1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Jersey and Amanda jam Nation. 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty two, Lynette Dawson vanished from her Northern 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 2: Beaches home, leaving behind her two daughters and a mystery 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 2: that we're going for decades. It took a podcast called 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 2: The Teacher's Pet to spark a global interest in this case, 6 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 2: which then led to her husband's conviction of murder. Well now, 7 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 2: the creator, an award winning journalist of the podcast, Hedley Thomas, 8 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 2: has released a book which takes us behind the scenes 9 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 2: of one of the most intriguing and enduring murder mysteries 10 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 2: of our time. 11 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: Headley, Hi, Hi, Amanda, it's quite the book. 12 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,959 Speaker 2: Oh quite a sorry, I know. Is it so fair 13 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 2: to say if you hadn't created the podcast, Chris Dawson 14 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 2: would be walking free today. 15 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: Look, it's one of those really big questions. I think 16 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: Lynn's family certainly are certain of that. If you talk 17 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 1: to police, they'd probably say, well, I reckon, we would 18 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: have got in anyway. I don't want to attempt to 19 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: claim credit for it. I just know that we shine 20 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: a very bright light on this case. We made a 21 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: powerful difference, and it left the DPP with I think 22 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 1: an opportunity to go forward and they did eventually, after 23 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: many knockbacks by that same DPP. 24 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 2: You started this podcast in twenty eighteen. How did you 25 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,839 Speaker 2: come across this case? It would have been a cold 26 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: case by then. How did you find out about it? 27 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: I found out about it in two thousand and one 28 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: when I was a features writer and I was in Brisbane. 29 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: I wanted to understand more about it because in two 30 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: thousand and one it was an inquest, the first inquest 31 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: that was being held into her presumed death, and it 32 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: was just so compelling it gripped me. I went to 33 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: Sydney in two thousand and one wrote about it then, 34 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: and back then I thought I should do a book 35 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: on this, but life got in the way. I got busy, 36 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: my wife had another child, and we were just so 37 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: frantic with everything else, and the book went on hold. 38 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: But then we get to late twenty seventeen and everybody 39 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: had started listening to podcasts talking about podcasts, and I 40 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: realized the story that I wanted to unpack much more 41 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: fully years earlier, I could do as a podcast investigation. 42 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: And it's a double edged sword as well, because legally 43 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 2: there's so many how Chris Dawson could have got away 44 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 2: with it because it was out there in the public forum. 45 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we had to take enormous risks with the podcast, 46 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: and we were effectively calling Chris Dawson out as a 47 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: murderer who'd got away with wife killing. And you know, 48 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: that took a lot of behind the scenes consultations and 49 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: our lawyers were a bit nervous and editors too. But 50 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: the book tries to unpack a lot of that detail 51 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: how we take on a major investigation like this and 52 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 1: really push it to the limits. 53 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 2: So so many people have listened to the podcast, what 54 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 2: will we get from the book that we don't know already? 55 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: As trend dot and my friend the Amazing said, if 56 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: you think you know the story, I think again. He's 57 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: read it and he was blown away. It's a memoir 58 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: of journalism, but it's also a very deep dive into 59 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: all the things that I couldn't talk about during the podcast. 60 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: There's so many interviews that I did, people, I spoke to, 61 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 1: information that I came across. Because of the pace that 62 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: the podcast was going at, I didn't get a chance 63 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: to properly reflect. And I also wanted to deal with 64 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: some personal motives that I had for telling the story 65 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: and I've never disclosed these before, and I wanted to 66 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: do it in a thoughtful way in a book and 67 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: a sensitive way years later. So there's a lot of 68 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: I guess, vulnerability in there as well. But for people 69 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: who appreciate journalism and appreciate how journalism can change things 70 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: and affect the criminal justice system in a positive way, 71 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: there's a lot to read. 72 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 2: One of your chapter titles got some fruity language in it. 73 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: What's that one about? 74 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: That's the one that says heavily, you're an effing wayker. 75 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: That comes from a quote from one of the Dawson 76 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: brothers during a police telephone intercept. The telephone was being 77 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: tapped during the podcast's rollout, and when the transcripts were 78 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: released during the murder trial last year, the conversation between 79 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: Chris and Paul became particularly colorful and angry when they 80 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: were describing what they were hearing in my podcast. And 81 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: I'd done a number of other interviews, television interviews, and 82 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: so I'm where I had said that Chris Dawson should 83 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: be prosecuted, that he almost certainly got away with murder, 84 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: And of course they then were venting, And I don't 85 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: blame them for being angry with me. I made their 86 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: lives hell. 87 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,119 Speaker 2: Well, they're not going to write a review for your books. 88 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: I guess not a good I wonder if Chris could 89 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: get it the wrong day. 90 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: That makes a nice light reading, wouldn't it. 91 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: Just well, Headley, it's. 92 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 2: Great to talk to. You can purchase The Teacher's Pet from. 93 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: All Good Books. 94 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: Sounds extraordinary, Headley Thomas, thank 95 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: You, Thank you so much, really appreciate it.