1
00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,080
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the

2
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,040
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers Now. Hello, this

3
00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,520
Speaker 1: is doctor Justin Colson. Welcome to another week and another

4
00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,040
Speaker 1: addition to the Happy Families Podcast. Today, joining me Detective

5
00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,599
Speaker 1: Superintendent Jane Crossling from the Australian Senate account of Child Exploitation,

6
00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,280
Speaker 1: otherwise known as ACE. Jane has been on the podcast

7
00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,480
Speaker 1: a couple of times now talking about all things online,

8
00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,680
Speaker 1: all the challenges that we face when it comes to

9
00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,320
Speaker 1: keeping our children safe and working with the police to

10
00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,640
Speaker 1: counter child exploitation. You can imagine that Jane has a

11
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,600
Speaker 1: lot of wisdom and unfortunately a whole lot of experience

12
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,000
Speaker 1: that we don't really want to experience ourselves to lean on. Jane,

13
00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:44,559
Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me.

14
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:46,159
Speaker 2: Thank you Jackson.

15
00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:48,360
Speaker 1: I want to have a conversation with you today about

16
00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,600
Speaker 1: something that there's been a lot of noise about in

17
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,400
Speaker 1: the media over the last couple of weeks, and I

18
00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:55,560
Speaker 1: have to be honest, I don't think it's that big

19
00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,960
Speaker 1: of a deal and I'd love for you to either

20
00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,480
Speaker 1: put me straight or provide me with the reassurance so

21
00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,640
Speaker 1: long as a few things are taken care of the

22
00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,320
Speaker 1: topic is parents taking photos of their kids in their

23
00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,680
Speaker 1: school uniform and posting them online. So obviously, in the

24
00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,440
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks, the entire nation has returned from

25
00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,880
Speaker 1: summer holidays, Christmas holidays, everyone's kids have gone back to school.

26
00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,319
Speaker 1: And I can't count on all my fingers and all

27
00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,720
Speaker 1: my toes the number of my Facebook friends, my Instagram

28
00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,160
Speaker 1: friends who have been sharing photos of their kids online

29
00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,520
Speaker 1: saying first day of school, or look at this happy bunch,

30
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,440
Speaker 1: And for me, I'm looking at it going I don't

31
00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,760
Speaker 1: know why there's all these new news articles about the

32
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,880
Speaker 1: potential threats. Obviously I'm not working in the area that

33
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,360
Speaker 1: you're working in. But is it really that risky to

34
00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,040
Speaker 1: post a pic of your kids outside their school or

35
00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,840
Speaker 1: in their school uniform online to celebrate the fact that

36
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:48,680
Speaker 1: they've done something awesome when they're going back to school,

37
00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,360
Speaker 1: or they're about to win the cross country or they've

38
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,400
Speaker 1: won the swimming carnival or whatever it is. What's the

39
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,680
Speaker 1: hype around this and is it overstated or is it legitimate?

40
00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,640
Speaker 2: Okay, it's legitimate, and we welcome the opportunity to talk

41
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,120
Speaker 2: about some of the reasons why we do say it

42
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:10,240
Speaker 2: is legitimate, So we're not for a moment saying don't post.

43
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,600
Speaker 2: It's just that you need to take a moment to

44
00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,359
Speaker 2: work out are you're posting safely. So I think it'd

45
00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,200
Speaker 2: be really a poor message from law enforcement to come

46
00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,200
Speaker 2: out to say no, no, no, don't take photos of

47
00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,800
Speaker 2: your kids, don't share those moments with people in your life.

48
00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,560
Speaker 2: But there are ways to do it that are much

49
00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,359
Speaker 2: more safe than what we frequently see. So we can

50
00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,040
Speaker 2: talk about it from a law enforcement perspective to say,

51
00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,480
Speaker 2: in two key areas of what we see that's quite concerning.

52
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,600
Speaker 2: One is that too there's too much information in the

53
00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,920
Speaker 2: imagery that allows a young person or indeed their family

54
00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,480
Speaker 2: to be groomed for sexual purposes. So that's one really

55
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,240
Speaker 2: concerning aspect. The other thing is that we know when

56
00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,200
Speaker 2: we see devices from offenders, which we do, you know,

57
00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:03,840
Speaker 2: every week in Australia, we see these otherwise innocent images

58
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,320
Speaker 2: ending up in the collection of online child sexual offenders.

59
00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:09,919
Speaker 2: So there's kind of two key things going on there.

60
00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,800
Speaker 2: One is that the information that's contained within those images

61
00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,920
Speaker 2: is used as leverage to pretend that they actually know

62
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,080
Speaker 2: the child in more detail and know more details about them.

63
00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,360
Speaker 2: Than is otherwise safe. And then the other aspect is

64
00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,720
Speaker 2: the fact that you don't know where these images are

65
00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,880
Speaker 2: ending up depending on how they've been shared. So we're

66
00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,720
Speaker 2: not saying don't post, just think about how you're posting.

67
00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,520
Speaker 1: I'd like to talk about the how to post safely discussion.

68
00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,680
Speaker 1: In just a sec I'm hearing what you're saying. I

69
00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,400
Speaker 1: talk to a lot of parents day in and day out.

70
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,440
Speaker 1: I talked to school teachers day in and day out.

71
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,720
Speaker 1: I've got my own six kids, obviously, and while I

72
00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,360
Speaker 1: read about it in the news, hear about it. It's

73
00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,640
Speaker 1: one of those things that happens to other people. It's

74
00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,680
Speaker 1: so far removed from the interactions that I have with

75
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,120
Speaker 1: every day mums and dads that I'm interacting with on

76
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,360
Speaker 1: a day to day basis. This sort of stuff so rarely,

77
00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,200
Speaker 1: so infrequently comes across my path. I feel uncomfortable saying

78
00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,320
Speaker 1: it to you, because obviously, your experience tells you this

79
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,880
Speaker 1: is a big deal. But I kind of, as I

80
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,080
Speaker 1: put myself into the mindset of every day mums and

81
00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,280
Speaker 1: dads who are listened to this conversation, I still kind

82
00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,560
Speaker 1: of resist. It feels like it's so extra. It's like

83
00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,799
Speaker 1: we're asking so much. Are there really that many depraved,

84
00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,640
Speaker 1: warped crazies? I mean, I know, even I'm asking the question,

85
00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,479
Speaker 1: what you're going to say, Yes, there are, But it

86
00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,800
Speaker 1: seems so improbable to me that there are that many

87
00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,080
Speaker 1: people who are out there who are mining online social

88
00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,800
Speaker 1: media platforms for images of my kids, or your kids,

89
00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,880
Speaker 1: or whoever's listened to the podcast right now, for their kids.

90
00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,120
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? It just seems so incredible.

91
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,159
Speaker 1: It seems so far fetched that this is such a

92
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,440
Speaker 1: big deal. How much does this really happen?

93
00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,920
Speaker 2: Well, it's just one of the many tools that an

94
00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,440
Speaker 2: online groomer or an offender might use. So, and we've

95
00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,560
Speaker 2: spoken in the past, we talk about sexual extortion. This

96
00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,560
Speaker 2: is one of the tactics that sexual extorters would use

97
00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,520
Speaker 2: to say, oh, you know, you know me, I'm a

98
00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,120
Speaker 2: friend of a friend, I also go to school X.

99
00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,960
Speaker 2: So they've got that key piece of information that they

100
00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:22,600
Speaker 2: can actually utilize to get through the otherwise barrier that

101
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,120
Speaker 2: they would be putting up to say that. Hang on, man,

102
00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,320
Speaker 2: actually I don't know you, but they've given a key

103
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,159
Speaker 2: piece of information. Oh hang on it, they know what

104
00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,599
Speaker 2: school I go to? Ah, right, and in a big

105
00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,719
Speaker 2: school to make out that you're a friend of a

106
00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:38,200
Speaker 2: friend that's legitimate. Potentially for a young person and their

107
00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,440
Speaker 2: thought processes, that's a form of social engineering. So unfortunately, yes,

108
00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,760
Speaker 2: we do see it in a variety of different grooming

109
00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:52,320
Speaker 2: and extortion type circumstances. Additionally, we absolutely see a lot

110
00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,840
Speaker 2: of kids in school uniforms in the collections. And as

111
00:05:55,839 --> 00:06:00,680
Speaker 2: you might appreciate, over the years when we've been seizing devices,

112
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,600
Speaker 2: the amount of data and the amount of images of

113
00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,640
Speaker 2: that actually equates to just gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

114
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,559
Speaker 2: And we don't want to necessarily see all of these

115
00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,640
Speaker 2: what we might call innocent images ending up in these

116
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,719
Speaker 2: collections because it's hard to know why they're in there,

117
00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,520
Speaker 2: what has the offended done with those images, how have

118
00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,120
Speaker 2: they interacted with them, and why would they even want

119
00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:24,839
Speaker 2: them to be in there, And we've got no idea

120
00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,040
Speaker 2: how they ended up there necessarily, and it might have

121
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,080
Speaker 2: been due to just poor security on behalf of the

122
00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,200
Speaker 2: young person themselves or maybe the adult.

123
00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,120
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you being patient with me in me

124
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,640
Speaker 1: asking that question, but I can't help but think that

125
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,240
Speaker 1: it's one of those things that people must be rolling

126
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,440
Speaker 1: their eyes about. At least a portion of the population,

127
00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:45,840
Speaker 1: we'll be rolling their eyes about and saying, oh, for

128
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 1: goodness sakes, we have to be scared of everything. We

129
00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,560
Speaker 1: can not just post a picture of my kids. So

130
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,560
Speaker 1: let's move to the practical realities. Then if there are

131
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,880
Speaker 1: and of course I take you at your word on this,

132
00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,159
Speaker 1: I absolutely believe you if there are bad actors out

133
00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:04,159
Speaker 1: there who have wicked and evil intentions in terms of

134
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,560
Speaker 1: the way that they might interact either with our children

135
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:11,040
Speaker 1: or just imagery of our children online, but we still

136
00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:15,160
Speaker 1: want to share that photo with the grandparents, or with

137
00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,320
Speaker 1: the artists and uncles, or with our friends circle on

138
00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,560
Speaker 1: social media platforms. I mean, it feels like we should

139
00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:23,360
Speaker 1: have that right, We should be able to do that

140
00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,920
Speaker 1: and do so in a way that doesn't put our

141
00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,120
Speaker 1: children or our families at risk. What kind of advice

142
00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,520
Speaker 1: does the Australian centativecount child exploitation ace in the Austraie

143
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,760
Speaker 1: Federal Police. What kind of advice do you give to

144
00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:37,400
Speaker 1: parents so that they can do so safely.

145
00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,600
Speaker 2: It's really not all that complex. What our message here is.

146
00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,920
Speaker 2: It's about urging parents who want to share those images

147
00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,400
Speaker 2: and we understand parents will want to do that, and

148
00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,200
Speaker 2: that's one of the key benefits in these sorts of

149
00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,920
Speaker 2: social media platforms is to share. Just make sure they

150
00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:59,480
Speaker 2: have appropriate privacy settings in place. That's allways suggesting, so

151
00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 2: you know, you should only share those images with people

152
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,760
Speaker 2: that you know and trust. We would ideally suggest that

153
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,960
Speaker 2: parents if they want to share anything on their own

154
00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,800
Speaker 2: social media platforms so that they actually know everybody that

155
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,360
Speaker 2: they're friends with, are they artificially creating a vulnerbound ability

156
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,760
Speaker 2: because they have friends that I actually know in the

157
00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,080
Speaker 2: real world. So this is an opportunity for parents to

158
00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,840
Speaker 2: do a little bit of a privacy checkup, and there

159
00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,320
Speaker 2: are ways to do that depending on what platform you're on,

160
00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,880
Speaker 2: that are pretty easy. We would just say, have a

161
00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,400
Speaker 2: think about who might actually need access to these children,

162
00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,480
Speaker 2: and yes, keep all of the family in there. That

163
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:42,040
Speaker 2: That's how Facebook currently is really the space for that

164
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,640
Speaker 2: type of sharing. This is why the teenagers have left

165
00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,800
Speaker 2: that particular platform, we know in droves because it's become

166
00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,839
Speaker 2: that kind of more family oriented and we have a

167
00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,640
Speaker 2: lot of the grandparents that have moved into that space,

168
00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:58,160
Speaker 2: which is a positive because I think, you know, that's

169
00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,480
Speaker 2: one of the real pro technology aspects that we can

170
00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,680
Speaker 2: promote to say that for some older Stonans it is

171
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,520
Speaker 2: actually a way to keep connected, particularly if there's any

172
00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,480
Speaker 2: tyranny of distance, as we frequently experience in this country.

173
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,720
Speaker 1: But it's also a protective factor, right, Like if you

174
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,520
Speaker 1: know that your parents and your grandparents, and your aunties

175
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,920
Speaker 1: and your uncles and all of your extended family are

176
00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,720
Speaker 1: on that platform, then you're much less likely to post

177
00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,240
Speaker 1: things that could be incriminating. You're going to be on

178
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:25,000
Speaker 1: your best behavior.

179
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,520
Speaker 2: Yes, for the young people, that's not just say that

180
00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:32,880
Speaker 2: they're on other platforms that parents may or may not

181
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,439
Speaker 2: know about and that they might be doing slightly riskier things.

182
00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,680
Speaker 2: But with the focus on parents, we feel that there's

183
00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,760
Speaker 2: an opportunity for parents to act as good role models.

184
00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:49,160
Speaker 2: So if parents are giving some thought to the type

185
00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:53,400
Speaker 2: of material and the online presence that they're responsible for curating,

186
00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,880
Speaker 2: then they're good role models for their children as well.

187
00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:59,839
Speaker 2: If young people grow up in that environment where parents

188
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,920
Speaker 2: sharing absolutely everything, then it could be that young people

189
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:09,600
Speaker 2: see that as quite normalized behavior and that there is

190
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,560
Speaker 2: a risk where a young person won't necessarily do the

191
00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,600
Speaker 2: same sense checking and you know, showed the same level

192
00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,680
Speaker 2: of care when it comes to posting. So I think

193
00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,600
Speaker 2: it's part of a broader conversation in a family unit,

194
00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,480
Speaker 2: and it's also there's some ethical considerations here as well.

195
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 2: Do the kids themselves want to have their images shared?

196
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,880
Speaker 2: And that's one question, And if kids knew that it

197
00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,800
Speaker 2: was only in a limited and controlled environment, then maybe

198
00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,600
Speaker 2: they're comfortable with that. But they themselves have a role

199
00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:45,480
Speaker 2: in this and maybe some voice. And the other question

200
00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:49,480
Speaker 2: that we sometimes ask of parents is what do you

201
00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,120
Speaker 2: seek the ethics are of sharing images on your profile

202
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,320
Speaker 2: of other children? Do you seek the permission of other

203
00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,480
Speaker 2: parents to do that? You know of parents talking amongst

204
00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,640
Speaker 2: each other about the appropriateness of sharing those sorts of images.

205
00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,920
Speaker 2: So I think these are considerations and questions that I'm

206
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,960
Speaker 2: not sure people are having those sorts of conversations generally.

207
00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,840
Speaker 1: While you were sharing those ideas, I just jumped into

208
00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,479
Speaker 1: my Facebook profile and attempted to just as a rehearsal

209
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,560
Speaker 1: to see how easy this is. Just went to share

210
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,199
Speaker 1: a picture of from one of my photo albums. And

211
00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,080
Speaker 1: when you jump into Facebook, all you have to do

212
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,800
Speaker 1: is there's a button underneath your name. When you're creating

213
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,280
Speaker 1: a post and it says who do you want to

214
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:36,839
Speaker 1: share it with? So I've clicked on that, and I

215
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,400
Speaker 1: can share it publicly with anyone on or off Facebook.

216
00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,280
Speaker 1: I can share it with my friends, or there's another

217
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:47,000
Speaker 1: button close friends or friends accept or specific friends or

218
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,079
Speaker 1: only me. And then there's custom audiences that you can create.

219
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,840
Speaker 1: So I've got a handful of custom audiences in my

220
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,440
Speaker 1: personal profile on Facebook, where if I'm sharing stuff that

221
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,480
Speaker 1: is perhaps a little bit more personal, it only goes

222
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,959
Speaker 1: to that really close group of people, where if it's

223
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,000
Speaker 1: something more I don't know, ostentatious, then I can share

224
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,440
Speaker 1: it a lot more publicly. It's very very easy to

225
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,800
Speaker 1: do it, like you said, but I'm going to guess

226
00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,400
Speaker 1: that most of the time many people are just popping

227
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,559
Speaker 1: it up there and pressing the share button and out

228
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:16,000
Speaker 1: it goes.

229
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, we think that might be happening. And even if

230
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,839
Speaker 2: people are posting your friends only, they may have accepted

231
00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,920
Speaker 2: friendship requests a long time ago and they're not actually

232
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,559
Speaker 2: really real well friends. So having a little think about

233
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,680
Speaker 2: what does your friendship group actually look like? And do

234
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,240
Speaker 2: you actually genuinely know everybody that you are friends with?

235
00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,480
Speaker 2: And do you know that that's where all of these

236
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,760
Speaker 2: images are going of your child with or without their consent.

237
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,320
Speaker 1: Detective Superintendent Jane Crossling from ACE, the Australian Center to

238
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,760
Speaker 1: Counter Child Exploitation. Is there anything else that you think

239
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:55,719
Speaker 1: parents really need to know about other than what we've

240
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,920
Speaker 1: talked about That is, yes, it's okay to share, but

241
00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,960
Speaker 1: do it responsibly. Make sure you know who you're sharing

242
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,920
Speaker 1: within how check those settings and check on permission, like

243
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:06,520
Speaker 1: make sure that the people that you're sharing the images

244
00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,720
Speaker 1: of are cool with you sharing that. Is there anything

245
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,200
Speaker 1: else that would be really important for parents to take

246
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:12,280
Speaker 1: home from this conversation?

247
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,680
Speaker 2: This is just part of a broader conversation that parents

248
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,520
Speaker 2: need to have with children from the moment that a

249
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,880
Speaker 2: child is going to start engaging with technology. So we

250
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:27,439
Speaker 2: absolutely advocate for very very early conversations. Given children, you know,

251
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,600
Speaker 2: at very very young ages start interacting with that technology,

252
00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,120
Speaker 2: that is the time to start having conversations about what

253
00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,680
Speaker 2: can that device do, who can they connect with when

254
00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,960
Speaker 2: they're on a device, what are the expectations around its usage.

255
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:50,880
Speaker 2: We recommend that families consider the contracts that we've mentioned before,

256
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,560
Speaker 2: where you can sit down as a family unit and

257
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,680
Speaker 2: actually work out how technology is appropriately used in that

258
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,640
Speaker 2: household from the moment a young person is actually getting

259
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:06,079
Speaker 2: access to a device, and then having those conversations around

260
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,440
Speaker 2: what does a trusted family member or adult look like

261
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,400
Speaker 2: in the event that they do need to talk to somebody.

262
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,680
Speaker 2: These are all parts of the holistic approach we would

263
00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:22,720
Speaker 2: want to take to online safety. Ensuring that there are

264
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,080
Speaker 2: open doors and ongoing communications so that if something were

265
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,720
Speaker 2: to go wrong, they would know to bring that problem

266
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,040
Speaker 2: to the parent. Having a parent actually sit down and

267
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,280
Speaker 2: look at their own settings, but also the settings of

268
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,120
Speaker 2: any other technology that the young person is using as well.

269
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,800
Speaker 2: Just having that engagement I think is really critical, and

270
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,320
Speaker 2: that means also bringing the child in on the conversation

271
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,760
Speaker 2: about what is getting shared. And you know, as a parent,

272
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,000
Speaker 2: I realized now I've posted some what I think of

273
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:57,160
Speaker 2: funny images of my daughter and she's made reference years

274
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,000
Speaker 2: later just sort of say, you know, never checked with me, mum,

275
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,160
Speaker 2: And I realized, no, no, I actually didn't, and yes

276
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,920
Speaker 2: it was only shared to friends, But I realize now

277
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,600
Speaker 2: that I probably should have been getting just a little

278
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,840
Speaker 2: bit more, you know, consent from her and having that

279
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 2: level of engagement. We talked about safety messages, but we

280
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,760
Speaker 2: didn't talk about those sorts of things as well. So

281
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:25,040
Speaker 2: I think, you know, the obvious thing that we've been

282
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,680
Speaker 2: talking about is back to school, but this is this

283
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,000
Speaker 2: goes beyond that, and the timing of some of our

284
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,080
Speaker 2: messaging has been back to school, but it doesn't just

285
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,280
Speaker 2: stop there. So the obvious message is, you know, don't

286
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,640
Speaker 2: don't show school logos, don't stand in front of your

287
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,920
Speaker 2: house with your street name or your house number, don't

288
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,080
Speaker 2: stand in front of the school sign. It just gives

289
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,000
Speaker 2: way too much information that makes it very, very easy

290
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,320
Speaker 2: for a young person to be grammed. But then the

291
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,320
Speaker 2: conversation can't just stop there. It has to It has

292
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,720
Speaker 2: to be in every facet of their life, when they're

293
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,800
Speaker 2: playing sport, when they're en after school activities and things

294
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,480
Speaker 2: like that, every facet of their life. It just needs

295
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:06,000
Speaker 2: to be an ongoing component in a much more holistic way.

296
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,240
Speaker 1: Really grateful for this conversation. Detective of Superintendent Jane Crossling

297
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,520
Speaker 1: from this train and senator account a Child Exploitation or ACE.

298
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,160
Speaker 1: All the resources for parents who want to know more

299
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,200
Speaker 1: are at the ACE website. That's a triple C, dot

300
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,960
Speaker 1: GV dot A, you yes, and we'll link to that

301
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,480
Speaker 1: in the show notes. Jane, thank you for your pragmatic

302
00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,400
Speaker 1: approach to this, because I really thought for a moment

303
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,640
Speaker 1: that you're going to say, stop sharing photos of your kids.

304
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:33,480
Speaker 1: I love that you've said, do it, but do it

305
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,160
Speaker 1: the right way, do it safely, and make sure that

306
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,920
Speaker 1: you're protecting the interests of your child, and keep on

307
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,640
Speaker 1: having those conversations. I look forward to having you back

308
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,560
Speaker 1: on the podcast again. Look forward to that really soon.

309
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,680
Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Roland from

310
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,000
Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer, and for

311
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,640
Speaker 1: more information about keeping your kids safe, check out the

312
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,840
Speaker 1: ACE website or how to make you family happier. Please

313
00:16:52,920 --> 00:17:00,320
Speaker 1: visit this at happy families dot com dot you m