1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: It's a Sunday morning and you're going for a walk 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: down the street and you run into your neighbor. They've 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: only recently moved into the area, but straight away they 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: remember your name, and you're quite taken aback, and you know, 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: really quite impressed. Then all of a sudden, you have 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: a connection based off the simple fact that they made 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: the effort to remember your name. If you're the neighbor 8 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: of car Sales dot Com CEO Cameron McIntyre, this might 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: be your experience because Cameron makes a concerted effort to 10 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: always remember the names of the people he meets. And 11 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: this isn't the only way Cameron might surprise you. If 12 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: you sit in a meeting with him, he'll pay attention 13 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: the whole time. He won't look at his phone once 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: because for Cameron, it's important to stay present and give 15 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: things his full attention. My name is doctor Ramantha Imba, 16 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 1: an organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science consultancy 17 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: invent here, and this is how I work a show 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: about how to help you do your best work. So 19 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: how did Cameron, who's at the head of a four 20 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: billion dollar company, become so good at remembering names? 21 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 2: When you meet someone for the first time. The easiest 22 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 2: way for you to make a great impression on someone 23 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: is to remember their name. And it's such an easy 24 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 2: thing to do theoretically, but for many of us it's 25 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 2: not that easy. But I guess what I've enjoyed about 26 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 2: the pandemic that we've endured is, at least on a 27 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,199 Speaker 2: zoom call, you've got someone's name published at the bottom 28 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: of the bottom of the box. 29 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 3: That's been super easy to remember people's names. 30 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: But I guess in a normal environment, I think there's 31 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 2: probably I reckon I'd probably have about half a dozen 32 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 2: different techniques for remembering people's name. So I think if 33 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: I'm face to face and someone's handed me a business card, 34 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 2: or I mean in a room where there's multiple people 35 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 2: that have had to be business cards, what I do 36 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 2: is I'll put people's business cards in front of me, 37 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: and I'll put them in order of how those people 38 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 2: are seated in front of me as well, so that 39 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 2: I can't forget their name and I've got the right 40 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 2: card in the right seat. If I don't have business cards, 41 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 2: I guess one of the things I'll try and do 42 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 2: is write people's names down on a pad, so that 43 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 2: if a conversation goes for an hour or so, it's 44 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: easy to refer the pads to remember people's names, so 45 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 2: addressing them by their name, I think, if I'm meeting 46 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 2: someone and they haven't had a me a card, what 47 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 2: I try and do is, when you meet someone, the 48 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 2: first I think, the thing people remember is they remember 49 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: saying their name, but they often don't remember the person 50 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 2: who's addressing them and giving them their name. So what 51 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 2: I try and do is tune out from the fact 52 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: I'm saying my name and just tune into the other 53 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 2: person's name, and I repeat it to myself several times 54 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 2: before I relax, And I really want to remember and 55 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 2: try and make a pretty conscious effort of it. If 56 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 2: I'm outside work and I may be meeting some new 57 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 2: neighbors because we've moved into a new house, I actually 58 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 2: use my phone and I use notes, and. 59 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 3: I'll start making a list of all of my neighbors' names, 60 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 3: and I'll have a list of neighbors names so that 61 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 3: by the next time I see them, I've got a 62 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 3: pretty good chance of remembering their name. And I think, 63 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 3: if all else fails and someone tapped you on the shoulder, 64 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 3: going down the street and addressed you by your name 65 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 3: and you can't remember. There's the thing I always try 66 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 3: and do is remember context of how I know that 67 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 3: person and replay to them the meetings or the conversations 68 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 3: or the scenarios where we've been together in the past. 69 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 3: So at least if people know that I know who 70 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 3: they are and we have that in common, and even 71 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 3: though I might not have remembered their name, So that's 72 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 3: how I try and deal with it. 73 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: I like what you said about meetings in terms of 74 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: putting the business cards in front of you in the 75 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: order that people are seated around the table. And I 76 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: want to know what's your philosophy of running a good meeting, 77 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: because I imagine a lot of your week would be 78 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: spent in meetings. 79 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a short meeting is a really good meeting. 80 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: I don't have them, but I wish I did. It 81 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: was just stand up, so literally stand up and not 82 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 2: sit down, because I tend. 83 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 3: To be faster that way. I think. 84 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 2: The other thing, and I'm not saying I do this, 85 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 2: but i'd like to is in a meeting, at the 86 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 2: start of the meeting, set out what the expectation is 87 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 2: for the meeting. In the first ten to fifteen seconds, well, 88 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: this is what we want to get out of this meeting. 89 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: And then at the conclusion of the meeting, actually talk 90 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 2: about what you got out of the meeting. 91 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 3: I think that's really important. 92 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 2: And sometimes we'll have meetings here and you'll have to 93 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 2: repeat what you got out of the meeting three or 94 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 2: four times before it really sinks in. I like to 95 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 2: do that just to make sure we all walk away 96 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 2: or on the same page. I think the other thing 97 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 2: I don't like slides. I think slides don't encourage conversation. 98 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 2: It just means there's someone presenting. I think the few 99 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 2: of the slides the better because it's more conversational. And 100 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 2: if it's more conversational, it's more engaging and you're more 101 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: likely to keep people focused and on point. And I 102 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: think the other thing for me is if I'm on 103 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 2: my phone and I'm in a meeting, that's not a 104 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 2: good sign. It means I'm not engaged. So I always 105 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 2: try and turn my phone over in front of me 106 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 2: so it's not distracting me or my laptop for that matter, 107 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 2: so I'm present and focused. 108 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 3: But it can be a challenge. 109 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: That's interesting because when I was doing my research for 110 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 1: this interview. I spoke to someone that works with you, 111 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: and she was really impressed that. She said she's never 112 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: been in a meeting with you where she thought you 113 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: were distracted, and you just mentioned then turning your phone over, 114 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: closing your laptop. Is it as simple as that or 115 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: is there more that you're doing to really be present 116 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: in meetings? 117 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 3: There isn't any more than that. 118 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: I think I'm trying to be respectful to others, but 119 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,559 Speaker 2: I'm wanting to get something out of it as well. 120 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 2: So time is precious for all of us. And if 121 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 2: you've made time to meet with someone, a lease that 122 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 2: you can do is stay on points, stay focused, and 123 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 2: try and get something out of that conversation, which is 124 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 2: going to be value. Are creative, not just for you 125 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 2: but for them as well, because otherwise all these meetings 126 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 2: get super expensive. 127 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: Right absolutely, How do you, I guess, place value on 128 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: your time in terms of accepting meetings to attend? Are 129 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: there almost like limits or barriers that you would put 130 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: in the way to protect your time but also be 131 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: available to customers and shareholders and staff. 132 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 2: That's an evolution, not a revolution, because you want to 133 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 2: give your time to everyone but I think the thing 134 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: that I appreci is just having a little bit of 135 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 2: thinking time as well during the course of the day 136 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 2: and just resetting from one meeting to the next. One 137 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 2: of the frustrations I have is, you know, if I've 138 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,679 Speaker 2: got a, say, a meeting with our business partners in Korea, 139 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 2: and they've taken the time to prepare material for that, 140 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 2: it's making sure that you've got the time to invest 141 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: in that pre read. 142 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 3: And if you're back to back to back, it's super. 143 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 2: Hard, and to try and read and be present in 144 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: a meeting at the same time is really hard. 145 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:33,679 Speaker 3: So I think what I'm. 146 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: Trying to do a little bit more of now is 147 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 2: create a little bit of space between meetings. I'm trying 148 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 2: to look at my diary now to one to two 149 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 2: days ahead of time and just figure out where my 150 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: pre work is and just making sure I'm set up 151 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: in a good place when those meetings come around that 152 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 2: I've done the work. 153 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 3: And that takes quite a bit of effort. 154 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: So in terms of building in time for pre reading 155 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: and feeling like you're going into the meetings, is that 156 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: something that happens because you just say to your assistant, 157 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: just make sure that this is booked in, or what 158 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: are the strategies that you're doing to make sure that 159 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: you do have enough thinking time and reading time in 160 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: amongst all these meetings. 161 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 3: My EA will create that space, otherwise I'll do it. 162 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 2: So I'll build in some time just to get on 163 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 2: top of things and just block it out in my diary, 164 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: I think. And again I'm not good at this, so 165 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 2: don't use me as the example. But this is a 166 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 2: state of where I want to be as opposed to 167 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 2: where I am. But potentially using time off site where 168 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 2: there is peace and quiet to actually get ahead on 169 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 2: things like pre work and so on are pretty useful 170 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 2: these days. So I think that's an area that I 171 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: want to keep evolving in and using that time as 172 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 2: well if I can create it or carve it out 173 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 2: to get better at. But it's a combination of me 174 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 2: and my EA helping me to create that thinking time. 175 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: And I guess on that, like in terms of working 176 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: from home versus working from the office, I'm assuming that 177 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 1: you are currently hybrid in your approach. Is that correct? 178 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 2: What we've done is we've evolved into a hybrid type model. 179 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 2: So we're saying to the business we'd like everyone to 180 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 2: be together on a Tuesday, Wednesday, and a Thursday every week, 181 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: and then on a Monday and a Friday. You're happy 182 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 2: to be flexible for people work remotely and based on 183 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 2: their requirements. 184 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 3: So we have moved to a hybrid model and we're 185 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 3: one week. 186 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: In and literally I just got off a conference call 187 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 2: to the whole company and we're talking about the fact 188 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 2: that it's worked well. 189 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 3: I think that's probably going to be here to stay. 190 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: How do you think about it in your own working 191 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: life in terms of days where you're working from home 192 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 1: versus the office, do you almost have a different mindset 193 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: or a different focus depending on where you're working. 194 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 2: From I'm probably not the best example of someone who 195 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 2: works well at home and comes into work and can 196 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 2: manage across both. I like to be at work because 197 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 2: work is work and home is home for me, so 198 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: mentally I like that separation of environment. 199 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 3: But clearly I can do both if I'm working at home. 200 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 2: The way I try to operate is I'll try and 201 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 2: keep my day is consistent with an in office day, 202 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 2: is what it would normally be. So it'll be an 203 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,599 Speaker 2: early start, let's work all the way through to lunchtime. 204 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 2: I'll take a quick break for lunch, and then I'll 205 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 2: get straight back into it, and I'll try and finish 206 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 2: on a time frame that's sort of normal to what 207 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 2: i'd finish if I was inside the office. I try 208 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 2: and keep some consistency, but it's just the setting is 209 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 2: a little bit different. But my natural preference is to 210 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 2: be in the office as supposed to be at home. 211 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: Okay, how do you use the commute time? Because I 212 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: imagine that that must be quite novel after working from 213 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: home for so long and now being enjoying being back 214 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: in the office, What does that commute time look like 215 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: for you. 216 00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 2: I don't spend a lot of time in commute because 217 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 2: I'm not alive way away from the office. But I 218 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: guess the thing I like about commute time and we 219 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 2: all have spaces or places where we get to do 220 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 2: some strategic or sort of creative, big picture type thinking. 221 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 2: And for me, one of those places is the shower, 222 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 2: and I think that's probably a. 223 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 3: Lot of people would feel the same way. 224 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 2: Or if I'm not it's not that space, I'm doing 225 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 2: some exercise. Or if it's not that space, it's when 226 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 2: I'm actually driving to work and driving home, I'm often 227 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 2: listening to podcasts like yours. I'm reading a book while 228 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 2: I'm coming into the office, but I'm not physically reading it. 229 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 2: It's obviously an audio. 230 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 3: Book good to hear, but. 231 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I use that space and that time to think 232 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: more laterally or to think more creatively and think about 233 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 2: what the day has ahead of it. 234 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 3: So it's productive time for me, not downtime with podcasts. 235 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: What are your go to podcasts? 236 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 3: Well? Yours? 237 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: Now that is the correct answer. 238 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and doesn't matter about any others. 239 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: I mean not really, No, are there other podcasts? 240 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 3: It's only yours? 241 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: What else are you taking inspiration from? 242 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 2: I still like Ted Talks and I'll even listen to 243 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 2: the same Ted Talk a couple of times, so for me, 244 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 2: that's a go to podcast. 245 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: I've heard that you are a big reader, though, and 246 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: I want to know what books, business books or leadership 247 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: books have had the biggest impact on you and how 248 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: you lead. 249 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 2: That's a really good question. So for me, one of 250 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 2: the more recent books that I've read that I've really 251 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 2: really liked, and it was written by a guy who 252 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 2: was a coach, right, I mean this guy he was 253 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 2: the coach that helped Sergey Brin develop Google. He was 254 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 2: a Silicon Valley coach and his name was Bill Handball 255 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 2: and a trillion dollar coach was the name of the book. 256 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 2: And he talks about how he asked questions and led 257 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 2: from in front, but also led from behind, so he 258 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 2: would ask engaging questions that would help the Google founders 259 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 2: think about how they should be evolving and running their 260 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 2: business and evolving that over time. And for me, that 261 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 2: book was really cool and I read that probably probably 262 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 2: only twelve to eighteen months ago, and it's one of 263 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 2: those books that I could voluntarily read again, other sort 264 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 2: of books that have made a bit of a difference 265 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: to me. So if I think about leading change and 266 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: change management, there was a book that was written by 267 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 2: another Bill. 268 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 3: And what was Bill's last name? You put me on 269 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,479 Speaker 3: the spot. 270 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 2: But anyway, this I'll describe what this book was about, 271 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 2: and hopefully the author's name will come to me in 272 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 2: a second. 273 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 3: But the book was actually about a colony of penguins. 274 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: It's not called Iceberg is melting? 275 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 3: It is? It is? 276 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: Okay, great, I've just been doing. 277 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 3: I've been in front of a computer screen. 278 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: That's right. I don't normally get on and search for books, 279 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: but I was like, gosh, I have to know, but 280 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: that's all right because we'll link to that in the show. 281 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 3: Note And who wrote it? 282 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: Not a Bill Holger Wrath Gebber and John Cotter, who 283 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: has a change of management legend. 284 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 3: There you go, Yeah it was. 285 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 2: It wasn't Bill. You're right, it was John Cotter. And 286 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 2: John Cotter is an amazing guy. I mean, this is 287 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 2: totally off topic, but John Cotter. I had the honor 288 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 2: of actually meeting John Cotter. This is a while ago, 289 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 2: and this is a really good piece of advice for 290 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 2: your listeners. And so said to John Cotter, John, if 291 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: you look back on your career, and John's an old guy, 292 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 2: he's been around, fantastic operator. What's one piece of advice 293 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 2: that you would give any of us that have listened 294 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 2: to you speak today? And one piece of advice was 295 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 2: life is short, do something cool. 296 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 3: And he's so right. 297 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 2: I mean, life is not a dress rehearsal, right, I 298 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 2: mean our careers start and finish, and where in our 299 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 2: jobs and our careers for a limited time, make sure 300 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 2: it counts. Make sure you do something cool. It's not 301 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 2: a dress rehearsal. And for me, that was super valuable advice. 302 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 2: That's actually helped me in my career evive over time, 303 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 2: so that book was super important to me. 304 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: Hey there, it's nearly time for a little ad break, 305 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: but can I ask a favor of you? If you're 306 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: enjoying how I work, I'd be super grateful if you 307 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: can leave a little review or a star rating whereever 308 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: you are listening to this podcast. It's super appreciated and 309 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: it helps people find out about how I work. So 310 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: thank you in advance. Okay, we're going to have Cameron 311 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: back after this short break, and he's going to be 312 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: talking about some of the best career advice he's ever received, 313 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: and also some of his favorite business books that have 314 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: had a huge impact on the way that he works. 315 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: What's some other good career advice that you've been given 316 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: or bad advice that you've decided not to take. 317 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 3: Look. 318 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 2: I think, in terms of career advice, my experience is 319 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 2: you've got to be passionate about what you do. You've 320 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: got to know you spend so much time doing what 321 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 2: you do, you've really got to enjoy it, and you've 322 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 2: got to be passionate about it. So whether it's passionate 323 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: about about the tasks or the technical career that you have, 324 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 2: whether it's passionate about the business that you're in or 325 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 2: the people that you work with, you've got to have passion. 326 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 3: You've got to really enjoy it. That's the first and 327 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 3: the most important thing for me. 328 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 2: You've got to be able to grow. You've got to 329 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: put yourself into a position where you can grow and evolve. 330 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 2: And I've always tried to surround myself with people that 331 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 2: could either be mentors or sponsors of me, so people 332 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 2: that would help me evolve. But I've also tried to 333 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 2: have around me people I've enjoyed working with, people that 334 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 2: are better than me, people that are smarter than me. 335 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 2: I've always tried to surround myself with people like that. 336 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 2: I guess other advice would be, yes, stay away from 337 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 2: the politics. Just focus on the outcomes, focus on the strategy, 338 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 2: focus on delivering value. 339 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 3: It's like footy. 340 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 2: Don't don't play the man, play the ball and always 341 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 2: play the ball, would be my advice. And to get 342 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 2: that promotion, you've really got to commit yourself and work hard. 343 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 2: And I think there's no substitute for that. There's intelligence, 344 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,919 Speaker 2: but everyone has intelligence, and intelligence the ticket to the 345 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 2: ball game it's hard work, and EQ I think that 346 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 2: separate people from getting jobs to being successful in jobs, 347 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 2: and that it probably might die tribe of advice that 348 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 2: I've had over the years. 349 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: Something I wonder as the CEO of a publicly listed company, 350 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: And I think Carsale's market cap is about three billion dollars? 351 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 1: Is that about right? 352 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 2: No, it's probably and I don't, to be honest, I 353 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 2: don't look at it every day, but I think it's 354 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 2: probably about four and a half maybe or four and 355 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 2: a half. 356 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: All right, So three billion, give or take a billion, 357 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 1: let's say a bit. I want to know, like, how 358 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 1: does the share price affect you day to day? How 359 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: many times a day are you checking this? If indeed 360 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: you are looking at it daily? 361 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 2: So your question that the way you framed that, that 362 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 2: was a trick question to see if I actually actually 363 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 2: knew what my market cap was right at this moment. 364 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: That's right. It's like, oh, I was hoping to get 365 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: you out there, checked it in a month or something? 366 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, look, I or we don't spend a lot 367 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 2: of time looking at the share price, and you can't. 368 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 3: I mean, if you run your business based on what 369 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 3: the share price. 370 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 2: Is doing, you're going to get yourself in all sorts 371 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 2: of knots. 372 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 3: So you know what I do is I focus. 373 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 2: On where am I adding value? Where's the business adding value? 374 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 2: How do we build profitability? How do we build a 375 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 2: sustainable business model and grow that business over time? And 376 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 2: if that's where we're thinking, then the share price should 377 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 2: take care of itself. So focus on running the business, 378 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 2: focus on doing a great job of it, and the 379 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 2: share price should hopefully follow that. 380 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 3: And I guess that works well. I think in both 381 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 3: theory and practice. 382 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 2: Sometimes though, you can get disconnections between thinking and reality, 383 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 2: and that's happened on the old occasion. So you know, 384 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 2: share price might disconnect with where you might think value is, 385 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 2: and the companies will, from time to time look at 386 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 2: correcting that. And if I think of one example of that, 387 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 2: back in twenty eleven, we did think our share price 388 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 2: was undervalued, and so we invested in our own script 389 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 2: by doing a buyback. And so from time to time 390 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,199 Speaker 2: companies might do that and might look at their capital 391 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 2: structure that way. But in terms of share price, so 392 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 2: on its own, we don't spend much time looking at 393 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 2: it all. 394 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: Really, but how do you personally disconnect from that? Almost 395 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: because it sounds like that's what you're psychologically trying to do. 396 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: But I mean, it's publicly listed company, it's in your face, 397 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: and it's moving every day. Like, how do you actually 398 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: practically disconnect from that? 399 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 2: The practicality is you just have to And yeah, you'll 400 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 2: get asked on the occasion you're walking down the street 401 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 2: and you'll see a friend and like a GESUS share 402 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 2: price is doing really well at the moment, or maybe 403 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 2: you share price is not and GESU share price not 404 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 2: doing really well at the moment, and you know there'll 405 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 2: be reasons behind that, but you can't take it personally 406 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 2: unless there's something structurally wrong or cyclically wrong with the 407 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 2: way the business is being run. But outside of that, 408 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 2: the market will dictate where the share price is based 409 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 2: on what the market seeing at the time, and often 410 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 2: that has nothing to do with your business. It might 411 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 2: be more to do with macro factors about maybe the 412 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 2: pandemic or interest rates or unemployment rates and so on. 413 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 2: So you've really got to you've really just got to 414 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 2: disconnect or at least understand have an understanding as to 415 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: why things might be the way they are. 416 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 3: But day to day, I mean you've just. 417 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,479 Speaker 2: Got to You've just got to stay focused on running 418 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 2: the business and tuning out from all that. 419 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: I can imagine your role would be very stressful, like 420 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: there'd be so much pressure given your role, given the 421 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 1: size of the company. And something I've heard about you 422 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 1: is that you never seem to get flustered. I guess 423 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: from an outsider's point of view, And I want to know, 424 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: how does that ring true to you? When I say that, 425 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: do you go, yeah, I feel like that is how 426 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: I operate in this world. I don't get flustered. 427 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 3: I've got to figure out who you've been talking to. 428 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: I'll reveal my sources after the interview. Yeah, dilect Does 429 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: that ring true to you? Or do you feel like 430 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: you're sometimes flastered on the inside but just remaining composed 431 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: on the outside. 432 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 3: That's absolutely true, right, I mean. 433 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 2: You call it composure, right, And I guess as a leader, 434 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 2: I mean there's just no excuse. You have to stay composed, 435 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 2: even when you might be feeling a little bit irritated. 436 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,719 Speaker 2: It's super important that you do stay composed, because if 437 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 2: you don't, it's a poor reflection on leadership, and that 438 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 2: sort of thing is contagious in an organization. So composure 439 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 2: is mission critical. I guess, for me, when I feel 440 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 2: a little bit irritated, what are my strategies in terms 441 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 2: of dealing with that? If you think about it from 442 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 2: that point of view, I guess what I try and 443 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 2: do is put things into context. So, yeah, there's an 444 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 2: issue that I'm dealing with, I might put it into 445 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 2: context of my own personal health or you know, I mean, 446 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 2: at least I've got my health, or at least I've 447 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 2: got my family, or at least I've got my friends 448 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 2: and happiness, and so try and contextualize as the issue 449 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 2: that you're dealing with, and often that helps you talk 450 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 2: yourself off the ledge. I guess the other thing might be, 451 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 2: if it's a real work related issue, to come back 452 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 2: to that earlier discussion around our share price and what 453 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 2: have you, maybe I'll put it into the context of 454 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 2: this issue is nothing in the context of the expectations 455 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 2: of the market, or the expectations of my employees and 456 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 2: how they're feeling engaged, so get over it would be 457 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 2: another way I'd address it and ensure it remaining composed. 458 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 3: I guess if all that fails. 459 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 2: There'd be maybe one or two people inside the organization 460 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 2: where you can vent to making sure that you've got 461 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 2: your people around you that you trust, or might be 462 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 2: an external person who you trust, who understands your business, 463 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 2: understands you and what you're going through. 464 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 3: Just having that. 465 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 2: External perspective as well to one help you vent, but 466 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 2: also two to help you rationalize decision making that you've 467 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 2: got so that all works in that context. If I'm 468 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 2: thinking about an email, so sometimes you get emails that 469 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 2: land in your inbox that you want to fire off 470 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 2: a response to, And my strategy around that is I'll 471 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 2: write a response, but I'll put it in my drafts 472 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 2: and I'll leave it there for twenty four hours, and 473 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 2: then I'll come back and have another look at it 474 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 2: the next day, and if i still feel the same 475 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 2: way about it, then I'll show it to someone else 476 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 2: and get a second person's opinion before I send it, 477 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,959 Speaker 2: so that I'm not acting irrationally or not acting in 478 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 2: a manner that's not composed. So for me, composure is 479 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: super important. It's like the duck that swims along the water. 480 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 2: It may look like you're swimming calmly along the top 481 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 2: of the water, but underneath you you're paddling pretty hard, 482 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 2: and it's making sure that's the impression that I'm leaving 483 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 2: on people. 484 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 3: Does that make sense? 485 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: It does, and that's an interesting example with the email. 486 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: Also probably means that it's a good way of avoiding 487 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: making news headlines as well. Do you use that approach? 488 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: I guess like the sleep on it test, as I 489 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: sometimes hear it referred to in relation to big decisions 490 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: that you make at work. 491 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, all the time. 492 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 2: Although yeah, I like how people say I'm going to 493 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 2: sleep on it, But if it's a big enough issue, 494 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 2: then I'll get any sleep anyway. So it's more like 495 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 2: I'll lie in bed and think about it issue. So yes, no, 496 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 2: But that's the philosophy that I tend to try and practice, 497 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 2: is I try not to get caught up in things, 498 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 2: because it's so easy to get caught up and just 499 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 2: misread things because you see things the way you see things, 500 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 2: and sometimes you need to step back and you need 501 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 2: to think about different contexts, you need to think about 502 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 2: different angles, and that sleep on it factor helps you 503 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 2: bring all those different positions into play in order for 504 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 2: you to then make a more rational and composed decision 505 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 2: or response. So I like that theory too. 506 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: Are there are other ways that you're getting that perspective 507 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: with some of the bigger decisions that you have to make. 508 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 2: The other perspectives are having the right people around you 509 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 2: that you trust, and you know, I'm in a very 510 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 2: fortunate position. I've got lots and lots of great people 511 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 2: around me, and so you having great counsel is super important. 512 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 2: Inside the organization is super important, but also having great 513 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 2: counsel outside the organization is super important too. So you're 514 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 2: having a network of peers in similar organizations, in similar 515 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 2: roles to you that you can bounce things off. And 516 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 2: it's amazing that the conversations that you'll have about. 517 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 3: A particular issue. 518 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 2: You think you're unique, you think you're the only one 519 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 2: that's had to deal with it, and you'll bounce it 520 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 2: off three friends and they've all had to deal with 521 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 2: it in the past twelve months. And having that network 522 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 2: is really important to me, particularly if I get myself 523 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 2: in a position where I do need that third party advice. 524 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 2: I'm lucky, I've got you. I've got a great board too, 525 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 2: and a fantastic chairman. So I think the strategy for 526 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 2: me is old internalized first, figure things out. If I 527 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 2: still need external counsel. Then I'll either go internally or 528 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 2: I'll go externally, just depending on what the issue is 529 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 2: and if there's any conflicts and so on, that sort 530 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 2: of sit around it. 531 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: Now, Cam, we're almost out of time, and I imagine 532 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: you've probably got a meeting starting on the hour. So 533 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: my final question for you is for listeners that want 534 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: to connect with you in some way or connect with 535 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: car sales, what is the best way for people to 536 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 1: do that. 537 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 2: Well, there's the car sales website, so I mean, if 538 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 2: someone wants to connect with me, I'm on most forms 539 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 2: of social media, so feel free to reach out through 540 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 2: those social media networks or my email. 541 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 3: Address is pretty straightforward. 542 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 2: It's Cameron dot McIntyre at carsales dot com dot I 543 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 2: use so I'm pretty reachable. 544 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 3: So yeah, that probably the best ways. 545 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 2: Or just go to the bottom the car sales website 546 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 2: and you'll find plenty of ways to reach out. 547 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 1: Fantastic cav. I've loved chatting to you and getting an 548 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: insight into how you work and how you lead, so 549 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time. 550 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 3: No, I mean it was a lot of fun. 551 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 2: It was great, actually, I enjoyed it, So thanks for 552 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 2: the chat. 553 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: That is it for today's show. If you are enjoying 554 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: How I Work, you might want to hit subscribe wherever 555 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: you are listening to this podcast from because next week 556 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: I'm very excited to have Wired co founder Kevin Kelly 557 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: back on the show. He was awesome when I had 558 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: him on a few months ago, and he's kindly offered 559 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: to come back on and we are going to be 560 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: talking about his latest project and a whole bunch of 561 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: tools that he is loving. How I Work is produced 562 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: by Inventing, with production support from dead Set Studios. The 563 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: producer for this episode was Jenna Koda, and thank you 564 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: to Martin Imba who did audio mix and makes everything 565 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: sound better than it would have otherwise. See you next time.