Speaker 1: Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr
Speaker 1: the Order Kerney Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before
Speaker 1: we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I
Speaker 1: would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
Speaker 1: of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,
Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming
Speaker 1: through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing
Speaker 1: and the storytelling of you to make a difference for
Speaker 1: today and lasting impact for tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Let's get into it. She's on the Money, She's on
Speaker 2: the Money.
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
Speaker 3: for millennials who want financial freedom. Two weeks ago we
Speaker 3: did an episode on the cost of care with Rhiann
Speaker 3: and Tracy, who was so good.
Speaker 2: That was such a great episode us.
Speaker 3: We covered a whole range of diseases and injuries and
Speaker 3: looked at the real and very hidden costs of living
Speaker 3: with these conditions. It was such a huge episode and
Speaker 3: so eye opening, so I recommend taking a listen if
Speaker 3: you haven't already. But we just wanted to do a
Speaker 3: few more episodes focusing on particular conditions because there is
Speaker 3: so much to learn and discuss. Today. We're looking at
Speaker 3: mental health, the stats, the hidden and real costs, and
Speaker 3: so much more. My name is Beck and with me
Speaker 3: is Victoria Devine.
Speaker 2: Hello, my love, how are you?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 2: I'm pretty nice and chills. Oh, you're pretty nice today.
Speaker 3: I feel like, you know, when you're like a slightly sleepy,
Speaker 3: but not enough to be like tired, tired, You're just
Speaker 3: kind of in a chill.
Speaker 4: No, the second I get slightly slightly I'm like, does
Speaker 4: this man, I get to go to bed? Any excuse
Speaker 4: to go to bed? Mental health goback? Okay, because I
Speaker 4: am wildly passionate about this topic, but also just about
Speaker 4: talking about insurance and talking about protecting ourselves and putting
Speaker 4: ourselves in the best possible position. And you already know
Speaker 4: because I have drummed this into you that as Australians
Speaker 4: we are some of the most underinsured people in the
Speaker 4: entire world. But also I really hope that by talking
Speaker 4: about the realities of the costs behind these illnesses and conditions,
Speaker 4: we can actually really help open up conversation about the
Speaker 4: realities of living with these conditions and the stigma that
Speaker 4: currently and still unfortunately surrounds them, and mental health is
Speaker 4: something that is so close to my own heart.
Speaker 2: So before we get.
Speaker 4: Even further into this, I do think that this episode
Speaker 4: deserves a content warning. So if the discussion around mental
Speaker 4: health and the topic of suicide is not going to
Speaker 4: be a conversation you want to have today, that is
Speaker 4: totally fine, my loves. I have put some resources in
Speaker 4: our show notes to make sure that you can reach
Speaker 4: out for the support that you need and deserve. But
Speaker 4: also don't feel bad to just skip this episode skip ahead.
Speaker 4: Turns out, beg, We've got a lot of other episodes
Speaker 4: you can listen to that won't talk about those topics.
Speaker 2: You won't be missing out.
Speaker 4: No, you won't be missing I mean hopefully you will
Speaker 4: be missing out because it's a really good topic. I
Speaker 4: think that, yeah, there's a time and a place for
Speaker 4: conversations like that, and if you're not in the headspace
Speaker 4: for it, don't do it because it's not worth it.
Speaker 3: Totally fine, that's very well said. Be So that actually
Speaker 3: is ought to get to today. But what is a
Speaker 3: snapshot of the prevalence of mental health conditions in Australia.
Speaker 4: So I've gone on and on about this. The cost
Speaker 4: of care white paper by Zurich is one of my
Speaker 4: favorite white papers ever produced because we really didn't have
Speaker 4: enough insight into the cost of these conditions before that
Speaker 4: we could google it and like there was I guess,
Speaker 4: you know, eclectic resources on this, but there wasn't like
Speaker 4: one paper that had really focused on it. And I mean,
Speaker 4: this paper was done a few years ago, and I'm
Speaker 4: absolutely certain that they are probably going to re release
Speaker 4: one at some point. I would love to see one
Speaker 4: on the cost of mental health during COVID. I feel
Speaker 4: like that would be a really interesting read. And as
Speaker 4: an ex financial advisor, I obviously had a lot of
Speaker 4: exposure to this side of it, and I don't think
Speaker 4: the general public goes you know.
Speaker 2: What I'm going to do.
Speaker 4: I'm going to go to an insurer's website. I'm going
Speaker 4: to read their white papers on the cost of care.
Speaker 4: But a promise it's really exciting, riveting stuff, and this
Speaker 4: white paper, I guess to go more into it. It
Speaker 4: talked about the cost of care of mental health.
Speaker 3: So forty five point five percent of the total population
Speaker 3: beck experience a mental health condition at some point in
Speaker 3: their life.
Speaker 2: Half of us. Well, it slower than I thought.
Speaker 3: I kind of think it's lower, and I know that
Speaker 3: it should be like it's a big number and it
Speaker 3: should be like, oh my gosh, that's a lite.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just feel like it's I don't know. I'm
Speaker 4: not going to disagree with Zurich because they're actual, genuine researchers.
Speaker 4: I'm just a plub x financial advisor who was given
Speaker 4: a podcast like I don't even know how that happened.
Speaker 2: Still, but I just feel like I just keep it health.
Speaker 4: Yeah. No, I really don't get it, like it's like
Speaker 4: imposter syndrome, but like it's not imposter syndrome. I'm genuinely
Speaker 4: an imposta, Like I don't suggest.
Speaker 2: A postra no no syndrome.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I guess when we talk about forty five point five
Speaker 4: percent of the total population experiencing a mental health condition,
Speaker 4: one hundred percent of us, from my perspective, have mental health.
Speaker 4: Whether we have a conditional or not is going to
Speaker 4: depend a lot on our medical history and the circumstances
Speaker 4: we are exposed to, and the environment that we grow
Speaker 4: up in and the environments that we experience and the
Speaker 4: events that we go through and the trauma that we experience.
Speaker 4: And there's so many things, right, but from my perspective,
Speaker 4: every single one of us has mental health, and we
Speaker 4: either have really good mental health and you're very, very lucky,
Speaker 4: or you experience some you know, mental health issues along
Speaker 4: the way. So I think that's important to differentiate at
Speaker 4: the start, like you don't just not have mental health
Speaker 4: like we all do. The prevalence means it actually shares
Speaker 4: the stage beack with cancer and heart disease as a
Speaker 4: group of high impact medical life disruptors, and mental health
Speaker 4: conditions are present in all ages and in all socioeconomic groups,
Speaker 4: which I don't think is going to come as a
Speaker 4: surprise to any of us. Mental health conditions can include
Speaker 4: effective disorders, so things like depression and bipolar and schizophrenia,
Speaker 4: anxiety disorders including panic attacks and stress disorders, and substance
Speaker 4: abuse disorders so alcohol and drug dependencies fall under this.
Speaker 4: One in six women and one in eight men beck
Speaker 4: will experience depression during their lifetime, and one in three
Speaker 4: women and one in five men will experience anxiety. Mental
Speaker 4: health conditions are most common in those aged between twenty
Speaker 4: five and thirty four years old, affecting nearly one in
Speaker 4: four and this then declines with age, and they affect
Speaker 4: women more than men across all age groups and those
Speaker 4: living in rural areas. And individuals spend and estimated thirteen
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty dollars per year out of pocket for
Speaker 4: mental health conditions, with medications accounting for one third of
Speaker 4: these cost Wow, isn't that wild.
Speaker 3: Have you had any experience with kind of like the
Speaker 3: i'd say, prescribed mental health drug?
Speaker 2: Yes, I have.
Speaker 4: I guess you're new here, so welcome to you know,
Speaker 4: a little bit of a deep dive into Victoria's medical history.
Speaker 4: So I have been diagnosed with clinical depression and anxiety.
Speaker 4: I also have ADHD and have a mental health history
Speaker 4: of eating disorders.
Speaker 2: So I was hospitalized.
Speaker 4: In my teenage years for a significant period of time
Speaker 4: for anorexia. And that is something that you know on
Speaker 4: previous episodes I've spoken about and I think it's just
Speaker 4: so important to just address it. I don't think it
Speaker 4: changes my value as a human being. I don't think
Speaker 4: it changes anything about the way you should view me.
Speaker 4: In fact, I think that those experiences have just made
Speaker 4: my experience richer. Right, And when I talk about a
Speaker 4: topic like this, I am speaking from experience, I have
Speaker 4: been medicated since the age of fourteen for depression and anxiety.
Speaker 4: I've tried a number of different medications, and I'm still
Speaker 4: on a medication today, and I take what I guess
Speaker 4: doctors would deem a relatively high dosage of depression and
Speaker 4: anxiety medication. And I strongly believe I'm never coming off
Speaker 4: that I have tried coming off that, because there have
Speaker 4: been periods of my life where I go, I don't
Speaker 4: want to be medicated, like and there's the stigma that
Speaker 4: you apply to yourself when you're like, I don't need
Speaker 4: this medication anymore.
Speaker 2: But I guess.
Speaker 4: Now the period of my life that I am in,
Speaker 4: I have come to the realization that my medication for
Speaker 4: my anxiety and my depression is actually a bit like
Speaker 4: the medication a diabetic would have, right, and a diabetic
Speaker 4: it doesn't have enough insulin to make their body function properly. Right,
Speaker 4: so you would go, okay, diabetic, here's some insulin.
Speaker 2: And I mean that's a very.
Speaker 4: Basic way of explos They get that their life can
Speaker 4: carry on as normal, and beck you would know, you
Speaker 4: don't just get better and then all of a sudden
Speaker 4: start producing insulin. As a diabetic, you just take that
Speaker 4: for the rest of your life and monitor those levels
Speaker 4: and make sure they're okay.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: I believe the same happens in my brain because my
Speaker 4: depression and anxiety isn't trauma related. It's actually just I
Speaker 4: think it could potentially be just in my genetics. It's
Speaker 4: in my DNA, and I just don't have enough dopamine
Speaker 4: and I don't have enough serotonin in my brain. And
Speaker 4: I take those drugs to make sure that I can
Speaker 4: function at the same level as you can. So from
Speaker 4: my experience, yes, I have had a lot of experience
Speaker 4: with drugs. I have drugs that have worked for me.
Speaker 4: I've had drugs that haven't worked for me. I've had
Speaker 4: to go through a drug withdrawal program because my depression
Speaker 4: drugs were really messing with me. And I also take
Speaker 4: stimulants for my ADHD, but I am not good at
Speaker 4: taking those stimulants because I don't like how they make
Speaker 4: me feel sure, so I avoid them, and that would
Speaker 4: be really, really tough. If there's something that you, I
Speaker 4: guess maybe need is need a strong word.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, I definitely need to need to take them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you don't like the way you feel when
Speaker 3: you take them, and that's just that seems like a
Speaker 3: really unfortunate kind of like catch twenty two.
Speaker 4: It's a massive catch twenty two. And I suppose I'm
Speaker 4: so lucky in that for me medication. I mean, I
Speaker 4: talk about the stigma, right, and I say, oh, I
Speaker 4: went off them because I just didn't want them back.
Speaker 2: I just didn't want.
Speaker 4: To be on medication, Like at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: it's just something I didn't want. But no one really
Speaker 4: wants that, right, Like you don't want to be taking
Speaker 4: insulin for the rest of your life, but you do
Speaker 4: it because you want to be healthy, and that's just
Speaker 4: the key to it.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: So I think for me my need, I don't have
Speaker 4: a choice. If I don't take my anxiety and depression drugs,
Speaker 4: I'm not a functional member of society. I just am
Speaker 4: not I am not happy, I am not kind, I
Speaker 4: am not any of those things. But then if I
Speaker 4: don't take my stimulants, I'm just not as productive. And
Speaker 4: I mean, I feel very luck key to live in
Speaker 4: twenty twenty three and I have access to a plethora
Speaker 4: of research. And I've said this before and it's not
Speaker 4: you know, I don't want to name the supplements I
Speaker 4: take because we've talked about it before. I'm not a doctor,
Speaker 4: and this is me sharing my anecdotal experience, not me
Speaker 4: sharing medical information. And I would hate for you to go,
Speaker 4: oh my gosh. Well, Victorious said on a podcast that
Speaker 4: this particular supplement helped her, Like, that's not from my perspective,
Speaker 4: responsible of me to share that. Just because it works
Speaker 4: for me doesn't mean it will work for you. But
Speaker 4: I have done so much personal research into different supplements
Speaker 4: and like mushrooms, like the non not magic mushrooms, like
Speaker 4: different types of mushrooms and supplements and things that I
Speaker 4: can take that kind of act in a way that
Speaker 4: a stimulant does. And if you're in that circumstance and
Speaker 4: you want to do that, research is really easy to find.
Speaker 2: Like it's not hard.
Speaker 4: It's all over TikTok, it's all over Instagram, it's all
Speaker 4: over Google. You just google it and you can stuck
Speaker 4: going down that rabbit hole and working out what might
Speaker 4: work for you. But sure, yeah, my stimulants I rely
Speaker 4: on maybe like a couple of times a week when
Speaker 4: I can really have to set my mind to something
Speaker 4: or I'm feeling extra agitated or I'm feeling extra bouncy.
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, just like that.
Speaker 4: But like even in this moment, I'm not on my
Speaker 4: stimulants because I think there's so many things going on
Speaker 4: and there's so much structure. Yeah, it's an interesting concept
Speaker 4: when we can talk about I guess totally my experience
Speaker 4: is in more depth at some point in the future. Absolutely,
Speaker 4: those mine. What about your experiences?
Speaker 2: I'm very lucky.
Speaker 3: I don't actually have any not to say that, unicorn.
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, like I don't have any medication that
Speaker 3: I take regularly for anything.
Speaker 2: Money win money, win big money.
Speaker 3: When I feel like there was a moment maybe for
Speaker 3: a year or two there where I was like really
Speaker 3: discovering myself and I had some pretty bad social anxiety,
Speaker 3: but I didn't diagnose it. I didn't know what it was.
Speaker 3: I didn't know why I felt really introverted and stuff.
Speaker 3: So I spent a lot of money on like New
Speaker 3: Tropics and all the weird like you know, not necessarily weird,
Speaker 3: but just like, no, it's weird. I was just obsessed
Speaker 3: with like how do I make my brain feel uninhibited again?
Speaker 3: And so that was probably the most expensive thing but
Speaker 3: as far as this really expensive, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I was gone down the mushroom train as well myself.
Speaker 3: But that's the only thing really I don't I'm very,
Speaker 3: very fortunate to say that I don't have to take
Speaker 3: anything for anything for any reason. And it's very cheap,
Speaker 3: I would think, and we will find out.
Speaker 4: Actually yeah, I mean that's the money when that you're
Speaker 4: not on any medications and don't have any of those
Speaker 4: associated costs. But it's a money loss if you were
Speaker 4: experiencing mental health and you weren't taking the right medications,
Speaker 4: because it ultimately impacts every other aspect of your life, right,
Speaker 4: And I think it's interesting conundrum to be in as well.
Speaker 4: Like even I mean complete tangent again me talking about
Speaker 4: taking a whole heap of supplements. I again so privileged
Speaker 4: to be able to afford these supplements, but like one
Speaker 4: of my bottles that I purchase online. By the way,
Speaker 4: when I'm talking about mushrooms, I feel like I'm crazy, no,
Speaker 4: because it's like something that a lot of people might
Speaker 4: not have heard of. We're not talking medicinal like magic mushrooms.
Speaker 4: We're talking mushrooms that have.
Speaker 2: No no, no, no.
Speaker 4: We're also not talking about cup mushrooms that you buy
Speaker 4: cut or halved at the supermarket. Yeah, anyway, we won't
Speaker 4: go on and on about that. But that's like one
Speaker 4: hundred and ten dollars a bottle for me, and I
Speaker 4: go through a bottle every month, and that's a privilege
Speaker 4: for me to be able to rely on that instead
Speaker 4: of on my stimulants, because that helps me get through.
Speaker 2: But like, I'm also a.
Speaker 4: Bit of a health nut, and I make sure I
Speaker 4: have all my amigas, and I make sure that I
Speaker 4: you know, a lot of natural paths are going to be.
Speaker 4: Like you don't need to take a multi vitamin, Victoria,
Speaker 4: But like there are a whole heap of things that
Speaker 4: I do tape that I do feel lift brain fog
Speaker 4: and make money more clear and put me in a
Speaker 4: better mental state. And that costs money. Right, Absolutely, we're
Speaker 4: not talking about that today. What we're talking about is
Speaker 4: the literal medications and the actual healthcare system, not Victoria's
Speaker 4: hippie dippy mushroom vibes. I'm riding that way with babe,
Speaker 4: But I guess that we should really get back on topic.
Speaker 2: That was our experience.
Speaker 3: But what did the Zurich White paper find that Australians
Speaker 3: on the whole experience when it comes to the cost
Speaker 3: of mental health conditions.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 4: So, the estimated total health system expenditure on mental health
Speaker 4: was twelve point eight billion dollars, comprising of nine hundred
Speaker 4: and seventy four million in health care costs and beck
Speaker 4: eleven point eight billion dollars in productivity loss.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Wow, isn't that wild? Like to just break that down.
Speaker 4: Obviously that's a lot of billions of dollars, but it
Speaker 4: was nine hundred and seventy four million in health care
Speaker 4: costs and eleven billion in productivity costs Beeck, ten percent
Speaker 4: was the actual health care cost. Ninety percent is sitting
Speaker 4: in productivity loss when it comes to mental health.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, you don't even think about that.
Speaker 2: Isn't that wild?
Speaker 4: Like I say, bills and I think that everybody just
Speaker 4: kind of like it flies over your head and you go, oh,
Speaker 4: so much money. You're right, let's talk about this, but
Speaker 4: like ninety percent of that cost, you're around, ninety percent
Speaker 4: of that cost is loss of productivity due to mental health.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what that's wild, isn't it wild?
Speaker 4: Mental health conditions have large economic and social costs. We
Speaker 4: already know that the conditions are often lengthy, leading to
Speaker 4: career disruption, instability, loss of skills, and social isolation, which
Speaker 4: is why economic costs are not limited to lost work,
Speaker 4: but also to long term lost opportunities. Yeah, okay, which
Speaker 4: we need to talk about as well. And I'm just
Speaker 4: so glad that it's being taken into consideration now because
Speaker 4: I think if we had gone back, let's say, ten years,
Speaker 4: and we talked about mental health, and someone was trying
Speaker 4: to calculate my cost of mental health, but be like, well,
Speaker 4: how much do you spend on medication each month? Yes,
Speaker 4: how much was your doctor's appointment? Full stop, end of story,
Speaker 4: that's the cost of my mental health. And that's not
Speaker 4: the case. And I feel like I am I feel
Speaker 4: like I've said I'm privileged already this episode, but I
Speaker 4: just I feel so genuinely lucky that the circumstances I
Speaker 4: am in are favorable. Like I don't know how to
Speaker 4: say this without sounding like an absolute whine carpick. My
Speaker 4: career has been successful. I've been so lucky that things
Speaker 4: have lined up for me and that I have worked
Speaker 4: my butt off and done all these other things.
Speaker 2: But there are so many people in this.
Speaker 4: World who have worked their absolute butts off and are
Speaker 4: at a loss when it comes to their career or
Speaker 4: what has happened. And I mean, I'm not saying that
Speaker 4: I have lost any of those things. And I think personally,
Speaker 4: if you were to quantify my loss, I actually think
Speaker 4: that my mental health has really played into my success.
Speaker 4: Like I was talking about my ADHD the other day
Speaker 4: with a friend and they're like, oh, how do you
Speaker 4: really think that your ADHD has impacted She's on the
Speaker 4: money and you know Zella and creating Zella money and
Speaker 4: all that, And I just said, I don't think I
Speaker 4: would have She's on the money and Zella money without
Speaker 4: my AID. Right, they are a product of me being
Speaker 4: obsessed with something, which is one of the things that
Speaker 4: happens when you have ADHD. I get so fixated on
Speaker 4: one particular topic that that's why we've deep dived into it,
Speaker 4: That's why I created it. I don't think I would
Speaker 4: have been able to commit to something like She's on
Speaker 4: the Money without my mental health issues. So I'm very lucky.
Speaker 4: But that's not the reality of everybody else. Because we
Speaker 4: go back to that number of eleven point eight billion
Speaker 4: dollars in loss productivity.
Speaker 2: So my experience is not the norm. No, my experience
Speaker 2: is so far from the Norman. It's not funny. We know.
Speaker 4: Social costs include increased rates of divorce, domestic violence, and
Speaker 4: substance of use. Treatment costs include most medications under heavily
Speaker 4: government subsidized, with public subsidies available through general practice mental
Speaker 4: health care plans, medical consultation rebates, and the Pharmaceutical Benefit
Speaker 4: Scheme the PBS, which we talked about in our last episode.
Speaker 4: Public hospital admissions are reserved for the most mental health
Speaker 4: conditions and are provided free of charge, and then moderate
Speaker 4: medical health conditions including substance misuser treated largely by the
Speaker 4: private hospital system, and inpatient treatments are often lengthy and
Speaker 4: moderately expensive, with private health providers offering some subsidies for
Speaker 4: inpatient care. But there's always, always, always a lot of
Speaker 4: out of pocket when it comes to treatment like.
Speaker 2: That, right, Unfortunately, it's crazy? Is as crazy?
Speaker 3: Do they find any other direct links to physical conditions?
Speaker 4: So apparently many people with back problems, especially chronic back pain,
Speaker 4: have poor mental health and are more likely to report
Speaker 4: conditions like depression, anxiety, and psychological distress and when it
Speaker 4: comes to getting treatment for other conditions. Adults with depression, anxiety,
Speaker 4: and other mental health conditions are seven times more likely
Speaker 4: to skip health care than people without a mental health condition.
Speaker 3: My gosh, that oh so frustrating, frustrating, and this conversation
Speaker 3: in particular really just slap me in the face because
Speaker 3: my best friend has a chronic back issue and she
Speaker 3: her mental health is so poor and she thinks it's
Speaker 3: because of other reasons. But say, I'm going to send it.
Speaker 3: I'm going to send it this episode and tell her
Speaker 3: to have a good listen.
Speaker 4: It breaks my heart as well, because I think so
Speaker 4: many people think that their mental health is so in
Speaker 4: their control.
Speaker 2: Like it frustrates me.
Speaker 4: And I ended a friendship recently, actually back and I
Speaker 4: ended it because this person couldn't see my side of
Speaker 4: the tracks, right, Like we were talking about mental there
Speaker 4: were so many other things, right, but just be happy
Speaker 4: with something, she said, or why don't you just focus
Speaker 4: on doing more pilates, or why don't you like she
Speaker 4: just could not conceptualize that the issue that I was having,
Speaker 4: you know, and have had for a number of years,
Speaker 4: Like she just thought it was like a choice, like
Speaker 4: people choose, right, to be unhappy. And I think when
Speaker 4: you have a chronic health condition, you assume that your
Speaker 4: mental health is it's just in your control. But once
Speaker 4: you're able to get back out there, you'll be happy again.
Speaker 4: And it's really not the case. Like your mental health is.
Speaker 4: It can be in your control, right, Like I'm taking
Speaker 4: control of my mental health by going and getting mental
Speaker 4: health care practitioners involved and talking to my GP and
Speaker 4: being on the right medication and doing all these things.
Speaker 4: But it's not just a choice you make. You don't
Speaker 4: get out of bed in the morning, Regin know what,
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna choose to be happy today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just going to choose to have a good day.
Speaker 3: I feel like I want to have anxiety today.
Speaker 4: Yeah, do you know what, I'm just not gonna have
Speaker 4: anxiety today. I'm just going to go do this thing.
Speaker 4: And Like it's funny because I think when I start
Speaker 4: to share my mental health journey and what that means,
Speaker 4: I think people look at me and go absolutely not, Victoria,
Speaker 4: You're so confident. That doesn't mean it doesn't manifest in
Speaker 4: other areas of my life. Can I get up on
Speaker 4: stage and talk to a room of five thousand people absolutely,
Speaker 4: I can easily can. I sometimes not get myself out
Speaker 4: of bed, though, and spend days in my bed not
Speaker 4: being able to get out. I refuse to answer the phone,
Speaker 4: I refuse to check my emails. I refuse to do
Speaker 4: a whole heap of things. I don't even get in
Speaker 4: the shower if I've forgotten a medication. Yeah, absolutely, But
Speaker 4: people don't see that side of things, and I think
Speaker 4: they only see, you know, like, let's go back to
Speaker 4: this social media thing. They only see the social media highlights.
Speaker 4: They only see what you know, I'm putting out on online.
Speaker 4: I'm not going to get my phone and take a
Speaker 4: photo of me in bed after three day, like it's
Speaker 4: just not going to happen because I'm not in that
Speaker 4: mental space, Like it's just not going to happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think it's.
Speaker 4: It's wild, especially if you've got chronic health condition like
Speaker 4: your friend.
Speaker 2: Of course, you're a bit down.
Speaker 4: You're not being supported in the way that you need
Speaker 4: to be mentally supported and stimulated.
Speaker 3: There's another thing that people don't think about when it
Speaker 3: comes to mental health, and that's the kind of depressures
Speaker 3: on cares and caregiving. So we know that informal caregiving
Speaker 3: often falls to family members. But what are the costs
Speaker 3: of families and carers?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: So, cares for people with mental health conditions spend an
Speaker 4: average of thirty six hours per week providing care. It's
Speaker 4: two hours short my love of a full time job.
Speaker 3: Wow wow wow.
Speaker 4: Twenty four percent receive care as payments, thirty four percent
Speaker 4: don't receive any assistance in their caring role, and thirty
Speaker 4: five percent don't know the services that are available to
Speaker 4: support keres, which is the number that I really want
Speaker 4: to focus on here. So I just they don't know
Speaker 4: what they don't know because we don't talk about it.
Speaker 4: And then if we don't talk about it, you don't
Speaker 4: know what you can access exactly. Have these conversations and
Speaker 4: the more we normalize this, the more we can advocate
Speaker 4: for others as well. And I think that, you know,
Speaker 4: especially when it comes to mental health, there's such a
Speaker 4: stigma around it still where if somebody is experiencing depression
Speaker 4: and anxiety, they might not want to talk about it,
Speaker 4: and then that might extend to their care. And like
Speaker 4: a care could be your husband, it could be your sibling,
Speaker 4: it could be a parent, it could be literally anybody.
Speaker 4: It could be your housemate that kind of picks up
Speaker 4: the slack when you won't get out of bed, and
Speaker 4: they then don't talk about it because they know that
Speaker 4: you're a bit like closed off and don't really want
Speaker 4: to talk about the issues. And then that extends to
Speaker 4: them not being able to get the support that they need,
Speaker 4: and then maybe they're experiencing their own mental health conditions
Speaker 4: because they feel like they aren't open and honest about
Speaker 4: the realities of their circumstance. So I think it's just
Speaker 4: it goes on and on, and it's a cycle that
Speaker 4: we really need to break, and we really need to
Speaker 4: talk about more honestly and more openly and with a
Speaker 4: lot more kindness than we currently approach to totally.
Speaker 3: Let's end the taboo, but I think this is a
Speaker 3: really heavy topic. Let's go have a little break and
Speaker 3: come back in five point two seconds.
Speaker 2: All right, V we are back.
Speaker 3: How do you feel I feel like that was longer
Speaker 3: than five point two seconds. That was a little bit
Speaker 3: longer than five point I feel like it's five point seven. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: so maybe next time we'll shorten it, you know what.
Speaker 2: I'm going to stay on the counting side. Of the table.
Speaker 4: You say, on the content side of the table, I'll
Speaker 4: do the maths. You're not involved in that deal because
Speaker 4: at this point, I'm not even sure if you can
Speaker 4: tell the time.
Speaker 3: I don't know what time. So so let's have a
Speaker 3: little bit more of a closer look as some of
Speaker 3: the costs and stats and breakdown specific disorders.
Speaker 4: Okay, all right, so let's talk about effective disorders. So
Speaker 4: effective disorders are things like depression, bipolar, and schizophrenia. The
Speaker 4: cost of depression is seventeen one hundred and ninety dollars
Speaker 4: on average per individual. Average number of days off from
Speaker 4: work each year if you have an effective disorder adds
Speaker 4: up to seventy five point four days per year. Back,
Speaker 4: do you know how many sick days most people get
Speaker 4: in their work contracts? Barely anything ten Usually you get
Speaker 4: ten sick days. That is seven times more than the
Speaker 4: average that we are allocated. Fewer than two in five
Speaker 4: people with anxiety and depression seek treatment, and recovery rate
Speaker 4: is actually up to fifty percent in the first six months,
Speaker 4: but the relapse rate is between thirty and fifty percent
Speaker 4: for those who initially recover, which ends up putting a
Speaker 4: lot of people in a cycle of feeling like it's
Speaker 4: never going to get better. And as much as those
Speaker 4: numbers feel low, they're actually, from my perspective, relatively high.
Speaker 4: Indirect spending for effective disorders includes non health services and
Speaker 4: social costs, so family breakdowns, going through a diporse, legal costs,
Speaker 4: stuff like that. If an individual were paying four hundred
Speaker 4: and fifty dollars per session for psychiatric treatment weekly, which
Speaker 4: is a very normal amount of money, unfortunately to be
Speaker 4: spending on seeing a psychiatrist, which my background is in psychology.
Speaker 4: I have two psychology degrees, so I do know what
Speaker 4: I'm talking about. When it comes to this, A psychologist
Speaker 4: is not able to prescribe medication. A psychiatrist is. A
Speaker 4: psychologist can talk you through things and you know, help
Speaker 4: you get through a lot of situations. I see a
Speaker 4: psychologist regularly, but when it comes to managing my ADHD,
Speaker 4: and when it comes to managing my depression, which is
Speaker 4: always going to be with me, I see a side
Speaker 4: psychiatrist because I am on medications that have been prescribed
Speaker 4: by my psychiatrist. So you can't go to a psychologist
Speaker 4: and they go, oh, I'm going to diagnose you with depression.
Speaker 4: Here's medication for that. They don't do that. So if
Speaker 4: you have an effective disorder and you are on a
Speaker 4: medication for that, or you are clinically diagnosed, you actually
Speaker 4: have to see a psychiatrist. So this isn't like a choice, right,
Speaker 4: But it can be about four hundred and fifty dollars
Speaker 4: a session. We're using that number because it seems to
Speaker 4: be an average and it's actually what I pay to
Speaker 4: see my psychiatrist. They would be two hundred and ninety
Speaker 4: six dollars per session out of pocket because you get
Speaker 4: one hundred and fifty four dollars on a Medicare rebate
Speaker 4: for that session. After the seventh week of treatment, the
Speaker 4: individual would have already reached the Medicare safety net threshold,
Speaker 4: which is two thousand and ninety three dollars and thirty
Speaker 4: cents out of pocket in seven weeks.
Speaker 2: That is so awful.
Speaker 3: The can you imagine, like the costs just add up,
Speaker 3: like how do you survive?
Speaker 2: How do you feed you? How do you afford that?
Speaker 2: How do you afford to live? And then but also
Speaker 2: like that's rent money, that's rent money.
Speaker 3: But imagine like you had a full time job, so
Speaker 3: you could technically be affording all of these things if.
Speaker 4: You hadn't really want I don't think people like people
Speaker 4: might be paying for it. But there's a difference between
Speaker 4: being able to pay for something and being able to
Speaker 4: afford it. So you're saying you're affording it, you're able
Speaker 4: to service every other goal in your life, and that
Speaker 4: is not impacting those things. No, But from my perspective,
Speaker 4: even if you have an emergency fund and then you
Speaker 4: have to see a psychiatrist on a weekly basis and
Speaker 4: you're spending four hundred and fifty dollars a week, you're
Speaker 4: technically able to pay for it, but you're not able
Speaker 4: to afford it because your bigger goals aren't being met.
Speaker 4: You might not be saving, you might not be investing
Speaker 4: for your future. You might not you know, you might
Speaker 4: be foregoing social activities or other things that are helpful
Speaker 4: for your mental health. And I think we've all been there, right, Like,
Speaker 4: I shouldn't see it this way, but I always see
Speaker 4: it as like a may cost and you shouldn't do
Speaker 4: this right Like I always go, oh, my gosh, well
Speaker 4: I had a psych appointment or psychiatrist appointment this week.
Speaker 2: No, I won't buy a pilates pass this week.
Speaker 4: I think I might wait a bit because that was
Speaker 4: an expensive week, when in reality the vallarates pass and
Speaker 4: me getting physical activity is probably equally as important. But
Speaker 4: I see it as a different like I see it
Speaker 4: as a choice, and it shouldn't be like that was
Speaker 4: a cost I had to incur. So I think it's
Speaker 4: really interesting and that's why often you end up with
Speaker 4: mixed care so often when you have a mental health condition.
Speaker 4: And I mean disclaimer again, this is just anecdotal personal experience.
Speaker 4: I'm not a doctor, and I'm not recommending that this
Speaker 4: is the right mode of care. But my GP knows
Speaker 4: how expensive my psychiatrist is, so he keeps in contact
Speaker 4: with my psychiatrist, and my psychiatrist sees me wow, maybe
Speaker 4: once every six months to approve my medications. And then
Speaker 4: I go every three months to my GP to get
Speaker 4: prescribed to my medications. But then I don't have to
Speaker 4: go to the expensive psychiatrist appointment so often. But then
Speaker 4: on top of that, I have a psycho cologist as well.
Speaker 4: That's in that mix that I guess do the more
Speaker 4: therapy side of things with, like we don't really talk
Speaker 4: about medication, Like my psychiatrist's quite quite transactional. You could say,
Speaker 4: it's kind of like a GP appointment. We do talk
Speaker 4: about my mental health, but I'm not talking about how
Speaker 4: I'm feeling or what I'm doing, because she checks in
Speaker 4: with my psychologist to make sure I'm on track with that.
Speaker 4: So you often end up with not just one psychiatrist appointment.
Speaker 4: You've got GP, you've got psychologists, you've got psychiatrists, and
Speaker 4: they all mix together, and then that becomes even more
Speaker 4: expensive and you cap out your medicare rebate real quick.
Speaker 2: I'm telling you that right now, Isn't it wild? That's
Speaker 2: really wild.
Speaker 3: And let's say in a hypothetical world you made trillions
Speaker 3: of dollars per hour and you could afford all of
Speaker 3: those things. But that's only if you get to go
Speaker 3: to work every single day and you don't use up
Speaker 3: you're sickly, you know that, Like when you're hungover or
Speaker 3: just feeling tired and you can't go into work. Imagine
Speaker 3: that time's a trillion, but you have to go to
Speaker 3: work every single day. You have ten days of sick
Speaker 3: leave per year, but you feel like that all the time.
Speaker 3: That's your reality, and you've got to pay for all
Speaker 3: these things, How are you meant to work and just
Speaker 3: survive and go into work every day and like be
Speaker 3: your best self if you're feeling so like you just can't,
Speaker 3: you just can't.
Speaker 4: It's kind of like people who experience chronic pain conditions,
Speaker 4: they just exactly so used to managing it that that
Speaker 4: becomes the new normal and the new expectation. And it's
Speaker 4: not right. It's not right, and when something else goes wrong,
Speaker 4: they compare it, and so like, I've got a few
Speaker 4: friends and even family members with chronic health conditions. And
Speaker 4: it's interesting because if something else goes wrong, and I'm
Speaker 4: going to use an example that I'm making up, but
Speaker 4: like chronic health condition, let's call it really really awful
Speaker 4: back pain. It's consistent, it's crippling. But then they break
Speaker 4: their ankle. It's not that bad, but it like literally
Speaker 4: changes the way that they're living their life. But in comparison,
Speaker 4: they're kind of like, oh, it's not that bad in comparison, like,
Speaker 4: I got it all, passed it up. She'll be right,
Speaker 4: what anybody else breaking their ankle would be like, this
Speaker 4: is you know, life ending.
Speaker 2: I can't believe this.
Speaker 4: I'm in a cast for the next six to eight weeks,
Speaker 4: like you know, there's so much I need to do
Speaker 4: and then I need to do rehab. They just don't
Speaker 4: see it as that big of a deal. And that's
Speaker 4: not okay, Like it's not okay to be in that
Speaker 4: position because you should be mentally well and you should
Speaker 4: be you know, able to be fit and healthy and
Speaker 4: happy in all of those things, and are just yeah,
Speaker 4: it really frustrates me. Like sometimes I want to shake
Speaker 4: these people and be like it's actually okay that that's
Speaker 4: a bad thing. Like we can say it's a bad
Speaker 4: thing and like don't compare it or compartmentalize it in
Speaker 4: the way that you are totally Moving on to another disorder,
Speaker 4: let's talk about anxiety disorders, so that's things like panic, angoraphobia,
Speaker 4: social phobia, generalized anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, and post traumatic
Speaker 4: stress disorder. Average individual cost is between one hundred and
Speaker 4: eighty six dollars and two hundred and sixty four dollars
Speaker 4: if combined with another disorder. The average number of days
Speaker 4: off per year are fifty three point six days per year,
Speaker 4: so a bit less than depression. But also we need
Speaker 4: to recognize comorbidity exists so often if you have anxiety,
Speaker 4: the likelihood of you having depression is increased.
Speaker 2: As I mentioned before, I have both, like poor Ken
Speaker 2: or lost Doss.
Speaker 4: There is for anxiety disorders a fifty to sixty percent
Speaker 4: recovery rate and a fifty to sixty six percent relapse
Speaker 4: rate of those who initially recover, which again makes you
Speaker 4: feel like you're stuck in a cy call. And that's
Speaker 4: not call at all.
Speaker 3: No, that would be very, very very tricky to live with.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, pee, No, don't be sorry. I'm okay.
Speaker 4: I'm literally okay, And I just see it as part
Speaker 4: of me and I'm okay. We're just talking about the costs,
Speaker 4: and I think that it's really important. And I don't
Speaker 4: want people to listen to this and think the Victoria
Speaker 4: is trying to make this all about her.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think that's the case at all. I
Speaker 2: just believe that the.
Speaker 4: Best way of, you know, breaking down stigma is actually
Speaker 4: to open the doors and open the conversation up around
Speaker 4: yourself and as somebody who I'm just grateful to be
Speaker 4: in this position where you do get to talk to
Speaker 4: you guys about these things. I can't just stand here
Speaker 4: and be like, it's important to talk about mental health
Speaker 4: back because you'd be like, cool, Victoria. Everybody else is
Speaker 4: saying that. But if I go, it's important to talk
Speaker 4: about mental health and I actually experience these things. Here's
Speaker 4: my experience. This is what this looks like. You go, wow,
Speaker 4: I didn't realize. You know that not only will there
Speaker 4: be psychiatric cost, but a psychologist and your GP involved,
Speaker 4: and they'd be like this mix in this triangle of
Speaker 4: people that have to talk to one another to manage
Speaker 4: your condition. Like, I just think it's so much more
Speaker 4: practical to have practical and pragmatic conversation where it's just like, well, Beck,
Speaker 4: it is what it is. Moving on to substance use disorders.
Speaker 4: So average individual cost is between one hundred and eighty
Speaker 4: six and two hundred and fifty eight dollars per year
Speaker 4: if combined with another disorder, and the average number of
Speaker 4: days off per week are forty point two days per year.
Speaker 4: Recovery rate is up to eighty percent, which is Chef's kiss.
Speaker 4: Could be higher, but that's you know, they're the numbers
Speaker 4: we want to start saying. Unfortunately, relapse rate is between
Speaker 4: forty and sixty percent, and people with Substance use disorders
Speaker 4: are often frequent users of psychiatric services. Although many services
Speaker 4: are publicly funded, there are still and there may still
Speaker 4: be payment gaps for individuals seeking counseling or medication or
Speaker 4: rehabilitation centers and self help programs or support networks. The
Speaker 4: other thing I want to say about substance use disorders
Speaker 4: is I guess the underlying cost of the substance that
Speaker 4: you have a dependency on, because obviously, when it comes
Speaker 4: to depression, like I'm not going out and getting a
Speaker 4: substance that is costing me a lot of money that
Speaker 4: results in depression, I am. You know, if you have
Speaker 4: a substance use disorder, it's usually really expensive, especially here
Speaker 4: in Australia, Like it's not accessible obviously for good reasons
Speaker 4: because usually they're illegal. But it's one of those things
Speaker 4: where that average individual cost is not including how much
Speaker 4: you're spending on those substances, and that can be financially
Speaker 4: crippling for many, many people. And obviously there's a lot
Speaker 4: of conversation around that because substance use disorders are the
Speaker 4: disorder that leads to the highest levels of homelessness in Australia,
Speaker 4: and obviously there's a lot of comorbidity there as well
Speaker 4: when it comes to having another disorder. Moving on to
Speaker 4: the topic and the I guess subheading of suicide beck
Speaker 4: suicide is the leading cause of death for Australians between
Speaker 4: the ages of fifteen and forty four, and is the
Speaker 4: second leading cause of death for Australians aged forty five
Speaker 4: to fifty four years old.
Speaker 3: That is pretty opening. I had.
Speaker 2: It is no idea that it was so high.
Speaker 4: It's insane because suicide, I think, doesn't get the conversation
Speaker 4: happening around it that it deserves.
Speaker 2: And I mean, there are so many.
Speaker 4: Beautiful charities and forums that discuss this, but we just
Speaker 4: don't discuss it as a community as a whole. It's
Speaker 4: kind of like, oh, yeah, let's talk about Beyond Blue
Speaker 4: and the work that they're doing. But I feel like
Speaker 4: it's always really niched down to a particular campaign. It's
Speaker 4: not an ongoing conversation, and suicide is an outcome of
Speaker 4: mental health conditions and all the conversations that we've just
Speaker 4: had and all of the disorders that we've been talking
Speaker 4: about today, they lead to or can lead to suicide,
Speaker 4: and somebody going through that process and I just think
Speaker 4: that we need to care about these things more because
Speaker 4: people just deserve more from our community.
Speaker 2: We we really, really do.
Speaker 3: I completely agree with that. Now, just moving on slightly,
Speaker 3: Can we now talk about mental health care plans? How
Speaker 3: the hell do they work?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 4: We can, and I am the biggest advocate of a
Speaker 4: mental health care plan. We talked when Rhann and Tracy
Speaker 4: was on on our episode a lot about insurance and
Speaker 4: the importance of insurance. And I think that the first
Speaker 4: thing I want you to do as a human being.
Speaker 4: I'm not saying before a mental health care plan, but
Speaker 4: I am saying you need to consider your personal insurance
Speaker 4: needs sooner rather than later. And the reason I say
Speaker 4: that is because insurers in Australia take into consideration exclusions, right.
Speaker 4: So an exclusion is where they don't include something in
Speaker 4: your insurance cover. So, Beck, you might have broken your
Speaker 4: ankle a couple of times playing netball, and then you
Speaker 4: go and do your survey to get new insurance and
Speaker 4: they go, Beck, if you got any health conditions and
Speaker 4: you say, nah, got nothing.
Speaker 2: If you had anything.
Speaker 4: Happen to you historically, and you go, yep, broke my
Speaker 4: ankle playing netball.
Speaker 2: And then they come back and say, no worries.
Speaker 4: Beck, we would love to ensure you, but here are
Speaker 4: our conditions.
Speaker 2: What we're going to do.
Speaker 4: We're going to insure your whole body and your whole mind,
Speaker 4: but we're not going to ensure that one ankle, and.
Speaker 2: We're not going to want to do to do with
Speaker 2: the air.
Speaker 4: Don't want anything to do with the ankle because you've
Speaker 4: already broken once. So because it's already been broken once,
Speaker 4: it's a bit compromised. It means that you're more likely
Speaker 4: to break it again. So we just don't want that.
Speaker 4: And you go, all right, Well, when it comes to insurance,
Speaker 4: that makes sense, right, Like it's kind of like car insurance.
Speaker 4: If you're a bad driver and you keep crashing, they're
Speaker 4: gonna say, probably going to charge you a little bit more, Beck,
Speaker 4: Your premiums are going to go up because you keep crashing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're a bit of a Risk's a bit.
Speaker 4: Of a risk, right, And that's exactly how personal insurances work.
Speaker 4: And there are lots of different risks involved in personal insurance.
Speaker 4: But the younger you are when you apply for personal insurance,
Speaker 4: the less likely you have experienced a significant life and
Speaker 4: health event, which means the less likely you are to
Speaker 4: have exclusions in your cover, so hypothetically, in the future,
Speaker 4: you can claim on more stuff. I want insurance to
Speaker 4: be the biggest waste of money you've ever spent money on, beck, Like,
Speaker 4: I want you to be paying for insurance every single month,
Speaker 4: and I want you to look at that cost and
Speaker 4: be like, didn't claim on that.
Speaker 2: That's not great. Like, I want it to be a
Speaker 2: waste of money. I see what you mean. I want
Speaker 2: you to be wasting your money on insurance. Wow.
Speaker 4: But hypothetically, if something did happen to you yesterday and
Speaker 4: you needed to I want that cover to be there.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And I think that framing it that way, people go, oh, okay,
Speaker 4: because how many times have you looked at your insurance
Speaker 4: You go, that's a lot of money. But also, I'm
Speaker 4: getting nothing out of this good Yes, true, I don't
Speaker 4: want you to get anything out of your insurance because
Speaker 4: if you're not claiming on your personal insurances, you know
Speaker 4: what that means. You're probably happy and healthy and haven't
Speaker 4: broken anything and haven't been hit by a bus and
Speaker 4: haven't had these awful things happen to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a life win. True. Stop seeing it as
Speaker 2: a money loss. That is so true.
Speaker 4: The segue to this is I really want you to
Speaker 4: think about insurance now and today and care about it,
Speaker 4: because the sooner you get it implemented, the less likely
Speaker 4: you are to have a pre existing health condition taken
Speaker 4: into consideration. And I say this before a mental health
Speaker 4: care plan because over the last I would say seven
Speaker 4: years since the Royal Commission, and everything about financial advice
Speaker 4: and insurances, really.
Speaker 2: I guess got shook up.
Speaker 4: You could say, mental health care plans are seen by
Speaker 4: insurers and they do take them into consideration.
Speaker 2: We're offering you cover.
Speaker 4: And it's a really shitty thing that I have to
Speaker 4: say that I really want you to be insured before
Speaker 4: you go down this pathway because it breaks my heart,
Speaker 4: or it used to break my heart every single time
Speaker 4: I had to sit down with a client and say,
Speaker 4: I know that you did the right thing for you,
Speaker 4: and you went and got a mental health care plan,
Speaker 4: and now you are healthy and you are happy, and
Speaker 4: you're not even seeing anyone and you're not even on
Speaker 4: any medications. But when we did your medical history, the
Speaker 4: insurer came back and said that you were on a
Speaker 4: mental health care plan. So we're Young covering you for
Speaker 4: mental health in your insurance. Oh my, isn't that good?
Speaker 4: Isn't that just like the most messed up thing ever?
Speaker 4: And it pisces me off? And I understand the risk
Speaker 4: behind it. I can see it from both sides. I
Speaker 4: can understand that as an insurer, mental health is becoming
Speaker 4: and I won't say mental health issues are becoming more prevalent,
Speaker 4: because I think that they've been there all the time,
Speaker 4: but we are now getting the help that we deserve
Speaker 4: for them. And that is costing insurer's money because you're
Speaker 4: claiming on your income protection to take time off work
Speaker 4: to put you first, and you should be able to
Speaker 4: do that. But when it comes to an insurer, their
Speaker 4: job is to kind of manage risk. And there's people
Speaker 4: called underwriters and their job is to have a look
Speaker 4: at the risk. And now, I guess weigh up the
Speaker 4: pros and cons of offering Beck cover and if you
Speaker 4: have had mental health conditions historically and seen a GP
Speaker 4: and then maybe seen a psychiatrist for it, they're going
Speaker 4: to look at that and go, Okay, cool, you know what, Beck,
Speaker 4: We're not going to offer it to you. Maybe we
Speaker 4: can reconsider this in two years but if it's something
Speaker 4: like I have sat down with clients who have attempted suicide,
Speaker 4: and then because they've attempted suicide, it's just an instant
Speaker 4: decline on mental health cover.
Speaker 2: Do you know what?
Speaker 4: There's nothing else to say about it except it's really shitty.
Speaker 4: And I hate the fact that, as an ex financial advisor,
Speaker 4: when you ask me about a mental health care plan,
Speaker 4: and I promise I'm about to explain exactly.
Speaker 2: How they work.
Speaker 4: But I hate that I have to go on a
Speaker 4: tangent because I feel like it's the most responsible thing
Speaker 4: for me to do to say, mental health care plans
Speaker 4: are really important. Please talk to your GP. Please get
Speaker 4: the health care that you absolutely deserve and need, but
Speaker 4: please make sure that you have the insurances you need first,
Speaker 4: because if you go down that route, there is a
Speaker 4: very big probability that by disclosing that you have had
Speaker 4: a mental health care plan, you might get an exclusion.
Speaker 2: That is very solid advice. It's unfortunately awful.
Speaker 4: It's unfortunate because you shouldn't be thinking about your mental
Speaker 4: health right now and going, oh, well, I'm feeling pretty terrible.
Speaker 2: I should go to the doctor. But Victoria said, let's
Speaker 2: get our insurances sorted. Let's not do that.
Speaker 4: Let's be mentally healthy today and go and get our
Speaker 4: insurances sorted, so if we experience anything in the future,
Speaker 4: we don't have pre existing conditions on our insurance application.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 4: Back to your question, though, Beck, you asked a very
Speaker 4: good question. Actually, not back to that. You guys are
Speaker 4: going to slide into my DMS and say I need insurance,
Speaker 4: and I'm going to reply, Please go talk to my
Speaker 4: friend Phil at Sky Wealth. He's not paying me to
Speaker 4: say this. I just don't want to reply to six
Speaker 4: hundred different dms of people going Victoria. You talked about
Speaker 4: the importance of getting insurance sorted. Phil is a financial
Speaker 4: advice friend that I have had for many, many years now.
Speaker 4: He used to run a full service financial advice business
Speaker 4: and decided that he was really passionate about insurance and
Speaker 4: now does insurance only advice. And for I think it's
Speaker 4: between three and four hundred dollars are his fees. So
Speaker 4: he's not going to charge you what a holistic financial
Speaker 4: advisor would charge to implement your insurances, which would be
Speaker 4: around three and a half to five thousand dollars. Wow,
Speaker 4: he is a lot cheaper because all he does is insurance.
Speaker 4: So if you want to go to him and start investing,
Speaker 4: he's not going to do that. He's just going to say, cool,
Speaker 4: don't do that. All he does is insurance, and his
Speaker 4: team are structured and make that as accessible as possible.
Speaker 4: And if you know somebody else that runs a business
Speaker 4: like Phil's where his financial advice is actually relatively accessible
Speaker 4: in terms of cost, please let me know, because I
Speaker 4: do not know anybody else running a business as accessible
Speaker 4: as Phil at this point with the quality of advice
Speaker 4: associated with it. So that's yeah, that's my plug. I
Speaker 4: know that that sounds really salesy, and it kind of was. No,
Speaker 4: it was meant to because I want you to get insurance.
Speaker 4: Oh okay, Like it was meant to because I wanted
Speaker 4: you to get insurance. But also I just wanted to
Speaker 4: be really transparent about who feels he's like, he's a
Speaker 4: nice Guy's fair Anyway, you asked a question, and the
Speaker 4: question was Victoria, can we now talk about mental health
Speaker 4: care plan?
Speaker 2: Please? Like, yeah, no worries.
Speaker 4: So if you would like a mental health care plan,
Speaker 4: your GP can write you want. It's very simple. You
Speaker 4: don't even need to I think you do. Actually need
Speaker 4: to went booking. Let your like GP know that it's
Speaker 4: going to be a bit of a longer appointment. You
Speaker 4: can't just book the fifteen minute one because you do
Speaker 4: actually need to do a bit of a survey, So
Speaker 4: just heads up on that. From the first of January
Speaker 4: twenty twenty three, with a mental health care plan, you're
Speaker 4: able to access a total of ten Medicare rebates for
Speaker 4: your appointments with your clinician in this calendar year. So
Speaker 4: calendar not financial sets in December yep, at the end
Speaker 4: of December. If you have sessions remaining on an existing
Speaker 4: mental health care plan and current referrals for your sessions
Speaker 4: from twenty twenty two, whether for the initial ten or
Speaker 4: an additional ten, you'll be able to use the referral
Speaker 4: to access up to ten sessions in twenty twenty three
Speaker 4: without having to go back to your GP, which is good.
Speaker 2: That is very good.
Speaker 4: Typically, following six Medicare rebated appointments, your clinician is going
Speaker 4: to write a progress report relating to your treatment goals
Speaker 4: and you're going to or you will be eligible to
Speaker 4: get a re referral from your doctor for an extra
Speaker 4: for Medicare rebated appointments, which does of another trip to
Speaker 4: the GP following the four extra Medicare rebated sessions. Your
Speaker 4: clinician will write a further treatment update to your doctor
Speaker 4: and it will go from there.
Speaker 2: So how much does this cost this?
Speaker 4: She's on the money back, I'm dying to know. If
Speaker 4: you qualify for the Mental Health Care Plan, you'll be
Speaker 4: eligible to receive a Medicare rebate of one hundred and
Speaker 4: thirty one dollars and sixty five cents for an appointment
Speaker 4: with a clinical psychologist or eighty nine dollars and sixty
Speaker 4: five cent Medicare rebate for an appointment with a psychologist.
Speaker 4: Note the difference between clinical psychologist and psychologist there.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah you're psychiatrist.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's important that there's a differentiation there. If you
Speaker 4: are booking an appointment and you just google Medicare rebate
Speaker 4: with psychologist and it comes up as one hundred and
Speaker 4: thirty one and then, yeah, you just don't want to
Speaker 4: get those two mixed up in case you're not getting
Speaker 4: the rebate that you're expecting. If you're like budgeting, okay,
Speaker 4: this Medicare rebate amount will increase once you reach your
Speaker 4: individual slash family extended Medicare Safety Net threshold of two thousand,
Speaker 4: two hundred and forty nine dollars eighty which is the
Speaker 4: general threshold where you will then receive back eighty percent
Speaker 4: of the out of pocket expenses for your ongoing sessions
Speaker 4: with a psychologist.
Speaker 3: Okay, on paper, I think that's good.
Speaker 2: On paper, it is good. I mean still an expense.
Speaker 2: It's still an expense.
Speaker 4: I've said this before on the podcast. I'm very grateful
Speaker 4: to live in Australia with the healthcare system that we
Speaker 4: have because we are so incredibly supported. Is it the
Speaker 4: best healthcare system in the entire world? No, there's better
Speaker 4: out there, Like, yeah, feelin's amazing.
Speaker 2: I may no Way Norway. Oh so the government pays
Speaker 2: for us.
Speaker 4: So it's not it's not as though, you know, their
Speaker 4: psychologists are cheaper or anything like that. It's just their
Speaker 4: governments have put more of a priority on having no
Speaker 4: gap healthcare and so they cover that it would be included.
Speaker 2: In their taxes.
Speaker 4: I see, at the end of the day, they are
Speaker 4: paying taxes and that's what their taxes are going towards.
Speaker 4: And I mean when it comes to like our Medicare
Speaker 4: rebates and stuff, that's what our taxes go towards. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so the money has to come from somewhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So I guess talking about this stuff is really important
Speaker 4: to me because I care a lot about our community,
Speaker 4: I care a lot about mental health, and I care
Speaker 4: a lot about making sure that you are well protected.
Speaker 4: And that's why I went on that insurance rant. I'll
Speaker 4: pop a whole heap of details in the show notes.
Speaker 4: If that's something that you're like, oh, Vian, I hadn't
Speaker 4: really considered it. I really think it's important. But I
Speaker 4: also think it's important to continue this conversation beyond just
Speaker 4: us doing an episode on a zeric white paper, like
Speaker 4: I think the white paper they're so sexy, like so sexy.
Speaker 2: I've read it so many times.
Speaker 4: I can't tell you how many times I've forwarded it
Speaker 4: because it's in a PDF. I've shared it with heaps
Speaker 4: of my friends. I've sent it to advisors who are like, Victoria,
Speaker 4: I've ready seen this, and I'm like, yeah, but read
Speaker 4: it again. It's really really helpful. But I think that
Speaker 4: from this what we should be doing is really opening
Speaker 4: the conversation up about the cost of mental health. And
Speaker 4: we don't have time today, but we will continue this
Speaker 4: conversation in our Facebook group and we have honest, non
Speaker 4: judgmental conversations about what is costing you and what it's
Speaker 4: costing our community. And you know, what are your hacks
Speaker 4: and tips and tricks and all of that. I want
Speaker 4: to know absolutely.
Speaker 3: And also if this conversation has negatively impacted you, please
Speaker 3: reach out to your would you say GP for any advice.
Speaker 4: You reach out to your GP will pop some resources
Speaker 4: in the show, not as we always.
Speaker 3: Do, exactly, but yeah, I think this has been really good,
Speaker 3: heavy but good conversation that needs to happen. So I
Speaker 3: feel like let's go and absorb this, so usually.
Speaker 2: Do exactly I guess leaving it here.
Speaker 4: Your mental health does not define you as a human
Speaker 4: beings exactly right, full stop, end of story.
Speaker 2: We love you and we hope that you have the
Speaker 2: best day ever and we will see you for Friday
Speaker 2: drinks on Friday.
Speaker 3: Bye guys.
Speaker 4: The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
Speaker 4: in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's
Speaker 4: on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should
Speaker 4: not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.
Speaker 4: If you do choose to buy a financial product, read
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