Speaker 1: This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We
Speaker 1: urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline on
Speaker 1: thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen or visit them at
Speaker 1: lifeline dot org dot AU. A twenty four year old
Speaker 1: devoted mother of two fleeing a violent relationship. As bags
Speaker 1: pack car running, her daughters strapped into the backseat.
Speaker 2: Mom told me that she needed to go back inside
Speaker 2: to grab something.
Speaker 1: Panic.
Speaker 3: I Amy is dead, Sir aim his dead?
Speaker 1: Eight confusion about five minutes, say sit not to suicide.
Speaker 4: One hundred percent.
Speaker 1: This is emersing. What do you think is really the
Speaker 1: honest truth about Amy?
Speaker 5: The Truth About Amy?
Speaker 1: Episode four, I'm Liam Bartlett.
Speaker 6: And I'm Alison's Andy.
Speaker 1: Amy sits on the end of her bed, brushing her
Speaker 1: daughter's hair as they sing along to Taylor Swift Go Sing.
Speaker 1: Amy knows her partner, David Simmons will be home any
Speaker 1: minute now. Amy's smile fails. There are a lot of
Speaker 1: home movies with Amy and her daughter's good job, including
Speaker 1: Naya's second birthday party, excursions and activities explorer like painting
Speaker 1: with watercolors in the park.
Speaker 4: Hey Hi.
Speaker 1: And family get togethers now.
Speaker 4: I am.
Speaker 1: Most of these don't include David, but when he is
Speaker 1: in the frame, Amy certainly appears less comfortable. Fair to say,
Speaker 1: her closest friends were completely aware of her problems with David.
Speaker 5: It was a rollercoaster on and off, up and down.
Speaker 5: I think every relationship has their troubles, but theirs was
Speaker 5: more bad than good.
Speaker 1: Eron Gower met Amy in high school. The pair had
Speaker 1: children around the same age and trusted each other implicitly.
Speaker 5: Our long phone calls or just a quick text or.
Speaker 1: Aaron says, while they could tell each other anything. She
Speaker 1: regrets not being more critical of Amy's relationship with Simmons.
Speaker 5: I just wanted to be more of someone that she
Speaker 5: could open up to if she had you know, everyone
Speaker 5: wants someone to vent to about their relationship without any judgment.
Speaker 5: If she was to complain to her mom or you know,
Speaker 5: one of his family members, they might have tried to
Speaker 5: steer away or make her feel bad for staying or so.
Speaker 5: I always just wanted to be that person that she
Speaker 5: could openly speak to.
Speaker 1: You tried very hard just to be non judgmental.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I didn't want her to feel, you know, like
Speaker 5: I was pushing her to leave or anything. But when
Speaker 5: the times did come that they were in a down
Speaker 5: place in their relationship, I always offered come and stay
Speaker 5: with me, Like I just always tried to open my
Speaker 5: door so that she knew that she had somewhere to
Speaker 5: come and feel comfortable.
Speaker 1: And during those times, were you secretly hoping that she
Speaker 1: would stay away? Oh?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah she. I think one time that they were
Speaker 5: sort of apart, she started to talk to someone new
Speaker 5: and that was exciting, and you know, sort of tried
Speaker 5: to coach her and oh, this is fun, and you
Speaker 5: know it's so good, and you probably feel regreat and
Speaker 5: all that sort of thing. But then you know, David
Speaker 5: had this way about him and he would sort of
Speaker 5: lure her back in and then they were back on
Speaker 5: the roller coaster again.
Speaker 1: What was it about their relationship that was that was
Speaker 1: bad to you as an observer?
Speaker 5: I think Amy was She's a really nice person, a
Speaker 5: people pleaser, and I think David was very demanding or controlling.
Speaker 5: You know, he had to sort of have his say
Speaker 5: in everything, and Amy wasn't really allowed to work, but
Speaker 5: prior to him, she had multiple jobs. You know, she
Speaker 5: was sort of really independent and a social butterfly, But yeah,
Speaker 5: he sort of made sure that what he wanted was
Speaker 5: sort of the path that they led. It was his
Speaker 5: choice or you know, they had a nice house in Pinjarra,
Speaker 5: but he didn't really want to work any steady jobs
Speaker 5: or anything, so they went and moved in with his dad.
Speaker 5: So it was sort of she didn't really have much
Speaker 5: say in anything. He was the dominant in the relationship.
Speaker 1: Did you directly witness any of that controlling behavior.
Speaker 5: I saw him overpower her before physically, Yeah, physically in
Speaker 5: what way. I've always went to her house for playdates.
Speaker 5: You know, our kids were the same age. So one
Speaker 5: time when I was at her house, he should have
Speaker 5: been at work, but he came home really early. It
Speaker 5: was before lunchtime. We were just in the lound room
Speaker 5: and he sat on the couch next to her, and
Speaker 5: I can't remember what the conversation was or anything, but
Speaker 5: Amy was a really small, really little frame. Pretty petite, yeah,
Speaker 5: very petite. He grabbed the back of her neck and
Speaker 5: Amy was laughing, like joke, joking around and you know,
Speaker 5: trying to play it off as it was okay, but
Speaker 5: you could see in her face that she was uncomfortable.
Speaker 5: Grabbed the back of her neck and like pushed her
Speaker 5: head down, so like her head was sort of down
Speaker 5: between her knees, and he was like, she laughed it
Speaker 5: off like it was nothing, but you could see that
Speaker 5: she was uncomfortable, and she's like, oh, leave us alone now,
Speaker 5: And you know he went out and did whatever he
Speaker 5: was doing, So there was that, and you know, he
Speaker 5: was a big guy and wouldn't have taken much to
Speaker 5: make her get in an uncomfortable posision.
Speaker 1: She would have been embarrassed.
Speaker 5: Also, Yeah, yeah, that's why she sort of laughed it
Speaker 5: off as a you know, he's playing around or it's okay,
Speaker 5: but you could see that it wasn't.
Speaker 1: And you could tell that it was obviously a forceful
Speaker 1: grab around the neck.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, No one really wants to be put
Speaker 5: into that position of being folded in half.
Speaker 6: Liam pulls out a photograph of a woman's neck turned
Speaker 6: to the side. Erin had told police about it when
Speaker 6: she was finally able to speak to someone, and when
Speaker 6: she followed it up, they said they couldn't find it.
Speaker 6: I found it within twenty minutes of getting access to
Speaker 6: Amy's iPhone data. There are visible red marks across the neck,
Speaker 6: indicating a recent trauma. The image property shows the date
Speaker 6: as Tuesday, the tenth of July twenty twelve, at about
Speaker 6: six thirty pm.
Speaker 1: Erin, I've got a photograph that I believe Amy said
Speaker 1: this to you on via tech? Is that right?
Speaker 5: She did send me a photo.
Speaker 1: We've got a photograph here that's blown up of a
Speaker 1: rather large bruise on Amy's neck.
Speaker 5: That is it?
Speaker 3: See?
Speaker 5: I got told that they didn't find.
Speaker 1: This, The police didn't find it. Yeah, well we did,
Speaker 1: and it's on her neck. I mean those sort of
Speaker 1: bruises don't get there just by chance, do they.
Speaker 5: This is the first time I've seen it since it happened.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I didn't mean.
Speaker 5: To that's gay.
Speaker 3: See.
Speaker 5: I tried so hard to make sure that I could
Speaker 5: get this available to Anna to back you know, the
Speaker 5: stories of how he treated her.
Speaker 1: Well, I would have thought this is clear evidence of
Speaker 1: the domestic violence that was going on, And for her
Speaker 1: to take that photograph and text it on the phone
Speaker 1: means that she was also very worried. Yeah, ye, why
Speaker 1: did she send you that?
Speaker 5: She always told me all the bad things that had happened,
Speaker 5: you know, when they fought and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, was that a cry for help or is
Speaker 1: she just saying, look, this should be sort of on
Speaker 1: the record.
Speaker 5: Maybe both. Maybe I just didn't take it as her
Speaker 5: cry for help could have been. But yeah I didn't.
Speaker 5: I don't know. I was the same age. I was
Speaker 5: young as well, and you know, if I could go
Speaker 5: back in time, definitely I would try and help her
Speaker 5: get out quicker, knowing you know what was happening.
Speaker 1: It's hard, though, it was not when you get between
Speaker 1: people in a relationship. Yeah, as you say, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a difficult thing to do anyway, full stop.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like Amy didn't want to. She already had one
Speaker 5: father to a child, and now she's got a second
Speaker 5: child's dad in the picture, and so she.
Speaker 1: Was desperate to make this work.
Speaker 5: She wanted to make her family work. Was always on
Speaker 5: and off. And you know, she gave him all these chances,
Speaker 5: but he just never grew up.
Speaker 1: What sort of man does that?
Speaker 3: Though?
Speaker 1: It too? Yeah, a woman's.
Speaker 5: Name, yep, And like I said, she was tiny.
Speaker 1: One day, Amy sent erin a text about how she
Speaker 1: hoped to escape her Bush prison.
Speaker 5: Back on Facebook.
Speaker 7: Loll erin, I'm so annoyed right now, David rocks up
Speaker 7: at four point thirty am, jumps in bed. I ask
Speaker 7: what's wrong. He said he's pissed off because he lost
Speaker 7: his phone, Samsung Galaxy S two in Bush, no insurance.
Speaker 7: I say, you're pissed off because you're on drugs. He
Speaker 7: laid there quiet, so I asked him again. He replies, yeah,
Speaker 7: I had a few tokes of crack. By this time,
Speaker 7: my heart is pounding so hard. I see red and
Speaker 7: start punching into him. He then man handles me, choking
Speaker 7: me and chucking me around the room. My adrenaline is pumping,
Speaker 7: so I didn't feel a thing. I calmed down on
Speaker 7: because Tay is now awake. I'm so hurt that he
Speaker 7: did drugs after I begged him not to take DEXI.
Speaker 7: It fucks me right off. He gives in all the time.
Speaker 7: I'll ring you later and fill you in. He has
Speaker 7: to start work at seven am with his dad, and
Speaker 7: he's not dumb. He will know David has been on drugs.
Speaker 7: Useless piece of dirt. He is bloody disgusted in him.
Speaker 5: The first time that I got really worried was he
Speaker 5: made jokes about if he was ever to do anything
Speaker 5: to her, he was ever to kill Amy, He had
Speaker 5: options of what he could do with her body.
Speaker 1: What possible context couldn't that have been.
Speaker 5: It was the end of one of their kid's birthday party,
Speaker 5: so it was just us three sitting out the front
Speaker 5: of the house in Pinjarra. Everyone had left and we're
Speaker 5: just hanging out.
Speaker 1: Was he drunk, Yeah, he'd been drinking.
Speaker 5: Your day, Amy was sort of you know, dealing with
Speaker 5: all the party or the guests and the kids and
Speaker 5: all that sort of stuff. And this was the time
Speaker 5: that I ever was like, this person's a little bit unhinged.
Speaker 5: You don't really joke about what you've thought to do
Speaker 5: about your partner's body if you ever killed them. His
Speaker 5: two options were he could take her out bush, leave
Speaker 5: her for the pigs to clean up. Or there was
Speaker 5: a quarry that they'd broken into overnight or something in
Speaker 5: the past, and he said he could take her up
Speaker 5: the bext no one would find her there.
Speaker 1: So he was putting forward suggestions of what he would
Speaker 1: do with her body yep, if he killed her yep.
Speaker 1: Or was it a joke?
Speaker 5: Well, coming from him, he made it seem like he
Speaker 5: was joking. But I certainly don't think that that's something
Speaker 5: you joke about, especially if it sounds like you've thought.
Speaker 3: About it before.
Speaker 1: Clearly it stayed in your mind. Oh yeah, yep, so
Speaker 1: you must have thought at the time it was it
Speaker 1: was most unusual. Yeah, when you first heard how did
Speaker 1: you hear about Amy being shot?
Speaker 5: This also has stuck with me. I woke up to
Speaker 5: a text from Nancy that morning and it was something
Speaker 5: really simple. Two lines said Aaron Amy's dead. She shot herself.
Speaker 5: And I was like, what, like that doesn't this isn't
Speaker 5: a funny joke. Oh, so I instantly rang Amy just
Speaker 5: to you know, like your mums sent me this stupid
Speaker 5: message like wrong, Yeah, and I went I went to voicemails.
Speaker 5: I was like, Okay, that's weird. Try again, voicemail again.
Speaker 5: And then my next feeling was she didn't do it.
Speaker 5: I knew you had to vote to Amy boys to
Speaker 5: her girls. Oh yeah, instantly, like from the beginning, I've
Speaker 5: known in my heart that it wasn't suicide.
Speaker 1: So did you ring Nancy then?
Speaker 5: Or I sent her a message and I said I
Speaker 5: took some time to you know, like got hit around it,
Speaker 5: and then I sent her a message and got her
Speaker 5: to call me. She sort of told me what happened
Speaker 5: or what they say has happened.
Speaker 1: Did you express your doubt to her then?
Speaker 3: Ye?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've always said to anyone that I've spoke to
Speaker 5: about it that I don't think that she committed suicide.
Speaker 5: She wasn't that sort of person. She didn't speak about suicide.
Speaker 5: She loved her girls, and she was just such a
Speaker 5: happy person. Like every time we were together it was
Speaker 5: just laughter and like joking and fun and it just
Speaker 5: wasn't It wasn't her.
Speaker 1: When was the last time you talked to Amy had
Speaker 1: any sort of communication?
Speaker 5: Well, like I said, we were always just like you know,
Speaker 5: little texts and stuff here and there. But our last
Speaker 5: long conversation was I think the week.
Speaker 1: Before, only a week before. Yeah, And was there anything
Speaker 1: in that that anything in her voice that you would
Speaker 1: have thought was unusual.
Speaker 5: Or not well, unusual for the good I guess Amy
Speaker 5: had a plan. She was so excited so because of
Speaker 5: the car accident when she fructured her neck and stuff,
Speaker 5: she was seeking compensation for that. She was excited. She
Speaker 5: thought that it was almost finalized, so she was ready
Speaker 5: to get her pay out for that, much to David's disappointment,
Speaker 5: because he was upset that he would be the one
Speaker 5: that had to pay for I don't know how those things.
Speaker 1: Work, but well, effectively that was a claim against David,
Speaker 1: wasn't it. Yeah, because he was driving. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So he didn't want her to do it, obviously, because
Speaker 5: then he would have had to pay this debt. But
Speaker 5: she stuck to her guns with this, and she was
Speaker 5: excited because it was almost done and she was ready
Speaker 5: to get the girls out. She'd started looking for rentals,
Speaker 5: you know. She wanted to get a little place for
Speaker 5: her and the girls. And another thing she was really
Speaker 5: excited for was to work. I think she knew someone
Speaker 5: that had a cafe or something starting up, and she
Speaker 5: wanted to go and work part time.
Speaker 1: So she knew there was money on the way, yep,
Speaker 1: and she was making a plan to use that to
Speaker 1: improve herself.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 5: Yep. She was going to pay a car off, get
Speaker 5: a place, and then set herself up for her and
Speaker 5: her girls to go and live by themselves.
Speaker 1: But in none of these plans that you've just mentioned
Speaker 1: is the notion of David being with her.
Speaker 5: She'd had enough.
Speaker 1: She'd had enough, yep. And she told you that in
Speaker 1: very yep certain terms.
Speaker 5: Yep. She was ready to go, and that was.
Speaker 1: A week before this happened.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Amy had formulated a plan, a plan she was
Speaker 6: confident enough in to communicate to erin just one week
Speaker 6: before she died. Everything was in motion, and she was
Speaker 6: excited about the prospect of a new life with her
Speaker 6: two young daughters and without David.
Speaker 3: Amy.
Speaker 5: It also not long before it had happened, she found
Speaker 5: out that she was pregnant, so she did not want
Speaker 5: any more kids, especially in her state. You know, she's
Speaker 5: very fragile. How is she going to be able to
Speaker 5: carry a baby nine months and be as fragile as
Speaker 5: she was. David wanted a son, so he was sort
Speaker 5: of pushing her, but it didn't take into consideration how she felt,
Speaker 5: you know, how she going to physically do this. He
Speaker 5: didn't care. But that was another thing that she sort
Speaker 5: of stuck to her guns.
Speaker 6: This was after the car accident where Simmons insisted on driving,
Speaker 6: causing Amy serious injury, which resulted in her having a
Speaker 6: permanent neck disability. Amy knew having another baby could exacerbate
Speaker 6: her always delicate condition, and as it was very early days,
Speaker 6: she was able to terminate the pregnancy safely. Amy was
Speaker 6: taking back control of her life, looking at rental accommodation,
Speaker 6: applying for jobs, and planning a way forward where she
Speaker 6: could raise her daughters independently of him.
Speaker 1: Did he know about the termination?
Speaker 5: Ah, I don't actually remember. I'm not sure if she
Speaker 5: had just gone to the doctor. I do know that
Speaker 5: she she just got the you know, sometimes you've got
Speaker 5: to go into a clinic or you just can take
Speaker 5: the medication. She went the medication route, So I'm not
Speaker 5: one hundred percent sure if she told him or not.
Speaker 1: Do you think David knew about her plans?
Speaker 5: I'm not sure. I have no idea.
Speaker 1: I wonder if he either had a feeling or was
Speaker 1: across what she intended to do.
Speaker 5: Yeah, look, it's so long ago now, I don't remember
Speaker 5: if she had told me that she did tell him
Speaker 5: or not. But and that's always stuck with me, that
Speaker 5: she was ready to get out and it was the
Speaker 5: most exciting time, but it just never came.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've gone over this a million times in
Speaker 1: your mind, because there's been so many sort of false
Speaker 1: starts in this story, hasn't there in trying to find
Speaker 1: out the truth about Amy? How do you see what
Speaker 1: happened in the ensuing hours and days and weeks with
Speaker 1: the police action.
Speaker 5: Well, I never got contacted by police until Anna started
Speaker 5: pushing for something to be done. That's one of the
Speaker 5: things that has frustrated me this whole time is if
Speaker 5: they actually looked into it properly at the beginning, they
Speaker 5: would have seen what sort of a person Amy was
Speaker 5: like compared to what David was like, how bad of
Speaker 5: a temper he had, his drug use, his alcohol abuse,
Speaker 5: all these sorts of things that I don't think that
Speaker 5: they really took into consideration at the time. They just
Speaker 5: labeled Amy suicide. And you know, that's stuck and that's
Speaker 5: a hard thing for people to read about someone. She
Speaker 5: committed suicide, that's a big deal. What are her girls
Speaker 5: going to think when they grow up, Mum left us.
Speaker 5: That's that's not a good thing for them to think
Speaker 5: growing up.
Speaker 1: That's interesting you point that out. So it wasn't until
Speaker 1: Anna started digging yep, and making noise and really creating
Speaker 1: a problem for authorities, that there was any sort of action,
Speaker 1: and that you were contacted her best friend to then
Speaker 1: inquire about the background.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think someone called me and it was just
Speaker 5: sort of a quick phone call. Someone's going to be
Speaker 5: in touch, you know, to get some more information from you.
Speaker 5: And I ended up having to contact them a couple
Speaker 5: of times. The left messages, you know, someone said that
Speaker 5: they're going to be calling me for information, and no
Speaker 5: one has. And I think by the end of it,
Speaker 5: I did get a call, and it was just a
Speaker 5: very quick phone call just to oh, yeah, what sort
Speaker 5: of a person was she like? And you know, what
Speaker 5: was a relationship like. It was nothing in detail, So
Speaker 5: and I got me to do just do a statement.
Speaker 5: We'll get in writing. So that's that's where sort of
Speaker 5: we started.
Speaker 1: If it wasn't for her auntie, Yeah, some of this
Speaker 1: would never have got to where we are today.
Speaker 5: No, not at all. I would have just gone through
Speaker 5: as a suicide. And that's what everyone would have thought.
Speaker 1: So you get the distinct impression that really nobody in
Speaker 1: a position of power really has ever wanted to genuinely
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of it.
Speaker 3: Not at all.
Speaker 5: No, No, I think that there's they should have done
Speaker 5: the right thing from the start. It's very frustrating. I
Speaker 5: think I'm fueled by frustration now.
Speaker 1: One thing I still get stuck on with this is
Speaker 1: the notion that you can have two little girls in
Speaker 1: a car with a car running and their bags packed,
Speaker 1: and the police get to know this information and still
Speaker 1: decide that their mum has gone inside and committed suicide.
Speaker 1: It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Speaker 5: Just if anyone's got common sense, they would know that
Speaker 5: that doesn't make sense. Two days later was her daughter's birthday.
Speaker 5: She had the presence in the car like it just
Speaker 5: and they don't know Amy's personality. They didn't know what
Speaker 5: sort of a person she was. She would not have
Speaker 5: done that. She didn't speak of suicide. She loved her daughters.
Speaker 5: It just it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: And the toxicology reports show that she didn't have any
Speaker 1: alcohol or drugs in her sister apart from very normal
Speaker 1: levels of hand He depressed medication.
Speaker 5: That was one thing that also frustrated me. During the inquest,
Speaker 5: they kept saying referring to Amy's mental health, and you
Speaker 5: know she's depressed and all these things. So I sort
Speaker 5: of piped up. David admitted that he had used drugs,
Speaker 5: he'd been drinking all day, he had anger issues. Why
Speaker 5: did no one think to take in all his sort
Speaker 5: of mental health and where his mindset was at that day,
Speaker 5: everyone just kept sort of pushing everything on Amy. Amy.
Speaker 5: Amy her fault. You know, she had antidepressants in a system.
Speaker 5: Consider what sort of a person he was, Like.
Speaker 1: Well, that supported the suicide theory, didn't it. Yeah, yep,
Speaker 1: So it was able to be pushed. Yeah, there's hundreds
Speaker 1: of thousands, if not millions, of Australians who were on
Speaker 1: exactly the same antidepressant medication that Amy was on and
Speaker 1: in the same dosages. Yeah, and they're not committing suicide.
Speaker 5: And she had many reasons to live. She was happy,
Speaker 5: she had a goal and she was excited for that
Speaker 5: to come through.
Speaker 1: So she had a longer term plan and she had
Speaker 1: a very short term plan as well, So she was
Speaker 1: planning all round.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 1: Does someone like that then go back inside and commit suicide?
Speaker 5: Definitely not.
Speaker 1: Doesn't make a lot of sense, does it.
Speaker 5: Anyone with common sense that looks at the mountain of
Speaker 5: stuff that's happened in this In Amy's case, you can
Speaker 5: definitely see that there's something not right.
Speaker 1: Do you want somebody somewhere in a position of authority
Speaker 1: to chase this all the way down the rabbit hole?
Speaker 5: Yep? I think with enough pressure, the truth will come
Speaker 5: out and with some actual real police work to happen.
Speaker 5: You know, they can't hold it in forever.
Speaker 1: Do you think there are people involved in this who
Speaker 1: know a lot more than what they've ever said.
Speaker 5: Andre said, I think that that's something that you can't
Speaker 5: hold into yourself. So someone's spoken to someone about what
Speaker 5: happened to get it off their chest, and there's definitely
Speaker 5: people that should come forward and think of the girls.
Speaker 5: Someone needs to be held accountable for what happened.
Speaker 1: Does it strike he was a little bit strange that
Speaker 1: those three guys who were there on the day, David Simmons,
Speaker 1: Gareth Price and Joshua Brydon are still all very close.
Speaker 6: It's worth mentioning here that while Joshua Bridon was there
Speaker 6: on the day, he apparently left before Amy was shot.
Speaker 6: We'll be doing a deep dive on Bridon later in
Speaker 6: the series and discuss whether the evidence actually supports this claim.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yep, I saw that Gareth on social media.
Speaker 5: You know, he sort of said something along the lines
Speaker 5: of oh, I can't take this anymore, and David was
Speaker 5: straight in there with the comment and I'll be home,
Speaker 5: I'll be home tomorrow or something. You know. It just
Speaker 5: seemed very weird the way that he commented and reacted
Speaker 5: to his posts.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to check with you something else. When
Speaker 1: we had a chat, Gareth Price. He said a couple
Speaker 1: of things about Amy. Yeah, and I want to check
Speaker 1: them with you because you knew her a lot better
Speaker 1: than he did. Did she like shooting?
Speaker 5: Amy loved animals. This was one of the things that
Speaker 5: David had been doing, hunting and stuff for way before Amy,
Speaker 5: so she needed to find a common ground, common interest.
Speaker 5: She wasn't really a big drinker, she wasn't a camper,
Speaker 5: She didn't go out camping prior to meeting David. So
Speaker 5: it was sort of one of those things where this
Speaker 5: is a really big coby of his. Maybe I can
Speaker 5: take it up. We've got that common interest.
Speaker 1: She was trying to please him.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, So it was definitely something that she just
Speaker 5: wanted to do so that they had something that they
Speaker 5: could do together.
Speaker 1: Gareth was insistent. He said she loved shooting. Amy loved shooting.
Speaker 5: Well, she got a pink gun. But you know, if
Speaker 5: you can make anything girly, because she was a girly girl.
Speaker 5: But yeah, she didn't. I don't think that she loved
Speaker 5: it at all.
Speaker 1: He also said she loved skinning things.
Speaker 5: Nope, like I said, Amy loved animals.
Speaker 3: She had a little.
Speaker 5: Piglet at one stage, they had dogs and chickens and
Speaker 5: all that sort of stuff. It was again, just something
Speaker 5: that she could do to be on the same level
Speaker 5: as him, something to try and make things work and
Speaker 5: make the relationship easier for them to get along.
Speaker 1: So she certainly didn't love it.
Speaker 5: I did not love it.
Speaker 1: Why would Gareth say those things?
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 1: He also said that that four ten that shotgun was hers,
Speaker 1: that was her gun.
Speaker 5: I'm not sure that. I only know that she had
Speaker 5: the pink gun. That's totally Amy style, just to have
Speaker 5: something girly. But I don't know. I didn't really. I'm
Speaker 5: not a gun person. Again, we had the same sort
Speaker 5: of personality, and I don't like guns or hunting or anything.
Speaker 1: So Gareth was wrong about the four to ten shotgun
Speaker 1: being Amy's. Police records have Simmons admitting that the gun
Speaker 1: did belong to him. Poor Cameron audio into the Ari
Speaker 1: concode on ABC Sinclub. Now we turn to another close
Speaker 1: friend of Amy's, Natasha Selsa. Okay, here we go. The
Speaker 1: pair lived together when Amy was pregnant with Tay and
Speaker 1: Natasha tells me she was horrified by what she witnessed. Well, listen,
Speaker 1: thanks a lot for sitting down and talking to us
Speaker 1: about this. Obviously, it's been traumatic for a lot of
Speaker 1: people close to Amy, and you would have gone through
Speaker 1: those feelings as well.
Speaker 3: How could you not?
Speaker 1: How have you interpreted all that Over the years.
Speaker 2: I think hindsight has made it so obvious to me
Speaker 2: what was happening at the time. Now I don't think
Speaker 2: I knew what was happening in the moment. I didn't
Speaker 2: realize the abuse that was happening. I don't think it
Speaker 2: was forefront of my mind that that is abuse. And
Speaker 2: I just sort of wanted to do with my friend,
Speaker 2: wanted to do I wanted to help her, she wanted
Speaker 2: to be happy and everything like that. So over the
Speaker 2: years I sort of think back on it, and I
Speaker 2: just think, now she's gone, and it's just hard to
Speaker 2: think about and to talk about and to know she's
Speaker 2: not here. She's not here to see her girls, she's
Speaker 2: not here to grow up and be with her family,
Speaker 2: to see her friends, to do everything that she should
Speaker 2: have been doing. They got taken away from her and
Speaker 2: I think over the years it's just sort of got
Speaker 2: to a point where I'm now angry and I don't
Speaker 2: see any of all changes. I don't see us getting
Speaker 2: justice because of what happened, because of the insufficient detective
Speaker 2: work on the night.
Speaker 3: You've ruined it. You've ruined any hope of justice.
Speaker 2: We can now only pray that we get the justice
Speaker 2: that Amy needs and she deserves, and those girls deserve,
Speaker 2: her daughters.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's a lot, a lot to think about.
Speaker 1: You don't think it was suicide.
Speaker 3: No, I don't.
Speaker 2: I got the phone call from Nancy and I remember
Speaker 2: her saying to me, Amy's been shot. Amy's been shot.
Speaker 2: And then she's saying the police are saying she shot herself.
Speaker 2: The police are saying she shot herself. And I said, no,
Speaker 2: this isn't Amy. No, no, No, that didn't happen. She
Speaker 2: wouldn't have done that. And I know Amy well enough
Speaker 2: to know that she wouldn't have done that, And she
Speaker 2: wouldn't have done that with her two daughters in a car,
Speaker 2: with her belongings.
Speaker 3: Packed ready to go, she had everything ready to go.
Speaker 2: I've seen her leave before, and I've never seen her
Speaker 2: leave like that before.
Speaker 3: She's always come to me before, and she's left him.
Speaker 2: And he's always dragged her back in his way, he
Speaker 2: charms her into coming back, and then nothing changes.
Speaker 3: It's just the same and it's just all a facade.
Speaker 2: And then when she's backed, it's coercial control. If she's
Speaker 2: got no money, you can't get a job. No, you
Speaker 2: stay at home, you look after the kids, don't talk
Speaker 2: to men. You can't do that, you can't do this.
Speaker 2: You're a slut, you're that, you're this. It's just the
Speaker 2: constant belittling and all that sort of stuff is it's
Speaker 2: a lot.
Speaker 1: Did you ever witness any of that, Natasha.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: So he's His demeanor towards Amy changed when she pretty
Speaker 2: much got pregnant, and I saw it. I saw how
Speaker 2: his demeanor was with her. He was very jealous. He
Speaker 2: was very much I'm going to do.
Speaker 3: What I want to do.
Speaker 2: I'm going to go out. I'm going to go see
Speaker 2: the boys. I'll be home when I get home. You
Speaker 2: just stay here. And if she was to go out,
Speaker 2: it would be well will free. So I don't know
Speaker 2: she was pregnant.
Speaker 3: If she was to go out and didn't tell him,
Speaker 3: it would be an issue.
Speaker 2: She would come home, he might be drunk or intoxicated
Speaker 2: in any the other way, and it turns into an
Speaker 2: argument because he starts getting jealous. Who have you been texting?
Speaker 2: Show me your phone, show me this, show me that.
Speaker 2: So she had a habit of always deleting her Facebook,
Speaker 2: she had a habit of being quiet when he'd walk
Speaker 2: in the room. He'd had like, it's just all these things.
Speaker 1: So you'd notice her it.
Speaker 2: Changed, it changed, And I remember when she moved from
Speaker 2: the house Incomes got to the house in Pinjarra, we
Speaker 2: would have a lot more phone conversations because she was
Speaker 2: a lot further away from me then, so she was
Speaker 2: about an hour drive from me, so we would be
Speaker 2: on the phone a lot more. And I could tell
Speaker 2: every time he came in the room or he came
Speaker 2: home subject change. She would go quiet and then you
Speaker 2: would just tell you could feel it like she didn't
Speaker 2: want him knowing. She couldn't event she couldn't talk to me,
Speaker 2: she couldn't say what she wanted to say, and then it.
Speaker 3: Was, oh, he's on the phone.
Speaker 2: So it's a very jealous sort of reaction every time
Speaker 2: it came to that sort of thing. So she is
Speaker 2: like eventually she just got it. And I remember her
Speaker 2: deleting her Facebook so many times and him going through
Speaker 2: her phone or like all these claims. But yet we're
Speaker 2: hearing all this stuff about him cheating. So it's a
Speaker 2: bit like it was projecting. I feel like he definitely
Speaker 2: projected onto Amy, and then Amy sort of suffered at it,
Speaker 2: like she suffered for whatever he's thinking in his head.
Speaker 2: She got the brunt of that, so she just sort
Speaker 2: of tried to pacify it and rub it off, and she.
Speaker 3: Would get angry. Don't get me wrong, Amy had a
Speaker 3: fight and I like.
Speaker 2: Oh, good girl, should I reckon and she did. She'd
Speaker 2: give it back to him if he gave it to her.
Speaker 2: But he was nasty. It was nasty. It was not
Speaker 2: just the physical demeanor and the standing over and just
Speaker 2: the physical difference of them, like Amy was so pteite
Speaker 2: and so little and David standing so tall and so muscly,
Speaker 2: like at the time he was quite muscly.
Speaker 1: There was a suggestion at one stage, I think during
Speaker 1: the inquest as well, this was brought up that they
Speaker 1: had an argument earlier before the gun went off and
Speaker 1: Amy had somehow head butted David.
Speaker 2: Oh I honestly, if that was the case, I would
Speaker 2: say it was going to be a very volatile argument,
Speaker 2: and I think it would be coming from both directions.
Speaker 2: I don't say that Amy wouldn't have sat there and
Speaker 2: probably got frustrated and done something.
Speaker 3: I can't say she wouldn't have. I don't know. I
Speaker 3: wasn't there, But I.
Speaker 2: Would imagine knowing Amy and knowing the history of the
Speaker 2: going out and not coming home, or coming home on drugs,
Speaker 2: or coming home drunk or all those sort of things,
Speaker 2: all those factors, I can imagine how angry she would
Speaker 2: have been that night, and I can imagine the fight
Speaker 2: that would have ensued from that.
Speaker 1: But with their size difference and with their height difference,
Speaker 1: was Amy capable of being more aggressive toward him than
Speaker 1: he didn't?
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
Speaker 2: I think at the end of the day, Amy may
Speaker 2: have smashed a tank because he says, that's not hurting you.
Speaker 3: Like she's so petteeue. I can't explain it.
Speaker 2: She's just such so much a small person that man
Speaker 2: could easily just push her over.
Speaker 3: That's the difference.
Speaker 2: Like, I don't see how she could sit there and
Speaker 2: like head butt him and do any type of damage
Speaker 2: that would be of any significance. I think it would
Speaker 2: more be a case of they're in each other's face
Speaker 2: and maybe he's come down and hit her head.
Speaker 3: I don't feel like Amy is that type of my I.
Speaker 2: Don't see her getting all hung through and head batting someone.
Speaker 2: I see her being angry. I see her being volatile
Speaker 2: in that sense and maybe smashing a tank. Because I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna lie.
Speaker 3: It's a pattern.
Speaker 2: It's a many year long pattern of him going out, drinking,
Speaker 2: doing drugs, coming home and just having an attitude. And
Speaker 2: this is where I feel like on that night, it
Speaker 2: was pretty final.
Speaker 3: I think she was done. I think he knew she
Speaker 3: was done.
Speaker 1: Did you ever have a conversation with her about leaving
Speaker 1: because you've got a great relationship? I mean, did you
Speaker 1: ever say to her, look, you know you can have
Speaker 1: a relationship like mine, for example, you don't have to
Speaker 1: put up with this.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And did she agree or did you have arguments about that?
Speaker 2: No, no arguments. She agreed and she left him. She
Speaker 2: left many times. She came to me and she came
Speaker 2: to my house. I've got text where she sat there
Speaker 2: saying to me, like, you know, I've gone home but
Speaker 2: he's done nothing. All he's done is he's just pulled
Speaker 2: me back home. He's not talking to me all this
Speaker 2: type of stuff, Like he.
Speaker 3: Would sit there and bait her to come home, say
Speaker 3: all the right things, and then just act the same
Speaker 3: way it would be every time. So he just keeps
Speaker 3: repeating the same behaviors. That's all he does.
Speaker 1: One of the girls is his own, wouldn't you think
Speaker 1: that he would be proud?
Speaker 3: I always think about that, But then I always flashed
Speaker 3: back to when Amy was pregnant. She was giving birth
Speaker 3: that weekend and he had his hands around her throat.
Speaker 3: So was he thinking about his daughter?
Speaker 6: Then?
Speaker 3: No, I don't know if he's ever thought about his daughter.
Speaker 1: So sorry, just take me there.
Speaker 3: So back when.
Speaker 2: Amy was nine months pregnant with Tay, I was staying
Speaker 2: at her house because we were obviously a bit concerned
Speaker 2: she was going to go into labor, and David had
Speaker 2: opted to go out for the weekend, so he had
Speaker 2: been out I think since the Thursday night. So me
Speaker 2: and Amy and Naa we went and pulled the matress
Speaker 2: out and had a summer party in the lounge room
Speaker 2: and we stayed in there pretty much the whole weekend.
Speaker 2: Didn't really see David much until I think it was
Speaker 2: Saturday afternoon he came home.
Speaker 1: He stayed out for a lot three days.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this would probably be on the twenty sixth
Speaker 3: of June. He came home and he had been out drinking.
Speaker 3: He was obviously on drugs.
Speaker 2: Amy was livid, as I'm not going to lie now,
Speaker 2: mother myself, any mother nine months pregnant would be with you,
Speaker 2: partner out like that when you're about.
Speaker 1: To give birth. Well, she was full term, she was
Speaker 1: full term, she.
Speaker 3: Was due, she was overdue. I'm pretty sure I think, yeah,
Speaker 3: she was overdue. So she was. We were waiting, We
Speaker 3: were very very close. He came home, very volatile. So
Speaker 3: it started. He was intoxicated then drinking, was on drugs.
Speaker 3: Amy started saying to him, this is a not I'm pregnant,
Speaker 3: Like how I'm going to get to the hospital now,
Speaker 3: like all this sort of stuff. Yeah, all valid, yeah,
Speaker 3: all valid points. And it ended up getting quite heated
Speaker 3: and it just ramped up. So I was staying that
Speaker 3: night too, just to make sure everything was okay, and
Speaker 3: Amy was okay, and.
Speaker 2: I don't know what happened, but they were fighting in
Speaker 2: the kitchen and I turned to walk out the loundry
Speaker 2: and back through the kitchen, and all I saw was
Speaker 2: David with his hands around Amy's neck, bent over like
Speaker 2: her back pushed up against the table, with his hands
Speaker 2: around her neck, pushing her back, and She's reached out
Speaker 2: and just twisted his gold chain around his neck. And
Speaker 2: I remember just having to separate them and to send
Speaker 2: him out front and like deal with Amy and then
Speaker 2: like talk to it. And I remember mediating it and
Speaker 2: I remember saying him, that's not okay, Like you can't
Speaker 2: do that, Like she's nine months what.
Speaker 3: Is wrong with you?
Speaker 1: He had both of his hands around her, his hands.
Speaker 2: Around her neck, and she was sitting there with his
Speaker 2: like trying to grab something. So she's scorn and sort
Speaker 2: of wraps like her hand around his chain like that, and.
Speaker 1: He's bending her over the table at the same time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, bending her so pushing her back over the table
Speaker 2: as she's reaching out to.
Speaker 3: Grab that chain around.
Speaker 1: So this is a woman who's nine months pregnant about
Speaker 1: to give birth. Anymi teet as well.
Speaker 3: You've got to remember Amy was like it was like
Speaker 3: a basketball that baby.
Speaker 1: She's pregnant. I'm just struggling with this what sort of
Speaker 1: mentality is this.
Speaker 3: He'd been on drugs, and it was very obvious he'd
Speaker 3: been on drugs. He'd been out parting with the boys.
Speaker 3: He actually wanted to go back out again.
Speaker 2: And I think that was when that fight happened later
Speaker 2: in the night, because he was trying to go back
Speaker 2: out again, and that's when Amy was saying, no, you're
Speaker 2: not right.
Speaker 1: Or thank goodness you were there to mediate.
Speaker 3: I know, I think about that. And then literally the
Speaker 3: next day. I think I left at five o'clock on
Speaker 3: the Sunday because I had worked the next day, and
Speaker 3: I said to Amy, call me, I'll tell you to
Speaker 3: the hospital, WILL do whatever whenever you need to go.
Speaker 3: I don't think I got half an hour down the road.
Speaker 3: She sat down in the land room and her waters broke,
Speaker 3: and we were in hospital and she gave birth the
Speaker 3: next morning.
Speaker 1: So you took her, You went back and took her.
Speaker 3: I took her, and I stayed for the birth of
Speaker 3: Tay and where was he? He was there?
Speaker 2: So I ended up picking both of them up and
Speaker 2: I took him with us. He was not okay to drive,
Speaker 2: So I have photos of the whole birth and just
Speaker 2: looking at him in the photos makes me so disappointed
Speaker 2: and disgusted.
Speaker 3: It's just to see and you can tell when you
Speaker 3: see the photos, you can see that he's not all there.
Speaker 3: It's sad.
Speaker 1: That says a lot. That's not about the nature of
Speaker 1: that relationship, as you say, Like I said.
Speaker 3: It changed when she got pregnant. This is within a
Speaker 3: nine month period he had his hands around in it.
Speaker 3: So if that's the start of their.
Speaker 1: Relationship, how long were your friends?
Speaker 2: I met Amy when she was about sixteen through one
Speaker 2: of my other friends, and I.
Speaker 3: Didn't really talk to her much, like we said hello
Speaker 3: and night. She I remember she had a kangaroo.
Speaker 2: She fostered a little Joey that the mum had died,
Speaker 2: so she was fostering a baby Joey and she's walking
Speaker 2: around at sixteen with a little Joey.
Speaker 3: And I remember meeting her and I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: she's nice and that.
Speaker 2: And then on my eighteenth we sort of started talking
Speaker 2: more and I invited her to my party and then yeah,
Speaker 2: from there.
Speaker 3: Pretty much it was thick and faster and more friends
Speaker 3: and that sort of that friend you see every day,
Speaker 3: like you know, you're always hanging out, like she'd be
Speaker 3: working at the pub at night, and I would go
Speaker 3: down and sit at the pub and keeper company, like
Speaker 3: you know. It was, Yeah it was.
Speaker 2: I was always at a house wearing sleepovers, it was
Speaker 2: going out, would go camping or whatever it would be.
Speaker 3: Yeah it was.
Speaker 5: It was good friendship, good buddies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah I missing.
Speaker 1: Did you have a falling out with her?
Speaker 3: I had a little falling out.
Speaker 2: So just after bye, I just heard some stupid stuff,
Speaker 2: and I think, being young and dumb, I regret it.
Speaker 2: I can't tell you how much I can tell you
Speaker 2: to love and forgive because I never get to say
Speaker 2: what I really wanted to say to Amy now.
Speaker 1: So yeah, how long ago was that before?
Speaker 2: So we fell out for about start twenty twelve, and
Speaker 2: then I started talking to her again.
Speaker 3: Was when the car accident happened.
Speaker 2: So I got word from Amy's sister that Amy was
Speaker 2: in hospital and that she'd being involved in a car
Speaker 2: accident with David and the girls.
Speaker 1: It was a bad accident for her, wasn't it.
Speaker 3: It was bad for Amy.
Speaker 2: Surprisingly for Amy, So that side of the cart somehow
Speaker 2: got more damaged than anywhere else. So Amy ended up
Speaker 2: in a halo. So I reached out to her then,
Speaker 2: because as soon as I heard that, I it.
Speaker 3: Didn't feel right.
Speaker 2: I just felt really sick to my stomach, and just
Speaker 2: knowing David, I wasn't comfortable. So I thought I'd reach
Speaker 2: out to her, and that's when, thankfully we did start
Speaker 2: to talk and men do.
Speaker 3: And all that sort of stuff. But she was very
Speaker 3: hesitant for me to see her.
Speaker 2: I think that goes in part and parcel with I
Speaker 2: wouldn't take a lot of David's crap if I saw it.
Speaker 3: I was very vocal.
Speaker 2: If I saw anything, I would intervene, I would say something.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't allow her to be treated in any way
Speaker 2: in front of me.
Speaker 3: So I feel like, yeah, it was good that we
Speaker 3: sort of started to get back on track and we
Speaker 3: were starting to talk, but she was a bit hesitant
Speaker 3: to see me, and I have a feeling it's because
Speaker 3: of the whole halo situation. I know she said to
Speaker 3: me she didn't want me to see her in a halo.
Speaker 6: The car crash happened at about six pm on the
Speaker 6: twentieth of January twenty thirteen. The girls were in the
Speaker 6: back seat of a white nineteen ninety seven Toyota land
Speaker 6: Cruiser along with Amy's younger step brother, Deacon, who was
Speaker 6: twelve at the time. Amy was in the front passenger
Speaker 6: seat and David Simmons was driving down Shrevena Road in Serpentine,
Speaker 6: an unsealed grubble road. They were all wearing seat belts.
Speaker 6: Simmons made a statement to the Insurance Commission of Western
Speaker 6: Australia about six months later, where he said he was
Speaker 6: only doing about sixty kilometers per hour at the time,
Speaker 6: although claimed Shreidner Road didn't actually have a speed limit.
Speaker 6: He said he was driving up a slight incline coming
Speaker 6: out of a left hand bend when.
Speaker 8: The car started to slide and the rear canopy of
Speaker 8: the car struck a burl of a tree which hangs
Speaker 8: out over the road. As a result, this caused the
Speaker 8: car to slide sideways and come off the road to
Speaker 8: the right hand side in impact with a tree in
Speaker 8: the dead center of the front of the car's bonnet.
Speaker 8: I am unable to recall whether I had applied the
Speaker 8: brakes or not, and really didn't have the time to
Speaker 8: do anything. The impact caused me to smack my head
Speaker 8: on the right hand side of the car. I was
Speaker 8: a bit dazed and the kids were crying. I got
Speaker 8: out and ran around to the passenger side and helped
Speaker 8: the kids out, and Amy had already alighted from the vehicle.
Speaker 8: Amy didn't say she was injured or in pain. A
Speaker 8: short period of time later, a car drove past and
Speaker 8: the occupants called an ambulance.
Speaker 6: The ambulance was taking a while to arrive, so Simmons
Speaker 6: called a mate who came and picked them up. He
Speaker 6: drove Amy and the kids to Armadale Hospital.
Speaker 8: We took Amy to the emergency department and she was
Speaker 8: seen by doctors. They advised us Amy had to go
Speaker 8: to Royal Perth Hospital and she was transferred by an ambulance.
Speaker 8: Amy had scans on her neck, but I was also
Speaker 8: on the bed getting checked over and had a few
Speaker 8: stitches for a laceration above my right eye. Amy was
Speaker 8: in hospital at least a week. She had a halo
Speaker 8: placed around her head as she suffered a fractured vertebrae.
Speaker 8: She had the halo removed about a month or so ago.
Speaker 8: She is still suffering from pain as a result of
Speaker 8: her injuries.
Speaker 1: It was pretty confronting and in fact, very lucky for
Speaker 1: her it wasn't more serious.
Speaker 2: Per it could have been a lot more serious, like
Speaker 2: they're off road, it's what would happen. I've seen it before.
Speaker 2: You know, you go a throne and no rules apply.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so that's when we sort of started reaching out.
Speaker 3: I'd be texting her in that and having a chat
Speaker 3: and I would be asking her how are you going,
Speaker 3: and that she's just the same old So to me,
Speaker 3: it's the same old, same old stuff, David, same old drinking,
Speaker 3: same old going out, not coming home.
Speaker 1: Nothing changed in that controlling sort of atmosphere. Though. She
Speaker 1: probably didn't want you hanging around too much because it
Speaker 1: would have made it tougher for her, wouldn't it.
Speaker 2: It would have, and I think I would. I'm not
Speaker 2: type of person to ten a blind eye if I
Speaker 2: saw something.
Speaker 5: I wouldn't be able to.
Speaker 3: Not do anything. I couldn't. I love her and I'll
Speaker 3: do anything for her.
Speaker 8: At the time of the crash, I was not under
Speaker 8: the influence of alcohol, prohibited drugs, or any other mind
Speaker 8: altering substances. At the time, I was not taking any
Speaker 8: prescribed medication. There is no medical reason which may have
Speaker 8: affected my ability to operate a motor vehicle in a
Speaker 8: safe manner. At the time of the road crash. There
Speaker 8: were no witnesses to the crash. Police did not attend
Speaker 8: the crash. I have no ongoing injuries of this crash.
Speaker 8: As a result of this crash, my personal life has
Speaker 8: not changed.
Speaker 6: However, less than a year later, his personal life would change.
Speaker 6: On the twenty ninth of July twenty thirteen, the Insurance
Speaker 6: Commission of Western Australia asked Simmons to admit full liability
Speaker 6: for the claim made by Amy Wensley. Documents state that
Speaker 6: until just a couple of days before her death, Amy
Speaker 6: was not going to proceed with the claim, but she
Speaker 6: changed her mind and told the Commission she would go
Speaker 6: ahead after all. Two days later, Amy was dead.
Speaker 3: I never thought it would get to this point.
Speaker 2: I really thought that the day that Nancy was calling me,
Speaker 2: I was getting a phone call to say Amy was
Speaker 2: in hospital.
Speaker 1: More than anything, that's what immediately came to your mind.
Speaker 2: That's immediately because I hadn't really spoken with Amy. Go
Speaker 2: to remember, I hadn't spoken with Amy for a while.
Speaker 2: We've been texting. For me to get a phone call,
Speaker 2: and I'm very close with Nancy, but for me to
Speaker 2: get a phone call at.
Speaker 3: Work at like nine am. I was just a bit
Speaker 3: what's going on?
Speaker 2: And as soon as I saw it, she wouldn't call
Speaker 2: me during work hours, so I knew it was Amy.
Speaker 3: I knew, I knew him. My heart was Amy. And
Speaker 3: then when she said, I don't know, when she says
Speaker 3: you're shot, you just didn't feel real. It just didn't
Speaker 3: sound right. It wasn't Amy.
Speaker 5: She would never do that.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: She wouldn't let me play devil's advocate for a moment though, Natasha,
Speaker 1: she was on antidepressant medication, and we know from the
Speaker 1: toxicology reports from the coroner's court that the level of
Speaker 1: the antidepressant in her system was totally normal. You know,
Speaker 1: totally fine. But people who are depressed sometimes to varying degrees,
Speaker 1: do silly things. And I'm sure this has gone through
Speaker 1: your mind too, But knowing her as you did, is
Speaker 1: there any degree of possibility, any chance in your mind
Speaker 1: that it was her, that she did do it by
Speaker 1: her own hand.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be lying if I said I haven't thought
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 2: I can only sit here and say that in my heart,
Speaker 2: I one hundred percent believe that Amy would not have
Speaker 2: done this, And every time I keep thinking about it,
Speaker 2: and I think of all the possibilities, I just keep
Speaker 2: coming back to she would not have done this. She
Speaker 2: had her two daughters in the car.
Speaker 3: And to know Amy, to.
Speaker 2: Know that her daughters were her life, he would know
Speaker 2: that she would never do that. In the vicinity of
Speaker 2: her children. She wouldn't have done that.
Speaker 1: She just wouldn't have That's the deal breaker. That's the deal.
Speaker 3: Breaker for me. If he's had have been she was
Speaker 3: at home on her own, or like the kids weren't around,
Speaker 3: other circumstances, we could discuss this.
Speaker 2: No, her children were there, I don't care about the
Speaker 2: frame of mind. I have seen Amy in hysterics before.
Speaker 2: She will always put those children above herself, no matter
Speaker 2: what the situation is, no matter what's going on, it
Speaker 2: is those kids.
Speaker 3: So that for me to hear that they were sitting
Speaker 3: in a car less than fifty meters away, No, there
Speaker 3: is no way in hell that that happened.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to be fair, and I'm trying to
Speaker 1: look at every single possibility in this in looking at
Speaker 1: that scenario. And you know, tragically, a lot of people
Speaker 1: who commit suicide their relations and their loved ones. A
Speaker 1: lot of them say later, you know, I never would
Speaker 1: have thought XXX would have done this, so it's a
Speaker 1: natural reaction. Also to those close by.
Speaker 3: It does play a big part.
Speaker 2: I do believe in my heart, with those girls there,
Speaker 2: that was what it was. But then we start going
Speaker 2: into the detail, what we found out after the fact,
Speaker 2: what we found about the position of their body, what
Speaker 2: we found out about how she was shot, all that
Speaker 2: all plays into it too, And from that it.
Speaker 3: Just cements that for me, that would not have been
Speaker 3: the case.
Speaker 2: And I'm sorry, I just there is nothing anyone could
Speaker 2: say to me that would make me feel any other way.
Speaker 3: And now she's not here.
Speaker 1: Okay. The whole thing is incredibly sad, isn't It's just
Speaker 1: because it's just seems so unnecessary.
Speaker 5: It so just feels surreal, just absolutely surreal. So much
Speaker 5: could go wrong.
Speaker 1: The police have to a certain extent, admitted their mistakes
Speaker 1: on the night, But do you think they're trying hard enough? Now?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Have you seen the news every second day there's a
Speaker 2: woman pretty much being murdered.
Speaker 3: What change have they made? What change? If there's change,
Speaker 3: how is it not forefront in our minds.
Speaker 2: I can't even sit here and rattle off to you
Speaker 2: anything that I've seen visually to promote or to help
Speaker 2: with domestic violence, to help with the femicide that's going
Speaker 2: on in Australia at the moment, no one is doing
Speaker 2: much like more needs to be done. Where is the change?
Speaker 2: Show me the change, because right now I just see
Speaker 2: figures increasing year by year by year.
Speaker 3: It's horrible.
Speaker 1: Yes, there's a lot, doesn't it.
Speaker 3: Oh, there's a lot, a lot of women. But where's
Speaker 3: their justice? There's no justice for them.
Speaker 6: Natasha is right. In twenty twenty four, a woman is
Speaker 6: killed every four days, according to the Australian Femicide Watch.
Speaker 6: The United Nations defines femicide as the most brutal and
Speaker 6: extreme manifestation of violence against women and girls and intentional
Speaker 6: killing with gender related motivation, mostly by intimate partners or
Speaker 6: members of their own family, and National homicide statistics revealed
Speaker 6: that last year, the rate of Australian women killed by
Speaker 6: their partners increased by twenty eight percent. However, the rate
Speaker 6: of domestic violence deaths remains underreported as many aren't captured
Speaker 6: as such. Including this one.
Speaker 1: Good evening. We begin tonight with breaking news. There have
Speaker 1: been shots fired and florious these pictures just coming into
Speaker 1: the newsroom.
Speaker 6: Mark Bombara was on the hunt for his wife and daughter,
Speaker 6: who had sought a restraining order against him from Wa
Speaker 6: police after they noticed his handgun was missing. WA police
Speaker 6: refused and they were forced into hiding.
Speaker 3: My mother and I made it clear that lives were
Speaker 3: at risk, and we were repeatedly ignored.
Speaker 6: When Bombara couldn't find his intended victims, he sought out
Speaker 6: his wife's best friend, and when she wouldn't tell him
Speaker 6: where they were, he shot her and her daughter, Gretel,
Speaker 6: before turning the gun on himself.
Speaker 7: We're being told three people have been shot.
Speaker 6: Seven news On understands those people have been killed because
Speaker 6: neither were intimately connected or related to him. Their deaths
Speaker 6: are not considered domestic violence related.
Speaker 7: What my father did was an act of domestic violence.
Speaker 1: It was it was it was so much. She shot herself.
Speaker 1: That's what happened there.
Speaker 6: Next week, Gareth Price, No, he.
Speaker 7: Didn't do it.
Speaker 1: He didn't do it.
Speaker 3: Sorry. Simo is a good buddy, man.
Speaker 1: I you were done, You're not done.
Speaker 4: It so we was no.
Speaker 1: Jim say, if you knew Amy and have information, any
Speaker 1: information about her death, we'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: Just email us at the Truth about Amy at seven
Speaker 1: dot com dot Au. That's s E v E N
Speaker 1: The Truth about Amy at seven dot com dot Au,
Speaker 1: or visit our website sevenews dot com dot Au forward
Speaker 1: slash the Truth about Amy. You can also send us
Speaker 1: an anonymous tip at www dot the Truth about Amy
Speaker 1: dot com. If you're on Facebook or Instagram, you can
Speaker 1: follow us to see photos and updates relevant to the case,
Speaker 1: but for legal reasons, unfortunately, you won't be able to
Speaker 1: make any comments. And remember, if you like what you're hearing,
Speaker 1: don't forget to subscribe. Please rate and review our series
Speaker 1: because it really helps new listeners to find us. Presenter
Speaker 1: and executive producer Alison Sandy, Presenter and investigative journalist Liam Bartlett,
Speaker 1: Sound design Mark Wright, Assistant producer Cassie Woodward, Graphics Jason Blandford,
Speaker 1: and special thanks to Tim Clark and Brian Seymour. This
Speaker 1: is a seven News production.