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Speaker 1: Now joining us on the line right now is Murray.

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Speaker 1: What he is the Shadow Minister for Northern Australia, Senator Murray.

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Speaker 1: What good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good hey, Katie, good to talk to you then, now.

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Speaker 1: Mate, I know that there's been some you know, I

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Speaker 1: guess you'd have to say that there's been some discussion

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Speaker 1: and issues around the KNAFE, the North Australia Infrastructure Facility

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Speaker 1: for quite some time, but things sort of here's a

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Speaker 1: bit of a bizarre ode. I think last week with

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Speaker 1: the resignation of the KNAFE CEO, has there been any

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Speaker 1: insight at this point as to why he's resigned or

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Speaker 1: what's happened.

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Speaker 2: No, it's still a bit of a mystery, Katie. What

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Speaker 2: happened last week was that twenty four hours before the

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Speaker 2: NAFE was preparing to give evidence that the third Estimates

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Speaker 2: hearing in camera, we all found out that the NAFE

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Speaker 2: CEO had resigned immediately And still no reason has been

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Speaker 2: given for why this CEO of a very important, well

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Speaker 2: funded government organization has resigned, let alone why he had

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Speaker 2: to resign immediately. Basically, staff found out about this via

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Speaker 2: an email from the board chair Tracy Hayes, which they

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Speaker 2: received late Wednesday afternoon, and no reason was given for

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Speaker 2: why the CEO left. He didn't actually get a chance

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Speaker 2: to speak to staff, to email staff himself. So it's

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Speaker 2: all a bit of a mystery, and I think unfortunately

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Speaker 2: it's just another blow to what's been a really troubled organization.

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Speaker 1: And so how then, did you know, did the Senate

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Speaker 1: Estimates Committee? Like, how did that hearing then go without

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Speaker 1: having the CEO in there? I know that somebody else

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Speaker 1: had stepped in, but was there much information gleaned?

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Speaker 2: Well, it did make it things a little bit tricky.

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Speaker 2: I commend the acting CEO, who fronts up to estimates

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Speaker 2: and did what she could to answer all of our

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Speaker 2: question at very short notice, but it did mean that

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Speaker 2: we had to spend a lot of a hearing actually

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Speaker 2: just trying to understand why there'd been this leadership change.

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Speaker 2: I think you and I have talked before, Katie about

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Speaker 2: the problems that we've seen with the Knife. You know,

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Speaker 2: this is a five billion dollar organization that was an

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Speaker 2: out six years ago, and one thing we did find

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Speaker 2: out the other night was that it's still only actually

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Speaker 2: released a bit over four hundred million dollars of its

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Speaker 2: five billion dollar budget. So after six years after it

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Speaker 2: was announced, it's actually released less than ten percent of

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Speaker 2: its budget to invest in projects and create jobs across

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Speaker 2: the North. So that's the biggest problem I think with

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Speaker 2: having this CEO resign so suddenly without any explanation, is

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Speaker 2: that this is an organization that's been in deep trouble

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Speaker 2: for a while. There's a reason people call it the

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Speaker 2: no actual infrastructure Funds and that's sick or that just

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Speaker 2: isn't really producing the results with the government promise. Now

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Speaker 2: unfortunately it has no actual CEO either.

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Speaker 1: May do you think he was pushed?

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Speaker 2: Look, I really don't know. I've heard all sorts of

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Speaker 2: rumors about what might have happened, but it's probably not

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Speaker 2: appropriate to go into what they might be because they

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Speaker 2: mail they not be true. But you know, one of

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Speaker 2: the things that we had been hearing is that there

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Speaker 2: has been sort of increased politics of the KNAFE. We're

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Speaker 2: obviously getting closer to an election, probably in the early

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Speaker 2: new year. Let's face it, the National Party who oversees

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Speaker 2: this fund have a pretty poor record when it comes

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Speaker 2: to routing public funds and try to use them for

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Speaker 2: their political ends. There are some very political people now

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Speaker 2: involved with the KNAFE. So I am concerned about those

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Speaker 2: kind of reports and I think it's really up to

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Speaker 2: the Minister, David Little Proud to front up and explain

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Speaker 2: why a CEO who's being paid over four hundred thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars a year to run this organization has suddenly departed.

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Speaker 2: I think we deserve to know why, and we deserve

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Speaker 2: to know what he and his government are going to

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Speaker 2: do to get the NAFE on track.

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Speaker 1: I mean when you say there's been some political appointments,

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Speaker 1: obviously we know that Tracy Hayes is now the chair

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Speaker 1: of the KNAFE, very highly respected territorium. But she did

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Speaker 1: indeed run against the Chief Minister, Michael Gunner here in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory for the seat of Fanny Bay at

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Speaker 1: the last election. Is that what you mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I think you know. Everything I've ever seen

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Speaker 2: and heard about Tracy Hayes is that she's a capable person.

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Speaker 2: But there's also no doubting where she lines up politically.

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Speaker 2: And what we found out at one of the previous

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Speaker 2: Estimates hearings was that the then Minutes that for Northern

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Speaker 2: Australia didn't even bother appointing a recruitment consultant to try

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Speaker 2: to find a new chair of the NAFE. That's a

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Speaker 2: position in itself that's paid about one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars a year, so not a bad income and

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Speaker 2: a pretty important position. And he didn't really even get

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Speaker 2: his department to do some proper consultation about who the

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Speaker 2: chair would be. So I think, you know, clearly this

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Speaker 2: is a political appointment. I don't debate whether Ms Hayes

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Speaker 2: has ability or not, but you know, also she's clearly

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Speaker 2: a political appointment. There are other people with very strong

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Speaker 2: ties to the COLP and the National Party involved with

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Speaker 2: the Knife as well, and I think we just need

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Speaker 2: to make sure that public money is being spent properly

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Speaker 2: and we don't see a continuation of this government for

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Speaker 2: Morrison government US taxpayers money as if it's Liberal and

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Speaker 2: National Party money.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it is a very big call. Obviously, she

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Speaker 1: is highly respected here in the Northern Territory and you know,

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Speaker 1: has a great deal of experience in Northern Australia, so

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Speaker 1: it is a big call. I suppose to say that

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Speaker 1: she's only been appointed due to that political alliance.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, what I'm saying is that she is a

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Speaker 2: capable individual who has strong political ties, and that we

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Speaker 2: need to make sure that the NACE doesn't go down

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Speaker 2: the same track of what we've seen from other government

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Speaker 2: funding bodies under this government, which is that they've misused

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Speaker 2: taxpayers funds. These are important funds that taxpayers work hard

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Speaker 2: to produce for the government and we need to make

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Speaker 2: sure that the projects that are being funded are the

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Speaker 2: best ones. And again I think it would just help

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Speaker 2: everyone if we could get an explanation from the Minister

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Speaker 2: about why the CEO has departed and whether these are

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Speaker 2: ports of politicization of the AFAR trouth.

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Speaker 1: Well, it is certainly, you know, certainly very interesting and

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Speaker 1: I do agree that you know, we want the KNAVE

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Speaker 1: to be as well as effective as possible. We want

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Speaker 1: to make sure that there is as much flowing out

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Speaker 1: into the Northern Territory and indeed all of Northern Australia

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Speaker 1: as possible, and that the Navy is working to ensure that.

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Speaker 1: We've you know, we've got plenty of different projects rolling

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Speaker 1: out in Northern Australia for sure.

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Speaker 2: No, that's what this one was invented for. When the

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Speaker 2: government created it six years ago. They made all sorts

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Speaker 2: of promises about the jobs that would be created and

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Speaker 2: the projects that would be funded, and unfortunately we just

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Speaker 2: haven't seen en upcome from it. It's time the Minister

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Speaker 2: really took some action to get this body working properly.

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Speaker 1: I do want to ask you. I know that there's

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Speaker 1: also been some new revelations about the Emergency Response Fund,

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Speaker 1: which is quite timely given the start of the cyclone season,

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Speaker 1: as they've been questioning through the Senate or where has

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Speaker 1: this information been gleaned and what is it found?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was one of the other things that came

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Speaker 2: out into andestimates last week, Katie. And it is as

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Speaker 2: if there's a pattern here where we've got all sorts

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Speaker 2: of fun being an ounce by the government and press

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Speaker 2: releases and press conferences and ribbons being cut, but nothing

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Speaker 2: actually then happening. We know that this season we're facing

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Speaker 2: lenanor conditions which means an increased chance of cyclones and floods,

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Speaker 2: particularly in Northern Australia. And unfortunately, what we've found out

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Speaker 2: is that this four billion dollar funds that the government

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Speaker 2: created over two years ago, called the Emergency Response Fund,

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Speaker 2: that was set up in order to fund disaster recovery

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Speaker 2: and mitigation and prevention activities, and yet again we find

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Speaker 2: that there's a government fund that hasn't spent a single sense.

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Speaker 2: So this thing's been going for over two years. Over

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Speaker 2: that period of time, it could have invested in cyclone shelters,

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Speaker 2: in flood levees, in all sorts of disaster prevention measures,

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Speaker 2: but it hasn't actually released a sin. So again this

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Speaker 2: is just this pattern that we see from the Morrison

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Speaker 2: government where they make sig announcements but they never actually deliver.

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Speaker 2: And I'm just concerned that, you know, we're about to

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Speaker 2: enter another disaster season, we're expecting serious conditions and we've

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Speaker 2: missed another opportunity to have projects built that could have

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Speaker 2: been keeping people in the Northern Territory faith well.

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Speaker 1: Senator Murray Watt, that certainly sounds like one which we'll

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Speaker 1: have to keep a very close eye on and ask

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Speaker 1: a few more questions about. Really, good to talk to

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Speaker 1: you this morning. I appreciate your time as always, good

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Speaker 1: on

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Speaker 2: Your plenty, good to talk, Thank you,