WEBVTT - 04: Love and Other Bruises 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:06.480 This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:11.840 urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline on 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:19.040 thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen or visit them at 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:29.440 lifeline dot org dot AU. A twenty four year old 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:38.960 devoted mother of two fleeing a violent relationship. As bags 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:45.280 pack car running, her daughters strapped into the backseat. 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.120 Mom told me that she needed to go back inside 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:49.920 to grab something. 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:50.720 Panic. 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.320 I Amy is dead, Sir aim his dead? 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:57.120 Eight confusion about five minutes, say sit not to suicide. 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:57.920 One hundred percent. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:03.480 This is emersing. What do you think is really the 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:05.400 honest truth about Amy? 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:08.680 The Truth About Amy? 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:22.200 Episode four, I'm Liam Bartlett. 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.240 And I'm Alison's Andy. 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:32.960 Amy sits on the end of her bed, brushing her 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:37.039 daughter's hair as they sing along to Taylor Swift Go Sing. 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:50.880 Amy knows her partner, David Simmons will be home any 0:01:50.920 --> 0:02:08.680 minute now. Amy's smile fails. There are a lot of 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:17.120 home movies with Amy and her daughter's good job, including 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:26.600 Naya's second birthday party, excursions and activities explorer like painting 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:28.360 with watercolors in the park. 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:29.799 Hey Hi. 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.200 And family get togethers now. 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:34.720 I am. 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:40.280 Most of these don't include David, but when he is 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:48.480 in the frame, Amy certainly appears less comfortable. Fair to say, 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:53.680 her closest friends were completely aware of her problems with David. 0:02:55.880 --> 0:03:00.160 It was a rollercoaster on and off, up and down. 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.480 I think every relationship has their troubles, but theirs was 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:04.959 more bad than good. 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.600 Eron Gower met Amy in high school. The pair had 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:13.600 children around the same age and trusted each other implicitly. 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.680 Our long phone calls or just a quick text or. 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:20.040 Aaron says, while they could tell each other anything. She 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:26.519 regrets not being more critical of Amy's relationship with Simmons. 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.160 I just wanted to be more of someone that she 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:33.280 could open up to if she had you know, everyone 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:36.120 wants someone to vent to about their relationship without any judgment. 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:40.080 If she was to complain to her mom or you know, 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.480 one of his family members, they might have tried to 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.680 steer away or make her feel bad for staying or so. 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:48.280 I always just wanted to be that person that she 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:49.560 could openly speak to. 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.280 You tried very hard just to be non judgmental. 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:52.840 Yeah. 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.920 Yeah, I didn't want her to feel, you know, like 0:03:56.000 --> 0:04:00.240 I was pushing her to leave or anything. But when 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.760 the times did come that they were in a down 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.120 place in their relationship, I always offered come and stay 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:11.040 with me, Like I just always tried to open my 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:12.720 door so that she knew that she had somewhere to 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:14.640 come and feel comfortable. 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.200 And during those times, were you secretly hoping that she 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:19.560 would stay away? Oh? 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.200 Yeah, yeah she. I think one time that they were 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:25.800 sort of apart, she started to talk to someone new 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:29.520 and that was exciting, and you know, sort of tried 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:33.359 to coach her and oh, this is fun, and you 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:35.320 know it's so good, and you probably feel regreat and 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.000 all that sort of thing. But then you know, David 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.039 had this way about him and he would sort of 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:44.000 lure her back in and then they were back on 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:45.039 the roller coaster again. 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:48.760 What was it about their relationship that was that was 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:50.880 bad to you as an observer? 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:55.800 I think Amy was She's a really nice person, a 0:04:55.880 --> 0:05:01.680 people pleaser, and I think David was very demanding or controlling. 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:03.920 You know, he had to sort of have his say 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:08.440 in everything, and Amy wasn't really allowed to work, but 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:11.279 prior to him, she had multiple jobs. You know, she 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.560 was sort of really independent and a social butterfly, But yeah, 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:18.360 he sort of made sure that what he wanted was 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:22.280 sort of the path that they led. It was his 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:26.000 choice or you know, they had a nice house in Pinjarra, 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.000 but he didn't really want to work any steady jobs 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:31.960 or anything, so they went and moved in with his dad. 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.280 So it was sort of she didn't really have much 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.640 say in anything. He was the dominant in the relationship. 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.320 Did you directly witness any of that controlling behavior. 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:47.440 I saw him overpower her before physically, Yeah, physically in 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.280 what way. I've always went to her house for playdates. 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.600 You know, our kids were the same age. So one 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:55.719 time when I was at her house, he should have 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.520 been at work, but he came home really early. It 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.760 was before lunchtime. We were just in the lound room 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:03.800 and he sat on the couch next to her, and 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.800 I can't remember what the conversation was or anything, but 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:11.640 Amy was a really small, really little frame. Pretty petite, yeah, 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:15.440 very petite. He grabbed the back of her neck and 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.839 Amy was laughing, like joke, joking around and you know, 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:21.240 trying to play it off as it was okay, but 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:23.320 you could see in her face that she was uncomfortable. 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.360 Grabbed the back of her neck and like pushed her 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.520 head down, so like her head was sort of down 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:34.200 between her knees, and he was like, she laughed it 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:35.560 off like it was nothing, but you could see that 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:38.720 she was uncomfortable, and she's like, oh, leave us alone now, 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:40.600 And you know he went out and did whatever he 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.839 was doing, So there was that, and you know, he 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:47.359 was a big guy and wouldn't have taken much to 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.360 make her get in an uncomfortable posision. 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:52.440 She would have been embarrassed. 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.200 Also, Yeah, yeah, that's why she sort of laughed it 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:58.159 off as a you know, he's playing around or it's okay, 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:00.080 but you could see that it wasn't. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:04.799 And you could tell that it was obviously a forceful 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:05.920 grab around the neck. 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah, No one really wants to be put 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:13.160 into that position of being folded in half. 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:20.200 Liam pulls out a photograph of a woman's neck turned 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:24.080 to the side. Erin had told police about it when 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:26.800 she was finally able to speak to someone, and when 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.920 she followed it up, they said they couldn't find it. 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:35.320 I found it within twenty minutes of getting access to 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:40.920 Amy's iPhone data. There are visible red marks across the neck, 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:46.280 indicating a recent trauma. The image property shows the date 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.120 as Tuesday, the tenth of July twenty twelve, at about 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:51.600 six thirty pm. 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:58.000 Erin, I've got a photograph that I believe Amy said 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:01.520 this to you on via tech? Is that right? 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:03.040 She did send me a photo. 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:08.400 We've got a photograph here that's blown up of a 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:10.480 rather large bruise on Amy's neck. 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:11.640 That is it? 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:13.080 See? 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:14.720 I got told that they didn't find. 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.480 This, The police didn't find it. Yeah, well we did, 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:22.560 and it's on her neck. I mean those sort of 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.280 bruises don't get there just by chance, do they. 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:31.120 This is the first time I've seen it since it happened. 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:32.559 I'm sorry, I didn't mean. 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:33.200 To that's gay. 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:35.000 See. 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:36.959 I tried so hard to make sure that I could 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:40.640 get this available to Anna to back you know, the 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.679 stories of how he treated her. 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:46.480 Well, I would have thought this is clear evidence of 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.760 the domestic violence that was going on, And for her 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.960 to take that photograph and text it on the phone 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.840 means that she was also very worried. Yeah, ye, why 0:08:58.880 --> 0:08:59.680 did she send you that? 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:05.319 She always told me all the bad things that had happened, 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:07.920 you know, when they fought and that sort of stuff. 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:09.560 I mean, was that a cry for help or is 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:11.440 she just saying, look, this should be sort of on 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:11.920 the record. 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:16.480 Maybe both. Maybe I just didn't take it as her 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:22.240 cry for help could have been. But yeah I didn't. 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:24.160 I don't know. I was the same age. I was 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:27.000 young as well, and you know, if I could go 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:31.439 back in time, definitely I would try and help her 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:35.880 get out quicker, knowing you know what was happening. 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:38.520 It's hard, though, it was not when you get between 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:41.559 people in a relationship. Yeah, as you say, I mean, 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.120 it's a difficult thing to do anyway, full stop. 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.600 Yeah, Like Amy didn't want to. She already had one 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.360 father to a child, and now she's got a second 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:56.480 child's dad in the picture, and so she. 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:57.520 Was desperate to make this work. 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:00.560 She wanted to make her family work. Was always on 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:02.880 and off. And you know, she gave him all these chances, 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:04.040 but he just never grew up. 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:06.240 What sort of man does that? 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:06.480 Though? 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:08.840 It too? Yeah, a woman's. 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.360 Name, yep, And like I said, she was tiny. 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.680 One day, Amy sent erin a text about how she 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:20.400 hoped to escape her Bush prison. 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:22.560 Back on Facebook. 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:26.520 Loll erin, I'm so annoyed right now, David rocks up 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.319 at four point thirty am, jumps in bed. I ask 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:31.720 what's wrong. He said he's pissed off because he lost 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:36.320 his phone, Samsung Galaxy S two in Bush, no insurance. 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.920 I say, you're pissed off because you're on drugs. He 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.719 laid there quiet, so I asked him again. He replies, yeah, 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.080 I had a few tokes of crack. By this time, 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.360 my heart is pounding so hard. I see red and 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:53.960 start punching into him. He then man handles me, choking 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.240 me and chucking me around the room. My adrenaline is pumping, 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:00.160 so I didn't feel a thing. I calmed down on 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:02.800 because Tay is now awake. I'm so hurt that he 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:05.000 did drugs after I begged him not to take DEXI. 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:07.880 It fucks me right off. He gives in all the time. 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.880 I'll ring you later and fill you in. He has 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.400 to start work at seven am with his dad, and 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.600 he's not dumb. He will know David has been on drugs. 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:20.199 Useless piece of dirt. He is bloody disgusted in him. 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:25.679 The first time that I got really worried was he 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:29.280 made jokes about if he was ever to do anything 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:33.640 to her, he was ever to kill Amy, He had 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.040 options of what he could do with her body. 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:38.679 What possible context couldn't that have been. 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:43.040 It was the end of one of their kid's birthday party, 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:45.720 so it was just us three sitting out the front 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.680 of the house in Pinjarra. Everyone had left and we're 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:49.400 just hanging out. 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:51.800 Was he drunk, Yeah, he'd been drinking. 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:53.960 Your day, Amy was sort of you know, dealing with 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:55.760 all the party or the guests and the kids and 0:11:55.800 --> 0:12:00.280 all that sort of stuff. And this was the time 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:04.319 that I ever was like, this person's a little bit unhinged. 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:08.240 You don't really joke about what you've thought to do 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.240 about your partner's body if you ever killed them. His 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.200 two options were he could take her out bush, leave 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:17.040 her for the pigs to clean up. Or there was 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:21.760 a quarry that they'd broken into overnight or something in 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.120 the past, and he said he could take her up 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:25.480 the bext no one would find her there. 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.080 So he was putting forward suggestions of what he would 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:30.880 do with her body yep, if he killed her yep. 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:33.240 Or was it a joke? 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:37.679 Well, coming from him, he made it seem like he 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:41.240 was joking. But I certainly don't think that that's something 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.160 you joke about, especially if it sounds like you've thought. 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:44.640 About it before. 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.360 Clearly it stayed in your mind. Oh yeah, yep, so 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:50.160 you must have thought at the time it was it 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:56.960 was most unusual. Yeah, when you first heard how did 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.960 you hear about Amy being shot? 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:05.200 This also has stuck with me. I woke up to 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.960 a text from Nancy that morning and it was something 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:12.880 really simple. Two lines said Aaron Amy's dead. She shot herself. 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:19.640 And I was like, what, like that doesn't this isn't 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:27.360 a funny joke. Oh, so I instantly rang Amy just 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:31.720 to you know, like your mums sent me this stupid 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:36.600 message like wrong, Yeah, and I went I went to voicemails. 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:42.120 I was like, Okay, that's weird. Try again, voicemail again. 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:50.600 And then my next feeling was she didn't do it. 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:55.800 I knew you had to vote to Amy boys to 0:13:55.840 --> 0:14:03.560 her girls. Oh yeah, instantly, like from the beginning, I've 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:07.200 known in my heart that it wasn't suicide. 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.280 So did you ring Nancy then? 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.319 Or I sent her a message and I said I 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:16.040 took some time to you know, like got hit around it, 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:18.079 and then I sent her a message and got her 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.000 to call me. She sort of told me what happened 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:22.760 or what they say has happened. 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.440 Did you express your doubt to her then? 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:25.880 Ye? 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:30.400 Yeah, I've always said to anyone that I've spoke to 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.760 about it that I don't think that she committed suicide. 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.680 She wasn't that sort of person. She didn't speak about suicide. 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:39.720 She loved her girls, and she was just such a 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.040 happy person. Like every time we were together it was 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:47.520 just laughter and like joking and fun and it just 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:49.600 wasn't It wasn't her. 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.560 When was the last time you talked to Amy had 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:55.160 any sort of communication? 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:58.280 Well, like I said, we were always just like you know, 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.480 little texts and stuff here and there. But our last 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:03.800 long conversation was I think the week. 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:07.480 Before, only a week before. Yeah, And was there anything 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.960 in that that anything in her voice that you would 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:12.680 have thought was unusual. 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.400 Or not well, unusual for the good I guess Amy 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:18.440 had a plan. She was so excited so because of 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:23.080 the car accident when she fructured her neck and stuff, 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:29.440 she was seeking compensation for that. She was excited. She 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.920 thought that it was almost finalized, so she was ready 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:37.240 to get her pay out for that, much to David's disappointment, 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.040 because he was upset that he would be the one 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.200 that had to pay for I don't know how those things. 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.640 Work, but well, effectively that was a claim against David, 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:46.760 wasn't it. Yeah, because he was driving. Yeah. 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:47.240 Yeah. 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:49.720 So he didn't want her to do it, obviously, because 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.000 then he would have had to pay this debt. But 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:55.040 she stuck to her guns with this, and she was 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:58.320 excited because it was almost done and she was ready 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:02.800 to get the girls out. She'd started looking for rentals, 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:04.960 you know. She wanted to get a little place for 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.600 her and the girls. And another thing she was really 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.400 excited for was to work. I think she knew someone 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:12.320 that had a cafe or something starting up, and she 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:13.920 wanted to go and work part time. 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:16.160 So she knew there was money on the way, yep, 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.720 and she was making a plan to use that to 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:20.560 improve herself. 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:20.880 Yep. 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:23.640 Yep. She was going to pay a car off, get 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.280 a place, and then set herself up for her and 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:27.960 her girls to go and live by themselves. 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:30.280 But in none of these plans that you've just mentioned 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:33.840 is the notion of David being with her. 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:35.640 She'd had enough. 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.520 She'd had enough, yep. And she told you that in 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.000 very yep certain terms. 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.240 Yep. She was ready to go, and that was. 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:44.280 A week before this happened. 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:52.640 Yeah, Amy had formulated a plan, a plan she was 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:56.120 confident enough in to communicate to erin just one week 0:16:56.240 --> 0:17:00.240 before she died. Everything was in motion, and she was 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:02.960 excited about the prospect of a new life with her 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.160 two young daughters and without David. 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:08.600 Amy. 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:12.680 It also not long before it had happened, she found 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:16.800 out that she was pregnant, so she did not want 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:21.040 any more kids, especially in her state. You know, she's 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:25.359 very fragile. How is she going to be able to 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:29.040 carry a baby nine months and be as fragile as 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.400 she was. David wanted a son, so he was sort 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:35.840 of pushing her, but it didn't take into consideration how she felt, 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:39.359 you know, how she going to physically do this. He 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.000 didn't care. But that was another thing that she sort 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:42.840 of stuck to her guns. 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:49.000 This was after the car accident where Simmons insisted on driving, 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:53.280 causing Amy serious injury, which resulted in her having a 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:59.320 permanent neck disability. Amy knew having another baby could exacerbate 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:03.399 her always delicate condition, and as it was very early days, 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:09.560 she was able to terminate the pregnancy safely. Amy was 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:13.040 taking back control of her life, looking at rental accommodation, 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.960 applying for jobs, and planning a way forward where she 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.399 could raise her daughters independently of him. 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:23.240 Did he know about the termination? 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:28.439 Ah, I don't actually remember. I'm not sure if she 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.040 had just gone to the doctor. I do know that 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:35.439 she she just got the you know, sometimes you've got 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.760 to go into a clinic or you just can take 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:41.200 the medication. She went the medication route, So I'm not 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:42.840 one hundred percent sure if she told him or not. 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.320 Do you think David knew about her plans? 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:51.040 I'm not sure. I have no idea. 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.760 I wonder if he either had a feeling or was 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:57.400 across what she intended to do. 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.000 Yeah, look, it's so long ago now, I don't remember 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:02.760 if she had told me that she did tell him 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:05.600 or not. But and that's always stuck with me, that 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:07.520 she was ready to get out and it was the 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:11.360 most exciting time, but it just never came. 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.480 I'm sure you've gone over this a million times in 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:26.080 your mind, because there's been so many sort of false 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.840 starts in this story, hasn't there in trying to find 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.879 out the truth about Amy? How do you see what 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:38.639 happened in the ensuing hours and days and weeks with 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:39.480 the police action. 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:45.000 Well, I never got contacted by police until Anna started 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:50.760 pushing for something to be done. That's one of the 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:53.240 things that has frustrated me this whole time is if 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.560 they actually looked into it properly at the beginning, they 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.560 would have seen what sort of a person Amy was 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:03.080 like compared to what David was like, how bad of 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:07.119 a temper he had, his drug use, his alcohol abuse, 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:09.840 all these sorts of things that I don't think that 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:12.159 they really took into consideration at the time. They just 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:16.720 labeled Amy suicide. And you know, that's stuck and that's 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:21.159 a hard thing for people to read about someone. She 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:23.320 committed suicide, that's a big deal. What are her girls 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:25.920 going to think when they grow up, Mum left us. 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:29.800 That's that's not a good thing for them to think 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:30.439 growing up. 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:34.600 That's interesting you point that out. So it wasn't until 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:40.080 Anna started digging yep, and making noise and really creating 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:43.880 a problem for authorities, that there was any sort of action, 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:48.880 and that you were contacted her best friend to then 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:50.440 inquire about the background. 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:51.040 Yep. 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:54.399 Yeah, I think someone called me and it was just 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:56.080 sort of a quick phone call. Someone's going to be 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:58.879 in touch, you know, to get some more information from you. 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:02.200 And I ended up having to contact them a couple 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:04.960 of times. The left messages, you know, someone said that 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:06.840 they're going to be calling me for information, and no 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:10.399 one has. And I think by the end of it, 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.240 I did get a call, and it was just a 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:15.880 very quick phone call just to oh, yeah, what sort 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:17.760 of a person was she like? And you know, what 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:21.560 was a relationship like. It was nothing in detail, So 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:24.600 and I got me to do just do a statement. 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:28.960 We'll get in writing. So that's that's where sort of 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:29.640 we started. 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:33.439 If it wasn't for her auntie, Yeah, some of this 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:35.200 would never have got to where we are today. 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.520 No, not at all. I would have just gone through 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.440 as a suicide. And that's what everyone would have thought. 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.320 So you get the distinct impression that really nobody in 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:48.480 a position of power really has ever wanted to genuinely 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:49.480 get to the bottom of it. 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:50.680 Not at all. 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:55.680 No, No, I think that there's they should have done 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:58.119 the right thing from the start. It's very frustrating. I 0:21:58.119 --> 0:21:59.880 think I'm fueled by frustration now. 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:02.520 One thing I still get stuck on with this is 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:06.080 the notion that you can have two little girls in 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:09.200 a car with a car running and their bags packed, 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:14.440 and the police get to know this information and still 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:20.479 decide that their mum has gone inside and committed suicide. 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:22.879 It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:26.600 Just if anyone's got common sense, they would know that 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:30.000 that doesn't make sense. Two days later was her daughter's birthday. 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:34.240 She had the presence in the car like it just 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:38.800 and they don't know Amy's personality. They didn't know what 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:41.480 sort of a person she was. She would not have 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:45.840 done that. She didn't speak of suicide. She loved her daughters. 0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:50.200 It just it doesn't make sense. 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:53.840 And the toxicology reports show that she didn't have any 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:58.280 alcohol or drugs in her sister apart from very normal 0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:00.600 levels of hand He depressed medication. 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:04.840