1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:03,239 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: Bungelung Chalcotin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Ods. I'm Zara, 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 2: and over the next two weeks we're going to be 9 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: bringing you a bonus series featuring our favorite deep dives 10 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 2: from twenty twenty three. We've put together the best deep 11 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,279 Speaker 2: dives to listen to on the beach, road tripping when 12 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 2: you don't want to speak to the person next to you, 13 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 2: or just reflecting on the year that was. Welcome to 14 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 2: tda's summer series. 15 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 3: Okay, Zara, Today's deep dive sounds like a pretty unbelievable story. 16 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 4: It is, and it's really nice on you know, something 17 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 4: like a podcast to be able to trace a news 18 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 4: story from the big beginning to the middle to the end. 19 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 4: And so today we have our podcast producer Nina speaking 20 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 4: to Kirsty about receiving her mother's uterus. 21 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 3: Kirsty, thank you so much for joining us on the 22 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 3: daily els this morning. 23 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 5: Thanks for having me Nina. 24 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 6: If you can hear Vio live in the background, she's 25 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 6: supposed to be having a sleep, but she's decided not today. 26 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 5: I will just have to go grab her. Well. 27 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 3: Good keep me posting. The last time we spoke to 28 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 3: you was a few milestones ago, and I want to 29 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 3: talk about all of those milestones, but first I think 30 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 3: we should give people a bit of a refresh on 31 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 3: why you've gone on this journey to get a uterus 32 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 3: transplant in the first place. 33 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 5: Yeah. 34 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 6: So, after my daughter's birth in April twenty twenty one, 35 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 6: I had a life saving hissterreik to me due to 36 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 6: a postpartum hemorrhage. So I lost eleven leaders of blood 37 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 6: and they decided to remove my uterus. So I had 38 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 6: a hissterrek to me to save my life. 39 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 3: You've always had a plan to have a lot of kids, 40 00:01:58,480 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 3: haven't you. 41 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 6: Yes, My brother's got three kids, and seeing his busy, 42 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 6: loud house made me realize I wanted the same for 43 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 6: myself and my family. 44 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 3: So waking up from that emergency surgery and realizing what 45 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 3: had happened. How long was it through that period of 46 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 3: grief before you realized that there was options on the table. 47 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 6: As I remember, pretty much as soon as I woke up, 48 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 6: people were trying to reassure me, the midwives, the doctors 49 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 6: that there were options, but obviously not any options for 50 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 6: me to carry my own baby. The other options were surrogacy, adoption, fostering. 51 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 6: But yeah, I didn't hear any options that were sort 52 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 6: of sitting well with me to begin with. I assumed 53 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 6: that that was also just like a bit of post 54 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 6: traumatic stress. So yeah, I think I was about six 55 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 6: months postpartum, and that's when I really hit the research, 56 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 6: and I was just on the internet every day, every 57 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 6: time I put my daughter down, I was in every 58 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 6: Facebook group. 59 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 5: I was looking at. 60 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 6: You know, why can't we do a uterus transplant, Like 61 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 6: that's what I need to have a baby. Why can't 62 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 6: I have another uterus? So that's when I found the 63 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 6: clinical trial. 64 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 3: You say it like it's a logical thing, but science 65 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 3: has never done this in this country, And yet you 66 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 3: were you knew, you knew it was going to happen 67 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 3: for you. 68 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 6: I just thought to myself, if we can do heart transplants, 69 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 6: lung liver. Surely we can do a uterus transplant, Like, 70 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 6: surely that's our next step of you know, science and technology. 71 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 5: So yeah, I was actually. 72 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 6: Shocked when I started doing the research and I was like, oh, 73 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 6: we're not doing that here. And then I was like, oh, 74 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 6: we're doing it overseas. Then yeah, I guess I was 75 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 6: just fortunate enough to stumble along the clinical trial. 76 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 3: So the last time we spoke to you in September, 77 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,119 Speaker 3: you were aware of this trial. You're a hopeful candidate, 78 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 3: but nothing was really sat in stone yet. What happened 79 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 3: after that. 80 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 6: We did some bloods and found out that Mum and 81 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 6: I were a tissue match, and that was a big milestone. 82 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 6: And then it was the week before Christmas and both 83 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 6: doctor Jana Pittman and doctor Rebecca Dean's had decided this 84 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 6: is going to be now or never. That's when Mum 85 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 6: and I sort of really made the decision like yes, 86 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 6: we're going ahead with this. And the trial was still 87 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 6: getting its final approval for doctor mattx Branstrom to operate 88 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 6: in Australia, to bring his team with him, to bring 89 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 6: his instruments with him. 90 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 3: So he's the person who's kind of pioneered this overseas 91 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 3: and now this Australian team's bringing him over to help 92 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 3: them correct do their first attempt here. 93 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 5: Correct. Yeah, it was incredible. 94 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,799 Speaker 6: I think it was sort of between Christmas and years 95 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 6: We've got the heads up and said, yes, this is 96 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 6: going to happen. Your surgery date is the tenth of January. 97 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 6: I hadn't even spoken to my work about it possibly 98 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 6: being January. Yeah, it was a lot. 99 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 3: How did the surgery go. 100 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 6: The surgery went incredibly well. Mum lost barely any blood. 101 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 6: Her surgery was incredibly long. Mine was about half hers. 102 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 6: So I think mum surgery was between ten and twelve 103 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 6: hours and mine was between four and six. But yet 104 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 6: it all went really well. I was in hospital for 105 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 6: seven days and my mum was in hospital for about 106 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 6: twelve days if I remember correctly. 107 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 5: She was out for a couple of days. 108 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 6: And then got urinary sexis and ended up back in 109 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 6: hospital to be treated for the infection. But touch wood, 110 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 6: since that little hiccup, she's been doing incredibly well. 111 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 3: One of the things that really struck me when I 112 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 3: was first researching this process is how much more invasive 113 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 3: the process is for the donor than the recipient. And 114 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 3: I can just imagine how emotionally loaded it must be 115 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 3: to ask your mom to go through that. What was 116 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 3: that conversation like for the two of you. 117 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 6: I was very naive about how invasive mum surgery would be. 118 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 6: It's definitely pros and cons of going through this surgery 119 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 6: with my mum because we've been able to hold each 120 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 6: other's hands and look after each other. 121 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 5: But there was definitely some. 122 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 6: Dark days where I felt terrible for dragging my mom 123 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 6: along on this journey with me. I was definitely a 124 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 6: little bit naive going into this, but we've spoken about 125 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 6: it a few times and I said, knowing what you 126 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 6: know now, would you still be happy to have gone 127 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 6: through this surgery? 128 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 5: And she said, yeah, definitely. 129 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 6: I think it's also been made sweet by where we 130 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 6: are now. 131 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 3: Yes, let's talk about the happy pot. Tell me where 132 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 3: we are now. 133 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 5: I am very early pregnant. I am seven weeks. Sorry. 134 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 5: That is Violet in the background again. 135 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 6: Singing sorry, It makes perfect sense. She sounds like a magpie, 136 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 6: but she's a two year old. Yes, so I'm very 137 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 6: early pregnant, feeling quite well, but yeah, I'm just incredibly 138 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 6: excited feeling super super positive about this, just trying. 139 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 5: To take it week by week. 140 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 6: But doctor Rebecca Dean's and doctor Janna Pittman are really 141 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 6: happy so far with how I'm going, and yeah, I 142 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,119 Speaker 6: guess we just see how this all goes. 143 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 3: Let's talk about what that means. Though you are pregnant, 144 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: but you're carrying a baby. 145 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 6: In the same womb that I grew in and my brother. 146 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 3: That's wild. 147 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 5: Yes, it is very wild. 148 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 6: People have asked, you know, how does it feel to 149 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 6: have your mum's uterus, your mum's organ inside you? And 150 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 6: it feels natural, it feels normal. I felt like I 151 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 6: was missing a part of myself when I lost my uterus. 152 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,119 Speaker 6: Now I feel whole again. 153 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 3: This whole process, every part of it, has more risks 154 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: than your standard pregnancy m hm. But what I feel, 155 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 3: and tell me if I'm wrong, But the way I've 156 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 3: always felt is that you're not just doing this because 157 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 3: you want another baby. There's a really strong sense of 158 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 3: advocacy and awareness and you're kind of on this mission 159 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 3: to make this available for people. 160 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 5: One hundred percent. 161 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 6: After the surgery, I kept saying to Mum, if this 162 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 6: doesn't work, it's okay. 163 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 5: We've both done our best. 164 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 6: The team has looked after us, so well, yeah, I'm 165 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 6: just feeling so grateful. People keep trying to tell me 166 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 6: that this is a miracle. This is not a miracle. 167 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 6: This is science. People have been researching and studying and 168 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 6: putting hours and hours and hours into the ethics and 169 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 6: everything that goes that's behind the clinical trial. So I 170 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 6: like to remind people that, yes, we can believe in miracles, 171 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 6: but this is science. I'm just incredibly excited for what 172 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 6: this might mean for other women because fertility research has 173 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 6: come such a long way over the last you know, 174 00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 6: twenty years. 175 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 5: This is just the name step. 176 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 6: This won't be a clinical option for everyone, but this 177 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 6: is there for the women that do want to carry 178 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 6: a baby, women that are born without uteruses with MRKH, 179 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 6: women that have had to have their reproductive organs removed 180 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 6: because of cancer treatment, women like myself that have had hysterectomies. So, 181 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 6: like I said, it doesn't make me any more of 182 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 6: a mother, but this is going to hopefully be a 183 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 6: treatment option for women that would like it to be 184 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 6: a treatment option. Just another array of options that we have. 185 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 6: You know, I can't imagine what violence options will be 186 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 6: if she needs those when she's my age in thirty 187 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 6: years time. 188 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 3: Cassie, thank you so much for coming on and giving 189 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 3: us this update. We're all so excited for you and 190 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 3: just hope that everything goes as well and smoothly as possible. 191 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 6: Thank you for having me in. I love chatting with you, 192 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 6: lots of great questions. Hopefully we can do an update 193 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,359 Speaker 6: once the baby's born around Christmas. 194 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 3: I really really would love that. I will leave you 195 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 3: to Violet's good care. 196 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 5: Thanks Nina. 197 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us on the Daily OS this week. 198 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 3: If you learn something in today's episode, flicker around to 199 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 3: the group chat. It will really help us here at TDA. 200 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 5: We'll be back again on Tuesday. 201 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 2: Until then, have a great day.