1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: When was the last time you received negative feedback on 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: your performance? Was it last week? Have you last month? 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: Or maybe last year? And could you imagine if everyone 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: across the country could access your performance reviews and more 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: specifically the negative things that your boss and your team 6 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: had to say about you. Well, that's pretty much the 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: life of comedian and ABC radio host Sammy J. He 8 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: gets feedback very publicly, not only in the form of ratings, 9 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: but also in the form of unsolicited comments on social 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: media and of course, in reviews of his shows. So 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: how does Sammy J deal with such public feedback? Does 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: he take it on board or ignore it? And what 13 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: strategies has he learned to basically not let it destroy 14 00:00:54,040 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: his confidence. My name is doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an 15 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium. 16 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: And this is how I work a show about how 17 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: to help you do your best work. On today is 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: my Favorite Tip episode, we go back to an interview 19 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: from the past and I pick out my favorite tip 20 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: from the interview. In today's show, I speak with Sammy 21 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: Jay about feedback and this extract starts with me asking 22 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: Sammy about how feedback works at the ABC where he 23 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 1: hosts Breakfast every day on seven seven four, there. 24 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 2: Was a very structured process for that. At ABC. There's 25 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 2: internal air checks they call them, where you all go 26 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: together and listen back, and then as a team you 27 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: work on the show and you're always coming up with 28 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: new segments or discussing guests and things. So that's there, 29 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: and I sort of trust that process pretty well because 30 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: I still feel like I'm very much learning. I'm still 31 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: very much the new kids. So there's never been a 32 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 2: note given to me where I haven't agreed with it, 33 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 2: Like if someone says, how you're talking too fast, or hey, 34 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 2: that was a really bad question you could have asked 35 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 2: like this, I'm always like it, so I really find 36 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 2: that actually helpful. There's a more blunt feedback tool which 37 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 2: is called the ratings, and in fact, you know, they 38 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: actually just came out like an hour ago. So I 39 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 2: think that this a whole now, Like in the paper 40 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 2: later today, I will be mentioned with regards to my 41 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: ratings and things. But having been through the TV and 42 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 2: live work, you get fairly used to the up and 43 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 2: down all that stuff as well, so not as affected 44 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 2: by that as I think some people thought. I would be. 45 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 3: I think that's really interesting about the work that you 46 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 3: do that the feedback is so public, certainly with something 47 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 3: as objective, if you like, as ratings, through to social 48 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 3: media and the feedback loop there through all the work 49 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 3: that you've been doing in your career, how have you 50 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 3: learned not to let it just completely destroy you and 51 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 3: self confidence? What are the strategies that you've learned over 52 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 3: the years. 53 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: Gee, I think well, I mean I think back to 54 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 2: the first like bad comedy review I get, I got 55 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: like years ago, and it does destroy you like anyone, 56 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 2: likely in the normal workplace, that's the equivalent of a 57 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 2: workplace review or something. But having your name published in 58 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 2: the newspapers someone giving you two stars and saying, oh 59 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 2: it's just rubbish, it can cripple you. But I think 60 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: in the comedy and in the arts or in general, 61 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: they're the bits that make you, and they're the bitswear 62 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 2: And if you headed to any open mic comedy night 63 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,239 Speaker 2: or musicians night, you're going to find let's say, ten 64 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 2: performers in their early twenties, eight or nine of whom 65 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: will probably not continue that as a job. And I 66 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 2: think part of that will because of the feedback is 67 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 2: the audience weren't kind to them more because they had 68 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 2: a bad review and it was a bit of fun. 69 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 2: But then they move on and get stable jobs, which 70 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: I have so much respect for because I don't think 71 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: we're built as humans to I don't really like the 72 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 2: idea that we have to become hard in ourselves or 73 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 2: become completely a Beblievi's to what people think in order 74 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 2: to succeed, because I think that's just not a natural statement. 75 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: We all want to be liked, and we all want 76 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 2: to be complimented rather than torn down. However, creatively, it 77 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 2: took me a long time. I think success didn't come 78 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: to me like really quickly. It's been a very those 79 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 2: sort of progress for me career wise, and along the 80 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 2: way for me was always about finding my voice for 81 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 2: what I found funny, being true to that, and that 82 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 2: really helps so much with reviews and things. Because when 83 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: I got a good review for like my live shows, 84 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 2: and it was a show I really worked hard on it, 85 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 2: and I was proud of I was really it was 86 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 2: really satisfying. But I've had a bad review again, either 87 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: I agree with some of the points, I was like, 88 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 2: you know, that's fair enough, or it was someone who 89 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: just didn't like me, and that's I really got to 90 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 2: the point where I think that's okay as well, Like 91 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: I'm not here, None of us are here to try 92 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 2: and please everyone in the world, and that's just a 93 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 2: recipe for disaster. And I think creatively, and I talk 94 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 2: about this with younger comedians if they ever want to 95 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: know a bit more about the industry or my take 96 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 2: on it, but I sort of say, well, you have 97 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,239 Speaker 2: to decide you're trying to do things that you enjoy, 98 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: or you're trying to do things just for other people. 99 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 2: And if you want to other people, you can, you know, 100 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 2: make as many dick jokes as you want or pub 101 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 2: jokes that aren't appropriate or whatever, and you can please 102 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 2: lots of people, but you probably won't be necessarily happy 103 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 2: with that. But if you're doing what you want to do, 104 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 2: then whether or not there's an audience for that is 105 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 2: to an extent out of your hands. You're just trying 106 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 2: to find the audience to show your sense of humor. 107 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: And then to the extent that it is in your hands, 108 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 2: I think that takes up ninety percent of your work 109 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 2: because very much, for me, comedy has been a business 110 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 2: and it's about really aggressively finding that audience and being 111 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: clever about how you market yourself. And I don't say 112 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 2: that with any synesis and whatsoever. I'm to say that 113 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: most artists who have made a living have had to 114 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 2: become by default, business people in order to achieve that. Wow, 115 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 2: that was a really long answer, Like I went all 116 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: over the place and sorry. 117 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 3: That's why we edit things. 118 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: But I probably won't edit that, so you make it 119 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: sound really really simple, like don't try to expect that 120 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: everyone will love you. 121 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 3: Find your kind of crowd. But I imagine that that 122 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 3: was a pretty hard lesson to learn, Like was there 123 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 3: a turning point where you perhaps knew that intellectually but 124 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 3: you then started to internalize that. 125 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: I think there was, and I think it was to 126 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 2: do with maturity. As lame as that sounds, but I 127 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 2: look back and my first gigs singing songs standing up 128 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 2: at a keyboard in pubs around Melbourne. Half that material 129 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 2: it was still proud of, in that I was doing 130 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 2: interesting songs or coming up with interesting comedy ideas that 131 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 2: were a bit original, And the other half was just 132 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 2: some shocking stuff that was variously probably racist or misogynistic 133 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: or sex. It's take your pick, like in terms of 134 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 2: just as a young image would do trying to make 135 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 2: people laugh. And I think I also really put up 136 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 2: quite a confronting facade of really trying to be an 137 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: edgy sort of smartass on stage because I saw that 138 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 2: was how other people were doing it, and that was 139 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 2: never actually me. I was much more, yeah, the sort 140 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 2: of almost shy nerd type. And I look back maybe 141 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 2: the last five years or so, when I've had more 142 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 2: success in in some ways, I think that has been 143 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: because of that human element to what I do, Like 144 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 2: I much more work on bringing my own stories, like 145 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 2: there'll be personal elements to my songs and I right now, 146 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: which I never would have used to approach because I 147 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 2: would have thought it was too small zerales and it 148 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 2: didn't have enough jokes. But I now have learned that 149 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 2: being more myself, even if myself is not as funny 150 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 2: as that most comedians at least, I think there's a 151 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 2: personal connection there which I can achieve, and I've learned 152 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 2: to embrace that far more. So that's not really a 153 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 2: lesson for everyone else. It's probably listening being more true 154 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 2: to yourself. So for me, that was being more true 155 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: to myself. 156 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: That is it for today's show. If you are enjoying 157 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: How I Work, why not recommend it to a friend. 158 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: That is one of the ways that this show has 159 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: continued to grow. So thank you for everyone that has 160 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: been giving a shout out to How I Work to 161 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: your friends or on social media. It's very appreciated. How 162 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: I Work is produced by Inventive with production support from 163 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: Dead Set Studios, and thank you to Matt Nimba who 164 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: does the audio mix for every episode and makes it 165 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: all sound awesome. See you next time.