1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,239 Speaker 1: Already and this this is the Daily. 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 2: This is the Daly OS. 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 3: Oh, now it makes sense. 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 4: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday, 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 4: the twenty ninth of May. I'm Emma Gillespie. 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: I'm Harry Seculch. 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 4: This time a week ago on the podcast, we were 8 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 4: discussing the future of the Liberal Party after the Nationals 9 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 4: announced that it was splitting from its long term political partner, 10 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 4: effectively ending the coalition. But eight days since news of 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 4: that breakup emerged, we got another update yesterday which has 12 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 4: thrown a curveball into this entire situation. 13 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 2: Dave and I have reached agreement formally to reform the coalition. 14 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 2: I'm want to thank you, David for the respectful and 15 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: productive way that you and I have engaged throughout this process, 16 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: and I know that we will be a great partnership 17 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: going forward. 18 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 4: The Liberal and National Party have reached a deal. The 19 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 4: coalition is back together. 20 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 3: Now. 21 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 4: This comes after the Nats said they wanted to cut 22 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 4: ties after failing to secure some guarantees from the Liberals 23 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 4: about the future direction of four key policies, which we'll 24 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 4: touch on a bit later. But it left us with 25 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 4: so many questions about what led to the decision, what 26 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 4: it could mean for the future of each party, how 27 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 4: the new opposition would function, and Australia's overall political landscape. 28 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 4: But now that this separation has been abandoned and a 29 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 4: coalition deal is back on, I needed to bring in 30 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 4: the big guns to break this all down for us 31 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 4: tda's political expert, our journalist Harry Seculitch, to take us 32 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 4: through all that's been happening in one of the shortest 33 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 4: breakups in history and why it all matters. 34 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 3: Hurry, welcome back to the podcast. 35 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: Great to be here, Emma. 36 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 4: It has been an ongoing saga, this coalition, will they 37 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 4: won't they? 38 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 3: But it did make things really interesting after the election. 39 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: Which feels weird because all the dramas usually during the election, 40 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: during the campaign, which is a bit more of a 41 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: pressure cooker environment because you're trying to get elected. But 42 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: in this context we've had all the drama come after 43 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: the election. It seems I can't even seem to remember 44 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: what happened before the third day. 45 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been an election after math unlike any other 46 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 4: in my memory, or at least my voting consciousness. With 47 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 4: all these recounts, these tight races, and of course the 48 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 4: Liberal National Parties drama. Let's just go back to last 49 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 4: Tuesday when this separation was announced. 50 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 3: What exactly happened. 51 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: Well, I was on leave, Emma, which I just have 52 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,519 Speaker 1: to say, as a political nerd, that absolutely gutted me. Yeah, 53 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: but I was watching closely. It was actually kind of 54 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: nice to be at home and watch it all unfold 55 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: on TV before me, so I can just kind of, 56 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: you know, digest it myself, I guess. 57 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 58 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: But basically what happened was leading up to last Tuesday, 59 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: there was no hint of a coalition agreement actually coming 60 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: to bear, which is pretty typical after an election. It's 61 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: just kind of like rubbersta that the Liberal and National 62 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: Parties would agree to form an opposition together, they would 63 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: have some leadership roles that would be divided up between 64 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: the two parties, and it's just pretty standard fair But 65 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: that hadn't happened. Then we see this press conference be 66 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: called by David Little Proud after a bit of speculation. 67 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 3: And he is the leader of the Nationals Party. 68 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: Yes, and he said that there would be no coalition 69 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: agreement based on a number of factors. But it basically 70 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: confirmed what was in everyone's mind, which was what is 71 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: actually going on with the Coalition? Why haven't they struck 72 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: a deal yet? 73 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 4: I think it would be helpful to maybe take it 74 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,559 Speaker 4: back a little bit into the history books to understand 75 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 4: the role of the Coalition in Australian politics. I think 76 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 4: when I was a high school kid, I thought the 77 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 4: Coalition was the Liberal Party. Wasn't until I got a 78 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 4: bit older that I worked out, No, we're talking about 79 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 4: two separate entities. 80 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 3: But how has that worked historically? That partnership, So it's 81 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 3: an allie. Just think of it as two parties that 82 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 3: are formally allied with each other. They both have conservative values, 83 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 3: they have a lot of similar policy ambitions, and since 84 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 3: World War Two they've basically operated as a singular unit 85 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 3: in opposition to the Labor Party. 86 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: So if you want to think of it as a marriage, 87 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: you can, and it would be quite helpful to think 88 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: of this marriage scenario when we're talking about a breakup 89 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:26,799 Speaker 1: as well. 90 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 4: Lots of marriage metaphors over the last eight days. But 91 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 4: we heard David little Proud, as you mentioned last week, 92 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 4: call this press conference announce that for the first time 93 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 4: in almost forty years, the Liberals and Nationals would not 94 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 4: be agreeing to a formal alliance. 95 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 3: Did he say why so? 96 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: He pointed to four specific policy areas when it came 97 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: to his decision and the National Party's decision to break 98 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: up the coalition agreement or just not enter into one 99 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: after this election. So the first one was this issue 100 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: of divestiture powers, which is ba the power to break 101 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: up a big company. They specifically spoke about supermarkets, so Colson, Woolworths, 102 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: and hardware chains so Materi ten and Bunnings. 103 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 4: There are a lot of headlines about these divestiture claims 104 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 4: during the microscope that's been on the supermarket duopoly in 105 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 4: the last couple of years. 106 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: That's right, and the Nationals in particular have really been 107 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: pushing to get these divestite powers up and they want 108 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: it as part of a formal policy platform. The second 109 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: thing that they wanted commitment to was guaranteed mobile phone 110 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: coverage in rural and regional areas, which for the Nationals 111 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: makes sense that they're putting that forward because that is 112 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: their main constituency. They are a party of the regions. 113 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: The third area was a twenty billion dollar regional fund 114 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: that was announced in the lead up to the election 115 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 1: by then Opposition leader Peter Dutton, this was basically an 116 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: investment fund for regional projects, so think of roads, infrastructure, 117 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: and also hiring and retaining healthcare workers out in the regions, 118 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: which we though is a bit more of a challenge. 119 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: And then the fourth area, which we're going to put 120 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: a pin in, comes to nuclear power. 121 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, had a feeling that's what you were going. 122 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: To say exactly, and it's one that a lot of 123 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: people picked up on and spoke about afterwards, and that's 124 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: because it sort of chopped and changed a little bit. 125 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: But basically David little Proud, the Nationals leader, wanted to 126 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: keep that nuclear policy that the coalition had taken to 127 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: the election. He wanted that firmed up going forward as well. 128 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: So it's also really important to note that coalition agreements 129 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: in the past aren't necessarily tied to policy. It's usually 130 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: just what we call like motherhood statements, which are these 131 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: kind of loose commitments to work together. In opposition. It 132 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: firms up some leadership roles, so if you have a 133 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: deputy leader of the opposition, it's usually in the Liberal Party, 134 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: but once you're in government, the deputy leader becomes the 135 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: leader of the National Party. It's all very technical, but 136 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: it just basically out in writing what has been formally 137 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: agreed to over the last eighty years or so. 138 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 4: So why in this instance was Little proud on behalf 139 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 4: of the Nationals so determined to get these four policy 140 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 4: areas written into an agreement. Does it have anything to 141 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 4: do with the Liberal Party's outcome at the last election. 142 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: He did argue that the Nationals didn't really go backwards. 143 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: I mean, they did lose one Senate spot, which they 144 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: also blame on a sunken coalition vote overall in New 145 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: South Wales, and they also didn't pick up their seat 146 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: of Claire, which was held by a former Nationals who's 147 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: now turned into an independent in the last parliament, and 148 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: he held on to that seat as an independent. So 149 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: they did go backwards slightly, but not massively. The Liberal Party, 150 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: on the other hand, lost quite a few seats. They 151 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: didn't gain any ground against Labor. In fact, they went backwards. 152 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: At least thirteen seats have been lost to the Labor Party. 153 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: Now you just have to go back to our election 154 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: night coverage and we had dozens of seats ready to go. 155 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: Whether it was going to be Liberals gaining seats off Labor, 156 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: which we didn't actually end up putting out into our 157 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: feed because turns out the Swingers going in the other direction. 158 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: The Labor Party gained quite a significant majority at the election, 159 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: and so the Nationals saw the results bear out and 160 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: they said, well, the Liberals have really lost quite a 161 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: lot of skin. We haven't lost as much. So I 162 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: guess they believed that they had some sort of residence 163 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 1: in the electorate that the Liberal Party may not have. 164 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 4: Okay, so we know though that those attempts to get 165 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 4: those four policy areas written into a deal were unsuccessful 166 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 4: at that point, and that's when we saw David little 167 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 4: Prowd come out and say the Nationals we're going to 168 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 4: break things off with the Libs. How did the Liberal 169 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 4: Party react last week? 170 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: Well, Susan Lee, who was by that time the very 171 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 1: newly elected Liberal Party leader, she'd only been in the 172 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: job for about a week, said that they hadn't made 173 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: any commitment on any policy whatsoever. So her language was 174 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: that no policy adopted, nothing abandoned either, that the party 175 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: was going to go through a full scale review of 176 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,439 Speaker 1: all its policies that it took to the election, which 177 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: she acknowledged they lost quite convincingly and that they were 178 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: then going to look into what could be refined, what 179 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: could be changed, But she didn't specifically isolate any policy 180 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: in particular, she didn't isolate any area that she wanted 181 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: to keep set in stone, but she also didn't indicate 182 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: that she was going to get rid of anything either. 183 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: So her position was it's just not time to talk 184 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: about policy just yet, whereas the Nationals wanted that commitment 185 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: firmed up straight away. But both leaders did strike this 186 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: tone of saying that their door was going to be opened. 187 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: So they did leave that possibility of a reunion out there, 188 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: and they wanted to ensure that people understood that this 189 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: was not going to be a flat rejection of any 190 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: coalition into the future, and as we've seen play out 191 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: over the week, they were right to sort of emphasize 192 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: that tone, I think. 193 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 4: So it was more that they were taking a break 194 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 4: than splitting up for good. 195 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 3: As we now know. Did this come out of nowhere? 196 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 4: I mean, obviously we knew that there were those priority 197 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 4: policy areas for the Nationals in the lead up to 198 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 4: the election, but do you think the public had the 199 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 4: sense of the disharmony that was kind of potentially brewing. 200 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: So it's definitely really clear that this was a break 201 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: from convention, and I think the public could bear that 202 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: out because there was no coalition like we understood it 203 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: to be for the last forty years since. 204 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 3: In terms of numbers exactly. 205 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: And it's been nearly forty years since the last coalition 206 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: actually broke up. And then the Nationals and the Liberals 207 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: also differed in their language over what they considered reasonable 208 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: as an expectation of each other. So whether you put 209 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: the policy into the coalition agreement, whether that was considered reasonable. 210 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: The Liberals didn't think so, but the Nationals did, whereas 211 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: the Liberals thought, let's agree to work together and then 212 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: we'll work through those policies once we actually agree that 213 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: we're going to be in this as a team. Over 214 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: the week, you saw a few different versions of events 215 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 1: play out as well, which is pretty natural in politics. 216 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: It comes back to depends who you ask. And one 217 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: version of event that stood out was really interesting because 218 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: it came back to this idea of cabinet solidarity not 219 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: being an agreement that both sides were comfortable with. Now, 220 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: cabinet solidarity applies to both the government and the opposition, 221 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: and that's basically an agreement not to speak out against 222 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: the formal position of your party. It's basically being a 223 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: good team player. So if you have a policy that 224 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: you're putting forward as a coalition member, and if you're 225 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: in the shadow cabinet, so one of the shadow senior 226 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: figures in the shadow ministry, then you're not going to 227 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: go out in public and start criticizing that policy and 228 00:11:58,760 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: cutting it at the knees. 229 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 4: So it's about putting up a united front, even if 230 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 4: you might be disagreeing behind closed doors effectively. 231 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: So so this is a pretty standard convention. And Susan Lee, 232 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: the Liberal Party leader, had said that she wanted that 233 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: as part of the coalition agreement, once again a pretty 234 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: stand affair, and that the Nationals weren't prepared to agree 235 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: to cabinet solidarity as a condition of their agreement. The 236 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: Nationals came back and said, well, that wasn't exactly the case. 237 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: That wasn't taken to our party room. We didn't discuss it. 238 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: So it sort of came back to this back and 239 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: forth of all right, cabinet solidarity became a sticking point, 240 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: but we don't know who actually was vying against it. 241 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 3: We'll be back with today's deep dive right after this. 242 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: Another bone of contention that was out there in the public, 243 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, Emma, could people see that there was 244 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: something wrong? I think that also stretches back to just 245 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: after the election, just into Namba. Jimper Price, who's a 246 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: Northern Territory Coalitions senator, defected from the National Party room 247 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: to the Liberal Party Room, which was met with white 248 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: hot anger amongst some Nationals. They were coming out and 249 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: saying that this is a betrayal, that this is a 250 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 1: takeover by the Liberal Party. That they started throwing around 251 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: some accusations saying that Just Enterprise was being courted by 252 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: some senior Liberals during the campaign, that she was elected 253 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: effectively as a National senator but now is sitting in 254 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: the Liberal Parties room, which they just didn't consider to 255 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: be very fair. And on a technical point, in the Senate, 256 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: you need at least five members in order to gain 257 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: what's known as party status, and that just gives you 258 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: some resourcing and staffing. The Nationals without Just Enterprise have 259 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: four members, so they wouldn't be considered a party in 260 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 1: the upper house in the Senate. So whoever you ask 261 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: will give you maybe a varied response in politics, but 262 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people saw that as quite unfair. 263 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 4: A sign of potential disunity within the Coulish ranks. That's right, okay, 264 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 4: So we understand that there were several aspects contributing potentially 265 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 4: to this decision to announce a separation. But obviously there 266 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 4: has been a walking back or a reunion over all 267 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 4: of these issues. So how have the parties come together 268 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 4: to overcome those points of contention? 269 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: So if we work through those three areas, so we've 270 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: got just enterprises defection, the four policies, and cabinet solidarity, 271 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: I'll go through one by one. So cabinet solidarity straight away, 272 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: the Nationals said we are fine with that. They got 273 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: that in writing to the Liberal Party and they firmed 274 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: up that commitment tick on the four policies. The Liberal 275 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: Party convened last week late last week and they had 276 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: a meeting of all the elected MPs and senators and 277 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: some provisional MPs because some of the counts are still 278 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: going on. That's another podcast for another day. 279 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 4: I show still going still. 280 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: Can you believe it, It's almost been a month. So 281 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: this is where the Liberal Party got together and said, 282 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: all right, we can agree in principle to some of 283 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: these policy areas. So that's the divestige of powers, the 284 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: Regional Fund, the telecommunications of all regional and rural areas. 285 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: And then with nuclear power was a bit of a 286 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: step change because the Nationals actually through the week watered 287 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: down their commitment to the election policy, which was seven 288 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: reactors being built around Australia. What they want now is 289 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: just for the national band to be lifted and that 290 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: opens up the possibility of putting forward a nuclear plan, 291 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: but it doesn't necessarily commit to public funding or anything 292 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: material in the nuclear space. And the Liberal Party have 293 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: said that that's actually a more liberal approach. It means 294 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: that we get rid of some of that red tape 295 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: that's preventing nuclear power from being used in energy production 296 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: in Australia. Okay, so they got through those four policies. 297 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: That's another tick just enterprise. On the other hand, look, 298 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: she's still in the Liberal party room, she's still considered 299 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: a Liberal senator. She's going to be staying with the 300 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: party for now. But you know, one Liberal put it 301 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: to me that it's kind of the elephant in the 302 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: room now if you like. 303 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 4: Okay, so it feels like there's been a lot of 304 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 4: self reflection on both sides over recent days, compromise, widespread 305 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 4: discussions about how to resolve this issue. Clearly from both sides, 306 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 4: we've seen a level of willingness to overcome some sticking points. 307 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 4: So take me through what actually happened yesterday? What did 308 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 4: we learn, What have the party said? How did the 309 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 4: coalition get back together? 310 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: So all the swords were dropped yesterday and we got 311 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: a new sign sealed and secret coalition agreement. It's okay, 312 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: standard convention. We never get to see it. We heard 313 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: from former Prime Minister Malcolm Turbule last week he said 314 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: it's actually a really boring piece of writing. It's just 315 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: a commitment to work together. And as far as I 316 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: understand from some Liberals that I spoke to, there's no 317 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: necessary policy actions attached to the agreement itself. But it's 318 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: pretty much a statement of assurances that we were expecting 319 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: after the election. 320 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 2: Our team is one of strivers and optimists, of leaders 321 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 2: and listeners. We have voices from the city to the bush. 322 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 2: Our parties are at their best when they work together 323 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 2: to fight right now as a strong opposition. 324 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 1: The two leaders also put forward their shadow Ministry, so 325 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: their front bench. So that was confirmed yesterday as well, 326 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: no massive surprises. The Deputy leader of the Liberal Party 327 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: Ted O'Brien, he's going to become the Shadow Treasurer. We 328 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 1: previously interviewed the shadow the former shadow Treasurer, I should 329 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: say now Angus Taylor on this podcast. 330 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 3: Yep. 331 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 1: And he is now going to be the Shadow Defense Minister. 332 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: And on top of that there are a few reshuffles. 333 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 1: Liberal Senator Jane Hume's been demoted from the shadow cabinet, 334 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: as has Sarah Henderson. Another Victorian Liberal Senator. Susan Lee 335 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: also focused on some of the other women that she's 336 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 1: promoted in her cabinet, and this includes Karen Little who 337 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: will now take over as Shadow Indigenous Australians Minister, just 338 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 1: Into Nemorship of Price will become Shadow Defense Industry Minister, 339 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 1: and Giselle cap Terrian who's one of the MP's who's 340 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 1: still waiting on that count a month on quite a 341 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: grueling count that at last check was about eight votes 342 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: separating her and. 343 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 3: The city Bradfields in Sydney. 344 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 1: In Bradfield, so the candidate trailing her, Nicolette Buller, is 345 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: only behind by eight votes. So that's quite a tight 346 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: margin by anyone's stretch of imagination. So she's been appointed 347 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: as an assistant minister in the. 348 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 4: Meantime, pending that confirmation that she has succeeded in Bradfield. 349 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: That's right. And also the re elected MP Tim Wilson, 350 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: who is all so subject to a recount in his 351 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 1: seat of Goldstein, has also been promoted into the shadow 352 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: cabinet should he hold onto his seat. But the projections 353 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: in Goldstein look a bit more promising for Tim Wilson 354 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: at this stage. 355 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 3: Okay. 356 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 4: And what about David Little, Proud National's leader. He's had 357 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 4: quite the post election run himself, surviving a leadership challenge. 358 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 4: He was the face of this breakup. I suppose he 359 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 4: did the initial dumping. What has he had to say 360 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 4: now that the coalition seems to have reached an agreement. 361 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: So he has focused on wanting to oppose Labor as 362 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: a strong opposition. 363 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 5: This morning our party room made the decision to rejoin 364 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 5: the coalition, and I think the Liberal Party and the 365 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 5: leadership of Susan in getting that position to make sure 366 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 5: there's understanding about the way forward. That's important for Australians 367 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 5: that they know we've laid the foundation stones of a 368 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 5: coalition that can move forward but also have an alternative 369 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 5: government in three years. 370 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: He has said in the past week as well that 371 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: he wants to see Susan Lee as the next Prime 372 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: Minister too, So he wants to focus on putting forward 373 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: a unified front against an increased Labor majority. And let's 374 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: not forget that Labor appears to be in a stronger 375 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: position than it has been in a very long time. 376 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: It has an increased majority in the lower House. In 377 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: the Senate, it only needs to negotiate with either the 378 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: Greens or the Coalition to get legislation through. It was 379 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: a little bit more complicated in the last term of Parliament, 380 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 1: but their representation has gone up across all boards. So 381 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: having a unified opposition, according to David little Proud, is 382 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: really important. If not to give Labor it's you know, 383 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: blank check to do whatever it likes. 384 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 4: I think that might tie into my next question Harry, 385 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 4: before we wrap up. I know we've made a lot 386 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 4: of jokes about this breakup. You know, it's been the 387 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 4: subject of memes and internet speculation and we've all kind 388 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 4: of rolled our eyes a little bit at those metaphors, 389 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 4: But can you just remind us, you know, other than 390 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,479 Speaker 4: it being a big political story, and aside from the jokes, 391 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 4: why should we care about a story like this, What 392 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 4: is really the significance of this moment? 393 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: In order to have a healthy democracy thrive, you need 394 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: to have checks and balances in the actual parliament itself. 395 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: We have what's known as question time. That's a chance 396 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: for the opposition to hold the government to account and 397 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: ask them very detailed questions, very specific questions about certain 398 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: policy areas, about certain legislation that they might be putting forward. 399 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: We also have an opposition with these kind of resources 400 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: because they have the experience and the insight to actually 401 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: know what to look for as well. I mean, journalists 402 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: can only do so much. And we're not on the 403 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: floor of Parliament either. We can't be asking the government 404 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: questions when it's carrying out official business, but the opposition can. 405 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: Another point I would make is that this also goes 406 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: back to the purpose of having elected representatives. They represent 407 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: their constituents, whether that's senator you represent a state or territory, 408 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: or a Lower House MP you represent a certain area 409 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: in Australia, and it's been set of previous governments, that 410 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: they've been too inwardly focused, that they've only focused on 411 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: each other and these internal battles. Think of the Rudd 412 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: Gillard Rudd years. That was all that was really spoken 413 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: of for years was just these internal leadership contests. So 414 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: I think the public really do switch off, and the 415 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 1: public really do want to know that their elected representatives 416 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: are doing a job and being part of important decision 417 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,479 Speaker 1: making processes that ultimately affect all our lives. And I 418 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: know that's a really lofty and grand statement, but without 419 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: an effective opposition, you can't have an effective government. 420 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 4: I mean, it's really important perspective for all of us 421 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 4: who can get lost in these headlines. Harry, thank you 422 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 4: so much for taking us through all of that. We 423 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 4: are so lucky to have your political expertise. 424 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: I personally have you Tom. 425 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 4: I will be interested to see from here, you know, 426 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 4: how public sentiment shifts towards or away from the coalition. 427 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 4: I suppose voters will have their say in another three years. 428 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: Time, well we even remember this happened. I suppose we will. 429 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: But will voters remember That'll be a really interesting point. 430 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 431 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Harry, and thank you for listening. 432 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 4: To today's podcast. That's all we've got time for, but 433 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 4: we will be back later on this afternoon with your 434 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 4: evening headlines. Until then, have a great day. 435 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 6: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 436 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 6: Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 437 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 6: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 438 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 6: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 439 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 6: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 440 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 6: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.