1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: Oh now it makes sense. Good morning, and welcome to 3 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: the Daily OS. It's Tuesday, the seventh of January. 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 2: I'm Billy, I'm Zara. 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: Over the break. One of the biggest stories was the 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: lawsuit filed between actress Blake Lively and her fellow co 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: star and director in It Ends with Us, Justin Baldoni. 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: Just a few days before Christmas. Lively filed a legal 9 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: complaint and has since filed a lawsuit against Baldoni, alleging 10 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: that he sexually harassed her on set, and that after 11 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: she complained about his alleged behavior, he retaliated by staging 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: a pr campaign to ruin her reputation. The complaint was 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: first reported by The New York Times, who was then 14 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: sued by Baldoni and his team just over a week 15 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: later for defamation. In today's Deep Dive, we are going 16 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: to break down exactly. 17 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: What happened, Philly. 18 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 3: I feel like you've already said a podcast I know, 19 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 3: in our introduction alone, but it is important context because 20 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 3: I feel like people might be coming to this story 21 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 3: at different times. It started in the pop culture world, 22 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 3: it has very much moved out of that. Now with 23 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 3: so many lawsuits with the New York Times involved, it 24 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 3: has really made it into the mainstream kind of hard 25 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 3: news cycle. It did start with a movie, though, so 26 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 3: what can you quickly tell us about It Ends with 27 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 3: Us and why that's relevant to the story. 28 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: It's so funny. This is my entire TikTok for me tage. 29 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,199 Speaker 1: So in my head, everyone is really across this because 30 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: I've just gone down every single rabbit hole. You and 31 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: me both yes, But a good reminder. When we were 32 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: speaking to Sam, he had no idea and he was like, 33 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: I just need it explained to me. So that is 34 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: why we're here. So it all surrounds the movie It 35 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: Ends with Us, which is an adaptation of the best 36 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: selling novel by Coleen Hoover which was published in twenty sixteen. 37 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: Now that movie, well, that book and then movie follows 38 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: Lily Boom as she navigates being in and then trying 39 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: to leave and abusive relationship with a man called Ryle. 40 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: Now Blake Lively plays Lily Boom and she was also 41 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: a producer on the film. And then Justin Baldoni played Ryle, 42 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: and he was also the director of the film. But 43 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: he also partly owns the production company called Wayfair Studios, 44 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: which owns the rights to the film It Ends with Us, 45 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: and it also owns the sequel, It Starts with Us. 46 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 3: I wonder if there's going to be a sequel. I 47 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 3: find the answer is no. I mean, that's a whole 48 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 3: nother conversation. But when that film It Ends with Us 49 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 3: was first released, there was this whole string of controversy 50 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 3: that followed, mainly pointed at one person. 51 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's important to go back to 52 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: what happened when this film was first release, because it's 53 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: basically the center of the entire lawsuits that have now 54 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: subsequently come out. So pretty much as soon as the 55 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: film was released, audiences started to suspect that there was 56 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: tension between Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. So they were 57 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 1: never seen on the red carpet together, and they also 58 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: never did any press interviews together, which for the two 59 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: main stars of a film, that is very rare. I've 60 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: never seen that before, and that is what caused so 61 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: much speculation about whether there was tension. Now, on top 62 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: of that, during the press interviews that Blake Lively did do, 63 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: she started to be accused of trivializing domestic violence, which 64 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: was one of the biggest themes of this film. And 65 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: she was also criticized for launching her hair care line, 66 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: Blake Brown, at the same time as the film's release. 67 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 3: And when you say she was criticized, I've never seen 68 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 3: such uniform criticism. It was every single app you went on, 69 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 3: you know, whether it was Instagram or TikTok. There was 70 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 3: this uniform criticism of Blake Lively in a way that 71 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 3: I've never seen before. 72 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: And that was the whole conversation at the time that 73 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: it is so rare that all of the criticism is 74 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: so uniform. You know, there was no real nuance in 75 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: the conversation. It was just all of this backloud against 76 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: Blake Lively. It started with the criticism of how she 77 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: was marketing this film, but then it completely snowballed two 78 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: past interviews that she had done. People were branding her 79 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: as rude and bringing up all of these historic examples 80 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: that kind of fit that narrative. They said, okay. 81 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 3: And so that was in August when the film was released, 82 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 3: but then in December and the story kind of died 83 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 3: a bit over the months that followed. But then in December, 84 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 3: Blake Lively sued Justin Baldoni. It seemingly came out of nowhere, 85 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 3: or of course that's not what happened. But in the 86 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 3: New York Times we first found out about this lawsuit 87 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 3: from Blake Lively against Justin Baldoni. And what were the allegations? 88 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think, just for clarity, we'll say against 89 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: Justin Baldoni. But important to note that it was also 90 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: against Wayfarer, which is the company that he owns. And 91 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: then it was also against senior individuals that were part 92 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: of the PR firm called the Agency Group, who were 93 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: hired by Wayfarer and Baldoni. But for clarity's sake, we'll 94 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: say against Baldoni. Veley's complaint and now lawsuit has ten 95 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: claims for damages, which we can broadly separate into two baskets. 96 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: So there is the alleged sexual harassment and then also 97 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: the alleged coordination of a PR campaign which was she says, 98 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: designed to completely ruin her reputation and also her life. 99 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 3: Okay, let's take the sexual harassment claims first. What was alleged? 100 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: Okay, so there were several different instances where Baldoni allegedly 101 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: sexually harassed Lively. And it wasn't only Baldoni that Lively 102 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: is saying allegedly sexually harassed her, also one of the 103 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: producers who was on set. Again, there were several instances. 104 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: We'll just go through a specific example that I think 105 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: is kind of emblematic of all of the ones that 106 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: she alleged. So at one point, Lively accused Baldoni of 107 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: improvising physical intimacy with no intimacy coordinator present and trying 108 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: to add sex scenes that she had not agreed to. 109 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: So reminded that they were the two main actors on 110 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: this film, and she is saying that he allegedly came 111 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: up with these sex scenes that weren't actually part of 112 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: the script. And it's also alleged that Baldoni caressed Lively 113 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: with his mouth when they were not in character. It 114 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: was also alleged that Baldoni and one of the producers 115 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: entered her makeup trailer uninvited while she was undressed, including 116 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: when she was breastfeeding. Now, things allegedly got so bad 117 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: that in early January twenty twenty four, so exactly a 118 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: year ago, an all hands meeting took place where Lively 119 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: Baldoni and several others discussed the hostile environment on set. 120 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: Now during that meeting, I think this is like the 121 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: big thing that everyone has focused on. There were thirty 122 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: conditions that this lawsuit says were agreed to. Now that 123 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: included no more improvising of kissing or adding of sex scenes, 124 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: no more entering of Lively's trailer while she is nude, 125 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: no more discussion of personal experiences with sex, and no 126 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: more discussion of Baldoni's previous pornography addiction. So again, those 127 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: are only four of these lists of thirty demands that 128 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: were allegedly agreed to. 129 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 3: Okay, and I think we'll get into more on that 130 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 3: a bit later, but I want to just go to 131 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 3: the other claim, which was about this pr campaign. 132 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, so the second suite of claims center around this 133 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: alleged plan by a Baldonian wayfarer to again ruin the 134 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: lives of miss Lively and also her family. Now, Lively 135 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: claims that this was done in retaliation, and that is 136 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: one of the key words. Basically, she's saying that she 137 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: complained about sexual harassment and then her employer of the 138 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: film company retaliated against that by hiring this crisis PR 139 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: firm for when the movie comes out. So the alleged 140 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: plan involved manipulating algorithms by boosting certain content and also 141 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: by posting things that appeared to come from accounts belonging 142 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: to the general public, but were actually generated by the 143 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: PR company. 144 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 3: This is something that we've spoken about on the pub before. 145 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 3: It was part of our summer series, this idea that 146 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 3: are their PR bots that are online, and you know, 147 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 3: that's been a whole big conversation, and that's kind of 148 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 3: what Blake Lively is alleging happened here. 149 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, And they had multiple examples of screenshots of accounts 150 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: that had zero followers, had never posted before, followed zero people, 151 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,119 Speaker 1: but were posting hate about Blake Lively. And so they said, 152 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: these are fake accounts that they allege were created by 153 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: this PR company to just completely again ruin Lively's reputation. 154 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: But Baldoni does dispute that, but we'll get into that, okay. Now. 155 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: Another key part of her lawsuit is the allegation that 156 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,359 Speaker 1: the film's marketing plan ordered the cast to avoid describing 157 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: the film as a story about domestic violence, but that 158 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: Baldoni abruptly pivoted away from this plan in the days 159 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: leading up to the release. Now, the reason why that's 160 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: important is because again Lively was accused of completely trivializing 161 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: this theme of domestic vice. 162 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 3: Didn't talk about domestic violence, but that's what it was 163 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 3: all about. But hear the allegation is that they were 164 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 3: told not to Well, it was agreed upon that they wouldn't, 165 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 3: but then he departed. 166 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: He departed, and then was praised for talking about domestic violence. Now, 167 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: all of these allegations were accompanied with text messages and 168 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: emails sent between Baldoni and the crisis communications team at 169 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: the time. I feel like one of the big questions 170 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: everyone had when they saw this lawsuit was how did 171 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: they get these text messages? The answer is through a subpoena, 172 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: which is just a formal court order to produce certain communications. 173 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: It appears that it came from a former employee of Wayfararer, 174 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: but that is still part of the conversation and also 175 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: part of Baldoni's subsequent lawsuit. So that's a whole subplot. 176 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: I don't think we got into that, but just an fyi. 177 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 2: I'll stay with the main plot. 178 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 3: So Blake Lively has sued Justin Baldoni, the new York 179 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 3: Times has posted about this lawsuit. Then in the weeks 180 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 3: that follow Justin Baldoni launches his own legal action and 181 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 3: it's against the New York Times. 182 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 2: What is this lawsuit on the basis of. 183 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think many people expected Justin Baldoni to issue 184 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: a counter lawsuit against Blake Lively, but it was interesting 185 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: that it was actually against the New York Times for defamation, 186 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: and it was for two hundred and fifty million US dollars. Now, 187 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: the basis of his lawsuit is the allegation that The 188 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: New York Times did not follow proper journalistic practices, that 189 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: they published false allegations, and that they deliberately left out 190 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: pieces of information and text messages that disputed their chosen narrative. 191 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 1: So basically, they're saying they only chose half the story, 192 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: half the story that supported what Blake Lively was saying. 193 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 3: I just want to interrupt quickly because what was interesting 194 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 3: when this piece was first published by The New York 195 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 3: Times is the journalist who published it, who was Megan 196 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 3: Toohey and Meghan Twey is the journalist that really started 197 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 3: this me too movement across the world. She was the 198 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 3: one who uncovered the Harvey Weinstein allegations, and so I 199 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 3: think when we saw her byline, it was like, oh 200 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 3: my god, this is a big deal. But clearly Justin 201 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 3: Baldoni and his team believed that journalistic malpractice as sort's happened. 202 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 2: What are some of the examples that they've used. 203 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's start with how Baldoni alleged the Times deliberately 204 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: left out pieces of information. This one example that caught 205 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: my eye I thought was so interesting because it literally 206 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: all came down to a single emoji, you know, the 207 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: upside down smiley emoji. 208 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 3: You said every day, Oh dear, well, it's one of 209 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 3: my most used. 210 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: Well you'll love this one. So in the initial piece 211 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: about Lively's lawsuit against Baldoni, the Times quoted a text 212 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: exchange between PR communication specialists who were talking about a 213 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: negative article surrounding Lively. Now, the text exchange that the 214 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 1: Times quoted showed one PR agent saying, you really outdid 215 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: yourself with this piece, and the other replied, that's why 216 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: you hired me, right, I'm the best. Now, when I 217 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: saw that, I thought that pretty dead, black and white 218 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: evidence that clearly these PR specially were planting negative stories 219 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: about Lively. But Baldoni would like us to think or 220 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: know that everything is not as appears, because in the 221 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: text message, you really outdid yourself with this piece. Apparently 222 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: there was actually an emoji after that text that was 223 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: the upside down smiley emoji that he said clearly showed 224 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: that they were being sarcastic, and that also clearly showed 225 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: that they actually had nothing to do with this also 226 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 1: because the next message said damn, this is unfair because 227 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: it's also not me. Again, he's saying that proves that 228 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: they actually had nothing to do with that piece, but 229 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: that the Times was just using those two messages and 230 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: deliberately left out the entire text exchange. 231 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 3: Wow, are you following, I'm following. So they're saying that 232 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 3: the emoji added a sense of sarcasm. Yeah, that was 233 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 3: missed when The New York Times published the text message 234 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 3: without that emoji exactly. 235 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: And there were a whole lot of different examples that 236 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: kind of showed a similar narrative where Baldoni is saying 237 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,080 Speaker 1: that The Times deliberately left out pieces. 238 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 3: Of Okay, so is the main issue here with the 239 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 3: New York Times that they mischaracterized the communications. 240 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: That's the main one. But then there are also other complaints. 241 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: Another one is that at nine point five pm, the 242 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: night before this piece went live, they sent an email 243 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: to Baldoni and his team saying, these are the allegations 244 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: against you. Can you please respond, which. 245 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 2: Is a very normal way of doing journalism. 246 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: A very normal thing, and the Time said you have 247 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: until noon tomorrow to respond to these allegations and also 248 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,719 Speaker 1: to let us know if there are any inaccuracies. Now, 249 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: Baldoni and his team did get back to the Times 250 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: within that timeframe, but then The Times published the story 251 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 1: two hours before the deadline of noon, And what Baldoni's 252 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: team is saying is that, yes, we did respond, but 253 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: also we were working on a document that showed you 254 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: the inaccuracies in the piece, but you didn't give us 255 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: enough time because you didn't fulfill the full deadline in 256 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: order for us to send that through. And so there 257 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 1: are other examples where Baldoni is saying that there was 258 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: malpractice in the journalism conducted by The Times. 259 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 3: Wow, I mean so much there and so much to unpack, 260 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 3: but that really goes to I guess that the journalism 261 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 3: not actually the claims enclosed in the journalism, and not 262 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 3: the claims that are enclosed in Lively's lawsuit against Justin Baldoni. 263 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 3: Has he or his team actually said anything, for example, 264 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 3: about the alleged sexual harassment. 265 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I mentioned before this list of thirty demands 266 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: that Lively said everyone agreed to. Baldoni's team completely denies 267 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: that they actually say denies what denies that that document 268 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: ever existed or that they agreed to that document. 269 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 2: Okay, so they said. 270 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: Their lawsuit said, and this is quoting, no such document 271 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: was ever presented to Baldoni, the Wayfairer team, or to 272 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: their knowledge anyone else, whether during that meeting or any 273 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: other time, and therefore could not have been agreed to. 274 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: And it also says the repeated use of the phrase 275 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: no more before each demand in that document falsely suggests 276 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: that these alleged incidents had previously taken place and needed 277 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: to cease, which they say is entirely untrue. So they're 278 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: basically saying none of this ever happened. And by saying 279 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: that no more of this can happen, you're saying it 280 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: happened before, but they're saying it didn't. There are so 281 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: many other examples. We could literally be sitting here for 282 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: three hours. I don't think we need to get into 283 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: all of them, but they did go through most of 284 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: the examples that Lively brought up in her lawsuit, and 285 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: they provided contexts that they say completely disputes those claims. 286 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 3: And how has Blake Lively responded to Justin Valdoni suing 287 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 3: The New York Times. 288 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: So Lively's attorneys have completely doubled down, and they said 289 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: in a statement, Unfortunately, miss Lively's decision to speak out 290 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: has resulted in further retaliation and attacks. So again that 291 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: word of retaliation, which is really the basis of what 292 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: she's saying. Her team continued, Now the defendants will answer 293 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: for their conduct in federal court. The New York Times 294 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: also responded in a statement, They said, our story was 295 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: meticulously and responsibly reported. It was based on a review 296 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: of thousands of pages of original documents, including the text, 297 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: messages and emails that we quote accurately and at length 298 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: in the article. 299 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 3: Right, So nobody is moving from their firm positions. 300 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: Nice. 301 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 2: So I guess it's off to court now. 302 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that there should be a court case 303 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: that happens this year. Also to note that Baldoni's team 304 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: has signified that he will also be suing Blake Lively herself. 305 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 3: So at the. 306 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: Moment, the defendant is only The New York Times, but 307 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: apparently we can be expecting a whole other lawsuit that 308 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: Baldoni will file against Blake Lively herself. 309 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 3: Well, we're going to need another whole podcast to explain 310 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 3: that one. Yeah, but Billy, thank you for explaining something 311 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 3: that really, yeah, as I said, has been quite difficult 312 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 3: to follow just because of how many twists and turns 313 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 3: and really so much any opposing views and perspectives. So 314 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 3: I feel like I understand it much more. Thank you 315 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 3: for explaining that, and thank you for joining us on 316 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 3: another episode of The Daily Ours. 317 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 2: It's good to be back for another year. 318 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 3: If you missed us or you enjoyed this episode, press 319 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 3: follow on Spotify or Apple and net signals to the 320 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 3: platforms that you like what you're hearing. We'll be back 321 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 3: this afternoon with the headlines, but until then, have a 322 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 3: wonderful Tuesday. 323 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda 324 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 1: Bungelung Chalcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily Oas acknowledges 325 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 326 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 327 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 1: Straight Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 328 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.