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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, we have come so far as a society in

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Speaker 2: relation to our ideology around women and men and gender

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Speaker 2: in general, and yet we've got somebody out here who

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Speaker 2: is like literally out on his own limb, and he's

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Speaker 2: building traction.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy

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Speaker 3: Families dot com treu and the parenting expert and co

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Speaker 3: host of Channel nine's Parental Guidance. Season two is coming soon, Kylie.

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Speaker 3: I'm here with Kylie, my wife.

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Speaker 2: I've been tasting for a while.

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Speaker 3: I have been teasing for a long time. You're right,

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Speaker 3: and all I can tell you is coming soon. Channel

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Speaker 3: nine haven't actually told me how soon, but it's coming soon.

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Speaker 3: They keep saying coming soon to nine.

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Speaker 2: Don't hold your breath.

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Speaker 3: I know I'm holding my breath. Also, we have received

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Speaker 3: news from my publisher that my brand new book, The

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Speaker 3: Parenting Revolution, will be coming out in the first week

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Speaker 3: of May. First week of May. The Parenting Revolution will

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Speaker 3: keep you updated. Pre orders will be available soon, not

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Speaker 3: just yet, but soon. Now Kylie. I know it's a

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Speaker 3: Monday and we don't really talk about a light of

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Speaker 3: parenting topic, but today a topic that I think needs

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Speaker 3: to be discussed. I've had a number of people email

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Speaker 3: me about it. I've had a staff member asked me

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Speaker 3: about it. Our executive producer Craig has been on to

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Speaker 3: me saying, you've got to talk about this issue. And

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Speaker 3: the issue is a person, Andrew Tate. So today's podcast,

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Speaker 3: for any parent who is wondering what's going on with

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Speaker 3: this guy, is all about Andrew Tate.

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Speaker 2: I'm just going to plead ignorant. Who is Andrew Tate?

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Speaker 3: So I'm curious to like, do you really don't know

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Speaker 3: who he is? Haven't heard of him?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so I do live under a rock.

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Speaker 3: Oh, don't be like that.

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Speaker 2: Six children?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well it's that, but we've got a whole lot

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Speaker 3: of kids.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So here's the summary of this Guyally, he's a sort

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Speaker 3: of a pom slash yank who had I'm going to say,

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Speaker 3: a semi successful kickboxing career. So there's a whole lot

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Speaker 3: of masculinity wrapped up in the fact that this guy's

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Speaker 3: strong and gets into the ring and tries to beat

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Speaker 3: people up and have people try to beat him up.

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Speaker 3: Some years ago, he ended up on Big Brother, but

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Speaker 3: he got kicked off the show for having I think

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Speaker 3: we could only call it aggressive intimate relations with a woman.

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Speaker 3: He was beating her with a belt, he was barking

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Speaker 3: commands at her. In Now I've struggled to say the

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Speaker 3: next sentence, but I'm going to say it anyway in

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Speaker 3: his defense, and it's hard to say that, But in

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Speaker 3: his defense, they've both come out on the record and

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Speaker 3: said that it was consensual and it was simply a

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Speaker 3: case of BDSM, which is plausible, and let's just go

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Speaker 3: with that for now. But Big Brother kicked him off

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Speaker 3: anyway because he was a racist, homophobic, just a real

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Speaker 3: horrible guy on social media already, and so the controversy

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Speaker 3: when it came out when he was on Big Brother,

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Speaker 3: it kind of gave them an easy reason to just

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Speaker 3: kick him off the show anyway. In addition to that,

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Speaker 3: he's I think it's fair to say he's ridiculously abusive,

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Speaker 3: and he holds some not pretty he holds some disgusting views.

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Speaker 3: I've seen him on TikTok and on YouTube. So he's

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Speaker 3: been banned from pretty much all of these platforms.

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Speaker 2: But see, how do people know him off he's banned.

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Speaker 3: Because people have gotten his videos when he was there

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Speaker 3: and they just keep on forwarding them and sharing them.

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Speaker 3: And like he still is everywhere. Even though he's been banned,

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Speaker 3: people are still sharing his content, so he is still

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Speaker 3: on there even though it's not him sharing it. But

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Speaker 3: there are videos of him saying things like, if a

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Speaker 3: woman accuses you of cheating, you should slap a face hard,

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Speaker 3: grab her in a choke hold and tell her to

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Speaker 3: shut up. And then there's some profanities in there. And

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Speaker 3: that's just one of many that are out there. You

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Speaker 3: can source this stuff on TikTok. It won't take long

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Speaker 3: to find it. Just do a quick search for that.

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Speaker 3: He actually there was a video that I saw where

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Speaker 3: he advocates not putting her in a chokehold, but holding

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Speaker 3: a mashety to her throat. I mean, the guy's violent, aggressive,

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Speaker 3: and well, I think pretty gross is a real understatement.

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Speaker 3: Beyond that, though, he is a self confessed misogynist, like

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Speaker 3: he's happy to say yes I am, that's the word

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Speaker 3: that he uses. A misogynist, for those who are not

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Speaker 3: familiar with the term, is someone who has dislike of,

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Speaker 3: or contempt for, or an ingrained prejudice against women. So

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Speaker 3: he's on the record publicly is saying yep, that's me,

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Speaker 3: and I'm cool with that. That's who he is. And

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Speaker 3: of course the most recent thing was, in fact a

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Speaker 3: couple of recent things. He got into a big fight

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Speaker 3: and argument with Great Tundberg around issues to do with

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Speaker 3: the environment. As you know, she's a big environmental activist,

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Speaker 3: and he started posting pictures of all of his sports

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Speaker 3: cars and talking about how he doesn't care about the

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Speaker 3: environment at all and he can do whatever he wants

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Speaker 3: because that's the kind of guy that he is, And

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Speaker 3: so they had a big back and forth, which was

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Speaker 3: kind of silly really, And then he was recently he

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Speaker 3: moved to Romania so that he could start an e

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Speaker 3: brothel with his brother. He said that the police in

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Speaker 3: Romania are less likely to investigate any sexual or domestic

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Speaker 3: abuse in Romania. So I don't know anything about Romanian

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Speaker 3: politics and policing and laws, although I know that the

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Speaker 3: country doesn't have the best standards when it comes to

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Speaker 3: policing and legal stuff. It may not it may be

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Speaker 3: more corrupt than Australia. He's what I'll say, but I'll

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Speaker 3: say maybe because I don't know a lot about it.

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Speaker 3: I have a friend who told me, and I'm going

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Speaker 3: to go with my friend because he knows more than

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Speaker 3: me about that sort of stuff. But he has been

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Speaker 3: imprisoned in Romania, had his home raided over reports of

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Speaker 3: human trafficking. The guy, I mean, the guy is just horrible.

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Speaker 3: He's absolutely horrible.

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Speaker 2: So I'm trying to understand that if he is everything

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Speaker 2: that you're suggesting that he is, why is there so

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Speaker 2: much traction behind him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I read an article just a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 3: and I've had several teachers tell me this. As you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm in and out of schools regularly talking to stuff.

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Speaker 3: In fact, I was in a school in Adelaide last

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Speaker 3: year and they wanted me to talk about Andrew Tate

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Speaker 3: without mentioning his name. They said, we basically want to

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Speaker 3: talk to you about who you're being influenced by as

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Speaker 3: a student. And they said, and we know that our

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Speaker 3: kids are being influenced by Andrew Tate, but we don't

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Speaker 3: want you to mention Andrew Tate. And I found in

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Speaker 3: a news dot com Dot a U article a little

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Speaker 3: while ago maybe like two weeks ago where a school

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Speaker 3: teacher basically said, quote my male students, just quote his name.

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Speaker 3: I could be teaching a class about pyramids in Egypt

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Speaker 3: and they'll be like, what do you think about Andrew

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Speaker 3: Tate Lthy'll start chanting his name, which becomes this huge disruption.

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Speaker 3: So what is happening is this guy's got enormous traction

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Speaker 3: even though he holds these repulsive, repulsive views. An ABC

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Speaker 3: article just came out I think I was published on Wednesday,

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Speaker 3: the twenty fifth. We'll linked to it in our show notes.

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Speaker 3: Survey finds a third of teen boys look up to

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Speaker 3: internet celebrity and self described misogynist Andrew Tait. So this

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Speaker 3: guy is out there, he's everywhere, and it's our boys

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Speaker 3: in particular, not so many girls, but our boys in

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Speaker 3: particular who say that they're looking up to him, and

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Speaker 3: they are. They're connecting with a lot of his messaging.

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Speaker 2: So we obviously have a house full of girls. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but as a result, we actually associate with humorous amount

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Speaker 2: of boys as well. Right, and I have a hard

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Speaker 2: time believing that the kinds of boys that my girls

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Speaker 2: are associating with would feel any identification towards a man

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Speaker 2: who is openly sharing these kind of just disgraceful views.

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Speaker 2: So what is it that's drawing kids to I mean,

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Speaker 2: does he have any redeeming qualities?

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Speaker 3: I'll share what I think about that upbreak. It's the

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Speaker 3: Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time for parent

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Speaker 3: who just wants answers. Now, Kylie has asked the question,

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Speaker 3: does Andrew Tate have any redeeming qualities? So this is

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Speaker 3: the thing when it comes to this guy. We put

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Speaker 3: some stuff on Facebook a couple of weeks ago where

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Speaker 3: I raised the topic, and while the overwhelming majority of people,

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Speaker 3: overwhelming majority of people said this guy is just a

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Speaker 3: dirt bag, there were a handful of people, mums and

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Speaker 3: dads who came to his defense and said he's not

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Speaker 3: that bad. He actually says some really good stuff, and

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Speaker 3: if you can just ignore the bad stuff, he says

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Speaker 3: some stuff that's really good. So what's really happened here

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Speaker 3: is you've got a guy who's got an outsized online profile.

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Speaker 3: His social media profile was outsized. Obviously, he's been deplatformed

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Speaker 3: by everyone, although Twitter has let him back of now,

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Speaker 3: but Elon Musk has taken over there. But he's got

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Speaker 3: this outsized profile, and he's said and done a range

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Speaker 3: of things that are, in a word, transgressive. He's saying

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Speaker 3: and doing things that no one else will say. And

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Speaker 3: while many of those things are really terrible, there are

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Speaker 3: actually a whole lot of things that he also says

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Speaker 3: that are not terrible at all. So he's kind of

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Speaker 3: got this quasi inspirational momentum around him where he's saying,

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Speaker 3: if you get up early, and if you do this

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Speaker 3: in the morning, and he kind of steps his followers

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Speaker 3: through a range of things that he thinks can help

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Speaker 3: them to be more productive, or to be healthier, or

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Speaker 3: to live life to the fullest based on whatever it is.

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Speaker 3: It's just that he's doing it. And what I would

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Speaker 3: consider to be essentially a values free system, particularly as

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Speaker 3: it relates to the way we treat other people. It's

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Speaker 3: very women specific women specifically other people more generally. I mean,

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Speaker 3: he's pretty happy to encourage people to be boys and

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Speaker 3: men to be brutal to other boys and men as well.

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Speaker 3: It's a doggy dog world, and he's absolutely convinced that

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Speaker 3: if you can kick the absolute heck out of somebody,

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Speaker 3: that you're more of a man than they are. So

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Speaker 3: he is absolutely misogynistic. But he doesn't only recommend that

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Speaker 3: men are unkind, violent, prejudiced towards women. He recommends that

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Speaker 3: they are like that to one another as well. To

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Speaker 3: be the alpha, to be the top dog, but he

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Speaker 3: does I mean, I jumped on. I got lost in

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Speaker 3: the Andrew Tate rabbit hole for a couple of hours recently,

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Speaker 3: just so that I could really get my head around

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Speaker 3: this guy. And he says a whole lot of things.

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Speaker 3: He's not a good speaker, he's not inspirational at all.

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Speaker 3: But because he's transgressive and because he is the alpha

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Speaker 3: dog in the eyes of so many young boys, remember,

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Speaker 3: boys who want status, boys who want to be tough,

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Speaker 3: and boys who wants to be transgressive. Because it gets

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Speaker 3: it's like their great big middle finger to everyone in

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Speaker 3: their school, or everyone in their class, or everyone in

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Speaker 3: their community. They get to say, you can't tell me

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Speaker 3: what to do. I'm tough. I can do it because

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Speaker 3: Andrew Tate told me to. So a lot of people

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Speaker 3: are coming to his defense and saying, not that big

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Speaker 3: of a deal, but they're missing the worst of what

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Speaker 3: he does, or they're downplaying it because apparently there are

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Speaker 3: some redeeming aspects to some of his messaging in some places, I'm.

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Speaker 2: Listening to your talk and I honestly my stomach is churning.

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Speaker 2: I'm really struggling to sit with any amount of comfortability

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Speaker 2: about who he is and what he stands for. And

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Speaker 2: that's coming secondhand. I'd hate to actually be engaged in

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Speaker 2: this firsthand. But what intrigues me is that as we

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Speaker 2: go throughout life, we find ourselves in unfamiliar settings, we

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Speaker 2: find ourselves in places where we're not sure where things

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Speaker 2: fit with our value systems, and as an adult with

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Speaker 2: maturity and life experience, more times than not, we're able

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Speaker 2: to as one parent. You've actually obviously said already one

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Speaker 2: parent is you're able to take the good and leave

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Speaker 2: behind the bad. You're actually able to separate in spite

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Speaker 2: of the fact they might come from the same place.

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Speaker 2: You're able to say, you know what, this actually works

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Speaker 2: for me. This sits really well with my value system.

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Speaker 2: But this stuff over here, I'm going to leave this

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Speaker 2: to the side. This doesn't fit. But when we're talking

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Speaker 2: about teenagers and boys in particular, and we know that

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Speaker 2: you're the psychologist, so you're probably explain it a bit

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Speaker 2: better than me, But we know that their brains don't

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Speaker 2: they're not fully formed yet, that their executive function is

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Speaker 2: not one hundred percent. And so you've got this celebrity who,

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Speaker 2: from time to time says something brilliant, but he also

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Speaker 2: says a whole heap of stuff that is so damaging

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Speaker 2: and so negative, and they can't filter through it all,

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Speaker 2: and they just there's this idolization process that comes with

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Speaker 2: that celebrity status, and they hang on every word and

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Speaker 2: that idea that because he's so popular, I just want

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Speaker 2: to be like everybody else. Everybody knows what his lady's

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Speaker 2: thing is, everyone knows what he's talking about, and I

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Speaker 2: want to be that. I actually don't know where to

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Speaker 2: go with that, because I can see in so many

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Speaker 2: ways we have come so far as a society in

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Speaker 2: relation to our ideology around women and men and gender

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Speaker 2: in general. And you know what is deemed respectful across

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Speaker 2: the board, whether it be in the work environment, the

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Speaker 2: school environment, the home environment. And yet we've got somebody

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Speaker 2: out here who is like literally out on his own

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Speaker 2: limb and he's building traction. What does that say about

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Speaker 2: where we are?

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Speaker 3: It says a lot about the algorithms quite honestly, I mean,

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Speaker 3: the algorithms reward people who are transgressive, the algorithms reward

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Speaker 3: people who are inciting outrage and inflaming and stoking fires

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Speaker 3: of frustration.

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Speaker 2: It's all about numbers, very very much.

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Speaker 3: I think that if this guy had appeared on the

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Speaker 3: scene before the algorithms do what they do, he would

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Speaker 3: have just been put into a box and everyone would

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Speaker 3: have walked away from him. But the algorithms have actually

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Speaker 3: lifted him and elevated him, because that's one of the

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Speaker 3: I was going to say unforeseen, but I'm not sure

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Speaker 3: if that's quite the right word. But that's one of

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Speaker 3: the side effects of having the social media world that

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Speaker 3: we have my interest here, as we try to deal

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Speaker 3: with this guy whose viewpoints surrounding hyper masculinity and misogyny

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Speaker 3: and homophobia and racism, our kids continue to be exposed

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Speaker 3: to him and those of his ilk. I think what

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Speaker 3: we really need to do is spend some time talking

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Speaker 3: just in the last mineral or two of the podcast,

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Speaker 3: about what we can do as parents if our kids

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Speaker 3: start to talk about this guy, and maybe even suggest

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Speaker 3: that they have a level of interest, a level of compulsion,

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Speaker 3: a level of fascination with him, And my number one

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Speaker 3: thing would be I would say, so you like Andrew taate,

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Speaker 3: why why don't we sit down and watch some of

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Speaker 3: it together? Like I would literally sit and watch a

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Speaker 3: couple of videos together and find the original stuff. Don't

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Speaker 3: find people's reaction videos on YouTube. Go and find a

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Speaker 3: couple of original pieces and listen to what he says,

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Speaker 3: Listen to what he says in interviews, listen to what

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Speaker 3: he said on a podcast, and as he says things,

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Speaker 3: pause every time he makes a claim and ask you

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Speaker 3: a child, is that healthy? Is that safe? Is that

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Speaker 3: consistent with the values that we've raised you with? And

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Speaker 3: you'll find that I reckon about forty fifty maybe even

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Speaker 3: sixty percent of the time you're not on your head and go, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it actually it is. And then he'll say something at

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Speaker 3: the end of a sentence, usually where everybody will just go,

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Speaker 3: holy cow, is this guy for real? And that's when

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Speaker 3: you get to say to I, kiddo, and what about that?

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Speaker 3: And you'll watch your child just maybe squirm a little

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Speaker 3: bit and saying oh yeah, but and you say no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: oh yeah. But the first half of the sentence was

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Speaker 3: probably okay, but the second half of the sentence. And

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Speaker 3: here's the analogy that I like. I would say to

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Speaker 3: my kids, Okay, so fifty percent of it's good and

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Speaker 3: fifty percent of its rank. If I made you a cookie,

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Speaker 3: a chocolate chip cookie with fifty percent real ingredients and

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Speaker 3: fifty percent dog poo, would you eat the cookie? And

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Speaker 3: the answer is going to be no, No one's going

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Speaker 3: to eat a fifty percent dog pooh cookie. And if

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Speaker 3: Andrew Tate even comes in at ten percent or twenty percent,

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Speaker 3: and I can assure you, having watched what I've watched,

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Speaker 3: that it's worse than that. No one's going to be

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Speaker 3: eating that cookie if it's a real life cookie. So therefore,

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Speaker 3: why are we consuming his content and just writing it off?

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Speaker 3: It's not helpful. My sense is that if we have

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Speaker 3: those kinds of gentle but honest conversations with the kids

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Speaker 3: and show hey, we're big enough, we're grown ups. We

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Speaker 3: can listen to this stuff and then pick it apart,

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Speaker 3: teach them how to critique it, that's where we're going

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Speaker 3: to get the cut through. And then the question becomes,

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Speaker 3: so if this comes up at school or if everyone's

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Speaker 3: talking about it, what do you reckon? Is the best

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Speaker 3: way to respond and get the kids involved in the

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Speaker 3: problem solving. That's where we make the progress, and that's

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Speaker 3: where we get to help our children, even though they're

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Speaker 3: differentiating from us in their adolescent years, particularly, we get

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Speaker 3: them to consider what their values really are and respond

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Speaker 3: to us with useful and proper conversations.

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Speaker 2: So, even though you haven't articulated this very clearly and

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Speaker 2: in your response, I'm going to suggest that one of

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Speaker 2: the most important things in having these conversations with our

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Speaker 2: kids is about being able to come into the conversation

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Speaker 2: almost non bias.

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Speaker 3: I think it's even better than that. Come in and say,

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Speaker 3: I'm not really across this, but let's learn about this together.

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Speaker 3: Don't come in as the expert, come in as the interested.

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Speaker 3: I'm worried and I'm hearing things. Let's investigate, let's figure

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Speaker 3: it out together.

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Speaker 2: It's really as easy as a parent when you're worried

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Speaker 2: about things to kind of come across angry or want

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Speaker 2: to step down hard and put in rules and boundaries

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Speaker 2: in place to keep our children safe. But when we're

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Speaker 2: talking about teenagers and their absolute need for autonomy and independence,

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Speaker 2: I think the most important thing for us to remember

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Speaker 2: is that the more we can come at it, as

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Speaker 2: you suggested, from that inquisitive framework, we're actually going to

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Speaker 2: have more influence than we will if we come in

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Speaker 2: as the parent who's stepping down hard.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because force creates resistance. That's it. So we really

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Speaker 3: hope that this has been a useful conversation for those

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Speaker 3: of you who are not across the guy. Hopefully you

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Speaker 3: don't even need to go and look him up, and

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Speaker 3: hopefully your kids aren't that interested. Remember, the stats are

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Speaker 3: showing somewhere between twenty five and thirty three percent of kids,

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Speaker 3: our teenage boys are looking up to him. That means

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Speaker 3: that a whole lot of boys actually recognize that he

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Speaker 3: is what he is, which is a human who is

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Speaker 3: not living and encouraging values that are consistent with what

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Speaker 3: we would hope. And therefore that means that a lot

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Speaker 3: of us are not going to find this relevant. But

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Speaker 3: hopefully for those of us who are struggling with it

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Speaker 3: or wanted to know more, there's enough here to just

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Speaker 3: be that little bit more helpful for you. The Happy

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Speaker 3: Family's podcast produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig

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Speaker 3: Bruce is our executive producer. If you'd like more, and

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Speaker 3: fo about how to make you family happy. Please visit

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Speaker 3: us at happy families dot com, dot a