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Speaker 1: As much as I love the game of rugby league

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Speaker 1: so much, I can't lie and say that this game

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Speaker 1: hasn't had an association with this gendered violence problem.

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Speaker 2: Mali Silva is one of Australia's most up and coming

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Speaker 2: rugby league journalists. Her love for the game started practically

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Speaker 2: from the day she was born, which was just three

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Speaker 2: days before her dad won a premiership with the Canterbury

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Speaker 2: Bankstown Bulldogs. As a Dungutti and Gamillroy woman, storytelling has

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Speaker 2: been a part of Mali's indigenous Australian culture for over

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Speaker 2: sixty thousand years. As a proud supporter of the NRLW,

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Speaker 2: it only felt natural that telling stories about women's rugby

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Speaker 2: league is what Mally was destined to do. But now

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Speaker 2: she's dipped into long form storytelling to tackle some of

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Speaker 2: the biggest issues within the game. Welcome back to the

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Speaker 2: Female Athlete Project.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 2: I'm Sophie the producer here at teeth BAP and this

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Speaker 2: week Chloe caught up Marley following the release of her

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Speaker 2: new documentary Skin in the Game. Skin in the Game

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Speaker 2: examines the role that rugby league has played in Australia's

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Speaker 2: history of domestic and family violence and what the sport

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Speaker 2: can do to be part of the solution. We hope

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Speaker 2: you enjoyed this episode.

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Speaker 3: Marley Silva, Welcome to the Female Athlete Project.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Eoe. It's so nice to be here.

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Speaker 3: I'm really looking forward to chatting to you about your

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Speaker 3: story and your life to date. But an amazing doco

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Speaker 3: that has just come out, Skin in the Game. Do

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Speaker 3: we know we're not going to start with it.

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Speaker 1: We're going to go back, and we always go back.

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Speaker 3: I like going general chronological order. Yeah, can you tell

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Speaker 3: me what was Marley like as a little kid?

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Speaker 1: Marley as a little kid. I've got all these great

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Speaker 1: home videos that means I can, like actually hear her

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Speaker 1: voice when I think about her now. My mum was

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Speaker 1: really good at sort of capturing everything and inside the

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Speaker 1: four walls of her home, she was a performer. She

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Speaker 1: was always looking for a camera. She was always saying,

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Speaker 1: Mum and Dad, sit down, I've got something to show you.

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Speaker 1: Whether it was dragging my poor sister through some dance routine,

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Speaker 1: just you know, I don't know. We used to play

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Speaker 1: doctors and vets with our toys and stuff, and then

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Speaker 1: we'd show mom and dad everything we would do.

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Speaker 3: Did you charge them twenty cents?

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Speaker 1: I should have That's the one thing we didn't do.

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Speaker 4: I just like forced them through it.

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Speaker 1: I must have even realized then that it was pretty

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Speaker 1: painful children. But yeah, as a kid, I was always

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Speaker 1: really comfortable performing or being on a stage with a microphone.

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Speaker 1: Mum chucked me into acting classes really young. But the

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Speaker 1: irony was that she did that because as soon as

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Speaker 1: I would leave the house, I would not leave her side.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't talk to anyone. I was extremely shy. Wow,

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Speaker 1: which is so funny, right like this, But I found

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Speaker 1: there's a few parents I've spoken to who have kids

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Speaker 1: who are really similar, like they're very confident or they

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Speaker 1: just love that sort of having attention on them within

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Speaker 1: their family right, and then outside of it get quite

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Speaker 1: anxious or just really didn't like being around strangers. So

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Speaker 1: Mum was like, you can't be like that, you know,

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Speaker 1: at school and whatever. I want you to be confident

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Speaker 1: to talk to people. So she threw me into acting classes. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and even still like, I didn't like having one on

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Speaker 1: one conversations with people until I was about twenty, I reckon, wow.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but I've always felt.

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Speaker 1: Comfortable with a mic in hand or on stage. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a little bit of an insight into the kind

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Speaker 1: of kid.

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Speaker 3: I was and even now, Like, obviously you're very comfortable

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Speaker 3: in front of a microphone and camera, But would you

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Speaker 3: describe yourself as an introvert?

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Speaker 1: Probably, yeah, I think that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Maybe in earlier iterations of my career there would have

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Speaker 1: been people who weren't that surprised by that, but these

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Speaker 1: days it's definitely more of a surprise because I'm working

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Speaker 1: media and that's my job and I'm definitely way more

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Speaker 1: comfortable talking to people I've never met before. But it

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Speaker 1: was a real journey, like I think, I Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: still very much love to recharge on my own and

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Speaker 1: I'm totally comfortable with my own company and that sort

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Speaker 1: of stuff. But I actually there's quite a few people

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Speaker 1: I work with now who are in the same industry

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Speaker 1: who have really similar stories. Yeah, okay, So it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like when you've probably heard stand up Canadians talk

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Speaker 1: or get people's interactions with them and they're like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're not very you know, extroverted off the stage. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's common, yeah, okay, because we know we're putting on

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Speaker 1: some sort of act to do our job, so you

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Speaker 1: sort of feel a little bit detached from yourself.

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Speaker 3: And do you find like I find when I'm doing

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Speaker 3: that media in front of camera type stuff, the adrenaline

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Speaker 3: it takes, like I love it, but then like the

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Speaker 3: calm down afterwards. Yeah, it's like it's quite exhausting a

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Speaker 3: lot of the time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah it is. And then I'm also so wired, Like

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Speaker 1: after a footy game, you know, we get home probably

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Speaker 1: like ten thirty eleven, and it's been a big day

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Speaker 1: and I know I'm really tired, but I can't switch off.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, And you're like, oh god, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to think about that moment or whatever.

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Speaker 3: Where did you find a love for rugby league?

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Speaker 1: I was born into a love for rugby league. My

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Speaker 1: dad was a professional player, and so my earliest memories

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Speaker 1: are being at footy stadiums. You know, I think the

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Speaker 1: soundtrack to my childhood is kind of rules and chants

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Speaker 1: and you know, whistles, whoaing, Like that's very much what

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Speaker 1: I think of.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So dad won a premiership with the Bulldogs three weeks

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Speaker 1: after I was born.

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Speaker 3: Oh that soon after? Wow?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So I say I was a good luck charm obviously, surely,

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Speaker 1: but it just means that footy and my family have

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Speaker 1: always been really intertwined. So yeah, and it's also really interesting.

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Speaker 1: And I've been talking about this a lot obviously with

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Speaker 1: the docco having come out, but I haven't always been

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent in love with it. I was born

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Speaker 1: into it, and then around adolescence, I think partly fatigue

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Speaker 1: by being referred to as Rocket stored off my whole life,

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Speaker 1: which is my dad's nickname, and also just I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I think kind of being a newborn feminist at that

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Speaker 1: period of time and feeling like women weren't a part

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Speaker 1: of the sport of rugby league and I was a

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Speaker 1: bit angry about that, so I just thought, oh, it's

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Speaker 1: not really for me. So there would have been a

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Speaker 1: period of about three or four years where I just

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Speaker 1: didn't engage with it and I didn't feel like it

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Speaker 1: was a place for me. And it was only once

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Speaker 1: we started having women as part of the coverage and

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Speaker 1: then the kind of conversations about the NLW coming that

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, okay, maybe I'm into it again,

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Speaker 1: And then of course I've ended up working in it.

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Speaker 3: What did it look like for you as a young person,

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Speaker 3: obviously being surrounded by it, knowing your dad's involvement in

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Speaker 3: the game, did you ever want to play or be involved.

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Speaker 1: I always wanted to play, always, and I wasn't allowed to. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is, you know, ridiculous to think about now. But

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Speaker 1: I think a big part of the reason I wanted

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Speaker 1: to play. I mean, there's a reason I talk about

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Speaker 1: sport and I don't play it. I don't have the

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Speaker 1: sport like the sporting technique or prowess or I ad

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Speaker 1: my athletes a lot. I just have never had the talent, right,

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Speaker 1: But I wanted to be a regul league player. I

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Speaker 1: used to be like I want to be like Jonathan Thurston.

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Speaker 1: I want to be like Breaths because Aboriginal success on

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Speaker 1: screen at that period of time, with the exception of

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Speaker 1: Kathy Freeman in two thousand, was all Aboriginal men who

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Speaker 1: played sport, yes, And so that's I think that's why

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be it so badly. Like I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to be a footy player like my dad, because

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Speaker 1: that's what kind of success looked like to me in

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Speaker 1: my immediate surroundings. And then I saw myself partly in

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Speaker 1: a JT or A GI, because you know, they were

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Speaker 1: like my dad. So I think that's more where it

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Speaker 1: came from, you know, rather than actually wanting to play

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Speaker 1: the sport. I think I just wanted to be on

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Speaker 1: screen or be around footy in some way because that's

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Speaker 1: what I understood I could do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Did you find a love for storytelling early in

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Speaker 3: your life or is it something that's come a bit later.

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Speaker 1: I think that's something that's always been there. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: I often think about the fact that in Aboriginal culture,

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Speaker 1: we've all we've been doing is telling not what we've

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Speaker 1: been doing, but what we've been doing for over sixty

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Speaker 1: thousand years is telling stories, and that passing down of

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Speaker 1: an oral history is very much ingrained in every part

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Speaker 1: of our culture. And I feel like that's an attribute

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Speaker 1: that was sort of passed down to me from my ancestors.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, in those same sort of performances that I

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Speaker 1: was doing for my family as a young kid, I was.

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Speaker 1: Mum often talks about the fact that she stopped reading

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Speaker 1: us children's books by the time I was about four

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Speaker 1: or five because I was making up stories for me

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Speaker 1: and my sister and I that have diaries from that

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Speaker 1: era of me writing about fairies and dragons or dreams

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Speaker 1: that I'd had or I mean it's pretty difficult to

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Speaker 1: decipher with the spelling mistakes.

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Speaker 4: I get the ye, sure what I was trying for

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Speaker 4: and I was. And at school that's.

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Speaker 1: Where I flourished, was in English in writing and I

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Speaker 1: always just loved it. And then I think I studied

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Speaker 1: creative writing at university partly because my mum and dad

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Speaker 1: were just happy I was going to UNIU because they

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Speaker 1: never did and I had that freedom to kind of

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Speaker 1: do what I want, even though they tell me now

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Speaker 1: behind my back they were a bit like, oh, he's

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Speaker 1: gonna struggle to get a job. But it gave me

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Speaker 1: this freedom to explore, you know, telling other people's stories.

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Speaker 1: And then yeah that it's my favorite thing in the

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Speaker 1: world to do, is just to sit down and talk

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Speaker 1: to people and hear about them or yeah, I guess

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Speaker 1: tell stories that can make people think differently.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you set yourself the goal of wanting to go

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Speaker 3: to the Rugby World Cup in England?

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Speaker 1: Is that World Cup?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? How did you go about making that happen?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, gosh, you know what, it's so funny. I

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Speaker 1: I think that was the last time we sat down

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Speaker 1: and had a chat in front of a couple of cameras. Right,

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Speaker 1: I'd just done a bit of work, like social media

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Speaker 1: work with Women's Health magazine. They had reached out. I'd

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Speaker 1: really just been in the beginning of coming into telling

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Speaker 1: female athletes stories. I'd always been telling women's stories, mostly

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Speaker 1: aborage and women's stories. And during COVID, like so many people,

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Speaker 1: you sort of have that shift and you go, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what else can I do for me? It was very

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Speaker 1: much about a level of exhaustion that I was facing,

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Speaker 1: I think emotionally and spiritually so and the one thing

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Speaker 1: that was still happening in COVID was sport, right, which

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Speaker 1: is amazing. And then I started to kind of shift

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Speaker 1: away from that, done a little bit of writing, had

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Speaker 1: my first ever sports podcast with my friend and my sister,

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Speaker 1: and then Women's Health Magazine had reached out to me, Hey,

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Speaker 1: he's a bunch of nominees for our awards out there

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Speaker 1: available for interview, and we did a couple of interviews,

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Speaker 1: which is so much fun. And then I knew the

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Speaker 1: Rugby League World Cup was at the end of the

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Speaker 1: year in the North of England, and I just thought

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Speaker 1: gotta be away that I can go and do it.

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Speaker 1: And at first, like really transparently, I was like, maybe

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Speaker 1: I can like pitch to someone and they can pay

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Speaker 1: for me to go, And I didn't want to be paid.

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Speaker 4: I just wanted someone to come with my life.

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Speaker 1: That's important.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And then I.

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Speaker 1: Had pitched to a whole different bunch of people and

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Speaker 1: got nothing like And I understand why I didn't because

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Speaker 1: at that time I was so fresh in the space.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't getting like heaps of engagement online and I

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Speaker 1: sort of was a bit of a nobody in that space.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, okay, well, I'm due a holiday. My

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Speaker 1: mum thankfully works for Connas, so can be quite cheap anyway,

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Speaker 1: So why don't I just go to Positano for a

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Speaker 1: week and then I'll I've applied for the media accreditation

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Speaker 1: with Regular League World Cup. Then I'll go to Manchester

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Speaker 1: and I've reached out to all the media managers, not

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Speaker 1: of the Juillarus and the New Zealand side, but of

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Speaker 1: the smaller teams that had never played in a regul

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Speaker 1: League World Cup before. Got yeah, smartly, surely they have

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Speaker 1: some time and space to kind of sit down with

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Speaker 1: someone and do some social media content.

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Speaker 4: And that's what I.

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Speaker 1: Did, which honestly is probably one of the best things

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Speaker 1: I've ever done in terms of career progression. And I

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Speaker 1: think I only just shared that part of my story

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Speaker 1: recently because I had admittedly a brand asked me to

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Speaker 1: think of a time where I overcame an obstacle in

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Speaker 1: an innovative way, and I'm like, oh, well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't really an obstacle, and I was like, I

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Speaker 1: knew what I wanted to do, and I knew that

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Speaker 1: I cared about telling stories that had otherwise not been heard,

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Speaker 1: and I had, you know, my trusty old DSL camera

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Speaker 1: and some raise mics and let's just do it. And

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Speaker 1: it was like really well received and you know, again

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Speaker 1: not huge numbers or anything, but the girls I interviewed

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Speaker 1: really appreciated it. And there were like language barriers with

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Speaker 1: the Brazilian girls that we had to overcome, and you know,

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Speaker 1: the English players we had been like pretty disheartened from

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Speaker 1: getting I think flogged in their opening round or whatever,

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Speaker 1: but they were really passionate about talking about where they

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Speaker 1: want the Women Super League to go. They weren't getting

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Speaker 1: paid at that time, and the Canadian women were a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of mums who'd come back and like straight

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Speaker 1: into full contact, which is crazy. So I look back

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Speaker 1: at that and I'm like, that really helped me figure

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Speaker 1: out my voice in the space and also just cemented

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Speaker 1: that I really wanted to do this, like I really

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Speaker 1: wanted to be telling those stories. So yeah, when I

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Speaker 1: had my first kind of interview with nine then over

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Speaker 1: those couple of links, and I think that really showed

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Speaker 1: who I was better than any sort of resume. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: got yah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And so now you're in a position where you

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Speaker 3: get to regularly commentate and B side line. Yeah, how

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Speaker 3: did it go from that to getting this regular gear?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess at that point in time as well,

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Speaker 1: which is important context, I was at ABC Sport. They

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Speaker 1: just started doing a radio show with Declan Byrne, who

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Speaker 1: was a colleague of mine when I was doing Midnight

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Speaker 1: to dawns on Triple Day many years ago, and he

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Speaker 1: wanted to bring the youth voice to ABC Sport landscape.

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Speaker 1: So I just started doing sideline through them and all

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Speaker 1: of that sort of stuff. And then yeah, there was

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Speaker 1: this catalyst of this content at the Rugby League World Cup,

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Speaker 1: and then yeah, Channel nine kind of came to the

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Speaker 1: table and wanted to just have a chat with me

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Speaker 1: without making any promises, and at that point I kind

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Speaker 1: of yeah. I knew that nine was going to be

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Speaker 1: airing all the NLW games and I wanted to challenge

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Speaker 1: myself and I text who would become my boss the

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Speaker 1: day they announced that, saying, hey, congratulations, are you going.

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Speaker 4: To be airing all these games?

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to run the coffee this season. I'm ready

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Speaker 1: to to kind of go yeah, And he rang me

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Speaker 1: about thirty seconds later saying, well, you've ruined the surprise.

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Speaker 1: I just sent your off over to be a sideline

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Speaker 1: commentator to manage me. And I was like, what, like

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Speaker 1: got off the phone crying and just like what this

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Speaker 1: is sick? I get to, you know, be with nine

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Speaker 1: in the Wide Water Sports team and yeah, be on

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Speaker 1: the sideline consistently every week with the girls. And then

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Speaker 1: you know, this is my third year with nine and

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Speaker 1: this year now I'm doing a lot of men's games

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Speaker 1: on Friday nights and Sundays when they're interstate, so I'm

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Speaker 1: spending a lot of time in Brisbane. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: also have my podcast with the nine network, which is

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Speaker 1: me sitting down with players in their houses talking about

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Speaker 1: their families or their cultural identity or who makes them

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Speaker 1: who they are away from the sport. And I think

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Speaker 1: like all of that encaptures what I want to be doing,

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Speaker 1: which is again just telling stories that affect people differently.

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Speaker 1: And I also recognize that there's people who are my

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Speaker 1: colleagues who are far more well read and experienced and

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Speaker 1: understand like the technical elements of rugby league, who are

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Speaker 1: there for that analysis. And it's nice. I feel like

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Speaker 1: the people I work with really understand that I'm not

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Speaker 1: there to do that. I'm there to be Like, you know,

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Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, I had my arms around a

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Speaker 1: crying mom before a Sunday boot in Melbourne. You know

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Speaker 1: that's me. This is my space. I like to do

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Speaker 1: the Yeah, the family stuff.

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Speaker 3: I guess, which is that stuff that people viewing really

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Speaker 3: love right like that that's a huge part of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it's definitely a part that engages

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Speaker 1: people who aren't huge rub league nuffies or any person

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Speaker 1: who just casually absorbs sport. I think the stuff that

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Speaker 1: we remember, and I mean the Olympics are the perfect

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Speaker 1: example of this. It's those tear jerking moments. It's the

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Speaker 1: family moments I relate to, yeah, because, as.

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Speaker 4: I said, no sporting talent, But I can relate to.

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Speaker 1: Feeling really proud of someone I love achieving their dream.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I love that sort of elopment. Or again,

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Speaker 1: when I'm interviewing players and they're talking about how becoming

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Speaker 1: a father has completely changed how they look at sport

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Speaker 1: or how they look at a winner or a loss.

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Speaker 1: Even though I don't even have kids, I can still

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Speaker 1: feel that emotional empathy, and you just think of them

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Speaker 1: differently every time I interview someone like you know what's

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Speaker 1: so funny. The last time I was in the Northern Beaches,

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Speaker 1: I was interviewing the Chavoi bitch brothers, right or three,

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Speaker 1: the three who played rugby league, and they were just

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Speaker 1: so beautiful and warm, and they're lovely boys, are really

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Speaker 1: community minded, passionate about their family kind of men. I

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Speaker 1: have hated manly my whole life, of course.

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Speaker 4: Like that is the biggest stereotype of all time.

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Speaker 1: We've always hated manly, like as a club like not

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Speaker 1: so anti manly, I find myself because I love because

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Speaker 1: I just think they and you.

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Speaker 4: Kind of go.

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Speaker 1: That's I mean, no, I don't expect anyone to kind

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Speaker 1: of feel sympathetic to any team they hate. That's fine,

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Speaker 1: that's part of sport. But you just look at it

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Speaker 1: differently when you think about this person who's out on

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Speaker 1: the field as a human being and you hear about

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Speaker 1: them talking about you know, their their beautiful late grandmother

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Speaker 1: who you still love hearing the name Travoyevich on screen

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Speaker 1: because it was the only time she heard like a

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Speaker 1: serbian name on television, and you're like, oh, that's so cool,

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Speaker 1: Like that's that's the craziest thing that I get to

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Speaker 1: experience now. And I hope that that's what people take

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Speaker 1: away from those sorts of conversations.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that. I think from a tea Fatlin's

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Speaker 3: probably slightly different to like the team rivalry, But I

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Speaker 3: love the power of storytelling in connecting people to someone

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Speaker 3: so that when they then see them compete, they feel

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Speaker 3: that sense of connection. Like you said, they might not

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Speaker 3: be like hugely devoted to that sport or of whatever

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Speaker 3: it is, but they feel that connection to that person

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Speaker 3: is quite a powerful thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think we see that more broadly in women's

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Speaker 1: sport now. I mean, we talk about Matildas all the time,

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Speaker 1: but that's the most significant kind of cultural moment in

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Speaker 1: women's sport in this country right. And the whole response

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Speaker 1: to the Mardi shi Gold comments is because we feel

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Speaker 1: like we know these girls intimately, these women who have

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Speaker 1: done everything they've done with the Matilda's, and we see

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Speaker 1: real world impacts of our nieces or our young girls

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Speaker 1: around us, and even the young boys around us. I

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Speaker 1: have friends whose younger brothers will fight to be Sam

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Speaker 1: Kerr on FIFA. Now you know that stuff. We felt

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Speaker 1: so passionate and all immediately were like, ahh, this is

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Speaker 1: not sweet because of that emotional, really personal kind of

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Speaker 1: connection we have, and I think that's definitely like the

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Speaker 1: best solution to people who don't engage with that usually

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Speaker 1: or have previously let those sorts of attitude kind of

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Speaker 1: just be passed by without a second thought.

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Speaker 3: That was such a it was a really big milestone.

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Speaker 3: I think that Marty shar Gold response, like the way

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Speaker 3: that that video was so Rosa Malone originally shared that

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Speaker 3: audio clip and I reached out to her and I said,

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Speaker 3: can we collab with you? And it literally her post

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Speaker 3: blew up and it was just really quite amazing to

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Speaker 3: see like the power of social media, people like coming

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Speaker 3: to the comment sections, tagging the right people calling it out,

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Speaker 3: sharing it on their story, and then it's obviously it

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Speaker 3: just gained a huge amount of traction what he said

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Speaker 3: in a negative light, but to see I think the

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Speaker 3: repercussions of it, to see actual action come off the

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Speaker 3: back of it, because I think we've probably seen this

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Speaker 3: public grounds well calling things out like that, but a

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Speaker 3: lot of time we haven't actually seen the repercussions. So

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Speaker 3: for that example to actually be out there, I think

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Speaker 3: it's really powerful moving forward that people in those positions

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Speaker 3: are going to have to think about what they're saying.

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Speaker 1: It set the bar of expectation for people like myself.

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Speaker 1: You're a part of the broadcast landscape, like that line

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Speaker 1: in the sand of yeah, that's not sweet you go

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Speaker 1: on is really important to establish, and I think there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of other areas where that needs to happen,

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Speaker 1: you know, not just in broadcast, but I think in

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Speaker 1: sports administration or in particular playing groups as well. It's

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Speaker 1: that line in the sand, this is not acceptable and

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Speaker 1: we don't want yours part of our brand. It's a

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Speaker 1: smart business decision as well, because like who wants to engage.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if Mara Shugold's demographic was.

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Speaker 4: Particularly stuwed towards people who get about women's sport.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, But you know, Triple M goes, yeah, no, we

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Speaker 1: understand that we have a position in sports media and

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Speaker 1: that's not what we want to be a part of.

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Speaker 1: So good.

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Speaker 3: There's also what are they called MF Witches. Have you

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Speaker 3: seen that Instagram page? Yes, so they they went out

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Speaker 3: and they got all of their followers to contact the advertisers,

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Speaker 3: which is part of their strategy, which is clever, very clever,

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Speaker 3: because if you're calling out these broadcasters and action isn't

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Speaker 3: happening calling out the advertisers, And there's also their red

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Speaker 3: angles them. That's a way to go, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. I know they're quite an interesting group. I

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Speaker 1: think they're approaching a really big fish at the moment. Okay, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: that's what I've heard regularly on the radio landscape. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah.

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Speaker 4: Which is interesting.

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Speaker 1: I mean again, like there's always that thing where it's like, oh,

436
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,160
Speaker 1: you know, there's all this outrage and blah blah blah.

437
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: People are sort of opposed to that, but it's like, actually,

438
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 1: we just want things to be better. And of course

439
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 1: sometimes like the whole yeah arguing and kind of how

440
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 1: hectic it can get on social media as well is

441
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 1: not something I want to be around all the time.

442
00:22:55,280 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: But in clear cut instances like that, it's like, yeah, sweet, yeah,

443
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: we'll solve that. Keep you having Yeah, exactly. Let's talk

444
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 1: about your documentary. Yes, firstly, congratulations, thank you. Where did

445
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: the seed come from for Skin in the Game? So

446
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 1: the seed of the Skin in the Game idea comes

447
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: from my dad's story. I'd always wanted to tell his

448
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: story in a bigger format, And yeah, it's bizarre that

449
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 1: it's become documentary. I don't know. Like again, if you'd

450
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: ask that, you know, five year old dancing around the

451
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 1: room Mali, if she would do something like that, I

452
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: think she would be like what the hell? But it

453
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 1: was again during COVID, I was doing some freelance research

454
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 1: producing for a production company, which I didn't even know

455
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: what that was, but they got me to do it

456
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 1: right and we needed to make money anyway we could.

457
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 1: But it's this amazing production company called Southern Pitches. They're

458
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: female founded and led love that and that's, you know,

459
00:23:55,800 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: I've come to understand pretty rare in the industry, and they,

460
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 1: like the group of women who work there, just were

461
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 1: really passionate about learning about my story. And I told

462
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: them how my dad grew up in Western Sydney and

463
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: Housing Commission in a household marred by domestic violence, and

464
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: the thing that saved him is rugby League and what

465
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: he's been through and overcome and the life he was

466
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: able to provide for me and my sister is something

467
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: that I'm eternally grateful for and that we as an

468
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: immediate family talk about quite a bit because my mum

469
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: grew up in a really similar situation. So the two

470
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: of them together have been this sort of powerful team

471
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: and I wanted to tell his story and show that

472
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: kind of inspirational message. And it was very much through

473
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 1: their suggestion that we think there's a documentary here because

474
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: now you're working in rugby League. Yeah, this is like

475
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 1: the continuing of the legacy and what does that mean

476
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: more broadly? And so now I've worked in live television

477
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 1: for a couple of years, you might think that there's

478
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 1: crossover between live television and long form, but they are

479
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 1: not the same. It is a very different, two very

480
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 1: different umbrellas here live television. It happens very quickly. You

481
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: can kind of do it and move on long form.

482
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 1: I've been working on Skin in the Game for three years.

483
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 3: Wow.

484
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: And that also means that one my life has changed

485
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 1: quite a lot in the last three years has changed

486
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: a lot. I was just barely doing sideline commentary for

487
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: radio at the point that we started doing it, and

488
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: you know, now it's like properly my full time job.

489
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 3: Wow.

490
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 1: And the landscape in Australian society has changed in three

491
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: years as well. And what's interesting, I was talking to

492
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: a colleague of mine today who said he's just started

493
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 1: watching Skin in the Game and he was really surprised

494
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 1: because it's not what he thought it was about at all,

495
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: because when I'd originally spoken to him about it, Oh,

496
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: it was something very different. It was Dad's story. It

497
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 1: was the continuation of the legacy and the power of

498
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 1: ragby League in terms of telling positive stories about Aboriginal culture.

499
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 1: And yeah, me kind of taking the baton from dat

500
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: and moving forward. However, we start filming, and I also

501
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: wanted to always talk about the future of the game

502
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 1: being the NLW, which is something I wholeheartedly believe. But

503
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: this time last year we were in this peak of

504
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: a crisis in terms of media coverage. This is not

505
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: changed at all with how many women were dying at

506
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 1: the hands of their partners, and the spike engendered violence

507
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: in a really horrific way in this country and people

508
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: were really horrified, rightly so, and feeling a little bit hopeless,

509
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 1: like what can we do about this? So because of

510
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 1: that external context that shapes this part of the story,

511
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: yea one thing that we cannot turn away from. We can't.

512
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 1: As much as I love the game of rugby league

513
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: so much, I can't lie and say that this game

514
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 1: hasn't had an association with this gendered violence problem.

515
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, you only need.

516
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: To google it. And there's so many headlines and so

517
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: many instances of players being having allegations against them or

518
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: ending up in the court because of domestic violence. So

519
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: looking at that feeling really uncomfortable with it, but wanting

520
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: to find a positive way to look at the past

521
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: and reconfigure to be a bit of a leader in

522
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 1: changing our attitudes towards women and girls more broadly in

523
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: the future was sort of where we landed.

524
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 4: And you know, there's a few things that I.

525
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: Had sort of assumed for a few years, but being

526
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: able to speak to experts academics in the space who

527
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: really reiterated the fact that the more that we see

528
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: female athletes treated equally, paid equally, their domestic competitions growing,

529
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 1: and more women in positions of leadership in sport, the

530
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: better it is for changing attitudes towards women and girls

531
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: in Australia.

532
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 4: Amazing the science is there. I mean, that's what I thought,

533
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 4: but thank you glad. We really glad that we could

534
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 4: confirm that.

535
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 1: So that's essentially what Skin in the Game became about.

536
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: So starting with the fact that the sport has not

537
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 1: been good enough in the past, there's a lot of

538
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: stereotypes that are associated with it, and you know, there's

539
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: also really positive stories in the game, like my dad's

540
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: where it was a solution to experiencing domestic violence as

541
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: a child, a way of getting out of there. But

542
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: also importantly the emergence of the women's game, it being

543
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: the fastest growing part of the game. The neralw expanding

544
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: that the more that we help that continue to grow,

545
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: and the more that we encourage the male playing group

546
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: to be open and vulnerable to not adhere to that

547
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: ultra masculinity, to not feel like they have to be

548
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: this big, tough rugby league player says, just rub some

549
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: dird in it when they're struggling, the better it is

550
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: for all of us. So it was really like eye

551
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: opening to kind of go through that whole journey and

552
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: speak to former players, to current players in the male

553
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: playing group, in the female playing group, and even some

554
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: former administrators who kind of, you know, for the most part,

555
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, this makes total sense that you want

556
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: to have this conversation through the lens of the sport

557
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: and feel quite optimistic about it. So it was a

558
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: big task. There's been a few people who kind of go, oh, god,

559
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: like that's a bit heavier and deeper than what I

560
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: thought the story was going to be, or were you

561
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: scared about it? And the answer is, of course I

562
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,719
Speaker 1: was scared, because it's important. If you're not afraid, you're

563
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:56,239
Speaker 1: probably not pushing hard enough. And the best thing I

564
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: think is from the feedback that I've gotten from some

565
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: journalists that I've spoken to, just people who've watched it,

566
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: is this is not burning down the house. Yeah, it's

567
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: I said, Well, they can't burn down the house because

568
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: I'm inside the house, but I want, you know, to

569
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: fix some door hinges and open the windows and let

570
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: more people in, because I know that we are a

571
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: sporting nation, and often the only way we respond to

572
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: big social conversations and understand it and like do something

573
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: off the back of it is through like talking about

574
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: it through the lens of sport.

575
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 3: I love that concept. We've been inside the house. I

576
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 3: think as an athlete, my experience has been particularly with

577
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 3: teeth at this real struggle sometimes with calling things out. Yeah,

578
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 3: and I think that there would be a lot of

579
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 3: parallels that this is your place of work. Yeah, you

580
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 3: have relationships that you have now built over a number

581
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 3: of years. Was that a real battle throughout the recording process?

582
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting when you're in the kind of filming

583
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: blocks that we did this in. I was just all

584
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: in and not thinking about anything else. I was like

585
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: getting quite genuinely frustrated with why aren't you thinking about

586
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: this or why are you saying this is just business

587
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: and all this sort of stuff and even yes and

588
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: reluctance or whatever not that we experienced a lot of it.

589
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: To be completely honest with you, like most people were

590
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: very open to having the conversation, you know, even getting

591
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: Peter Landy's at the end, which is like a huge

592
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: get which we did not think was going to happen,

593
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,239
Speaker 1: like it's portrayed in it as like I find like

594
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: I've just got this chat and did set like twelve

595
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: hours before we were there. I got the yeah, okay,

596
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: we're locked in for this time. So crazy, And then

597
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: he was really generous and I think the most interesting

598
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: conversation I had because I pushed him and he pushes

599
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: back at me, but he's ultimately really receptive and he's like,

600
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: if this is what the people want, that's what we're

601
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: going to get. So I think he's a very clever

602
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: businessman in terms of listening to the people and wanting

603
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: to get stuff done. So I was really I found

604
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: myself feeling very hopeful coming out of that. But it, yeah,

605
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: so once you're in it, it's like dead set, just

606
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: like doing the interviews back to back and getting things

607
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: sort of done. You're not thinking about the Bruto repercussions,

608
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: and then it was sort of the film's done, and

609
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: now I start to go, oh, okay, what are some

610
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: people going to think? Or is this going to be

611
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: perceived the right way, because I remember when I was

612
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: studying at university, I had a very clever lecturer say

613
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: to me, when you have something published, she was talking

614
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: about writing at that time, you can't. You have to

615
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: let go completely of what you expect people to think,

616
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: because you can't control how people absorb or respond to

617
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: any kind of story. And I kept having that in

618
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: my mind, and I was like, I know what the

619
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: point of this is. I know what it ultimately says

620
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: or what I want people to think it says, but

621
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: I can't control what people think. So that was a

622
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: bit of a battle couple of months before it came

623
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: out right. I kind of was like, I don't want

624
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: people to think that I'm shooting on Rugby League because

625
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: I'm not, Like I'm If I really had a problem

626
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: with it, I wouldn't work in it, Like I wouldn't

627
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: have anything to do with it. It's because I know how

628
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,719
Speaker 1: good it is, and I know that there is this

629
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: huge shift in the male playing group as well, because

630
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: of my personal relationships with a lot of the players,

631
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: and again the conversations I get to have through my

632
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: podcast that I'm like, it's there, It's there. It's just

633
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: about us sort of putting the mirror up, and I

634
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: would say that, Yeah, the biggest obstacle is probably from

635
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: like I would say, most other sporting bodies, most other

636
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: institutions of power in this country. There's a certain type

637
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: of person who has had the power for a very

638
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: long time and who still holds the power. And diversifying

639
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: who has that power, particularly through the lens of having

640
00:33:55,520 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: more women in leadership, is probably the most difficult thing

641
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: we need to keep working towards, I think more than anything. So, yeah,

642
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: it's been a journey, Like, definitely moments of doubt, but

643
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: now it's out in the world. I'm like, yeah, no,

644
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: people get this for the most part.

645
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. The really interesting battle I think in this gender

646
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 3: equity space and push for equity is this idea from

647
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 3: a lot of men and boys that they're being threatened,

648
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,479
Speaker 3: their powers being taken away. They're constantly told that they're

649
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 3: in the wrong and they're doing the wrong thing. Have

650
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 3: you seen adolescents on it?

651
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: Oh, oh my god, I can't stop thinking about it.

652
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 3: Was that really interesting timing for the release of that

653
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 3: with your doco just around like the conversations that that

654
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 3: isn't like my algorithm is I mean, it's probably because

655
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 3: of the work that I do, but has flooded with

656
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 3: these conversations.

657
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: It is really interesting timing. I think that I think,

658
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: like I said, the mightishe gold comments. I also think

659
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: that off the back of Las Vegas conversations, immediately turning

660
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 1: into the delary is not being there in twenty twenty six.

661
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,439
Speaker 1: And again the sort of overwhelming responses to those sorts

662
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: of things really reiterates to me that we are at

663
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: a point in time where we can have these conversations

664
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: and we do realize this problem and we you know,

665
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: for the most part, most people want to do good.

666
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: That's something I firmly believe. And the more that they're

667
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: seeing sort of how this is impacting the next generation,

668
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: the red peel stuff, the cell stuff, all that kind

669
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:34,439
Speaker 1: of rhetoric, I don't know, there's a sense of urgency there,

670
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: and I think that that's yeah, it's quite poignant. And

671
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: there's been a little bit of that throughout the three

672
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: year journey of like we got green lit like two

673
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: days after I found out I was signing with nine

674
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 1: you know by NIITV right, like we're just crazy. And

675
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: then last year we're about to hit our final filming block,

676
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: and then there's this spike of all these horrific stories

677
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: of women dying at the hands of their partner, and

678
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 1: we're like, ah, this is where we need to go.

679
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 1: And then now as it was coming out, and then

680
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: I just see this like online ground swell of like

681
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: we need to do better. For whether it's just like

682
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: everyday life experiences of young men, like the sort of

683
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: conversations we see come out of adolescence or specifically from

684
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 1: a sporting lens, a few of the things that have happened,

685
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 1: you know, both in rugby league and more broadly. I

686
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: would also say there was a case of a former

687
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 1: NROL player who was in court with domestic valance allegations

688
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: and they were dropped because of his partner being afraid

689
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: to shot to court from my understanding from the readings,

690
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: and I think I was deeply disappointed with the response

691
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: from against some of the powers that be that sort

692
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: of said, well, this revealing the loophole in the no

693
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: fault stand down rule. That means that person is probably

694
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: clear to play. So I think all of that it

695
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: feels like, yeah, it's all the perfect timing for a

696
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: conversation like this to be sparked by something like skin

697
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: in the game or taken further, I think that the conversation,

698
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 1: I would correct myself and say the conversation has already

699
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: very much been sparked. But I think it also situates

700
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: the audience of the doco to completely understand why the

701
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: documentary was taken in the direction it was.

702
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 3: You've touched on the NLW the power of it, and

703
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 3: I see, like, I think the way the competition has

704
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 3: expanded that Obviously, the early early seasons were like almost

705
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 3: a bit of a novelty, right because it was like

706
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 3: four games or something. Yeah, like it was tiny. But

707
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 3: I think the rate of expansion, in my opinion, has

708
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 3: been quite a healthy thing for the game, for the

709
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 3: pathways and talent and things like that. If we take

710
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 3: a look at women in rugby league more broadly, what

711
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 3: can be done better and also looking from the lens

712
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 3: of what can be done better for diverse women in

713
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 3: those spaces as well.

714
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: I would say on a real practical level, we often

715
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: talk about their pay disparity when it comes to the

716
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: NRLW or to any women's domestic competition, and there's a

717
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: lot of like the chicken or the egg. Oh, the

718
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: girls have got to make more money before they can be.

719
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 3: Paid so much I want to silence basic economics that

720
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 3: should not be allowed to be commented anywhere.

721
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, and that's really infuriating.

722
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: But when I've spoken to some of the players, I

723
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: think a really important part that is often missed in

724
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: that conversation is, you know, really what they would like

725
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: is their strength and conditioning coaches, physio's assistant coaches, that

726
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: full holistic support system, to be paid full time.

727
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 3: Yes.

728
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 1: I have a sister who was an NLW physio for

729
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: one season and she couldn't continue to commit to it

730
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: because what she was being offered money wise was not

731
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: sustainable and she was far better off working in the

732
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: clinic that she works in full time instead of traveling

733
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 1: and spending all this time and effort on the girls

734
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: who she loves so much. But it just was not

735
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 1: sustainable for her. And I'm like, of course, that makes

736
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: so much sense as much as everyone goes, oh, well,

737
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: they're part time, but they can maintain their fitness and

738
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: they do lots of training, and they spend their whole

739
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: twelve months of the year being primed and prepped as

740
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: professional rugby league players. So how important it is to

741
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: have a full time physio and all of those other

742
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: support stuff I just said on call for twelve months

743
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: of the year. I think is one hundred percent the

744
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: most important thing in terms of a next step in

745
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: terms of money, because the money chat is the huge thing.

746
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: And I think after the skin and the game journey

747
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: and multiple conversations that I've had with women who have

748
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: been in leadership in sport, but there's very few and

749
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: far between when it comes to rugby league. Unfortunately, that's

750
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: the next frontier as well. We need to have more

751
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 1: women who are encouraged to go and take on leadership

752
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,399
Speaker 1: positions in the sport and then are supported as they do.

753
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: So Pe and I ask him this in the documentary

754
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: he did with the Australian Rugby League Commision put forward

755
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: proposal that there would be gender quotas in the license

756
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: for rugby league clubs with their boards, so they would

757
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: have to have at least thirty percent women on their boards.

758
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: Peter goes, well, I'd actually like it to be fifty percent.

759
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: I said, my guy, let's go then, But the problem

760
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: was that the club's actually pushed back and they cited

761
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: problems with member elected, board positions and et cetera. But

762
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: there's got to be a way to get around that,

763
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: because the more that the women's game grows, it's really

764
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 1: easy to sort of rest on your laurels and go, look,

765
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: the girls game is great, and the one hundred percentity

766
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: is and it's gotten to a point where it is

767
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,439
Speaker 1: just like the way that men talk about it.

768
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 4: To me, it's just.

769
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: Completely changed and it's so exciting. And that's fully on

770
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: the back of the girl's talent, you know more than

771
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: anything that they're really just drawing people in, which is

772
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: what everyone tells us. We need to do this frustrating

773
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: but in all order to maintain that in order to

774
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: also continue to build environments at each of the clubs,

775
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: even the ones without NLW teams as yet, where women

776
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 1: are supported and that culture is really positive and there's

777
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: a really smart business brain that's going. Again, the fastest

778
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 1: growing part of the game is the women's Every club

779
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: is going to have an NLW team. We need to

780
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 1: build those pathways. We need to ensure that by the

781
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: time our team does get there, they can be full

782
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 1: time athletes, and that has to come from female leadership.

783
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 4: So I would say.

784
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: Those are the two sort of structural things that need

785
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: to come from the sport itself, and then for the

786
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: average person, it's about showing up for the girls. Yeah,

787
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: And you know, I sort of made this point when

788
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 1: the whole conversation about the Juillarus being acts from Vegas

789
00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 1: came about, and I got some interesting backlash for even

790
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: saying this, which is from Yeah, you can imagine you

791
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: would get this backlash from around me not understanding that

792
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's not good for the girls game

793
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,439
Speaker 1: if if there's no people watching, or if at school

794
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: lines like that, and blah blah blah. I'm like, I

795
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: don't care. My point is on this that it's one

796
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: thing for us to be like, what the hell like,

797
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: you can't cut the girls. They just got there, and

798
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: of course where the last one's in them the first

799
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: one now always I'm like, whatever, Vegas is one thing.

800
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm like super supportive of Vegas

801
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 1: at all. It's very fair, But I would say, if

802
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: you feel outraged by that, and if you feel frustrated

803
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 1: with maybe, yeah, some of the issues that remain in

804
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: the sport, or in sport more broadly, it's about showing

805
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: up for the girls when they are around, come to games,

806
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: watch games, listen to games on radio, make sure you're

807
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: following all the girls. I think, from me, from my perspective,

808
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 1: what I take responsibility for moving forward is continuing to

809
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: create more space or fighting for more space to tell

810
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,320
Speaker 1: the girls stories in mainstream media. I think that's something

811
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 1: that I probably didn't do good enough last year or

812
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: didn't have the space to do good enough. So that's

813
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 1: certainly what I want to continue doing. But it's about

814
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: and for as long as there's that the girls need

815
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: to make money in order to be paid money, we

816
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: also need to keep showing up for them. And I

817
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: think if people know that in doing that, they're helping

818
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: build this future that has that direct impact on the

819
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: next generations attitudes towards gender violence, respect for women. I

820
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: think that motivates you. I know that motivates me, like

821
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: knowing that that social change element can really be a

822
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: part of the byproduct of supporting women's sport.

823
00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

824
00:43:58,000 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

825
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 3: I ask everyone who on the show, what is your

826
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 3: favorite failure? Ooh ooh, and we can go to a

827
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 3: different question if you need a minute or two favorite failure.

828
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 1: Well, you know, as an eighteen year old, I started

829
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: like my work career in the nonprofit sector and was

830
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: working in that space, and by age twenty was the

831
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: co CEO of a charity which was like an apprenticeship

832
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 1: program for twelve months, but they called me a coco,

833
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: which is a whole lot of kettle of fish. And

834
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: I was really like, I'm going to be the CEO

835
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: of a charity one day, and I'm going to try

836
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: and change the world that way and do all that

837
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 1: sort of stuff, and completely burnt myself out and failed

838
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: at that hard And that's the best possible thing that

839
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 1: could have happened, because I think that I would have

840
00:44:55,000 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: been I think I able to influence change far more

841
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: effectively while I'm not running around talking to politicians asking

842
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: for money. Got Yeah, I'm able to tell the stories

843
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: that I want to tell and help direct people of

844
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: where they can go and to do the right thing.

845
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 1: And I would not have gone down this path if

846
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: I hadn't failed miserably when it comes to the non

847
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: not for profits area of work that I was doing.

848
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 3: Yeah.

849
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:24,760
Speaker 1: Right.

850
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 3: I really loved the opportunity on the podcast to branch

851
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 3: out and speak to people who aren't athletes and we've

852
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 3: it's been received really well. Do you have advice for

853
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 3: a young person listening or a grown adult listening who

854
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 3: might want to follow in your footsteps?

855
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say the story of me going to

856
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: the Rugby League World Cup is probably the best kind

857
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: of case study I can say for I mean, yeah,

858
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of moments like that in my

859
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: career where I've either just said yes to something or

860
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 1: just gone and done it myself that have helped me

861
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: get to where I am. I've always found it differ because, yeah,

862
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: occasionally I do get a young girl who's maybe just

863
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: gotten into journalism study a university or something of Oh,

864
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: I want to do what you do? How did you

865
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: do it? And I'm like it. None of it was conventional,

866
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: but because of the power of social media, because if

867
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: you know, you can make it pretty decent podcast with

868
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:22,240
Speaker 1: pretty cheap equipment. You can use your iPhone to shoot

869
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 1: some stuff. And I think that don't be afraid to fail,

870
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: don't be afraid to put out a whole bunch of

871
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 1: content or to get things wrong, because yeah, it's a

872
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: real journey, and the more that you're putting out there,

873
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: the more you learn about what works. For you, and

874
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: the more you can refine your voice, and then yeah,

875
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,919
Speaker 1: I think don't ever I And this might be controversial.

876
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:54,439
Speaker 1: A lot of people go, oh, like, who's the person

877
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: you want to be like? Or you know, who's your

878
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: inspiration or who's your hero or if you did it

879
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: like I'm more of the Matthew McConaughey kind of lens, right,

880
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: Except it's not about disrespecting the people who've come before me.

881
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: There's some that I just admire so much, or there's

882
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 1: elements of what they've done that I really keep in

883
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: my mind or I'm trying to chase, but I'm not

884
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: trying to be anyone else. I've never looked at someone

885
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 1: in the media landscape and going I want to be

886
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: like her. I've never done that. And that's not because

887
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: I'm arrogant. It's because I know I will never be

888
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 1: that person. So it's about being your best self. And

889
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: I think, especially in media, you have to have a

890
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 1: unique voice because you might get a few journalism opportunities

891
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 1: or presenting opportunities, but you get to hold onto those

892
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 1: opportunities and get more of them. If no one else

893
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: can do what you do, if you're completely different and

894
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: each of us is very unique, so don't kind of

895
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: try and become this uniform cookie cutter being in order

896
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: to get it. Be yourself one hundred percent.

897
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 3: I love that. Thank you so much for your time today.

898
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 3: I've loved hearing your story and I think I think

899
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 3: it's such a powerful connection the role that sport can

900
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 3: play in shifting attitudes. It's a huge part of what

901
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 3: we do, and I love the way you've been able

902
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 3: to use storytelling through this documentary and the work that

903
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 3: you do day in day out with Rugby League. It's amazing.

904
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:19,720
Speaker 3: So thank you so much, Ben, thank.

905
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: You so much. I've been a long admirer of what

906
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,399
Speaker 1: you do. Say. It's very very nice to be.

907
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 4: On the Female Athlete Project.

908
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:27,919
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm a fan girl a little bit

909
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: because you guys have such incredible influence and you know

910
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 1: everything that I'm speaking about today, I know in terms

911
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 1: of probably a lot of Tapps audience, but especially yourself.

912
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: I'm preaching to the choir here, this is what we're

913
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: trying to do, isn't it. We're just trying to make

914
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 1: good things happen.

915
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, thank you so much, and I make sure

916
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,919
Speaker 3: producers puts the link to watch it on SBS on demand.

917
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: Is that right? Yes it is.

918
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 4: Watch it at your own convenience.

919
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: Yes, I love it.

920
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 3: How good? Thanks so much for listening. If you got

921
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 3: something out of this episode, I would absolutely love it.

922
00:48:58,040 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 3: If you could send it on to one person who

923
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 3: you think might enjoy it. Otherwise, subscribe, give us a review,

924
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 3: and make sure you follow us on Instagram at the

925
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 3: Female Athlete Project to stay up to date with podcast episodes,

926
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 3: merch drops, and of course, news and stories about epic

927
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 3: female athletes