1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just answers. 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 2: Now, let the kids figure it out. 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 3: And when they've got that level of autonomy, when we 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 3: take the pressure off, they tend to do better because 6 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 3: they know that it's on them. 7 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum 8 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: and dad. 9 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 3: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coilson, the author of a 10 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 3: bunch of books about how to make your family happier. 11 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 3: I'm sitting here in like an Airbnb on the coast, 12 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 3: trying to work out if this feels so strange. 13 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 2: It's not our studio, Kylie. 14 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 4: It does feel a bit echo we It feels a. 15 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 3: Bit everything not quite right, but we're going to get 16 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 3: through this podcast. 17 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 4: In fact, I'm. 18 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 2: Really excited today's topic. 19 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 3: A couple of weeks ago, I had somebody say to me, 20 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 3: you do the whole parental guidance Channel nine talking about 21 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 3: parenting styles, and somebody said, well, what sort of parenting 22 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 3: style are you? I was running a webinar about parenting 23 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 3: styles and I said, well, I don't only get involved 24 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 3: in what I am doing. What I'm doing is highlighting 25 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 3: to you what the research seems to show. I was 26 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 3: talking about how you can be authoritative, which means that 27 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 3: you've got high levels of demandingness and high levels of responsiveness. 28 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 3: Or you can be authoritarian where you're very demanding but 29 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 3: not quite as responsive, or you can be permissive lars 30 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 3: a fair where you're pretty responsive to the kids but 31 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 3: not particularly demanding. And then I started to talk about 32 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,559 Speaker 3: this thing called autonomy supportive parenting, which is where rather 33 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 3: than making demands of your children and being responsive when 34 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 3: they need you, which is what Diana Bormeran's things all about, 35 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:39,279 Speaker 3: autonomy supportive parenting is about being involved with your kids 36 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 3: and helping them to work. 37 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 2: Out how to structure their lives effectively. 38 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 3: It's a totally different approach, and it's all about giving 39 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 3: them a voice, giving them the choice in their lives 40 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 3: to figure things out. And the person was really intrigued 41 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 3: by that, and we had a great chat about it. 42 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 3: But Kylie, the reason we're talking about this today is 43 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 3: because I stumbled upon an article about how Dutch parents. 44 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 3: Dutch parents help their kids to be super self reliant. 45 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 3: In fact, the article which will post in the show 46 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 3: notes the article is from Your Modern Family and it's 47 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 3: called how Dutch parents make their children self reliant. 48 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 2: And I realized as I read the article, we're Dutch. 49 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 4: We're Dutch. We're Dutch, and we didn't even know it. 50 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 2: You're a Dutch mom, I'm a Dutch dad. 51 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 3: At least according to the article, effectively, Dutch parenting seems 52 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 3: to be autonomy supportive parenting. And I'm not surprised when 53 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 3: we look at the way Americans, people in the UK, 54 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 3: Australian's kiwis the way we raise our kids. 55 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: There's a fairly high level. 56 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 3: Of intensity around it, and you and I often clash 57 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 3: in terms of our values and the way we raise 58 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 3: our kids with what the mainstream parenting approach is, which 59 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 3: is authoritarian, authoritative. 60 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 2: That's where most people sit. And I realized, We've. 61 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 3: Just been brought up in the wrong country. I'm glad 62 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 3: I wasn't born in Dutch. What country is Dutch? Is 63 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 3: Dutch Holland Island. I was so glad I wasn't born 64 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 3: in Holland because I don't speak the language. 65 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 4: You have a really hard time getting around, wouldn't you. 66 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 2: But but I parent Dutch, We parent Dutch. Who knew that? 67 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 5: Well? 68 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 4: How do you know that we parent Dutch? 69 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: Well? 70 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 3: Based on this article, there's three or four things that 71 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 3: they've highlighted that Dutch parents do that make their kids 72 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 3: self reliant. 73 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 4: Do they speak Dutch? First? 74 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't want to convinced that speaking Dutch makes 75 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 3: your kids self reliant. But maybe the first one is 76 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 3: that they have fewer rules. Ah, So literally, how many 77 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 3: rules do we have for our kids if you would 78 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 3: list them? Do we have any rules for our children 79 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 3: where we could write out these other rules? 80 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: No? Come on, we have some rules. 81 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 4: We have values. Well, we have that, We've got guide. 82 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 3: The kids don't swear at least we hope they don't 83 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 3: not at home. The kids don't use course language. 84 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 2: That's a rule. 85 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 3: We don't use course language. We don't call names, We 86 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 3: treat each other kindly. Their rules, But like, do the 87 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 3: kids have a bedtime? 88 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 4: Well, if you ask them, they'll tell you no, okay. 89 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: All right? 90 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 3: So we just permissive and the Dutch just permissive. Maybe 91 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 3: we're not Dutch at all. Seriously, So here's what the 92 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 3: article says. Dutch parents don't have many rules. Most things 93 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 3: are negotiable, and discussion is not considered a bad thing. 94 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 3: I mean, isn't that what we do? 95 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,239 Speaker 4: And that's exactly what we do, and that's why I'm saying. 96 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: There's no hard fast this is the way it's going 97 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: to be. 98 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, even with. 99 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 5: Bedtime, because some nights we need to kind of be 100 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 5: a little bit more flexible, whether it be we've been 101 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 5: out or the kids have got extra homework they need 102 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 5: to work through. 103 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 3: So the few rules that they do make are sacred, 104 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 3: and with those rules, Dutch parents are very consequent. The 105 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 3: rest of the family life is designed with the input 106 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 3: of all family members, no matter how young children are. 107 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 3: I just like we have a phrase that we use. 108 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 3: I use it all the time, maybe me more than 109 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 3: anyone else. But this phrase that I use is this 110 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 3: is not a decision. This is a discussion. So it'll 111 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 3: be we're thinking about doing X on the weekend, or 112 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 3: we were looking at doing this for dinner tonight. 113 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 2: It's not a decision. 114 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 3: It's a discussion, which I know really bothers you because 115 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 3: sometimes you just want a decision and sometimes you just 116 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 3: want the kids to do as they're told. But we 117 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 3: tend to have discussions, not decisions, Like there's no unilateral 118 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 3: decision making. It's not like you're the mum, I'm the dad. 119 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 3: Therefore that's what it's going to. 120 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 4: Be yep, yeah, totally. 121 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 2: Okay, here's the second one. Tell me what you think 122 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 2: about this one. 123 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 3: Giving children a voice, giving children input on their life 124 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 3: is an important and sometimes criticize Dutch parenting principle. Young 125 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 3: children are given choices between two kinds of vegetables. Slightly 126 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 3: older kids can choose what's for dinner once a week, 127 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 3: and when they get older, they get to choose their 128 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 3: own sports and hobbies and friends. And that way, if 129 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 3: they decide that they're going to quit music or quit 130 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 3: sport or whatever, it's actually on them and they live 131 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 3: with the consequences of that. And even though the parents 132 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 3: might not like it and might know better, they let 133 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 3: the kids have a voice and have choice. 134 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:48,679 Speaker 2: I just thought we're Dutch. 135 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 5: One of the things I love specifically about that approach 136 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 5: is just the way we're able to build strong, nurturing 137 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 5: relationships with our children because they don't feel like we're 138 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 5: dictating what has to happen in their lives. They actually 139 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 5: feel like they have a say and they get to 140 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 5: have some autonomy and control over what's happening. 141 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I want to be really clear here, our 142 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 3: style and the Dutch style we're Dutch. It's actually just 143 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 3: it's autonomy supportive parenting. And I think this is why 144 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 3: they're so level. They're so balanced, right, I mean people 145 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 3: in that part of the world, whether they're Scandinavian or 146 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 3: Finish or Dutch or whatever. People in that I guess 147 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 3: I'm going to say loosely. I'm not great at geography, 148 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 3: but I'm going to say, loosely, Northern European area. There 149 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 3: seems to be a real balance to the way that 150 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 3: they live, the way that they govern themselves, and that 151 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 3: kind of thing. And I get the sense that what 152 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 3: we're really talking about is this. They're not leaving the 153 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 3: kids to just figure it out for themselves. What they're 154 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 3: saying is, let's explore, let's explain some guidelines, and now 155 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 3: let's empower you to come up with somebody. 156 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 2: That's the three yeas we're Dutch. 157 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 5: Well, after the break, we're going to talk about the 158 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 5: two other things that Dutch parents do and some of 159 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 5: the disadvantages of Dutch parenting. 160 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families. 161 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 6: Podcasts, Happier Family, try a Happy Families membership because a 162 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 6: happy family doesn't just happen. Details at happy Families dot 163 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 6: com dot au. 164 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 5: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for a time 165 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 5: poor parent who just wants answers. 166 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 2: Now. 167 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 3: Dutch parents, they don't put any pressure on their kids. 168 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 2: No pressure. 169 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 4: That means that things often don't happen in a timely fashion. 170 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 3: Things like kids get to explore their own passions. There's 171 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 3: no pressure around school, not making them do homework. They 172 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 3: just get to figure it out for themselves. Don't have 173 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 3: to go straight to university if you want to go 174 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 3: and do a trade or do a community college course 175 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 3: or something. 176 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 2: It take that kind of thing. 177 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 3: I mean, this is sort of sounding like the things 178 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 3: that I've been bleating on about for years. 179 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 2: Right, let the kids figure it out. 180 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 3: And when they've got that level of autonomy, when we 181 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 3: take the pressure off, they tend to do better because 182 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 3: they know that it's on them. 183 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 5: One of the things that we've experienced time and time 184 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 5: again is that by giving our children a voice and 185 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 5: allowing them to have an opinion. 186 00:07:58,800 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: They get noisy. 187 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 5: They get noisy, but sometimes things don't happen and as 188 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 5: timely a fashion as we would. 189 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 3: Like, And sometimes things don't happen, like really, we want 190 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 3: our children to do something and they decide that they 191 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 3: don't want to, and sometimes we just say, well, we 192 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 3: don't really have any rules around this, and so sometimes 193 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 3: that slows things right down because then we have to 194 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 3: have a discussion. It doesn't mean, it doesn't mean that 195 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 3: we're going to necessarily get our way, but we're going 196 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 3: to get curious, not furious. 197 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 2: We're going to explore why. 198 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 5: Well, that was what I was about to say. It 199 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 5: doesn't It also doesn't mean that there needs to be 200 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 5: contention in the home as a result of that. Our 201 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 5: children have a different opinion, they have a different perspective. 202 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 5: They're seeing things so differently to us that if we're 203 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 5: able to take a step back and instead of getting furious, 204 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 5: take the time to be curious about why they feel 205 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 5: the way they do, often our kids have actually talked 206 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 5: us around. 207 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 208 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think this comes back to that principle 209 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 3: that I talked about from times to time that I 210 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 3: got from Stephen Covey that fast is slow and slow 211 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 3: as fast. 212 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 2: So when you're pushing and pushing and pushing. 213 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 3: You can get the result fast, but you have to 214 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 3: keep on going over and over, and the kids start 215 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 3: to rebel, all the relationship suffers. There's not as much 216 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 3: warmth and engagement in that relationship. It's just harder to 217 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 3: get the relationship working, so fast ends up being slow, 218 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 3: whereas slow doing it the Dutch way, doing the autonomy 219 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 3: supportive way, you might have to explore a lot and 220 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 3: spend a lot of time explaining, and then you empower 221 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 3: and sometimes the kids actually will choose, literally choose not 222 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 3: to go down the safe, healthy, wise path that you're 223 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 3: encouraging them to. Sometimes you might end up doing the 224 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 3: kitchen yourself because they've decided not to participate in family life, 225 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 3: and that will lead to other conversations and other considerations. 226 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 2: But it is hard work. 227 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 3: The kid's got big opinions, and sometimes you just have 228 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 3: to go over it again and again and again. 229 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 2: Sometimes it really is slow. 230 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 5: Even as you're talking, I'm thinking about all of the 231 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 5: times that we've had to have the conversation for the 232 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 5: umpteenth time. But what I love about it again, is 233 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 5: pite of the fact that it takes time, is the 234 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 5: way I'm watching our children's minds develop their ability to 235 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 5: articulate an opinion and to be able to back it 236 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 5: up with data, with their own data, their own life data, 237 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 5: to say why this is a good option and that 238 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 5: they have the confidence to share their opinions. 239 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 2: Even if they do it somewhat clumsy sometimes. Yeah yeah. Now, 240 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 2: these are. 241 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 5: Life skills that they're going to need outside of the house, 242 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 5: and we're better to learn and practice than at home 243 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 5: in a safe environment. 244 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. 245 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 3: So Dutch parenting also known as autonomy supportive parenting. The 246 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 3: reason we're talking about this is to highlight this is 247 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 3: kind of how we do it, and it's obviously how 248 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 3: they do it in the Netherlands, so I'd never make 249 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 3: any money over there, like I couldn't have a career 250 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,959 Speaker 3: as a parenting expert over in Holland because they're already 251 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 3: doing it. 252 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 2: But more than anything, what I. 253 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 3: Want to highlight is that it is hard and challenging, 254 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 3: especially in a culture that doesn't necessarily embrace it. But 255 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 3: there's loads evidence behind it. It seems to be one 256 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 3: of the most powerful ways that we can do it. 257 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 3: And the critical thing here is it teaches kids to 258 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 3: be self reliant. They learn to not rely on you 259 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 3: or me and our opinions of them. They learn to 260 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 3: figure things out for themselves. Because of those careful conversations 261 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 3: that we're having as we create the right structure and 262 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 3: stay involved. 263 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 5: I might have a few extra gray. 264 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 2: Heirs, but might feel a look a little tired. 265 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 5: But I just can see light at the end of 266 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 5: the tunnel. As our children start to build in confidence 267 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 5: and their capacity for life. 268 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, they kind of just figure it out. 269 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,559 Speaker 3: We really hope that this has been a helpful conversation 270 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 3: about autonomy supportive parenting, otherwise known at least in this 271 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 3: particular article as Dutch parenting. 272 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 2: We'll link to it in the show notes. 273 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 3: Thank you so much to Justin Rowlan from Bridge Media 274 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 3: he's our producer, and Craig Bruce, our executive producer, for 275 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 3: making the podcast sound as good as it possibly can 276 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 3: while we continue to deal with the stress, hassle, and 277 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 3: drama of trying to move our family. 278 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 2: It feels like this has been going on for a 279 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 2: long time. 280 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 3: Kylie, we really appreciate you listening to the podcast. Thank 281 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 3: you so much for giving your time this morning or 282 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 3: today whatever are you doing your thing to check in 283 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 3: and get some ideas about making your family happier. If 284 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 3: you'd like more info, you can find it at happy 285 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 3: families dot com. 286 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 2: Today you