1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,079 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: Straight Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Tuesday, 8 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: the sixth of February. 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 3: I'm Zara, I'm Sam. 10 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 2: Last week we saw a group of parents, old boys 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: and students gather outside a prestigious boys private school in 12 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 2: Sydney protest against the school's decision to start enrolling girls. 13 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: It's a boys school, it's always been a boys school. 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 2: Basically, they've been setting the parents a lie for all 15 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 2: part of this sort of woke, toxic masculinity type palava. 16 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 2: The decision by Newington College in Sydney's Inner West follows 17 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 2: a trend of single sex schools across the country move 18 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 2: into co education. There's a lot of debate about this 19 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: at the moment, but how exactly do boys and girls 20 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 2: cope differently in co ed environments. We're going to take 21 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 2: a look at this in today's Deep Dive, but first 22 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: Sam what's making today's headlines. 23 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 3: The federal government has announced it plans to introduce fuel 24 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 3: efficiency standards for new cars, which, if passed by Parliament, 25 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 3: will come into effect next year. It means manufacturers will 26 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 3: be required to meet emissions targets before their car models 27 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 3: are approved for sale in Australia. The government said the 28 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 3: measure will push car makers to give motorists more choices 29 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 3: of car models that use less fuel and that have 30 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 3: only been available in overseas markets. 31 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: The act Government is launching an independent review into the 32 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 2: Indigenous incarceration rate, led by First Nations researchers. The inquiry 33 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: will examine over representation of First Nations people in the 34 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: justice system. Lead Professor Linda Coombs described the issue as 35 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 2: an urgent problem. The review's first report is expected in 36 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 2: May of this year, with a final report handed down 37 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:08,679 Speaker 2: later in the year. 38 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 3: Female artists have dominated at these sixty six Grammy Awards, 39 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,119 Speaker 3: with a winners list including Ozzie Kylie Minoak, who won 40 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 3: for Padam Padam. It was Kylie's second Grammy. Her first 41 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 3: win was twenty years ago. In two thousand and four, 42 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 3: Miley Cyrus won her first ever Grammy Award, with other 43 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 3: big wins for Taylor Swift, Billie Eilish Scissor, Victoria Monette, 44 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 3: and even Michelle Obama for her audiobook. 45 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 2: And Today's Good News. Cancer patients in the UK are 46 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: the first to receive mRNA therapy as part of a 47 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 2: new global trial. Comes after the medical technology from the 48 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 2: Maderna and Phizer COVID vaccines successfully reduced the risk of 49 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 2: skin cancer occurring in a recent clinical trial. Researchers believe 50 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: the m RNA treatment could have similar success to treat 51 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 2: other cancers like lung cancer and chunees. The decision to 52 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 2: make a school co ed is not just a change 53 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: in policy, it's an erosion of our heritage. That's a 54 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 2: direct quote from a petition signed by a group of 55 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 2: parents at Newington College who are against the school's decision 56 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 2: to open up enrollments to girls. Now, Newington isn't the 57 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: only school moving away from single sex. It actually joins 58 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 2: a growing list of private schools, and it must be 59 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 2: recognized that it's mostly boys' schools around the country that 60 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 2: are either considering going co ed or have already made 61 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: the switch. Philip Heath is the head of Barker College 62 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 2: in Sydney. In nineteen seventy five, Barker began a very 63 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: long journey of accepting girls into its school that was 64 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: just the years ten, eleven and twelve at the time. 65 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 2: It then began its transition in its junior school in 66 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen and its secondary school the year after. It 67 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 2: became fully co educational by twenty twenty two, TDA journalist 68 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: Chloe Christie spoke to Heath and his colleague Mel Brady 69 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 2: about how the transition has been received. 70 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 4: Philip he thank you so much for joining me. 71 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,119 Speaker 5: Delighted to be here, thanks for having us. 72 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 4: You are the head of Barker College in Hornsby. In 73 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 4: twenty twenty two Barker became a fully co educational campus, 74 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 4: and recently we've seen a thread of single sex private 75 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 4: schools make that same transition. So how has the co 76 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 4: education program at Barker been for both boys and girls. 77 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 5: It's a fifty year long story, so it's scarcely a 78 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 5: flash in the pan. It began in nineteen seventy five, 79 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 5: so because of a lengthy gestation period, if I could 80 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 5: use that language, it's been really well received. It was 81 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 5: seen as actually normal, logical, positive and energizing. 82 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 4: Do you see different learning outcomes come out from boys 83 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 4: or girls? Or how did the boys and girls mix 84 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 4: on campus? 85 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 5: When we made the announcement, there was some regret from 86 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 5: some of our middle years boys that they would no 87 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 5: longer be just lads together. It didn't last very long. Actually, 88 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 5: they discovered that the arrival of the girls actually was 89 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 5: really good for everybody. But a kind of nostalgia almost 90 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 5: crept in inside the classroom. Apart from the curious separation 91 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 5: that you get on boys on one section of the classroom, 92 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 5: girls on another, and that's almost universal and it still 93 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 5: goes on. It quickly became so normal and natural it's 94 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 5: hard to imagine a previous time, and it really enriched 95 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 5: the conversation, enliven the learning process. Mel Brady, who's with me, 96 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 5: she looked over the whole process, is an expert teacher 97 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 5: and she will have her own views on the impact 98 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 5: in the classroom. 99 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 6: Look, I think when you teach a new class at 100 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 6: the start of the year, the kids group themselves together 101 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 6: based on who they know common interests, and children who 102 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 6: don't know each other will. 103 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 7: Tend to group themselves together as the ones who don't 104 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 7: know each other until they start to mix, and it's 105 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 7: fairly normal, I think for all schools. And we found 106 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 7: in the year seven and then when we have children, 107 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 7: joy And used to have a big intake of girls 108 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 7: in year ten that would be the case. The boys 109 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 7: would all sit together and the girls would all sit together, 110 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 7: and then after about two weeks they mix and the 111 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 7: teachers are cajoling them along to work together and get 112 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 7: along and do group work and lots of collaboration, so 113 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 7: they feel like they're part of a bigger part of 114 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 7: a whole. And I think that's really important part of 115 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 7: Barker's culture as well, to realize that you are interconnected 116 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 7: and then you are. 117 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 5: One piece of a larger hole. 118 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 4: This week we saw some parents and some old boys 119 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 4: of the Newington community protest outside the gates opposing the 120 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 4: school's plan to transition into co education. So how do 121 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,799 Speaker 4: you feel seeing that kind of a response. 122 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 5: Look, I have a lot of respect for the passionate 123 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 5: commitment that people have to supporting what they know and understand, 124 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 5: and I've always valued the moment you make a change, 125 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 5: it begins to look like you're criticizing the past, that 126 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 5: there's something wrong that you're trying to fix, rather than 127 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 5: seeing it as a natural evolutionary process, that which was 128 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 5: created in the nineteenth century and a model that worked 129 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 5: so well for us for a very long time isn't 130 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 5: quite answering the same societal questions. So it made me 131 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 5: sad and it made me feel full of respect for 132 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 5: those minds that they need to be listened to and 133 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 5: their affection for the school embraced, but also hearing contrary 134 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 5: views that explore what do we do now, how do 135 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 5: we develop our students now for a world that's very 136 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 5: different from the eighteen sixties. 137 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 4: Does that line up with what you experienced at Barker 138 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 4: when the call was made to enroll girls. 139 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 5: Yes, it was we're going back a long time the seventies. 140 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 5: But people left, some staff resigned or left shortly after 141 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 5: one or two council members felt in conscience they couldn't 142 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 5: remain continuing to serve. As I say, it was a 143 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 5: substantial change. In More recently, we had the famous story 144 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 5: of Elissa Healy, who's now the Australian women's cricket captain, 145 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 5: who was selected as the keeper for the first eleven 146 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 5: at Barker and playing against the boys, and it was 147 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 5: I'm going back here to the naughties, I think it was, 148 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 5: and to see the reaction to that, you would read 149 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 5: that now in a very different light to the way 150 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 5: it was seen then. So that's why I think in 151 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 5: these things, when people raise objection, it's not because they're 152 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 5: awful or their dinosaurs or their misogynists or something. That 153 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 5: there's something in their heart that they feel resentful about 154 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 5: and needs to be understood as we searched for a 155 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 5: way to go forward. Yeah, I wasn't surprised by that, 156 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 5: and we did have that too, but by comparison in 157 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 5: twenty eighteen through to twenty twenty two, that was largely missing. 158 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 5: And I think that's partly because everyone knew that the 159 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 5: Barker Cohed experiment had been very positive and the overwhelming 160 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 5: sentiment here is welcome, not universal, but overwhelming. 161 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 4: Melissa and Philip, thank you so much for jumping on 162 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 4: the pod today. You've been so helpful, so thank you. 163 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 5: Great to talk to you. 164 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 3: Thanks so much for listening to that episode of The 165 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 3: Daily Os. If you're listening to this on Spotify, why 166 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 3: not let us know what you think of that episode. 167 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 3: There's a little question box under the show notes and 168 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 3: you can just pop in some thoughts and we'll have 169 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 3: a read. We'll be back again tomorrow. Until then, have 170 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 3: a great day already, And this is the daily This is. 171 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 7: The daily ours. 172 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 4: Oh, now it makes sense.