, then the share price should
Speaker 2: take care of itself. So focus on running the business,
Speaker 2: focus on doing a great job of it, and the
Speaker 2: share price should hopefully follow that.
Speaker 3: And I guess that works well. I think in both
Speaker 3: theory and practice.
Speaker 2: Sometimes though, you can get disconnections between thinking and reality,
Speaker 2: and that's happened on the old occasion. So you know,
Speaker 2: share price might disconnect with where you might think value is,
Speaker 2: and the companies will, from time to time look at
Speaker 2: correcting that. And if I think of one example of that,
Speaker 2: back in twenty eleven, we did think our share price
Speaker 2: was undervalued, and so we invested in our own script
Speaker 2: by doing a buyback. And so from time to time
Speaker 2: companies might do that and might look at their capital
Speaker 2: structure that way. But in terms of share price, so
Speaker 2: on its own, we don't spend much time looking at
Speaker 2: it all.
Speaker 1: Really, but how do you personally disconnect from that? Almost
Speaker 1: because it sounds like that's what you're psychologically trying to do.
Speaker 1: But I mean, it's publicly listed company, it's in your face,
Speaker 1: and it's moving every day. Like, how do you actually
Speaker 1: practically disconnect from that?
Speaker 2: The practicality is you just have to And yeah, you'll
Speaker 2: get asked on the occasion you're walking down the street
Speaker 2: and you'll see a friend and like a GESUS share
Speaker 2: price is doing really well at the moment, or maybe
Speaker 2: you share price is not and GESU share price not
Speaker 2: doing really well at the moment, and you know there'll
Speaker 2: be reasons behind that, but you can't take it personally
Speaker 2: unless there's something structurally wrong or cyclically wrong with the
Speaker 2: way the business is being run. But outside of that,
Speaker 2: the market will dictate where the share price is based
Speaker 2: on what the market seeing at the time, and often
Speaker 2: that has nothing to do with your business. It might
Speaker 2: be more to do with macro factors about maybe the
Speaker 2: pandemic or interest rates or unemployment rates and so on.
Speaker 2: So you've really got to you've really just got to
Speaker 2: disconnect or at least understand have an understanding as to
Speaker 2: why things might be the way they are.
Speaker 3: But day to day, I mean you've just.
Speaker 2: Got to You've just got to stay focused on running
Speaker 2: the business and tuning out from all that.
Speaker 1: I can imagine your role would be very stressful, like
Speaker 1: there'd be so much pressure given your role, given the
Speaker 1: size of the company. And something I've heard about you
Speaker 1: is that you never seem to get flustered. I guess
Speaker 1: from an outsider's point of view, And I want to know,
Speaker 1: how does that ring true to you? When I say that,
Speaker 1: do you go, yeah, I feel like that is how
Speaker 1: I operate in this world. I don't get flustered.
Speaker 3: I've got to figure out who you've been talking to.
Speaker 1: I'll reveal my sources after the interview. Yeah, dilect Does
Speaker 1: that ring true to you? Or do you feel like
Speaker 1: you're sometimes flastered on the inside but just remaining composed
Speaker 1: on the outside.
Speaker 3: That's absolutely true, right, I mean.
Speaker 2: You call it composure, right, And I guess as a leader,
Speaker 2: I mean there's just no excuse. You have to stay composed,
Speaker 2: even when you might be feeling a little bit irritated.
Speaker 2: It's super important that you do stay composed, because if
Speaker 2: you don't, it's a poor reflection on leadership, and that
Speaker 2: sort of thing is contagious in an organization. So composure
Speaker 2: is mission critical. I guess, for me, when I feel
Speaker 2: a little bit irritated, what are my strategies in terms
Speaker 2: of dealing with that? If you think about it from
Speaker 2: that point of view, I guess what I try and
Speaker 2: do is put things into context. So, yeah, there's an
Speaker 2: issue that I'm dealing with, I might put it into
Speaker 2: context of my own personal health or you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: at least I've got my health, or at least I've
Speaker 2: got my family, or at least I've got my friends
Speaker 2: and happiness, and so try and contextualize as the issue
Speaker 2: that you're dealing with, and often that helps you talk
Speaker 2: yourself off the ledge. I guess the other thing might be,
Speaker 2: if it's a real work related issue, to come back
Speaker 2: to that earlier discussion around our share price and what
Speaker 2: have you, maybe I'll put it into the context of
Speaker 2: this issue is nothing in the context of the expectations
Speaker 2: of the market, or the expectations of my employees and
Speaker 2: how they're feeling engaged, so get over it would be
Speaker 2: another way I'd address it and ensure it remaining composed.
Speaker 3: I guess if all that fails.
Speaker 2: There'd be maybe one or two people inside the organization
Speaker 2: where you can vent to making sure that you've got
Speaker 2: your people around you that you trust, or might be
Speaker 2: an external person who you trust, who understands your business,
Speaker 2: understands you and what you're going through.
Speaker 3: Just having that.
Speaker 2: External perspective as well to one help you vent, but
Speaker 2: also two to help you rationalize decision making that you've
Speaker 2: got so that all works in that context. If I'm
Speaker 2: thinking about an email, so sometimes you get emails that
Speaker 2: land in your inbox that you want to fire off
Speaker 2: a response to, And my strategy around that is I'll
Speaker 2: write a response, but I'll put it in my drafts
Speaker 2: and I'll leave it there for twenty four hours, and
Speaker 2: then I'll come back and have another look at it
Speaker 2: the next day, and if i still feel the same
Speaker 2: way about it, then I'll show it to someone else
Speaker 2: and get a second person's opinion before I send it,
Speaker 2: so that I'm not acting irrationally or not acting in
Speaker 2: a manner that's not composed. So for me, composure is
Speaker 2: super important. It's like the duck that swims along the water.
Speaker 2: It may look like you're swimming calmly along the top
Speaker 2: of the water, but underneath you you're paddling pretty hard,
Speaker 2: and it's making sure that's the impression that I'm leaving
Speaker 2: on people.
Speaker 3: Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: It does, and that's an interesting example with the email.
Speaker 1: Also probably means that it's a good way of avoiding
Speaker 1: making news headlines as well. Do you use that approach?
Speaker 1: I guess like the sleep on it test, as I
Speaker 1: sometimes hear it referred to in relation to big decisions
Speaker 1: that you make at work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all the time.
Speaker 2: Although yeah, I like how people say I'm going to
Speaker 2: sleep on it, But if it's a big enough issue,
Speaker 2: then I'll get any sleep anyway. So it's more like
Speaker 2: I'll lie in bed and think about it issue. So yes, no,
Speaker 2: But that's the philosophy that I tend to try and practice,
Speaker 2: is I try not to get caught up in things,
Speaker 2: because it's so easy to get caught up and just
Speaker 2: misread things because you see things the way you see things,
Speaker 2: and sometimes you need to step back and you need
Speaker 2: to think about different contexts, you need to think about
Speaker 2: different angles, and that sleep on it factor helps you
Speaker 2: bring all those different positions into play in order for
Speaker 2: you to then make a more rational and composed decision
Speaker 2: or response. So I like that theory too.
Speaker 1: Are there are other ways that you're getting that perspective
Speaker 1: with some of the bigger decisions that you have to make.
Speaker 2: The other perspectives are having the right people around you
Speaker 2: that you trust, and you know, I'm in a very
Speaker 2: fortunate position. I've got lots and lots of great people
Speaker 2: around me, and so you having great counsel is super important.
Speaker 2: Inside the organization is super important, but also having great
Speaker 2: counsel outside the organization is super important too. So you're
Speaker 2: having a network of peers in similar organizations, in similar
Speaker 2: roles to you that you can bounce things off. And
Speaker 2: it's amazing that the conversations that you'll have about.
Speaker 3: A particular issue.
Speaker 2: You think you're unique, you think you're the only one
Speaker 2: that's had to deal with it, and you'll bounce it
Speaker 2: off three friends and they've all had to deal with
Speaker 2: it in the past twelve months. And having that network
Speaker 2: is really important to me, particularly if I get myself
Speaker 2: in a position where I do need that third party advice.
Speaker 2: I'm lucky, I've got you. I've got a great board too,
Speaker 2: and a fantastic chairman. So I think the strategy for
Speaker 2: me is old internalized first, figure things out. If I
Speaker 2: still need external counsel. Then I'll either go internally or
Speaker 2: I'll go externally, just depending on what the issue is
Speaker 2: and if there's any conflicts and so on, that sort
Speaker 2: of sit around it.
Speaker 1: Now, Cam, we're almost out of time, and I imagine
Speaker 1: you've probably got a meeting starting on the hour. So
Speaker 1: my final question for you is for listeners that want
Speaker 1: to connect with you in some way or connect with
Speaker 1: car sales, what is the best way for people to
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 2: Well, there's the car sales website, so I mean, if
Speaker 2: someone wants to connect with me, I'm on most forms
Speaker 2: of social media, so feel free to reach out through
Speaker 2: those social media networks or my email.
Speaker 3: Address is pretty straightforward.
Speaker 2: It's Cameron dot McIntyre at carsales dot com dot I
Speaker 2: use so I'm pretty reachable.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that probably the best ways.
Speaker 2: Or just go to the bottom the car sales website
Speaker 2: and you'll find plenty of ways to reach out.
Speaker 1: Fantastic cav. I've loved chatting to you and getting an
Speaker 1: insight into how you work and how you lead, so
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3: No, I mean it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: It was great, actually, I enjoyed it, So thanks for
Speaker 2: the chat.
Speaker 1: That is it for today's show. If you are enjoying
Speaker 1: How I Work, you might want to hit subscribe wherever
Speaker 1: you are listening to this podcast from because next week
Speaker 1: I'm very excited to have Wired co founder Kevin Kelly
Speaker 1: back on the show. He was awesome when I had
Speaker 1: him on a few months ago, and he's kindly offered
Speaker 1: to come back on and we are going to be
Speaker 1: talking about his latest project and a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: tools that he is loving. How I Work is produced
Speaker 1: by Inventing, with production support from dead Set Studios. The
Speaker 1: producer for this episode was Jenna Koda, and thank you
Speaker 1: to Martin Imba who did audio mix and makes everything
Speaker 1: sound better than it would have otherwise. See you next time.