1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It is Thursday, 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: the twenty third of June. On today's podcast, Zara is 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: going to be talking to political journalist Tom Crowley all 4 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: about the John Barrellaro story. He might be off to 5 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: New York for a job and there's plenty to unpack there. 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: But first, Sara tell me what happened in the news yesterday. 7 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 2: So kicking off, Victoria is set to establish an authority 8 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 2: that will oversee treaty negotiations between the state government and 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: First Nation's people. The legislation allowing the authority to be 10 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 2: established is expected to pass through Parliament with bipartisan support 11 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 2: after the Liberal National Coalition said that they would back 12 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 2: the bill. 13 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,639 Speaker 1: Federal Health Minster Mark Butler has said there are one 14 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: point three million doses of COVID nineteen oral treatments sitting 15 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: unused because Australians are not aware of the treatment's existence. 16 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: The government will launch an eleven million dollar advertising campaign 17 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: today targeting stronger uptakes of COVID nineteen and flu vaccinations, 18 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: which hopes to reach First Nation audiences culturally and linguistically 19 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: diverse people and parents concerned about the safety of vaccines. 20 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 2: At least two hundred and eighty people have been killed 21 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 2: in an Afghanistan earthquake that has also left more than 22 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 2: six hundred people injured. The earthquake, which measured at six 23 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 2: point one on the Richter scale, was also felt in 24 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 2: parts of Pakistan and India. 25 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: And your Thursday good News. Canada will ban the manufacturing 26 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: and importing of single use plastics from December this year, 27 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: with the sale of items such as plastic grocery bags, 28 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: cutlery and straws to be prohibited from December twenty twenty three. 29 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau first promised out law single use 30 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: plastics back in twenty nineteen, and said this week that 31 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: the ban would eliminate over one point three million tons 32 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: of plastic waste over the next decade. 33 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: Okay, so for today's deep dive, I'm joined by TDA 34 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 2: journalist Tom Crowley. And Tom, you're not talking about your 35 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 2: home state today, You're talking about mine, and particularly the 36 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: former Deputy Premier John Barrellaro. He has been in the 37 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 2: news affair bit, but why are we talking about him today? 38 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 3: He has not been a very quiet retirement so far 39 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 3: for former Deputy Premier John Barillaro. For those who don't 40 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 3: remember he retired from politics at the end of last year. 41 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 3: Since then, as you say, he's been in the news 42 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 3: for a couple of reasons. At the moment, it's because 43 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 3: of a job that he's just been appointed to by 44 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 3: the New South Wales government. It's a position called Trade 45 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 3: Commissioner to the Americas. And one of the reasons that 46 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 3: this has attracted some controversy is because it's a position 47 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 3: that he actually established when he was the Trade Minister. 48 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 2: So by John Barrellaro for John Barrelaro, is that what 49 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 2: you're saying. 50 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 3: So it's turned out, yeah. So the idea, it was 51 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 3: part of this kind of trade strategy that the New 52 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 3: South Wales government launched. The idea was that they would 53 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 3: have five commissioners I think it's Mumbai, Singapore, China, London 54 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 3: and New York and their job would be to go 55 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 3: and talk to people in those countries and try and 56 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 3: encourage them to buy New South Wales exports basically, and 57 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 3: it pays about five hundred thousand dollars a year, not 58 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 3: a bad job. Certainly sounds like it'd be a bit 59 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 3: of fun to have and that was kind of set 60 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 3: up as I say, last year, and now the government 61 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 3: is getting around to finalizing the appointments of those five commissioners, 62 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 3: and it turns out that one of them is the 63 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 3: minister who set the whole thing up in the first place, 64 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 3: John Berrellara, having left politics, he applied for the job 65 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 3: himself and now he's got it. 66 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm a fairly new employer myself. You're an employee. 67 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 2: We all know how recruitment works. How has it worked 68 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: in this scenario. What do we know so far about 69 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 2: how the former deputy premier might have ended up in 70 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: this position? 71 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 3: So this is something that we're still trying to figure out. 72 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 3: So government appoints all sorts of people to all sorts 73 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 3: of things, and the appointment processes vary. Sometimes they're approved 74 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 3: by government ministers or by the cabinet. Sometimes, though for 75 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 3: kind of lower level appointments, the public Service goes through 76 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 3: the process itself and often doesn't necessarily, you know, maybe 77 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 3: the minister takes a box, but the public service handles 78 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 3: the process. It's in kind of an independent and separate way. Now, 79 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 3: the new South Wales government, in response to some controversy 80 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 3: over Barrellarro's appointment, has said no, this process was run 81 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 3: by the Public Service, by the public service body Investment 82 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 3: New South Wales. Investment New South Wales has said, yes, 83 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 3: we ran the process ourselves, didn't go before cabinet. There's 84 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 3: been some controversy. The Labor opposition has requested and received 85 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 3: some documents through Parliament that seemed to suggest that maybe 86 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 3: the plan was originally that these commissioners would be approved 87 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,239 Speaker 3: by cabinet, or that they should have been approved by cabinet. 88 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 3: So there's still a little bit to figure out about 89 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 3: exactly how much did the government, which is still the 90 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 3: same coalition government that Barrellaro was a part of, how 91 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 3: much of a role did those politicians themselves have in 92 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 3: giving him this job. At the moment, though, the government's 93 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 3: line is that the advice that they're receiving is no, 94 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 3: it had nothing to do with them, that it was 95 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 3: an independent process, and Premier Dominic Perreit has sort of said, look, 96 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 3: he was the Trade Minister, he's qualified to be a 97 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 3: Trade commissioner, and that it's perfectly reasonable to think that 98 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 3: he was appointed in a merit based at independent process. 99 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 3: Where that gets a little a bit more complicated, though, 100 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 3: is some of the timelines here. So when Barrellaro was 101 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 3: still the minister. They opened up this position for applicants, 102 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 3: and there were two applicants for the America's position, who 103 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 3: it seems met all of the criteria. I think there 104 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 3: were four criteria. They exceeded three of them and met 105 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 3: a fourth and again some it's not clear. It was 106 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,239 Speaker 3: still learning a lot about this story. It's not clear, 107 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 3: but there's some suggestion that one of those people was 108 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 3: offered that job, but then after Barrelario left politics, the 109 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 3: job was re advertised and he applied and he got it. 110 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 3: So again there's a little bit to kind of figure 111 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 3: out about exactly how this process worked. But certainly I 112 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 3: can see why this would kind of raise some concerns 113 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 3: in the community and certainly has raised some concerns in 114 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 3: the opposition about, you know, whether this was kind of 115 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 3: I think the opposition leader used the term captain's pick, 116 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 3: whether the government had tried to basically line up this 117 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 3: job in New York paying half a million dollars tax 118 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 3: payer money a year for its retiring deputy premier. 119 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 2: And you just alluded there to what the opposition leader 120 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 2: has said. How has labor dealt with this? I read 121 00:05:59,080 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 2: about an inquiry. 122 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, so the Upper House Labor with the support of 123 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 3: some independence in the Upper House, was able to successfully 124 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 3: move a motion to investigate disappointment. And my understanding is 125 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 3: that the appointment is kind of on hold and we 126 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 3: won't be seeing John barrollaro on a plane to New 127 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 3: York until this investigation has been concluded and gotten to 128 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 3: the bottom of exactly how the process came about. 129 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: Okay, So, Tom, we often talk about a revolving door 130 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 2: in and around politics. The politicians may leave Parliament and 131 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: then go into lobbying jobs or have overseas postings for 132 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 2: people that don't follow necessarily the lives of politicians post politics. 133 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 2: Can you explain how kind of regular this might be 134 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: as an occurrence. Is it something that's unusual or does 135 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 2: it happen very often? 136 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, it is pretty regular. It's a really controversial question. 137 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 3: I think, this question of what a politicians do and 138 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 3: how close the tab do we keep on what politicians 139 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 3: do when they leave politics. There are lots of reasons why, 140 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 3: you know, you'd be right to be concerned about keeping 141 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 3: an eye what politicians do. As you say, it is 142 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 3: quite common for politicians to go and lobby on behalf 143 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 3: of businesses or interest groups in the same sectors that 144 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 3: they used to regulate. It's also quite common for them 145 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 3: to take up various sort of appointments that are funded 146 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 3: by the taxpayer and appointed by the government. And in 147 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 3: both of those cases, I guess one of the reasons 148 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 3: that we worry about that is kind of a concern 149 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 3: about you. You don't want politicians who are spending their 150 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 3: years in office thinking about what job they've got lined 151 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 3: up afterwards. And also, you know the sort of contacts 152 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: and networking that politicians will be able to do and 153 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 3: former politicians can do from the sidelines. There are lots 154 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 3: of reasons about sort of transparency and democracy why we 155 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 3: would keep an eye on this kind of thing, And 156 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 3: there are some rules about this kind of thing. There 157 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 3: are generally time limits when it comes to kind of 158 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 3: working in private sector lobbying, and some limits on what 159 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 3: politicians can do. But the one that there's probably a 160 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 3: little bit less oversight on really is actually the government 161 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 3: appointing former politicians to positions. And it happens all the time. 162 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 3: So as I said earlier, governments and federal level, they 163 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 3: make all sorts of different appointments. They appoint people to 164 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 3: be the commissioner of this that and the other thing. 165 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 3: They appoint people to be on boards of things. So 166 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 3: for example, all the museums and galleries that are publicly owned. 167 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 3: The federal level, you've got the ABC and the SBS. 168 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 3: There are hospitals at state levels. All of these things 169 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 3: have boards. Some of them are paid board positions. There 170 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 3: are ambassadors who get to go over at all sorts 171 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 3: of exciting places all around the world and have quite 172 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 3: good lifestyles. And there are trade commissioners like this role 173 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 3: that Barrolaro's got. There are literally thousands and thousands of 174 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 3: these sorts of positions that governments appoint just so happens 175 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 3: in a past life. As a policy researchers are I 176 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 3: spent a long time Basically my job for about two 177 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 3: months was to LinkedIn stok thousands of people who've been 178 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 3: appointed to these boards, just to get a sense of, 179 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 3: you know, what is the appointment process and where were 180 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 3: they coming from. 181 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 2: I think that makes us a good joe because as 182 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 2: a former lobbyist, I was on the other side of this, 183 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 2: so we've got very different experience of this. So I'm 184 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: curious to hear what yours is. 185 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 3: There you goes are I didn't LinkedIn stock you, but 186 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 3: what I found and I guess the other thing that 187 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 3: I did as part of this project. My old job 188 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 3: was to look at these appointment processes, and unfortunately the 189 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 3: answer is that at state and federal levels it's really 190 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 3: quite easy, and there are all sorts of opportunities where 191 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 3: you know, the politicians are the ones making the decisions 192 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 3: about who gets these jobs. They can overrule whatever the 193 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 3: public service suggests. There is not always a clear and 194 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 3: transparent merit based process. There are lots of stories of 195 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 3: people who felt that they were qualified, who applied and 196 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 3: didn't really get told why they didn't get it where 197 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 3: politicians get it. Now, you know, you don't want to 198 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 3: get into the business of saying I mean, you know, 199 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 3: we take the Barrollaro story for example, and the government said, well, 200 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 3: he was the trade minister. Of course he can be 201 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 3: a trade commissioner. He's qualified for it, and that could 202 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 3: be a reasonable point. I mean, you know, being the 203 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 3: trade minister is not the worst qualification to being a 204 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 3: trade commissioner. So I think that it's sort of less 205 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 3: useful to get stuck into kind of you know, each 206 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 3: individual political appointment so much as it is to sort 207 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 3: of look for evidence of politicization of this process. So 208 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 3: in particular, to look at well, when you get labor 209 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 3: governments in do they point labor people to these positions 210 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 3: and when you get coalition governments to they appoint coalition 211 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 3: people to these positions And the answer seems to be yes. 212 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 3: So when we look across say the Victorian state government appointments, 213 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 3: there's been a labor government in Victoria for about a decade, 214 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 3: very consistently, there are very very low you know, when 215 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 3: people with political backgrounds get appointed to these sorts of things, 216 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 3: they come from the Labor Party. And the same when 217 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 3: you look through, for example, the federal government over about 218 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 3: a decade of coalition government, you see exactly the same thing. 219 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 3: They're all people with connections to the coalition parties. And 220 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 3: so I think that when you see that happening in 221 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 3: a widespread way, and you can see it on boards 222 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 3: of for example, Australia Post which sort of had a 223 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 3: bit of a controversy about a year ago over its board, 224 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 3: there are a lot of people on that board that 225 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 3: had connections to the Liberal Party. When you start seeing 226 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 3: these things kind of systematically throughout these kind of desirable 227 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 3: and often well paid tax payer funded bought positions. I 228 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 3: think it does do something to sort of undermine trust 229 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 3: in systems and trust in the way that the government 230 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 3: makes these appointments, and it certainly has a lot of 231 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 3: transparency advocates arguing for tighter rules and clear emerit based 232 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:02,719 Speaker 3: processes around this kind of thing. 233 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: I think the most interesting point there is that it's 234 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 2: not one side of politics. This seems to be across 235 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 2: the board and both at local, state and federal levels. 236 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 2: So it does seem like there would have to be 237 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 2: some systemic change to uproot what has become tradition at 238 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 2: these levels of government. It's something that is interesting. I'm 239 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 2: curious to know from our audience whether you are aware 240 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 2: of this happening, and if you were, or if you 241 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 2: are now, what do you think of it. Do you 242 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 2: think that it should be okay for this to happen 243 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 2: or do you have an issue with it? Dm US, 244 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 2: We'd love to hear from you, but that is all 245 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 2: we have time for today on the podcast. Thank you 246 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 2: so much for tuning in to The Daily OS. If 247 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 2: you like what you hear, leave us a review on 248 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 2: Apple or rate us on Spotify. It does a lot 249 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 2: for independent media and thanks again.