1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcottin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Wednesday, 8 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 2: the eighteenth of January. I'm Sam and I'm Zara. We're 9 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 2: continuing to his stories out of the US about classified 10 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 2: documents found in Joe Biden's possession. 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,319 Speaker 1: More pages of classified documents are discovered at President Joe 12 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: Biden's Delaware home. Here, public and lawmakers are ramping up 13 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: for investigations as President Biden faces growing criticism for his 14 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: handling of classified materials. 15 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 2: The White House disclosing Saturday, five additional pages were found 16 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 2: in a review of the Wilmington residents, bringing the tally 17 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 2: to six pages found this week. Now, with Biden having 18 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 2: criticized Trump after classified documents were discovered at his Mar 19 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 2: A Lago residence and I. 20 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 3: Thought how that could possibly happen. Anyone could be that irresponsible. 21 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 2: The question is how different are these two cases and 22 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 2: what will the consequences be for Biden. We're going to 23 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 2: let you know in the deep dive. But first, Zara, 24 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:25,479 Speaker 2: what's making headlines this morning. 25 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 4: The family of the Sydney man who was killed in 26 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 4: a plane crash in Nepal has paid him tribute, saying 27 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 4: he put so much into his short life that most 28 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 4: of us couldn't fit into our lifetime. Officials have confirmed 29 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 4: that there were no survivors from the plane crash. 30 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 2: It was a damn hot day here at the Australian 31 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: Open yesterday. Extreme heat has caused some games to be 32 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: canceled at the Aussie Open, with on court temperatures reaching 33 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: the high thirties of the five heat classifications at the 34 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: tournament level five bands games law practice on all outdoor courts. 35 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: Tennis Australia boss Craig Tiley did reject calls to move 36 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 2: the event till later in the year to make it safer. 37 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 4: Federal Liberal Senator Jim Mullen died aged seventy two yesterday 38 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 4: following a battle with cancer. Opposition leader Peter Dudden said 39 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 4: Australia had lost a great man who was a champion 40 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 4: for our country. Prime Minister Anthony Alberizi and his deputy 41 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 4: Richard Miles said they were saddened to hear about Mullan's death. 42 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,399 Speaker 2: And today's good news also sticks in sport. Over five 43 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 2: hundred thousand tickets have already been sold for this year's 44 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 2: Women's World Cup. People are really getting excited now. The 45 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 2: competition will be held in Australia and New Zealand in August, 46 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: with tickets being salt to fans in over one hundred 47 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 2: and twenty countries. More classified official documents have been retrieved 48 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 2: from Joe Biden's private home. Now. We first heard revelations 49 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: that classified documents had been found in Biden's former office 50 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 2: last November, Bazarre. Before we go any further, classified means 51 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 2: the document's a top secret and might contain sensitive information. 52 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: The classified documents that we're talking about are from Biden's 53 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 2: time as Vice President, where he would have had access 54 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: to very significant information. So I guess the concern is 55 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 2: that those top secret documents could contain information that poses 56 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 2: a risk to America's national security. 57 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 4: All Right, I feel like we've had lots of different 58 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 4: stories that have updated us on this Biden documents story 59 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 4: over the last couple of weeks and over the holidays. 60 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 4: Can you just break down what's happened and what we 61 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 4: know about these documents. 62 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 2: Well, it all started in last November when the first 63 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: batch of documents were found at the Penn Biden Center 64 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 2: in Washington, and that's where Joe Biden had an old office. 65 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: On the second of November, Biden's personal attorneys were packing 66 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 2: files stored in a locked closet when they discovered those 67 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: classified documents. That same day, the White House Council's Office 68 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: informed the National Archives, and that's where important government doctors 69 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: documents are held, and according to the White House, the 70 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: Archives took possession of the material the following morning. It 71 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: all moved very quickly. So that's the third of November. 72 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: Fast forward to this side of twenty twenty three, and 73 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: earlier this month, the Department of Justice appointed a special 74 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 2: council to investigate the fact that some classified documents had 75 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 2: ended up in Joe Biden's private office. It's only been 76 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 2: a few weeks since then, but since the appointment of 77 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: that special council, we've heard that more classified documents have 78 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 2: been found totally separate ones. These ones in the president's 79 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:35,799 Speaker 2: personal residences, including in the president's garage. Biden was asked 80 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: about these documents in a press conference last week. 81 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 5: Can you explain how classified documents ended up in one 82 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 5: of your offices and should the public have been notified sooner? 83 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 5: People know I take classified documents class information seriously. When 84 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 5: my lawyers were clearing out my office at the University 85 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 5: of Pennsylvania, they found some documents in the box in 86 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 5: a lock cabinet or at least the closet, and as 87 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 5: soon as they did, they realized there were several classified 88 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,799 Speaker 5: documents in that box, and they did what they should 89 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 5: have done. They immediately call the Archives. Immediately call the archives, 90 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 5: turned them over to the Archives, and were cooperating fully, 91 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 5: cooperating fully with the review and which I hope will 92 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 5: be finished soon and there'll be more detail at that time. 93 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 4: Can you just take me through then, what the actual 94 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 4: legal implications are here. 95 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 2: Well, it's actually the removal of classified documents from the 96 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 2: National Archives. That's an offense under the Espionage Act. It's 97 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 2: also an offense to conceal or destroy classified documents. And 98 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 2: these laws apply to presidents and vice presidents. But You've 99 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 2: got to remember, for a penalty to apply, the Department 100 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: of Justice must decide to bring forward a prosecution. 101 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 4: So since the last midterm elections, the Republicans now have 102 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 4: the majority in the House, which means that they have 103 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 4: a lot more power than they did pre mid terms. 104 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 4: How they responded to this latest news about Joe Biden 105 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 4: and the classified documents. 106 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 2: Your rights are It's a very different looking house than 107 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: this time last year, for example, and so the Republicans 108 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 2: have really focused on the parallels between this current case 109 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 2: and the case on foot against Donald Trump. The dj 110 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 2: secured a warrants to raid Trump's residents and says it 111 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 2: found hundreds of classified documents. So when it was found 112 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 2: that Biden was also in possession of classified material, the 113 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 2: Republicans response centered on this precedent set by how the 114 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 2: Trump case is being dealt with. Have a listened to 115 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 2: Republican Congressman James Comer speaking about it on CBS. 116 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 6: The Democrats made such a big deal out of Trump's 117 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,679 Speaker 6: possession of classified documents that they issued a special council. 118 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 6: So now that we learned that Biden's done the same 119 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 6: thing and in at least two different location, then you're 120 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 6: going to see the same type of outrage and response 121 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 6: from Republicans. 122 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: Biden himself had been credit call of Trump's handling of 123 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 2: classified documents. Have A listened to Biden on sixty minutes 124 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 2: last year and. 125 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 3: I thought, how that could possibly happen? Anyone could be 126 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 3: that irresponsible? What data was in there that may compromise 127 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 3: sources and methods. By that, I mean names of people 128 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 3: who helped or etc. And it's just totally irresponsible. 129 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 4: The Republicans have underscored the different ways that authorities have 130 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 4: dealt with these two cases of the now president and 131 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 4: the former president. How did they respond to the Trump case? 132 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 2: Well, Trump is being investigated by the DOJ forour taking 133 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 2: and seeking to conceal those classified documents that we mentioned 134 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: which were found in his Mar A Lago home down 135 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 2: in Florida. Some of those were handed over to the FBI, 136 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 2: but others were only obtained after the FBI secured that 137 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 2: search warrant. Trump claims that he did classify the documents, 138 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 2: which presidents do have the power to do, but there 139 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 2: is no clear evidence for that claim. 140 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 4: Okay, So the Republicans of very clearly trying to position 141 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 4: these two cases as similar. Are they similar? 142 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 2: Well, I guess both Trump and Biden are in the wrong. 143 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: During a presidential transition period, records are meant to be 144 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: turned over to the US National Archives. I got to 145 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,559 Speaker 2: say there are big differences in the two cases, though. 146 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: In Trump's case, the National Archives tried for more than 147 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: a year to retrieve all the records he kept after 148 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 2: he left office, and it was only in January last 149 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 2: year when Trump returned fifteen boxes of documents that the 150 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 2: Archives discovered they contained classified material. The DOJ issued a 151 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 2: subpoena last mate try and get back more classified material, 152 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 2: and when investigators visited Trump's home, his attorneys handed over 153 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 2: more documents, but claims there were no more on the premises. 154 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 2: Of course, then when a search warrant was issued by 155 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 2: the FBI and an additional thirteen thousand documents, about one 156 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 2: hundred of which were marked as classified, were recovered. To 157 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 2: compare that to the current Biden situation, we have some 158 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 2: reports that about twenty classified documents have been found in 159 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 2: Biden's possession so far, and the President's attorney informs the 160 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 2: Archives and Justice Department about the documents they found to 161 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 2: be in Biden's possession and turn them over to authorities. 162 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 4: Okay, so from here, what happens to President Biden. 163 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 2: Well, you've got to remember we're early in this investigation, 164 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 2: so the answer to that really depends on what the 165 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 2: investigators find. Typically, prosecutors won't press charges if documents are 166 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 2: kept by accident, but it is different when there's an 167 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 2: obstruction of justice, and that's where Trump is in more 168 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 2: potential legal danger than Biden. The White House says Biden 169 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 2: is cooperating with the DOJ and it is not suggested 170 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: Biden sought to conceal any documents. 171 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 4: We'll be back right after this. When I first started 172 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 4: reading about this story, I must say my instinctive response 173 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 4: was to just be like, oh, you know what, we 174 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 4: all forget things. I'm sure that these documents just happened 175 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 4: to end up there. But then I spoke to Tom, 176 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 4: our wonderful political journalist who sent me straight and so 177 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 4: I wanted to have him on to tell you guys 178 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 4: exactly what he told me. 179 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 7: Yes, that's right, Zarah. Well, the context for that is 180 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 7: that I used to have a security clearance when I 181 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 7: was a public servant for the Australian government, and they 182 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 7: really put the fear of God into me about that 183 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 7: security clearance and about how careful that I had to be. 184 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 7: I guess that's the context that I bring to this story. 185 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 7: I know that maybe makes it sound like I was 186 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 7: a spy or something. Just to be clear, these were very, 187 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 7: very boring documents. I was working on tax policy and 188 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 7: health policy, hardly state secrets. But I had to go 189 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 7: through this process, and I reckon it was probably day one, 190 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 7: day two that we got the talk from a big, 191 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 7: scary army guy and a smaller but maybe scarier computer 192 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 7: guy who told us that he could see everything on 193 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 7: our computer, that they would know if we email documents home, 194 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 7: they would know if we tried to take anything off 195 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 7: on a USB or leave the bill with anything. They 196 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 7: were watching us on cameras, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, 197 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 7: And the general message was you do not take classified 198 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 7: documents out of the building. And again I guess, I 199 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 7: mean that for me was being just about the least 200 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 7: important person in the Australian public service, and I still 201 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 7: had that culture drummed into me of how important sensitive 202 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 7: documents are. 203 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 4: Well, I guess that Joe Biden is a tiny bit 204 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 4: more than a junior public servant who's been there for 205 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 4: a year or two, so an interesting perspective to have. 206 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 7: Thanks Tom, Thanks Sarah. 207 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 2: I could tell you more, but i'd. 208 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 7: Have to kill you. 209 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 4: Thank you for joining us on the Daily Odds. If 210 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 4: you learned something from today's episode, don't forget to hit 211 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 4: subscribe so that there's a TDA episode waiting for you 212 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 4: every weekday morning. We'll be back again tomorrow, but until then, 213 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 4: have a fabulous day.