WEBVTT - 'Finfluencers' At War 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:03.519 This is Outspoken. The podcast is not afraid to say 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:07.000 exactly what you're thinking. Our names are Amy Kate and 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:10.880 Sophie Torba. We're identical triplets, but we often don't have 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:16.040 identical opinions, so sometimes things can get heated. Outspoken covers 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:20.960 all things reality TV, influencers, entertainment and issues facing women. 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:24.079 That is so fetch Thank you. 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:30.440 Welcome back to another episode of Outspoken. It's a very 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.960 happy Monday here as it's a public holiday in South Australia. 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:36.120 I'm sorry for those states that are missing out. We're 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.440 obviously pre recording this episode because when you're listening to this, 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:42.559 Sophie will be on holiday in Marion Bay with their 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:43.159 in laws. 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:43.879 That's right. 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.800 We're spending a week there, which I mean I'm feeling 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:49.400 a bit a bit funny about because i haven't had 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:51.040 a week off in so long. 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:51.599 Yeah. 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:54.480 I will be bringing my laptop with me, Amy mind you, Yeah, 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:56.320 I know, because I'm going to be holding down the 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:57.840 fort Hula Media by myself. 0:00:57.880 --> 0:00:59.640 Does that mean gone? Does that mean it's just going 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:00.920 to be your me doing the podcast. 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:03.960 I'm going to bring a microphone with me, so I 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.120 mean it gives me something to do because apparently there 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:08.840 is a sweet fa to do with Marion Bay. I 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.240 was going to say, because I mean, I've lived in 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:13.920 South Australia my whole life except the year in Melbourne, 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.760 and I've never even heard of Marion Bay or anything 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:18.479 to do with. 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:20.880 What you do there. It's nearly your peninsula. 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.800 Apparently there's a big beautiful national park there. Apparently Brandon 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:26.720 is going to teach me how to use my camera 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.280 that you got me for Christmas. So we're also going 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:30.559 to have a Christmas in. 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:33.679 June night so that should be fun. Wow. Okay, well 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:35.319 what are you going to do without me? Amy? 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.800 And Oh I'm just going to get shit. I'm just 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:40.760 going to get a lot of work done. I'm actually 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:42.840 kind of looking forward to it a little bit because 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.800 oh thanks, Well, no, like I'll miss you. Maybe we 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.160 can have some quality time to maybe just think you 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:52.880 guys need it. Yeah, well, Amy, you have a colleague 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.840 that's gone viral on tiktop. Yeah so a former colleague. 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:01.240 So it's not Sophie. No, no, it's quite hilarious. One 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.200 of my friends messaged me a TikTok video and it's 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:08.400 over Channel seven reporter doing a report down in the snow, 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:10.040 so he was doing a bit of a weather report. 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:12.240 And it's so humorous. 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.120 Because I met him when I was on my cadet 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:17.920 ship and he didn't get the cadet ship. He actually 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.480 got beaten out, but he did producing work at seven 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:22.920 And I was really surprised by this because he is 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:25.480 a nice looking guy. I do remember that there will 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.760 quite chatter about him because you know, he was pretty 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.960 good looking. Yeah, so he does post some modeling type 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:33.359 photos on his Instagram. 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.560 And the interesting thing is he is such a hard worker. 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.000 He's been slogging his guts out working at Sunrise, doing 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:40.920 all this stuff and trying to get his foot in 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:43.720 the door for a full time reporting job. And what's 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.800 happened is a young girl has been watching the news 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:50.919 randomly and she's discovered him reporting on the weather and 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.919 she has gone to her TikTok and posted a video 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.120 of him zooming up with this dreamy music and said 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.200 everyone needs to start watching the news. 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.280 This clip has been viewed nearly half a million times. 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.280 I can just imagine this happening with us back in 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:06.240 the day, because Dad used to watch the news like 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:09.720 literally NonStop. It would be ten news than seven today tonight. 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:11.960 I could imagine seeing some hot person on there and 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:15.280 you're enjoying the eye canny back in the day. 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:16.200 Maybe I shouldn't say. 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:18.720 It's oh, Matt dor Matt Doran. He was a reason 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:20.800 to watch the news as well. If TikTok was around 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:23.000 then I feel like he would have featured heavily on there. 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:25.880 I do remember we were so disappointed because we all 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.200 started working at Channel ten rolling the auto Q and 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:31.200 doing a bit of the weather script and I think 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:33.600 he was either there for like five minutes whilst we 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:35.480 were there and then left to Melbourne. I remember we 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.720 were all devastated. Well, this guy, he has been featured 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:42.400 on the Daily Mail. His Instagram following last time I looked, 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:45.760 it's gone up by about seven thousand, and I've heard 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.040 that he might be now getting a full time job 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:48.560 because of this. 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.040 Is that not the power of TikTok? 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:53.040 Though? This guy's been slogging his guts out for like 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.840 six years in the background and now he's featured once 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:57.480 on TikTok and that's it. 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:58.520 Good on him? I know. 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:00.960 I'm actually really happy for looking at it from the 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:04.600 other perspective. Can you imagine if some guy started like 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.320 sort of perving on some weather presenter and it just 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:08.280 went off and then they got it. 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:11.160 Oh, why do you think some weather presenters. I was 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:12.520 just thinking about Beg Judd. 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:15.760 No, not Beg Judd, but like there is somebody she 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:18.840 she she got exposure from wearing her red dress. So 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.440 I suppose it's kind of a similar situation where she's 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:25.120 been spotted by looking gorgeous. So the television industry is 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:28.360 usually run by old men who usually pick out young 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.240 women that they have the hotspot or that are attractive. 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:33.479 To be honest, I'm calling it. I think I should 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.880 become a news director because I spotted this guy's potential 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:37.920 five years ago. 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:39.240 I said he would make a. 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.000 Great reporter on the news. I was shocked he didn't 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.520 get the Sydney gig, and here he is now starring 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:45.080 all across the Daily Mail. 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:47.279 Regina George is flawless. 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.040 She has too Fendi press and it's not as. 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:51.720 I hear her hare's insured for ten thousand dollars. 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.360 A new breed of influencer is dominating the social media world. 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:59.599 Finance influencers, known as influencers, are becoming a hot commodity 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:03.400 for fine financial brands wanting exposure. However, concerns have been 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.960 raised over the unlicensed advice being provided by unqualified influencers. 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:12.200 This week, a row between license and unlicensed Australian finance 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:17.480 influences reached fever pitch when two upcoming unlicensed influencers accuse 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:21.200 financial advisor Victoria Divine of a lack of disclosure that 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.200 She's on the Money. Founder was criticized on Instagram and 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.320 then in The Australian Financial Review for a partnership with 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:31.600 investing app six Park despite not breaking any rules Sophie. 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.279 For those who don't know who is Victoria Divine well, 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.919 Victoria is a licensed financial advisor and also director of 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:39.640 Melbourne finance firm Zella. 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:40.800 She is also the. 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.320 Very popular host of Australia's number one money podcast, She's 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.000 on the Money. So the podcast is really aimed at 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:50.680 helping millennial women find financial freedom and she is very 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.360 passionate about helping women take control of their own finances 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:55.960 and makes smart money. 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:56.880 Decisions for the future. 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.480 She's on the Money has hit one point one million 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.719 monthly life listeners and she has a large Facebook community 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.400 of over one hundred and seventy thousand members. Victoria was 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:10.120 also named in Forbes thirty Under thirty list of young entrepreneurs, 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.120 so her career has absolutely taken off. She is an 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.960 incredibly hard worker and someone I have to say that 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.520 I do really admire in the industry. Yeah, and just 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.520 to be transparent, we do know Victoria. We've never actually 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:23.440 had the pleasure of meeting her in person, but just 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:26.000 being in the podcast space, we have come across each 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:28.400 other online and she has been on our podcast before, 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:31.720 so we just wanted to disclose we do know her. Yeah, 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:33.880 exactly right. So I suppose this sparked a little bit 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.479 of interest when Victoria's name came up, because I was 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:39.719 really excited when I saw on the twenty fourth of 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.280 May that she had announced she was partnering with six 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:45.320 Parts to launch as she's on the Money investing platform. 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.080 So this has been in the works for quite some time. 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.960 So the collaboration is aimed at providing an affordable solution 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:56.200 for people looking to invest beyond a microinvesting platform. So 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:59.919 from the get go, Victoria has been very transparent to 0:06:59.880 --> 0:07:02.560 say that she's on the money Investing platform is a 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:05.640 white label version of six Parks app, So for those 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:08.919 who don't know what the term white labeling is it 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:12.640 is essentially when a company rebrands another product or service 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:15.280 produced by one company to make it appear as if 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:19.600 they have made it. So, Victoria actually released a podcast 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.440 explaining all the ins and outs of this app. It 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.000 was explained on her Instagram post that this is how 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.040 the app was working and she was collaborating with six Park, 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.720 And I think what is very clear about the app 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.800 is although it is a white label platform, she has 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.720 clearly made the platform her own. So basically, this app 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.440 has been created to ensure that women are still empowered 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.400 to make financial decisions. So the language is very similar 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:47.600 to the language used in the She's on the Money community. 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:51.520 The branding is also directed at women and targeted at women. 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.520 And also Victoria is part of the process, so she 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.120 is actually very hands on with the people who sign 0:07:57.160 --> 0:07:58.920 up to this platform. Yeah, and I think that's what's 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.400 so appealing about this app to the She's on the 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.400 Money community is the fact that Victoria is overseeing her 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:05.440 client's portfolio. 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:07.239 So that really is the difference. 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.680 So if you do go through six Park, you have 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:12.760 their team overseeing the portfolio. However, if you go on 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.000 She's on the Money, she is the one looking. 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:15.720 Over the portfolio. 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.640 So it is a way of getting access to Victoria 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.400 Divine without actually having to become her client and pay 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.440 her this exorbitant amount for that have her financial. 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:25.120 Advice exactly right. 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:27.160 And I suppose the way that she manages to do 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.600 this is that that six Park is actually an investment 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:34.840 platform referred to as a robo advisor. So basically what 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.920 this means is it's a type of financial advisor that 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:42.200 provides financial advice or investment management online with moderate to 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:46.960 minimal human intervention. So basically, they provide digital financial advice 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:49.360 based on mathematical rules or algorithms. 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.000 So how Victoria. 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.000 Explained it on her podcast was that you put in 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:57.120 some information about your financial situation and they sort of 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.120 come up with a risk portfolio for you based on 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:00.000 a lot of algorithms. 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:01.000 However, once it's. 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.600 All set up in the system, the financial advisors like 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:06.360 Victoria do look over the portfolio to make sure it's 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:07.120 running properly. 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:07.480 Well. 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.319 A lot of people have actually been comparing Victoria's app 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.559 to Raise, and it is a completely different type of app. 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:17.080 So Raise is a micro investing app, and this app 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:19.920 that Victoria has created with six Park is the next 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.440 step up. So and that's what a lot of people 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:24.760 don't seem to understand, because you actually have to have 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:28.000 five thousand dollars you want to invest, so it's not 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:30.440 like with rays where you just chuck a couple of 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:33.480 dollars from your purchase, Like this is the next step up. 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:34.520 So on the day. 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.480 Victoria launched She's on the Money app and her collaboration 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:40.480 with six Park, the Australian Financial Review actually did a 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:41.760 really great article on it. 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:42.760 Now this has. 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.520 Spurred on micro influencer Maddie Walton to post on Instagram 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:50.320 a little bit of a review into Australian investing platforms. Well, 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.120 Maddi goes by the Instagram handle Money with Maddie and 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.880 she is a twenty three year old retail worker from 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:00.760 the Gold Coast. Now she has no qualifications in in finance, 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.800 she is not licensed at all, but she gives her 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:07.560 advice on this platform. So Maddie shared a carousel of 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.960 infographics where she outlined the features of the main Australian 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:14.280 investment platforms and of course she reviewed that she is 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:18.040 on the Money new six part investment platform. So on 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:22.520 the graphic Maddie made several claims which Victoria has refuted. 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.439 So Maddi claimed that the app is not Chess sponsored, 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.480 meaning that the ASX can't keep a list of who 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:32.880 owns what shares. She also falsely accused Victoria of receiving 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:34.400 referrals from people who. 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:35.440 Sign up to the app. 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.720 The post further claim that uses are locked into further 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:43.079 advice and become a pain client of Victoria's financial advisory Zella. 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.360 Maddie also made a further claim that six part don't 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.839 have a competitive rate for the robot advice space. Now 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:53.320 Victoria has responded to Mattie's post. She wrote, I do 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:56.400 not get referrals from anyone that signs up. That is 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.280 factually incorrect. The fee is the same if you go 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.160 through She's on the Money directly or with six Park. 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:03.640 Further to this, I have. 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.760 Never and will never accept referral payments for any of 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:10.559 our podcast sponsors or show partners. We strictly only charge 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.040 an advertising fee, so we are never seen to be 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:17.079 financially motivated to get people to sign up with particular platforms. 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.160 We have refused many referral opportunities as they are not 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.520 in line with the best interests of our community. Victoria 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.480 also further hit back at Maddie's claim saying her financial 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:30.440 advisory business seller is not involved in six Park. Victoria 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:32.679 also went on to say that the platform is in 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.679 fact Chess sponsored, so it is clear to me that 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:39.920 a lot of these claims made by Maddie are very unsubstantiated. Well, 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.480 and also if Mattie's claims come off the back of 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:47.080 Victoria's Australian Financial Review article, so the Australian Financial Review 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:51.960 accidentally printed that Victoria was receiving a referral fee, which 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.240 they have now gone and corrected that she is not 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:55.120 receiving one. 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.520 And what's really interesting is it is actually not. 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:01.160 Illegal for financial advisors at the moment to receive a 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:04.160 referral fee. However, it's one of those things that's frowned upon. 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:06.640 There's a bit of a gray area. But Victoria has 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.079 said time and time again that she doesn't believe in 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:13.120 accepting referral fees at all. I suppose the confusion is 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:16.200 around the fact that referral payments are expected to be 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:20.240 a band form of renumeration for licensed financial advisors under 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:22.360 the government's contentious. 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:22.440 Code of Ethics. 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:25.520 However, this still has not been passed, so even if 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:29.560 Victoria was taking referral payments, it's actually not illegal. 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:30.400 Well, the thing that. 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.040 I find really interesting is a lot of these influencers 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:35.280 who have been having a go at Victoria and her 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:39.040 app actually accept referral fees. So one of those is 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.440 Tash Invests, and she's been very vocal on her Instagram 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.720 and also her TikTok about Victoria and the six Park app. 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:49.040 And she has actually one finfluencer that is quite open 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:52.200 about the fact that she does receive referral fees. So 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.480 if you look on her link tree, there are at 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.920 least four companies that she has referral fees for. What's 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:01.360 interesting is Tash Invests hit out Victoria and said that 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.400 she's on the money also has referral fees, and this 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.480 is actually true, but the difference is that when she's 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.520 on the money has a referral fee. For example, for Upbank, 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:15.360 they actually give their listeners ten dollars, whereas Tash Invests 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.440 gives them five dollars. So I suppose what they do 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:20.959 is that she's on the money, they could be getting 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:23.160 that five dollars. However, they give it back to their 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:25.840 listener because they don't ethically believe in taking. 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:27.760 That refera exactly right now. 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.240 What is crazy that this shit storm has happened on 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:34.160 social media and gone back and forth and the Australian 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.200 Financial Review has decided to jump in and create an 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:42.160 article pitching these influences against each other and slamming Victoria. 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:46.120 It's particularly interesting that the Australian Financial Review took this 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:50.360 approach because the whole argument was based on misinformation that 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.719 they printed, which Victoria asked them to correct. Yeah. Well, 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:56.880 from a journalistic perspective, it is a really odd move 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.000 from the Australian Financial Review because the Australian Financial Review, 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.959 if you compare them to other publications like, for example, 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.000 the Daily Mail. We know the Daily Mail will run 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.439 with influencer gossip, but the Australian Financial Review is held 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:12.640 very highly between finance experts and also in the journalism world, 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.920 and it seems really odd that they have written an 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:21.320 article based off almost idle gossip from some finance influences. 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.480 And if you read the article, it's very quote heavy 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:27.760 at the start and it puts across the influencer's view 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.080 and then down the bottom it's where Victoria actually responds 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.520 and everybody knows most people don't get to the end 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.000 of an article, so it would be framed very much 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:39.280 on the side of these influencers. I found it also 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.400 really odd the fact that they Australian Financial Review wrote 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.800 this glowing article about how great this, how great Victoria's 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.840 partnership was with six part because if they're meant to 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.160 be so educated in the financial world, and that if 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.880 there was a problem with Victoria backing this app then 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:57.600 why did they do the review? So it doesn't make 0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:59.960 any sense at all. If anything, it makes them look bad. 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.720 The thing that I just can't wrap my head around 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:06.760 is the fact that there is such a better story here. 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.920 Instead of going after someone who hasn't even done anything wrong, 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:11.840 why don't they. 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:13.080 Go after the fact. 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:18.480 That there are unlicensed and unqualified people providing financial advice 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:22.320 to people that has the ability to cripple them financially. Well. 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.600 Earlier today, we spoke with Glenn James from my Millennial 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:27.960 Money because we really wanted to pick the brains of 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:31.080 an expert and someone who is in that social media space, 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:33.960 and we put a number of questions to him about 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.280 financial advisors and the laws surrounding what they can actually 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.520 talk about and also this incident at hand. Let's go 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:45.400 to our interview with Glenn. Firstly, Glenn, what is considered 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:46.480 financial advice? 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.480 Well, I'm glad you asked, because I think it's important 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:55.680 to just understand the framework of what financial advice is 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.960 and what it isn't. And I'm actually reading the Corporation's Act, 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:04.880 section seven sixty six B, and it says financial product 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:10.680 advice means a recommendation or a statement of opinion or 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:14.200 a report of either of those things. That and this 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:18.600 is the absolute kicker, is intended to influence a person 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:22.240 or persons in making a decision in relation to a 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:27.640 particular financial product or class, or financial products, or an 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.160 interest in a particular financial product or class. Then it 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:36.760 says point B it could reasonably be regarded as intended 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.600 to have such an influence. So if we back it up, 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:44.640 if I if I open an Instagram account today and 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:48.400 it says Glenn will get invested with Glenn, because I 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:50.280 just started a TikTok account for fun, and it's called 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:57.000 get get invested with Glenn. The minute I say, hey, guys, 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.320 if you want to set up a banking structure, should 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.640 use four bank accounts and if you want to find 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:07.600 a super fund, you should look at these three fees. 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.840 I've walked over the line of a class because I've 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.000 talked about superannuation of a class and I've also talked 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:20.680 about banking. So it's a very very easy line to cross. 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.440 And then the question is I've crossed the line. So 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:29.080 I'm automatically in advice territory because I've mentioned the class 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.040 of product. The question is do I need to be 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:36.520 licensed for that advice? So the Corporations Act is not 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.840 digging around excuse my French or whatever when they're talking 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.200 about financial advice and financial product advice. 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:46.840 So does that make it really hard in this world 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:50.000 we live in where we've got a lot of financial podcasts, 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:53.399 we've got influencers who are spooking financial advice. Is it 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.359 really hard when we get into the category of sponsorship, 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.040 because obviously you deal with that a lot. Is it 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.239 hard to know what you're allowed to promote and what 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:03.920 you can't promote and what you can't say. 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:08.880 Yeah, so I think it is hard if you are 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.119 a licensed financial advisor, and we can get to that, 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:16.879 But just back to this whole You know, I'm a dude, 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:22.200 I work I make coffee during the day and I've 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:24.960 got a TikTok or an Instagram account in the night, 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:26.920 and I talk about money and it's you know, get 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:29.880 invested with Glenn and all that stuff. The question isn't 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:34.919 did Glenn give advice? That's not the question because all 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.439 day long, I've opened my trap and I've said super, 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.640 I've opened my trap and said bank accounts. I've opened 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.959 my trap and said investing in shares. So I'm in 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:49.920 the territory of that financial product advice. The question now becomes, well, 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.919 do I need to be licensed? Because there's no different 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.280 than you know, we might go and get coffee tomorrow 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:01.760 and I say, oh, Sophie, name me, so go and 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.160 set up a spaceship or raise account. It'll be good. 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.480 Like that's financial advice all day long, by the definition 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:11.800 of the Corpse Act. And I don't want to try 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:14.000 and confuse things here, but the question is do you 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:17.560 need to be licensed? Now, both of you when you 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:21.600 just give financial advice like that, you don't need to 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:26.280 have a general advice license because the corpse that goes 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:33.200 on to say that because your main business isn't basically 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:36.760 financial advice and dealing with financial products and all that stuff. 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:39.680 So all day long at a barbecue, you can give 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:43.919 financial advice because it's not your thing and it's just 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.440 your opinion, you don't need to be licensed. And if 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:50.800 someone goes and buys a block of gold or a 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.720 snuggie or something off TV because you said so and 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.880 it sucks, well, that's just on them. It goes back 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:01.040 to what's the core reason. Now, if I had a 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.879 get invested with Glenn TikTok, which I do, and I 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.720 make money from that, and I'm over the line of 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.480 talking about financial products and a class of products and 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:16.600 whatnot all day long, I think it's clear that in 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:21.199 that instance of being that financial influence or of influencer 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:26.879 all day long, I think it's pretty clear that you 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:33.159 might need to be licensed. Now, full disclosure, my Millennial Money, 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:35.679 my podcast and all the stuff we do online, all 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:39.400 my blogs, I actually pay for a general advice license. 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.760 So, Glenn, because you are a retired financial advisor, can 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.440 you talk us through what guidelines you have to adbide 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.320 by when you're giving financial advice and also when you 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:50.520 take sponsors on board for your podcast. 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:56.080 Yeah, So when I started my podcast, I was actually 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.479 a financial advisor. I had my bricks and mortar financial 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:04.760 planning business, and you know, ordinarily, if I'm just doing 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:09.080 my thing, and you know, I'm a financial advisor and 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:12.760 someone comes into my office and they want financial advice, well, 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:15.920 we sit down and I get their goals, I get 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:22.160 their needs. I really understand their personal circumstances. Then I 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:25.199 put together a recommendation which is in the form of 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:29.359 a statement of advice, which is formal financial advice, and 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:33.840 that actually says, high, clients, you've told me you wanted 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:38.720 these goals met, Well, I believe these products will help 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:42.879 you achieve those goals, whether it's cash flow and banking structures, 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:47.919 whether it's getting out of debt, whether it's superannuation or insurance, 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.760 and I give them formal financial advice. It's a document. 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:57.639 It's pretty big document because you know, I have to 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:01.040 hang my hat on that advice, and it's compliant the law. 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:05.639 So it's really good because the clients have paid to 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:10.480 get advice based on their own personal situation. Now there 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:16.840 are strict rules involved if you are a licensed financial advisor. 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:20.600 So for example, in the eighties and nineties, if you're 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:25.640 a financial advisor, you could you might you know, put 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:27.720 a whole he bit of investments over in that company 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:31.440 over there, and they would say, oh, Glenn, you've done 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:35.720 really well. Let's take you over to Hawaii on a 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:37.560 junket and we'll pay for it all. So there would 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:41.320 be more incentive for the advisor to maybe use that 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:45.119 product because they're getting the trip to Hawaii. So fast forward. 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:47.200 Now all that's been cleaned up out of the industry, 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:50.480 like you actually can't do it, and I'd just like 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:52.399 to have a jab there that I know. There are 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:55.440 still people in the medical profession who get flown around 0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:58.480 the world on jackets from drug companies, but we won't 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:03.359 go there right now. So it has cleaned up a lot, 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:07.880 and there is now a code of ethics that advisor 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:11.719 has to go by. So, for example, if you are 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:15.919 a licensed financial advisor and you had a podcast, well 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:22.159 you really couldn't take money to sign people up to 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:25.080 an investment because it's just against the law. 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:27.080 So how does that do for them? 0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:32.040 Because we're seeing so many finance influencers dubbed fin influencers, 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:35.600 how are the rules different for them? 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:40.920 Well, they're not licensed, so it's the wild West. And 0:23:41.560 --> 0:23:47.440 particularly with the podcasting and Instagram world. So for example, 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:52.240 on our podcast, I could pretty much say, hey everyone, 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:56.880 it's Glennye, welcome to my millennial money. I want everyone 0:23:56.880 --> 0:24:01.280 to go and buy you this over here. Even if 0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:03.880 you know, everyone go buy Nike shoes. It's all good. 0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:06.359 Just they're the best shoes ever. I could be getting 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:08.720 a million dollars out the back door from Nike, and 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:12.639 it's legal because it's the wild West where it's different 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:15.720 than radio. You can't do that on radio. So I 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:21.440 think what we're finding is that, you know, twenty first 0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:27.000 century tech and online stuff, you know, the old laws 0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:29.440 haven't caught up with it yet. And I'm really predicting 0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:32.760 that in the future there will be laws in place 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:36.320 for podcasters, there will be laws in place for influencers, 0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:40.320 because it is actually the wild West. And I'm very 0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:43.480 sure when I do a podcast, if there is a 0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:46.879 paid thing, we will disclose it in the show notes 0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:49.879 and it will be apparent that isn't it isn't ad 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:52.040 like I'm still going to slip in oh and I 0:24:52.119 --> 0:24:55.960 wear night shoes like. So, I think there has to 0:24:56.000 --> 0:25:00.240 be a level of integrity for the individual influencer when 0:25:00.240 --> 0:25:02.520 they are dealing with this stuff because it is the 0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:05.360 wild West and there's actually no rules. 0:25:05.720 --> 0:25:09.159 So does that mean say I started another podcast and 0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:12.760 I started talking about investments and crypto with all types 0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:14.960 of topics related to finance, Does that mean I could 0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:18.719 just go on and spook super annuation companies and anything. 0:25:18.760 --> 0:25:20.760 Because I absolutely, yeah. 0:25:20.760 --> 0:25:25.119 Totally, you can do that tomorrow. You're a qualified for influencer. 0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:29.359 And to me, it goes back to the wording in 0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:35.040 the Corporations Act that says that it's a statement of 0:25:35.240 --> 0:25:41.600 opinion that could influence someone. So by definition, if you 0:25:41.640 --> 0:25:45.480 went out and created that podcast and you were like, 0:25:45.520 --> 0:25:49.800 all right, everyone use this super company over here, or 0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:51.959 if you created an Instagram account and say I use 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:56.240 this super account because it's the cheapest, you're giving an 0:25:56.240 --> 0:26:00.760 opinion about a financial product the corporation and Zach says 0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:05.280 that that's financial product advice. So I think it's a 0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:09.159 very gray area. And that's why for me personally, I 0:26:09.320 --> 0:26:12.640 pay close to forty thousand dollars a year to have 0:26:13.359 --> 0:26:17.480 a license, a general advice license. Are we giving general 0:26:17.520 --> 0:26:21.800 advice all day long? The Corpse Act says we're giving advice. 0:26:22.840 --> 0:26:26.480 The question is do you need to be licensed? It's gray? 0:26:26.640 --> 0:26:31.000 It hasn't been tested in court, and I believe I 0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:34.720 would rather not work in the gray and just be 0:26:34.840 --> 0:26:36.680 above reproach in that area. 0:26:36.960 --> 0:26:39.800 I just think it's so confusing though, for the listener 0:26:39.880 --> 0:26:42.320 or consumer of this information, because it just seems so 0:26:42.440 --> 0:26:46.440 odd to me that someone who has qualifications in finance 0:26:46.840 --> 0:26:48.840 they are bound by all of these rules that they 0:26:48.840 --> 0:26:52.680 have to abide by. Yet someone who then calls themselves 0:26:52.760 --> 0:26:57.280 a finfluencer and has no qualifications, no background experience in it, 0:26:57.560 --> 0:26:59.479 they can just do whatever they like. I think that 0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:02.080 their needs to be some sort of boundaries in place 0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:03.800 for them as well. Do you think it is a 0:27:03.880 --> 0:27:06.280 little bit unfair that they are able to play by 0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:07.040 their own rules. 0:27:07.720 --> 0:27:13.080 Yes, and I would actually, I guess for the benefit 0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:17.560 of the consumer I think, and the regulator. You know, 0:27:18.240 --> 0:27:21.600 if you have any influencer listeners or whatever that listen 0:27:21.600 --> 0:27:25.720 to your podcast, I would actually be very very cautious 0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:29.119 because ask have said they're like looking into this unlicensed 0:27:29.160 --> 0:27:33.960 financial advice stuff. And by definition, if you're calling yourself 0:27:33.960 --> 0:27:39.359 a finfluencer, you are influencing people about money and finance 0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:45.439 and that often includes products. And I honestly think my 0:27:45.960 --> 0:27:47.440 you know, and I've thought about this for a whole 0:27:47.440 --> 0:27:51.800 ten minutes, but I'm kind of thinking maybe there should 0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:57.440 be some type of regulation that if you've got influence 0:27:57.680 --> 0:28:01.199 over say five thousand people or ten whatever the threshold is, 0:28:01.760 --> 0:28:05.040 or you generate an income of over this amount and 0:28:05.080 --> 0:28:07.560 you are talking about money, you need to be licensed. 0:28:08.080 --> 0:28:11.160 What is so crazy is that finance brands and banks 0:28:11.480 --> 0:28:13.960 they're going to opt to go with someone who doesn't 0:28:14.080 --> 0:28:17.320 who isn't restricted by guidelines. So this is just pumping 0:28:17.400 --> 0:28:21.480 up these unqualified influencers more, filling their pockets with more money. 0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:24.920 And that it's even more harmful because it's really confusing 0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:28.440 for consumers to know who is qualified and who isn't 0:28:28.480 --> 0:28:30.840 qualified and who they should be taking advice for. 0:28:30.960 --> 0:28:32.480 Do you think it is quite. 0:28:32.240 --> 0:28:36.600 Concerning that these consumers are unknowingly receiving unlicensed information? 0:28:37.840 --> 0:28:42.520 Oh? Absolutely? And I mean I follow a few influencers 0:28:42.600 --> 0:28:45.960 on Instagram because you know, I'm out there, I've got 0:28:45.960 --> 0:28:47.920 a money podcast. I want to keep my finger on 0:28:47.960 --> 0:28:49.640 the pulse what all the cool people are doing and 0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:54.120 all that stuff. And I say that jokingly because I'm old, right, 0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:58.840 I'm not twenty three with a banging Instagram account or 0:28:58.840 --> 0:29:03.280 TikTok follows or anything like that. But I think it's 0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:06.000 I like to keep my finger the poles. I don't 0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:09.080 know where I was going with this, but I think 0:29:09.160 --> 0:29:13.000 it's actually the same as like if we forget the 0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:16.280 word of influencers and we actually go and talk about 0:29:16.680 --> 0:29:21.840 health and wellness and what about ice. You know, Glenn 0:29:21.920 --> 0:29:27.040 James starts an investment, Sorry, Glenn James starts an instagram 0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:30.280 like health with Glenn, you know, follow me for all 0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:33.520 your health tips, And I could get really big and 0:29:33.560 --> 0:29:35.880 I could be actually saying the biggest load of crap 0:29:36.360 --> 0:29:40.840 and people are actually taking i don't know, lemon scented 0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:45.280 water drinks or something weird to cure cancer. Because I said, 0:29:45.280 --> 0:29:47.760 it works like it's actually no different to the health 0:29:47.800 --> 0:29:52.880 stuff and it's equally concerning the health side of it. 0:29:53.000 --> 0:29:55.320 In my opinion, that's such a good point because I 0:29:55.320 --> 0:29:57.880 feel like people are sort of waking up to those 0:29:58.200 --> 0:30:00.400 health and wellness influences and a lot of people are 0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:03.280 now calling out their practices. But I think that a 0:30:03.320 --> 0:30:06.560 lot of consumers we just don't know. We don't know 0:30:06.640 --> 0:30:09.400 the rules regarding influencers. So it's really great to actually 0:30:09.400 --> 0:30:11.320 have you on clearing up a lot of this because 0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:12.920 I feel like a lot of our listeners will actually 0:30:13.040 --> 0:30:15.760 take something away from this. But it's also confusing because 0:30:15.800 --> 0:30:19.640 recently the government has come out and said that taking 0:30:19.680 --> 0:30:23.400 advice from an unqualified financial influencer is like getting advice 0:30:23.480 --> 0:30:26.120 from your mate down at the pub. I just think 0:30:26.160 --> 0:30:28.840 it's kind of confusing because I thought they'd be wanting 0:30:28.880 --> 0:30:31.440 to set strict guidelines in place. What do you make 0:30:31.480 --> 0:30:33.680 of the government's recent comments about it? 0:30:34.280 --> 0:30:38.520 Yeah, so I think, like anything, Jane Hume, who is 0:30:38.560 --> 0:30:42.000 the senator who looks after all the financial services stuff, 0:30:43.000 --> 0:30:47.040 I honestly think maybe she just got caught up in 0:30:47.080 --> 0:30:53.240 a throwaway line. You know. I just don't know, And 0:30:53.360 --> 0:30:57.000 all I know is one she's been on my podcast before. 0:30:57.040 --> 0:30:58.360 I'm going to get her to try and come back 0:30:58.400 --> 0:31:01.320 on my podcast and talk about this. I have feeling 0:31:01.320 --> 0:31:07.160 sull decline, but I'm still going to ask. But I 0:31:07.320 --> 0:31:09.800 just just got to look at the regulator, and we 0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:14.480 know that ACIK are looking at this stuff, and I 0:31:14.600 --> 0:31:19.880 for one am not dicking around with ACIK like as 0:31:19.920 --> 0:31:23.000 simple as that, because this stuff hasn't been tested in 0:31:23.040 --> 0:31:25.600 court and I don't want to be the first one 0:31:26.320 --> 0:31:29.480 that gets wheeled into court because a lot of the 0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:33.480 times the regulator if it's gray, right, There's been cases 0:31:33.600 --> 0:31:36.960 like in the late nineties, I forget the case off 0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:40.080 the top of my head, but there was a case 0:31:40.120 --> 0:31:42.840 that ACIK wanted to try. They didn't know the outcome 0:31:42.880 --> 0:31:46.640 of and they paid the person they were suing legal fees. 0:31:47.120 --> 0:31:49.320 So it was pretty much like, all right, here's a 0:31:49.360 --> 0:31:51.920 couple of million dollars, go get the best legal device 0:31:51.960 --> 0:31:53.440 you can get. We're going to sue you to see 0:31:53.480 --> 0:31:56.400 if this stands up in court. And because all this 0:31:56.480 --> 0:31:59.400 stuff's gray, I don't want to be the first one 0:31:59.440 --> 0:32:02.440 that's you know, heading into the court to be tested. 0:32:03.320 --> 0:32:08.040 Because if you're found guilty of being out there providing 0:32:08.160 --> 0:32:12.720 unlicensed financial advice, there can be prison time and over 0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:16.080 one hundred thousand dollars worth of fines. And this is 0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:19.520 why we just can't mess around with this stuff. And 0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:22.479 I'm not against people making a living online totally. I 0:32:22.560 --> 0:32:25.920 want everyone to have a banging Instagram, but I just 0:32:26.160 --> 0:32:30.160 am worried that it's just the wild West out there. 0:32:30.280 --> 0:32:34.400 Yeah, it is going to take one influencer to kind 0:32:34.440 --> 0:32:35.640 of be made an example of. 0:32:35.680 --> 0:32:36.840 I think in this situation. 0:32:37.000 --> 0:32:40.200 And what I find really interesting is I wonder if 0:32:40.680 --> 0:32:44.160 the brand, the finance brand that they're promoting will also 0:32:44.960 --> 0:32:45.440 be held. 0:32:45.560 --> 0:32:46.720 Won't be a great response, It. 0:32:46.720 --> 0:32:48.560 Won't be great pr for anybody involved. 0:32:48.600 --> 0:32:51.960 No, And this is why, you know, you just have 0:32:52.040 --> 0:32:55.600 to be aware of the playing field. And I just 0:32:55.840 --> 0:32:59.240 caution everybody. You go back to that young lady who 0:32:59.280 --> 0:33:00.800 was doing the health stuff, I think it was Bell 0:33:00.920 --> 0:33:04.720 or something and she was then yeah, like, it's actually 0:33:04.760 --> 0:33:07.080 no different than that, and it can be life or 0:33:07.080 --> 0:33:11.520 death consequences in terms of financial death. And sure, given 0:33:11.560 --> 0:33:14.160 a lot of these people you're influencing, like they're not 0:33:14.280 --> 0:33:17.080 high income earners, Like if you had five hundred thousand 0:33:17.080 --> 0:33:20.959 dollars to invest, I'm pretty much confident I'm not going 0:33:21.040 --> 0:33:25.360 to do what someone says on Instagram. But you just 0:33:25.480 --> 0:33:30.640 don't know because these people do have influence. And yeah, 0:33:30.720 --> 0:33:33.080 I just can't operate in that area. And that's why 0:33:33.200 --> 0:33:36.320 I've got a license for general advice. You guys like 0:33:36.400 --> 0:33:38.680 talk about a lot of like gossipy stuff. Are we 0:33:38.680 --> 0:33:40.720 going to get to the gossip soon? Yeah? 0:33:40.800 --> 0:33:46.240 Yeah, Like Glen wants Glen wants the tea he wants, Yeah, 0:33:46.240 --> 0:33:46.840 that's right. 0:33:46.720 --> 0:33:48.600 And you know, I listened to your vodcast on Guys. 0:33:48.760 --> 0:33:49.480 I wait here for. 0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:51.200 Right, it is my next question. 0:33:51.280 --> 0:33:55.000 Actually, oh so let's just kind of step back a 0:33:55.040 --> 0:34:00.240 bit just to really give another practical example. That Day 0:34:00.280 --> 0:34:04.479 show Sunrise. You know they've got a money segment. You know, 0:34:04.680 --> 0:34:07.640 I was on Today Extra the other day, first time 0:34:07.680 --> 0:34:10.000 on Today Extra. So that Today Show might have a 0:34:10.000 --> 0:34:13.560 money segment, and they might talk about super So we 0:34:13.640 --> 0:34:15.960 know that they've talked about a class of products. So 0:34:16.000 --> 0:34:20.279 they're already in that financial product advice territory because they've 0:34:20.280 --> 0:34:24.640 talked about the class of product. Now the reason they 0:34:24.680 --> 0:34:28.640 don't need a general advice license is because money isn't 0:34:28.680 --> 0:34:32.440 their core business. Their core businesses or Today's show, we've 0:34:32.440 --> 0:34:35.840 got Karl here, you know, talking with people getting fired 0:34:35.840 --> 0:34:41.480 and then getting rehired because it actually makes us money. Like, oh, 0:34:41.560 --> 0:34:43.600 I also held a logo the other day. I've picked 0:34:43.600 --> 0:34:47.880 it up in the studio. It was heavy anyway, you. 0:34:47.960 --> 0:34:50.920 Just pretended for a moment that that was yours exactly. 0:34:51.280 --> 0:34:54.080 So I think it's so it's just clear to know 0:34:54.320 --> 0:34:58.360 because the Today Show and Sunrise don't have a business 0:34:58.400 --> 0:35:01.319 in the background influencing people as they call business with 0:35:01.400 --> 0:35:05.360 money and making recommendations. That's why they don't need the 0:35:05.360 --> 0:35:06.440 general advice license. 0:35:07.280 --> 0:35:08.439 So that makes where we go back. 0:35:08.800 --> 0:35:13.280 We go back to get invested with Glenn's TikTok. Well, 0:35:13.880 --> 0:35:18.560 my whole thing for my account is money. Yeah, people 0:35:18.640 --> 0:35:21.759 send me DM saying what should I invest in? And 0:35:21.840 --> 0:35:24.680 I don't know if it's going to cut it by saying, hey, 0:35:24.920 --> 0:35:29.000 I'm not an advisor, get your own advice, but have 0:35:29.040 --> 0:35:30.120 a look at this investment here. 0:35:30.320 --> 0:35:30.560 Hmm. 0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:32.120 That's such a good point. 0:35:32.960 --> 0:35:35.920 But also I'm not a lawyer. This stuff hasn't been 0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:41.160 tested in court, and it's still the wild West. We 0:35:41.239 --> 0:35:47.600 all know with new stuff, the law catches up, society 0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:48.239 catches up. 0:35:48.560 --> 0:35:51.400 Now, Glenn, you touched on a bit of controversy before, 0:35:51.840 --> 0:35:54.080 so we're going to get into it. So last week, 0:35:54.200 --> 0:35:58.200 micro influencer Maddie Waltons, who works in retail but runs 0:35:58.239 --> 0:36:01.720 her account money with Maddie Now, she called financial advisor 0:36:01.840 --> 0:36:05.800 Victoria Divine out for her collaboration with six Park, saying 0:36:05.800 --> 0:36:10.080 that Victoria didn't completely disclose her financial benefits. Now, it 0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:14.480 appears the Financial Review incorrectly referred to the partnership as 0:36:14.520 --> 0:36:18.200 a form of referral, which has subsequently been clarified as 0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:21.440 a revenue share agreement. Firstly, I'd love to know what 0:36:21.480 --> 0:36:24.560 your reaction is to the story, and also maybe can 0:36:24.600 --> 0:36:27.600 you go into the rules around referrals. 0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:32.200 Well, my reaction was like, everyone, Oh, grab some popcorn, 0:36:32.280 --> 0:36:35.560 let's have a read here. But no, firstly, I want 0:36:35.600 --> 0:36:39.840 to say, full disclosure, I'm friends with Victoria. Full disclosure. 0:36:39.920 --> 0:36:44.440 I've met Maddie. I think Tash was involved with that. 0:36:44.560 --> 0:36:47.680 I've met all of them. I don't have a dog 0:36:47.719 --> 0:36:51.680 in this fight, but I will say a couple of things. 0:36:53.239 --> 0:36:57.200 Sure Victoria, I think, and she since clarified. I think 0:36:57.239 --> 0:37:00.319 she did a podcast and clarified it. I think she 0:37:00.320 --> 0:37:04.839 did another one or amended that clarification. And sure, she 0:37:05.440 --> 0:37:09.200 obviously wasn't taking a referral fee. So if she was 0:37:09.239 --> 0:37:12.880 taking a referral fee, there would be more incentive for 0:37:12.960 --> 0:37:15.840 her to sign up as many individual people as possible. 0:37:16.280 --> 0:37:20.000 But we know that, you know, I make money, you 0:37:20.040 --> 0:37:22.799 make money. Everyone makes money. We get that she may 0:37:22.840 --> 0:37:26.480 have got lost in the semantics of the words, but 0:37:26.520 --> 0:37:31.120 that's all being clarified and put to bed. So I 0:37:31.160 --> 0:37:34.840 think one other confusing thing that was out there that 0:37:34.920 --> 0:37:40.040 I saw that I'm not against six Park. I'm not 0:37:40.120 --> 0:37:44.640 against Victoria, I'm not against anyone. Actually don't actually wish 0:37:44.760 --> 0:37:50.480 ill upon anyone. But there was misunderstanding about what six 0:37:50.560 --> 0:37:55.520 Park was and the benefits because it's actually formal advice. 0:37:55.560 --> 0:37:58.920 You get that statement of advice. And I don't want 0:37:58.920 --> 0:38:01.160 to bore everyone to tears, but if you want to 0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:03.920 actually understand a bit under the hood in a technical 0:38:03.960 --> 0:38:07.160 way about six Park and how all that works with 0:38:07.320 --> 0:38:11.000 robo advice, there's an episode over on My Millennial Money 0:38:11.400 --> 0:38:13.880 and we go deep on the technicality side of that. 0:38:15.600 --> 0:38:18.120 So all to say that the clab with six Park 0:38:18.280 --> 0:38:22.520 that was legit. Six parks legit. I know six Park 0:38:22.760 --> 0:38:26.080 when they reached out, I think someone asked, six Park 0:38:26.120 --> 0:38:28.279 do you have advisors working there? And I think their 0:38:28.360 --> 0:38:30.640 chatbot or email things said no, we do not have 0:38:30.680 --> 0:38:33.759 advisors here. Where it's like, well, no, your computer produces 0:38:33.800 --> 0:38:37.600 formal financial advice. So there was actually a few things 0:38:38.120 --> 0:38:41.879 that was in this teacup swirling around. There was some 0:38:43.640 --> 0:38:49.520 semantics with wording. There was not understanding that six Park 0:38:49.600 --> 0:38:54.480 actually provided formal financial advice. And the whole thing is like, 0:38:55.960 --> 0:38:58.600 and this is the struggle we all have as podcasters right. 0:38:59.440 --> 0:39:04.040 We have listeners from the whole spectrum, right, and we 0:39:04.160 --> 0:39:07.080 have to do this show and try and please everyone. 0:39:08.520 --> 0:39:10.560 And someone could say, well, why are you doing six Park? 0:39:11.239 --> 0:39:14.480 You need at least five thousand dollars before you get invested. Well, 0:39:14.480 --> 0:39:16.919 believe it or not. If you don't have five thousand dollars, 0:39:17.000 --> 0:39:19.680 that's okay, it's not for you. There can be other 0:39:19.719 --> 0:39:22.959 people that have thirty or forty thousand dollars laying around 0:39:22.960 --> 0:39:25.719 they don't know what to do with it. So I've 0:39:25.719 --> 0:39:29.640 had to like really try and understand myself. If I 0:39:29.680 --> 0:39:32.359 see stuff online and I get outraged, like how can 0:39:32.400 --> 0:39:34.719 they do that? Well, okay, well it's obviously not for me, 0:39:35.200 --> 0:39:38.319 and that's okay. So I think there's just it was 0:39:38.360 --> 0:39:41.400 a big teacup with a lot of things moving. And 0:39:42.760 --> 0:39:46.000 good on the girls for, you know, asking for some clarity. 0:39:46.800 --> 0:39:50.799 Totally get that, And good on Victoria for also being 0:39:50.920 --> 0:39:53.840 open with a bloody AFR. Because if there's someone I 0:39:53.880 --> 0:39:57.000 don't want to dick with, it's the ASSIC and the AFR. 0:39:58.160 --> 0:40:00.680 They're the two acronyms, whereas like and they're probably the 0:40:00.760 --> 0:40:03.040 ato in there. There's three acronyms that I don't want 0:40:03.040 --> 0:40:03.719 to mess around with. 0:40:03.880 --> 0:40:06.799 Right, it seems like there is this sort of war 0:40:06.880 --> 0:40:11.600 against financial advisors and the finfluencers. Do you think there 0:40:11.760 --> 0:40:16.000 is some kind of motivation for some finance influencers to 0:40:16.120 --> 0:40:18.600 try and push these type of stories to tear the 0:40:18.640 --> 0:40:22.319 financial advisors down, because obviously they're all competing for the 0:40:22.320 --> 0:40:25.480 same sponsorship revenue. What do you think some of the 0:40:25.520 --> 0:40:27.480 motivation for these type of stories are. 0:40:28.280 --> 0:40:33.040 I think there's the biggest fight out there online is 0:40:33.120 --> 0:40:37.919 for attention, and if you can make some noise right 0:40:38.040 --> 0:40:42.480 or wrong, you'll get attention. So yeah, I just think 0:40:42.520 --> 0:40:49.000 it's it's wild and yeah, it's good times. But I 0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:53.160 honestly think there will be change coming from the regulators. 0:40:53.480 --> 0:40:55.080 I was going to ask you that, Glenn, what do 0:40:55.120 --> 0:40:56.680 you think needs to change about the rules? 0:40:57.719 --> 0:41:00.720 Well, I think, going back to what I said before, 0:41:00.800 --> 0:41:04.800 like if I'm running my millennial money and I'm generating 0:41:05.160 --> 0:41:09.160 an income and I've got over X amount of followers 0:41:09.239 --> 0:41:12.240 or over X amount of income, I think you should 0:41:12.280 --> 0:41:14.719 just have to have a general advice license, as simple 0:41:14.760 --> 0:41:18.799 as that. So I honestly think in terms of the 0:41:18.920 --> 0:41:24.560 money scene, the regulators probably need to step out and say, yeah, 0:41:24.680 --> 0:41:27.880 if you influence over X amount of people, or you 0:41:27.960 --> 0:41:33.280 generate over X amount per year on that money account. 0:41:33.800 --> 0:41:36.960 That is a core business. You are influencing people about 0:41:37.080 --> 0:41:40.760 money and all that stuff, because I've watched influences online 0:41:41.320 --> 0:41:44.080 say stuff about money and it's been categorically incorrect. 0:41:44.840 --> 0:41:47.759 Yeah, definitely, Well, thank you so much, Glinton. Yea, that 0:41:47.800 --> 0:41:48.560 was great, Thank you. 0:41:51.040 --> 0:41:52.840 I think it is going to be so interesting to 0:41:52.880 --> 0:41:56.319 see this time next year what new guidelines are in place, 0:41:56.360 --> 0:41:59.560 because I do think major changes need to be made. 0:41:59.760 --> 0:42:04.200 The fact that these unqualified finance influencers aren't bound by 0:42:04.200 --> 0:42:08.480 the same guidelines as financial advisors is just so wrong 0:42:08.520 --> 0:42:11.760 to me, because they can push the boundaries when promoting 0:42:11.800 --> 0:42:15.840 financial products. I think it's also quite disturbing because because 0:42:15.880 --> 0:42:18.680 they aren't bound by these guidelines, they are more appealing 0:42:18.719 --> 0:42:21.800 to big brands who want to use more persuasive language 0:42:21.800 --> 0:42:25.160 and have calls to action during these adverts. The financial 0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:29.799 advisors legally and ethically don't give well. Just on the 0:42:29.840 --> 0:42:33.240 issue of brands, I do wonder if some big brands 0:42:33.320 --> 0:42:35.920 are going to reassess whether they do want to use 0:42:36.040 --> 0:42:40.280 unlicensed influencers in the future to promote their products, because 0:42:40.840 --> 0:42:43.960 they do lack a lot of credibility, and we are 0:42:44.000 --> 0:42:47.160 going to see in the future. I believe some influencers 0:42:47.160 --> 0:42:49.520 who are unlicensed held to account. And if you're a 0:42:49.520 --> 0:42:51.879 big brand, you might be saying far our. I don't 0:42:51.880 --> 0:42:53.640 know if I want to be made an example and 0:42:53.719 --> 0:42:56.680 attached to those kinds of people. Yeah, and also it 0:42:56.719 --> 0:42:59.799 does make me really think about the influencers involved in 0:42:59.800 --> 0:43:04.240 this Victoria Divine story. So for me learning the fact 0:43:04.320 --> 0:43:08.720 that these unlicensed influencers can actually gain this referral money 0:43:08.800 --> 0:43:12.239 and also you know, do whatever they want basically with sponsors, 0:43:12.680 --> 0:43:15.520 it does make me think, well, is there a reason 0:43:15.560 --> 0:43:19.200 why these two women have decided to drag Victoria down? 0:43:19.280 --> 0:43:21.960 Because I do think that. I mean, they're working with 0:43:22.040 --> 0:43:25.400 sponsors that she also works with. So if they are 0:43:25.440 --> 0:43:28.719 pointing out that this is ethically and also claiming that 0:43:28.800 --> 0:43:32.280 it is legally not right, and then getting this information 0:43:32.360 --> 0:43:35.640 in the Australian Financial Review, for people and brands that 0:43:35.719 --> 0:43:39.160 don't actually understand that, hey, Victoria actually didn't do anything 0:43:39.200 --> 0:43:43.000 wrong here, they might not want to actually sponsor her. Well, yeah, 0:43:43.080 --> 0:43:45.200 they've got a lot to gain, don't they by dragging 0:43:45.239 --> 0:43:49.239 someone like Victoria Divine down because she is arguably the 0:43:49.320 --> 0:43:53.000 biggest finance influencer in the country, and if she's not 0:43:53.080 --> 0:43:55.720 in the picture anymore, that's going to give other people 0:43:55.719 --> 0:43:58.040 the opportunity. I don't know whether that is their motivation, 0:43:58.120 --> 0:44:00.560 it might not be at all, but it does seem 0:44:00.600 --> 0:44:02.480 a bit iffy that this sort of stuff is going on. Well, 0:44:02.560 --> 0:44:05.279 I'm really worried that there is a vendetta going on 0:44:05.320 --> 0:44:07.279 because as someone who is part of the She's on 0:44:07.320 --> 0:44:11.200 the Money community, these two girls were actually removed a 0:44:11.239 --> 0:44:15.920 few weeks ago for distributing factually incorrect information and also 0:44:16.000 --> 0:44:19.759 breaching community standards of self promotion. So these two girls 0:44:19.800 --> 0:44:23.200 were actually trying to promote their own pages in the group, 0:44:23.600 --> 0:44:27.360 and clearly for Victoria, who is a financial advisor, she 0:44:27.400 --> 0:44:30.279 would be very against unqualified people putting out that sort 0:44:30.280 --> 0:44:30.920 of information. 0:44:31.360 --> 0:44:32.320 Do you know what's crazy? 0:44:32.400 --> 0:44:35.040 Because you think about in twenty twenty one, we all 0:44:35.080 --> 0:44:39.160 seem to be so savvy about wellness influencers and everybody 0:44:39.200 --> 0:44:41.720 seems to be calling out health and fitness and wellness 0:44:41.719 --> 0:44:45.880 influencers for spreading misinformation. But it seems like we're only 0:44:46.080 --> 0:44:48.359 now becoming clued on to the fact that a lot 0:44:48.400 --> 0:44:54.040 of these finance influencers have no credibility, they have no qualifications. 0:44:54.239 --> 0:44:56.320 It doesn't seem like we're that concerned by me. It 0:44:56.360 --> 0:44:59.320 seems like we will still consume the government aren't concerned 0:44:59.360 --> 0:45:02.000 about it. I think people are unaware because I did 0:45:02.000 --> 0:45:06.160 come across tash invest page before and I wasn't aware 0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:08.840 that she was a disability worker. I just assumed she 0:45:08.960 --> 0:45:12.560 was a financial advisor because I didn't really look much 0:45:12.640 --> 0:45:15.160 into it. And that's the thing, though, there's nothing wrong 0:45:15.440 --> 0:45:20.440 with someone taking interest in being financially literate, but it 0:45:20.520 --> 0:45:23.160 does get into a gray area when you are telling 0:45:23.200 --> 0:45:25.600 other people what to do with their finances. And as 0:45:25.640 --> 0:45:29.719 Glenn said, this gray area because if they are giving 0:45:29.760 --> 0:45:33.160 financial advice, they should be under the same laws that 0:45:33.640 --> 0:45:37.600 a qualified financial advisor is under, because it's, as Glenn said, 0:45:37.600 --> 0:45:38.600 it's the wild West. 0:45:38.640 --> 0:45:39.840 Otherwise, you did. 0:45:39.719 --> 0:45:41.640 Touch on this before, aiming I think there is a 0:45:41.640 --> 0:45:44.240 lot of tall poppy syndrome going around at the moment, 0:45:44.280 --> 0:45:47.479 particularly with Victoria divine and sadly, I think the fact 0:45:47.520 --> 0:45:51.120 that she is a young, successful woman has a lot 0:45:51.160 --> 0:45:51.920 to do with it. 0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:54.080 I mean, if you look at Glenn. 0:45:53.719 --> 0:45:57.920 Who is also a very successful host of a money podcast, 0:45:58.200 --> 0:46:02.319 he does not receive the scrutiny that Victoria receipts. You 0:46:02.440 --> 0:46:04.680 just have to look at Victoria's reviews to see that 0:46:04.760 --> 0:46:08.080 she is being unfairly targeted for some reason, and it 0:46:08.160 --> 0:46:10.920 is very clear that I don't know, for some reason, 0:46:10.960 --> 0:46:13.000 we don't like to see a woman doing really well. 0:46:13.080 --> 0:46:13.680 Yeah, it is. 0:46:13.760 --> 0:46:15.680 It is so true because I think a lot of 0:46:15.680 --> 0:46:18.399 the same audience that would listen to Glenn also listen 0:46:18.480 --> 0:46:20.920 to Victoria. And as as you said, the reviews are 0:46:20.920 --> 0:46:23.240 really different. I mean, there's one thing if you're reviewing 0:46:23.239 --> 0:46:26.520 someone and you're actually legitimately giving them something to work on. 0:46:26.560 --> 0:46:28.600 Maybe it's the structure of their podcast. 0:46:28.320 --> 0:46:30.520 But there are a lot of reviews which do tear 0:46:30.600 --> 0:46:33.840 her down her personality. Yeah, I do find it interesting 0:46:33.920 --> 0:46:37.080 that it's two young women that are trying to sort 0:46:37.120 --> 0:46:39.600 of drag her down. Yeah, it is really awkward because 0:46:39.600 --> 0:46:41.680 when I was researching this topic, I did have a 0:46:41.719 --> 0:46:44.640 look at tash invest TikTok page and one of her 0:46:44.640 --> 0:46:47.960 popular videos was her actually talking about how she received 0:46:47.960 --> 0:46:50.879 a comment from Victoria define and how she was fanned. 0:46:50.560 --> 0:46:52.480 Going over it. So it is crazy. 0:46:52.520 --> 0:46:54.760 In just a few months it has blown up into 0:46:54.840 --> 0:46:57.399 this kind of feud between the pair. I am really 0:46:57.400 --> 0:46:59.640 interested to see what does happen in the future because 0:46:59.680 --> 0:47:02.440 they have I've been calls by senior finance lecturers at 0:47:02.560 --> 0:47:06.319 r MIT for social media to introduce wealth warnings on 0:47:06.400 --> 0:47:08.880 social media content, and I think this is a great 0:47:08.960 --> 0:47:12.520 idea because at the moment there are unlicensed influencers who 0:47:12.600 --> 0:47:15.840 are able to say anything they want without any repercussions. 0:47:16.360 --> 0:47:18.520 Well that's all we've got time for today. Thank you 0:47:18.560 --> 0:47:21.120 so much for listening to another episode about Spoken. If 0:47:21.120 --> 0:47:22.880 you did like the episode, we would love if you 0:47:22.880 --> 0:47:25.560 could leave us a review as it really helps us out. 0:47:25.640 --> 0:47:28.799 And don't forget to subscribe on Spotify and also on 0:47:28.840 --> 0:47:31.920 Apple Podcasts and also on Spotify. If you can leave 0:47:32.000 --> 0:47:34.120 us a love heart, it really does help out the show. 0:47:34.200 --> 0:47:35.120 Who I like the idea of 0:47:35.120 --> 0:47:37.879 The love heart And just a reminder if you are 0:47:38.000 --> 0:47:40.960 interested in discussing the topics we've spoken about on the podcast, 0:47:41.040 --> 0:47:43.880 go and join our Facebook community which has outspoken the 0:47:43.920 --> 0:47:44.960 podcast community.