WEBVTT - Tipping Point 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:16.240 This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother, teacher 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:21.360 friend missing for twenty six years. 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:24.759 You know, no sign that she was going to vanish, 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:25.520 that's for sure. 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:30.080 The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance. 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.680 I'm not sure if it was intentional. There something more 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:33.599 foul afoot. 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.080 If you could imagine a teacher coming straight from say 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.400 little house on the prairie to the eighties, that was 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:40.080 Marian Barter. 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:45.800 What I say, whether you find Marian Barter dead or alive, 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:50.599 I honestly believe somebody has that key piece of information. 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:54.760 And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum. 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:59.480 Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave. 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:03.920 I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:08.400 that somebody knows something. 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:21.600 The lady vanishes, episode fifty six. I'm Alison Sandy. 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:21.360 And I'm Brian Seymour. 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:28.399 On February twenty nine, the world will find out what 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.639 the New South Wales Coroner believes happened to Marian Barter 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:38.040 when Teresa O'Sullivan hands down her findings after what's turned 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.080 out to be more than two years of stop star 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:50.360 inquest hearings into Marion's disappearance. It's a memorable date, a 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:55.240 leite year day, marking an incredible journey of almost twenty 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:59.480 seven years searching for Marion's daughter, Sally, and more than 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:04.240 five years since the Lady Vanish's team first started collaborating. 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:11.280 What's kept driving us all forward is that gut feeling 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:18.359 that something wasn't right. Sally had it from the outset. 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.320 Based on the fact of how quickly she quit school 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:22.040 and left. 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.799 This is when we first interviewed her in twenty nineteen. 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:29.920 She was not happy. She was very upset, she was frazzled. 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:35.600 Something had happened, something has happened to make her leave. 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.320 The late Rebecca Cotts, who worked for the Australian Federal 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:46.480 Police Missing Persons Unit, also had that unsettling gut feeling. 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:51.760 My opinion on the case, I think obviously there's something 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:53.720 that's happened to Mary and she hasn't just walked away 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.040 from her life, and she had so much to live 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.399 for and loved her kids and her family. I guess 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:03.120 they knows the truth. Somebody out there has the key 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:03.960 to the puzzle. 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:14.240 Retired super Detective Ron Iddles believed the case could be cracked. 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:15.480 The answers always in the file. 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:20.040 Somebody within the community, either here in Australia or overseas, 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:22.080 knows exactly what's happened. 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:30.840 He was right, The answer was in the file. The 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:33.720 key to unlocking the case was in the name Marion, 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:41.680 adopted by deed Pole Flora Bella Natalia Marion Ramicel super sleuth. 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.640 Joni was first to find the piece to the puzzle 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:51.120 that changed everything, monsieur, the personal ad for a man 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:58.880 looking for love multiple pile. It raised everyone's suspicions. 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:03.440 I can make definitely see, you know, even from a 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.920 week or a few weeks in, I think that Marion 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:13.600 was potentially a prime candidate for getting sort of swept up, captured, 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:17.120 you know, sell your house, sell everything, Let's go and 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:21.600 live in Luxembourg with the all of the lavender Bush's 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:24.720 and the music and the art and the French speaking 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:26.719 multiple languages. 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:35.640 Then police detectives brought Rick Blum into the frame. A 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:40.440 man who admits romancing Marian in the months before her disappearance, 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:45.680 a man with a history of fraud, multiple aliases, and 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:50.600 a reputation across two continents as a swindler who targets 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:55.200 vulnerable women and makes off with their money, a man 0:04:55.640 --> 0:05:04.479 who blatantly lied repeatedly while giving evidence under oath. But 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:08.600 just how will it stack up? On February twenty nine. 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:12.760 Sali, Regardless of what's in the findings, how hopefully you 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.160 that they will bring you some sense of closure or satisfaction. 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:21.840 The findings is a really important part of the case. Obviously, 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.680 it brings some resolution as to what has actually happened 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:29.200 to my mum after years and years of investigation and 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.919 you know, to nearly three decades of me trying to 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:36.920 find the answers. So I don't know if closure is 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:41.800 the right word for it, but it definitely will have 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:46.719 a point of resolution where we can pause and stop 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.440 and think and you know, give me an opportunity to 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:54.280 have a memorial service from my mum understanding what has 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:58.440 happened a little better than where we were before this 0:05:58.520 --> 0:05:59.480 all took place. 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:01.320 What does it mean to you to get to this 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.040 point in the journey to find out what happened to you, mum? 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:07.480 Well, everybody who's been following along on the podcast will 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.920 know all too well the challenges that I've been facing 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.960 for twenty seven years now on trying to get some 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.440 answers and some clarity and just even some people to 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:22.560 actually help me. It's been it's been a huge challenge 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.880 and quite the milestone to get to this point in 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:29.200 the journey, I think where you know, we've done things 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.960 like petitions to get Mum put on the missing Person's 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:34.760 register for the very first time, and you know, I 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:39.159 wrote to the Coroner's Court requesting an inquest be held 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:41.560 into Mum and then we had the support of everyone 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:46.120 listening along on the podcast who helped those situations be 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:49.919 pushed forward and to get us to this point. So 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.440 you know, it's it's been a hard journey. It's not 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:57.840 been easy, but I've tried my best to stay level 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:03.240 headed and calm and making sure that my family is 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:07.279 safe and well and that I am healthy and well, 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:09.240 because that's important as well. 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.560 Sally has invited her supporters to watch online for the 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:17.400 live stream as Coroner Teresa O'Sullivan delivers her findings. Will 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.440 be providing a link on our social pages, or you 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:23.680 can join Sally at the Coroner's Court at Lidcombe in 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:28.000 Sydney on Thursday February twenty nine at nine thirty am 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:32.960 Australian Eastern Daylight saving time, Sally suggests wearing a splash 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.200 of green in memory of Marion. Can you talk about 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.720 the support you're getting from people around the world following 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:40.520 you and your story. 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:45.880 The worldwide support has been absolutely mind blowing. I never 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:49.000 thought in a million years, by simply telling my story 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.760 about my missing mum that I would have the reach 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:56.240 that we've had and the support that has come from that. 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:01.480 It's amazing. I am just so grateful to everybody. And 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:04.280 I've said it many times before, but I will say 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.920 again that I wouldn't have got to this point had 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.400 I not had that love and support in the show 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:13.480 of care for my mum after so long and feeling 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.520 like no one really did care enough to want to 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:21.440 help me find the answers. Recently, we had someone send 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:25.800 us a photo of where they'd written Mom's name in 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:29.200 the sand, and Jackie mullin if I can give her 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:31.440 a shout out, she's in Scotland, and she came up 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.760 with the idea of getting everybody to do it and 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:38.040 sending her the photos and she would put it into 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.560 a collage as such. And it's such a beautiful thing 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:46.120 for me and my family to look at and just 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:49.320 know that my mom does matter. And you know, I've 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:53.800 been using the hashtag Marion matters and hashtag the missing matter, 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.920 and they do matter. And it shouldn't be a case 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:58.640 of oh well, we'll look for a little bit and 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:01.959 we'll put it to the side. You know, they'll be right, mate, 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.480 That's not the case. These people do matter. 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:12.480 In twenty twenty three, more than fifty five thousand people 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.720 were reported missing in Australia, an average of around one 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:19.760 hundred and fifty a day. Of course, almost all were 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:24.040 found within hours, but across the country there are two thousand, 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:27.559 six hundred long term missing people who have not been 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:32.440 seen for more than three months. And in the morgues 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:37.160 there are the unidentified and the unclaimed, the remains of 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:42.800 seven hundred and fifty sons, daughter's friends who still don't 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:43.320 have a name. 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.120 We do need to keep searching until we find the 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:53.959 answers for them. So yeah, I'm very grateful to everybody 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:57.960 around the world for helping me and sticking with me. 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.000 And you know, after such a long journey, I mean, 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:03.360 the podcast has been going for almost five years now 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.520 and people are still popping up the same names I 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.240 see who have just been here from the beginning and 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.120 even following along on my mum's Facebook page, which I 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:15.679 had started in twenty thirteen, where now you know, got 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:20.040 thousands of people following along on those pages and through 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.400 the podcast. So yeah, I am very grateful and very 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.680 humbled by the whole experience. So thank you everybody. Once again. 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:28.800 Hello, Hi Ger, how are you? 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:30.600 Hello? Laura, loved to see. 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:32.679 You and you too. How are you doing, Brian? 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:33.800 I'm good. Thanks. 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.800 Laura Richards, host of the Crime Analyst podcast and formerly 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.680 of New Scotland. Yard has been with us from the 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:45.040 first year. She works as a criminal behavioral analyst and 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:49.760 has provided expert insights based on years of experience investigating 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:54.240 high profile cases, which now includes Maring Barter's case. 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.560 It must feel surreal, and you know, I cast my 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.080 mind back to the first conversation I have with Alison Sandy, 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:05.440 and there was such limited information to go on other 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:10.760 than Sally knowing that something wasn't right and an accelerated timeline, 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:15.880 and that accelerated timeline was the big red flag really 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:19.680 of finding who was on that accelerated timeline of marry 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.960 and changing everything in the four to six months before 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.200 she left. So I think you've done a tremendous job 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.320 of piecing what information you have together but throwing it 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:33.959 out there for other people to help. And how wonderful 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:38.320 that so many people have shared information or chase down 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:42.400 leads and it's just been such an incredible investigation. So 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:46.880 congratulations to you. And I'm sure it feels surreal coming 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:50.480 up to February the twenty ninth. It's not that not 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:54.560 that far away now, and you know, I feel the pressure. 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.439 I feel nervous about what's going to happen. So Goodness 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:59.760 knows how Sandy feels at the moment. And you and 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.800 Alison and Joanie and the team that have worked just 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:05.560 so diligently and done such an incredible job. 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.200 It's a mixture of you know, excitement, anticipation and also 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.360 and also dread. So first of all, you've kind of 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:15.680 just touched on it. But what are your overall impressions 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.480 of the case of the disappearance of Marion Barda in 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:22.199 terms of other cases you've personally been involved in, or 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:23.559 read about or followed. 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:29.000 Yes, I mean this case is just somewhat overwhelming. Now, 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.760 it's overwhelming in the amount of information that you have. 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.679 But at the start, when I was asked by Alison 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:39.640 Sandy to review the causity of information that you had 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.960 that Marian had disappeared, and Sally was adamant that something 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:46.280 had happened to her. All of the arrows point in 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:50.760 the same direction to mister Rick Blum, and the parallels 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:55.120 for me with Lynette Dawson. You know, it just screams 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.199 out in so many parallels really to what happened to 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:02.120 Lynette and it being a full year cold case and 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:08.520 Hedley Thomas reinvestigating it effectively and joining the dots and 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:10.960 creating an incredible podcast. 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:18.120 Laura was also involved in the Teacher's Pet podcast which 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.000 sheared new light on the nineteen eighty two disappearance of 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:27.560 Sydney woman Lenet Dawson, created by journalist Hedley Thomas. The 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.840 podcast ultimately led to her husband, Chris Dawson, being tried 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:36.560 and convicted in twenty twenty two of her murder, and 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.720 he is today at the age of seventy five, serving 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:42.000 a twenty four year sentence behind bars. 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.480 And with Marion's case, what you've uncovered through the Lady 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:51.040 Vanishes is so many red flags and everything points back 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:55.520 in one direction. There's nothing that has come up that 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.120 has made me think, oh, we might have to rethink this. 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.160 We might have to think, oh there's X or I 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.520 or Z, and we need to pursue that because that 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:07.280 person actually is on Marion's timeline and they're very interesting. 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.200 That hasn't happened. But I have to say, from the 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:14.240 coroner's inquest, just everything that I observed and I saw 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:18.559 with my own eyes and heard with my ears, everything 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.960 still seemed to point in one direction and that cannot 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:25.840 be ignored. And of course at the coroner's inquest, I 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:27.920 got to see him under pressure. I got to see 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:32.320 when he lied, how he lied. He lied continuously, He 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.400 didn't care that he was at the coroner's inquest. He 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:37.760 lied to the police. You know, these are all sorts 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.280 of things that I look to in terms of building 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:44.080 and forming my own opinion about Rick Bloom. 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.640 Yeah, the last day he gave evidence, I took the 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:51.200 opportunity to confront Ric Bloom and let me ask you. 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:54.200 I asked him at one point, do you feel sorry 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:56.600 for Sally with their mum being missing for so long 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:58.480 and the children never having nit big Gwen mother, do 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:00.520 you feel sorry for Can you get what he said? 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:04.640 Well, judging on how he was at the inquest. I 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.680 would imagine that it became about him, that he was 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.240 less interested in the impact on her, and it was 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:13.720 much more about him than me myself and I is 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:14.360 that what happened? 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:18.080 Yes, Laura really does know his subject matter for the 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.800 first time. Here is a snippet where you can hear 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:22.000 exactly what happened. 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.320 Hi the Rick, how are you feeling? Mate? 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:28.720 An excerpt of that confrontation in April twenty twenty two. 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.000 Until now, we've been advised not to replay the fifteen 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:38.800 minute encounter. What do you say to SALIHI just tell 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.280 me something, I'll pass it on to her. Are you 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:43.280 sorry for Sally? Do you feel anything for her at all? 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:45.000 She doesn't seen a month of twenty five years. Do 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:47.000 you feel sorry for Sally just as a human being? 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.880 I mean, okay, you can say I feel sorry for her, 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:53.600 that's not incriminating. 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:59.120 I feel sorry for me, he said, I feel sorry 0:15:59.120 --> 0:15:59.360 for me. 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:04.240 Wow, Yes, I mean that does not surprise me at all, 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.680 because what I witnessed was him trying to go oner 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:11.800 hympathy and hympathy is very specific to men, drawing on 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:15.600 patriarchy and how we react to men, where we're much 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.000 more like so, poor guy, he's had X, Y and 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.280 Z happen, whereas if a woman shows up with the 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.600 same she doesn't get the same sympathy. And Kate Mann 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.720 actually coined that term hympathy, and I tend to see 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:29.200 it with PMS poor me syndrome, which I coined in 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.400 twenty nineteen. But his lack of compassion and care. 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.240 I just want to know what happened to her? Where 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:35.560 is she? 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.080 He is a bit more of my encounter with Bloom 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:39.200 a couple of years ago. 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.680 Is this some sort of game? You think you've gotten 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:43.480 away with something? 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:44.680 Oh? What does that? 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:44.920 Man? 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:49.360 Yes, so it's a game you've won. Bloom pulled faces. 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:53.400 He smiled and raised his eyebrows as I spoke to him. 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:57.520 There's no one else around, mate, man to man. 0:16:59.360 --> 0:16:59.880 When he got to the. 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:04.199 I know you want to all the coroner in the 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:06.879 world and the police tell me news. 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.040 Thing your common mind is that because you're too clever. 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:12.760 What's the idea? 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:17.880 Man, I'm tired of hearing you are. Well, you'll be. 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.480 Unsurprised that I don't really care what you're tired of, 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.040 because I know what you are and you feel I'm targeting. 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:29.159 You didn't you understand how those women feel? Will do 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.000 you understand how the women felt? Remember, Rick Bloom has 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:36.080 never apologized to any of his victims, despite admitting he 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:40.040 lied about his identity and his family in order to 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:46.199 have fraudulent sexual relationships with them. Laura Richards specializes in 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:51.360 coercive control, domestic abuse, and risk assessment, and she has 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:53.520 developed a profile of mister Bloom. 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:58.040 You know, Brian, with all the proliferation of true crime, 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:01.720 and then you know the where we see so many documentaries, 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.919 you often hear people say on documentaries and so forth, 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.280 they talk about victims and they say, oh, her smile 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:08.400 would light up the room. 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:09.000 Right. 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.480 They tend to say positive things about the victim and 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:15.439 airbrush out the negatives. What I witness with Rick Blum 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.480 is he did the exact opposite. At every opportunity, he 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:23.240 said something negative about Marion, that she was sexually promiscuous, 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.240 she was a sex addict. You know, he just said 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.840 she was insatiable. He just said so many derogatory things 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:35.440 about her that showed a callous disregard and I felt 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:41.200 that that was very intentioned to upset Sally and the family. 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.040 The big question of course, is what will the coroner 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:48.359 find in relation to Rick Bloom, if anything, and will 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:53.000 she recommend the Director of Public Prosecutions consider charging him 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.840 with a crime or crimes, and if so, what might 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:57.199 they be. 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.320 So some of the major things for me having written 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.679 reports like this for court and with the reminder that 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:09.880 circumstantial evidence is just as compelling and just as strong 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.280 as direct physical evidence, and many cases are built on 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:17.360 circumstantial evidence alone. I know you know that. But oftentimes 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:20.720 people will think, well, there's no body and there's no 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:24.800 direct physical evidence, therefore there's no case. But that is 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:29.720 absolutely not true. We know with Lynette Dawson, for example, 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:34.160 sadly her body has never been recovered. There will probably 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:39.000 never be an a mission from Chris Dawson given his psychopathology. 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.640 But the judge still found that there were so many 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:46.080 pieces of circumstantial evidence it all pointed in one direction. 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:51.879 And I feel similarly, we may not ever find Marion's body. 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:56.119 I hope we do, and I hope that the trip 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:58.720 that Sally and Joni are going to take to Japan 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.200 and so forth, I hote that they do uncover some 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.840 answers there. But for me that one of the most 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:08.000 compelling aspects to the case of the fact is the 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:11.280 fact that Rick Blum lied when he was asked by 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.679 the police in June twenty twenty one did he know 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:19.639 Marian He said no, and he changed his story the 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:23.480 next day and said that he did know her. Then 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:27.280 he later reveals he didn't on that police interview share 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:30.240 that he had a relationship with her. He later revealed that, 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:34.199 and when he was challenged about that relationship, which was 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:39.960 a sexual relationship, he tried to distance himself from that 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.480 relationship and said it was just sex. So you've got 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:48.600 three changes of story, but that's not all. He also 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:51.440 said in February twenty twenty two that he didn't know 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:56.120 what happened to her, and then later on he says that, oh, 0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:00.199 he read somewhere that Queensland police felt that she had 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.560 joined a cult and that she was strange. And he 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:08.040 starts to sew in all these other narratives about men 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:10.640 that she may or may not have been with, from 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:17.040 motorcyclists to teachers, to Korean men to a pilot, I mean, 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:20.440 all sorts of men that apparently he's only had sex 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:22.760 with her three times, but he knows all these details. 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:27.359 So he's trying to distance himself from her, But later 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:29.679 on in June twenty twenty three, he says at the 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:32.800 inquest that she told him she wanted nothing more to 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:35.800 do with her family, So he changes the story again 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.960 to fit with the facts of the case. If he 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:45.560 were innocent, why would he do that. That's the question 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:48.399 that has to be answered first and foremost that with 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:50.760 somebody who's innocent, they have no need to lie. 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:58.400 Another key piece of circumstantial evidence is the trips mister 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.600 Bloom and Mary and talk in nineteen ninety seven when 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:05.040 she disappeared, both heading to Europe at the same time. 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:09.560 Mister Bloom confirming he stayed at the Hotel Nico in Narrita, 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:13.959 Japan in transit, and Marian writing to Sally using paper 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:17.080 with the letterhead Hotel Nico Narita. 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:20.520 Yes, and that paper is very significant because we know 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:24.160 he was there. We know they on the timeline, which 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:27.760 again is very significant. They both leave Australia within the 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.400 same window of time, a few days, within a few 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:34.359 days of each other. He goes to Japan, she he 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:39.280 stays at that particular hotel, Hotel Nico in Narita. Diane 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:43.160 talks to that trip and him flying to Japan at 0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:46.920 that time at the inquest, and we know that Marion 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:51.120 wrote to Sally on that letterhead Hotel Nico in Narrita, 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:55.399 the letter head when she's in England. Why would she 0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:59.560 choose that letter head? I mean a how would she 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:02.359 get hold? And I suspect she did spend time in 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:04.959 Japan because she talked about spending time in the East 0:23:05.000 --> 0:23:08.680 and having too much luggage. Whereas if you're in transit 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:12.320 and her luggage had just gone through, maybe she's not 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:14.639 in a direct flight, but she wouldn't be picking up 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:17.280 her luggage and having to do battle carrying it all, 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:19.960 et cetera. But she talks about spending time in the East. 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:23.199 There was Jenny mentioned that she had written down on 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:26.560 some of her passport information that she was going to Japan, 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:30.199 and then she writes to Sally on that letterhead. And 0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:34.760 I felt on reflection that that letterhead was meaningful. It 0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:38.600 doesn't just place them together, it's meaningful to Marian. So 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:42.000 does that mean that they got married, for example, in Japan? 0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:44.600 And I don't know the answer to that, but I 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:47.720 did notice when I was open sourcing that hotel they 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:52.119 do do and they did do weddings, So is it possible. 0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:55.440 You know, why would she write to Sally on that letterhead. 0:23:55.480 --> 0:24:00.000 When you're abroad, you sometimes do things that connect you 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:02.639 to the people that you'd love. And I feel on 0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:06.720 reflection that that was some kind of message that she felt. 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:09.520 She couldn't say what she had done, but she wanted 0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:13.719 there to be a connection through using that letterhead, and 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:17.400 it would not surprise me if they had married there, 0:24:17.480 --> 0:24:21.760 and that potentially there was some carrot dangled about, you know, 0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:25.680 let's go abroad, let's get married. You can buy a school, 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:28.199 or we're buy a school, and this was sort of 0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:31.359 the carrot that was being dangled, and in Marion's mind 0:24:31.400 --> 0:24:35.320 that all sounded fantastic and very romantic, and. 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:40.680 She would potentially have been missus fernand Ramagil at that time. 0:24:41.400 --> 0:24:45.040 Yes, the id to register a marriage in that night. 0:24:45.760 --> 0:24:49.199 Yes, it's possible, and I think that that has to 0:24:49.240 --> 0:24:56.080 be really pursued. If they can be tied together, more 0:24:56.160 --> 0:25:00.040 so from another coroborating, third party source, I think that 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:03.480 will be very compelling. At the moment, it's still compelling 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:05.639