1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: You want your eleven year old to be responsible. You 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: want to give them freedom, but you want to be 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: able to trust them. And sometimes sometimes they don't do 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: the things that you expect them to do so that 5 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: you can feel like they can be responsible and trustworthy, 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden things get tricky. Hello and 7 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. Today on the pod, 8 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: one of your Tricky Questions a listener question sent through 9 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: from a mum of an eleven year old who really 10 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: really wants her son to be independent, but he's just 11 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: not doing the right thing. How do you confront him? 12 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: How do you have a meaningful conversation? How do you 13 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: get buy in and endorsement of rules that designed just 14 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: to keep him safe. That's what we answer today with 15 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: your tricky questions on the Happy Families podcast. Stay with us. Hello, 16 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Families podcast, Real parenting solutions every 17 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: single day. This is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast where 18 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: Justin and Kylie call some with the parents of six 19 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,119 Speaker 1: kids and we've got a tricky question to answer today. 20 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: If you have tricky questions, we love hearing from you. 21 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: You can contact us via podcasts at Happy families dot 22 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: com dot au. Just send us your voice note with 23 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: his tricky question, or alternatively, jump online to happy Families 24 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,119 Speaker 1: dot com dot au and scroll down to your see 25 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: the button that says record start talking and tell us 26 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: what's on your mind. Just like Justine, Hi. 27 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 2: I've got an eleven year old boy and I'm trying 28 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 2: to give him more opportunities to be independent. Part of 29 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 2: that is allowing him to go up to our local 30 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 2: park to kick a ball around with a mate, and 31 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 2: we have agreed boundaries about that that he has to 32 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 2: be back at a certain time and he needs to 33 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 2: let me know if he's going to be somewhere different 34 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 2: that's not the park. I've found recently that he hasn't 35 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: been telling me the truth about where he's been going. 36 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: He's been venturing up to the shops and hasn't told 37 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 2: me about it, and he's also started breaking the curfew 38 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 2: and coming home later. I'm not sure how to talk 39 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 2: to him about this. I want to keep up a 40 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: positive connection. I want to talk to you about his 41 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 2: reasons for not telling me the whole truth, but I 42 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 2: also want to make sure that he's learning from his decisions, 43 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 2: his bad choices, and that he can learn from the mistake. 44 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: So, Kylie, we've dealt with this so many times, trying 45 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: to give the kids responsibility. You give them an inch 46 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: and what a grandma always say, they'll take a mile, 47 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: which never made sense to me because I grow up 48 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty six and I only know I centimeters 49 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: and killometers. But three things that jump out at me 50 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,679 Speaker 1: straight away before we get into the nitty gritty of 51 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: this tricky question. Number One, this is a joint goal. 52 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: He wants independence and you want independence. This is a 53 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: good thing. This is a good thing. You're both working 54 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: towards the same thing. It's just that it's got to 55 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:45,679 Speaker 1: be in a way that helps you, as a parent 56 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: that feel safe and secure. We do need to rethink 57 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: our assumption sometimes the kids are probably going to be okay. 58 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: They're probably going to be okay, but. 59 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: You just don't know. 60 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: So I get it. I've got a lot of empathy 61 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: for of a teenager, sorry, not even a teenage boy, 62 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: an eleven year old boy who wants to hang out 63 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: at the shops, because all sorts of stuff happens there. Secondly, 64 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: if you want your kids to be responsible, you need 65 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: to give them responsibility. You can't take responsibility away and 66 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: expect them to be responsible. They've got to have responsibility. 67 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: I think you can see where I'm going to go 68 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: with this response to this tricky question. And third, just 69 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: to complicate matters, rules matter, but without a relationship, rules 70 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: lead to rebellion. So Justine's hit everything that matters. We 71 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: want him to be responsible and therefore have the opportunity 72 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: to enjoy responsibility. We want him to have respect for 73 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: the rules, but we've also got to have a relationship. 74 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: The connection matters, and we've got this same goal here, 75 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: But how do we build trusts? All right, Kylie, I 76 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: know that technically I'm the one that's quite unquote, the expert, 77 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: but as we had a quick chat about this conversation, 78 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: you had some big and important ideas. 79 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 3: Justine suggested that the most important thing to her out 80 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 3: of all of this is that she maintains a positive 81 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 3: relationship with her son. That's really important to the ongoing 82 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 3: relationship that they that they share. And I think there's 83 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 3: a misconception that if we have to sit down with 84 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 3: our children have tricky conversations, that we're going to sever 85 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 3: or damage the positive connections that we have. But it 86 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 3: really comes down to our ability as adults to be 87 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 3: emotionally regulated in that moment as we sit with our 88 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 3: children and have these tricky conversations. 89 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: Okay, legitimate question. How many tricky conversations do you think 90 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: we have with our children on a weekly basis, like 91 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: almost every day at least a couple Yeah, yes, with 92 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: six kids, there's just always friction, There's always something going on, 93 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: there's stuff that needs has six daughters especially, So how 94 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: do we have the tricky questions? We follow the same 95 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: structure every time. We literally don't change the structure when 96 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: we're doing it right. The three e's of effective discipline, explore, explain, empower, 97 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: But that doesn't just mean that you say the same 98 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: thing every time like a robot. An exploration conversation, by 99 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: its very nature, is going to be different every single 100 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: time you have the chat, because people's motivations, people's reasons 101 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: start to shift. But really, at the core of it, 102 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: this is a conversation about building trust, and you build 103 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: trust best by listening, by understanding one another. And I 104 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: think that there's an opportunity for Justine to get to 105 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: know her eleven year old son a little bit more. 106 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 3: So in Justine's case, we want to try and understand 107 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 3: why it is that her son has decided that in 108 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 3: spite of the fact that mum is doing everything she 109 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 3: can to show him that she wants to give him 110 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 3: some independence. 111 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, go outside, have fun, kick a ball at the post, 112 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: and she's. 113 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 3: Given him the leeway in the acknowledgment. You may not 114 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 3: stay at the park, but if you are going to 115 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 3: go somewhere else, just let me know. So the exploration 116 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 3: here is trying to understand why he felt that he 117 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 3: couldn't ask her, knowing that permission was already granted under 118 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 3: those circumstances. 119 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: Yep, yep. So is it that he elected not to 120 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: or is it just that in the moment with the 121 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: boys all having fun and we jumped on the bikes, 122 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: all the skateboards of the scooters and whizzed down to 123 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: the shops because that's what we did. It's also the 124 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: coming home on time thing. But again, like when you're 125 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: eleven years old, are you really that bothered about the time? 126 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: So I think there's a developmental element here. But those questions, 127 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: those conversations, it's so easy to jump to a conclusion, 128 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: isn't and say they're doing this because they're disregarding the rules, 129 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: they're abrogating their responsibility. There's something insidious going on, Like 130 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: it's really easy to look at the kids and say, 131 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: I think you're being rebellious. I think that you're being 132 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: intentionally you're intentionally disregarding the things that we've asked, and 133 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: sometimes I think more often than not, there's no malice. 134 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: It's just mindlessness. 135 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you kind of have a track record right 136 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 3: regardless of whether or not your child has left the 137 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 3: home before. Are they a child who responds instantly to recommend, 138 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 3: you know, to requests, or are they a child that 139 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 3: just kind of does things in their own time? Do 140 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 3: they get caught up in things and don't recognize that 141 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 3: they've been there for an extra fifteen minutes before you've 142 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: had to remind them for the third time. Those conversations 143 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 3: are really important because they allow your child to recognize 144 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 3: that you are giving them the benefit of the doubt. 145 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 3: You're not jumping to the conclusion like you suggested that 146 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:14,119 Speaker 3: they're doing something wrong. 147 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: Okay, So exploring where he's coming from, what's going on 148 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: for you, what's important to you? What are you working towards, 149 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: What is it that you really want to have here. 150 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: Understanding those things are going to be your first step. 151 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: After the break, we're going to talk about the explain 152 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: and empower elements of those three ease, but especially how 153 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: we can get to a point where your son is 154 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: going to willingly choose to step into, comply with, and 155 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,559 Speaker 1: feel committed to the rules that you develop together. That's 156 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: the whole box and dice, and it's coming up after 157 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: the break. We're back. It's another tricky question on The 158 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: Happy Family's podcast. If you're enjoying the podcast and it's 159 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: making difference in your family, please share the pod tell 160 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: others about it, whether you click the links or just 161 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: open your mouth and let people know what helps other 162 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: people find out about the podcast and make their families happier. Okay, Kylie, 163 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: let's talk about explaining for a sec. Normally, when we 164 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: start to explain things to our kids, they fall asleep. Yeah. 165 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 3: I think that that's why it's really important that you 166 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 3: actually take a different tact when it comes to explaining, 167 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 3: because it's actually not about you explaining. As soon as 168 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 3: you start talking, like you said, they shut down. So 169 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 3: for me, it would be asking them, could they take 170 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 3: your perspective for a moment, And how do you think 171 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 3: I'm feeling, as your mum, when I've just suggested to 172 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 3: you that if you want to go somewhere else, just 173 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 3: let me know, and then you not only don't tell me, 174 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 3: I find out later after the fact and you're home late, 175 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 3: how am I feeling? 176 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: So? 177 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: Research shows that tween and teen boys have a drop 178 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: in empathy, like it's really hard for them, But that 179 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that it's eliminated from their lives. It just 180 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: means that biologically there's this poor away from empathy and 181 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: it pulled towards ego centrism and it's all about my 182 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 1: perspective and that's all that matters. These kinds of conversations 183 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: are really good developmentally for your son because they're dragging 184 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: him sometimes kicking and screaming, back towards an empathy approach 185 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: to the world. If we believe that healthy males help 186 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 1: the people around them feel safer and stronger, one thing 187 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: that your son can do is recognize that when he 188 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 1: is not communicating with you about his plans, when he's 189 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: going behind your back or doing things that aren't consistent 190 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: with the things that you've agreed to, that you don't 191 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: feel safe. Because you're worried about his safety, you actually 192 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: feel disempowered and weakened, and that's not a nice place 193 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: to be. And Kylie, the question that you're asking is 194 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: it really cuts to the very core of what this 195 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: is about. Hey, what does it do to me? What 196 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: does it do to your dad? What does it do 197 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: to us as a family when we can't find you 198 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: at the park or when you don't come home on time? 199 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: Just imagine what it's like for us for a sec 200 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: that's perspective taking, that's empathy. There's another question to ask 201 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: as well. And bear in mind this is the explained phase, right, 202 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: So explain is very much about saying here's what you 203 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: need to know. But Kylie, as you've rightly said, the 204 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: kids get bored and so it's much better to get 205 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: them to explain to you what your rules are. If 206 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: you want to build trust and have this two way relationship. 207 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,439 Speaker 1: I think there's value in saying, why do you think 208 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: we've asked you to do X or y? Why do 209 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: you think that we only want you to be at 210 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: the park. Why do you think we want you to 211 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 1: communicate with us? What makes us say you've got to 212 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: be home by such and such a time. As he 213 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: is able to explain to you why you have set 214 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: those boundaries ideally together, then he's much more likely to 215 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: step in to endorse them. 216 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 3: Right. 217 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: If I can explain why the boundaries exist, then I 218 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: can understand them, and I can probably go ahead with 219 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: them and be committed to them. So exploring is getting 220 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: his perspective. Explaining is ideally getting him to explain your perspective. 221 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 3: And sometimes he might not be able to do that 222 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 3: because he's in that phase where he doesn't really care 223 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 3: what you think. 224 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: You're asking me a question he goes. 225 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 3: So you might need to tap into somebody that he 226 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 3: does care about. Your best mate, you said you were 227 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 3: going to meet him at such and such a time 228 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 3: and he doesn't show up and he's been gone for 229 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 3: half an hour. How do you feel? How does that 230 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 3: make you feel? I think just finding a relationship that 231 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 3: they really can tap into and find that level of 232 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 3: empathy that's needed to understand the dynamics of the relationship 233 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 3: that you share together is really important because that's where 234 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 3: you get the buy in. 235 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, what we're going for is a level of identification 236 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: with the value. The value is honesty or the value 237 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: is punctuality, or the value is integrity. So can we 238 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: get him away from this externalized I'm only doing what 239 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: I said because otherwise I'll get in trouble. 240 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 3: Two Or I don't know what the big deal is. 241 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what the big deal is. So 242 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: we're getting him to the point where he goes, yeah, okay, 243 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 1: I get it. It matters because of these reasons. He 244 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily love it. It's not it's not lighting him up. 245 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: He's not saying, oh my goodness, I'm a man of integrity. 246 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: So I've got to be home at five pm. That's 247 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: not what this is about. This is about him going 248 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 1: I value my relationship with my parents. I respect myself 249 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: more when I do what I say I was going 250 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: to do, and people respect me for that as well. 251 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: So therefore I'm going to do that. That's what we're 252 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: going for, and then we'll get to empower. So this 253 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: is the thirty This is a. 254 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:02,719 Speaker 3: Really fun part of the conversation, especially if your kids 255 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 3: have got buy in. 256 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: Right, because you actually creates the buy in. 257 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 3: You get to collaborate with them. One of the questions 258 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 3: you might ask, is I know that we say that 259 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 3: we want your home at five o'clock is does five 260 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 3: o'clock feel like a fair time for you? 261 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: Yeah? 262 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, Based on what his other friends are doing, they 263 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 3: might not have to be home. 264 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: Tool see make the case for six pm. 265 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 3: So let's talk about that. How can I feel good 266 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 3: about a six o'clock return and how can you honor 267 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 3: that worth saying? 268 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: If you're not going to feel good about the six 269 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: o'clock return, your job is to work with your son 270 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: so that the ultimate goal of empowering your child is 271 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: not to say you can do whatever you want. It's 272 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: not carte blanche, it's not total freedom independence. The need 273 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: that we're trying to support here is the autonomy need. 274 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: And a lot of people think that autonomy means I 275 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 1: get to do whatever I choose. That's not it. Autonomy 276 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: is about endorsing endorsing. So we're trying to get to 277 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: a point where we can come up with the rule 278 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: that he can yet behind, that he can endorse. In 279 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: the same way that we don't actually have choice in 280 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: terms of what side of the road we drive on. 281 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,839 Speaker 1: The government has mandated that we drive on a particular 282 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: side of the road. But because we get it, it 283 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: makes sense we buy the rationale. We endorse that, and therefore, 284 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: even though we're being completely controlled, we still drive on 285 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: the correct side of the road. We know that it's safe, 286 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: we know that we won't be fined. It just makes sense. 287 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: So that's what we're going for here. You're going to 288 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: stay in touch. Do you endorse the idea of that? Why? Okay? 289 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: Good builds trust. We can rely on each other. Here, 290 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: we're going to have your home at a certain time. 291 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: Why yeah? Cool? Okay? Does that make sense? Can you 292 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: endorse that as a behavior as a way of moving forward? Yep, okay, cool, 293 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: We can go ahead there. 294 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 3: So I've been working a lot at the gym since 295 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 3: the beginning of the year. 296 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: We're going to have a long conversation about this on Thursday. 297 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: I can't wait. 298 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 3: And as we're talking, the analogies coming to me. When 299 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 3: I started at the gym, I was lifting a five 300 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 3: kilo weight and I don't just go from five kilos 301 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 3: to twenty kilos overnight, right, It doesn't work like that. 302 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 3: I have to slowly incrementally add weight to my five 303 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 3: kilos till I can get to the twenty kilos. And 304 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 3: so with our kids, just using the example, we've got 305 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 3: from five o'clock to six o'clock. To me, that's like, 306 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 3: that's a huge jump. I'm not ready to make that jump. 307 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 3: But I can talk to him about whether or not 308 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 3: we go to five point thirty. 309 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: And if he gains straight that you can be response 310 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: to right, then we can talk about extent. 311 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 3: We're going to add more weight, We're going to add 312 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 3: more trust to the relationship. The other part of this 313 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 3: conversation is he wants to go to the shops, which 314 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 3: seems like a logical place that he and his friends 315 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 3: might end up at at the end of having a 316 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 3: play at the park. They might want to go get 317 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 3: a drink or an ice cream or or something like that. 318 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 3: So is it fair that he has to tell you 319 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 3: every time he leaves the park that he's going to 320 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 3: go down to the shops to get a tree? 321 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: Or could you have an agreed upon two or three 322 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: or four different places where he could be at ABC 323 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: or D and so long as he's at those four places, 324 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: that's all that matters. How much do you really have 325 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: to monitor your eleven soon to be twelve year old son. 326 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, because independence is about being able to do things 327 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 3: on your own. 328 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: Okay, So that's our answer for you, Justine, We really 329 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: hope that it's helpful. The three ease of effective discipline. 330 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: I've written blogs about them will LinkedIn the show notes. 331 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: I've also written about them in my book, and there's 332 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: a whole lot of content out there to help you 333 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: to find ways to navigate this with your sign. But 334 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: we're pretty confident this will do the This will be 335 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: magic for you. 336 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 3: Don't shy away from having a hard conversation. That's actually 337 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 3: how good communication happens. 338 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: Another tricky question hopefully answered well and helpfully. Thanks for 339 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: the voice. Note Justine podcasts at happy families dot com 340 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: dot au. If you would like to hit us with 341 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: a tricky question, or go to happy families dot com 342 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: dot you, scroll down to where the record button is 343 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: and start talking. The Happy Families podcast is produced by 344 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Mimhammonds provides additional support and 345 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: for more info to make your family happier, visit happy 346 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: families dot com dot au.