WEBVTT - Summer series: The AFL's first openly bisexual player (Pt 2)

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is this is the Daily This is

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<v Speaker 1>the Daily ohs oh, now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning, and welcome to The Daily OS. My name

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<v Speaker 2>is Sam Kozlowski. And on today's episode of our TDA

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<v Speaker 2>summer series, we thought we'd bring you what was probably

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<v Speaker 2>one of our proudest moments as an organization, and that

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<v Speaker 2>was bringing an exclusive interview with ex AFL player Mitch

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<v Speaker 2>Brown to light. In that interview, Mitch told us and

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<v Speaker 2>told Australia that he was the first openly gay or

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<v Speaker 2>bisexual male AFL player in the game's one hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>twenty nine year history. It was an incredible moment and

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<v Speaker 2>if we look back on that moment now, we can

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<v Speaker 2>just see how much progress already has been made in

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<v Speaker 2>this conversation and the continued work that Mitch has done

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<v Speaker 2>since his interview with The Daily OS. For me personally,

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<v Speaker 2>it was one of the most nerving interviews I've done

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<v Speaker 2>in my years at TDA, because the stakes were high

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<v Speaker 2>and it was honor to be trusted with Mitch's story.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's that chat with Mitch and I and I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's something that will all look back on as a

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<v Speaker 2>key moment in twenty twenty five, let's talk about that identity,

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<v Speaker 2>and let's talk about some of the stereotypes that exist

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<v Speaker 2>around bisexuality. I want to kind of foreshadow what I

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<v Speaker 2>think the comments section might look like on our chat,

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<v Speaker 2>and I want to ask whether you're worried about being

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<v Speaker 2>dismissed because you have a female partner and you present,

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<v Speaker 2>as you've said, as what many would stereotype as a

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<v Speaker 2>straight man.

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<v Speaker 1>It does does worry me. It worries me to a point.

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<v Speaker 1>But at the end of the day, I'm strong enough.

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<v Speaker 1>I know who I am, I know the people that

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<v Speaker 1>I love, and that's all that matters to me. But

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<v Speaker 1>I think, think through my experience what I've learned, and

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<v Speaker 1>as I grew up, your sexuality or being queer for

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<v Speaker 1>a man only meant you're either gay or you're not.

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<v Speaker 1>There's no in between. Youither can't be, you can't love both,

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<v Speaker 1>can't be sexually attracted to both. Bisexuality is not a thing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's made up to cover gay men or straight presenting

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<v Speaker 1>gay men, right, And this is what I've learned. One

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<v Speaker 1>of the powerful lessons I've learned from our young people is,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I feel that young people here in Australia

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<v Speaker 1>think of sexuality so different. It's so black and white.

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<v Speaker 1>For older generations and for young people, sexuality means different things.

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<v Speaker 1>Queerness means different things. Being a bisexual man can look different,

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<v Speaker 1>and it does look different.

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<v Speaker 2>Bisexual people face discrimination not just from the straight community,

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<v Speaker 2>but also from other members of the LGBT community. There's

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<v Speaker 2>this sense of being too gay for straight spaces and

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<v Speaker 2>too straight for gay spaces. Have you experienced that sort

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<v Speaker 2>of double rejection?

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<v Speaker 1>You know what I've experienced, especially my history and my background.

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<v Speaker 1>Grew up in the country. I've got a you know,

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<v Speaker 1>an identical twin brother who played football as well, stoic

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<v Speaker 1>and strong. I definitely like I feel sometimes like I

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<v Speaker 1>question my own place in the queer community. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>look at you, You're a white male privilege, looking the

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<v Speaker 1>way you do, trying to step into our trauma that's ours.

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<v Speaker 1>And I acknowledge that too, like the first one to

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<v Speaker 1>understand that and to admit my journey has been relatively easy.

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<v Speaker 1>The fact that I can see here and say I'm

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<v Speaker 1>comfortable and strong in talking about my sexuality such a privilege,

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<v Speaker 1>because I know there's so many people out there, so

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<v Speaker 1>many men out there that especially bisexual men or straight

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<v Speaker 1>presenting men with a strong masculine friendship group, or you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they may be married to a woman or have a

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<v Speaker 1>girlfriend that's a woman having these feelings questioning or being

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<v Speaker 1>attracted to another man and feeling shamed and embarrassed about it.

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<v Speaker 1>And part of the reason why I wanted to share

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<v Speaker 1>some of my experiences is so those people, whether they

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<v Speaker 1>want to start talking about it with their partner or

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<v Speaker 1>with their friends or someone in their community, that they

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<v Speaker 1>feel seen and that it's okay. It's okay to have

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<v Speaker 1>these feelings. You're not any less of a man, whatever

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<v Speaker 1>that means, you know. I remember the comments from Gil McLaughlin,

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<v Speaker 1>CEO of the AFL.

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<v Speaker 3>I wanted to ask you about them.

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<v Speaker 2>So he said that he can understand why nobody has

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<v Speaker 2>come out in the men's game, because why would anybody

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<v Speaker 2>want that burden? How does that make you feel in

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<v Speaker 2>the seat that you're in now?

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<v Speaker 1>I remember those comments, and the conversation in the locker

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<v Speaker 1>room just exacerbated that fear even more if you're a

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<v Speaker 1>gay man or a bisexual man sitting in that locker room,

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<v Speaker 1>because the players would be like, oh, can you imagine this? This,

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<v Speaker 1>or I even heard the one night. You know, I'd

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<v Speaker 1>even do it. I would even pretend so I could

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<v Speaker 1>get some money out of it or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like, it's absurd, But I remember those comments, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's really easy for me as a pass player. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't have to run out there at the MCG

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<v Speaker 1>in front of eighty thousand fans next week. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>have to fly over to a hostile Adelaide Oval and

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<v Speaker 1>play and fear the comments being thrown at me. But

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<v Speaker 1>I can imagine for a player that you know, this

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<v Speaker 1>is their livelihood, this is a job, that a workplace

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<v Speaker 1>that provides income for their family and their future. Maybe

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<v Speaker 1>it's worth not saying anything and then having a football career,

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<v Speaker 1>successful football career, because if you don't say anything, I

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<v Speaker 1>can still and I'm still playing good football, and then

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<v Speaker 1>I can finish, retire and then sail off to the

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<v Speaker 1>sunset and go find my community.

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<v Speaker 3>So what would you say to them?

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<v Speaker 1>Then?

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<v Speaker 2>What would you say to gay or bisexual men currently

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<v Speaker 2>playing in the AFL?

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<v Speaker 1>What I would say, and this is, you know, there

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<v Speaker 1>are currently games and bisexual men playing in the AFL

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<v Speaker 1>at the moment and in the past. You know, I

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<v Speaker 1>only feel okay to I guess in quotations take this title.

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<v Speaker 1>This is not about me. It's not about Mitch Brown

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<v Speaker 1>being the first at all. For me. It's about sharing

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<v Speaker 1>my experience so others can feel seen, others can have

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<v Speaker 1>a role model. I'm not famous. Previously, many people wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>know that I'm played for ten years. But to have

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<v Speaker 1>someone and then maybe there will be that second person,

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<v Speaker 1>and then the third, maybe there'll be a current player,

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<v Speaker 1>and as that community grows, the empathy grows. If this

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<v Speaker 1>has an impact on one person, it's worth it. It

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<v Speaker 1>matters what are you hoping.

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<v Speaker 3>The AFL says in response to hearing.

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<v Speaker 1>This interview, My advice to the AFL would be to

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<v Speaker 1>celebrate positive male role models. We celebrate the ones who

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<v Speaker 1>are successful in the eyes of whether it's wealth or

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<v Speaker 1>the amount of disposals you get on the weekend. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>My advice to the AFL would be, let's celebrate the players.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, they may not be the most successful, but

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<v Speaker 1>they are the most important players in our community, the

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<v Speaker 1>ones who are walking down the street and portraying positive

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<v Speaker 1>male role model all the time.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you think when there's players making homophobic slurs on

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<v Speaker 3>the field, like the one that we're talking about at

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<v Speaker 3>the moment, AzaC Grankn as we head into a final series,

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<v Speaker 3>do you think that match bands is the tool that

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<v Speaker 3>you would be using to try and prevent these from

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<v Speaker 3>happening in the future.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought about this a lot, and you know, personally,

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<v Speaker 1>it doesn't affect me or I don't feel strongly either way,

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<v Speaker 1>whether you know a player cops a five week band

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<v Speaker 1>or a one week or nothing. What matters to me

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<v Speaker 1>most is a sense of change, a movement created where

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<v Speaker 1>you can be anyone and feel like you can be

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<v Speaker 1>anyone and be safe in any environment here in Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>And I understand like I've got two young boys that

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<v Speaker 1>I love very much, and as a parent you often

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<v Speaker 1>think about what's the future of for them and what

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<v Speaker 1>do you want for them? And you know they're a

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<v Speaker 1>sporting nation. The boys are going to play sport. All

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<v Speaker 1>that I care about is there no matter of environment

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<v Speaker 1>they are, whether it's in the group chat, whether it's

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<v Speaker 1>in their basketball or footy team, whether it's at school,

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<v Speaker 1>they feel safe and comfortable to be whoever they want

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<v Speaker 1>to be.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you hope they think when one day they're

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<v Speaker 2>a bit young now, probably to sit through the length

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<v Speaker 2>of this. But what do you hope that they think

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<v Speaker 2>about you when they watch this one day?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is one of my this is one

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<v Speaker 1>of my fears is you know, will they get bullied

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<v Speaker 1>when they get a bit older? You know, what kind

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<v Speaker 1>of comments or articles will they click on when they

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<v Speaker 1>have access to the internet. But overriding those thoughts, those

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<v Speaker 1>negative thoughts, I mean, they were proud. Last night I

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<v Speaker 1>shared with the boy's mum, my ex wife, Shay, what

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<v Speaker 1>I was going to do. I mean that was really

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<v Speaker 1>important for me, and I was to be honest, worried

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<v Speaker 1>about her reaction. Would she will be worried about the

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<v Speaker 1>reaction of the community and how that would affect our

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<v Speaker 1>two boys who are very young. And it surprised me.

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<v Speaker 1>She reacted really well. She sent me a text message

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<v Speaker 1>actually this morning and I'd like to share it says

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<v Speaker 1>good luck this morning. I'm so proud of you and

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<v Speaker 1>right behind you all the way. This will make the

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<v Speaker 1>world a slightly better place for our boys and young

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<v Speaker 1>men in Australia, hopefully old men too. This is living

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<v Speaker 1>the values of the kind of man I want our

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<v Speaker 1>boys to grow up to be. Men that care and

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<v Speaker 1>are proud of who they are. You know what matters

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<v Speaker 1>most is starting a chain reaction, starting a movement. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in this position, strong and comfortable to, as Gil

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<v Speaker 1>McLaughlin says, take the burden and if that, if someone

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<v Speaker 1>needed to do it, I'm in the space to do it.

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<v Speaker 1>And I've done it, and hopefully this now provides the safety,

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<v Speaker 1>the comfort and the space for the second person. And

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, who's counting anyway?

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<v Speaker 2>You're shown unbelievable wisdom, maturity, compassion in this chat. Leave

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<v Speaker 2>us with some guidance. What's the best way for footy

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<v Speaker 2>fans and for your loved ones, even the ones or

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<v Speaker 2>especially the ones that are learning this for the first time.

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<v Speaker 2>What's the best way for them to show up from

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<v Speaker 2>here interested for you, but also for the sport and

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<v Speaker 2>for the AFL and for young men in general.

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<v Speaker 3>What can we do?

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<v Speaker 1>I've mentioned the power of uplifting role models, and I've

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned the power of empathy. I think that if you

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<v Speaker 1>can find it somewhere in your heart, whether you're sitting

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<v Speaker 1>there watching football on the weekend or you're sitting next

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<v Speaker 1>to your brother, to have a sense of empathy that hey,

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<v Speaker 1>they might be that very person that might be suppressing feelings.

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<v Speaker 1>They might be that person that is feeling so trapped

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<v Speaker 1>and unhappy because they can't be who they are. And

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<v Speaker 1>if they can have even a little bit of sense

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<v Speaker 1>of hey, you know what, it's okay, that sense of empathy,

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<v Speaker 1>even just a fraction, I think it will make it

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<v Speaker 1>a huge difference.

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<v Speaker 2>Mitch, thank you for showing up today and for being

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<v Speaker 2>the man that you are.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for providing the space Sah.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for joining us today, and importantly, thank you to

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<v Speaker 2>Mitch for telling his story. If you need support or

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<v Speaker 2>someone to talk to at any time, you can contact

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<v Speaker 2>Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen or queue life on one

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<v Speaker 2>eight hundred one eight four five two seven.

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<v Speaker 3>We'll speak to you on Monday.

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<v Speaker 2>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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<v Speaker 2>Bunjelung Kalkotin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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<v Speaker 2>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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<v Speaker 2>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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<v Speaker 2>Strait Island and nations.

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<v Speaker 1>We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

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<v Speaker 1>both past and present,