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Speaker 1: Look, we know this situation and this Shar's scandal continues

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Speaker 1: to dominate headlines and parliament. It was once again the

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Speaker 1: focus in Parliament yesterday from the opposition. They were during

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Speaker 1: question time really calling for the government to release cabinet

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Speaker 1: minutes to prove that mister Pike raised the conflict with

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Speaker 1: his colleagues when alcohol policy was discussed. Now joining me

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Speaker 1: on the line to talk about this, but to talk

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Speaker 1: about a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of other things as well.

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Speaker 1: It is the now independent Member for Blaine, Mark Turner.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Mark, Good morning Katie, Thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for your time this morning. Mark. Do you think

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Speaker 1: that these announcements need well, these minutes, I should say,

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Speaker 1: do you think they need to be released?

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Speaker 3: They don't need to be under the rule book, But

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Speaker 3: if you care about public perception and transparency then it's

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Speaker 3: a no brainer. But for your listeners, most people will

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Speaker 3: remember the turf club shenanigans and they refuse to release

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Speaker 3: cabinet documents to the Icon Commissioner then, so it's it's

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Speaker 3: frustrating because it's when when it suits them, the rule

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Speaker 3: book comes out. You know, I kept on hearing them

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Speaker 3: shouting about Westminster democracy across the chamber, but when it

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Speaker 3: suits us.

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Speaker 2: So, I mean, what needs to happen here?

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Speaker 1: Mark, because this you know, the opposition and some of

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Speaker 1: the independents calling for Chancey Pake to stand down. Chancey Pake,

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Speaker 1: you know you probably heard that interview I did with

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Speaker 1: him yesterday. He is digging his heels in and he's

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Speaker 1: saying he's done nothing wrong.

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Speaker 3: Of course he is. He's a career politician. I've learned

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Speaker 3: how this game works now. The if he if he resigns,

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Speaker 3: then he's going to be toaxed. So and it's what

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Speaker 3: do you do next? The other issue you've got to

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Speaker 3: player is the internal machinations of the Labor Party that

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Speaker 3: you saw the COLP throwing of them yesterday about three

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Speaker 3: chief ministers and three speakers exactly the stuff the Labor

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Speaker 3: Party threw at the COLP with the amount of cabinet

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Speaker 3: reshuffles that they had, so they know the lines that

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Speaker 3: are going to get used against them in election time.

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Speaker 3: And I'd imagine either is just doing a cost benefit

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Speaker 3: analysis on do we get rid of him this close

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Speaker 3: to an election or do we just try and weather

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Speaker 3: it out?

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Speaker 2: So do you reckon that's what's going on here?

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Speaker 1: Do you think realistically the Labor Party is going this

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Speaker 1: could be too damaging to get rid of another senior leader.

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Speaker 1: Realistically within the Labor Party, we're just going to need

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Speaker 1: to weather this until the election.

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Speaker 3: Yep. Well, look to give Natasha credit, she fell on

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Speaker 3: her sword. It took a while, but she read the

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Speaker 3: rule book and did the right thing. I don't think

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Speaker 3: chance he will and he'll be sitting there going well,

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Speaker 3: I have a large male in my electorate, a quada.

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Speaker 3: I'll just ride this out and free surface at some point.

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Speaker 1: Mark. Look, there's lots of questions being made or being

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Speaker 1: asked now, I guess as well, with different parliamentarians need

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Speaker 1: to divest their shares. We are going to catch up

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Speaker 1: with Keesiopuric after eleven o'clock and talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about shares. You know, I know it's an area

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Speaker 1: that she feels pretty passionate about. I mean, what do

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Speaker 1: you make of that? Should the COLP like, should they

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Speaker 1: be treating this as seriously as well in divesting these shares.

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Speaker 1: I heard both yesterday and the day before in parliament

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Speaker 1: evil all are sort of yelling out the different shares

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Speaker 1: that some different members currently hold.

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Speaker 3: It's a difficult one. Isn't it. Because you want competent

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Speaker 3: parliamentarians and it's difficult enough to attract people into a

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Speaker 3: job with the public profile and the risk attached to

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Speaker 3: that when you would earn more as a mid level

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Speaker 3: manager in the public service, So you don't want to

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Speaker 3: further dilute the people that you've got available to you.

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Speaker 3: The Center for Public Integrity came out with a reasonably

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Speaker 3: good suggestion that while you're in office, you put your

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Speaker 3: shares in an index tracker that can follow, for example,

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Speaker 3: the AX and then if the Australian economy is doing well,

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Speaker 3: which you're supposed to be trying to do, your shares

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Speaker 3: go up. But because it's just tracking the top two

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Speaker 3: hundred companies or whatever, you're not you can't be accused

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Speaker 3: of impropriety because you bought shares in a staff Troup

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Speaker 3: farm or mango farm in your electorate.

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Speaker 2: Well, because this is the thing, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: You know, like there are some people sort of going

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Speaker 1: it was four hundred bucks worth of sheesh, you know,

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Speaker 1: like is it really going to change the way that

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Speaker 1: you're making a decision at the cabinet table? But you know,

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Speaker 1: the question here is whether it does cloud your judgment

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Speaker 1: in any way, and I guess that's where we're currently sitting.

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Speaker 1: You know, why would you even invest in shares then,

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Speaker 1: you know, are supplying goods two communities, presumably in your electros.

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Speaker 3: Yep, that will be the analysis that most people will

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Speaker 3: make it the only shares I've got through my police

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Speaker 3: super But I think the other angle to this is

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Speaker 3: that it's the perception, yet again that it's one or

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Speaker 3: all for them, one for all for us. If you

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Speaker 3: look when they kicked me out over voting for the

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Speaker 3: select Committee into Police mental Health. I've got a very

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Speaker 3: stern letter about how important it is to follow the rules.

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Speaker 3: But when Chancey, you or Natasha have got shares, then

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Speaker 3: oh it's the rules. Is it really such a big thing?

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Speaker 3: So that's the problem. It's the born to rule arrogance

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Speaker 3: of people in certain high level positions that when it

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Speaker 3: suits them, we'll do it. When it doesn't, we won't.

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Speaker 3: And territory ands don't like that. Nobody likes it. That's

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Speaker 3: why people are so annoyed with politicians.

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Speaker 1: Mark. I do want to move along because there is

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Speaker 1: quite a bit to talk about this morning, and there

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Speaker 1: was legislation introduced in Parliament yesterday making changes to the

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Speaker 1: recruitment of the Children's Commissioner. Now we know that we

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Speaker 1: have obviously got a new Children's Commissioner in place, but

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Speaker 1: as I understand, this comes to the recruitment process if

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Speaker 1: that job becomes vacant again. Essentially, the legislation being introduced

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Speaker 1: recommends that the commissioner be an Indigenous person. As I understand,

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Speaker 1: this was a recommendation of the Royal Commission, and there

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Speaker 1: is a safeguard should there not be an Indigenous person

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Speaker 1: who's adequately qualified available. Is that your understanding of this legislation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so the administrator canna point, but it has to

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Speaker 3: be on the minister's recommendation, and the Minister's only allowed

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Speaker 3: to recommend a non Indigenous person if they can't find

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Speaker 3: a superly qualified one. To my point, I put it

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Speaker 3: out on my social media and our community groups as

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Speaker 3: soon as it came out yesterday because I looked at

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Speaker 3: it and went, wow, where do you pull the line

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Speaker 3: with this? Are we going to do it with the

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Speaker 3: Ikak Commissioner, the Police commissioner, the Health Complaints Commissioner. It

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Speaker 3: just doesn't seem to be good governance.

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Speaker 1: Well, presumably they've done it because it is or because

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Speaker 1: it was a recommendation of the Royal Commission. From what

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Speaker 1: I can gather, there has been discussion about the fact that,

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Speaker 1: you know, the reason they've done it is because a

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Speaker 1: large majority of children that are in care or in

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Speaker 1: custody are Indigenous. But you think, do you think it

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Speaker 1: goes a step too far here?

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Speaker 3: I don't. Yes, yes, I think it's a massive step

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Speaker 3: too far. I don't think we should legislate based on

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Speaker 3: division by the amount of melanin in our skin or

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Speaker 3: where we're born my things. An absolutely terrible idea.

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Speaker 2: So what do you reckon needs to happen here?

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Speaker 1: What do you think needs to happen Because we're just

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Speaker 1: that sort of introduction of the legislation stage, aren't we.

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Speaker 3: Labor are going to push it through on their numbers.

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Speaker 3: And this is I suppose why we had a difference

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Speaker 3: of opinion, because there's no ability to talk about things.

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Speaker 3: If that's the decision, and that's the decision he's made,

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Speaker 3: then that's what's going to happen. But I don't think

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Speaker 3: it's a good idea the and I just don't think

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Speaker 3: there's any need for it. You know, we've got a

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Speaker 3: lady who appears on everything either it to be eminently

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Speaker 3: qualified for the role and got the role without the

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Speaker 3: need for legislation. The segregates please a bad taste in

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Speaker 3: my mouth. You know, I cannot see why we would

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Speaker 3: do it. And as for Royal Commission recommendations, governments again

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Speaker 3: take them and leave them. We had the Royal Commission

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Speaker 3: recommendations about opening up the FOI laws and neither side

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Speaker 3: of politics wanted to talk about that.

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Speaker 1: So I reckon they pick and choose what to use

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Speaker 1: when it comes to, you know, to Royal Commission recommendations

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Speaker 1: or to recommendations made from any report.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, look at the You got a big Royal

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Speaker 3: Commission into domestic violence about co locating services and ensuring

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Speaker 3: that people weren't overloaded with work, and none of that's

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Speaker 3: come to fruition. You know, We've had so many inquiries

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Speaker 3: into police resourcing that always show the same thing. There

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Speaker 3: was a big Senate report on first respondmental health and

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Speaker 3: I think that was in twenty nineteen. Again, none of

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Speaker 3: that's been actioned.

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Speaker 1: So before I let you go, mate, because we are

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Speaker 1: going to have to get ready to wrap up. Yesterday

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Speaker 1: in question time in Parliament, you raised an issue, or

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Speaker 1: you asked a question about victims of crime, what was

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Speaker 1: the concern that you were raising?

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Speaker 3: So we've got them. Samara is very gracefully give me

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Speaker 3: permission to use her example. She's finding out what's happening

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Speaker 3: with her core case from the media. You guys are

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Speaker 3: putting it out there, and she's going, oh, I didn't

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Speaker 3: know that, and then trying to chase it up to

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Speaker 3: find out why, and her concern and mine are because

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Speaker 3: it'sn't media worthy. She's finding that out, but what is

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Speaker 3: happening to the people who don't find it meat you're worthy.

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Speaker 3: You've got I think maybe three members of staff in

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Speaker 3: the Witness Assistance Service who are carrying hundreds of case loads,

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Speaker 3: and they range from what you'd consider volume property crime

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Speaker 3: to murders and rapes. It's just completely inadequately resourced. When

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Speaker 3: I was a policeman, they didn't even have a car,

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Speaker 3: so we'd have to try and between our jobs pick

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Speaker 3: up witnesses and drop them off at DVP.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Right, No other jurisdiction underinvests in what's such an important role,

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Speaker 3: And it goes back to putting victims first. We've got

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Speaker 3: our criminal justice system completely back to front.

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Speaker 1: So an increase in resources or what needs to happen here?

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Speaker 3: Yep, massive increase in resources. We either have well, we

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Speaker 3: don't have enough working fit, healthy police to stay on

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Speaker 3: top of it all, which we used to do. So

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Speaker 3: you either fix the police force so that police can

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Speaker 3: stay in contact with their victims and witnesses and look

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Speaker 3: after them, or you're going to need to hire about

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Speaker 3: twenty more staff. You know, I've had a look at

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Speaker 3: what other places have got internationally and you've got case

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Speaker 3: workers with twenty or thirty max. Yet our people are

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Speaker 3: sitting with a couple of hundred.

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Speaker 1: Well, I tell you what, it does sound like there

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Speaker 1: needs to be some serious work here. And I think

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Speaker 1: that anybody that has been the victim of crime stands that,

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Speaker 1: you know, they understand that there isn't enough support there.

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Speaker 1: And the fact that Samara Lavity Declan's mummy's finding out

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Speaker 1: what's going on through the media is a real indication

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Speaker 1: of that. And it's not a criticism against those that

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Speaker 1: are working with those victims of crime, but like you've

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Speaker 1: touched on that, there's not enough and there's not enough

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Speaker 1: resources there. So I think it is a discussion that

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Speaker 1: does need to continue to be had, Mark Turner, we

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Speaker 1: are going to have to leave it there for this morning.

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Speaker 2: Really appreciate your time. Thanks so much for joining us, No.

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Speaker 3: Thanks having me on Katie.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, you two