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Speaker 1: Professor Gen Twangy is at San Diego State University of

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Speaker 1: the author of more than one hundred and ninety scientific

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Speaker 1: publications and several books based on her research, including the

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Speaker 1: brand new Ten Rules for Raising Kids in a High

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Speaker 1: Tech World. She's also written Generations Igen and Generation Me,

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Speaker 1: and her research has been everywhere from Time Magazine to

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Speaker 1: The Atlantic, News Week, The New York Times, USA Today,

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post. I could keep on going. Gene Professor

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Speaker 1: Twangy and her heart. We live in San Diego with

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Speaker 1: their three daughters, and today we go to step into

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Speaker 1: a conversation about her new book that I think every

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Speaker 1: parent needs to have a copy of. Ten Rules for

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Speaker 1: Raising Kids in a High Tech World. Ten Rules for

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Speaker 1: Raising Kids in a High Tech World. How parents can

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Speaker 1: stop smartphone, social media and gaming from taking over their

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Speaker 1: children's lives. I can't wait for this conversation. Stay with us,

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Speaker 1: it's coming up next. Hello and welcome to The Happy

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Speaker 1: Family's podcast, Real Parenting Solutions Every day on Australia's most

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Speaker 1: downloaded parenting podcast. My name's doctor Justin Coilson, and today

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Speaker 1: an interview that I have been looking forward to for

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Speaker 1: I was going to say months, but I've only known

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Speaker 1: about the book for a handful of weeks. Brand new

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Speaker 1: book that's just been released from one of my favorite academics,

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Speaker 1: Professor Gen Twangy. The books called Ten Rules for Raising

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Speaker 1: Kids in a High Tech World. One of my other

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Speaker 1: favorite books, in fact, I'm holding into my hand right

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Speaker 1: now is Generations The Real Differences between gen Z Millennials,

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Speaker 1: jen X Boomers and Silence What they mean for our future.

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Speaker 1: Gene wrote that one as well. There's also Igen and

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Speaker 1: a whole lot more, and Professor Twangy joined me on

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Speaker 1: the podcast right now to talk about the new one.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for being here.

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Speaker 2: Gene, Thanks for having me on.

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Speaker 1: I want to start with a straight to it a

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Speaker 1: question about Australia's upcoming minimum age for social media legislation.

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Speaker 1: There is a lot of noise in the Australian media

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Speaker 1: about this at the moment. As you would be aware,

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Speaker 1: we've past world for legislation setting a minimum age or

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Speaker 1: a minimum limit for access to social media. Given your

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Speaker 1: research on the effect of tech and specifically social media

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Speaker 1: on kids, what's your assessment of government intervention versus parental

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Speaker 1: responsibility here, Like is this a good thing or is

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Speaker 1: it really what many people are saying, it's just up

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Speaker 1: to parents to parent. What's your take on that.

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Speaker 2: I am so excited about this law. I have always

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Speaker 2: wanted to move to Australia. Now I really do. That

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Speaker 2: is my summary. So parents are in such a tough position.

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Speaker 2: Social media and most of the world is so underregulated,

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Speaker 2: if not completely unregulated. It's really hard for parents who

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Speaker 2: don't want their kids on social media to keep them

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Speaker 2: off the platforms. I do think there are some things

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Speaker 2: that can be done, which is why you know, I

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Speaker 2: wrote the ten Rules book. But parents are struggling, and

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Speaker 2: understandably so, because parental permission isn't required, age isn't usually verified.

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Speaker 2: The minimum age that's usually set of thirteen is way

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Speaker 2: too low. What parent or educator or developmental expert would

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Speaker 2: ever say thirteen puberty that's the best time to introduce

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Speaker 2: social media. It's just unimaginable. And if it's regulated, and

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Speaker 2: if fifteen and unders are not on the platform, then

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Speaker 2: parents don't have to listen to their twelve year old

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Speaker 2: sep But mom, everybody else is on Instagram, everybody else

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Speaker 2: is on TikTok, because then that argument won't be there.

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Speaker 2: It can be you need to wear your seat belt

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Speaker 2: because it's the law. No, you can't drink because you're

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Speaker 2: not old enough yet, it's the law. I really wish

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Speaker 2: I had that excuse. As a parent of three teenagers,

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Speaker 2: I can tell you.

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Speaker 1: That, yeah, yeah, some of my greatest regrets. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I flip flipped on this. Over the years, I've been

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Speaker 1: a big fan of a love of the work that

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Speaker 1: Andy Shibolski has done out of the UK at Oxford.

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Speaker 1: I've also watched what you've been doing in John Hayden,

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Speaker 1: watching the ongoing debate over the last fifteen years. I've

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Speaker 1: been on one side of the fence, and then the other,

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Speaker 1: and then the other. I mean, I've got splinters on

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Speaker 1: my backside from climbing over the face so many times.

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Speaker 1: And yet in the last four or five years, I've

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Speaker 1: really solidified on this very clear sense that this is

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Speaker 1: not good for our kids. It's not even good for us.

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Speaker 1: The Internet. While it brings an enormous amount of benefits,

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Speaker 1: the Internet fundamentally is not good for us in so

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Speaker 1: many ways. I'd be curious to know, even at sixteen,

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Speaker 1: do you think that kids are ready at sixteen to

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Speaker 1: be a given carte blanche full access to everything that

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Speaker 1: the social media environment throws at them.

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Speaker 2: No, So my rule about social media in the book

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Speaker 2: is no social media until sixteen or later. I think

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Speaker 2: you can make a solid argument for eighteen. Sixteen's a

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Speaker 2: nice compromise. I understand why the laws settled there. I

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Speaker 2: think even at that age they need limits. So, Okay,

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Speaker 2: you're sixteen, a lot of your friends are on Instagram,

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Speaker 2: but let's give you an hour a day and that's it,

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Speaker 2: so it doesn't become what it is now. In the US,

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Speaker 2: average team spends almost five hours a day using social media.

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Speaker 1: So we've got Australian data showing that Australian teens are

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Speaker 1: spending nine hours per day in recreational screen time, which

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Speaker 1: is primarily TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, social media and some gaming.

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Speaker 1: OECD data as well as one of my friends in

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Speaker 1: New Southwest Macquarie unied, the Unplugged psychologist Brad Marshall. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Marshall and his research colleagues have found nine hours per

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Speaker 1: day of recreational screen use. I mean these numbers are

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Speaker 1: just astonishing. Walk us through what it does to a

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Speaker 1: child's brain. I mean, everyone's talking about brain rod at

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Speaker 1: the moment, that's the word of the year for me.

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Speaker 1: But what's actually going on inside their heads when they're

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Speaker 1: getting nine hours of TikTok a day?

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Speaker 2: So Brain wrote chronically Online. What I love is that

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Speaker 2: gen Z themselves has advice for the chronically Online. They say,

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Speaker 2: go touch grass.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you touch grass exactly, just.

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Speaker 2: Lovely, and that's one of the things that kids not doing.

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Speaker 2: So when screen time, recreational screen time, becomes that high,

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Speaker 2: there's the worries of what they're doing on the platforms

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Speaker 2: and all of the pressures of social media and the

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Speaker 2: toxic content and so on. But then there's also the

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Speaker 2: worry of what are they not doing. They're probably not

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Speaker 2: sleeping enough, they're not hanging out with their mates in person.

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Speaker 2: They're probably not exercising and getting outside, they're not reading

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Speaker 2: all of these things that are more beneficial for mental

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Speaker 2: health than nine hours a day on recreational screen time.

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Speaker 1: Prophisit Twangi in the book Ten Rules for Raising Kids

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Speaker 1: in a High Tech World, you begin with an Australian story.

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Speaker 1: We share that with us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Bannie Alacchi and his wife Claudia I have

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Speaker 2: five children, and when their oldest daughter was ten, they

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Speaker 2: gave her a smartphone because she said, Mom and dad,

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Speaker 2: all of my friends have smartphones, and if you don't

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Speaker 2: give me one, I'll be left out, an argument many

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Speaker 2: parents have heard. And as he has, she danced less,

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Speaker 2: she didn't play with your youngest siblings as much, she

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Speaker 2: wasn't around, you know, to help around the house. He said,

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Speaker 2: it transformed her entire childhood, And so that story opens

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Speaker 2: the book because I thought his words and his story

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Speaker 2: were so powerful to capture what happens in so many

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Speaker 2: families when kids get a smartphone. So they took that

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Speaker 2: smartphone back. They founded a group called the Heads Up Alliance,

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Speaker 2: where parents come together at schools to say, we're going

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Speaker 2: to agree that our kids are not going to get

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Speaker 2: smartphones until they're older. There's a group in the US

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Speaker 2: that does this too, called Wait until Eighth So it's

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Speaker 2: the end of eighth grade. Even that founder says, look,

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Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting you just give him a smartphone carte blanche.

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Speaker 2: At that point. Work them up to it. And that's

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Speaker 2: something that's worked really well in my family as well.

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Speaker 2: That my kids wanted to text their friends, they wanted

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Speaker 2: their own phones, but I was not going to give

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Speaker 2: them a smartphone where they could be on social media

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Speaker 2: or AI companion naps, you know, or have the Internet

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Speaker 2: in their pocket all the time. So they have basic

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Speaker 2: phones that are designed for kids, so that don't have

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Speaker 2: any of those things, but they could still tax their friends.

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling inspired. So first off, Daniel Archie and the

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Speaker 1: heads up lines to friends of our podcast, and we

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Speaker 1: love the work that they're doing. I'm feeling inspired. My

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Speaker 1: fifteen year old, oh my goodness, she's only got a

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Speaker 1: what six months until she will get access to social

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Speaker 1: media based on this minimum age legislation. But one of

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Speaker 1: my great regrets, as I started to say before, was

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Speaker 1: giving our kids access to smartphones earlier than we should

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Speaker 1: have because I was flip flopping throughout all those years

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Speaker 1: and listening to you as we have this conversation, I

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Speaker 1: kind of just want to go into her bedroom and say, actually,

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Speaker 1: you need to give you that phone now we're done,

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Speaker 1: Which brings me to your first rule. Rule Number one

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Speaker 1: in the book is you're in charge. Parents need to

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Speaker 1: actually use their parental authority and be okay with saying

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Speaker 1: no to their kids. A lot of parents when they

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Speaker 1: hear that, though, they kind of think, well, hang on,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to become the enemy. We are going to

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Speaker 1: have a blow up. This is going to create a

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Speaker 1: lot of contention, a lot of disharmony in our home,

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Speaker 1: especially if you've already squeeze the toothpaste out of the tube,

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Speaker 1: like it's really hard to get it back in. And

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Speaker 1: I think about my interactions with my fifteen year old,

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of, even as the parenting expert who's written

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Speaker 1: the ten books and does the podcast, I'm thinking I've

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Speaker 1: just done of if I've got the energy for this

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Speaker 1: five I think it's easier to just say, you know what,

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Speaker 1: we've made the mess, and it just now is what

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Speaker 1: it is. What's your response to that? For parents who

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Speaker 1: are sort of going.

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Speaker 2: Ugh, So I'll take the toothpaste out of the two

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Speaker 2: genie out of the bottle thing first. Yeah, So you

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Speaker 2: can you can come to a halfway position with this.

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Speaker 2: You can say to your fifteen and a half year old, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to take your smartphone away, but I

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Speaker 2: need it for an hour so I can make sure

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Speaker 2: that you're not spending too much time on social media.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to block app downloads, so if you want

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Speaker 2: a certain app, then it's a conversation between us, rather

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Speaker 2: than it being something unilateral. I want you to be safe,

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Speaker 2: I want you to be healthy, and we can do

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Speaker 2: this or no smartphone at all. Smart kid is going

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Speaker 2: to choose. Let's take that compromise position. So there are

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Speaker 2: things that can be done. You can And also that's

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Speaker 2: the point of you're in charge. You can put the

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Speaker 2: genie back in the bottle. If things are not going well,

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Speaker 2: and you don't have to be mean about it, and

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Speaker 2: you don't have to beat draconian. You can come to

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Speaker 2: some sort of solution that works for everybody. It is,

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Speaker 2: of course even better if you can start from the

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Speaker 2: beginning with those rules in place. And I have found

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Speaker 2: in my family that having set rules actually makes your

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Speaker 2: relationship with your kids easier. So one of my rules

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Speaker 2: is you get your first internet enabled phone, your first

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Speaker 2: actual smartphone when you get your driver's license. So here

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Speaker 2: in California, you can get your driver's license at sixteen,

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Speaker 2: but you know you have to get your permit and

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Speaker 2: do the driving practice and take your test. So my

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Speaker 2: middle one turned sixteen at the beginning of the month,

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Speaker 2: and she said to me a couple months ago, can

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Speaker 2: I have the smartphone when I turned sixteen, not just

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Speaker 2: want to get the driver's license. I said, nope, the

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Speaker 2: rules the driver's license, because that puts it off for longer,

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Speaker 2: and it also ties it to independence and then encourages

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Speaker 2: that driver's license, which with some kids is not going

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Speaker 2: to be an issue. My oldest was like, right in line,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm gonnaone to be taking those

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Speaker 2: driving lessons if it wasn't for this incentive. So it

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Speaker 2: helped with that too, and that was it. We had

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Speaker 2: that one pushback and I said, nope, it has to

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Speaker 2: be with the driver's license, and that was it, and

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Speaker 2: she didn't bring it up again. She's really excited to

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Speaker 2: get that driver's lences in and that smartphone. It hasn't

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Speaker 2: changed her enthusiasm, but it cut off the arguments because

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Speaker 2: it was such a clear rule.

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Speaker 1: So we've got three rules that have kind of come

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Speaker 1: out in that answer. Number one, you're in charge as

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Speaker 1: a parent. Rule number four in the book, I think

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Speaker 1: it's rule number four your first phone should be a

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Speaker 1: basic phone. Give kids just basic phones without social media,

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Speaker 1: without internet browsers, without AI apps and that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: And I think it was rule number five. First smartphone

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Speaker 1: with the driver's license, and that makes sense because you

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Speaker 1: want to have access to things like navigation. Although I've

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Speaker 1: been playing around with a new phone that I purchased recently.

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Speaker 1: It took about nine months to arrive because of manufacturing

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Speaker 1: issues and Trump tariffs and moving things from China to

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Speaker 1: India so that it could be made. But the light phone.

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Speaker 2: Is this is the phone is amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I've been I've been using it a little bit.

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Speaker 1: The amount of travel that I do and the amount

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Speaker 1: of tech that I use on a daily basis, it's

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Speaker 1: been a challenging phone for me to use. But I

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Speaker 1: have a daughter who's been overseas for eighteen months. She's

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Speaker 1: just recently come home. She needed a phone, and I said,

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Speaker 1: why don't you give this ago? So she's in her

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Speaker 1: early twenties and she just keeps on saying to me,

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Speaker 1: I love this phone because it's got navigation. You can

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Speaker 1: still take photos, but it doesn't have all the social media.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't have Internet browsing. And I'm watching this kid

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Speaker 1: blossom because there's nothing to do on the phone except

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Speaker 1: use it as a phone. It's a tool and that's it.

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Speaker 1: As expensive, there's some challenges with it that we're still

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Speaker 1: working our way through awhelmingly the upside versus the downside.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, what a great idea.

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Speaker 2: And seeing that with even a young adult in her

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Speaker 2: early twenties versus a twelve year old. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: think what that says to me is the benefits would

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Speaker 2: potentially be even bigger if that was the choice she

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Speaker 2: made for a younger kid, and then they grew up

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Speaker 2: with that type of phone, and then by the time

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Speaker 2: they have a smart phone, you know, maybe they say, hey,

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Speaker 2: I don't even need this.

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Speaker 1: We're so grateful for that experience that she's having and

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Speaker 1: trying to work out how we can bring that downstream

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Speaker 1: to the other kids. Again, one of those things that

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Speaker 1: we're going to have to negotiate over time. Let me

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Speaker 1: ask you a couple of other questions about the book

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Speaker 1: and your take on some things. So one of the

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Speaker 1: other rules that you have, I think it's towards the end,

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Speaker 1: maybe rule number eight is give your kids real world freedom.

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Speaker 1: This ties in with something that Lenaskanasi, who has been

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Speaker 1: on our podcast a number of times, talks about all

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Speaker 1: the time, a founder of the Let Grow movement and

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Speaker 1: the author of The New York Times best selling Free

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Speaker 1: Range Kids. You talk about how parents and grandparents grew

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Speaker 1: up with tremendous independence but now don't want to give

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Speaker 1: their own children that same freedom. And what I'd love

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Speaker 1: to know is why what's driving the disconnect? And how

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Speaker 1: does a phone based childhood actually make kids less safe

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Speaker 1: than the real world freedom we're afraid to give them, Like,

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Speaker 1: why are we happier to have them in the living

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Speaker 1: room or in their bedroom staring at the screen rather

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Speaker 1: than letting them go to the park or the beach

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Speaker 1: or whatever down the road with their friends.

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Speaker 2: Well, media has given us the idea that it's unsafe

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Speaker 2: for kids to walk to school, which it's not in

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Speaker 2: the vast majority of places, and to protect kids when

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Speaker 2: they're scared of something. And because I got this at

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Speaker 2: a talk the other day, Oh but if I let

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Speaker 2: my six year old go into the next aisle in

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Speaker 2: the grocery store to grab something for me, that they

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Speaker 2: might get kidnapped. Right, Nope, No, that's just not going

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Speaker 2: to happen. So I think that's the disconnect is we've

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Speaker 2: come to see the real world is really really dangerous

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Speaker 2: in an exaggerated way. But then because most parents did

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Speaker 2: not grow up with social media and smartphones, we are

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Speaker 2: overlooking the dangers of those platforms. Even if we use

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Speaker 2: social media in now our feet is not going to

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Speaker 2: look like our kids. We may not even you know,

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Speaker 2: fully process the effect of some of these things on

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Speaker 2: children and teens. So we've really underprotected kids in the

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Speaker 2: online world, overprotected them in the real world. We need

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Speaker 2: to bring things back into balance, so that real world

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Speaker 2: freedom part is part of that. So getting places on

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Speaker 2: your own, handing a ten year old to credit card

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Speaker 2: or some cash to go in the grocery store and

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Speaker 2: buy a few things. Even if you just want to

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Speaker 2: start at home, having your kids do their own laundry,

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Speaker 2: having them cook for the family every once in a while,

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Speaker 2: then bonus, you don't have to do their laundry or

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Speaker 2: cook that night. Everybody wins.

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Speaker 1: I love it. Have you got time for a lightning round?

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Speaker 2: I will try.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's see how we go thinking on your feet.

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Speaker 1: You can pass if you need to, And I'd just

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Speaker 1: love to get your take on some of these unfair

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Speaker 1: and fun questions. We're social media platform for adolescent mental health.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's a tough one. Either TikTok or.

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Speaker 1: Instagram one app that you wish had never been invented.

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Speaker 2: Oh, definitely, TikTok?

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Speaker 1: Can you say more on that? I know this is

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Speaker 1: a lightning round, but I would love for parents to

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Speaker 1: understand why that's such a I mean, that was a

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Speaker 1: definite there's no hesitation there, and I feel the same way.

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Speaker 1: Why do you say that.

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Speaker 2: There's a bunch of reasons. I'll be brief. It has

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Speaker 2: stickiest algorithm. Yeap, So people including adults, intend to spend

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Speaker 2: only a little time on it end up spending a

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Speaker 2: lot of time. If you look at negative content, it'll

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Speaker 2: show you more. That happens a lot to adolescence in particular.

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Speaker 2: And it's not an app that teens used to contact

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Speaker 2: their friends.

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Speaker 1: It's just short form TV.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it is, And so you know there's memes and

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Speaker 2: there's popular videos and so on that the kids talk about,

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Speaker 2: but they're not directly communicating with their friends on that app.

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Speaker 2: So for me as a parent, that's a really easy no.

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Speaker 1: Okay, back to the Lightning Round. Thank you for that

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Speaker 1: quick collaboration. If you could only enforce one of your

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Speaker 1: ten rules universally, which one would you choose.

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at my list of rules. It would probably

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Speaker 2: be no. Electronic devices in the bedroom overnight, because that's

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Speaker 2: for adults as well, because you can preserve sleep. That

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Speaker 2: just helps with with everything else. Although no social media

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Speaker 2: until sixteen is a close second. So way to go

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Speaker 2: to Australia.

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Speaker 1: Okay, nice, Do your own teenages follow all of your

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Speaker 1: ten rules.

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Speaker 2: They do, although there are some where we make exceptions

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Speaker 2: from time to time. One about the phones on vacation

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Speaker 2: being one place where sometimes you know, on the plane

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Speaker 2: or in the car, like fine, you know for half

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Speaker 2: of this you can be on your phone, but most

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Speaker 2: of the rest of them, Yeah, we followed. We followed

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Speaker 2: them pretty well.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Now they have occasionally tried to get around them, and

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Speaker 2: I describe those stories right exactly. I mean, that's what

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Speaker 2: you got to keep in mind, is you know, I

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Speaker 2: think it's so easy to go, oh my god, this

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Speaker 2: is impossible because your kids found a way around it.

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Speaker 2: That's okay. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of

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Speaker 2: the good. They may find their way around some things,

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Speaker 2: but you you hold firm on everything that you can.

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Speaker 2: You're still doing well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, just a few more. You've already answered this one,

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Speaker 1: but for emphasis, because we really did gloss over and

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Speaker 1: I asked the most important one, but I had the

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Speaker 1: question phones in bedrooms at night? Yes or no? Can

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Speaker 1: you just for emphasis answer that one again? Because it

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Speaker 1: really matters.

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Speaker 2: It does. I mean, the research is so clear on

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Speaker 2: phones in the bedroom overnight. I mean out of ten

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Speaker 2: US teens use their phone between midnight and five am,

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Speaker 2: when common sense media attract their phones on school nights,

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Speaker 2: on real not even weekend nights, on school nights. So

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Speaker 2: this is a really really big problem. Sleep is just

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Speaker 2: so it's so important for physical health, the mental health

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Speaker 2: technology can interfere with it even if the phone's off,

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Speaker 2: even if it's on. Do not disturb the presence of

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Speaker 2: that phone. Your brain knows it's there, and you don't

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Speaker 2: sleep as deeply.

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Speaker 1: Do you sleep with the phone in your bedroom?

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Speaker 2: Eck?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: And I almost said another word, No, I do not.

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Speaker 2: I have it out of the bedroom behind a closed door.

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Speaker 1: Okay, AI companions for kids over blind panic or legitimate concern.

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Speaker 2: Oh, definitely legitimate concern. I mean, do you want your

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Speaker 2: twelve year old's first romantic relationship to be with an

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Speaker 2: AI girlfriend? I'll just leave it at that, you know what.

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Speaker 1: I know this is a lightning around but I have

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Speaker 1: to quickly share an anecdote. I've got a TV show

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Speaker 1: here in Australia called Parental Guidance, Prime time top writing

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Speaker 1: parenting TV show, and we got kids to have some

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Speaker 1: AI companion chats with a well known and popular AI bot,

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Speaker 1: and the manipulative tactics and the exploitative tactics that the

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Speaker 1: bot used to keep kids chatting were simply astonishing. Like

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Speaker 1: the lack of ethics around this is phenomenal. So I

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Speaker 1: figured that you would say that, but I love hearing

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Speaker 1: it from other authority. Figures three more grip chats communication

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Speaker 1: tool or social anxiety generator.

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Speaker 2: So you mean like on WhatsApp or a text.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean like group chats has in like on

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Speaker 1: Instagram or I guess on WhatsApp as well, yeah, or

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Speaker 1: in Messenger, so you know the big the whole class

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Speaker 1: is involved in it, and we've got the we've got

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Speaker 1: the thing coming up on Friday night. And is it

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Speaker 1: a good communication tool or does it generate social anxiety?

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Speaker 2: So I think the group chat is better than algorithm

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Speaker 2: social media, but it depends on what it's used for.

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Speaker 2: If it is to communicate, here's when the next you know,

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Speaker 2: sport practice is awesome. But yeah, if it becomes performative,

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Speaker 2: if it becomes a time seeing, if it becomes thing

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Speaker 2: where you kids are showing off and trying to get

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Speaker 2: attention so on, then not so great either.

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Speaker 1: Okay, if a parent can only do one thing tomorrow

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Speaker 1: to improve their kids tech relationship, what is it?

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Speaker 2: Get the phone out of the bedroom?

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Speaker 1: Great? And lastly, complete this sentence. In ten years we'll

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Speaker 1: be looking back at how we gave kids smartphones at

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Speaker 1: age eleven and think.

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Speaker 2: What the heck are we thinking?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I feel that way already. I feel that way already,

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Speaker 1: Professor Twangy. I just I love when we get to talk.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking time out to chat

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Speaker 1: with an Australian audience and to share some of your

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Speaker 1: rules from the book Ten Rules for Raising Kids in

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Speaker 1: a High Tech World, How parents can stop smartphones, social

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Speaker 1: media and gaming for taking over their children's lives. As always,

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Speaker 1: it's a pleasure and really appreciate your time.

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Speaker 2: Thanks very much.

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Speaker 1: Professor Geene Twangy from San Diego State University is the

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Speaker 1: author of Ten Rules for Raising Kids in a High

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Speaker 1: Tech World. You can get it where wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your books. The Happy Families Podcast is produced by Justin

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Speaker 1: Ruland from Bridge Media. Mmhammonds provides research, admin and other support,

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Speaker 1: and if you'd like more info to make your family happier,

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Speaker 1: visit us at happy families dot com dot au