WEBVTT - Dirty pages 📖 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:10.720 What if one of your closest friends or your most 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.720 trusted work colleagues actually had a secret side to them 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:14.800 that you weren't aware of. 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:17.119 Well, it's more common than you think. 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:20.160 Hello, I'm Art Simone and I'm on a quest to 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.520 uncover the interesting sides that ordinary looking people keep hidden, 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:24.960 because what's. 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:26.639 The fun of hiding it? Let's get it out of 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:28.240 the shadows and celebrate it. 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:30.800 The tricky thing is I don't know who I will 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.839 be speaking to or what they're concealing from us. I'll 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:36.480 get to know them, ask three questions, and from there 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:40.000 I'm confident we can figure it out together. Welcome to 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.640 conceal it with me, Art Simone, Our guest is here. 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:44.680 Roll the time. 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:47.640 Hi. 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:50.320 I'm John, I'm fifty. I used to live in Sydney, 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:52.360 but now I live in the UK. I've been a 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.800 writer for thirty years. I'm married, I have two step children. 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:58.520 I like traveling and I like reading a lot, and 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:01.640 I mean a lot. I don't think Art will guess 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:05.399 what I'm concealing, because I even managed to conceal it 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:10.240 from my best friends. 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:13.360 Hello, John, how are you going very well? 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:13.840 How are you? 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.160 I'm doing very well, So we've never met before. This 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:21.440 is very twenty twenty. We are meeting through the wonders 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:23.800 of technology. I'm talking to you all the way in 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:25.720 the United Kingdom. Now, how long have you been in 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:26.080 the UK? 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:28.039 For three years? Oh? 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:32.560 Okay, okay, fairly recent then, yeah, okay, three years? Am 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:34.600 I alowed to ask you what brought you to the UK? 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.560 Or is that delve into your concealingness? 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:39.800 No? No, I can be very open about that. 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:43.399 I caught a plane, you bitch. 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:49.000 All right, Okay, so a plane brought you to the UK. 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:49.840 Good for you. 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.320 For me lived in Sydney. I won't hold that against you, 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:53.559 but I'm glad you got out. 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:54.120 Sorry. 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.720 I love Sydney everyone, and I love every place in 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:59.200 the world. It's my favorite. I'm looking at you through 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:02.360 this beautiful screen at the moment. You've got glasses, you've 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:04.520 got a bit of a stubble, bit of bed, wearing 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:05.600 a nice tablecloth. 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:06.440 Sorry, I mean shirt. 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:11.520 It's wonderful, you know, just look like everyday, wonderful, pixelated 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:15.040 person in front of me. I'm going to ask you 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:19.680 three questions. So question number one, John, what was your 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.040 favorite subject in school? 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.680 Oh? That's as tough one. I wasn't very good at school. 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.600 I wasn't a very good student at all. I think 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:36.440 probably i'd have to go with biology, maybe, I mean, yeah, biology, 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:38.880 how we tick, why we work, that sort of thing. 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.040 Oh, I just think of biology and cutting up rats. 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:43.120 But I know, I mean that could work too. And 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:46.160 you're saying earlier that you love reading. Yeah, and you're 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:49.560 a writer. I wasn't very good at English, and you're 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:49.919 a writer. 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:50.920 Now I know. 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:52.519 It's bizarre, amazing. 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:55.960 Now anything can happen, Anything can happen, dreams can come true, guys. 0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:00.800 Question number two, do you have a favorite superhero? 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:01.960 I do, but. 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:05.040 It's so boring. It's Superman. I mean it's I mean, 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:07.560 he's got to be the most boring superhero you can have. 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:10.160 He's pretty much indestructible. 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:11.480 Why do you like him? 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:14.680 I like the inevitability of him, I do. I do 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:15.080 like that. 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:18.240 I like the complication of the dual life, but I 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:22.160 do like the inevitability of his power is strength never. 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:27.680 I can't even write that word inevertability. He never yes 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:28.320 that word? 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:33.080 Okay, biology Superman, I can't piecing it together. A Question 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:34.720 number three, and the final question I have for you 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.160 is who is your favorite musical artist. 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:44.880 Well, I've gone through three major crushes through my youth 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:48.520 for music, and the first was Kiss, and the second 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.640 was Culture Club and the third was Bowie. So there 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:53.400 was a kind of a theme running through them. 0:03:53.600 --> 0:04:02.800 Yeah, flamboyance, costumes, makeup, excitement, right right, right, Okay, Okay, 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:07.600 so we like Kiss, we like kissing rebellion in school. 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:12.080 Good guys, superhero, This is really hard today. Normally there's 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:15.200 like little hints in there, this is okay. And you're 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:19.520 in the UK and you're a rider and you're okay, 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:22.720 and you've hitden it you said, even your best friends 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.920 you've hitden it from Oh my god, this is chaos. Makeup, 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.200 all right, I'm going to stick with the makeup alright 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:30.960 because I like makeup, right, and I'm going towards makeup. 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:35.280 You like biology. I'm going to say you invented makeup. 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.440 I've just woked that you invented makeup. You've been time 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.960 traveling and you are the inventor of makeup because you 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.160 like the people that wear it in the music's And 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.640 you know Clark Kent, he dresses up, but he also, 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.599 like you know, has his kryptonite, and you know, you 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.520 like biology. So that's like almost like putting things together. 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:56.400 You invented makeup? Am I right? 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.200 Yes, I'm one hundred and eighty five years old and 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:01.000 my makeup is extraordinarily good. 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.000 Sarcastic, I'm writing that down. 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:12.000 Okay, you know me as John, but actually un Natasha Walker. 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:16.239 Under the pseudonym Natasha Walker, I published three erotic novels, 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.240 The Secret Lives of Emma Beginnings, The Secret Lives of 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:23.400 Emma Distractions, The Secret Lives of Emma Unmasked. They went 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.080 on to sell sixty thousand copies in Australia. 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:29.120 What how many hats are we wearing today? 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:32.800 You've actually got a real double life here. 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:33.839 Oh my god. 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.520 All right, so we've just found out that no, John 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:41.840 is not the inventor of makeup, which is a real 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:43.440 shame because I thought it could give me a discount. 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:47.159 But he is instead a writer who writes erotic novels 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:49.440 under the name of a lady. 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.200 He's got a he's got his own drag name. I'm 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:53.840 so confused. 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:56.520 Also, how many kilometric pens is he used to write 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:58.360 these books? You must go through a lot of pins. 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:12.880 I needs me all right. 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:14.480 So we've just met John, but we found out that 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:18.040 John is also Natasha Walker. He was sickly writing erotic 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:21.320 novels under that female pen name. Oh my god, it's 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:24.039 so exciting. There's so many hats here. How did this start? 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:26.200 How did this happen? Did you just wake up one 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:28.640 day and decide today I am Natasha Walker? 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:29.640 What happened? 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:33.080 Well, what happened was that I was a writer who 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:37.840 was getting absolutely nowhere with my work. I had an agent, 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:39.520 I landed an agent. I was like, yeah, I'm going 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.120 to get somewhere now. But nothing happened. But I had 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:46.440 written quite a lot of very rude stories many years before, 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.240 and my agent was asking around, going, please, have you 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:51.920 got anything else, anything else you can show me because 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:53.760 the book you've given me I love, but I can't 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:56.040 find a publisher for right And so I gave her 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.200 these pages. She came back to me saying, you just 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:01.560 cannot know. No one should see these pages. These are 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.520 just filth. You'll be carted off to jail for these pages. 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:06.200 It's like, what is this muck? 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:08.960 Exactly what I think in my pigeon hole right now, 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:10.440 you filthy man. 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:14.040 So I took them away, but about a week later, 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:16.440 on the front page of the Sydney Morning Herald was 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.680 the story about fifty Shades of Gray, Yes, bursting onto 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.960 the scene and having this enormous publishing contract with Random House, 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:25.960 and suddenly the world went paorn crazy. 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:30.200 So there I was with a big. 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.800 Pile of pawn and my agent ran off to every 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:36.440 publisher in town and they snapped it up. 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.239 You said, you like fifty Shades of Gray vibe ha. 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:43.800 So what made you write all this erotic fiction in 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:44.520 the first place. 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.480 It was a kind of competitive spirit. My girlfriend at 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.120 the time was working this really dull job and one 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.160 of the girls that was working with her, her boyfriend, 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:57.480 was writing these erotic stories and sending them in and 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:00.160 so all the girls were reading them, and I was 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:04.360 I was kind of jealous. Really Enviously, these incredible power 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.800 over this room of girls, and so I wrote my own. 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.600 The problem was that they were very critical that you've 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:13.000 got a whole lot of girls in the room and 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.040 it's like a reading group, isn't it. And so they 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.040 sent back my work with red marks all the way 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.800 through it and critiqued it and ripped me to shreds. Really, 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:24.040 it was a very tough lesson to learn that I 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:28.000 could not write erotica. And so from then on, of course, 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.960 the competitive spirit kicked in and I tried to perfect 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:31.360 my art. 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:35.800 So you're like, all right, you've been your homework's been 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.160 handed back to you. They said, absolutely not fix this, 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.839 This would never happen. So in these books, you're writing 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:45.960 from a female's perspective as Emma, but you're also writing 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:50.080 from Emma's perspective as Natasha Walker. Why make it so complicated? 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:51.960 Why did you create Natasha Walker? 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.120 Yeah, So one of the things that happened when I've 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.640 got the book contract was that it was a really 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:02.480 women led movement. Fifty Shades of Gray. They weren't aimed 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:04.600 at men like a most erotica in the history of 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:08.280 writing has been aimed at men. This was squarely aimed 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:12.480 at women. And so the publisher really wanted to publish 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:14.400 me as as a woman. They thought it would be 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:18.280 much much better for sales and for everything. Really, so 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:20.559 we count with a Natasha Walker and use that as 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:24.200 my pseudonym, and it did changed the way people read 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:26.360 the books. People will pick up a book by a 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:27.679 woman and read in one way, and pick up a 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:29.679 book by a man and read in another way. The 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:34.560 only problem with my stories was that my Emma very 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.720 different to fifty Shades. The heroine in that is an 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.240 eighteen year old virgin who was seduced by a billionaire. 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:42.480 By life story, Actually. 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.240 Emma, Emma is a thirty year old married woman who 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.920 seduces an eighteen year old neighbor next door. 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:54.439 Oh, she's the girl next door. Did not all with 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:55.520 the boy next door? 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:56.560 Yeah? 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.440 I mean in the first Emma book there was one 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:01.200 hundred page sex scene. 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:07.600 One hundred pages. Jesus Christ, I can't even last that long. 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.720 Oh my god, there'd be like a four part series. 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:11.600 Jeez. 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:14.200 How many descriptive words do you have to use in 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.920 one hundred page sex scene? Or is it just so 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:20.320 descriptive as like and then he took off his sock, 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:23.160 and then he took off the other one, and then 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:26.400 then he just stood there for a bit and looked 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.720 at her, and she was just having a good time. 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:30.760 And then anyway, Actually, I think I could write a 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.199 hundred page It would be very good, wouldn't be engaging, 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:35.439 but you wouldn't see what's coming. There's always surprise in 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:40.480 the bedroom with me. So you are writing as Natasha 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.400 but also as Emma. But also you were John, this 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:46.240 is hats on. Hats on hats sometimes and I put 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:48.120 makeup on, I'm like, wait, who am I today? 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.440 What's going on? What's my tone of voice? Who are you? 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.600 But how do you even like get yourself in that mindset? 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:56.040 Or do you just write everything like yeah, I'm writing 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:57.640 this job. It would just slap another name on it. 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:02.000 Pretty much my whole writing life is so far has 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:04.640 been writing from the point of view of a woman. 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:07.920 I don't know whether that's just that's just how naturally 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:10.920 whenever I have a character in my head, it's generally 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:14.400 the strongest character that I'm dealing with is a female character. 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.480 And so far I've written, I've published five novels, and 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:20.280 all five novels have a strong female lead. 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.720 So basically, you're kind of a drag queen. I'm putting 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:25.440 it out there. You're kind of a drag queen. 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:29.000 Just you don't look like one, but you're still kind 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:29.800 of getting in drag. 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:34.680 Mentally, I'm probably just a drag queen. So have you 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:36.640 ever tried drag? I have to ask you, Well, I'm 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:37.199 wearing it now. 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:37.960 This is this is my. 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.000 Restaurant tablecloth, as you referred to it earlier. 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:43.600 Yes, very pizza. 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:48.360 Hut, it's beautiful now okay. When they sat down, they said, oh, 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.440 do you want to try, you know, like going under 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:52.600 a pseudonym, you know, a female name. 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.320 What was your reaction? Were you like, oh, it's fine, 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:57.480 or were you like, I don't know. 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:01.000 I first wrote my first novel when I was twenty one, 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.200 and Natasha Walker happened when I was forty, So I 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.600 was desperate to get published, to see my name on 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.079 the front of a book. In one sense, I was 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:13.760 dying inside because all I wanted was my name on 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:15.240 the front of a book, and I wasn't going to 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:16.400 have my name on the front of the book. 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:17.400 But on the other. 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:21.960 Side, my professional life was booming at the time, and 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.360 I thought it probably best not to be known as 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.840 the porn guy at the same time, so having a 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.560 pseudonym might be might actually work for me. 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:32.400 So just your agent knew? 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.000 Who knew that when you were like in the closet, 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:37.119 essentially in the library. 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:41.160 My parents knew, my wife knew. Before I even signed 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:42.960 the contract, I kind of went up to my boss 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:45.160 at the time and said, I don't want to bring 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:50.280 the company's name into disrepute. By my behavior outside of work. 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.599 But I've done this thing and they want me to 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.600 publish it, and I'm going to use a pseudonym to 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:58.680 protect myself and my family and the business. And they're like, 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.200 you know, can I do this? And he just laughed. 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.319 He loved it. He thought it was the best idea ever. 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:07.880 So that my boss knew, my family knew pretty much. 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.040 So I had to live this lie day in day out. 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:13.960 Oh it's tough for you, isn't it. 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.679 You walk past the bookshop and you know there's a 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.880 Natasha Walker and you say to the person, she. 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.280 Must be a cool chick. She just be pretty cool. 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.520 But I totally get it because I'm a fool, like, 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.880 you know, narcissist. But I've managed to just live through 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.400 my drag name. But it could be really hard. You 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.920 spent your whole life being wanting to be published writer 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:36.720 and then you know your name is it on the book? 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.960 But maybe just an idea, you could legally change your 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:40.640 names to Natasha. 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:42.080 What do you think I think I should by? 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:45.760 Now? I was interviewing writers at the time too, so 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.560 I was interviewing her best selling authors, and I just 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.600 wanted to scream at them saying I'm a writer too. 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:53.079 Guys. 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.880 Take me seriously, Come on, guys, I've got a book 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:59.160 two it's really popular. They were like, yeah, all right, 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:01.920 like you, Kasha, Yeah, what's that like? Have you ever 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:03.880 told someone to like prove it? 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:06.719 Prove it? You be like, oh, I'll write something now, 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:07.280 I don't know what. 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:09.080 Yeah. 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.120 I had a few encounters where people just laughed. They 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.240 just laughed so much and they thought it was funny 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.160 and they had no sense of it being true. And 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.040 it was a few days later that count to me 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:23.280 and going, wait, it was true what you were saying. 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:26.560 After you go and tell them, do they go and 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:28.240 have a little read? Do they let you know? 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.680 Most people, thankfully, people I know well decided for their 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.640 mental health, not to which I think is good. I'm pleased. 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.840 I remember a friend of mine gave it to his 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.480 mum and she devoured them. That was awkward. 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:44.760 I would love you to like hand the books to 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:48.120 someone without saying anything like did you like it? Like, 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.560 oh yeah, that Natasha Walker. She's a dirty bitch and 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:56.760 you well surprise trick jar, trick chair. I'm tashi now 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.760 with Natasha Walker? How did you pick this name? Where'd 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:01.360 it come? From, you know, because there's a lot of 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.320 ways you can pick a name. Did you live in 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:05.680 Walker Street and your first pet was called Natasha? 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:08.440 What I wanted was because the title was strong, it 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.680 was Secret Lives of Emma, and I really wanted a 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.320 dull name. So the name wasn't the thing. It was 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:16.600 just the title of the book was the thing. And 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.600 I created a spreadsheet of boring names and made a 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.320 list of them. 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.080 I just want to say, if Natasha Walker, a real 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:29.320 life Natasha Walker is listening right now, we love your name. 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:33.520 And it's very special, Okay, very special. It's really unique. Okay, 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.960 if you're out there, Natasha. 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:37.640 Okay. 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.080 So people didn't know who Natasha was. They couldn't see 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.160 her face, they didn't know what she looked like, they 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.480 hadn't spoken to her. Was there ever a bit of 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:47.800 a witch hunt of people trying to work it out 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.400 and be like, you know, fool like me right now? 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.640 Many people actually guess correctly, unlike me. 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:56.880 Within the book community. Definitely, because I was working in 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:59.400 the book industry at the time, because it's very small 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.800 industry really, and the number of writers who know each 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.960 other and people were there were suggestions because it was 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.120 set in Mossman. The bookshop in Mossman was rife with 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:13.200 accusations that they were writing it someone they knew, and 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.760 so there was a lot of speculation around, and the 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.080 publisher really wanted to keep it that it was a 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:22.160 woman who wrote it, and so there was kind of 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.080 a little bit of pressure on me to keep it secret. 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:26.480 I had people come up to me. 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.600 One person't come up to me at a dinner and 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.840 pretty much declared that I was Natasha Walker to the 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.160 group that I was standing in, and I pretty much 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:38.520 had to say, under, there's no chance that I had 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.080 any time to write. Everyone knew that I was very 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.040 busy at the time. Their business I was involved with 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.760 was booming at the time, and I was taking on 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:50.080 more and more work, so it seemed plausible that I 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.400 had no time to write this kind of smut. So 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:54.360 I was able to back out of that one. But 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:58.160 there were twitter conversations in front of me, and conversations 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.800 that I was a part of where I couldn't join 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:02.800 in really because all I wanted to do is go, 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.399 it's me, and I couldn't do that. 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:11.120 It's me, guys, I'm a treasure. 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.600 And then what happens when you know someone wants to 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.879 interview Natasha about a fabulous book, like You're like, no 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.080 phone interviews, no phone interviews. Do you put a voice 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.720 changer on or can you do a very convincing lady voice. 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.120 That was the worst part of it. I mean I did. 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:32.320 I absolutely considered some dark room interviews with me and 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:37.920 drag with wonderful silhouettes. I didn't say no, I said 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:42.000 I'd think about it. It was difficult because there's so 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.760 much promotion needs to be done for these books at 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:48.359 the time, and I think things would have gone even 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.800 better if I had been able to do interviews. But no, 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.199 because of the pseudonym, it just became text interviews and 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.119 email interviews and that was really all I could do, 0:17:58.160 --> 0:17:59.480 which was a real bummer. 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.679 Just go so so my phone credits run out, goers 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:06.000 I can't call, but you know, maybe just you know, 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:06.879 send me a letter. 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:08.239 I'll write a letter back to you. 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.800 When did you decide to finally like start telling people 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.800 because it was a secret, it sold lots of books. 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:18.720 You said, yeah, I reckon I could come clean that 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:20.800 I John M. 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:21.520 Natasha. 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.240 Well, publishing is a very much a rollercoaster, and I 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:29.320 enjoyed an incredible high, and everyone in the industry could 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.560 see that the low was coming. There was a rush 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.240 for porn. Every woman on the planet was reading porn 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:39.159 openly on buses and on trains, and suddenly it was 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.600 as if no one had ever read porn before, and 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:45.040 that reading porn was just publicly unacceptable, and so the 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.120 market just dropped and fell out. So I saw the end. 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:51.639 I saw the end coming, and so I decided to 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.240 reveal that it was me and get a little tiny 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.240 bit of a pat in the back before it all 0:18:57.240 --> 0:19:00.600 disappeared and disappeared forever. And I got a little of 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:04.199 a spike in sales because the Woman's Weekly ran a 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:08.159 story about how this dude was writing all this women's pawn. 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.840 And I got on TV because I was this mysterious 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:15.040 man behind this mysterious writer called Natasha Walker. 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:18.800 A narcissist comes out, baby, it's what we like. I 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:22.359 knew there was one in there like me. Oh, he said, 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:24.159 I need to be on TV too. 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.720 Fuck you, Natasha, Fuck you. It's not about you anymore. 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:28.720 It's me. It's me. 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:31.280 So does that mean you have you stopped? Is there 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.360 no moditor Natasha Walker? No more dirty pages? 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:35.360 Yeah? 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.880 Well, efficiently, there's no more dirty pages. I dropped Natasha 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.960