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Speaker 1: Now, yesterday you may have heard the Foreign Minister Penny

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Speaker 1: Wong as well as Defense Minister Richard Marles. They met

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Speaker 1: with the US Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln and also

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Speaker 1: the Secretary of Defense Austin Lloyd for a crucial meeting

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Speaker 1: on the Two Nations alliance and security. I know that

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Speaker 1: there was quite a bit of discussion in relation to

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Speaker 1: well the Pacific, indeed China's presence and the Center. They

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Speaker 1: were certainly center parts of those discussions, as well as

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Speaker 1: the nuclear submarines. But I do understand that they also

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Speaker 1: spoke about increased marine rotation. Joining us on the line

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Speaker 1: right now is John Coyne here is the head of

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Speaker 1: Northern Australia Strategic Policy Center at the Australian Strategic Policy Center.

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Speaker 2: I should say good morning to you John.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Gattie. We don't make it easy with titles

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Speaker 3: doing no and I read.

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Speaker 2: It out back to front there. Good to have you

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Speaker 2: on the show mate. Are you in the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: at the moment?

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Speaker 3: Look, I am. I'm up for my last visit for

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Speaker 3: the year, experiencing the heat. So all the Territorians will

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Speaker 3: be laughing as that Southern guy comes up here again

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Speaker 3: suffering from the heat and humidity.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it is warm, there is no doubt about that, John,

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Speaker 1: It's been very hot.

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Speaker 2: Hey young. What's been on the agenda for you while

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Speaker 2: you've been here though?

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Speaker 3: Look, a lot of discussions with industry, a lot of

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Speaker 3: discussions about what the Defense Strategic Review means for Northern

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Speaker 3: Australia large, what it might mean to industry, and really

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Speaker 3: discussions about how better you know, you can take a

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Speaker 3: proactive or the Territorians and North Australian can take a

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Speaker 3: proactive role in shaping that.

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Speaker 1: Now, what did you make of the meeting that was

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Speaker 1: held yesterday or earlier in the week and the comments

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Speaker 1: from both Australian polies and also the US Defense Secretary

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Speaker 1: and also US well, both Secretary of Defense, i should say,

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Speaker 1: and Secretary.

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Speaker 2: Of State for the US. What did you make of

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Speaker 2: those meetings?

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Speaker 3: Look, you know, Katie, there OSMON is one of those

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Speaker 3: really really important meetings in terms of the bilateral relationship.

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Speaker 3: So it happens every twelve months in the past, you know,

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Speaker 3: Australia has been the little partner in all of this.

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Speaker 3: So in answering that question, I've got two things. Where

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Speaker 3: the first thing reaction is this is that it really

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Speaker 3: reinforced that Australia is no longer the little partner in

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Speaker 3: that relationship, mainly because we have the most important strategic

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Speaker 3: geography in the Indo Pacific, you know, in terms of

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Speaker 3: it's the Goldilock Spot, not too close to the South

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Speaker 3: Johina Cee, but close enough so it's a fantastic place

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Speaker 3: that for the military to train. So you know, the

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Speaker 3: announcements really we're about expanding the rotational forces.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: Twenty four hours beforehand, Richard Marles, the Defense Minister of

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Speaker 3: Deputy PM, made a very clear staty curn around. He said,

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Speaker 3: you know there's no to be no US Navy nuclear

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Speaker 3: submarine bases in Australia. But if we look to this announcement,

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Speaker 3: so what we're going to see is not just the

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Speaker 3: US Marines coming in. He's also talking about more rotations

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Speaker 3: of US Army, more rotations of US Navy bombers and

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Speaker 3: fighter aircraft visiting more frequently. So there are good things

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Speaker 3: because they show the health of our partnership with the

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Speaker 3: US and our alliance on the other side of it.

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Speaker 3: And for territorium, I think what that means is is

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Speaker 3: more money coming into the economy, more opportunity in terms

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Speaker 3: of construction. So I see it as a really positive

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Speaker 3: economic out look and you know we have to get

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Speaker 3: the details, but a really positive economic outlook for the

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's something that you and I have spoken

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Speaker 1: about before, particularly our geography, and you know, we speak

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Speaker 1: about Australia and our partnership with the US, but then

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Speaker 1: when you talk about the Northern Territory, we are incredibly

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Speaker 1: an incredibly strategic location, aren't.

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Speaker 3: We look absolutely, But let's not all you know, sometimes

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Speaker 3: and I talk, we've about these things and we think

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Speaker 3: just in terms of you know, bombs, bases and things

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Speaker 3: that go bang and a night, but really is also

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Speaker 3: the other partners One of the things I've been talking

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Speaker 3: to people a lot Northern Australia. So you know, I

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Speaker 3: look at it. There's North Australia, you know, both Northern

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Speaker 3: w A and Northern Queensland. Since federation, we sort of

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Speaker 3: think about it as you know, the extent of Australian territory,

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Speaker 3: you know, that bit that we then defend from. In reality,

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Speaker 3: it's our connection point to the region. So you know,

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Speaker 3: if you're living in cans you know that the world's

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Speaker 3: largest expatriate population of PAF New Guinea lives in Cans. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know, there's thousands of years of trade between First

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Speaker 3: Nations people and people in Indonesia, East team Or and

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Speaker 3: part of New Guinea. So it's it's important because it's

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Speaker 3: also our connection to the world, to the region.

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Speaker 2: Well, it certainly is. And so then what do you think.

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Speaker 1: You know, obviously the discussions that were held between Australia

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Speaker 1: and the US throughout you know, earlier in the week,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of discussion about like you've touched

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Speaker 1: on about those submarines and also that discussion about the

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Speaker 1: marine rotation. Do you think it's going to mean for

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Speaker 1: us here in the territory that we'll see more marine activity.

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Speaker 3: Look, I think you'll see more US military activity. Whether

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Speaker 3: it's whether it's more marines or whether it's marines and army.

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Speaker 3: I think that remains to be seen. But you know,

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Speaker 3: for the average person in Darwin, you know, I would

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Speaker 3: say to you, you know, yes, you're going to expect

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Speaker 3: to see more military US military people coming and visiting,

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Speaker 3: enjoying recreationally the region. We're going to see more ship

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Speaker 3: visits and more planes flying in and that's going to

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Speaker 3: drive a lot of economic growth. You know, they're going

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Speaker 3: to want to eat, spend money, drink a beer, all

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Speaker 3: of those sorts of things. So I think, you know, yes,

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Speaker 3: you're going to see more I'm not sure if there's

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Speaker 3: going to be marines, but certainly you know we're also

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Speaker 3: going to see a strengthening of big visiting facilities here.

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Speaker 3: So what by that. We're going to see some construction,

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Speaker 3: no doubt where you know, on air fields and bases

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Speaker 3: to make them more protected.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, on the strengthening of facilities, I guess you know,

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Speaker 1: it does mean like you've touched on more money coming

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Speaker 1: into the territory and at this point, you know we

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Speaker 1: do need some investment.

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Speaker 3: Look, you know, it's sort of stretching off that point.

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Speaker 3: Though I've been running a Northern Australian Policy Center for

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Speaker 3: about four and a half years. There's a real buy

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Speaker 3: again around Northern Australian policy. It extends beyond just the military,

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Speaker 3: and I think the discussions are really positive.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: You know, you can be cynical, so you know, you know,

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Speaker 3: part academic, part practitioner. You can say, well, look in

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Speaker 3: one hundred years in Federation. You know, it seems people

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Speaker 3: in the South every ten or twenty years discover the North,

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Speaker 3: make a whole heave of bold statements and then you

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Speaker 3: know there's a failure to deliver on policy. See. But

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Speaker 3: there's certainly some very positive signs across a range of issues,

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Speaker 3: so you know, everything from rare earth and critical minerals

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Speaker 3: through too. You know, there some exciting draft projects getting

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Speaker 3: ready around you know, long foods, long shelf foods, staples.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think there's a lot of exciting news

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Speaker 3: and certainly you know the engagement on Northern Australian issues

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Speaker 3: has changed over the last four years.

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Speaker 1: Well that is good to hear and I think that

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Speaker 1: that's what we always hope for here in the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory and in Northern Australia.

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Speaker 2: Like we know we're.

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Speaker 1: Important not just when you talk about you know, the

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Speaker 1: defense side of things or geographically, but also when you

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Speaker 1: talk about food security for the rest of Australia and

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Speaker 1: and you know, our exports.

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Speaker 3: Look absolutely you know, I mean that's sort of in

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Speaker 3: the work that I do, I really try to highlight that.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're a food protein basket for the region.

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Speaker 3: You know, our mango go every where, you know, so

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Speaker 3: it is a ursioning economy. Okay, Yes, there's there's challenges

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Speaker 3: in how in a small economy, how you can maintain

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Speaker 3: that growth at a steady pace and to avoid those

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Speaker 3: you know, the economists boom and bust cycles, and you

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Speaker 3: know territorians have seen them, those boom and bus cycles,

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Speaker 3: so they understand that. So you know, there's some there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of work to be done in terms of

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Speaker 3: how do we how do we maintain that level of

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Speaker 3: growth at a at a reasonable level.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and I suppose at the moment too, you know,

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Speaker 1: with with all the different expenses, with the cost of

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Speaker 1: fuel and that kind of thing, it can be a

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Speaker 1: bit more difficult, you know, in addition to all the

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Speaker 1: usual troubles that you'd have, all the usual speed bumps

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Speaker 1: you might have, I suppose, John.

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Speaker 2: Well that's it.

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Speaker 3: But you know, look, I've wrote about this a little

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Speaker 3: while ago. So you know that in Sydney they have

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Speaker 3: the Western Conics Rode. So when they were building it,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's a big tunnel. When they were building it,

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Speaker 3: they you know, they had to build and bring heavy

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Speaker 3: machinery right through some of the worst traffic in at

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Speaker 3: and they went and built that road, but no one

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Speaker 3: turned around and said, oh, you know, it's really too

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Speaker 3: difficult to build the road, too expensive to build that

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Speaker 3: tunnel because you know, we've got to move a plant

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Speaker 3: machinery at a certain times. Similarly, you know there's a

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Speaker 3: road that's being finished in a tunnel that's going to

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Speaker 3: be finished in Adelaide, and no one sort of sits

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Speaker 3: there and goes in terms of construction, very very difficult.

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Speaker 3: So you know, in the soil et cetera, difficult to

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Speaker 3: build that tunnel, but no one says, look, it's really

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Speaker 3: really difficult to build a tunnel in South Australia. So

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Speaker 3: what we're going to do is we're going to move

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Speaker 3: it and build it in Melbourne instead. And I think

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Speaker 3: these are sorts of economic reality. So if you want

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Speaker 3: economic growth in Northern Australia, you know my argument here

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Speaker 3: is economically and socially prosperous Northern Australia is a secure Australia.

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Speaker 3: So if that's what you want, some things do cost more,

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Speaker 3: some things take longer. You know, it is hotter, you know,

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Speaker 3: those sorts of things of other realities, But you don't

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Speaker 3: turn around, look at the realities and go, well, Okay,

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Speaker 3: it's too hard, we'll do it elsewhere.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, very true, doctor point of view. Had to look

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Speaker 1: into our shiplift that we're building in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 3: Look, do you know what I was reading? You ask

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Speaker 3: him that question? Look, yes, I do. The ship lift

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Speaker 3: is an important investment in terms of developing Darlin Harbor

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Speaker 3: and Darwin Port. I will, too, so very carefully not

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Speaker 3: make comments on voluntary receivership for administration or anything else

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Speaker 3: like that, because I don't think the facts are all

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Speaker 3: very clear. Yeah, you know there is going to be that.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be a policy challenge and the Northern

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Speaker 3: Territory government going to have to go and unpicked that

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Speaker 3: policy challenge over the coming days, weeks, and no doubt months.

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Speaker 3: But if your question is is that ship lift important

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Speaker 3: to Australia, Is it important to the economy, is it

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Speaker 3: important to our geostrategic defense policy, et cetera? Absolutely well,

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Speaker 3: Doctor John Coyn.

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Speaker 1: I always enjoy our conversations. Thank you very much for

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Speaker 1: coming on the show this morning. And I hope you're

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Speaker 1: not you're not too warm while you're in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Katie, I am retreating this season in all this afternoon,

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Speaker 3: back to the cold will the South with fond memories

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Speaker 3: and happy to say goodbye the heat from the world.

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Speaker 2: So thank you very much, good to have you on

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Speaker 2: the show. Thanks for your time this morning.