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Speaker 1: Well, as I said just a couple of moments ago.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty fiery yesterday in Parliament, with the Opposition

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Speaker 1: choosing question time to focus on the days from when

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Speaker 1: the fatal shooting of Kumen Joe Walker took place and

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Speaker 1: the charging of Constable Rolf. Several questions were asked of

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister about those comments around consequences flowing and

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Speaker 1: the perception of political interference. The Chief Minister, Michael Gunner,

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Speaker 1: has described a so called political campaign by the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police Association as malicious during question time, following on

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Speaker 1: from those questions from the Opposition leader Lea Fanocchiaro, who

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Speaker 1: joins me on the line right now. Good morning to you, Leah.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie and your listener.

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Speaker 1: Now, Lea, is this a desperate attempt by the opposition

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Speaker 1: to make or to take the Chief Minister's words Consequences

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Speaker 1: will flow out of context?

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Speaker 2: This is a ridiculous allegation by the Chief Minister and

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Speaker 2: I'm actually horrified at how hard he is going after

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Speaker 2: the Police Association, in Michael Gunner's own words, saying that

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Speaker 2: the Police Association have weaponized and deliberately taken his work.

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Speaker 2: Chief Minister's words out of context to use against him.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's an extraordinary diversion tactic and I'm not

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Speaker 2: surprised the government are trying to do this. They're they're

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Speaker 2: creating a situation where this instead of talking about the

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Speaker 2: substance of the role, investigation and trial, they're now turning

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Speaker 2: it into a fight between the Northern Territory government and

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Speaker 2: the territory's police associations. It's absolutely appalling. It's just distraction tactics.

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Speaker 2: At the end of the day, Michael Gunner got on

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Speaker 2: a plane with the Police Commissioner and the Police Minister,

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Speaker 2: flew five hours to you and to move together, stood

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Speaker 2: in front of a crowd of angry, upset, grieving people

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Speaker 2: and promised them an outcome that he cannot promise. He

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Speaker 2: impugned that there was police wrongdoing, and the very next day,

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Speaker 2: Constable Rolf is then charged with murder after previously being

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Speaker 2: told by police that he was cleared. We've got three

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Speaker 2: investigators saying that the haste in which they were moving

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Speaker 2: to charge was raising serious alarm bells for them. And

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Speaker 2: of course we've even got a decision by Justice Mildrin

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Speaker 2: which attributes the Chief Minister's comments and the former EYKA

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Speaker 2: Commissioner's comments as a reason why Constable Rolph could not

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Speaker 2: have a fair trial in Alice Springs. This is extraordinary, Katie.

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Speaker 2: It requires an independent inquiry and we will not stop

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Speaker 2: or be distracted by the Gunner government's smoke and mirror tactics.

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Speaker 1: Leah. I mean, I think you've outlined some of it there,

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Speaker 1: but I know that some people listening this morning will

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Speaker 1: be thinking do we need to keep talking about this?

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Speaker 1: Do we need to keep sort of you know, going

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Speaker 1: back over the Chief Minister's comments that consequences would flow,

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Speaker 1: he reckons he's been taken out of context. Why is

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Speaker 1: it so important that these questions get answered.

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Speaker 2: It's important for a number of reasons, And firstly, I

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Speaker 2: really want to try and debunk what the government are

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Speaker 2: trying to make people believe that it's okay that the

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Speaker 2: Chief this is comments are about the coronial. There is

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Speaker 2: nothing okay about that. If you take the Chief Minister

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Speaker 2: at his word that he said consequences will flow from

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Speaker 2: a coronial if you believe that, which many people don't,

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Speaker 2: but even if you do, it is not okay for

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Speaker 2: the Chief Minister two days after a police shooting to

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Speaker 2: prejudice the outcome of a coronial investigation, which might i

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Speaker 2: add Katie has not even happened yet, so by his

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Speaker 2: very words of continuing to perpetuate that his comments around

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Speaker 2: consequences will flow as relation to the coronial, it is

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Speaker 2: an absolute disaster in and of itself. He has impugned

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Speaker 2: wrongdoing by police ahead of that coronial and of course

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Speaker 2: promised to community that something negative would come out of it.

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Speaker 2: So that's the first issue. The second issue is this

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Speaker 2: has been a two and a half year indictment and

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Speaker 2: blant on our history. Our police force has suffered terribly

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Speaker 2: for this, and so has our community, and people have

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Speaker 2: more questions than their our answers. That four day period

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Speaker 2: will not be investigated thoroughly by anything other than an

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Speaker 2: independent inquiry. And the reason it's so important is because

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Speaker 2: we need to know as a jurisdiction that we are

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Speaker 2: never going to chart this course again. We have a

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Speaker 2: violent offender killed, we have a young police officer charged

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Speaker 2: with murder. In a very short period of time, we

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Speaker 2: have him then found not guilty of any charges whatsoever,

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Speaker 2: despite suffering a two and a half year ordeal. We

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Speaker 2: have serious questions by a judge that there is a

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Speaker 2: no ability for a man to have a fair trial

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Speaker 2: in Alice Springs, attributing part of that to actions of

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Speaker 2: our own Chief Minister and k Commissioner. I mean we

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Speaker 2: have the police force saying that you lead investigators were

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Speaker 2: concerned about what was going on. We need to clear

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Speaker 2: the air on this so that everyone can move on,

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Speaker 2: and the only way to do that is through an

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Speaker 2: independent inquiry.

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Speaker 1: Well, it doesn't sound as though it's something that you're

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Speaker 1: going to be letting go. By the sounds of it,

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Speaker 1: that discussion is going to be continuing, I'm assuming today

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Speaker 1: throughout Parliament a well.

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Speaker 2: Without question, Katie, this is I mean, there have been

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Speaker 2: royal commissions and inquiries in our country for less than this,

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Speaker 2: and the Chief Minister can try and sheep blame to me,

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Speaker 2: sheep blame to the Anti Police Association, but this is

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Speaker 2: just furthering his poor perception and his misunderstanding of how

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Speaker 2: his words could have impacted something. Now, for our police

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Speaker 2: and for our community to move on, we need to

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Speaker 2: shine a light on this issue. We need to make

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Speaker 2: sure we learn the lessons of what took place in

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Speaker 2: those four days and never ever chart this course again.

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Speaker 2: I think It's extraordinary also that on your show just

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Speaker 2: last week, Katie, you know, for the first time we're

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Speaker 2: hearing the Chief Minister use the excuse that the reason

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Speaker 2: he was in nuendumu was to deal with health reasons.

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Speaker 2: Yet he chose to get on a plane with the

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Speaker 2: Police Commissioner and Police Minister instead of the Health Minister

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Speaker 2: to address the crowd that day. You know, it just

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Speaker 2: doesn't stack up or past the pub test. And the

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Speaker 2: longer he keeps going, the more questions people have, the

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Speaker 2: more concern, the darker the loud and this would just

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Speaker 2: keep festering until it explodes.

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Speaker 1: Well, Lea, let's move along because we have got such

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Speaker 1: a busy hour lined up. We're going to be catching

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Speaker 1: up with the Police Association in just a couple of moments.

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Speaker 1: But we know that this is certainly not the only

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Speaker 1: issue which was debated on well in Parliament. On Day one,

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Speaker 1: crime was on the agenda after the Independent member Farra

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Speaker 1: lu and Robin Lamley moved a motion to implement a

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Speaker 1: wide ranging Parliamentary committee into crime in Central Australia amid

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Speaker 1: these growing concerns around a crime crisis in Alice Springs.

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Speaker 1: The Opposition supported the motion but it was still voted down. Lea,

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Speaker 1: Why did you think that it was important that this

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Speaker 1: went to heat.

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Speaker 2: It's really important that some think anything is done about crime.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about it for six long years. We've crunched

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Speaker 2: the numbers and it's shown that from twenty fifteen when

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Speaker 2: the CLP was in government, to twenty twenty one, the

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Speaker 2: six years of labor, that crime in Alice Springs house

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Speaker 2: breakings are up ninety nine percent, commercial breakins are up

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Speaker 2: one hundred and five five percent. Under later that town

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Speaker 2: is suffering chronically, as are many territories, but in Alan

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Speaker 2: Springs the debilitation of that community is profound and cannot

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Speaker 2: be overestimated. And so we really believe that having a

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Speaker 2: committee of the Parliament do an investigation into what urgently

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Speaker 2: needs to be done in Alice Springs could only lead

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Speaker 2: to good things. The Gunner government, of course, so can't

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Speaker 2: bring themselves to deal with this issue. They can't even

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Speaker 2: admit that there's a problem. It is the.

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Speaker 1: Government, right though, I mean, is the time for looking

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Speaker 1: at the issue and talking over and do they just

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Speaker 1: need to get on with that.

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Speaker 2: I think the problem is though they're not getting on

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Speaker 2: with it. What they've been standing up and saying repeatedly

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Speaker 2: in the media and in Parliament yesterday was that yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're doing a great job and these are all the

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Speaker 2: things we're doing well. Well, clearly that's not working. And

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Speaker 2: the fact that they can't even admit there is a

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Speaker 2: crime crisis, in my mind and in the minds of

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Speaker 2: many people, is the starting point. If you can't admit

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Speaker 2: you have a problem, what confidence is there that anyone

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Speaker 2: would go and try and fix it. If you think

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Speaker 2: it's not broken, you're not going to fix it. And

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Speaker 2: that's the problem with the government at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Now, Leah, before I let you go, we know that

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Speaker 1: today COVID legislation is on both the government and the

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Speaker 1: opposition's agenda, but you've got quite different legislation to present

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Speaker 1: than the government. I think it would be safe to

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Speaker 1: say that you're looking for more scrutiny of the Chief

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Speaker 1: Health Officer and the government is looking to give the

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Speaker 1: Chief Health Officer more powers. Am I correct that with

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Speaker 1: that view?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely perfect, Katie. We're trying to breathe more scrutiny into

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Speaker 2: the COVID process and the Gunner government are trying to

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Speaker 2: remove as much scrutiny as possible. Of course, we've got

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Speaker 2: this extraordinary decision by government to remove all of the

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Speaker 2: power which is only reserved and saved and to be

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Speaker 2: used when there is a state of emergency. They're going

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Speaker 2: to rip that out, give it to the Chow for

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Speaker 2: two years unfettered, unprecedented levels of power that impact people's rights,

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Speaker 2: liberties and their body and yet the government will not

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Speaker 2: be able to be held responsible for that. We just

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Speaker 2: think it is an absolute abuse of power. It is

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Speaker 2: a terrible, terrible indictment on scrutiny and transparency. We want

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Speaker 2: to see the Chow reporting to the Parliament regulate with

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Speaker 2: the evidence and the health advice that he's given governments

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Speaker 2: that people can have confidence in the decision he is making.

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Speaker 2: At the end of the day, he is a high

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Speaker 2: level official, a public servant who is responsible to no one,

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Speaker 2: whereas a government minister is responsible to the people. And

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Speaker 2: we need to know that that people of the Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory can hold this government to account for the decisions

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Speaker 2: it makes in controlling our lives.

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Speaker 1: LEA just lastly, before I let you go on this

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Speaker 1: situation that you continue to ask the Chief Minister about

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Speaker 1: around the charging of Constable Zach Rolf. Are we expecting

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Speaker 1: any questions to the likes of the Health Minister who

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Speaker 1: you pointed out earlier that didn't travel to you and

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Speaker 1: to move with the Chief Minister at the time, all

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Speaker 1: questions for the Police minister. Nobody has heard a great

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Speaker 1: deal from the Police Minister at this point.

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Speaker 2: No, we haven't heard really anything from the Police Minister

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Speaker 2: and I think the continues had to drag her out

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Speaker 2: of her silence and with a very simple three line statement.

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Speaker 2: I mean the police force is crying for leadership. You've

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Speaker 2: got a Chief Minister throwing them under the bus and

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Speaker 2: a police minister in hiding. It's absolutely appalling. I can

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Speaker 2: guarantee your listeners, Katie, that there will be multiple questions

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Speaker 2: over the next two weeks to multiple ministers on this

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Speaker 2: roof issue and we will not let this go. And

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Speaker 2: the whole community has a responsibility to hold the Gunner

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Speaker 2: government to account. They try and duck and weave and

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Speaker 2: hide from scandal all the time and this is just

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Speaker 2: the last straw. We have got to ensure that an

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Speaker 2: inquiry is called and held so that we can have

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Speaker 2: confidence in the system going forward with LEA.

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Speaker 1: Do we have any idea. Do we have any idea

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Speaker 1: how much an inquiry would cost?

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Speaker 2: No, I don't, Katie, And you know I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to hide from the fact that it would have a cost.

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Speaker 2: But I asked terr transis what's the cost of letting

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Speaker 2: this go? What's the cost to the damage to our

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Speaker 2: police force and the lack of confidence? What is the

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Speaker 2: cost to our community if we don't resolve this issue

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Speaker 2: once and for all. I think it can actually be

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Speaker 2: a very efficient inquiry. I'd like to see it done

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Speaker 2: before the coronial, Katie. I'd like it to be a

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Speaker 2: commissioner from interstate. The entire team who undertake that inquiry

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Speaker 2: has to be at total armed blenks from government and

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Speaker 2: from interstate, so that people can have confidence in the outcome.

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Speaker 2: And I think it can be done efficiently. But I

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Speaker 2: think the price of not doing this will be far

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Speaker 2: greater than the price of doing it.

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Speaker 1: Well, Opposition Leader Leah Finocchiaro, we appreciate your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. Take care everyone,