1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: We're going to head across right now to Master Builders 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: and CEO Dave Malone. Good morning to. 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 2: You, Dave, Morning Katie, Dave. 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: Have you had any good news this morning, any any 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: of those questions from your industry's perspective being answered by 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: the department. 7 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 2: I think at one level they have been. You know, 8 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 2: there's certainly more information today than what we had yesterday. 9 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 2: The truth of the matter, though, is, particularly for construction businesses, 10 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 2: they have a base, but then they're out working all 11 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 2: over town and all over communities, and each place potentially 12 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 2: is different. So by default we almost end up with 13 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 2: a manatory vaccination obligation on all of construction businesses, and 14 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,319 Speaker 2: that's going to be a challenge for us. 15 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and I know that it's going to be 16 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: a challenge for a lot of industries. But when you 17 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: put it like that and talk about the fact that 18 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: you know that you've got different people who are quite mobile, 19 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: it does make you realize that it's going to be 20 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: a tough one in some circumstances for building and construction. 21 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: Talk us through some of the different issues that you 22 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: really need that clarification on from the Northern Territory government. 23 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 2: Well, what we really wanted the government to do was 24 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 2: provide certainty around the issues when people choose not to 25 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 2: get vaccinated and where the business can take steps to 26 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 2: deal with those particular issues. We could have put more 27 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 2: information out from the start, which would have taken heat 28 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 2: out of those relationships, and if we'd taken heat out 29 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 2: of it, then a lot more people would have worked 30 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: towards a constructive solution. But where we are now is 31 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 2: that a significant part of our industry they've dug in. 32 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 2: They didn't like the fact that they were being told 33 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 2: to do something, and so just as we've seen with 34 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: a little bit of civil disobedience at the front of 35 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: Parliament House, we're getting something similar from many employees who 36 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: they're saying to their employer, do what you want, but 37 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 2: I'm not getting vaccinated. 38 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: Right and so how are they going to then manage that? 39 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: That is going to be the sixty four dollars? You know, 40 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 2: we surveyed our members over the last few days and 41 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 2: only fifteen percent have a fully vaccinated business. So you know, 42 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 2: more than forty five percent of businesses say that they've 43 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 2: got more than twenty percent of their employees are unvaccinated 44 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 2: right now, And what we should have been doing was 45 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 2: taking a heat out of this conversation as much as 46 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 2: possible and putting as much information into people's hands. As 47 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 2: I've been saying many times, businesses don't need to get vaccinated. 48 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 2: People do. And so we should have been providing information 49 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 2: to one hundred thousand people who work in the private 50 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 2: sector and saying this is how it's going to work, 51 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 2: and this is your obligations and these are your rights. 52 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: So Dove, just talk us through those numbers again with 53 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 1: that survey. 54 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 2: So the survey was we went out and said, tell 55 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: us about your workforce, and and so fifteen percent of 56 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: those businesses said that they were one hundred percent vaccinated, 57 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 2: which is great, but forty five percent said that they 58 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 2: had more and twenty percent of their workforce who are unvaccinated. 59 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,679 Speaker 2: Right now, now, fingers crossed, people move forward and take 60 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 2: up the you know, the opportunity to get vaccinated. We 61 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 2: all want that to happen, but we're heading towards a 62 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 2: real challenge. On twelve November, you spot on. 63 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: I mean when you look at that twenty percent, so 64 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: forty five percent of those businesses saying more than twenty 65 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,399 Speaker 1: percent of their stuff unvaccinated right now, I mean, if 66 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: that doesn't improve and we get to that DOE date, 67 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: that's going to be a massive thing for the building 68 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: and construction industry. 69 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 2: It could be you know, I've got my fingers crossed 70 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: that the heat comes out of this issue. That you know, 71 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: when people get to settle down a bit, they understand 72 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 2: that the vaccination is better for them and that they 73 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: move forward. But because of the way things unfolded, people 74 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 2: have really dug in and we didn't have to do 75 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 2: it that way. You know, you look at West Australia 76 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: and they've announced the mandatory vaccination obligation as well, but 77 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: they've set up industry roundtables to work through it and 78 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 2: to you to try and provide as much information as 79 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 2: possible to people. We didn't do that, and that meant 80 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 2: some people took great offense set the way it was done. 81 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, Dave, how are things progressing in terms of the industry, 82 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: your industry being able to get a meeting with the 83 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: Chief Minister or get a meeting with the government minister 84 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: in order to really try to get some of this 85 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: stuff nuted out. 86 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,799 Speaker 2: Well, we were one of those organizations that was happy 87 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: for our delegation to talk with the Chief yep. So 88 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 2: you know, Greg, as he mentioned on radio just before, 89 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 2: he's been leading that charge and we were happy for 90 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: that to happen. What we wanted was the ability to interact, 91 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: to identify where the risks were, and to put good 92 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 2: quality advice out into the community. Businesses need certainty, and 93 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 2: you know, you know, we see the media about wool 94 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 2: words and coals making decisions and consist making decisions, but 95 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 2: they're very different from Mum and dad contractors who might 96 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 2: you know as well as being the managing director or 97 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 2: the carpenter and the plumb or the carpenter and the 98 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 2: purchasing officer. They need more help to get across the 99 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 2: line on these issues. 100 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: And what are some of the worries that you know 101 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,239 Speaker 1: that some of those businesses are telling you right now? 102 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: I know that you know. Something that was raised with 103 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: us earlier in the week was if if somebody comes 104 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: to work and they've chosen not to be vaccinated, like, 105 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: is it then up to the employer to be calling 106 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: the police? Do we have any clarification on things like that? 107 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 2: Well, I hope it never happens, but no we don't. 108 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: And if you have a look at the guidance material, 109 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: It says that employers need to familiar familiarize themselves with 110 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 2: the Work Health Act and the Fair Work Act, and 111 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 2: as people have had a look at those acts, they're 112 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: not the easiest things in the world to get across. 113 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 2: So we need to provide further support. And even the 114 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 2: question and answers that have come out today, you know, 115 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 2: still leave all that stuff hanging. So that's the issue 116 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: is we should be thinking about those little businesses and 117 00:05:58,480 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 2: how we can help them. Well. 118 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 1: Oh and even as you and I are talking, you know, 119 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: we've got Joe who's message through and she said, good morning, 120 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: Katie listening. She was listening to the chamber and to 121 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: the other peak bodies and saying receiving information from their questions. 122 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: Is the information then going to be available to other 123 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: businesses and employees. Where can we access some of this information. 124 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: It's not as simple as the Health Minister had made 125 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: it out to be. We need these questions answered urgently. 126 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: So you know, I know that there's a lot of 127 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: people out there that still have a lot of questions 128 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: and they want to make sure that they're doing the 129 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: right thing. 130 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 2: Absolutely. You know, if you end up in an unfair 131 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 2: dismissal case of any kind. It's a pretty expensive thing 132 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 2: for a small business, and you might win the case 133 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, but you've still paid 134 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 2: your lawyer a lot of money. And so these firms 135 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,239 Speaker 2: just don't want to take on those sort of risks. 136 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 2: They need more certainty. And I'm not saying you can 137 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: provide absolute certainty to anybody. I mean, life isn't like that. 138 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 2: But we could have done more than what we did. 139 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: We didn't. 140 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 2: Even when we made the announcement about needing to check 141 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 2: people's vaccines, we didn't provide them with a way of 142 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 2: recording that information. For example. They all had to work 143 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: it out for themselves. And just imagine how much easier 144 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 2: it would have been for me if there'd been a 145 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 2: schedule that they could just use and we just use 146 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 2: one template right across the business community for example. 147 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, Dave, from your perspective as the head of 148 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: Master Builders here in the Northern Territory, like where to 149 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: from here when it comes to you know, to making 150 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: sure that the industry is informed and that some of 151 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: that information is actually provided by the government. 152 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: So we'll do everything in our power to get information 153 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 2: out to the industry, you know, through all the channels 154 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 2: that we have, and I know every other industry group 155 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 2: is doing exactly the same thing, so that covers a 156 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: large part of the community. I'm hopeful that as we 157 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 2: move forward that when the delegation gets to meet with 158 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 2: the Chief, we start to develop some of the tools 159 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: and templates that small business can use and we get 160 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: to the twelfth of November with the best possible result 161 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 2: in terms of vaccidented territoriums. 162 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: Dave. One of the other questions that I've been asking 163 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: over the last couple of days, following on from Anastasia 164 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: Palachet obviously the Premiere of Queensland making the announcement that 165 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: from December seventeen they are indeed going to be allowing 166 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: people into the state from other parts of Australia. All 167 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: they'll need is a negative rapid antigen test within the 168 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: seventy two hours before entering. Do we need a date 169 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: here in the territory to find out exactly when we're 170 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: going to be moving down this path. 171 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: Catie, certainty is always good for business. We must have 172 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 2: talked about that many times before, so absolutely, and you know, 173 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: I know it's difficult for the authorities. They need to 174 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 2: balance a lot of different things. But you know, it's 175 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 2: very hard as a business to make decisions going forward 176 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 2: if you don't have certainty. And you know these decisions 177 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,239 Speaker 2: that we've seen from New South Wales, Victoria and now Queensland, 178 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: you know they start to give their industry certainty and 179 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: they get ahead of the game on us. 180 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, spot on. I think we all just need 181 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: to know exactly where we're going, whether we like the 182 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: answer or not. You do need that certainty. But but yeah, 183 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,719 Speaker 1: it helps when you've got a bit of a date 184 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: or a bit of a roadmap. Dave Malone, it's always 185 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: good to catch up with you. We appreciate your time 186 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: this morning. 187 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 2: Thanks Cotie, thank you.