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Speaker 1: This week is the final week of parliamentary settings with

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Speaker 1: the current parliamentary makeup, and late yesterday legislation to implement

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Speaker 1: curfews in the Northern Territory was passed. It is going

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Speaker 1: to make it easier to impose curfews across the Northern Territory,

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Speaker 1: a move that, as we've discussed throughout this week, has

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Speaker 1: certainly been criticized by some groups, including Aboriginal legal aid

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Speaker 1: groups are the Northern Territory Children's Commissioner as well as

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Speaker 1: are the Northern Territory Commissioner for Anti Discrimination. Now it's

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Speaker 1: been welcomed by many everyday territorians. Now it was not

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Speaker 1: without debate yesterday, in fact, that debate continued late into

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Speaker 1: the afternoon. And joining us on the line is the

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Speaker 1: Independent Member for Ara Lun, Robin Lamb leg Good morning

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Speaker 1: to you.

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Speaker 2: Robin, Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 3: Robin. First off, a good move this legislation.

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Speaker 2: Of course, of course it's a good move. We experienced

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Speaker 2: what was significant relief during the Alice Springs curfew that

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Speaker 2: was implemented from the twenty seventh of March to three weeks,

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Speaker 2: so to know that this can now be rolled out

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Speaker 2: fairly easily when necessary is an enormous relief. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is a response to Labour's crime crisis. It's about

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Speaker 2: a safety mechanism. It's a short term solution to chaos,

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Speaker 2: right disorder. It's not a long term solution. I heard

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Speaker 2: one of the critics of curfews say that it doesn't

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Speaker 2: fix the underlying causes of all these problems. Now it doesn't.

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Speaker 2: It's not intended to. It's just to put the fire out,

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Speaker 2: stop this nonsense and restore law and order. And I

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Speaker 2: welcome this legislation.

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Speaker 3: And it's something that.

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Speaker 1: You and I have spoken about on so many occasions, Robert.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I would say from years ago you had

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Speaker 1: said that it could be a stopgap measure. It's not

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Speaker 1: something that you've ever said to me that you want

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Speaker 1: in place, you know, long term, but it is something

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Speaker 1: that can give you know, that bit of respite and

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Speaker 1: allow the police then to surge in as we saw

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Speaker 1: in Alice Springs, to hopefully make a difference.

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Speaker 2: This is great. There are some shortcomings of it though,

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Speaker 2: which came to light yesterday, and one of them is

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Speaker 2: that it doesn't apply to Aboriginal lands under the Aboriginal

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Speaker 2: Land right. Why is that, Well, this is a bit

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Speaker 2: peculiar and a bit suspicious, to be honest. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: apply effectively to fifty percent of the land mass of

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory. And I heard some commentary earlier today

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Speaker 2: it's something to do with the constitution, but I don't

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Speaker 2: quite believe this. I think it's very suspicious. I think

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory police have a responsibility to keep everyone safe,

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Speaker 2: whether they live on Aboriginal lands or not, and pretty

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Speaker 2: much the police need to and must be able to

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Speaker 2: do their job. And if they can implement a seventy

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Speaker 2: six hour curfew in Alice things and surely they can

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Speaker 2: do it in what air or the Daily River or

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Speaker 2: wherever else things are going pair shape, I think it's

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Speaker 2: a bit of a mystery. It hasn't been fully explained,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's nonsense, to be honest.

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Speaker 1: Well, Robin, I was listening to you to that debate

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Speaker 1: late yesterday and was hearing the final readings happening, and

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Speaker 1: I heard the Deputy Opposition Leader Jared Mayley, as well

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Speaker 1: as other independents, asking a number of questions about some

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Speaker 1: of the changes, like what you've just spoken about the

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal land not applying to that, but also about whether

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Speaker 1: roads would be able to sort of be blocked, or

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Speaker 1: whether people would be able to be forced to stop

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Speaker 1: coming in and out of different locations.

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Speaker 3: What did you make of that aspect of the legislation.

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Speaker 2: Well, I guess the police need to decide what is required,

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Speaker 2: and it really would be a discretionary thing based on

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Speaker 2: the situation. I mean, if all hell's breaking loose in

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Speaker 2: a particular then it might be necessary to block the

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Speaker 2: roads temporarily to keep people Fathe Katie, you know, this

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Speaker 2: is all about a level of crime that we're now

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Speaker 2: seeing across the territory that's unacceptable. So look, I do

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Speaker 2: have some concerns about this police power that's been given

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Speaker 2: to the Police commissioner, but we can only hope that

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Speaker 2: it's used with great responsibility and dispression, and I think

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Speaker 2: it will be. I'm a little bit surprised that these

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Speaker 2: civil libertarians have taken so long to come out to

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Speaker 2: find their voice, because I've been researching curfews for many

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Speaker 2: years now, almost twenty years, and across the country it's

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Speaker 2: the civil libertarians that have take the most issue to curfews,

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Speaker 2: along the lines that it's an infringement of people's right

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Speaker 2: to move freely, that it racially profiles people, that it's

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Speaker 2: in some way just too much of a stretch when

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Speaker 2: it comes to the freedom of individuals. Look, I just

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Speaker 2: take all that with a grain of salt, to be honest.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we racially profile Aboriginal people in every way

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Speaker 2: every day in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 3: Particularly with some of the alcohol legislation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well there's the alcohol legislation, but you know, there's

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Speaker 2: special rules and provisions in our education system, our health system,

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Speaker 2: our housing system, our business grants and so forth. Aboriginal

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Speaker 2: people are racially profiled to look after them and to

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Speaker 2: recognize that they have special needs. And I don't see

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Speaker 2: this as any differently. On the streets of Alice Springs,

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Speaker 2: all the kids that are running around at three o'clock

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Speaker 2: in the morning are Aboriginal kids. There's very rarely, if ever,

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Speaker 2: a white face. So if this is racially profiling looking

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Speaker 2: after those kids, taking them home, making sure they're looked

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Speaker 2: after for a couple of days under a curfew, then

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Speaker 2: so be it. I think it's a problem with that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, people in Alice Springs saying, I mean, are the

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Speaker 1: large majority of people in Alice Springs when you guys

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Speaker 1: are the only ones that have experienced a curfew.

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Speaker 3: So what are they saying.

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Speaker 1: Do they feel like this is a good move or

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Speaker 1: are there people raising concerns with us.

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Speaker 2: They're saying, thank god, thank god it's happening now, and

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Speaker 2: why didn't it happen bloody years ago? That's what they're

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Speaker 2: saying to med Katie. I mean, you know, the lives

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Speaker 2: and hypocrisy of this government. It's like they've just found

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Speaker 2: a lolly shop on the corner, you know, like, oh

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Speaker 2: look here, you know, we've come up with this great idea.

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Speaker 2: You know, they're all against it. I think they're all

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Speaker 2: very much divided over it. The way it's been implemented

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Speaker 2: is very interesting and reflects the division. I mean, they've

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Speaker 2: got the ombosman in the legislation on standby to evaluate it.

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Speaker 2: They haven't included Aboriginal lands obviously they're worried about upsetting

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Speaker 2: Aboriginal people. And you know, the ability for them to

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Speaker 2: determine or you know, the local decision making agreements that

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Speaker 2: they're rolling out. These are very important things. But at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, territories, I think we're whether

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Speaker 2: they're black or white, want to feel safe, and if

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Speaker 2: it involves shutting the place down for a couple of

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Speaker 2: days in order to do so, even if they live

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Speaker 2: on Aboriginal lands, I'm sure they will welcome it because

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Speaker 2: it just makes common sense.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is one of the things that I've

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Speaker 1: found really, you know, really sad over the last couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks, is when we've spoken about the unrest in

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Speaker 1: the daily region. For example, some of the people that

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Speaker 1: have have you know, really been in the worst situation

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Speaker 1: are our most vulnerable and I'm talking the elderly and children,

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal people in those communities where then homes are being

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Speaker 1: burnt to the ground and people being targeted. So I

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Speaker 1: think at the end of the day, this isn't about

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Speaker 1: just keeping you know, keeping white townies safe. This is

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Speaker 1: about keeping everybody safe and making sure that there is

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Speaker 1: a level of law that is abided by by absolutely everybody,

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Speaker 1: no matter where you come from.

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Speaker 2: Look, I couldn't agree with you more. And I think

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Speaker 2: the Children's Commissioner and the Anti Discrimination Commissioner they're paid

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Speaker 2: to take this tack. They're paid to come out and

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Speaker 2: talk about these issues. But if they really were honest

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Speaker 2: with themselves, they'd realize that this is a good measure.

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Speaker 2: First and foremost, we need to keep people safe, and

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Speaker 2: in particular we need to keep kids safe. And if

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Speaker 2: a curfew does that for a couple of days and

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Speaker 2: this is a good thing, you know, they need to

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Speaker 2: just move away the cloudiness that they're you know, the

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Speaker 2: ideological sort of stances that civil libertarians take can impact

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Speaker 2: and just see things for the way they are. And

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Speaker 2: the way they are is that Aboriginal kids and families,

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Speaker 2: particularly living in remote Aboriginal communities, are our most vulnerable

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Speaker 2: and they should be included in this legislation. I know,

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Speaker 2: ying ya, Girlie. And the member for Mulka took exception

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Speaker 2: to this. He saw it as an extension of police

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Speaker 2: power which could have a negative impact on his people.

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Speaker 2: But look, you know, I respecting his position on this,

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Speaker 2: but I think overall, this is just something that will

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Speaker 2: be used infrequently when things get out of hand. And

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Speaker 2: by God, Katie, we think we see these incidents happen

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Speaker 2: too often in the territory and I feel relieved and

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Speaker 2: happy that finally this labor government has come to their

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Speaker 2: senses and got on board.

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Speaker 1: Robin, I want to ask you, I understand that there

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Speaker 1: was some discussion yesterday in Parliament around a hospital or

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Speaker 1: around a new hospital for Alice Springs. What exactly was

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Speaker 1: being discussed, Well.

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Speaker 2: The government was trying to wedge the opposition on it.

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Speaker 2: They were talking about the motion that I put to

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Speaker 2: Parliament last Wednesday asking again that they start planning for

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Speaker 2: a new Alice Springs hospital. Given that the Palmeston hospital

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Speaker 2: took two years to plan and build, and I assume

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Speaker 2: that a hospital in Alice Springs would take the same

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Speaker 2: length of time. So we're not talking about tomorrow even

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Speaker 2: next week. We're doing that in a decade's time that

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Speaker 2: we will need a new hospital in Alice Springs. But

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Speaker 2: the government we're trying to wedge the office by saying, well,

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Speaker 2: we didn't hear the opposition members say that they support

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Speaker 2: a new Alice Springs hospital, and that's true, they haven't committed.

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Speaker 2: So look, I think if the CLP get in and

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Speaker 2: if I've got any sway or saying it's that that

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Speaker 2: will be front and center Katie for me that they

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Speaker 2: start planning for an Alice Springs hospital. There's been no no, no,

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Speaker 2: no no from Labor, but I hope the CLP we'll

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Speaker 2: see that as an absolutely sensible decision to make to

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Speaker 2: start planning for a contemporary hospital for Alice Springs. At

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Speaker 2: the moment, where we're building buildings on top of each other,

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Speaker 2: we're building on car parks. Is not a square meter

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Speaker 2: of space left, Robin?

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Speaker 3: What else is on the agenda for you this week?

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Speaker 1: It is the final week of parliament, as you know,

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Speaker 1: as the parliament sits currently, we know that there's still

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Speaker 1: estimates and another day a bit later in the year.

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Speaker 1: But what else is on the agenda for you this week?

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Speaker 2: Well, we finish up tomorrow evening, so I think we're

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Speaker 2: in for two fairly long nights. Most of the members

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Speaker 2: haven't given their budget response speeches, so that will go

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Speaker 2: on for the next two days. But there's an interesting

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Speaker 2: bill coming forward looking at portable long service le transfer

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Speaker 2: that people in the community working in the community sector

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Speaker 2: can start accumulating long service leave from day one. Essentially

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Speaker 2: that will be managed by a board. So given that

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Speaker 2: people in the community sector often don't have employment beyond

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Speaker 2: a couple of years, there's short term contracts that they

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Speaker 2: can still get long service leave entitlements through this board

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Speaker 2: that will be set up to manage their accrued long

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Speaker 2: service leave. So that's pretty interesting. It would be interesting

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Speaker 2: to hear the debate on that. But we're coming to

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Speaker 2: the end of a four year term, Katie. Yes, that's profound,

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Speaker 2: it's significant, and I think a lot of people might

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Speaker 2: be making some speeches reflecting on the last four years.

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Speaker 2: I think I might do that and let's see what

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Speaker 2: happens in the election.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be interesting. Hey, very quick question, Robin,

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Speaker 1: that's come through from one of our listeners, just wondering,

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Speaker 1: so if what Air or Daily go nuts, is there

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Speaker 1: going to be a curfew that's able to be applied

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Speaker 1: by the sounds of it.

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Speaker 2: No, No, it's a bit of a Clayton's piece of

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Speaker 2: legislation here. It's the cursey you're having when you're not

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Speaker 2: really having a curfew across fifty percent of the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: Very quickly before I let you go of the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory government this morning announcing that they've got a trial

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Speaker 1: underway allowing territory cafes to offer reusable coffee cups to

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Speaker 1: their customers.

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Speaker 3: What do you think of this? Is it a bit

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Speaker 3: sort of.

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Speaker 1: Not reading the room at this point in time, you know,

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Speaker 1: like we're all pretty worried about.

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Speaker 2: Very Listen, yeah, Katie, but I guess you know some

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Speaker 2: people don't clean in their cups very well. I've noticed

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Speaker 2: I'm a bit pedantic about my cup, funk. I usually

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Speaker 2: squeeze a bit of bleach into a into a perfectly

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Speaker 2: QUI so I'll be examining people's cup if I couldn't

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Speaker 2: really care less, Katie fry Well, I wonder.

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Speaker 3: Whether other people do as well.

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Speaker 1: That was why I thought it was interesting that they've

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Speaker 1: made this announcement this morning that they're trialing these reusable

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Speaker 1: coffee cups for their customers. And look, you know, great,

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Speaker 1: great that we're all making sure that we're looking after

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Speaker 1: the environment. But I just sort of thought, oh, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's reading the room of what normal

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Speaker 1: people are caring about at this point in time.

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Speaker 2: I don't think so.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, Robin, good to speak to you. As always, we'll

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Speaker 3: talk to you very soon. Good luck with the marathon, Katie,

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Speaker 3: Thank you, thanks so much, Robin. We'll talk to you soon.