Speaker 1: Life un Cut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose
Speaker 1: lands were never seeded. We pay our respects to their
Speaker 1: elders past and present.
Speaker 2: Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was
Speaker 2: recorded on Drug Wallamuta Land. Hi guys, and welcome back
Speaker 2: to another episode of Life on Patna. I'm pretty holy dully,
Speaker 2: it has been a morning.
Speaker 1: It has been. I mean, we always say we driving chaos.
Speaker 1: We always say how chaotic life is. Today was probably
Speaker 1: the most chaotic it's been in as long as I
Speaker 1: can remember.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you why things are going wrong. It's because
Speaker 2: producer Keisha is still in Europe sucking down.
Speaker 1: After all spirits. Oh I think you're gonna say sucking
Speaker 1: someone else.
Speaker 2: She's probably tatter it.
Speaker 1: She is down in opp Rol Spirits. She's there for
Speaker 1: another week and she's left us to our own devices. Now,
Speaker 1: we for over two years by ourselves, once upon a time.
Speaker 1: God knows how we did that. You know why? Because
Speaker 1: it was simple. You know the old kiss saying keep
Speaker 1: it simple stupid? You remember that from school?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: With life, they're like, just kiss it, keep it simple, stupid.
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone said it as like a life
Speaker 2: mottol but like I did sure my entire life.
Speaker 1: I thought your life model was risk for there it was,
Speaker 1: and then it was kiss, which is why risk it for.
Speaker 1: The biscuit was mine. They're playing to each other. But
Speaker 1: it was so easy for us because we were at home.
Speaker 1: We didn't have fancy equipment. We didn't have like all
Speaker 1: these cameras and like zoom recordings and desks. We didn't
Speaker 1: have desks, we didn't.
Speaker 5: Have pants, We literally had nothing, and it was easier
Speaker 5: than what it is now between Britain and I we're
Speaker 5: both so technologically challenged that in order to be able
Speaker 5: to record today's episode, they have everything here like we're
Speaker 5: at the.
Speaker 2: Podcasting studio, I guess you'd call it. But we brought
Speaker 2: our own equipment because we don't know how to use
Speaker 2: the equipment here.
Speaker 1: I came with my suitcase.
Speaker 2: I brought a suitcase.
Speaker 1: It still has like my virgin stickert attached to it.
Speaker 1: I put all the equipment in it and I wheeled
Speaker 1: it on in. We set it all up. Let's not
Speaker 1: like talk ourselves down too much.
Speaker 2: The floor is on lava, but everything is fine.
Speaker 1: The floor is on lava.
Speaker 2: The floor is lava.
Speaker 1: We're back from your honeymoon, not honeymoon.
Speaker 2: Guys went to Fiji for five days. I'm sure we
Speaker 2: probably knew that if you listened to the last week's
Speaker 2: episode or saw it on the socials.
Speaker 1: Did you ask him if they wanted to see it
Speaker 1: on socials?
Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't say, hey, guys, does anyone want
Speaker 2: to see my honeymoon on socials? I just made you.
Speaker 1: All view it.
Speaker 2: But what I would like to say is taking your
Speaker 2: own children along with your sister's children and your sister
Speaker 2: and her husband on your honeymoon. I think it makes
Speaker 2: it less of a honeymoon and just a holiday with family.
Speaker 1: Well it's not ideal, but correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: Didn't you say that Matt thought he was going on
Speaker 1: a honeymoon. He didn't really know that you'd invited the
Speaker 1: rest of.
Speaker 2: The No, no, no, no, he knew, he knew. Alicia
Speaker 2: thought it was her fortieth birthday present. That was a
Speaker 2: different thought. We were going to celebrate her fortieth and
Speaker 2: then I was like, hey, I know you're turning forty,
Speaker 2: but it is also our honeymoon. So I just combined
Speaker 2: and joined things. Where we stayed had the best freaking
Speaker 2: kids club, Like it was amazing, and I expected that
Speaker 2: the girls were going to get there and then not
Speaker 2: want to go to kids club and complains they wanted
Speaker 2: to be with us. They woke up every morning and
Speaker 2: they ran out the door. They were like, well, going
Speaker 2: to kids clubs on their own as they didn't want
Speaker 2: a bar of us until it came to like four
Speaker 2: o'clock in the afternoon. And it was possibly the best
Speaker 2: holiday I think I've ever had.
Speaker 1: So did they? Kids club every day?
Speaker 2: Kids club every day?
Speaker 4: Man?
Speaker 2: They made T shirts. We like out making grass skirts,
Speaker 2: they were collecting eggs. It was their holiday. We just
Speaker 2: paid for it.
Speaker 1: It was an expensive honeymoon, wasn't it. It was a
Speaker 1: whole family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a fair. That's what happens when you have children,
Speaker 2: and especially when your youngest one is over to and
Speaker 2: you got to buy them a ticket. Laula didn't sit
Speaker 2: on that fucking seat for one second. When do you
Speaker 2: have to start paying for a kid at one, two two? Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then it's full price at ever. Yeah. There's no
Speaker 2: intermission phase where they're like, oh, that kid's too but
Speaker 2: they don't take up that much of the seed, so
Speaker 2: let's just charge them a quarter of the price.
Speaker 1: Do you still get like when you walk onto the
Speaker 1: plane and you've got, oh your shit, and you've got
Speaker 1: two kids and one't Lola's. We know, Lola's wild little
Speaker 1: potato head. Do you still get like the subtle looks
Speaker 1: from people down the corridor being like, oh fuck, please
Speaker 1: don't sit next to me, Please don't sit next to me.
Speaker 1: Like do you feel down the corridor?
Speaker 2: It's it's kind of okay when you fly to somewhere
Speaker 2: like Fiji, because I feel like majority of the people
Speaker 2: who are flying they have children.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they're kids club are known worldwide. I need
Speaker 1: you get known for kids clubs.
Speaker 2: They're known for kids clubs. And also the Fijian people
Speaker 2: are so beautifully lovely and they are they are like
Speaker 2: born to be parents, Like they are just the kindest,
Speaker 2: most patient and lovely people. And so everybody takes their
Speaker 2: children there and are like, hey, have my kids for
Speaker 2: a week. Here they are, and so we offload them.
Speaker 2: The one thing though, it did happen to me speaking
Speaker 2: of romantic honeymoons, is the curse, my tropical holiday curse.
Speaker 2: What's that hit me again?
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a real thing.
Speaker 2: Isn't every time I go on a tropical holiday and
Speaker 2: you know this bread. Basically, we flew in to Nadi.
Speaker 2: We got on a little boat that took us over
Speaker 2: to where we were staying. The second the second my
Speaker 2: foot touch land, I was like, you've got to be
Speaker 2: kidding me. Period.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 1: I was about to say diarrhea rain or u TI
Speaker 1: rain rain in my pants?
Speaker 2: Period, blood rain. The second flood, it was a blood flat.
Speaker 2: The gates opened, the damn flooded honeymoon blood flood. That's
Speaker 2: exactly what happened. I took the.
Speaker 1: Honeymoon blood flood. Shall hear me known from here? For
Speaker 1: that you have the curse of the honeymoon blood plot.
Speaker 2: I took one step onto the island and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I didn't even pack or in a remote island somewhere,
Speaker 2: I had no tampoons.
Speaker 1: Would you not pack a tampon?
Speaker 2: Because I got them a week early? Didn't I It's
Speaker 2: literally like my body was like, oh, you're going on
Speaker 2: a honeymoon, cool.
Speaker 1: No sex for you?
Speaker 2: Period? We're really going to fuck Matt's stream side.
Speaker 1: You can still do period section.
Speaker 2: He is not a stand of it, he lied once
Speaker 2: on the podcast. I remember once we interviewed him and
Speaker 2: he said he doesn't mind. He was like, oh, I'm
Speaker 2: all four period sex. And then as soon as I
Speaker 2: actually had them, and I'm like, do we call them
Speaker 2: with them? I don't know when they're actually here, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, baby, let's get jigg they show up. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they came. Anyway, well she she arrived.
Speaker 1: They came. You didn't.
Speaker 2: They came and I did not. That's definitely the moral
Speaker 2: of the story. But anyway, apart from that, we had
Speaker 2: a beautiful honeymoon. It was a great time. Matt swam
Speaker 2: many laps underwater. I saw them.
Speaker 1: That's all I saw of the holiday was just matt'
Speaker 1: sween underwater pretty much all I like. It's like the kids,
Speaker 1: they're like, mum.
Speaker 2: Watch me.
Speaker 1: That was like what Matt was doing. So what was
Speaker 1: the highlight?
Speaker 2: Laying on my back. I woke up in the morning,
Speaker 2: I went to the breakfast buffet, I shipped my kids
Speaker 2: off to kids club, and then I went to the gym,
Speaker 2: and then I laid by the pool And that was
Speaker 2: pretty much my entire day.
Speaker 1: But that's what a holiday should be, or what you're
Speaker 1: describing is that you were on a holiday. You're like,
Speaker 1: believe it or not, you've probably never done that before.
Speaker 2: Well, no, The problem is is that once you have children,
Speaker 2: you just parent in a new location. That's all you do.
Speaker 2: So it's their holiday and you just chaperone them on it,
Speaker 2: and kids club is a game changer. And prior to
Speaker 2: this holiday, my kids have been too young for kids Club,
Speaker 2: like Lola has a little melon head, it has been
Speaker 2: too little. And this is the first time that genuinely
Speaker 2: she got up every morning and she was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: kid club and she ran out the door.
Speaker 1: So does that mean the only holiday you're ever going
Speaker 1: to do again is back to Fiji, back to the
Speaker 1: kids club.
Speaker 2: We're only ever going to places with kids club from
Speaker 2: now on.
Speaker 1: Imagine Europe or something that kids club couldn't do it.
Speaker 2: Could you need to go to kids club? I don't
Speaker 2: care about your posatana. I don't want to go and
Speaker 2: sit on a beach with my children around there.
Speaker 1: We did that Mali right when she was like.
Speaker 2: She was a fotis a little blob. She was literally
Speaker 2: she'd just come out of me and she was still
Speaker 2: a fetus.
Speaker 1: Why did you do that? As a new you just
Speaker 1: like fuck it?
Speaker 2: No, this is a misconception. Traveling with newborn babies is
Speaker 2: actually completely fine traveling with like a three month old
Speaker 2: baby because they just sleep all the time. So we
Speaker 2: went to Europe when Maley was only three months old.
Speaker 2: We had the most amazing trip, but once they hit
Speaker 2: about four months, five months, six months, goes rapidly downhill.
Speaker 2: We are not going back to Europe until they're seventeen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then they can pay for themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how that's why you send them over there. Do
Speaker 2: you know what? One thing did happen to me though,
Speaker 2: which I thought I had my own little accidentally unfiltered moment.
Speaker 2: I was. So we went out for the dinner this
Speaker 2: one night and there was a couple who we met,
Speaker 2: and they were very proper. They were very lovely, but
Speaker 2: they had a proper domestic sitting next to us at
Speaker 2: the table. But started off with a little bickering fight
Speaker 2: between the two of them.
Speaker 1: How old are we talking?
Speaker 2: They were probably in their forties. Nationality yeah Aussie's, Like
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure they were from Sydney. Anyway, they were
Speaker 2: having a little bit of a bickering fight and then
Speaker 2: it turned into him being like I could overhear it.
Speaker 2: It was so it was so inappropriately loud for how
Speaker 2: close we were sitting to each other. He was saying,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm we're not doing this shit again, Like
Speaker 2: I can't believe we're going to rehash this. So they
Speaker 2: were having a full on argument and then she sat
Speaker 2: pretty quiet for the rest of the dinner. And it
Speaker 2: was awkward because we'd just met and like we'd had
Speaker 2: a really nice chat and then it was kind of like,
Speaker 2: oh God, I wonder what's going on there.
Speaker 1: But it is awkward when also you know that they
Speaker 1: know that, you know, that's exactly yeah, when everyone in
Speaker 1: the situation knows.
Speaker 2: So the next morning I get to break and they're there.
Speaker 2: They're sitting at the table, rub it lecture us. No, no,
Speaker 2: it's a different restaurants, are sitting right there, and we
Speaker 2: sat down next to them. I was like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: a bit awkward, you know, like we heard them having
Speaker 2: a fight. They know that we heard them having a fight.
Speaker 2: They were looking at us. We didn't say we did
Speaker 2: like some like cordial like is that what's good? We
Speaker 2: were like hellos, you know anyway down were like, hi,
Speaker 2: how are you if? It is it cordial like the
Speaker 2: drink or is it cordial.
Speaker 1: It's said the same, but it's spelled it ha ha.
Speaker 2: So we sat at breakfast and had some cordial and
Speaker 2: then said hello and then cordialed, and then we cordialed,
Speaker 2: so we said a low exchanged like a little bit
Speaker 2: of you know, pleasantries. And then I was like feeding
Speaker 2: Lala and they were staring at us, and I was like,
Speaker 2: this is weird. But then they kept staring at us
Speaker 2: and I and I said to my must be really
Speaker 2: awkward for them because we heard them having that fight
Speaker 2: last night. And then I'm feeding Alla her wheatbits. And
Speaker 2: this goes on for a good fifteen minutes, no exaggeration,
Speaker 2: and then I look up again and they're still looking
Speaker 2: at me intermittently like they're back to their breakfast. And
Speaker 2: then they look up and stare at me oddly, and
Speaker 2: then they look back down and like.
Speaker 1: When you're seventeen, you would have said take.
Speaker 2: A picture at a last literally give it simple, stupid.
Speaker 2: So we get to a point where I'm like, this
Speaker 2: is very They're making this very uncomfortable now, like what's like,
Speaker 2: what's the problem anyway, I just do a bit of
Speaker 2: a face, like like a what's like, what's your problem face? Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's your problem face.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, the one like little eyebrow raised. I
Speaker 1: haven't had enough bowtox to freeze.
Speaker 2: It yet, just a little like, hey, I've got some
Speaker 2: use of my forehead again. And he just looks down
Speaker 2: and then looks back up, and I was like, what
Speaker 2: are they doing? And I looked down my entire tit,
Speaker 2: the whole left tit. I was wearing a button up
Speaker 2: shirt and my entire left tit was just sitting out
Speaker 2: of my shirt half. It was like hovering a centimeter
Speaker 2: above Lola's weet my knee. Yeah. I had been sitting
Speaker 2: there at breakfast the whole time with my button up
Speaker 2: shirt done up and just one entire tit which I
Speaker 2: wasn't wearing a bra, and it was hanging almost in
Speaker 2: Lola's wheat bits. And they had just been staring at
Speaker 2: me like, surely she will realize this. And I didn't.
Speaker 1: Minute as Matt not realized that your tit was out.
Speaker 2: No one did. He was sitting next to me, and
Speaker 2: they were sitting directly in front of me. No one
Speaker 2: told me the whole of breakfast, just a whole boob.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a difference with like someone not telling
Speaker 2: you that you tags out.
Speaker 1: But when you tits out like someone needs to give
Speaker 1: your heads up, like you fucking did me dirty. Hey
Speaker 1: you've got a bit of green on your teeth. You
Speaker 1: tag down your tits out.
Speaker 2: You gotta tag a tea.
Speaker 1: Hey, I'm just tagging you. That is so funny.
Speaker 2: They think maybe they thought I'd done it on purpose.
Speaker 1: No, no, I mean it is weird that you didn't
Speaker 1: feel the breeze.
Speaker 2: On it or it was beautiful and warm. I was
Speaker 2: moist everywhere, So weird.
Speaker 1: You didn't feel like the wheatbits and the milk lapping
Speaker 1: up onto the bottom of the breast.
Speaker 2: They weren't in the wheatbecks. They were hovering a very
Speaker 2: small amount above the wheat pits.
Speaker 1: They probably thought, you're still breastfeeding and you're putting your
Speaker 1: milk into the whetick.
Speaker 2: To beat it to lower for some extra sustenance. Anyway, So,
Speaker 2: speaking of highlights of the trip, that was that was
Speaker 2: one of them.
Speaker 1: Really, that's so funny. Do you know what happened to
Speaker 1: me nowhere near is they're still okay, there's one thing
Speaker 1: that happened to me that I'm still debating if I'm
Speaker 1: going to tell you so maybe in the coming I'll
Speaker 1: think about it.
Speaker 2: Just tell me now.
Speaker 1: I might tell you on Thursday next week. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna think about it for a minutees pretty gross.
Speaker 2: Are you going to bread crumb this to hope that
Speaker 2: people listen on Thursday?
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, we'll do that.
Speaker 2: I'll break r Okay, what does it have to do
Speaker 2: with give me, give me some cou something.
Speaker 1: The rankest thing that, one of the rankest things that's
Speaker 1: happened to me happened to me, barling. But I'm going
Speaker 1: to sit on it for now. You know what, we're
Speaker 1: doing live shows. Later I'm weighing up whether I say
Speaker 1: it for a live show. It was disgusting anyway.
Speaker 2: Did you just announce without it being an official announcement
Speaker 2: that we're doing proper live shows.
Speaker 1: Well, we've sort of done that a few times. We've
Speaker 1: sort of mentioned live shows. Everyone knows we're doing them, right.
Speaker 2: Well, if you didn't know that we're doing we've done that.
Speaker 1: We're doing a live show.
Speaker 2: But we're not just doing one live show this year.
Speaker 2: We have literally just confirmed that we are going to
Speaker 2: be doing live shows all across the country and that
Speaker 2: is going to be happening in October and early November,
Speaker 2: which is naturally too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Bring on the Life one Cut baby tickets and
Speaker 1: not on sale yep, so don't go looking for them.
Speaker 1: We'll let you know, but they are going on sale
Speaker 1: very very soon. So keep your ears and eyes and
Speaker 1: titties open.
Speaker 2: Yeah, keep everything ready to accept the Life on Cut
Speaker 2: live show. If you want to know when it's happening, Yes,
Speaker 2: you can listen to the podcast. But a way more
Speaker 2: effective way and you will get the tickets straight away
Speaker 2: is go and follow us on socials at Life Uncut
Speaker 2: Podcasts because we will absolutely announce it on Instagram when
Speaker 2: that is all happening.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Look, you're gonna know about it. You
Speaker 1: will know about it. We're gonna be screaming it from
Speaker 1: the rooftops. No, something super annoying happened to me in Balle.
Speaker 1: Annoying on multiple levels because one it was inconvenient and
Speaker 1: two it just made me like an idiot in front
Speaker 1: of Ben. I had been you know Ben you know hates,
Speaker 1: not hates, but he's scared of every animal in the universe.
Speaker 1: So we had been everyone knows in Bali monkeys are everywhere, right.
Speaker 2: Is this the story that you're bread coming to Thursday
Speaker 2: and you're just telling us now, no, this is a
Speaker 2: different story. Sorry yet cool. Stay tuned for Thursday's episode.
Speaker 2: When what happened to life?
Speaker 1: No, it's just this is just it was just a
Speaker 1: funny situation. I didn't think it ever happened to me,
Speaker 1: but I've been to Bali so many times, so I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, when you're like showing off, I
Speaker 1: was just like, babe, just like, I'll show you the
Speaker 1: ropes of Ballei.
Speaker 2: It's my backyard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, stick with me, like I know everything about Ballet.
Speaker 1: I had been hounding him a lot about the monkeys
Speaker 1: because you know, they can be very cheeky in Bali.
Speaker 1: They steal a lot of stuff, they can break in.
Speaker 1: And so when we arrived at this villa in Uluatu,
Speaker 1: it was up on the mountains on the cliff, there
Speaker 1: were monkeys everywhere, and the owner had been like, you know,
Speaker 1: the monkeys do come in sometimes whatever. So I kept
Speaker 1: saying to Ben, like, be really careful because it just
Speaker 1: like leads stuff around. And I was hounding him constantly
Speaker 1: about it. Anyway, I we were out some baking and
Speaker 1: I watched this happen in slow motion were some baking
Speaker 1: and I were eating lunch on this deck by the pool,
Speaker 1: and I took my hat off to go for a swim,
Speaker 1: and I took my visial line out because I was eating,
Speaker 1: and I put my vizil line in my hat and
Speaker 1: I left it on the beach chair and then we
Speaker 1: dove into the pool, and in slow motion, I watched
Speaker 1: a monkey jump off the roof walk over to my
Speaker 1: hat and I was like, oh my god, you little shit,
Speaker 1: no took my inbizzle line, took my hat. You could
Speaker 1: not write this and fucked off the little fucker. So
Speaker 1: I have lost three mizzle lines now, one buried by Delilah,
Speaker 1: two of them to Dela, and one of them to.
Speaker 5: This monkey.
Speaker 2: Is gonna have the best smile in all all the why.
Speaker 1: Too, And he knew it too because the monkey took them.
Speaker 1: You know when you look at a kid right and
Speaker 1: you're like, don't drop it. You know when a kid
Speaker 1: steal something and they look at you and they do
Speaker 1: it anyway, the monkey did that. He literally locked eyes
Speaker 1: on me and I was like, oh, don't do it,
Speaker 1: and then took it. Ben watched the whole thing. He
Speaker 1: just thought it was hysterical. Because I've been riding him
Speaker 1: for a month. So that's my fucking viziline in. Visilin's
Speaker 1: not something you can just lose because it's made for
Speaker 1: your teeth, so you don't just go down to the
Speaker 1: chemists and get another visilin.
Speaker 2: No, it's very annoying, you know what it's because it
Speaker 2: probably tasted like food, which is disgusting to think about it.
Speaker 2: He said, you'd just eaten and then you know, you
Speaker 2: took it out and he would have just been like
Speaker 2: Mike and smell some left over some curry. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: what he's like. That's a bit of a beef rain.
Speaker 2: Dang right there, run off into the mountain.
Speaker 1: What would he do with it?
Speaker 2: Though?
Speaker 1: Like just annoying. What are you gonna do with that?
Speaker 2: He's gonna throw on the ground and litter little shit,
Speaker 2: little shit. Well, with all of our holiday updates, I
Speaker 2: don't feel like we actually told you any of the highlights. Really,
Speaker 2: we both had a great time with our holiday updates
Speaker 2: out of the way. I want to tell you what
Speaker 2: today's episode is about because I feel like it's one
Speaker 2: that is going to relate to so many people, and
Speaker 2: it's going to relate to people in a variety of
Speaker 2: different ways. Now, when I say we produce a Kisha
Speaker 2: and I actually recorded this episode it's all about purpose
Speaker 2: anxiety whilst brit was away in Bali and we interviewed.
Speaker 2: She's a psychologist. Her name is Sabina Reid. The reason
Speaker 2: why I found this so interesting is because I think
Speaker 2: at different times in life, so many of us have
Speaker 2: struggled with what is our purpose? What is it that
Speaker 2: we're supposed to be doing. Often I think this can
Speaker 2: relate to our careers, our career choices to work, especially
Speaker 2: for people who may be finishing school or going through university.
Speaker 2: You have those moments in life where you're like, what
Speaker 2: am I supposed to be doing? And it can feel
Speaker 2: very pressing, like there's almost like a timeline in which
Speaker 2: you need to make these decisions up about your life.
Speaker 2: But I also think it hits us at different times
Speaker 2: in life as well. I think for me, the time
Speaker 2: where I really struggle with purpose anxiety was just after
Speaker 2: becoming a mum and feeling like my identity had change
Speaker 2: so much and I wasn't sure what my role was,
Speaker 2: what was supposed to take precedents in my life, what
Speaker 2: was supposed to be the most important thing to me,
Speaker 2: and I think for me it was juggling a career
Speaker 2: alongside motherhood. But I think that there's so many times
Speaker 2: in life where people struggle with what is the thing
Speaker 2: that they're supposed to be doing with their life, whether
Speaker 2: it be in relationships, whether it be around having children,
Speaker 2: whether it be about their careers. And that's what where
Speaker 2: I'm packing on this episode.
Speaker 1: I'm genuinely shattered that I wasn't here to record it,
Speaker 1: but I'm really keen to listen to this episode as
Speaker 1: like a consumer, because I think purpose anxiety is something
Speaker 1: that every single person experiences, and what you just said
Speaker 1: is right. It doesn't matter where you're at in life
Speaker 1: or how old you are. It can come at any time.
Speaker 1: It's something I know I've battled with all the time.
Speaker 1: I battle with it at the moment now, and I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's because I've got a long distance relationship.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's because I'm about to officially
Speaker 1: go into the second half of my thirties. I'm going
Speaker 1: to say that I'm still thirty five, but next month
Speaker 1: I roll over where I'm closer to forty than thirty
Speaker 1: and that's a big moment for me. But I'm doing
Speaker 1: the same thing now. And sometimes I don't know if
Speaker 1: you ever do this, Laura. I get really deep in
Speaker 1: my mind and I'm like, what is the point? We
Speaker 1: wake up every day and we stress and we're tired,
Speaker 1: and we don't sleep when we go to work, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, is there a greater purpose for me? And
Speaker 1: it comes back to the purpose, like, am I doing
Speaker 1: enough to help people? Am I contributing enough to society?
Speaker 1: Am I contribute enough to my family?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: I start to think about all these things and you
Speaker 1: get so deep into this hectic cycle in your brain
Speaker 1: that sometimes it's hard to get back out and sometimes
Speaker 1: you need a shock to say, hey, everyone experiences this
Speaker 1: and you're doing okay.
Speaker 2: Well. There were two parts of this that I really loved.
Speaker 2: I really loved that Sabina talked about the privilege, the
Speaker 2: privilege that comes from being able to even worry about
Speaker 2: your purpose, because being able to worry about your purpose
Speaker 2: means that every single basic need that you have as
Speaker 2: a human has already been met, Because if you're worrying
Speaker 2: about putting a roof of your head, you're certainly not
Speaker 2: worrying about what your purpose is in life. And the
Speaker 2: second part for me that I thought was just I
Speaker 2: had this humongous a harm when we were speaking is
Speaker 2: Britain and I have talked a lot about attachment theory
Speaker 2: throughout the podcast. If you've read our book Attachment Theory
Speaker 2: or something that has really been a feature that's kind
Speaker 2: of reared its head several times. But we've spoken about
Speaker 2: attachment theory in relation to relationships, how our relationship with
Speaker 2: our parents impact the way in which we relate to
Speaker 2: our romantic partners as we grow up. The thing that
Speaker 2: I loved about what Sabina spoke about is that attachment
Speaker 2: theory also hugely affects the way in which we feel
Speaker 2: purpose in the world and the way that we had
Speaker 2: it modeled to us, the way that we were able
Speaker 2: to lean into the things that brought us joy as children.
Speaker 2: All of that impacts our ability to feel purpose and
Speaker 2: also it impacts what we think we should be doing
Speaker 2: versus what we are actually doing.
Speaker 1: Look, I wanted to talk to you about something that
Speaker 1: it's no surprise, it's something that the whole world is
Speaker 1: talking about the last couple of days, and that is
Speaker 1: Jonah Hill. Now I know Laurcles. We've spoken about it
Speaker 1: off there, but I know you've seen the texts that
Speaker 1: have come out from his girlfriend ex girlfriend, sorry Sarah Brady,
Speaker 1: So a couple of days ago. Sarah his ex girlfriend
Speaker 1: of one year. They dated for twelve months back in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, so a few years has gone past.
Speaker 1: Jonah has just had a baby with his current partner.
Speaker 1: But she has come out on her Instagram. She released
Speaker 1: a series of screenshots with text messages from their exchange
Speaker 1: in their relationship, and she just put the caption fuck
Speaker 1: it and then started sharing and what has turned into many, many, many,
Speaker 1: many Instagram slides and posts. It's gone to TikTok, has
Speaker 1: gone to every news site, It's gone viral about the
Speaker 1: way he treated her and spoke to her in that relationship.
Speaker 2: Now, this wasn't just a couple of messages that were shared.
Speaker 2: This was a fucking takedown, Like, oh yeah, Brittainy went
Speaker 2: really deep on this, because there are so many layers
Speaker 2: to this conversation. It wasn't just a sharing of one
Speaker 2: or two messages or a few images. This was so
Speaker 2: many text messages and so many instances of controlling behavior
Speaker 2: throughout the course of their relationship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we will say allegedly through this because it is allegedly.
Speaker 1: He has not commented and his representatives have not commented,
Speaker 1: so that's very important. But she has come out and
Speaker 1: detailed the alleged emotional abuse in that relationship.
Speaker 2: Well, this is what she had to say when she
Speaker 2: started posting these screenshots. The first thing was, this is
Speaker 2: a warning to all girls, and I'm sharing this publicly
Speaker 2: now because keeping it to myself was causing more damage
Speaker 2: to my mental health than sharing it ever could do. Now,
Speaker 2: she went on to say that he was a narcissist.
Speaker 2: This is what she said, Just another narcissist and you
Speaker 2: make me sick. One of the text messages that she
Speaker 2: shared of Jonah Hill's was him laying down and I'm
Speaker 2: gonna say, quote unquote the boundaries that he has in
Speaker 2: his relationship. But the boundaries were more rules of which
Speaker 2: she needed to abide by. And this is what it said,
Speaker 2: plain and simple. If you need surfing with men, boundaryless
Speaker 2: inappropriate friendships with men to model, to post pictures of
Speaker 2: yourself in a bathing suit, to post sexual pictures, friendships
Speaker 2: with women who are in unstable places, and from your
Speaker 2: wild recent past beyond getting a lunch or a coffee
Speaker 2: or something respectful, then I am not the right partner
Speaker 2: for you. If these things bring you to a place
Speaker 2: of happiness, well I support it and there will be
Speaker 2: no hard feelings. However, these are my boundaries for romantic partnership,
Speaker 2: my boundaries with you based on ways these actions have
Speaker 2: hurt our trust.
Speaker 1: It's important to note before you go on that whilst
Speaker 1: the number one thing was surfing with men, she was
Speaker 1: a pro semi pro surfer, like her job was a
Speaker 1: semi pro sofer, and she modeled a lot for surfing
Speaker 1: companies and bikinis. So the two things that he says.
Speaker 2: At the start are actually an occupation.
Speaker 1: It's her occupation. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean the other part of that that's so important
Speaker 2: to unpack is like, we all know that surfing is
Speaker 2: such a male dominated industry, so to say that you
Speaker 2: can't go surfing with men, firstly, it limits her ability
Speaker 2: to do her occupation. The thing that I think is
Speaker 2: the overarching part of this, he's saying, these are my boundaries,
Speaker 2: and he's smart, he is educated, he has been to
Speaker 2: therapy for a really long time, and instead of acknowledging
Speaker 2: that this is really controlling behavior. He's dressing it up
Speaker 2: as though, but these are my boundaries, which absolves him
Speaker 2: of any sort of manipulation.
Speaker 1: Almost he did it very well, especially to say these
Speaker 1: are the actions that have hurt our trust. Her existence.
Speaker 1: She hasn't done anything wrong, but her existence has hurt
Speaker 1: his trust. So of course your immediate response or her
Speaker 1: immediate response, and it was. She says that is to
Speaker 1: try and work around that, try and say, okay, well,
Speaker 1: what else can I do? And she goes on to
Speaker 1: show another conversation about allegedly Joying to making her delete
Speaker 1: a bunch of photos from her Instagram, and she did
Speaker 1: repost one saying I'm reposting this again, you know, to
Speaker 1: fuck you narcissist kind of thing, And we go on
Speaker 1: to learn because she reposts them, we're going to learn
Speaker 1: that some of them were are literally standing there in
Speaker 1: clothes like clothes. Some were bikinis that he would say
Speaker 1: they show too much ass, like just the control over
Speaker 1: what she can wear. But one in particular was a
Speaker 1: video of her surfing, trying and you can see her
Speaker 1: in this text exchange. She's trying to meet him halfway.
Speaker 1: She's trying to respect these boundaries that he put in,
Speaker 1: which is why. But when you're in it, you're in it, right,
Speaker 1: You don't know. You want to please your lover, the
Speaker 1: person that you think is your safe haven in your home.
Speaker 1: So she started to delete things, and it got to
Speaker 1: the point where he wanted it to delete this one
Speaker 1: video and she says, you know, this is literally my
Speaker 1: best surfing video, my favorite surfing video. And he keeps
Speaker 1: trying to get it to delete it because she's in swimwear,
Speaker 1: believe it or not, in the ocean, to the point
Speaker 1: where she's like, please, can I even just change the
Speaker 1: cover photo, like well the cover, like, don't make me
Speaker 1: delete the video, And again he goes on to throw
Speaker 1: around the words of boundaries and trust and respect.
Speaker 2: One of the hypocrisies of that is so this video
Speaker 2: that he was asking her to delete, that he was
Speaker 2: telling her it was breaking the trust of the boundaries,
Speaker 2: this co opted word boundaries that he's using as a weapon.
Speaker 2: It actually was a video that before they were dating,
Speaker 2: he commented on and used that video to slide into
Speaker 2: her DM. So he commented on that video sent her
Speaker 2: like a cheeky little DM, and that was like how
Speaker 2: their relationship kind of started, and so it's very interesting
Speaker 2: that now that same video that originally kind of drew
Speaker 2: him into her is something that he felt threatened by
Speaker 2: and was using that, as I guess, ammunition to tell
Speaker 2: her that she needed to doctor and censor her Instagram.
Speaker 2: Now we've spoken loads on this podcast and many many
Speaker 2: times before about how not okay it is for a
Speaker 2: partner to try and sensor or tell you what you
Speaker 2: can and can't do and what you can and can't post,
Speaker 2: because it is a real overt way of controlling someone,
Speaker 2: of treating someone as though that you're their property. But
Speaker 2: like we said just earlier, I think the really interesting
Speaker 2: part of this is the way that he's branded it
Speaker 2: as boundaries, as though it's something that he it's a
Speaker 2: limitation within his relationship. But something they think is really
Speaker 2: important for us to unpack is this idea of what
Speaker 2: constitutes boundaries in a relationship. So boundaries are limitations that
Speaker 2: you put on yourself. These are the things that I
Speaker 2: will and won't accept. Now, obviously there are going to
Speaker 2: be some things like I won't be with someone who
Speaker 2: cheats on me, I won't be with someone who lies
Speaker 2: to me. But when it kind of gets down into
Speaker 2: the nitty gritty around I won't be with someone unless
Speaker 2: they behave in a certain way. If if you do this,
Speaker 2: then you're breaking my boundaries. That's when I think it
Speaker 2: crosses over into very manipulative behavior. And that's why Sarah
Speaker 2: has said that it was very emotional manipulative. In this instance,
Speaker 2: what Jona Hill is actually doing is he's telling her
Speaker 2: what to do. He's saying, you need to behave in
Speaker 2: this way and follow these set of rules. It's not boundaries,
Speaker 2: it's a rule book that he's given her.
Speaker 1: Delete this picture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you don't follow this set of rules
Speaker 2: and these guidelines for how I want you to behave,
Speaker 2: then you can't be in this relationship. And that in
Speaker 2: itself is very manipulative.
Speaker 1: Next week on the podcast, actually we're speaking to the
Speaker 1: CEO of Respect Victoria Emily Maguire, and the episode's actually
Speaker 1: all about non physical violent forms of domestic violence, and
Speaker 1: this falls into it. This is gaslighting, it's manipulation, it's coercion,
Speaker 1: it's control. And I think a lot of you'll find
Speaker 1: that's a really interesting episode and we do touch on
Speaker 1: it in that episode as well.
Speaker 2: Now, something I think is really important to touch on.
Speaker 2: And now this in no way excuses his behavior, which
Speaker 2: I think we can all look at and say that
Speaker 2: if those alleged techs are real, then it is hugely problematic.
Speaker 2: But I think it would be remiss of us to
Speaker 2: not talk about his own insecurities and where this might
Speaker 2: actually come from. Because Jonah Hill back in twenty twenty
Speaker 2: one did a documentary. It was called Stuts or Stuts,
Speaker 2: which is the name of his therapist. He created this
Speaker 2: documentary alongside his therapist, and what he described in that
Speaker 2: is the self loathing he has in terms of his
Speaker 2: body image, in terms of his weight, and how in
Speaker 2: his own words, and how that left him being incredibly
Speaker 2: fucked up. The reason why I bring this up is
Speaker 2: because it's so easy to paint people as one dimensional
Speaker 2: and to paint him as being this evil person. But
Speaker 2: I do think it's interesting to unpack where this type
Speaker 2: of behavior has come from. And Jonah Hill has been
Speaker 2: in the media for a very long time, and there
Speaker 2: has always been discussion around his weight, There's always been
Speaker 2: discussion around the way that he looks, and he has
Speaker 2: spoken very publicly about the insecurities he has as a
Speaker 2: person and how that public scrutiny has created once again
Speaker 2: this incredible self loathing that he has. No part of
Speaker 2: me is saying that this behavior from him is okay.
Speaker 2: But I also do think it is very interesting to
Speaker 2: unpack the why behind what may motivate him to want
Speaker 2: to have control in his relationships, and in this instance,
Speaker 2: I think it comes from this deep insecurity that he
Speaker 2: has that has been created by self loathing and the
Speaker 2: public scrutiny around his body and the way that he looks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the way he's been treated in the media over
Speaker 1: the years is horrific. No one deserves the level of
Speaker 1: body shaming that he has experienced, and he spoke about
Speaker 1: that openly. And I remember celebrating him when he came out,
Speaker 1: you know, when he said, I'm done with this. You're
Speaker 1: not going to make me feel bad about my body anymore.
Speaker 1: I remember being like fucking Bravo, like live your life.
Speaker 1: But I think the thing here for me is as
Speaker 1: a level of learned misogyny and trauma mixed into one.
Speaker 1: Does that mean it's an excuse for his behavior. No.
Speaker 1: And the really alarming thing is this all happened after
Speaker 1: his years of therapy. This happened after he was celebrating
Speaker 1: how great his therapist was and how far he's come.
Speaker 1: That's the problem for me because he's pretty much saying
Speaker 1: like my therapist is the best here, I am a
Speaker 1: new person, while simultaneously treating his partner like this, So
Speaker 1: there's something that isn't adding up here.
Speaker 2: And also using all the therapy buzzwords as a weapon
Speaker 2: to further control and Brady went on. She went on
Speaker 2: to say, emotionally abusive partners do not necessarily mean that
Speaker 2: they are terrible people, and it quite often emerges from
Speaker 2: their own trauma. But at the same time, one has
Speaker 2: to keep in mind that it is not okay. The
Speaker 2: only other thing I wanted to add because there has
Speaker 2: been some really interesting tweets that have been happening off
Speaker 2: the back of this. As we said, everyone is talking
Speaker 2: about it now. Doctor Nicole Badera who's a psychologist, said
Speaker 2: she's been tweeting a lot about it, and she's been
Speaker 2: getting a lot of mixed replies from men who feel
Speaker 2: triggered by the fact that maybe it is holding a
Speaker 2: mirror up to their own behavior in the way that
Speaker 2: they are in their relationships. But this is what she
Speaker 2: wrote in my replies, I see a whole lot of entitled,
Speaker 2: jealous men who feel called out by this Jonahill discourse.
Speaker 2: And just so you all know, women are not required
Speaker 2: to live smaller lives because a boy is jealous. That
Speaker 2: is controlling and there is no nice way to be controlling.
Speaker 2: And the last one that I really enjoyed was this
Speaker 2: Twitter and it said, if your boyfriend says not to
Speaker 2: post that bikini pick, then you should ask him if
Speaker 2: that's the jonah Hill he wants to die on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's such a great parn I love a pun.
Speaker 1: That was good one boom, Yeah, like fuck off.
Speaker 2: If you are somebody who's been in a relationship where
Speaker 2: you have dated somebody who has controlled the things that
Speaker 2: you posted, controlled the things that you wore, tried to
Speaker 2: control your friendships or your relationships, it's so important to
Speaker 2: see these conversations had in mainstream media because they think
Speaker 2: it really holds a mirror up to how problematic this is,
Speaker 2: how misogynistic it is, and how manipulative it is in relationships.
Speaker 1: Also talk about it whenever the hell you want, the
Speaker 1: people that are coming for us, saying why would you
Speaker 1: bring this up two years later because she feels like
Speaker 1: talking about it two years later. This is her story
Speaker 1: to talk about it, and she can talk about it
Speaker 1: whenever she wants.
Speaker 2: All right, well it is time for accidentally unfiltered and
Speaker 2: now because he is a very innocent one. But the
Speaker 2: reason why I loved it is because it is just
Speaker 2: so unbelievably awkward that when I read it, I had
Speaker 2: a visceral reaction for this poor person.
Speaker 1: I love those ones, the ones that really make you
Speaker 1: feel like you're there, like you feel like you want
Speaker 1: to dig your own hole, or dig a hole for them.
Speaker 2: And bury yourself in it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Ever, Okay, I was at work and I had just
Speaker 2: had a somewhat very awkward conversation with my boss. We'd
Speaker 2: had a meeting and it had ended, and then we
Speaker 2: both had to do that walk, or you walk in
Speaker 2: the same direction but kind of separately towards your desk. Anyway,
Speaker 2: she'd stopped to speak to someone, and I decided that
Speaker 2: I needed to go to the bathroom, so I took
Speaker 2: a little detour and there I was in the toilet.
Speaker 2: So I was on the toilet doing my thing when
Speaker 2: I heard somebody else walk into the bathroom. I work
Speaker 2: in a massive office, but I just got a feeling
Speaker 2: that maybe it was my boss, and I didn't want
Speaker 2: to have to wash my hands in the basin and
Speaker 2: dry my hands and have another awkward meeting with her
Speaker 2: because the meeting we just had was bad enough. So
Speaker 2: before I left the cubicle, I ever so slightly and
Speaker 2: graciously just bent over and had a little glimpse underneath
Speaker 2: the cubicle. Nah wait, because I wanted to see if
Speaker 2: I could recognize her shoes that she was wearing underneath
Speaker 2: the toilet door, so then I could wait for her
Speaker 2: to leave. Here's where it gets bad. My boss was
Speaker 2: doing the exact same thing, because we made eye contact
Speaker 2: underneath the toilet door. Why what is wrong with you
Speaker 2: both while sitting on the toilet. I was so fucking
Speaker 2: mortified that I didn't leave the cubicle for a good
Speaker 2: ten minutes, and then we both just acted like nothing happened.
Speaker 2: Imagine making eye contact with your boss underneath the public
Speaker 2: toilet after just getting in trouble in a meeting.
Speaker 1: Why just do the old I'll flush the toilet first,
Speaker 1: like you know how you really aggressively like pull the
Speaker 1: toilet paper y, I'm wrapping like the meeting the toilet
Speaker 1: meeting is winding enough, the toilet paper's coming out the zip, Like,
Speaker 1: do the zip, do the buttons? You flush the toilet,
Speaker 1: you give it a second. It's normal worldwide toilet courtesy
Speaker 1: to give them that like one minute grace to get out.
Speaker 2: Just do that.
Speaker 1: Why did you both look under the duney?
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter who the It doesn't matter if it
Speaker 2: was your boss or not. No one is going to
Speaker 2: the basin and washing their hands at the same time.
Speaker 2: You wait. If someone's flushing, they have right away, you
Speaker 2: let them go.
Speaker 1: It is standard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you never have a bathroom collision ever. And you
Speaker 2: also never make eye contact with your boss underneath the
Speaker 2: cubicle door.
Speaker 1: Bro hot take, don't look under anyone's cubical door.
Speaker 2: All right, let's get into the chat with Sabina. Joining
Speaker 2: the podcast today is Sabina Read. Sabina is a psychologist,
Speaker 2: a speaker, and co host of the Human Cogs podcast,
Speaker 2: and today we're talking about something that I think so
Speaker 2: many of us have experienced at different points in our life,
Speaker 2: and that is purpose anxiety. Sabina, Welcome to Life on Cut.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: I reckon we.
Speaker 4: Would probably get almost a message of day Laura from
Speaker 4: people in our in our listeners, or people who follow
Speaker 4: us on social.
Speaker 1: Media at a bit of a crossroads where.
Speaker 4: They're kind of thinking, I don't really know if what
Speaker 4: I'm doing is what I'm supposed to be doing.
Speaker 1: All the other side of it.
Speaker 4: Is more I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing.
Speaker 4: I feel quite lost. And so it got us talking
Speaker 4: amongst ourselves about what this actually could be, and after
Speaker 4: doing a bit of googling, we found out that it
Speaker 4: was called purpose anxiety.
Speaker 1: So could you explain to us from.
Speaker 4: A psychologist's perspective, what is purpose anxiety?
Speaker 3: Where you can see I'm trackling away, because don't we
Speaker 3: have a label for everything. Clinically, there is no such
Speaker 3: thing as purpose anxiety. You're not going to find it
Speaker 3: in the DSM as a clinical diagnosis, But of course
Speaker 3: it is what it sounds like. It's this feeling of frustration, sadness, searching, wondering,
Speaker 3: uncertainty around am I doing or am I living the
Speaker 3: way that I think I should be? Is my life
Speaker 3: filled with purpose and meaning like I think it should be?
Speaker 3: And I think the word should there's pretty key because
Speaker 3: in a way I think this has become too overcooked
Speaker 3: for a lot of people. Of course, meaning and purpose
Speaker 3: has been a part of human behavior since the dawn
Speaker 3: of time. But this eternal search for it, or being
Speaker 3: able to articulate it so neatly and wrap it in
Speaker 3: a box tied in a bow, I think is probably
Speaker 3: doing us a disservice.
Speaker 2: How does someone know if they have spent too much
Speaker 2: time worrying about what their purpose is or allowing it
Speaker 2: to overtake too much of their happiness? I guess because
Speaker 2: we have been sort of fed this narrative that everybody
Speaker 2: has a purpose, and that you should be able to
Speaker 2: love your job, and you should be able to be
Speaker 2: so happy, and everything feels very aspirational, and when you're
Speaker 2: falling short of that in your own life, or even
Speaker 2: if you're young and you're at university and you're thinking, fuck,
Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing with myself.
Speaker 2: How does one know whether it's a normal amount of
Speaker 2: stress versus really kind of sitting into this category where
Speaker 2: they've kind of overcooked it.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 3: I think this idea that there's only one destination of purpose,
Speaker 3: one destination of meaning, is what's not helpful to me
Speaker 3: having a life with meaning and purpose means that we
Speaker 3: hit moments across the lifespan, small moments, big moments. But
Speaker 3: we don't have to build an orphanage. We don't have
Speaker 3: to save the whales, we don't have to invent the
Speaker 3: yellow sticky note. We find meaning and purpose in sometimes
Speaker 3: the smallest parts of our lives. And I think it's
Speaker 3: this search for the one eternal point of meaning that
Speaker 3: is what trips us up. So we may find that
Speaker 3: we have a moment of meaning when we have an
Speaker 3: exchange with another human who we never see again, who
Speaker 3: we don't know. We may find that we have time
Speaker 3: of meaning and purpose when we have an exchange with
Speaker 3: our child or a colleague. To me, actually, if I
Speaker 3: had to define what really bolsters meaning in our life,
Speaker 3: it's impacting the life of another human. And that doesn't
Speaker 3: mean thousands of other humans on mass We don't need
Speaker 3: to be a motivational speaker with millions of followers. The
Speaker 3: fact that at one point in our day we've impacted
Speaker 3: someone else's life is meaningful. If you ask any human
Speaker 3: what is meaningful in your life? Someone who's searching, someone
Speaker 3: who may be experiencing purpose anxiety, what's the purpose in
Speaker 3: your life? Usually people who are able to articulate form
Speaker 3: of purpose telling us that they've impacted or touched or
Speaker 3: connected with another human in some way, even for that
Speaker 3: little moment in time. And I think we have this
Speaker 3: idea that there's one perfect job for us, that there's
Speaker 3: one perfect soulmate for us, that one house is going
Speaker 3: to be the house that feels our heart and feels
Speaker 3: like home. And I think that's unhelpful as well, And
Speaker 3: rightly or wrongly, I think there are thousands of partners
Speaker 3: that could make great partners for each of us. And
Speaker 3: by great I mean probably partners that hold a mirror
Speaker 3: to us. I think there's multiple jobs that would show us.
Speaker 3: It's why a career change is not uncommon and why
Speaker 3: we move jobs. So I think if we think that
Speaker 3: meaning and purpose is a destination, we've got it wrong.
Speaker 3: I think it's really the journey that we're on that
Speaker 3: is peppered with moments of purpose and meaning.
Speaker 4: What does it look like if someone's listening to this
Speaker 4: right now, thinking oh, some of this is kind of
Speaker 4: ringing a bit true to me. But what does it
Speaker 4: look like or does it vary depending on the person
Speaker 4: and what it is that you think they're trying to
Speaker 4: find purpose in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you alluded to it earlier, Kesha, that
Speaker 3: we either have this idea. It kind of comes in
Speaker 3: two forms. It's either I don't have the purpose that
Speaker 3: I desire in my life. That's part one. Part two
Speaker 3: might be that I do have a sense of what
Speaker 3: brings me purpose or what I'm here to do, if
Speaker 3: you like, but I don't know how to put it
Speaker 3: into action. So both of those can be I guess
Speaker 3: in invitation to explore further, you're asking what does it
Speaker 3: actually look like? What does it feel like? I mean,
Speaker 3: it's just this sense of disease, I would call it.
Speaker 3: We're comparing ourselves to others. We're feeling lost, We're feeling uncertain.
Speaker 3: We might feel apathetic. We might feel a paralysis for
Speaker 3: some people, like a stuckness, like I don't know what
Speaker 3: to do next. So those are probably some of the feelings.
Speaker 3: We might feel anxious, we might feel depressed. But this
Speaker 3: is why it's important to note that this is not
Speaker 3: a clinical diagnosis, because a lot of those emotions we
Speaker 3: feel throughout life for a whole host of reasons, and
Speaker 3: they're not all because they're a clinical diagnosis. They are emotions.
Speaker 3: Emotions are an invitation to explore and perhaps an invitation
Speaker 3: to do things differently, not a red flag that the
Speaker 3: world's gone to ship.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it's interesting, isn't it, because so many people,
Speaker 2: and I think for myself when I've had moments of
Speaker 2: this in my life, and They've come at different stages
Speaker 2: of life too, when I've had big change, whether it's
Speaker 2: been I know we touched on earlier university, but I
Speaker 2: also had it when I became a mum. Do you
Speaker 2: think as well for people who experience this, that it
Speaker 2: comes from comparison, And I think increasingly so we have
Speaker 2: so much access to people's lives, We have so much
Speaker 2: access to comparison.
Speaker 3: Of course, we all know social media, and there are
Speaker 3: the forces in the world that men that were always
Speaker 3: continual in comparing ourselves with other people. But Laura, I
Speaker 3: think what you said earlier is really important, and that's
Speaker 3: that our meaning and purpose looks different across the lifespan.
Speaker 3: And if you ask a twenty two year old what
Speaker 3: is meaningful or purposeful in your life, you'll get a
Speaker 3: very different answer than if you ask a fifty two
Speaker 3: year old or an eighty two year old or one
Speaker 3: hundred and two year old. There's probably something we can
Speaker 3: learn from that in some ways. You know, I love
Speaker 3: the work of Ronnie Ware, who's the palliative care nurse
Speaker 3: who talked about the five Regrets of the dying. So
Speaker 3: she sat with people who were dying and listened to
Speaker 3: their main regrets. And I think there's some lessons in
Speaker 3: those regrets because those are people who are at the
Speaker 3: end of their life. And no one, not one of
Speaker 3: those five top regrets was I wish I had more
Speaker 3: purpose in my life. What they were talking about, perhaps
Speaker 3: is I wish I had spent more time with the
Speaker 3: people that I love, or I wish I allowed myself
Speaker 3: to be happier. That was another one of the top
Speaker 3: five regrets. But of course, if you ask someone in
Speaker 3: their twenties or younger years, they may express purpose as
Speaker 3: perhaps linked to their job. Looking for a job. What
Speaker 3: should I be doing? I don't know what I should
Speaker 3: be doing. I don't have a career, I don't have
Speaker 3: a passion, so I feel purposeless. And so I think
Speaker 3: the fact that our purpose and connection to purpose changes
Speaker 3: across the life span indicates again that there's not one
Speaker 3: ideal place of arrival the constitutes purpose or a purposeful life.
Speaker 4: Something I've heard Laura and Britt speak about a lot
Speaker 4: on the podcast with a variety of guests over the
Speaker 4: years is like the happiness trap, that idea of thinking
Speaker 4: that your happiness is at a particular destination, and how
Speaker 4: often if you kind of reach that point, you can go, oh,
Speaker 4: fuck this did this actually doesn't feel like what I
Speaker 4: thought it was going to feel like.
Speaker 2: Or it makes you happy for that little bit, and
Speaker 2: then you get accustomed to that new thing and then
Speaker 2: you need more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the goal shift, that kind of thing.
Speaker 4: But I guess the other side of it is, I mean,
Speaker 4: I would consider myself quite a driven person, particularly in
Speaker 4: my career for the past you know, ten years, and
Speaker 4: I guess having that sense of purpose has made me
Speaker 4: feel a sense of worthiness and a sense of validation.
Speaker 4: And maybe not always from the right sources of validation,
Speaker 4: but it definitely has brought me a sense of validation.
Speaker 4: What are the positive aspects of feeling a sense of
Speaker 4: purpose or maybe even achieving that sense of purpose.
Speaker 3: I'd like to say two things on that casion of
Speaker 3: why is let's talk about what well being looks like.
Speaker 3: Well being to me, the model that I refer to
Speaker 3: all the time. The perman model of wellban has five
Speaker 3: factors to it. Meaning and purpose is one of those
Speaker 3: five factors of well being. But in addition to those
Speaker 3: is achievement. You've just talked about achievements. So in order
Speaker 3: to live a life filled with well being and to
Speaker 3: be a well being, like in the case of being
Speaker 3: a noun, a well human, a wellbeing, we need to
Speaker 3: have a sense of accomplishment and achievement that I set
Speaker 3: goals and I meet goals. I set goals and I
Speaker 3: meet goals. Plus, we need this idea that we're connected
Speaker 3: to something bigger than ourselves. Really, that's what meaning and
Speaker 3: purpose is. That's how I would define meaning and purpose.
Speaker 3: In addition to those two, to live a life with
Speaker 3: well being, we need to feel a sense of positive
Speaker 3: emotions that might be lightness, humor, connection, joy. We need
Speaker 3: to also feel a sense of engagement in what we do.
Speaker 3: And one of the ways we feel a sense of
Speaker 3: engagement is to tap into our natural strengths. Our natural
Speaker 3: strengths are the things that we were probably doing when
Speaker 3: we were four or five or ten years old. No
Speaker 3: one was teaching us to do them. They were a
Speaker 3: part of who we are, and if we let go
Speaker 3: of those natural strengths in our adult lives, our sense
Speaker 3: of well being is going to deteriorate. And the fifth
Speaker 3: ingrediental factor of well being is relational, so our connection
Speaker 3: with other humans, whether it's an intimate one on one
Speaker 3: relationship or friendships, or family or colleagues. So I think
Speaker 3: it's relevant that you asked about achievement because achievement is
Speaker 3: very much tied into a well being, but not necessarily
Speaker 3: as directly correlated. I would say to meaning and purpose
Speaker 3: and the second thing I wanted to say about that
Speaker 3: you were talking then I think about extrinsic drivers. Of course,
Speaker 3: an extrinsic driver is when you are validated by something
Speaker 3: outside of yourself and by someone else. Usually so someone
Speaker 3: says great job, someone says I want to give you
Speaker 3: a pay rise, someone says you really nailed that. Then
Speaker 3: we feel better about ourselves and there's nothing wrong with
Speaker 3: it extrinsic validation. But we also need to look for
Speaker 3: intrinsic drivers as well that come from within. Why did
Speaker 3: that feel good to you? Because you learned, or you grew,
Speaker 3: or you impacted someone else, or you overcame a challenge
Speaker 3: that you didn't think you could. Those are intrinsic drivers,
Speaker 3: and I think their scope for both.
Speaker 2: Do you think it also comes down to like, it's
Speaker 2: slightly privileged to be able to have so much time
Speaker 2: to think about purpose.
Speaker 3: So for fear of sounding like a psychologist, because I'm
Speaker 3: throwing a few theories your way, but it just I'm
Speaker 3: throwing the theories in to say I haven't made this
Speaker 3: shit up.
Speaker 2: That's why we have you on. We can talk about
Speaker 2: this stuff. Did the Cows Come Home? But better that
Speaker 2: you do it?
Speaker 3: No, Well, I like doing it with you. And I
Speaker 3: don't have a theory for everything, and I certainly don't
Speaker 3: have all the answers, but you're talking about some topics
Speaker 3: that I'm pretty passionate about. So another theory that I
Speaker 3: think is really relevant here Abraham Maslow, who was a
Speaker 3: psychologist in the nineteen forties. So we're talking, you know,
Speaker 3: eighty years ago. Many of your listeners will be familiar with,
Speaker 3: if not by name, his hierarchy of needs. And he
Speaker 3: proposed eighty years ago that it's kind of a linear
Speaker 3: sequential meeting of needs or hierarchy of needs. So first
Speaker 3: of all, we need the most basic needs met. That's shelter,
Speaker 3: that's food. Sex is in that very basic physiological needs.
Speaker 3: I think what he was getting to there was to
Speaker 3: pro create is a basic need, and then he went
Speaker 3: on to talk about more needs of safety and security
Speaker 3: and employment, and then upper guys up the hierarchy. Relational
Speaker 3: needs come next, and at the top is what he
Speaker 3: called self actualization, which is really what we're talking about today.
Speaker 3: And if you are worrying about where you're going to
Speaker 3: sleep tonight, not who you're going to sleep with, but
Speaker 3: where you're going to sleep tonight or what meal you're
Speaker 3: going to have, then you're not going to be thinking
Speaker 3: how can I live my best life? And what is
Speaker 3: my purpose? So there is something about meeting these most
Speaker 3: basic needs first. But I don't think this is just
Speaker 3: due to the fact that our lives are automated and
Speaker 3: you know, there's a lot of technological advances. Because since
Speaker 3: the dawn of time, I mean, reeks were looking for
Speaker 3: what the meaning of love? Aristotle was asking these questions.
Speaker 3: So I think we're all been asking these questions forever.
Speaker 3: It's part of the human condition to be trying to
Speaker 3: make sense of why am I here and what's my
Speaker 3: purpose and what's my meaning. I think the other thing
Speaker 3: that's important here is that even if you are struggling
Speaker 3: with some of those more basic needs, you can create
Speaker 3: a sense of meaning and purpose if, like we talked
Speaker 3: about earlier, you think about how you will impact the
Speaker 3: life of another. So even if you have no money
Speaker 3: to support anyone else to donate money, you have a
Speaker 3: smile that you can offer other people. You have a
Speaker 3: voice that you can say to someone, how are you
Speaker 3: going today? Every one of us can do that, and
Speaker 3: through those small exchanges, I think we do create a
Speaker 3: sense of meaning and purpose, and I think we overlook those.
Speaker 3: We look for these big, bright sparks where people are
Speaker 3: applauded and really seeing for what they've done that's created
Speaker 3: meaning and purpose. But we all have the capacity to
Speaker 3: create meaning and purpose or to impact someone else's life,
Speaker 3: which creates meaning in our own life. And we can
Speaker 3: break it down. You were talking about careers. I don't
Speaker 3: know if you're familiar with the idea of job crafting,
Speaker 3: but job crafting is the sense that even in the
Speaker 3: job that you have, you might not want to be
Speaker 3: the CEO, you might not want to be the top
Speaker 3: of the tree. You might not be really driven or
Speaker 3: really motivated. One of my favorite stories that came about
Speaker 3: through the research in job crafting was when they researched
Speaker 3: some cleaners in a hospital setting and they were asked,
Speaker 3: what is the point of your role? What do you
Speaker 3: do in the hospital? And some of those cleaners, of
Speaker 3: course said well, I just mopped the floor, and I
Speaker 3: wipe the bench and I disinfect her. But others took
Speaker 3: it upon themselves. They even use language like I forget
Speaker 3: what it was, but someone like I'm a human connection
Speaker 3: officer or something. I don't know what the words were.
Speaker 3: But what they had done in the job that they
Speaker 3: held as a hospital cleaner was to take it upon
Speaker 3: themselves to move artwork around in the woods so that
Speaker 3: a lot of the patients to a bed ridden got
Speaker 3: to see different art from their beds. They took it
Speaker 3: upon themselves to walk visitors to and from the car park.
Speaker 3: They were the hospital cleanness, but in their job they
Speaker 3: found a way to impact the life of others, and
Speaker 3: through doing that, they created meaning and purpose for themselves.
Speaker 3: They didn't want to be the CEO of the hospital.
Speaker 3: They wanted to make sure that what they were doing
Speaker 3: had meaning and purpose.
Speaker 2: To others in the terms and the ways that you're
Speaker 2: speaking about purpose and how it comes from this connection
Speaker 2: with people. But if I was to have someone say, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm lacking purpose in my life, initially, my
Speaker 2: very first thought would have been job. And I say
Speaker 2: that because they think that there's this real drive at
Speaker 2: the moment to own your own business, to be an entrepreneur,
Speaker 2: to you know, have something I don't know, whatever, have
Speaker 2: an Etsy store, whatever it is. There's always got to
Speaker 2: be something that's the side hustle to the main job,
Speaker 2: and that if you're doing a nine to five job
Speaker 2: that you don't love, you must be settling and then
Speaker 2: therefore your life is a bit purposeless. Do you think
Speaker 2: we sometimes place too much important on a very specific,
Speaker 2: stylized type of living life out in terms of career ambitions.
Speaker 3: Yes, I do, Laura, and I think so many jobs
Speaker 3: and what you just described is out there in social media,
Speaker 3: so everyone's showing you at their side hustle looks like,
Speaker 3: and they're showing you how much fun it is and
Speaker 3: how they look in the process. I think employment is
Speaker 3: really important. I mean research tells us that when people
Speaker 3: aren't working, who have been working, or they take time
Speaker 3: off either to look after their physical health or mental health,
Speaker 3: orerhaps they've lost their job or they are needing to
Speaker 3: care for someone else, that there is a dip in
Speaker 3: purpose in our lives. So sometimes I think we avoid
Speaker 3: work when we're really feeling fragile, or perhaps it's not
Speaker 3: by choice either. And the research is telling us that
Speaker 3: being engaged in employment brings a sense of meaning and purpose,
Speaker 3: and I think the hospital story kind of highlights that.
Speaker 3: But perhaps, yes, we do have too much emphasis on
Speaker 3: finding one love of your life, the soulmate, the one
Speaker 3: person that walks this earth that was made for you.
Speaker 3: If you have that idea in your personal relationships or
Speaker 3: you have that idea in your job, I think some
Speaker 3: of us who hold on to that idea will be disappointed.
Speaker 3: That doesn't mean that the relationship that you're in that
Speaker 3: fills you up isn't wonderful. It doesn't mean that if
Speaker 3: you're in a job that is full of meaning and
Speaker 3: purpose and growth and impact and development, but that's not wonderful.
Speaker 3: It's not the only place you can feel that, And
Speaker 3: it's not with only that person that you can feel that.
Speaker 3: And when we believe it is, and then we don't
Speaker 3: get there, we don't grasp it. We fell out, We've failed.
Speaker 4: You know, there's a story that my grandma told me.
Speaker 4: It was when I was about to go to university.
Speaker 4: And she grew up a pretty working class in a
Speaker 4: small country town in the north of England and she
Speaker 4: moved over to Australia about sixty years ago now. But
Speaker 4: she when she moved over here, you know, she had
Speaker 4: two children and she raised them and then when they
Speaker 4: were in high school she started her job in retail
Speaker 4: at what was called Great Brothers then it's now Maya.
Speaker 4: But I remember her kind of taking my hand as
Speaker 4: I was about to go to UNI, and she just
Speaker 4: said to me something along the lines of like, I
Speaker 4: want you to.
Speaker 1: Grasp how lucky you are to be able to go
Speaker 1: and get this education, because I would have done anything
Speaker 1: to have an education, like I would have done anything
Speaker 1: to be able to go to university.
Speaker 4: So I guess it can be a bit of a
Speaker 4: double edged sword, though, And I'm interested to know your
Speaker 4: thoughts on whether the opportunity to be able to do
Speaker 4: whatever we want has overwhelmed us, you know, has it
Speaker 4: given us too many options?
Speaker 2: Almost?
Speaker 3: I don't think, I mean it's a beautiful story, and
Speaker 3: it's a good reminder of the lessons that you've gleaned
Speaker 3: from your grandmother. I don't think we do our kids,
Speaker 3: or the next generation, or anyone a service when we
Speaker 3: tell them you can do anything, the world's your oyster,
Speaker 3: you can be whatever you want to be, because that's overwhelming.
Speaker 3: If a child internalizes that, literally, many children unconsciously will
Speaker 3: think what happens if I don't what MS if I
Speaker 3: can't what ams if I don't deliver that? And I
Speaker 3: think we've seen a real rise in anxiety, not due
Speaker 3: to that topic per se, but to that sense of
Speaker 3: overwhelm and needing to deliver and not knowing how So,
Speaker 3: of course we want to support our children, and every
Speaker 3: well meeting parent, everyone who's ever said you can be
Speaker 3: whatever you want to be has said it from a
Speaker 3: well meaning place. But I think it would be better
Speaker 3: for parents or teachers, or educators or friends or community
Speaker 3: members to ask some of the questions instead of what
Speaker 3: do you want to be? What do you want to feel?
Speaker 3: How do you want to feel in your life? Not
Speaker 3: what do you want to be? And through those feelings,
Speaker 3: through that exploration, through understanding what energizes you and how
Speaker 3: you impact others and how you would like to spend
Speaker 3: your time. You may come to a place of understanding
Speaker 3: the way that you want to be employed. Now I
Speaker 3: don't have stars in my eyes. You're right, there's a
Speaker 3: level of privilege by having the choice. That's again why
Speaker 3: I go back to the hospital cleaner story. That's not
Speaker 3: a glamorous job. It's not a high paying job. But
Speaker 3: some of the happiest people, some of the most fulfilled people,
Speaker 3: some of the people that have the greatest depth of
Speaker 3: meaning and purpose in their life, are not doing big,
Speaker 3: glamorous things. And I think we need to head that reminder.
Speaker 3: It's not the big accolades that bring a sense of
Speaker 3: meaning and purpose for everyone. For me, I've got a
Speaker 3: real portfolio career. I mean I speak, and I write,
Speaker 3: and I pod and counsel, idio media, radio, TV. What
Speaker 3: I love about that is the diversity and the challenges
Speaker 3: and the growth and the connection with other people. That's
Speaker 3: what I love about it. If I was doing the
Speaker 3: same thing every day, that wouldn't work for me, but
Speaker 3: it will work for someone else. So instead of pretending
Speaker 3: that there's a right way or a wrong way, it's
Speaker 3: what parts of your day? How do you want to
Speaker 3: spend your day? And it kind of goes back to
Speaker 3: well what lit you up? A good question to ask
Speaker 3: is when I was a child, what lit me up?
Speaker 3: Another good question to us now is what do I
Speaker 3: spend most of my time talking about with my friends?
Speaker 3: These are good questions for people who are thinking what
Speaker 3: the fuck is my perpose? Similar so, what do you
Speaker 3: spend your time talking about with your mates? What did
Speaker 3: you do as a young child by choice? Not because
Speaker 3: someone was telling you you're a good boy or a
Speaker 3: good girl for doing it, but because it's how you
Speaker 3: chose to naturally spend your time. When do you feel
Speaker 3: most energized? Not at work, not at home, not with it,
Speaker 3: but just when? What are you doing when you're feeling energized?
Speaker 3: It's questions not those that help us tap into what
Speaker 3: we are naturally connected to, and when we have a
Speaker 3: natural connection to it, we're probably going to feel some
Speaker 3: level of meaning and purpose around it.
Speaker 2: How profound is our blueprint as a child? I mean
Speaker 2: I would have thought the things that I did as
Speaker 2: a kid probably don't have that much impact on me.
Speaker 2: But even as you said it, I was like It's
Speaker 2: so interesting to me because the things I used to
Speaker 2: do as a kid is I used to entertain I
Speaker 2: used to do little concerts for my family, and now
Speaker 2: I work in entertainment. And you know, it surprises me
Speaker 2: just how much when you said that that that actually
Speaker 2: was the stuff that I did as a child. I
Speaker 2: was super creative, and I wonder if that's the case
Speaker 2: for everyone. The things that we love now as adults
Speaker 2: are truly were always there.
Speaker 3: You said, how big a blueprint is our childhood are that?
Speaker 3: You said, it's mind blowing how big it is. We're
Speaker 3: so influenced by our young gy years the way, not
Speaker 3: just we're talking about career and meaning and purpose now,
Speaker 3: but we could talk about our relationship with money, our
Speaker 3: relationship to love, our relationship to conflict, to anger, to avoidance,
Speaker 3: to fame, anything. We learned so much in our younger years,
Speaker 3: consciously and unconsciously, and we seek to bring the best
Speaker 3: parts with us, but of course we don't because we're
Speaker 3: a flawed spacis. So we often bring some of those
Speaker 3: things that happened served us well as kids, and we
Speaker 3: repeat them. I often talk about repeat versus repel, and
Speaker 3: we repeat and repel patterns and learnings through the generations,
Speaker 3: sometimes consciously sometimes unconsciously. So we might say, well, in
Speaker 3: our home, we were really driven and education was highly regarded,
Speaker 3: and I want that for my children. That's a repeat.
Speaker 3: But we could also say there was so much emphasis
Speaker 3: placed on education in my childhood, and I want my
Speaker 3: children just to have the freedom to explore without that
Speaker 3: lens or that pressure put on them. That's a repel.
Speaker 3: Then you marry someone else who's doing their own repeat
Speaker 3: and repels, and they've got a repeat repel. Kind of clusterfuck, really,
Speaker 3: because everyone's pushing and billing between where they came from,
Speaker 3: what they want, where person B came from, and what
Speaker 3: they want and welcome to married life.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people in their kids or
Speaker 2: as they're growing up, they ignore those parts of themselves
Speaker 2: that they loved as a child because maybe they weren't encouraged,
Speaker 2: or maybe they were told that they weren't things that
Speaker 2: could turn into a career. I know for me, we
Speaker 2: found all my report cards from when I was a kid,
Speaker 2: and I was always in trouble for talking too much.
Speaker 2: I was always in trouble for distracting people. Now you
Speaker 2: get paid to people pay me to distract them. But
Speaker 2: the thing is is, for me, it was always talked
Speaker 2: about as a negative. It was something that I felt
Speaker 2: shameful of that I couldn't concentrate enough. I would always
Speaker 2: distract other people. And so I guess this is probably
Speaker 2: the first time that I've thought about it. It was
Speaker 2: a joy for me, like I love talking, and I'm
Speaker 2: sure it was very annoying to a lot of people,
Speaker 2: but it was truly something that I loved.
Speaker 3: So I think one of the things you're tapping into
Speaker 3: there is that sometimes we're criticized for being USh. Often
Speaker 3: we're criticized over the years for being us, And so
Speaker 3: if you want to get deep from a psychological perspective,
Speaker 3: I would say that we have what is the little
Speaker 3: child in all of us is learning to cope in
Speaker 3: the world. And one of the things we look for
Speaker 3: is to be praised and loved and seen to be safe,
Speaker 3: because if our can givers don't love us, w's for it.
Speaker 3: So we're learning all the time how to please, how
Speaker 3: to do what's required, how to do what's expected of us.
Speaker 3: That's what I would call the adaptive child. They've adapted
Speaker 3: to the environment in order to survive. The wounded child
Speaker 3: is that time in your life when thets of you
Speaker 3: that are the natural parts of you are not seen,
Speaker 3: not accepted, not celebrated. So there's a hurt there around that,
Speaker 3: and the adaptive child comes along and says, let's adapt
Speaker 3: somehow so that we can get on in this life.
Speaker 3: This is a really normal, natural experience for me, every
Speaker 3: young person, I would say, every child. But it's what
Speaker 3: we do with that wounded child and that adaptive child
Speaker 3: as adults. What parts of those do we bring and
Speaker 3: replicate and what parts do we realize we can leave behind.
Speaker 3: Thank you, adapted child for keeping me safe when I
Speaker 3: don't need that now. So thank you for keeping me
Speaker 3: safe by telling me at school to shut up, because
Speaker 3: that's what the teachers were doing. That's kept me safe
Speaker 3: in that time. But I don't need to do that now.
Speaker 3: I don't need to adapt anymore. I can go back
Speaker 3: to the natural, organic, authentic me before I became the
Speaker 3: wounded child, before I became the adaptive child, to get
Speaker 3: on in life. Is that too deep?
Speaker 2: No, I think it's perfect. And I'm also glad that
Speaker 2: you mentioned you know, it can be something that you
Speaker 2: carry throughout your life. Because I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people get into relationships they feel like they have to
Speaker 2: bend and flex and be different and dull certain parts
Speaker 2: of their personality to appease the person that they've chosen
Speaker 2: to be in a relationship with. And these are things
Speaker 2: that we do as kids and the things that we
Speaker 2: continue to do as adults. It's not that we become
Speaker 2: adults and it just all of a sudden, Oh, we're
Speaker 2: allowed to be or able to be the most authentic
Speaker 2: version of ourselves. I think a lot of us still
Speaker 2: feel like they have to kind of shape shift or
Speaker 2: be a bit of a chameleon in certain environments.
Speaker 3: Of course we do, and sometimes we do. Sometimes we
Speaker 3: just have to edit just to do the right thing
Speaker 3: wherever we are. But if we continue to do that,
Speaker 3: no wonder we have the levels of anxiety and depression
Speaker 3: we have because we're gagging ourselves. We're pretending to be
Speaker 3: someone we're not. We're seeking validation, approval, acceptance, and love
Speaker 3: where we're not really showing the world who we are.
Speaker 4: How much can what we are naturally good are and
Speaker 4: what we really want to do in life? And feeling
Speaker 4: a sense of purpose be impacted by your responsibilities both
Speaker 4: of you are mothers, and I assume that not only
Speaker 4: do you get a sense of purpose when you have
Speaker 4: a child, and that's to raise a good kid and whatnot,
Speaker 4: but both of you are career women. Did you ever
Speaker 4: feel the need to kind of suppress your desire to
Speaker 4: feel a sense of purpose in your career because you
Speaker 4: had a bigger responsibility at the time.
Speaker 3: If I give everything to my children, I can't give
Speaker 3: anything to myself. I can't explore a career. I can't
Speaker 3: feel good about whooping it up outside the home, whether
Speaker 3: that's personally or professionally or socially, because I've made a
Speaker 3: decision to give fully and holy to my children. And then,
Speaker 3: not surprisingly, when that happens, you're like, oh, I want
Speaker 3: to do this all the time. This is not bringing
Speaker 3: me what I thought it would. I've always wanted to
Speaker 3: do other things alongside parenthood. And now, in the fullness
Speaker 3: of time, I'm in a different stage of life to you,
Speaker 3: and I'm entering the empty nest sort of years my kids.
Speaker 3: I've got two daughters who are twenty two and twenty,
Speaker 3: and I've got some peers and friends and people my
Speaker 3: age who I observe have been fully engage with their children,
Speaker 3: but their children are leaving now, and so talking at
Speaker 3: this is relevant to the conversation we're having today around
Speaker 3: meaning and purpose across the lifespan. If your meaning and
Speaker 3: purpose is fully and solely defined by your parenting role,
Speaker 3: of course you're always a parent, but you're not hands
Speaker 3: on when your kids are adults. So what them do
Speaker 3: your meaning and purpose? So I would hope that we're
Speaker 3: able to give ourselves the grace, give each other the grace,
Speaker 3: and woman to woman and man to man, parent to parent,
Speaker 3: human to human, give ourselves the grace to acknowledge that
Speaker 3: we're made up of parts and all of these conflicting
Speaker 3: parts need different things. But to pretend we don't have
Speaker 3: these parts again, it's I think a big contributing fact.
Speaker 3: I'm getting quite philosophical my soapbots now. But to why
Speaker 3: we see anxiety and depression in the rates that we do.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, we cover more that I even thought
Speaker 2: we would in terms of this conversation, and I do
Speaker 2: think that's so much of this. When we first started
Speaker 2: looking into it, we were like, oh, yeah, university students,
Speaker 2: they're the ones who really feel like they you know,
Speaker 2: when you had that period of life where you finish
Speaker 2: school and you're not sure that. As we've established, it's
Speaker 2: something that people experience at all different points of life,
Speaker 2: at all big transitions, and I think it's something that
Speaker 2: we won't stop experiencing for as long as there is
Speaker 2: big change that happens, which there.
Speaker 3: Always will be. So we have to lean in, we
Speaker 3: have to be curious. We have to bring acceptance and
Speaker 3: surrender and hope and purpose and movement and action instead
Speaker 3: of thinking what the fuck's happening? Now?
Speaker 1: That's what I love every single day, you know.
Speaker 4: I think that there was a I'm so terrible for
Speaker 4: saying this because it's a quote that I'm going to
Speaker 4: have to paraphrase at best because I can't remember the
Speaker 4: actual words of it, and I don't even remember who
Speaker 4: it was from.
Speaker 2: That's great, he's just going to butcher this completely. Let's
Speaker 2: put it at the end of the PODT.
Speaker 4: It went along the lines of like, people won't remember
Speaker 4: what you earned, they won't remember what you wore, but
Speaker 4: they will remember the way that you made them feel.
Speaker 4: And I think that.
Speaker 2: Putton, you're not quite on it almost.
Speaker 3: Because you nailed the sentiment that people remember how you
Speaker 3: make them feel, not what you say, not what you
Speaker 3: look like, not what you do. I reckon the takeaway,
Speaker 3: it's not just connection, it's what's something bigger than yourself.
Speaker 3: Something bigger than yourself is how we carve out meaning
Speaker 3: and purpose. And I think something bigger than yourself is
Speaker 3: nearly always the way you impact others. So connection infers
Speaker 3: that we've actually had an exchange and we've connected, but
Speaker 3: we can impact others who we haven't connected with. So
Speaker 3: that's why I'm splitting hairs on that one. Even though
Speaker 3: you had a ripper quote that a river half.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, we never finished an episode without our
Speaker 1: sucking our sweet the highlight and the low light of
Speaker 1: the week. I will kick it off. I actually had
Speaker 1: a few to chew from this week, which doesn't happen often.
Speaker 1: Usually I'm scrambling, but there the.
Speaker 2: Sucks are for sweets. You're like, my life is so neutral,
Speaker 2: nothing good or bad happens, you see.
Speaker 1: I'm just platoing, like I'm just cruising along. No, my
Speaker 1: suck's actually so dumb and no one's ever gonna know.
Speaker 1: Like she's not gonna know. But I forgot a birthday
Speaker 1: this week, who's a very important person delight. Delilah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: on the fourth of July, and I should remember because
Speaker 1: it's such a like the fourth of July she turned
Speaker 1: two years old and I forgot it. But she doesn't
Speaker 1: know because she's on holiday with my parents, so she
Speaker 1: doesn't know I forgot the birthday. She also doesn't know
Speaker 1: because she's a dog. There's that as well.
Speaker 2: Do she realize that she's been shafted off to her parents?
Speaker 2: At your parents' house, she's.
Speaker 1: Having the time of a life. She's on a beach
Speaker 1: vacations up in Port Macquarry. There's two other dogs to
Speaker 1: play with. They get videos that She's not gonna want
Speaker 1: to come home. She is going to hate me. But
Speaker 1: I got a message yesterday from producer Keisha middle of
Speaker 1: the night. Oh my god, I forgot Delilah's birthday. She
Speaker 1: said that, and I was like, it's okay, I forgot
Speaker 1: it too. Let's not let's let's agree to not tell Delilah.
Speaker 1: So I guess I made a packet. Delia will never know.
Speaker 2: Are you gonna be okay? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Hopefully.
Speaker 2: It's pretty bad to forget your own child's birthday, Like
Speaker 2: if I just forgot Molly's birthday entirely. I think I
Speaker 2: should feel pretty bad for that.
Speaker 1: And my sweet for the week is also everyone's gonna
Speaker 1: hate me because it's so stupid as well. But my
Speaker 1: sweet is all the moms are gonna hate me because
Speaker 1: I don't have Delilah, who is like my child I've
Speaker 1: been sleeping in.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: I know you're all gonna laugh because it's not a
Speaker 1: real child. But I also have to get up early
Speaker 1: to take her outside.
Speaker 2: Oh that's a legitimate she wakes up so early totally
Speaker 2: like he walks straight away.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's like the real, real, low like
Speaker 1: entry level to what maybe maybe one percent of having
Speaker 1: a child is like, because I do have to wake
Speaker 1: up super early so she can go and empty a
Speaker 1: bladder because I don't have a dog it or because
Speaker 1: I live in a Bondae apartment.
Speaker 2: And you do sometimes breastfeed her, so that's sometimes the breastfeers.
Speaker 1: She really needs to fuck you. What's your suck?
Speaker 4: All right?
Speaker 2: My suck for the week, I mean, apart from getting
Speaker 2: my period day fucking one of my what do we
Speaker 2: call it again? The period? Blood flood, honeymoon.
Speaker 5: Blood flood, blood flood hashtag honeymoon blood flood gate.
Speaker 2: Okay, that was my main suck. I genuinely don't have
Speaker 2: a very big suck this week because it was such
Speaker 2: an amazing week with my family in Fiji. I had
Speaker 2: such a beautiful time, and it was also Matt's birthday,
Speaker 2: So I'm going to say that my sweet for the
Speaker 2: week was Matt's birthday, which was the sixth of July,
Speaker 2: two days after Delilah's. Didn't forget it, and we got
Speaker 2: to go snorkeling, and the thing that was so beautiful.
Speaker 2: So the place that we stayed at in Fiji was
Speaker 2: the same place that we stayed at for our baby moon,
Speaker 2: and it's where Matt proposed. So the last time I
Speaker 2: was there, I was seven months pregnant. We went snorkeling
Speaker 2: and kind of did all the things that we did
Speaker 2: this time, except it was so beautiful to revisit it
Speaker 2: reflect on the fact that life has changed so much
Speaker 2: in the past four years. But something that was really
Speaker 2: special and completely has nothing to do with my family
Speaker 2: is we went snorkeling along the reef there four years
Speaker 2: ago and the reef was almost completely white wall like,
Speaker 2: it was really badly affected by coral bleaching and over
Speaker 2: the past four years, something amazing has happened in that
Speaker 2: area and so much of the coral reef has actually
Speaker 2: come back to life. And so we went snorkeling in
Speaker 2: that same area and it was incredible to see just
Speaker 2: how beautiful, bright and colorful it was, which.
Speaker 1: So cool not only to see like how far you
Speaker 1: guys have come as a couple, but how far the
Speaker 1: reef has come in that time.
Speaker 2: You truly we've all made so many changes for the best.
Speaker 1: No, that is in all seriousness, that's amazing, because we
Speaker 1: are close to losing a lot of the natural wonders
Speaker 1: and a lot of the reef, especially in Australia.
Speaker 2: Well it shat all over the Great Barrier reef, Like
Speaker 2: I mean, I've done snorkeling and with a Great Bearrier
Speaker 2: reef like beautiful. Yes, sure, but this was phenomenal and
Speaker 2: it was such a nice day. We put the kids
Speaker 2: into kids clad and we Matt and I went and
Speaker 2: had a little cute day together as a couple, just
Speaker 2: the two of us, and it was so much. That
Speaker 2: was my sweet for the week.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like because before you left you had
Speaker 1: made a comment on the podcast and said, you know,
Speaker 1: like you really needed to connect, reconnect with Matt. Do
Speaker 1: you feel like you got what you came for or
Speaker 1: did he spend too much time doing laps underwater?
Speaker 2: Did we connect as much physically as what I would
Speaker 2: have liked?
Speaker 1: Did the penis connect with the Virginia?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: No, there was there wasn't as much of that connection.
Speaker 2: But look, you know, if we're working on it, it's
Speaker 2: a work in progress. Everyone.
Speaker 1: That is it from us guys. If you love the episode,
Speaker 1: please leave us a review, let us know, share it
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Speaker 2: Yeah. And also, like we said, go and follow us
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