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Speaker 1: I've began reading about rights of passage and when we,

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Speaker 1: as the elders in society, don't create them and give

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Speaker 1: them to the youth, they end up sort of making

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Speaker 1: their own.

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Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time,

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Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants Answers Now.

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Speaker 3: Hello.

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Speaker 2: My name's doctor Justin Coulson. I'm dad to six daughters,

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Speaker 2: the author of six books about raising families to be

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Speaker 2: happy Missus Happy Families. Kylie, my co host, is not

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Speaker 2: with me today. She's had to pop out and do

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Speaker 2: some I don't know, some mum stuff, and I'm left

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Speaker 2: alone to have a conversation with somebody that I've known

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Speaker 2: on and off through social media for probably the last

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Speaker 2: half a dozen years, somebody who does what I think

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Speaker 2: is incredibly imperative work, and I've brought him into the

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Speaker 2: podcast today, this podcast for the time, poor parent who

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Speaker 2: just wants answers Now, because I've been troubled with all

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Speaker 2: of the comments that I've had from people about that,

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Speaker 2: you know, that year twelve makeup Day scavenger hunt list

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Speaker 2: story that we've talked about on the podcast once already

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Speaker 2: last week, but just doesn't seem to be leaving the news,

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Speaker 2: there's a bit of a stench about it. The man's

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Speaker 2: name is Andrew Lynes. And Andrew is the owner, the director,

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Speaker 2: the guy in charge of a business that's called The

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Speaker 2: Right Journey R. The Right Journey.

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Speaker 3: Andrew. So good of you to be with me today.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for joining in.

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Speaker 1: It's great to be here, Justin. Thanks for having me, Andrew.

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Speaker 2: For people, and I know that a lot of people

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Speaker 2: will know who you are because your social media presence

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Speaker 2: is really strong, but there's also going to be a

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Speaker 2: handful of people that have never heard of Andrew Lynes

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Speaker 2: and The Right Journey.

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Speaker 3: Tell everyone a bit about what.

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Speaker 1: You do, yeah, Justin. So, I am a teacher by trade,

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Speaker 1: and many years ago, back in the late nineties, I

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Speaker 1: became concerned about how the boys, especially at that point

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Speaker 1: in my school, were going, and I sort of felt

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Speaker 1: like many of them didn't have sort of father figures around.

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Speaker 1: Some of them had step dads that they didn't get

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Speaker 1: along with. And at the time, I was reading Steve

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Speaker 1: Bitoff's The New Manhood Book and he spoke about teachers

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Speaker 1: playing a co parenting role with the boys. So I

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Speaker 1: became interested in what conversations I could have with these

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Speaker 1: young fellas and just help them become better young men.

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Speaker 1: Really was how it started. And so the school was

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Speaker 1: very generous and gave me a little bit of time

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Speaker 1: to create a program for the boys. And then I

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Speaker 1: became fascinated having done that for a few years with

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Speaker 1: the idea of a right of passage and some kind

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Speaker 1: of initiation process. I was talking to the boys about

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Speaker 1: what it might be to be a better guy, but

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Speaker 1: I felt like that was filling their heads, and I

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Speaker 1: wanted to have a deeper sort of heart, sort of

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Speaker 1: spirit connection with them. And I began reading about rights

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Speaker 1: of passage and became aware that in our current contemporary

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Speaker 1: culture here, certainly in my circle of friends and connections,

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Speaker 1: we didn't do this with our kids. We didn't actually

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Speaker 1: initiate them into adulthood. And so I looked at how

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Speaker 1: we could do that in a contemporary setting. And that

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Speaker 1: was back in the early two thousands by then, and

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Speaker 1: our school began to do that, and then some other

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Speaker 1: schools became interested, and so I've dropped out of teaching

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Speaker 1: now and my main work is working with schools to

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Speaker 1: help them create rights of passage processes for the young

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Speaker 1: people to help them develop into responsible and resilient young adults.

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Speaker 2: I'm smiling to myself as you say that, because I'm thinking,

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Speaker 2: I can imagine you could have some really fun initiation

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Speaker 2: ceremonies as they make their way into adult I'm sure

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Speaker 2: that you don't do any of the crazy stuff, But

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Speaker 2: the rights of passage that have traditionally been anthropologically part

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Speaker 2: of what we do as humans, they're just not really

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Speaker 2: nearly as visible or present in today's world as what

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Speaker 2: we understand they would have been historically.

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Speaker 1: That's right, yeah, just in contemporary culture. What we're noticing,

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Speaker 1: and which we'll lead into what we're about to talk about,

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Speaker 1: is that you know, when we, as the elders in

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Speaker 1: a society don't offer that don't create them and give

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Speaker 1: them to the youth, they end up sort of making

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Speaker 1: their own. They want to prove that they're adults, but

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Speaker 1: they generally choose ways that aren't terribly healthy to be

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Speaker 1: doing that.

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Speaker 2: So when you look at these year twelve Scavenger Hunt lists,

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Speaker 2: these kids from both public and private schools, from both

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Speaker 2: girls and boys' schools, who are creating these lists for

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Speaker 2: what they're going to do on muck up Day and

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Speaker 2: how they're going to score points by spitting on a

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Speaker 2: homeless person or punching a stranger in the head for

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Speaker 2: absolutely no reason for leaving their human waste on a

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Speaker 2: train or a bus.

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Speaker 3: This stuffs. It's foul.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's just so putrid. And what I'm hearing

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Speaker 2: you say is you think this is at least in

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Speaker 2: part related to a lack of ritual and a lack

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Speaker 2: of transition I guess from childhood to adulthood and healthy

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Speaker 2: ways that adults have designated.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, one of the key parts of

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Speaker 1: these rights across the eons has been a ch lenge.

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Speaker 1: Like there's been challenges, often physical challenges that are given

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Speaker 1: to the young people that they need to overcome to

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Speaker 1: then move through into adulthood. And I almost see that

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Speaker 1: when we're not giving them these challenges, that the kids

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Speaker 1: will create them theirselves, and that this is what they've

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Speaker 1: done in this case, is they've created something that's a challenge.

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Speaker 1: It's something that gets the adrenaline going. But it's typically

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Speaker 1: the challenges weren't completely disrespectful to other people in their community,

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Speaker 1: which these obviously are.

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Speaker 2: Do you think there's any other reasons that they're doing this, Andrew,

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Speaker 2: or is it just about the ritual and the adrenaline.

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Speaker 2: The I'm trying to prove that I'm an independent human

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Speaker 2: that can make my own decisions.

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Speaker 1: I think given the shift in society and the advent

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Speaker 1: of social media, I think that also plays a little

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Speaker 1: bit into what's going on here. I believe that I

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Speaker 1: sort of when I'm working with parents or mentioned that

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Speaker 1: when I was a young person, I wasn't competing with

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Speaker 1: the rest of the world. I wasn't competing with all

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Speaker 1: of Instagram. I just was competing with really the kids

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Speaker 1: in my community, the kids in my school. So if

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Speaker 1: I was to do the most risky thing, I would

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Speaker 1: only know about the risky things that the three hundred

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Speaker 1: kids at my school did. And one of the things

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Speaker 1: I believe that's happening in this day and age is

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Speaker 1: that kids have so much more access to these kind

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Speaker 1: of things and the need want to impress to be

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Speaker 1: seen a certain way. That that also plays into a

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Speaker 1: little bit as well.

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Speaker 2: I'm hearing people say that it's also about brain development.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure that I buy that. I know that

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Speaker 2: there's plenty of kids who aren't making these lists and

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Speaker 2: aren't getting caught up in it. I know that the

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Speaker 2: emotional brain can override the cognitive thinking part of the brain,

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Speaker 2: and that can happen no matter whether you're two or

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Speaker 2: fifty two. But I struggled with that brain development. Excuse

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Speaker 2: what's your taking?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I know that we do know that

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Speaker 1: that brain development for the prefrontal cortex being the very

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Speaker 1: last reform and often isn't until mid twenties. I think

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Speaker 1: it may have something to do with it. I do

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Speaker 1: think that the tribal the idea of the tribal things,

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Speaker 1: and the fact that someone has instigated it, whether these

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Speaker 1: things have been in existence for a number of years,

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Speaker 1: but you know, the inability for perhaps these young men

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Speaker 1: and women to stand up and say, actually, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to have nothing to do with that. I

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Speaker 1: believe that there are times where that sort of tribal

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Speaker 1: instinct comes in and it's hard for the kids to

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Speaker 1: step back. Perhaps we haven't spent enough time educating them

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Speaker 1: on how to say no in those instances and building

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Speaker 1: that sort of values system, but also being willing to

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Speaker 1: call people out and say, look, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: be involved with that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the need to belong, it's just it's so strong

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Speaker 2: and it's got to be impacting these decisions. The great

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Speaker 2: news is that very very rarely do these kids actually

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Speaker 2: fulfill too many of these illegal and dangerous and unsafe

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Speaker 2: activities that are on the scavenger hunt lists. They tend

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Speaker 2: to stay with the same for kind of activities. As

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Speaker 2: a general rule, though, there's a very small percentage of

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Speaker 2: people who are.

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Speaker 3: Always going to go too far.

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Speaker 2: What do you think the parents need to know to

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Speaker 2: be able to deal with this effectively if they've got

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Speaker 2: kids who are moving towards the end of year twelve

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Speaker 2: and the possibility that they might be involved in makeup

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Speaker 2: days themselves.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think conversations are really important. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think back to what happened when I was in year twelve.

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Speaker 1: I actually have a son who's doing year twelve this year,

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Speaker 1: so we've had a little bit of a chat about that,

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Speaker 1: a bit of a chat about you know, what might

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Speaker 1: be something that might take account of moving into that

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Speaker 1: next stage but might not be disrespectful to other people,

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Speaker 1: how you can enjoy that. But I think also giving

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Speaker 1: kids opportunities to celebrate really at the end of year twelve,

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Speaker 1: this is partly what it's about. It's one of those

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Speaker 1: very important rights where it's a transition from out of

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Speaker 1: the schooling system into the adult world or into tertiary education,

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Speaker 1: and it's really natural that kids want to want to

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Speaker 1: do something to celebrate that, to honor that moment. I

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Speaker 1: believe schools could actually play a much larger role in that.

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Speaker 1: And I think, you know, the advent of school is

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Speaker 1: is actually again that's a the kids taking into hand

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Speaker 1: creating their own ritual. And we know that's been going

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Speaker 1: on for many years. But partly that's because we haven't

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Speaker 1: offered them something that feels that need for them. And

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Speaker 1: again I come back to the fact that it's actually

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Speaker 1: the elder's role in a society. You know, if we're

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Speaker 1: complaining about what these kids are doing, the fact is

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Speaker 1: we haven't given them the alternative, and that's really our

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Speaker 1: role as the elders. So I think that in schools

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Speaker 1: they could be working towards what kind of even trips

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Speaker 1: away they might do. I know there are some schools

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Speaker 1: that offer alternative schoolies processes. We were going to be

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Speaker 1: running our first alternative schoolies camps this year. Is the

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Speaker 1: right journey, except COVID put a stop to that.

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Speaker 3: But we put a stop to.

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Speaker 1: But I think that, you know, giving students the opportunity

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Speaker 1: for some kind of alternative, and it does need to

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Speaker 1: meet the things that they're wanting, so you know, we

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Speaker 1: need to think and maybe sit with them and co

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Speaker 1: organize something. But I think I really encourage schools and

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Speaker 1: even parents to at what can we do to want

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Speaker 1: of this moment, to give the kids something of what

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Speaker 1: they're hoping to get from it, but to sort of

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Speaker 1: rescue them from stepping too far over the edge.

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Speaker 2: Now, Andrew, just over a week ago, my year twelve daughter,

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Speaker 2: my second daughter, to finish high school.

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Speaker 3: She had her end of year celebration.

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Speaker 2: They had their formal Because we're in Queensland, we were

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Speaker 2: able to actually have those formal celebrations and just the

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Speaker 2: sense of ritual, the tradition, the feeling that this is

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Speaker 2: a symbol of what's occurred over the last twelve or

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Speaker 2: thirteen years of schooling.

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Speaker 3: It was a really big deal and it was great

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Speaker 3: that she was able to do that.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious what about those kids who were in places

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Speaker 2: where there have been lockdown restrictions and regulations that are

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Speaker 2: preventing them from having the opportunity to have these rituals,

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Speaker 2: these celebrations these traditions. What would you say to parents

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Speaker 2: about that.

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Speaker 1: I work with a number of schools in Melbourne who

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Speaker 1: I believe are postponing those celebrations through until March or

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Speaker 1: April next year, and they hope that they'll be able

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Speaker 1: to do them. So I think hopefully the schools will

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Speaker 1: perhaps be able to honor them at some point. But

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Speaker 1: I think within families, I think it's really important that

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Speaker 1: we create something for our kids that's going to, you know,

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Speaker 1: take the place of what would happen, and you know,

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Speaker 1: whether that's hopefully at some point that there's either a

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Speaker 1: meal out or you might be able to have a

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Speaker 1: special event at your home if you're not able to

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Speaker 1: get out to restaurants. But I do think it's really

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Speaker 1: important to consider, you know, what that might be, how

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Speaker 1: it might look, perhaps a gift or something that's meaningful

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Speaker 1: that you'd like to get your child. So I believe

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Speaker 1: that we can create these rituals and given the context,

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Speaker 1: if it needs to be changed a little bit, then

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Speaker 1: you know that we have to take that into account.

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Speaker 1: But I do think it's all possible, and I really

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Speaker 1: do encourage parents to have a think about how that

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Speaker 1: might look.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate those ideas, Andrew, thanks for sharing them

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Speaker 2: with me. If people want more information about Andrew Lines

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Speaker 2: and The Right Journey, how can they find that.

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Speaker 1: So we have a website which is the Right Journey

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Speaker 1: dot com and there's plenty of information there and if

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Speaker 1: they'd like to contact me, there's a contact page there.

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Speaker 1: They're welcome to send through any questions that they might have.

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Speaker 2: Awesome, So that's the Right Journey Rie, the Right Journey

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Speaker 2: dot Com.

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Speaker 3: Andrew, great talking to you, Thanks so much for joining in.

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Speaker 1: Pleasure to be here justin thanks for the chat.

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Speaker 2: Well, we hope that you enjoy the podcast and the

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Speaker 2: changes that we've been making, and we hope that you

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Speaker 2: feel like you're increasingly part of the Happy Famili's family.

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Speaker 2: If you are enjoying what we're doing, please go to

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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts and leave a rating and a review. It's

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Speaker 2: those reviews that help people find the podcast and have

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Speaker 2: happier families, or, in the case of Andrew Lyns and

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Speaker 2: The Right Journey, work out how to create some rituals

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Speaker 2: that are going to help the kids to get through

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Speaker 2: the year end and grow up into great men and

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Speaker 2: women from the boys and girls that they are. If

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Speaker 2: you'd like more information about how we can help your

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Speaker 2: family flourish, go to happy families dot com dot you

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Speaker 2: and click on memberships, Or you can visit the Facebook

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Speaker 2: page doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families