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Speaker 1: This is the Parenting in Perspective podcast, a Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 1: My name's doctor Justin Coulson. And you've probably noticed this

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Speaker 1: is a slightly different intro to what we normally do

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Speaker 1: on the podcast. Well, we're doing things a little differently

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Speaker 1: for the next couple of months. I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: conducting a whole range of interviews and we'll have an

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Speaker 1: interview series that we're calling Parenting in Perspective.

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Speaker 2: And the reason I'm doing this is well, number one, to.

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Speaker 1: Mix it up, but number two, I think that there's

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Speaker 1: so many important voices, so many powerful ideas that I

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Speaker 1: want to share with you to make your family happier.

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Speaker 1: And I can't think of a better way to do

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Speaker 1: that than in depth conversations in podcast form that you

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Speaker 1: can listen to at your convenience, and really, will number

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Speaker 1: one be entertained, but number two grow and learn from

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Speaker 1: the conversations that I'm having. So for the next couple

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Speaker 1: of months, i haven't decided how long this season will be,

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Speaker 1: but I'm guessing it's going to.

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Speaker 2: Be about a dozen interviews, going to.

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Speaker 1: Be speaking to a guest, and I've got some amazing

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Speaker 1: guests lined up. I just can't wait for you to

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Speaker 1: hear some of the people that I'm going to be discussing.

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Speaker 2: Big things in parenting with.

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Speaker 1: You'll have the opportunity to learn, have a lot of fun,

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Speaker 1: and get into the detail of these people's lives or,

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Speaker 1: in the case of researchers, what they've been studying, and

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Speaker 1: how we can implement that in our lives and in

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Speaker 1: our families to make family life better and to grow better, stronger,

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Speaker 1: more resilient children.

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Speaker 3: Freedom and did teach me something quite early on, which

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Speaker 3: was to let go of that need to feel like

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Speaker 3: I should be in full control the whole time. But

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Speaker 3: an early mistake was diving with lots of fear, feeling

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Speaker 3: that as long as I puffed up my chest and

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Speaker 3: asserted my control and dominance in each dive that I

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Speaker 3: would get deeper than any other athlete. And I think

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Speaker 3: there is some interesting analogies when I think of my

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Speaker 3: own experience in parenting as well, I'm trying to exert

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Speaker 3: control or convince my kids that they should do it

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Speaker 3: my way. I need to find that actually, if I

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Speaker 3: took a step backwards and looked at it more whole

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Speaker 3: less and turned the volume down on my ego, that

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Speaker 3: it actually might find a farmer effective way of getting

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Speaker 3: outcomes with my kids that I truly need.

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Speaker 1: Aunt Williams started his career as a sports psychologist, working

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Speaker 1: with elite athletes involved in dangerous sports. Challenging himself to

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Speaker 1: take up an extreme sport like those he was counseling,

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Speaker 1: he discovered the sport of free diving. Since that discovery,

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Speaker 1: he worked his way into the world top ten rankings

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Speaker 1: of the sport. He set a personal best diving to

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Speaker 1: a depth of one hundred meters and set a world

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Speaker 1: record for the deepest dive under ice in the open ocean,

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Speaker 1: and can hold his breath for a staggering eight minutes.

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Speaker 1: At is the founder of Modus Leadership Developments, an organization

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Speaker 1: that specializes in corporate development around sales effectiveness. He lives

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Speaker 1: with his family on the Victorian surf coast. So Ant,

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Speaker 1: tell me more about your work in your family.

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Speaker 2: Who is Aunt Williams.

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Speaker 3: So Ant Williams is a dad. I have two beautiful

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Speaker 3: young kids. So I have Luke, who is fourteen years old,

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Speaker 3: loves his gaming, loves his animals and loves his his

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Speaker 3: jiu jitsu, and I always have Chloe. Chloe is eleven

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Speaker 3: years old and she's more into arts, crafts. She loves,

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Speaker 3: you know, dance and hip hop and yeah, she's just

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Speaker 3: she's a little firecracker. And so we've got, you know,

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Speaker 3: the two kids, my wife Marin, and we've got one

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Speaker 3: little dog, Cookie and we hang out down here on

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Speaker 3: the sef coast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sounds beautiful. Now.

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Speaker 1: Your story fascinating me from the very first moment that

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Speaker 1: I heard it. You and I were speaking at a

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Speaker 1: major conference for the Commonwealth Bank, I think it was

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Speaker 1: maybe back in about twenty seventeen, twenty sixteen, somewhere around there,

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Speaker 1: and you told a story about the part time adventuring

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Speaker 1: that you do as a free diver. Was I was

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Speaker 1: in inspired by the idea of free diving when I

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Speaker 1: was a teenager. I saw a movie called The Big

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Speaker 1: Blue and then when I met you had brought all

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Speaker 1: of that back to me and I actually started to

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Speaker 1: do some free diving for a little while. But what

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Speaker 1: exactly is free diving? Now this is going to relate

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Speaker 1: to parenting soon for people who are thinking why is

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Speaker 1: he talking about this? It will, But can you just

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Speaker 1: tell us what free diving is and how you actually

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Speaker 1: got into it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Sure, So free diving is a sport where you

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Speaker 3: take a boat out into very deep water, you run

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Speaker 3: ropes down off the side of that boat, and then

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Speaker 3: everyone who's competing has to nominate a depth, the depth

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Speaker 3: that they can believe that they can swim down to

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Speaker 3: to retrieve the tag on one single breath of the air,

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Speaker 3: and then they must make it all the way back

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Speaker 3: to the surface without blacking out.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like so much fun, and you know, and let's

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Speaker 1: just dive down deep and try not to pass out underwater.

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Speaker 2: That makes perfect sense.

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Speaker 3: Oh, look it is. You know. It is a scary sport.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a sport that really combined a couple

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Speaker 3: of very primal fears. You know, you've got the sphere

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Speaker 3: of suffocation, and you've also got this other fear, if

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Speaker 3: you know, I think all of us have it. You're

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Speaker 3: born with this fear of being out in very deep

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Speaker 3: water where if you start sinking in that water, it

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Speaker 3: might start off beautiful, open blue and turquoise, but then

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Speaker 3: quite quickly it gets a dark blue, and then you

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Speaker 3: know you can pitch black darkness and know that you

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Speaker 3: still have another minute of free force sinking all alone

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Speaker 3: in the open ocean and pitch back darkness. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's quite an intimidating sport.

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Speaker 2: How did you get into it?

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Speaker 3: Okay, well, because he asks me, why did you get

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Speaker 3: into it? But yes, how did I get into it? Well?

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Speaker 3: I studied to become a psychologist when I was at university,

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Speaker 3: and in particular, what I was most fascinated by were

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Speaker 3: athletes and how athletes could achieve a state of peak

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Speaker 3: performance and perform consistently at the highest of their ability.

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Speaker 3: Because I had never been an athlete. I always thought

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Speaker 3: of myself as somewhat athletic, but I've never succeeded in sport.

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Speaker 3: So I'm studying athlete and I get introduced to this

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Speaker 3: idea that you can help athletes perform better simply by

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Speaker 3: helping them with their mindset and helping them become more

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Speaker 3: mentally tough. And so I'm fascinated by this. I'm at

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Speaker 3: university thinking wow, this is this is the coolest thing ever.

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Speaker 3: And you know, officially I wanted to see if it works,

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Speaker 3: and you know, all this research that I looked into,

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Speaker 3: and as part of the studies, I quickly realized that boy,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot in this. So I thought, great, this

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Speaker 3: is this is it. After all these years, I finally

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Speaker 3: figured out what I want to do with my life

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Speaker 3: as my career, and so I went at boots and

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Speaker 3: and became a sports psychologist. So that man six years

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Speaker 3: at university, and you know, it came out did case

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Speaker 3: work a couple of years later. I'm a registered psych

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Speaker 3: It took me eight years. And then after just a

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Speaker 3: couple of years of consulting out to athletes, I just

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Speaker 3: realized that I was a total fraud. I was a

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Speaker 3: fraud because the athletes that I was working with were

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Speaker 3: looking at me for real, genuine, insightful guidance on how

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Speaker 3: to perform at their absolute best. Yet everything I was

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Speaker 3: teaching them had come out of a textbook. You know,

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Speaker 3: I'd never succeeded at sport, and most of my athletes

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Speaker 3: were doing dangerous sports like motor GP racing motorbikes, or

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Speaker 3: rally or base jumping or big wave toe and surfing

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Speaker 3: or you know, mutai fighting. I'd never done these things.

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Speaker 3: I'd never succeeded in competition, and so I just, you know,

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Speaker 3: I really sat myself down one day and when hey,

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Speaker 3: if you're going to have any answer credibility as a

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Speaker 3: sports psychologist, then go and try something, and because your

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Speaker 3: athletes are doing dangerous stuff, maybe go and learn a

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Speaker 3: dangerous sport and apply what I'm teaching others and to

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Speaker 3: see if I can actually have some degree of success

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Speaker 3: in a sport. And that was it.

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Speaker 2: Certainly I want to get onto the parenting in just

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Speaker 2: a minute.

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Speaker 1: But one of the things that actually seems to apply

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Speaker 1: there immediately is you said that you were sitting in

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Speaker 1: front of these people and feeling like you had no credibility.

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Speaker 1: And I think that this may have some kind of

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Speaker 1: a reverse parallel to parenting because the people that you

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Speaker 1: were sitting in front of they had achieved all of

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Speaker 1: this success. They were doing things that humans typically don't do,

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Speaker 1: so they were extraordinary people.

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Speaker 2: They were incredible.

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Speaker 1: Athletes, and you felt like you didn't have any credibility.

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Speaker 1: But I wonder sometimes if parents feel the same way.

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Speaker 1: We're sitting in front of our children. It's been so

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Speaker 1: long since we were a child. It's always challenging as

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Speaker 1: a parent. Do you do you think that there's any

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Speaker 1: parallels there that sense of I haven't got this at all.

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Speaker 1: And what would you suggest to parents when they're feeling

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Speaker 1: like if I can use a metaphor out of their depth.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, like I was quite fascinated by this around.

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Speaker 3: Why was such a deal for me because I think

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Speaker 3: it's this type of imposter's syndrome where you feel that

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Speaker 3: you're in a position of authority or responsibility helping support others,

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Speaker 3: in my case, in athletes in my sport. Yet like

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Speaker 3: a true impost I think that when you first have

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Speaker 3: your you know, a child, then there's this belief that

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Speaker 3: you will automatically be a great parent because you're a

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Speaker 3: wonderful person, and you buy into this right and then

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Speaker 3: you realize that it's actually really hard and that you're

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Speaker 3: ell equipped, and then you sort of I don't know,

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Speaker 3: I think you do one of two things. There are

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Speaker 3: those amongst us who seem to adapt very quickly and

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Speaker 3: try to figure it out and invest a lot of energy,

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Speaker 3: and then there are those of us who are more

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Speaker 3: stubborn and just go, this is just who I am.

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Speaker 3: Let's be more authentic to myself and you know, you're

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Speaker 3: just going to get what you receive from me, and

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Speaker 3: I'm sure if it's anything like what I received, then

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Speaker 3: you'll be fine. And we don't adapt. We just kind

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Speaker 3: of pursue and push forward.

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Speaker 1: Let's reverse back to your free diving for a moment,

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Speaker 1: because you've been very modest and humble about what you've

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Speaker 1: actually accomplished in free diving. What I'd love for you

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Speaker 1: to do is maybe outline. Well now I'll say it,

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Speaker 1: because I know you and I know that you don't

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Speaker 1: want to give yourself a big head and all that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: But at one point you were one.

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Speaker 1: Of the deepest, you held a record or had done

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Speaker 1: one of the deepest free dives in the world in

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Speaker 1: regular water.

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Speaker 2: You went down to one hundred meters.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the deepest they've ever dived under the water in

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Speaker 3: the ocean is one hundred meters. At the time, that

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Speaker 3: put me in world number eight. The highest I've ever

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Speaker 3: ranked is world number five for deep diving.

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Speaker 1: So eighth in the world or fifth in the world

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Speaker 1: diving down to one hundred meters? What does that do

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Speaker 1: to your body when you dive into those depths? Could

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Speaker 1: you describe, maybe in a couple of minutes, what doing

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Speaker 1: that actual dive was about. You know, you're laying on

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Speaker 1: top of the wall, you take a breath, and then

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Speaker 1: what happens and what's going on inside your head and

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Speaker 1: inside your your lungs, and your brain and your body

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Speaker 1: as this is all happening.

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Speaker 3: Well, most of these events take place in pretty exotic locations.

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Speaker 3: Where did the one hundred meters was it? A competition

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Speaker 3: called Vertical Blue in the Bahamas at a very remote

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Speaker 3: island called Long Island. And you literally go down onto

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Speaker 3: the sand on this very remote beach and start swimming

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Speaker 3: out into the water and within just a few strokes

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Speaker 3: of your arms, the water underneath you is over two

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Speaker 3: hundred meters deep. And so when I swim out to

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Speaker 3: this platform for the competition, there would have been thirty

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Speaker 3: people huddled around the platform. With that you have to

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Speaker 3: dive in and essentially you go out, you do a

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Speaker 3: couple of warm up dives, and then the officials will

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Speaker 3: call you over to where they have a rope set

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Speaker 3: up with the depth that you've nominated the day before.

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Speaker 3: You go into that area, you clip into a you

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Speaker 3: have like a safety land that you clip onto that

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Speaker 3: main line that runs freely, and then you just lie

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Speaker 3: there on your back, surrounded by all these people and

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Speaker 3: officials and someone yelling out the time, which is a

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Speaker 3: countdown timer. They start at two minutes and they count

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Speaker 3: you down to zero. On zero, you have to take

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Speaker 3: your final breath, roll over, and then start diving down

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Speaker 3: to your nominated depth. So one zero you pack in

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Speaker 3: a huge amount of year, like you overinflate your lungs,

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Speaker 3: his techniques willing to do that. And then when you

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Speaker 3: roll over and you begin swimming, and you've got to

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Speaker 3: swim really hard to overcome all the buoyancy, all this

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Speaker 3: here that you've got in your lungs. But it's lovely,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's it's kind of a fun part of

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Speaker 3: the dive because it's beautiful, you know, warm water, and

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Speaker 3: you can see you know, forty or fifty meters and

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Speaker 3: the visibility. But then as you go down and you

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Speaker 3: get to about twenty meters, it's starting to get pretty dark.

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Speaker 3: In fact, when I did a one hundred meter dive,

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Speaker 3: by the time I got to twenty meters it was

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Speaker 3: pitch black. So then you start to feel a little

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Speaker 3: bit more alone. And at twenty meters you can stop

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Speaker 3: kicking because the weight of the water above you is

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Speaker 3: now so heavy that it actually just pushes you down.

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Speaker 3: So you stop kicking, You bring your arms down by

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Speaker 3: your sides, and you just kind of just really start

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Speaker 3: to relax and just conceive your energy and go for

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Speaker 3: the ride.

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Speaker 1: Can I just pause you there for a secon You say,

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Speaker 1: you close your eyes and relax and go for the ride.

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Speaker 1: But what you're actually saying is you're about to sink

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Speaker 1: like a stone from twenty meters to one hundred meters

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Speaker 1: and you're not going to fight it. You're not going

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Speaker 1: to kick, You're just going to let the pressure of

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Speaker 1: the water push you one hundred meters down into the ocean.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, effectively, that's exactly right. So from twenty meters you

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Speaker 3: know that you've got.

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Speaker 2: To relac and you're going to relax while it happens.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's that's the hardest thing about the sport. So

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Speaker 3: you've now got a minute and a half of free

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Speaker 3: fall where it's yeah, it's I pitched back darkness, you're

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Speaker 3: all alone, and the pressure as you go down every

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Speaker 3: ten meters the pressure gets so significantly, you know, greater

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Speaker 3: on your body. That weird stuff happens and you start

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Speaker 3: to feel different sensations, but most of them are just

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Speaker 3: degrees of discomfort that you go through.

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Speaker 1: Can you describe can you describe physiologically what's happening? So, like,

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Speaker 1: what's happened to your lungs and to your blood vessels

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Speaker 1: when you're at fifty meters or eighty meters or something

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, fifty meters is quite a significant depth because

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Speaker 3: once you're at fifty meters, you're not breathing any compressed air,

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Speaker 3: which means that all you've got is the year that's

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Speaker 3: in your life, and that's usually so compressed by fifty

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Speaker 3: meters that your lungs are literally about the size of

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Speaker 3: a grapefruit. So you're at what's called residual volume, which

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Speaker 3: means that your lungs can't collapse any further. So physiologically,

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Speaker 3: what happens is you get you get a shift of

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Speaker 3: blood and plasma around your lungs that protect your chest

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Speaker 3: cavity like it. We call it a mammalian divory flex,

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Speaker 3: so that you can carry on going deeper without any

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Speaker 3: damage to your chest. But it's very uncomfortable, very unpleasant

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Speaker 3: to go through, and you know that you're only halfway

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Speaker 3: and you still got a lot of sinking to do

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Speaker 3: in a lot more discomfort to come.

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Speaker 1: When you say it's very uncomfortable, I'm imagining my lungs

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Speaker 1: being compressed to the size of grapefruit, and I can't

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Speaker 1: help but think that I would expel air because of

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Speaker 1: the pain. I mean, is it actual pain or is

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Speaker 1: it just pressure and you just keep sinking.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not painful, but it is very uncomfortable. It's

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Speaker 3: like if you are holding your breath sitting on the

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Speaker 3: couch and you got to thirty seconds and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: this is kind of okay, and then you got to

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Speaker 3: a minute, and then it doesn't get painful, but it

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Speaker 3: gets really uncomfortable. And if you desire to just sit

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Speaker 3: in there at discomfort for another thirty seconds, you'd be

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Speaker 3: like all been out of shape, wanting to take a breath.

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Speaker 3: And that's what free diving's like. But the sensation of

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Speaker 3: pressure is want of discomfort. But it's like someone's giving

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Speaker 3: you a giant beer hug from behind and you've got

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Speaker 3: to tuck in your chin because someone's squeezing your throat

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Speaker 3: and your stomach is being drawn up inside your chest cavity.

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Speaker 3: So you've got always things going on. Plus this is

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Speaker 3: hard to escape fact that the longer you allow this

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Speaker 3: to happen, the worst it's going to get, and the

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Speaker 3: further away from help you're becoming.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like.

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Speaker 1: Such a tremendous sport when you describe like that.

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Speaker 2: So let's go back to your dive. So you're at

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Speaker 2: fifty meters.

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Speaker 1: You're obviously doing something about the pressure in your ears.

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Speaker 1: That's called equalizing, So you're doing this kind of equalizing

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Speaker 1: thing to keep your ears and eyes and headworking. But

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Speaker 1: everything inside you was squeezing and the pressures getting greater.

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Speaker 1: And you're at fifty meters, you know you've got to

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Speaker 1: go to one hundred. What happens in that last fifty meters?

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Speaker 1: And how long did it actually take from the moment

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Speaker 1: you drew breath and dived under the water until you got.

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Speaker 3: To the bottom a minute and a half, so it's.

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Speaker 2: A ninety second free dive down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, and had another ninety seconds to get back up,

335
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Speaker 3: so it was actually it was a bit longer. I

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00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,680
Speaker 3: think it was three and a half minutes there and back.

337
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,360
Speaker 3: So yeah, a little over a minute and a half

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Speaker 3: down and back each way. And yes, past fifty meters,

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00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,040
Speaker 3: it's very difficult once you're at residual volume, because equalizing

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Speaker 3: is so difficult when you've got no air left in

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Speaker 3: your chest or anywhere in your body. So Essentially, there's

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Speaker 3: this weird technique that we bring all you out of

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Speaker 3: our lungs and we saw it on our cheeks, and

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00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,160
Speaker 3: we use our tongue like a piston to circulate air

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Speaker 3: around our head and into our EU station tubes in

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00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,720
Speaker 3: order to equalize, which allows us to go much deeper.

347
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,880
Speaker 3: So why technically you can dive deeper using these techniques.

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Speaker 3: It does get more and more uncomfortable. In fact, I

349
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Speaker 3: remember as I passed through ninety meters thinking, oh my word,

350
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Speaker 3: it's like someone's got a petent ball and they're ramming

351
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Speaker 3: it through my chest and trying to pull it out

352
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Speaker 3: through my back, just like that. It was incredible the

353
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Speaker 3: amount of discomfort. I kind of was glad that I

354
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Speaker 3: had the peace of mind to just acknowledge it without

355
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Speaker 3: being terrified about it. I just kind of acknowledged and went, wow,

356
00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,640
Speaker 3: this is crazy. I'll be glad when this is over.

357
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Speaker 1: So then you do the last ten meters, You touch

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Speaker 1: the plate, grab the tag. Unfortunately you're attached to the

359
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,560
Speaker 1: rope by that lanyard, and so then you just turn

360
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,879
Speaker 1: around and you kick as hard as you can and

361
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:48,080
Speaker 1: swim back to the surface.

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00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you've got to really have your senses about you,

363
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,720
Speaker 3: so at the bottom you can't mark around down there,

364
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,400
Speaker 3: but you don't want to have gone all that way

365
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Speaker 3: to not retrieve a tag, otherwise you don't get it

366
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,879
Speaker 3: as an official dive. So look around at the bottom,

367
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,080
Speaker 3: get your tag, and then begin your assent, and you

368
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,760
Speaker 3: want to do that quite quickly. This is for me,

369
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:10,719
Speaker 3: This is the hardest part of the dive is when

370
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,960
Speaker 3: you're at the bottom and you're just starting to ascend,

371
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,400
Speaker 3: because you start to sort of do yourself checks and balances,

372
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,480
Speaker 3: how am I, how do my legs feel? And once

373
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,760
Speaker 3: when you go that deep, the pressure on you is

374
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,440
Speaker 3: so crazy and you've got so much lactic acid build

375
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,320
Speaker 3: up that when you go to kick, often your legs

376
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,880
Speaker 3: don't want to work, and that's not a good thing.

377
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Speaker 3: When you're that deep, your legs don't want to work,

378
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 3: and you're just willing them, willing them on, and it's

379
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,200
Speaker 3: very hard to keep away that voice inside your head

380
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,600
Speaker 3: that says, well, this is not good at all. You're

381
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,520
Speaker 3: super deep and your legs aren't going, So you've got

382
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,280
Speaker 3: to that's where mental toughness really does kick in. You've

383
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:51,080
Speaker 3: actually got to just acknowledge that happening and really just

384
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,359
Speaker 3: wheel your body through it in order to get back

385
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 3: to the surface.

386
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Speaker 2: And of course you made it. You got to the

387
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:57,200
Speaker 2: top and you were still well.

388
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Speaker 1: We were able to take a breath, and you give

389
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,520
Speaker 1: everyone a thumbs and everyone knew you were safe and

390
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 1: you did this one hundred meter dive. Now since then

391
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,679
Speaker 1: you have you've gone and set a new world record.

392
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:12,080
Speaker 1: You're the person who has dived deeper under ice than

393
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,280
Speaker 1: anybody else in the history of mankind.

394
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. After many years, seventeen years in fact,

395
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,000
Speaker 3: of doing free diving and competitive events all around the world,

396
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 3: I decided to do something that just kind of motivated

397
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 3: me more and would give me my own journey of

398
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,160
Speaker 3: self discovery in the sport. So I decided to take

399
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,440
Speaker 3: it an attempt at the world record to become the

400
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,439
Speaker 3: deepest man under ice, and seemboled a small crew. We

401
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,119
Speaker 3: went up high into the Arctic Circle and March of

402
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,400
Speaker 3: last year, cut a hole and ice that was nearly

403
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,440
Speaker 3: one and a half meters thick up on a frozen lake.

404
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,520
Speaker 1: So just with chainsaws, you pull a chainsaw out and

405
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 1: you drilling, you saw the ice and go a meter

406
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:52,840
Speaker 1: and a half through the ice to get to the

407
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:53,679
Speaker 1: water below.

408
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:58,639
Speaker 3: It almost so when you use the largest saw blade

409
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,160
Speaker 3: on the largest chainsaw you can get, it still does

410
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 3: not reach the water on the first couple of hours

411
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,000
Speaker 3: of cutting. So once you remove that layer, then yes,

412
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,639
Speaker 3: the second layer down you can actually get the blade

413
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 3: to touch the water. It's cold and it's dark. From

414
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,800
Speaker 3: one foot under the surface, it's just you don't have

415
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:19,479
Speaker 3: to wait so you get to the bottom. It's just

416
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,920
Speaker 3: a whole other level of ridiculous. When you get down

417
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 3: to the bottom and because of that cover of ice

418
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 3: and snow, no light permeates through that, which means that

419
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,639
Speaker 3: from the second that you put your head under it

420
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 3: is zero degree water and you're going to be diving

421
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 3: down the entire time and pitchback darkness. Even when you

422
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,440
Speaker 3: put high powered torches on, they just shine out into

423
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 3: pitch back darkness, so nothing refracts back to yougo. You

424
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 3: have just no experience of comfort from any sort of light.

425
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 2: Do you ever get scared about what might be down there?

426
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 3: No? No, I don't really.

427
00:20:54,720 --> 00:21:01,640
Speaker 1: I guess there's other things on your mind, like your oxygen. Yeah, yeah, amazing.

428
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 1: So as I listen to these stories and think about

429
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:05,879
Speaker 1: what you're going through. I can't help but think that

430
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 1: there are some pretty amazing metaphors for raising children.

431
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 2: The first is I.

432
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,159
Speaker 1: Mean you mentioned being at ninety meters and feeling like

433
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 1: somebody was literally trying to push a ball through your

434
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,399
Speaker 1: torso and retrieve it from your back, actually push it

435
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 1: through your body.

436
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 2: The pressure.

437
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,120
Speaker 1: And while I'm not going to suggest that parenting gives

438
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 1: us the same experience exactly, there are times where as

439
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 1: parents we feel tremendous pressure. We feel like the circumstances

440
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 1: are high stakes, you know. I mean, they just won't

441
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 1: get off their screen, they just won't go to bed,

442
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 1: they won't eat their dinner. That feels like high stakes

443
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,160
Speaker 1: in the moment when you're a parent, even if it's

444
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 1: not life and death like your circumstances, and therefore it

445
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 1: requires on the part of parents some pretty incredible self control.

446
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 1: And as a parent, there are times where we feel

447
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,919
Speaker 1: under enormous pressure. Maybe it's a child having a tantrum

448
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,679
Speaker 1: in public, or a teen is breaking our rules or

449
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 1: swearing at us in the living room in front of

450
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 1: the younger siblings and showing disrespect and all that kind

451
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 1: of thing. There would be countless times where that high

452
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 1: stakes pressure on a parent demands the kind of self

453
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: control that you need to have mentally when you're ninety

454
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: or one hundred or seventy meters below the surface. So obviously, well,

455
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 1: you haven't actually indicated that you have had those times

456
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 1: under the water. I mean there is pressure, But have

457
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 1: you had those fears and those worries and have you

458
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:29,719
Speaker 1: felt that pressure and if so, how do you control that?

459
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 1: And what does that teach us about dealing with the

460
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 1: pressure that our children sometimes enable us to feel?

461
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 4: Well?

462
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 3: I think free diving does elicit a lot of fear

463
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 3: and anxiety. I've been free diving for eighteen years, and

464
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 3: I still would find that on probably thirty or forty

465
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 3: percent of my dives, especially the deeper ones, I would

466
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 3: experience fear or a sense that I need to be

467
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 3: able to control everything but I can't. Freedoming did teach

468
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 3: me something quite early on, which was actually to let

469
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 3: go of that need to feel like I should be

470
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 3: in full control the whole time, but to more follow

471
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 3: a set of principles and guidelines that I knew would

472
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 3: give me safe through each dive. And it took me

473
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 3: a long time tool to evolve those but an early

474
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 3: mistake that I think I kept doing for I reckon

475
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 3: about a decade was diving with lots of fear, feeling

476
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 3: that as long as I puffed up my chest and

477
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 3: asserted my control and dominance in each dive, that I

478
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 3: would get deeper than any other athlete. And then I

479
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 3: found that all most other athletes started to go past

480
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 3: me in terms of how deep they were going, and

481
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 3: I got stuck at a particular depth because that approach

482
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,719
Speaker 3: was no longer serving me well. And I think there

483
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 3: is some interesting analogies when I think of my own

484
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 3: experience in parenting as well of trying to exert control

485
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 3: or convince my kids that they should do it my way,

486
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 3: I need to find that actually, if I took a

487
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 3: step backwards and looked at more holistically and turn the

488
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 3: volume down on my ego, that it actually might find

489
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 3: a farm or effective way of getting the outcomes with

490
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 3: my kids that I truly need.

491
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 1: It's really interesting that as well the way you say that, Aunt,

492
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 1: because I'm thinking, you know, those strategies that served you

493
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: well until you got to that particular depth, let's say,

494
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: for example, forty meters. Those strategies worked until that point,

495
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 1: and I think as parents, we kind of get into

496
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: patterns and we implement strategies at a certain level. But

497
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: once our children get to a particular depth, that is,

498
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: once they get to three or four or seven, we

499
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 1: need to do something different because they've changed and we

500
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 1: can't stay in that same pattern. But what about the pressure?

501
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 1: You know, you described the extraordinary pressure lungs the size

502
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: of a grapefruit, feeling like you're being impaled and a

503
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: ball is being pulled through your body and out the

504
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: other side. As parents, we feel tremendous pressure. We feel

505
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 1: in some ways that our children are doing some high

506
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 1: pressure things to us. How do you deal with that

507
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: pressure when you're under the water, and what does that

508
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: teach about parenting?

509
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is I think possibly the greatest thing

510
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 3: that free diving has taught me in fact is and

511
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 3: it was a hard lesson to learn it genuinely, was

512
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 3: was that if I wanted to get deeper than fifty meters,

513
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 3: then I had to change something fundamentally, not in my

514
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 3: physicality or my technique or my equipment, but in my mindset.

515
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 3: And I think for me, it's the same for parenting.

516
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 3: Just like you said, you just need a different game

517
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 3: plan in order to deal with new challenges. And for

518
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 3: ten years, I actually it was a ten years, No,

519
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 3: it's probably five years. I was stuck at fifty meters

520
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 3: and then ten years I was stuck at another block,

521
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 3: which was eighty meters. And for the fifty meters one

522
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 3: was it was actually coincidental. It was someone else who

523
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 3: gave me the guidance by saying something very extraordinary to me.

524
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 3: I was at a master free diving camp over in Turkey,

525
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 3: and I remember it was the final day of coaching

526
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 3: and training after two weeks in Turkey, and in a

527
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 3: plot called cash and we're out on a boat. It

528
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 3: was awful conditions with white caps and waves, and there

529
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 3: was only sort of six of us and some of

530
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 3: the top free divers in the world, and the best

531
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 3: free diving coach in the world was there. And I

532
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 3: was there suited up, thinking there's no way any of

533
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 3: us are going to dive today. These conditions are atrocious,

534
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 3: but I didn't say that because I didn't want to

535
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 3: be seen as the sook in the group. And there

536
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 3: was this one guy, his name was Toppy Litton Hungers,

537
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 3: who was a finished guy, and he was the world

538
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 3: record holder and swimming down to extraordinary depths with no

539
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 3: fins on whatsoever. And he hadn't really said a word

540
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 3: to anyone for two weeks. He was like the most

541
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 3: introverted guy I've ever met. Anyway, I was there freaking out.

542
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 3: It was the last day and I hadn't got past

543
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 3: my fifty bloody meters and I went and sat down

544
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 3: down at the transom so the back of the boat,

545
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 3: just about to get in the water, and I sat

546
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 3: next to Toppy and he didn't say word. I didn't

547
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 3: say word. And as I was putting on my mask

548
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 3: an he looked at me and he said, you know

549
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 3: your problem? And I just looked at him, went what

550
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 3: cause your problem is you don't know how to let go.

551
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 3: You try to fight. Anytime you try to fight, you

552
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 3: get stuck, your ears lock up, you're tense up, and

553
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 3: then you turn around and you have to come back

554
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 3: because you can't bloody equalize, mate, he is your problem

555
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 3: is you don't know how to let go, yus. As

556
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 3: soon as you figure that out, you're going to go

557
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 3: really deep. And then he just got in the water

558
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 3: and the buggers swum off. I was like, hang on

559
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 3: a second, what did you mean by that. And the

560
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 3: weird thing was is that then I swam out when

561
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 3: it was my turn, I went out to the road

562
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 3: and yeah, the conditions are awful, waves of breaking over

563
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 3: my mouth as I was trying to breathe up, and

564
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 3: all I could think was this, this bagger had put

565
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 3: this idea into my mind to let go. And the

566
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 3: whole way down on my swim, I'm feeling all uncomfortable

567
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 3: and been out of shape, but over and over in

568
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 3: my mind it's saying let go. And then as a

569
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 3: cell past forty meters again, in my mind, it's just

570
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 3: saying let go, and then I sail past fifty meters,

571
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 3: I sail past sixty meters and it means up turning

572
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 3: at sixty eight meters and swim back up. And it

573
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 3: was the weirdest thing ever like it. It felt like

574
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 3: a beautiful dive. It actually did feel in control, even

575
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 3: though I'd released my sense of control. And it was

576
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 3: the biggest shift I've ever made in free diving. I'm

577
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 3: annoyed that it took me ten years or five years

578
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 3: to make that shift, and that it took one very

579
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 3: strange comment. And sometimes that's all it takes. There's just

580
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 3: some insight or inspiration from Samarase to give you that

581
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 3: breakthrough that you need.

582
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: Now, I'm not going to suggest that parents need to

583
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: let go, but if letting go was a useful strategy,

584
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: and frankly, I think that letting go of control is

585
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: a very important parenting strategy, how would you how would

586
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 1: you advise somebody to let go?

587
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 2: How does a parent make.

588
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: That switch where they they still care about the outcome?

589
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: I mean, clearly, as a free dive, you don't want

590
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: to die, you want to get back to the surface.

591
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: You very much care about the outcome. So how do

592
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: you continue to guide your children, care about the outcome

593
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: and help them to move in an ideal direction while

594
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: being while having that level of detachment, that ability to

595
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: let go. How does a parent do that in real

596
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: life in a practical way.

597
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 3: Well, for me, it's about realizing that I am part

598
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,479
Speaker 3: of the issue. And that's hard, I think to accept

599
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 3: on a number of occasions when we see our kids

600
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 3: being unruly, as you think, this is my kid being unruly,

601
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 3: and it's them. They've got to fix this, and I'm

602
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 3: going to tell them how to fix this, and they

603
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 3: should listen to me because I'm the adult and I

604
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 3: know best, whereas in fact we still want the same outcome.

605
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 3: We want to get our kids through something that's a

606
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 3: significant challenge. The insight for me from the free diving

607
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 3: has been I still want the right outcome, which is

608
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 3: to go deeper. I want to feel that experience of

609
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 3: being successful with that. But I have to I have

610
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 3: to be more humble. I actually have to acknowledge that

611
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 3: what I'm doing is not working in this situation and

612
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 3: I have to be open to different paths to change

613
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 3: it up. And you know, when I figured that out

614
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 3: in free diving, it was monumental for me. I think

615
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 3: it took me years before I then learned how to

616
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 3: take that insight and apply it to how I was parenting.

617
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 3: And I still don't get it right all the time.

618
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 3: There's no way, But I catch myself more often now

619
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 3: going what outcome am I really after hear? What's the

620
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 3: best outcome for my son and my daughter? And what

621
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 3: else can I try if I'm if I put my

622
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 3: ego to one side and explore different paths and what

623
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 3: does my child really need from me today or right

624
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 3: in this moment? And I'm just trying to be open

625
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 3: to explore different ways of being for my children.

626
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: So let's let's talk about this in a really concrete way.

627
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: Let's say I've got a child and I don't feel

628
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: like they're living up to their potential. And by the way,

629
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: I've got a massive problem with that statement. You know,

630
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: I want my children to live up to their potential.

631
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: What does that even mean? Like, who actually does live

632
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: up to their potential? Anyway, I digress, But a lot

633
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: of parents will say I really want my children to

634
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: live up to their potential, whether it's academically, or whether

635
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: it's in the sporting arena, or whether it's musically or

636
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: in their art and drama pursuits, whatever.

637
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: It might be. I want my child to live up

638
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: to my potential. And so we've got this.

639
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: Let's say there's a whole lot of pressure around this

640
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: because the child is not living up to their potential,

641
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: they're not doing the stuff that they said that they

642
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: would do.

643
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 2: How do you let go of that?

644
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: Based on I mean, you've given some really nice ideas

645
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: in an abstract kind of way, in that general sense

646
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: of we need to let go. But when you're in

647
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: the heat of the moment and you're thinking, I just

648
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: I've spoken to this eight year old or this eighteen

649
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: year old fifteen times about this. I keep on having

650
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: the same conversation, and they're just not putting in the work.

651
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: They're not going to soccer practice, or they're not studying

652
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: for their exams, or they're not doing their music lessons properly.

653
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: So they're going to pass the music test. How do

654
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: you let go? Should you let go? I mean, I

655
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: think you and I both agree that the answer to

656
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: that is probably yes. But if so, how do you

657
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: let go in a way that actually works?

658
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 3: Yeah? Look, and I'm going to be honest, I struggle

659
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 3: as much for this as any any parent. So I

660
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 3: guess all like an offer here is that is that

661
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 3: I want them. I want to just be there to

662
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 3: agitate what's happening with your internal dialogue. Now I know

663
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 3: that that's another concept, right, And I'll try to get

664
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 3: more concrete for you, because you've rightly asked me to

665
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 3: be more concrete with this stuff. And so what I

666
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 3: what I mean by that is I want to challenge

667
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 3: them to play through the scenario, to just walk through. Okay,

668
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 3: So because you don't want to do your homework and

669
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 3: you don't want to you don't want to participate in

670
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 3: I know, taekwondo anymore because you feel bored and you

671
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 3: want to play with mates or build tiktoks and okay, cool,

672
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 3: So what does where does this?

673
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: You know?

674
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 3: What do you love the most about this? And where

675
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 3: does this take you? And what things were you learning

676
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 3: from from taekwondo that you kind of miss right now?

677
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 3: And and I just I literally just play it out

678
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 3: in the conversation with them, just just just to kind

679
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 3: of go, where does this lead us to? And sometimes

680
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 3: they go, no, I'm really happy just being being me,

681
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 3: enjoying building my tiktoks right now in the moment. And

682
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 3: that's You've got to suck it up, dad, That's just

683
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 3: how it's going to be. And I go, right, my

684
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 3: child's not ready for this other conversation yet, but it

685
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that they won't be in a week's time.

686
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:31,959
Speaker 3: And so I'll try to have it again with them

687
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 3: in a week's time. And I just you just got

688
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 3: to stay really open because if you if you go

689
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 3: in and go listen, I'm going to tell you what

690
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 3: happens if you follow down this path any longer building

691
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 3: your tiktoks and not doing your homework and you're going.

692
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: To be a failure. Your life's over. We might as

693
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 2: well just gen up now.

694
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 3: You're not living up to your potentially you're not going

695
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 3: to get the outcome. You won't and I'll give you. Okay,

696
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 3: I'm going to give you one more concrete example really quickly.

697
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 3: So I would love my kids given them. I've moved

698
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 3: my family down the coast. I would love my kids

699
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 3: to take up surfing. And what happens is you get

700
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 3: them out surfing, and you know, for the first couple

701
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 3: of times they really love it, and then the next

702
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 3: time you try to take them out, they go, oh, no, no, no, no,

703
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 3: I don't want to do it anymore. It's cold, it's wed,

704
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 3: my witsy doesn't fit right, none of my mates are coming,

705
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 3: and that's it. Don't want to do it anymore or

706
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 3: even worse than you force them to. And they go

707
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 3: out and they have a wipeout, A big wave hits

708
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 3: them and they go, I hate the sport. You make

709
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 3: me do it, and I never want to do it again.

710
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 3: And then it's kind of as a parent, you go, man,

711
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 3: I've screwed it up royally here. They're never going to

712
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 3: do this again. But then it's about going, how do

713
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 3: I get them to have a wonderful positive experience with

714
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 3: this and get some success with it, And even if

715
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 3: I have to kind of engineer that scenario. So I

716
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 3: would wait for the sunniest day with the best conditions,

717
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 3: I'll get their mates over, get all the boards ready,

718
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 3: and just go, We're going to really short just for

719
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 3: half an hour surf and I'll push them on the

720
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 3: waves and make sure they have this the most fantastic time.

721
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden, that's an intervention over.

722
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 3: They just want to go surfing all the time. It's

723
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 3: not always as easy to do because see things pretty

724
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 3: fun support I think, compared to something I doing homework.

725
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 3: But there's something in there around being bitter at problem

726
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 3: solving experience, not always coming at it from the same

727
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,439
Speaker 3: angle that frustrates our kids and puts up barriers between

728
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 3: us and them.

729
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, my experiences that force creates resistance. In fact, just

730
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: as you were sharing that, I had an experience just

731
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: over the weekend, my six year old has been so

732
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: resistant about riding a bicycle.

733
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a cyclist.

734
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to get on a road bike and

735
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: come into one hundred k's with me, But I just

736
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: want her to come on a bike ride and enjoy

737
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: the opportunity to be together as a.

738
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 2: Family on a ride. And I've been you know, Emily,

739
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: come on, I want to teach you to ride a bike.

740
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 2: I don't want to learn now now.

741
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: The last time I took her on the bike, we

742
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: took the training wheels off, because she can ride with

743
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: training wheels no problem. Took the training wheels off and

744
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: she had a couple of little stacks and you know,

745
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: Gray's knee hurt a hand or that kind of thing,

746
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: really simple stuff. She wasn't hurt badly, but it was

747
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: enough to make her a bit miserable. And I realized

748
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: that I wasn't doing it. You're familiar with my three

749
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: e's right, So I needed to explore, explain, and empower.

750
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 2: So I sat down, I.

751
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: Put my arm around. I said, Emily, can you tell

752
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: me why you don't want to ride a bike? Like

753
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: you said, you actually ask all those questions, where is

754
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: it going to lead? What happens if you can't ride

755
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: a bike?

756
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: And she said, I don't need to ride a bike.

757
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 3: I don't care.

758
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: I said, okay, I get it, I said, but and

759
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: then I decided to explain, I said, Emily, and I

760
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: kind of put a bit of emotional guilty in, just gently,

761
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: not too much, just a little bit. I said, Emily,

762
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: it would make me so happy if I could teach you,

763
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 1: because I know that you're going to love it, and

764
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: we can have family bike rides and it'll be so

765
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: much fun. And then I said this, I said, I'm

766
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: not going to force you to do this, but I'd

767
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: be so happy if you could. And then I empowered her.

768
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: Why don't you have a think about it, and let's

769
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 1: go down and we'll learn to ride the bike, but

770
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: only for one go.

771
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 2: We'll just have one go.

772
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: We won't do long gos, we won't do five goes.

773
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: We're just going to have one go. And once you've

774
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: had one go, that's all we've got to do. And

775
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: I only took about two or three minutes.

776
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 2: She came to me. She said, all right, I'll do it.

777
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: She wouldn't put a suit on, she will get changed

778
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: out of address, but she was happy to come and

779
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 1: do it for one go. And you know, fifteen minutes

780
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: later she was riding the bike and now she can't

781
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: wait to get on it again. Like she just loves it,

782
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 1: but it seems like, you know, for about six months,

783
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: I've been trying to force it, even though I'm the

784
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: parenting expert who says not to do it, I've been

785
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 1: trying to force it. And then the one day where

786
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: I eased off and said, when you're ready, but here's

787
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: why it's important, and I get what your issues are,

788
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: and I reassured her I won't let you fall. All

789
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: of a sudden, we got a resolved, so the pressure

790
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: was off and it worked. Okay, now we need to

791
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 1: move this along because I know the time's getting away

792
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: from it. So and a couple of other questions for you.

793
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: One more metaphor that stood out to me was this

794
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,399
Speaker 1: the idea you' is sinking into the depths of a dark,

795
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: cold ocean, and you're going deeper and deeper, and it

796
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: feels a little bit like sinking into the depths of

797
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: stress and fear with our children. So I'm thinking, you know,

798
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 1: maybe you've got a child that's got a health issue

799
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: or a label or a diagnosis, or they're getting poor

800
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: academic outcomes, or they're being bullied, and all those things

801
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: are pulling us down deeper and deeper and further from

802
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:05,479
Speaker 1: the surface and safety and solutions. So as a parent

803
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 1: is feeling like they're sinking, you know, they've past twenty

804
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 1: meters and now the weight of parenting is simply pulling

805
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: them down to an early grave. What would you say

806
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: that parents can do to kind of, I don't know,

807
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: get back up to the surface for air, to take

808
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: that pressure off when they are surrounded with really painful,

809
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: very real pressureus.

810
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 3: I think the first thing is is to try to

811
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 3: give yourself the breathing space to take a step back

812
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 3: and get perspective over things. And there's two ways that

813
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 3: I personally try to do that, whether it's with my

814
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 3: kids and how I'm parenting in a difficult situation, or

815
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 3: it's with my sport. Because it's actually the same principle.

816
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 3: I need to step back and try to see it

817
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 3: for what it really is. And the first way that

818
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 3: I do that is I give myself a break and

819
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 3: give myself a period of time where I stop beating

820
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 3: myself up over it about maybe a failure or a

821
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 3: perceived block that's mine and I own it, and I

822
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 3: just kind of acknowledge it for what it is and

823
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 3: explore the idea that maybe I just need to get

824
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 3: some help with it. And then the second thing I

825
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 3: do is actually find people that I really trust and

826
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: believe in to kind of go, hey, have you had

827
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 3: to deal with something similar to this, So what do

828
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 3: you do? And I try to use them as a

829
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 3: sounding board. Sometimes they might suggest an answer that I

830
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 3: don't like. And it's not about just kind of taking

831
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 3: blindly their view on things, but it's actually using others

832
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 3: around me, my network, my social circle, is to just

833
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 3: use as a sounding board to try things out and

834
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 3: get some other ideas going, because I think the biggest

835
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 3: risk that we run is not getting any other ideas,

836
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 3: the insights and how to approach a problem differently. It's like,

837
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 3: you know, if I'm a hammer, then everything's a nail,

838
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 3: and I try to treat it all the same way.

839
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 3: I'm saying, break out of that. But if you're in it,

840
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 3: you can't break out of it. You've got to take

841
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 3: a step back, get on the back of the boat

842
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 3: with Toppy, and get Toppy to give you some random,

843
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 3: crazy advice and you kind of go, huh, I'm going

844
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 3: to reflect on that and maybe there's something in it

845
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 3: for me, and you'll be surprised with that inspiration can

846
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 3: sometimes come from.

847
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. I think that's great.

848
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: In psychological terms, we call it psychological or self distancing.

849
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: And there's a whole range of techniques that are useful there.

850
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 1: But such such important things for us to do, especially

851
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: when we're dealing with those blockages as parents. Now, last

852
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: question about free diving, and then we'll wrap up with

853
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: my five questions that everybody in this podcast is going

854
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: to get to work through, and they're rapid fire questions.

855
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: But first one, last big one.

856
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 1: What's the most powerful thing that you've learned from free diving,

857
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: not necessarily to do with family or parenting, just about

858
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: life that you would share, like, how does that thing

859
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 1: help you to be a better aunt?

860
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 3: Williams Humility. That's the number one thing I've learned. The

861
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 3: only way for me to be successful in my sport

862
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 3: is to hang up my ego or at least dial

863
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 3: it down a bit. It's two. This is quite ironic

864
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 3: even saying this out loud, because it's a competitive sport.

865
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 3: But I have to put aside my desire to win.

866
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 3: I have to put aside my desire to be the deepest.

867
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 3: I have to put away my desire to compare myself

868
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,720
Speaker 3: against others, and I actually just have to be humble.

869
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: And the weird thing is is that when you just

870
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 3: try to accept that you want to do it for

871
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 3: the sake of doing it for what it teaches you

872
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 3: about yourself and having that experience and testing your own boundaries,

873
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 3: then it's a magical experience. And freedoving for the last

874
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 3: decade has just all been about that. For me, I

875
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 3: don't really care if I beat you or not. I'd

876
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 3: rather you beat me, and then when we celebrated your success,

877
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 3: that would be as exciting for me as as having

878
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 3: my own success with the sport. And for me it's

879
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 3: the same. And actually, when I reflect on what I

880
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 3: love the most about parenting is actually it's helping me

881
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 3: become a better version of myself for my kids. And

882
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 3: if I'm truly being honest to this intent to being humble,

883
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 3: then I don't force my kids to be another version

884
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 3: of me. I simply I just want the best outcomes

885
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 3: for them, and to do that, I have to stay flexible,

886
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 3: keep exploring and finding new ways to you know, to

887
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 3: help them through some of these challenges, even when those

888
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 3: challenges really great me and bug the hell out of me,

889
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 3: and I never get it right every time. It's always

890
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 3: about kind of acknowledging this stuff's hard, getting perspective and

891
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 3: getting help when you can.

892
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and of course surfing and surfing.

893
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, lots of time out to go diving.

894
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, and we're gonna set this podcast up in

895
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: such a way that every guest on the podcast answers

896
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: a series of questions to wrap things up.

897
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 2: You're the very first person to try it.

898
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: You're my first guest, so well, the good news for

899
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 1: you is there's no pressure because no one's going to

900
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: compare your answers to all of the great answers in

901
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: that amazing other episode because you're red your episode number one.

902
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: Here we go with question one. If we ask your

903
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: kids their favorite thing to do with you, what would

904
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 1: they say.

905
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 3: Or hands down, that'd say to go skiing. To get

906
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 3: that snow skiing We've only ever done that together as

907
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 3: a family once, but I reckon i'd say snow skiing,

908
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 3: probably closely followed by camping. We haven't done a lot

909
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 3: of camping either, but I reckon those have been some

910
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 3: of the coolest memories we've had as a family. And

911
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 3: then more on a day to day basis probably just

912
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,760
Speaker 3: time that we spend together as a whole family, including

913
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 3: the little dog Cookie. So it'll be walks on the

914
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 3: beaches where we, you know, just shoot the breeze and

915
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 3: get out in the open air.

916
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 2: What's been your trickiest parenting moment.

917
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 3: Trickiest parenting moment I've ever had was finding out that

918
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 3: my one of my kids was being bullied at school ouch,

919
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 3: and then feeling helpless as his parent because my initial

920
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 3: response was I'm going to find out who's bullying my child,

921
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 3: and then I'm going to go and bloody throttle them

922
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 3: and their parents. Those of you can't do that. And

923
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,919
Speaker 3: then when my rational ada brankicked and I was still

924
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 3: I still found myself coming up short. I can't, you know.

925
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 3: The only pathway I've got here, as I think, is

926
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 3: to speak with his school. And so I make a

927
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 3: really effort to not only speak with the school, but

928
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 3: to make sure that I spoke with the principle, who

929
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,479
Speaker 3: didn't want to speak to me about it initially until

930
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 3: I really impressed on him that ultimately the code that

931
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 3: they have said as a school around bullying comes under

932
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 3: his leadership. Therefore he's ultimately responsible therefore, he owes me

933
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 3: the responsibility or the duty to talk with me about

934
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 3: it to find how we're going to resolve it. But

935
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 3: even after having spoken with him, which was a good conversation,

936
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 3: I still found myself thinking, Man, I just how can

937
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 3: this be? How can my child be experiencing this sort

938
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 3: of challenge or discom feel pain and I'm helpless as

939
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 3: a parent? I honestly felt like a period of helplessness.

940
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I found that those are they are the

941
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: trickiest times as a parent where you just can't really

942
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: do anything because you want to fix everything.

943
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:51,479
Speaker 2: And you just can't.

944
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. It's an awful feeling, it really is. And you

945
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 3: know the irony was is that actually it was my

946
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 3: child who solved it, and it was through really good

947
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:09,399
Speaker 3: open conversations with their child to let to let them

948
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 3: come up with how they wanted it to be solved,

949
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 3: and they decided to take it on themselves to resolve

950
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 3: it through a number of strategies which they shared with me,

951
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 3: and we collectively agreed that that would be a great approach.

952
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 3: But boy, that was tough. Yeah.

953
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 2: I love the way that ended up as well. Thank

954
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 2: you for sharing that. Number three, if you could spend.

955
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 1: An hour with your children at any age at all,

956
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:32,919
Speaker 1: what age would you pick?

957
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 3: And why, oh no, this is an easy one. I

958
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 3: would pick ages three and four hands down, because they

959
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 3: are at the most ridiculously cute stage then, and you

960
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 3: kind of miss it when they get to like the

961
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,359
Speaker 3: early teenage years and you look back at the old

962
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 3: photos and videos. Just recently, I was on the couch

963
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 3: with Chloe, my youngest, and she's showing me this video

964
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 3: that we made of here when you know, she was

965
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 3: three years old walking around the house in a cardboard

966
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 3: with crazy, big curly here saying I Am a robot,

967
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 3: and you know, her brother chasing her and the dog

968
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 3: going bananas, and those moments are just ridiculously cute where

969
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 3: you just want to cuddle them and give them all

970
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 3: your love and stuff, and it seems to get harder

971
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 3: to do that, and they have those moments of pure

972
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 3: i don't know, just just pure blisses, you know, and

973
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 3: that kind of oh, that childhood and nature that they have,

974
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 3: and so I miss those. I miss those moments of

975
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 3: just yeah, one wonderful yeah times with the kids when

976
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 3: they were young.

977
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,399
Speaker 1: Love it question for no matter how good life has been,

978
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: and how glad you are to be in the moment.

979
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: What are you most looking forward to as a dad?

980
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 3: The thing I'm most looking forward to is a dad

981
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 3: would be the day when the not when the kids

982
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 3: leave the house, but when they come back. So they

983
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 3: come back and they've got their own families, their own partners,

984
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 3: and they come back and we have these big meals together,

985
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 3: and you know, we celebrate Christmases and birthdays together, and

986
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 3: we have extended families all coming to the grandparents' house,

987
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 3: you know, our place, and we just you know, we

988
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 3: just entertained with music and song and playing games together

989
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 3: and then getting to know their kids. I think that's

990
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 3: going to be the most magical time of our lives.

991
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 2: Beautiful and question of a five.

992
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: If you could go back to Aunt Williams as a

993
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: young dad with no experience at raising children at all,

994
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: what advice would you give yourself and how did you

995
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 1: actually learn why that's valuable.

996
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 3: There's probably a couple of bits of advice I give myself.

997
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,800
Speaker 3: They're kind of almost contradictory and a certain way. The

998
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 3: first one I'd say is, mate, you're not going to

999
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:45,800
Speaker 3: be as good as you think you're going to be.

1000
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 3: And then I'd quickly follow it up with but that's okay.

1001
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 3: You just got to learn how to give yourself a

1002
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 3: break when tough, when things get ready tough, when you

1003
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 3: become a parent mate, and you'll figure it out, but

1004
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 3: make sure you give yourself plenty of perspective and don't

1005
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 3: beat yourself up over it.

1006
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 2: And how did you come across the value of that advice?

1007
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 3: Definitely through freedover. It taught me if you don't you know,

1008
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 3: you think you're gonna be awesome, but you're not. And now, yeah, there,

1009
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 3: the more humble I get is the freedover, the more

1010
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 3: successful overcome. And it's true. I don't just say that

1011
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 3: as a throwaway line. I've been competing for seventeen years

1012
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,760
Speaker 3: and my most successful events, with my biggest performances against

1013
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 3: the strongest athletes in the world, have come late in

1014
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 3: my forties.

1015
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 2: And Williams, it's just been a delight to talk to you.

1016
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for sharing so generously.

1017
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: If people did want to find out more about you,

1018
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: whither you're free diving and you know, following you on

1019
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,800
Speaker 1: Instagram or something like that, or even the work that

1020
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 1: you do with Modus Leadership in terms of the corporate

1021
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 1: work that you're doing.

1022
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 2: How would they find you?

1023
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 3: Probably the easiest is either find me on LinkedIn or

1024
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 3: just through my website, which is Modus Leadership dot com

1025
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 3: dot au. And look, I do have a website that's

1026
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 3: just my freedom called Aunt Williams dot com. I probably

1027
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,439
Speaker 3: haven't updated it in a while, I'm honest, So maybe

1028
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 3: best is just find me at Modus Leadership dot com

1029
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 3: do au. Thanks Justin, I.

1030
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: Hope you've gotten some insight into Aunt Williams as a

1031
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: result of this Parenting in Perspective podcast. I just love

1032
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 1: the fact that an elite ocean free diver who can

1033
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 1: dive to one hundred meters on a single breath that

1034
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: still still struggles to get his kids to join him

1035
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 1: in the ocean for a surf. Join me, doctor Justin Colson.

1036
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,800
Speaker 1: Next time, as I talk with Professor Wendy Rolnick of

1037
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 1: Clark University about seeing things from our children's perspective.

1038
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 4: We'd all kind of start with taking children's perspective, thinking

1039
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 4: about where are they coming from, how are they thinking

1040
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 4: about what they're doing, and trying to get into their

1041
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 4: heads and understand their perspective.

1042
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: That's Professor Wendy Grohlnik my next guest on episode two

1043
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 1: of the Parenting in Perspective podcast, a Happy Families podcast.

1044
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 1: For more information on how to access more premium content,

1045
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: visit Happy family dot com, dot A and click on

1046
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: memberships

1047
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:10,760
Speaker 4: MHM