WEBVTT - Wild Claims 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:16.200 This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother, teacher 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.880 friend missing for twenty five years. 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:25.040 You know, no sign that she was going to vanish. 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:25.480 That's for sure. 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:30.200 The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance, I'm not. 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.640 Sure if it was intentional or if there's something more 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.440 foul afoot. If you could imagine a teacher coming straight 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.000 from say little house on the prairie to the eighties, 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:40.080 that was Marian Barter. 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:45.800 What I say, whether you find Marian Barter dead or alive, 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:50.559 I honestly believe somebody has that key piece of information. 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:54.760 And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum. 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:59.440 Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave. 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.880 I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:16.280 that somebody knows something. The Lady Vanishes, Episode forty three. 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:19.240 I'm Alison Sandy. 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:21.160 And I'm Brian Seymour. 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:26.000 Last month, out of the Blue, we received an email 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.800 from a woman in Belgium who just found out about 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:35.840 our podcast. Her name is Alexandra Piraboom. She'd also read 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.800 some of the news articles about the bizarre disappearance of 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:45.520 Marion Bart and was overwhelmed by what she discovered. You see, 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.240 it all sounded so familiar. 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:55.160 Because back in two thousand and six, Alexandra Piraboom's mother 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:58.600 in law had been wooed and promised the world by 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:03.320 a mysterious man, a man who traded in coins and 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:06.440 traveled a lot, a man that the family didn't know 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:11.720 much about. After a whirlwind romance, Misspiraboom's mother in law 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:15.280 announced that she was going to get married, sell her 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:21.400 house and her car, and start a new life in Australia. 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.760 Oh and the name of this mysterious man, well, no 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:33.680 doubt it will set off some alarm bells. Frederic Deheevari, Yes, 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.840 one of the many monikers used by the name we 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:41.800 currently know as Rick Blum. Here's the email we received 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.120 from Alexandra Piraboom in October. 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.040 Dear Madam, dear sir. Last week have heard for the 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.360 first time about Marian Barter as I was making a 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:56.160 search on Internet about Frederic d' dovari. My mother in 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.680 law was a victim of Frederic Duvari in two thousand 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:02.000 and six. At that time she contacted the police at 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.880 teverin Belgium. But since that time we never heard anything 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:10.480 about him, except one time from the police of Tournay, Belgium, 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:14.400 because he had made a new victim yesterday. I sent 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:17.799 a testimony of what happened to the Belgian Federal Police. 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:22.840 Please contact directly the Belgian police for more details. I 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:26.160 have also tried to send my testimony in French via 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:30.440 this website New South Wales dot crimestoppers dot com dot au, 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.040 but I'm not sure that they received it. I'm sorry 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:36.440 my English level is not good enough to explain the 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.640 details clearly, but feel free to contact me if you 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:43.640 have any questions. Best regards, Alexandra Peerbum. 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:49.320 Miss Piraboom has spoken with Tom and Yannik, our colleagues 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:53.040 at the Luxembourg Word newspaper, and we have interviewed miss 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:56.720 Piraboom with the help of one of our team, Estelle Sanchez, 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:01.280 in French. Miss Piraboom does not speaking English. We are 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.920 passing that on to authorities and lawyers along with the 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:09.040 statement she provided to police in Belgium. It is written 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.360 in French, which we have translated. At the top. 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:16.120 It says concern Frederic Dedovarin. 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:19.760 Testimony concerning Frederic de Hedevari and in brackets. 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:24.560 Elis rig Blum alias. 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:25.479 Rick Blum and other pseudonyms. 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.039 Then disparision de Marienbachter. 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:32.640 Disappearance of Marion Barter, brackets articles read in the media. 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:35.960 Here is what miss Pireboom had to say. 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:44.880 Monday, October tenth. Just then I ad a federal police 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.880 officer on the phone that I've contacted via the following 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:55.000 phone number eight. I briefly explain the reason of my 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:59.080 call and I put in writing more details below. Last 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:03.080 week I researched the name Frederic de Adavari, whom my 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.160 mother in law was a victim of in two thousand 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:09.160 and six. By accident, I stumbled upon an article in 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:13.440 a Lexembourg journal published on July tenth, twenty twenty two, 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:18.080 about the disappearance of Mayan Bart, whose story I was 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:22.080 completely unaware of. I'm terribly outraged when reading the story 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.800 because I realized that my mother in law had a 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.520 similar experience in two thousand and six with the same swindler. 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:34.479 The modus operandi that Frederic de Odavari, Alis rig Blam 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.719 and other pseudonyms used to defraud my mother in law 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:42.240 was identical to the one used for Mayan BARTA meeting 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:46.400 there an ad the selling of the house, cash withdrawal 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:51.320 departure for Australia without saying goodbye to her kids. Fortunately, 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.720 the story didn't go as far. My mother in law 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.920 luckily is still alive. The swindler disappeared just before the 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:03.880 scheduled departure to Australia. My mother in law, Gislaine de boisd'onlois, 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:08.000 lodged a complaint to the Teverrian police in September two 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.960 thousand and six, a few years after she was contacted 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:16.280 by the Tourney police regarding another victim of Frederic d'erdavari 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:19.719 that barely got away and to whom the exact same 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:26.960 thing happened. I would like to describe to you the 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:31.240 memory I have of Frederick d'rdavari, since this individual looked 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.000 dangerous to me right from the first time that I 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:37.520 saw him. I had the occasion to meet Frederic on 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:41.200 August nine, two thousand and six. The memory of that 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:45.400 nine makes my blood run cold. A few days before, 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.600 my mother in law announced her of three children who 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.440 were living in Belgium, that she wished to gather the 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:56.080 whole family to announce a very important news. We didn't 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:59.600 know what it was all about. Her son, who was 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:03.000 living in friends couldn't make the trip for that reason, 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.320 she organized a trip to France, where we were all 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:09.600 invited as well. On the scheduled day, I went to 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:13.440 my mother in law's at Teverinn with my partner, Gabrielle 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:17.440 Dubois and ad two year old son. The rest of 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.800 the family was there as well. When I entered the house, 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.720 I saw a man that I didn't know and greeted 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.880 him in a hurry, thinking that he was a neighbor 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:31.520 that came unexpectedly since we didn't get introduced. When the 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:34.720 whole family arrived, my mother in law poured us champagne 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:38.760 flutes and announced, here is Frederick. We love each other, 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.000 we are getting married, and we are going to live 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:45.600 in Australia. We were all shocked to hear such a 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.960 brutal news. I remember that we could feel the emotion 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.600 for my mother in law, while Frederick remained as called 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.120 as house as if he wasn't involved in this news. 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:57.360 Some family members were trying to lighten the mood by 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.040 asking a few questions to the men of this festive meal. 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:04.160 Frederick had prepared a spaghetti bowl in his dish with 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:08.000 starr andese. We sat down to eat in front of everyone, 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:12.040 He told different notable anecdotes of his life. He explained 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.320 that he was first to gendarme in Belgium, then, following 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:19.320 an accident, he left for Australia. His accident left its 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:21.840 mark because he walked with a limp. We all noticed it. 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:27.120 During meal time, he kept on telling ghoulish and unhealthy stories. 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:30.800 He said he took part in the Vietnamese War as 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:34.559 an Australian Army volunteer. He told us a greesome story 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:36.959 about it. He was made a war prisoner and was 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.480 put in a hole so narrow that he could only 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:42.880 stand up. Next to him in another hole was a 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:47.319 Vietnamese woman who was a prisoner like him. He gave 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.440 us sordid details regarding the agony and death of that woman. 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.280 I don't remember it. I felt very uneasy towards what 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:58.480 he was explaining. I thought he was completely inappropriate to 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:01.200 tell those kinds of details to people we are seeing 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:06.160 for the first time. During the night, he also mentioned poisons. 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.800 I remember it because that particular subject came back in 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:11.320 discussions a few weeks after. 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.840 Just hitting the pause for a moment, did anyone else's 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:20.079 ease prick up at the mention of poison. Anyway, on 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.240 with missus Piriboom's statement. 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.720 He told us he was a new missmatist professional, which 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:29.040 means he went around the world looking for different types 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:33.320 of rare and ancient currencies and this was what justifies 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.920 his numerous travels. The night came to an end and 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:39.520 we asked Frederic if we could see him before his 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:43.000 departure for Australia. He said that it's unlikely because he 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:47.760 was very busy. The next day, Augusta tenth I was 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.079 going on the holiday to France with my partner and 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.679 my son. We had to see my mother in law 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.800 again in Khakasan a few days after so she could 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.560 announce verbally the news of her departure to his son 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:02.720 who lived in the southware to friends. During this family meeting, 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:06.400 we talked more freely since Frederic d' davari was in there. 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:09.000 We learned that my mother in law was going to 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.800 sell a house and all that was inside, as well 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:17.040 as her car, prior to a departure for Australia. We 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.360 also learned that he would have advised her to leave 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.080 without telling her kids about it, but that she refused 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:22.680 this condition. 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:29.400 Thank goodness that Alexandra's mother in law refused this condition 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:33.720 and made sure her family was informed. We already see 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:37.000 that this account is entirely in keeping with Rick Bloom's 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:40.840 manner and his nature. Notice he makes a grand claim 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:46.079 for himself as a numismatist, which means coin collector, reminiscent 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.160 of other claims he's made, including that he was a 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:54.240 multi millionaire with a vast property portfolio, including a plantation 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:58.200 of cedar trees, and that his wife, Diane was an 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:02.760 heiress to a supermarket tycoon. It makes us wonder what 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:06.280 other fantastic lies he's peddled on. 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.880 With the statement, we learned that he traveled a lot 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:12.120 in between Europe and Australia. My mother in law told 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.480 us not to worry, because she could come back often. 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:17.280 I told her they would be welcome to stay in 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:20.679 our guest room when they would come. She answered that 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:25.120 it was unnecessary. Usually Frederic stayed at the Astoria Hotel 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:28.840 when he came to Prisel's. However, for the time being, 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:31.559 he had rented a room in the student accommodation of 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:34.319 ULB since he was staying in Belgium for a long 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.439 period of time. I was quite taken about by the 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:41.560 contrast between a grand hotel and an uncomfortable student room. 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.320 I found it weird. We all tried to learn how 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:47.720 she met him, but she remained vague in a answer, 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:50.840 saying she knew him for a very long time via 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:56.199 mutual acquaintances. Later on, at the time she lodged a 0:11:56.240 --> 0:12:00.199 complaint against him September two thousand and six, and that 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:02.800 she only met him a few weeks before she introduced 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:06.439 him to us via a personal meeting ad that she 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:11.160 published in a newspaper herself. When we came back from 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:14.160 our holiday at the end of August, we helped my 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.400 mother in law at your house since she was very 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.880 much decided upon putting it on sale and quickly leave 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:24.360 for Australia. My partner and myself have packed books in boxes. 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.680 We did this for several consecutive days. During that time. 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:32.280 We saw Frederick de'rdevari at least twice at my mother 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:36.679 in law's. He was quite unemotional and distant. We saw 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:40.319 him burn documents that were his in the chimney. He 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.040 asked just then to do all kinds of medical tests 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.800 before leaving. While I was sorting out some books, I 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.319 witnessed a troubling scene. My mother in law was on 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:52.920 the phone with a doctor and explained that she wanted 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:57.240 to do some medical examinations before leaving. Frederic was next 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:01.520 to her and he was listening to everything she said. Careilly. Certainly, 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.680 he said, ask for an ultra sound of the liver. 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.319 My mother in law is very healthy. Everything seemed weird 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.880 to me. She keeps stalking to the doctor, disregarding the 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:18.880 remarks of Frederic. Then he shouts insistently request an ultrasound 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.559 of the liver. My mother in law mentioned it to reductor. 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:27.640 Then Frederick der Duvari's behavior at the specific moment seemed 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.760 abnormal to me. He became aggressive for no apparent reason. 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:35.240 On another day, the second day, we saw Frederic at 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.600 my mother in law's. While we were emptying the house, 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.679 we learned that certain objects would directly be sent to 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:45.839 Australia in a still chest that he brought. My mother 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.080 in law wanted to put in some books and photos 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:52.120 that add significance to her, but he found pretenses to 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:56.120 choose what would go in the chest himself. Essentially, he 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.000 took all the high value objects that were in the house, 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.280 including a silver cutlery set. He told her in front 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:05.240 of us that it was to Pete to send books 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:07.960 all the way to Australia and that it would cost 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:11.480 her less to repurchase the books once there. He was 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.000 in a hurry to have his chest expedited as soon 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:17.240 as possible because it was his accountant who was supposed 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.920 to receive it on end, and he wasn't going to 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:23.240 be able to take the delivery if Frederic didn't send 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:27.400 the package right now. When sorting out several books, my 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:31.000 partner found a book about deadly poisons that leave no trace. 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:35.520 Remembering that Frederic talked about poisons the first time we met, 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.560 he asked him if the book was of any interest 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:42.080 to him. He sees the book quite aggressively, and we 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.160 were startled at his strong reaction. 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.720 There's that poison reference again. This is something that must 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.840 be investigated, the statement continues. 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:56.680 During this house decluttering days, my partner insisted Frederic and 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.520 his mum come have dinner at harp Place before they leave. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.920 Frederic didn't want to because he had too many things 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.760 to do, but my mother in law insisted and said 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.360 she couldn't turn her son down. Frederic ended up agreeing 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.440 and a day was secured for our get together. On 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.440 that day, my mother in law arrived at our place. 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.400 I can't remember the exact date, but it's the day 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.120 she lodged a complain to the police. At the beginning 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.720 of September, we were waiting for Frederic, who was coming 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.640 back from a trip to Amsterdam where he went to 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.760 the Miss Matt Fair. We waited for a long time. 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:33.200 My mother in law was getting more and more worried. 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.000 She tried to call him, but it didn't answer. She 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:39.040 told us that she was worried about the fact that 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.360 he had a large sum of cash money on him 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.600 and was scared that he might have been assaulted. I 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.400 accompanied her to the police station, where they told her 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:51.480 to get to the Tavurun Polly Sprincinct since that's where 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:55.280 domicile was. It was only a few days after that 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.640 she admitted having been the victim of a swindler who 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:03.040 disappeared with all of her savings. Since there were duplicate 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:05.920 keys of our house at my mother in law's, I 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.240 immediately changed the locks for fear that Frederick would break 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.400 into her house. To help my mother in law, I 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:15.080 tried to get information from the place where he stayed. 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:19.880 The student accommodation at uelb. They confirmed that he did 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:22.600 stay there, but they refused to give me more information. 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.120 I also know that the chest was sent by FedEx. 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.240 I tried to know what it was expediated, but they 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.480 refused to give me that information. My mother in law 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.760 learned that Frederick de Davari did several years jail time 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:39.520 for various cams a number of years after she was 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:43.360 contacted by the Tourney Police following the complaint of another 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:47.880 one of Frederic de Adavari's victims. Since then, we haven't 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:51.160 had any more news on his account until I read 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:55.120 these articles on the internet about Marion Bart's disappearance. 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.479 The statement is then signed. 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.920 Alexandra Pebum October the tenth. 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.320 So we'll give you a few moments to let all 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:08.560 of that information sink in. Thank you, Alexander for getting 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.600 in touch, for reporting this to the police, and for 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.240 providing such a detailed account of what happened to your 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:19.480 family back in two thousand and six. We sincerely hope 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:21.760 that your mother in law, you and the rest of 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:24.600 the family are all doing well and that you too 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:26.800 will get the answers that you deserve. 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:37.639 There is so much to unpack. We are wondering just 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:42.040 how big this case is going to get. It feels 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.840 like Marion Barter's story is just the tip of an 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:50.399 enormous iceberg. How many other women have also gone missing 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:55.359 after inexplicably upending their lives. We are so grateful to 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:58.960 Alexandra Pirreboom for getting in touch with us, and it's 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.160 further confirmation of the need for this story to keep 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:05.639 being shared because there is so much more to uncover. 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.119 A reminder, if you know anything about Marion Barter's disappearance, 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:12.800 or if you know anything about Rick Bloom or any 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:17.320 of his aliases, please contact us at the Lady Vanishes 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.760 at seven the word seven dot com dot AU. 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:28.520 Okay, let's go through what Alexandra Piroboom's statement tells us, 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:34.320 the similarities, the coincidences, and the things that really stand out. 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:40.439 We'll often refer to Rick Blum as Frederic Dehadevery because 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:43.800 that was the name he was using when Alexandra Piroboom's 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:46.400 mother in law met him in two thousand and six, 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:51.159 but the names are interchangeable. Miss Piroboom describes Frederic de 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:55.119 Headevery as a coin dealer who frequently traveled between Australia 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:58.280 and Europe. No surprise is there. Rick Blum and his 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:02.920 wife Dianda Hedeverary talk about his interesting coins. So did 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:06.600 two of the women he previously duped in Australia, Janet 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:12.600 Oldenburg and Jeannette Gaffney Bowen miss Pireboom claimed he suffered 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.280 a limp from injuries he said he'd acquired during his 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:19.520 time with the Belgian police. Again, that story aligns with 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.800 the evidence we've heard in the inquest from multiple witnesses. 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.800 In the statement, Frederick de Hedevereri is described as telling 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:30.920 sordid and incredible stories about being a prisoner during the 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:36.240 Vietnam War, which is absurd given his claim that he 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:40.800 spent most of the nineteen sixties recuperating from injuries which 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:48.240 left him a lifelong disability. Pensioner Monique Cornelius, the ex 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:51.440 wife of the real Fernand Remicel, who was the object 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:55.160 of Rick Blum's desire in Luxembourg, has also claimed Blum 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:59.680 was prone to telling improbable stories about himself, about his 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.600 involvement in a war in Asia, and that he was 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:08.200 a special agent for the British embassy. Miss Cornelius claimed 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.680 that Blum was drawing a picture of himself that wasn't true, 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.520 that did not much the truth of how he lived. 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.119 From reading miss Pireboom's statement, it seems she found the 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:23.280 same thing when she learned Frederic Deheevereri claimed he usually 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:27.240 stayed at the historic Astoria Hotel in Brussels, but actually 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:31.399 was lodging in student accommodation. If you recall, this is 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:32.760 what she said in her statement. 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:35.840 I was quite taken about by the contrast between a 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:40.480 grand hotel and an uncomfortable student room. I found it weird. 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:45.280 Interestingly, a quick Google search reveals that the Astoria Hotel 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.840 in Brussels lay vacant for ten years from two thousand 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:49.320 and six. 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:59.840 Now to the modus operandi number one finding women through 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:04.560 lonely hearts ads, Alexandra Piraboom says her mother in law 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:08.280 Gulaine Dubois de Lois, met Frederic de Hedeveri in two 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:12.640 thousand and six through a personal ad she published in Belgium. 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:18.320 The Similarities. Rick Bloom claims he reconnected with Marion Barter 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:22.359 in nineteen ninety seven through a personal ad. Bloom admits 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:25.680 publishing his own Lonely Hearts ad in the French Australian 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:29.960 newspaper The Courier Australia in nineteen ninety four, using the 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:35.680 alias Fernandremichel and Sidney Woman. Jeannette Gaffney Bowen also says 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:39.159 she met Frederic de Hedeveri via a personal ad in 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:40.879 the late nineteen nineties. 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:46.400 Two the promise of a new life in another country. 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.080 According to Miss Piraboom, her mother in law had a 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:53.760 well winged romance and suddenly decided to sell her house 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.440 and car with plans to marry Frederic de Hedeveri and 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:01.560 move to Australia. She was not to tell her children 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:07.320 of these plans, but she refused the similarities. Jeanette Gaffney 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:10.359 Bowen says Frederick de Herdiverari wanted her to sell her 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:13.520 Sydney home and claimed he would buy a property in 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:17.800 Paris for her. Janet Oldenburg says she was urged to 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.840 sell her home and sign over power of attorney to 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:23.960 her affairs. She was promised a new life in the 0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:28.480 French Riviera. Monique Cornelius says the man she knew told 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:30.880 her he wanted to take her away on a long 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:35.000 sailing trip, just the two of them. Rick Blum admits 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:37.560 having a relationship with Marian in the months before she 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:41.000 unexpectedly announced she's taking a trip to Europe for an 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:44.920 indefinite period, suddenly quitting her job and selling her house 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:48.080 and car. She does not tell her family or friends 0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:51.439 of her relationship with Blum and has secretly changed her 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:55.000 name to Florabella Remkeel. At the same time, Blum has 0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:58.720 a driver's license in the name for nand Remicel. On 0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:04.040 a passenger card, her occupation is listed as housewife from Luxembourg. 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:10.040 Number three. The Valuables go Missing. Miss Pireboum claims that 0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:13.120 her mother in law became worried about Frederick to Headeverary 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:15.920 when he didn't show up at a planned dinner event 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:18.960 because he had a large sum of cash on him. 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:22.960 She later admitted she'd been scammed of her life savings. 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.840 Miss Pireboum also became concerned when she was helping her 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:29.560 mother in law pack up her house. She said to 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:33.159 Headevary had provided a trunk to put things in to 0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:37.320 send directly to Australia, and he was dictating that only 0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:40.960 items of value, including a silver cutlery set, were to 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:44.960 be put in there. The similarities when Marion Barter packed 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:47.600 up her home. Some of her property was stored with 0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:51.639 family and friends. However, her collection of valuable antiques and 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:56.000 paintings have never been found in evidence. Rick Bloom admits 0:23:56.160 --> 0:24:00.240 he stored some of Marian's belongings for a short time. Also, 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:03.680 large sums of money were drained from Marion's bank account 0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:06.760 on a daily basis in the weeks after her passport 0:24:06.880 --> 0:24:11.520 returned to Australia in nineteen ninety seven. Jeanette Gaffney Bowen 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:14.880 says she trusted Frederick to Hedevery with her credit card 0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:18.720 to start a business, and thirty thousand dollars was taken 0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:21.960 from her account. She says he bought wine over but 0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:24.800 he didn't drink it. He made her a special meal 0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:28.560 and she felt she'd been drugged. He then took nude 0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:32.080 photos of her and threatened to show them around if 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:35.560 she didn't provide him with money. Also, she claims a 0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:39.760 gold nugget, jewelry, and silver coins went missing from her 0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:43.960 home while the headiverary was staying there. Rick Bloom denies 0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:48.800 all of these allegations. Janet Oldenburg says the man she 0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:52.720 knew as rich Richard or Rick West, advised her to 0:24:52.800 --> 0:24:56.120 make him power of attorney in her affairs, which she did. 0:24:56.720 --> 0:24:59.480 When the pair was traveling in Europe, he carried the 0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:02.720 title deeds to her home and the power of attorney 0:25:02.760 --> 0:25:05.639 documents in his luggage. He also had them when he 0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:08.840 left her in England and traveled back to Australia without her. 0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:13.560 Also before their trip, he convinced Janet Oldenburg to put 0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:17.760 her valuables into a tube, which he buried in her backyard. 0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:22.560 When she returned home independently, the tube was missing. Rick 0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:25.680 Bloom claims he never had the documents and that he 0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:28.200 returned the jewelry to Janet Oldenburg. 0:25:33.359 --> 0:25:37.919 As you can see, there are striking and undeniable similarities 0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:43.000 between the cases, demonstrating a pattern of behavior stretching over 0:25:43.200 --> 0:25:48.760 forty years. There are also some other things that really 0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:54.920 stand out. Let's start with the poison. In her statement, 0:25:55.359 --> 0:25:59.600 Miss Piriboom says Frederick Deheevari spoke about his knowledge of 0:25:59.640 --> 0:26:04.200 poisons at the family dinner when they first met. Weeks later, 0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:08.480 when shown a book about poisons that don't leave a trace, 0:26:08.960 --> 0:26:14.320 he appeared very interested and took possession of it. The 0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:19.200 incident stood out in Miss Pireboom's memory as odd. Now 0:26:19.560 --> 0:26:23.479 we've not heard about an interest in poisons previously. However, 0:26:23.920 --> 0:26:28.920 it is definitely something that should be investigated further. Has 0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:33.000 this man mentioned a knowledge of poisons to his friends, family, 0:26:33.359 --> 0:26:36.600 or the other women who have made his acquaintance. What 0:26:36.800 --> 0:26:40.440 does he know about different types of poison? Does he 0:26:40.680 --> 0:26:44.680 know what different poisons can do to humans? Does he 0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:47.920 keep any poisons on his property now or did he 0:26:48.280 --> 0:26:52.600 in the past? If so, what does he own any 0:26:52.680 --> 0:26:56.080 books and poisons? Has he done any research on his 0:26:56.200 --> 0:26:59.879 computer about poisons? Is he known to poison vermin on 0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:03.919 his property? If so, how does he dispose of the carcasses? 0:27:04.560 --> 0:27:06.680 All of these questions need to be answered. 0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:13.760 Next, why did mister Dehnivery demand that Miss Peterburn's mother 0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:16.840 in law ask about her having a liver scan? Miss 0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:20.920 Piterburm outlined in her statement a bizarre and rude interaction 0:27:21.320 --> 0:27:23.680 she overheard while her mother in law was on the 0:27:23.760 --> 0:27:26.879 phone to her doctor. These are her words again. 0:27:27.400 --> 0:27:30.680 Suddenly he said, ask for an ultra sound of the liver. 0:27:31.080 --> 0:27:34.200 My mother in law is very healthy. Everything seemed weird 0:27:34.280 --> 0:27:37.760 to me. She keeps stocking to the doctor, disregarding the 0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:43.120 remarks of Frederick. Then he shouts insistently request an ultrasound 0:27:43.520 --> 0:27:44.000 of the liver. 0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:49.320 When one is traveling overseas, it's not uncommon to seek 0:27:49.400 --> 0:27:53.000 medical advice, to get some extra scripts for medication and 0:27:53.200 --> 0:27:56.440 check that your vaccinations are up to date, etc. But 0:27:56.920 --> 0:27:59.959 it seems very strange to actively seek a liver's scan 0:28:00.400 --> 0:28:03.760 before traveling to Australia, which is a developed country with 0:28:03.800 --> 0:28:07.119 an excellent health system, especially if you're healthy and not 0:28:07.240 --> 0:28:11.760 showing any signs of liver disorder. There are some questions 0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:15.159 that need to be asked. Was mister de Hedevereri purely 0:28:15.280 --> 0:28:18.440 trying to assert his dominance by telling Miss Pereboom's mother 0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:21.600 in law what to do? Or was he trying to 0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:26.119 prove his intellectual prowess by claiming knowledge about medical procedures, 0:28:27.280 --> 0:28:30.000 Or was there a reason he wanted to know about 0:28:30.040 --> 0:28:35.480 the condition of his new love interests liver and is 0:28:35.560 --> 0:28:40.240 this somehow linked to his apparent knowledge of poisons. We 0:28:40.400 --> 0:28:43.880 can also tell you that Marion Barter, according to her 0:28:44.000 --> 0:28:48.360 medical records kept by Sally and researched by the super Sleuths, 0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:54.160 also had a liver scan before she went overseas. You 0:28:54.280 --> 0:28:58.000 might recall in episode eighteen, we revealed that on May seven, 0:28:58.240 --> 0:29:01.560 nineteen ninety seven, just over a month before she left 0:29:01.600 --> 0:29:05.360 to go overseas, Marian had two blood tests at the 0:29:05.440 --> 0:29:10.240 Queensland Medical Laboratory Pathology Centre. One was a liver function 0:29:10.440 --> 0:29:14.920 test where six or more elements were requested. Marian and 0:29:15.080 --> 0:29:18.640 Julane both had liver tests before their trips, and Rick 0:29:18.720 --> 0:29:24.920 Bloom or Frederic was allegedly interested in poisons. One poison, 0:29:25.280 --> 0:29:30.000 arsenic has no color, taste or smell and can kill 0:29:30.120 --> 0:29:33.520 within hours or days. It can only be detected in 0:29:33.760 --> 0:29:36.920 urine twenty four to forty eight hours after being ingested. 0:29:37.520 --> 0:29:40.520 It was one of Agatha Christie's favorite methods of murder. 0:29:41.400 --> 0:29:45.120 According to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, 0:29:45.840 --> 0:29:50.040 arsenic undergoes biomethylation in the liver. It is how humans 0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:55.480 process and detoxify arsenic from the body. Then approximately seventy 0:29:55.560 --> 0:29:58.040 percent is excreted through urine. 0:30:01.120 --> 0:30:05.880 Thirdly, Miss Piroboom says mister D'HIVERI burns some personal documents 0:30:06.000 --> 0:30:09.440 in the fireplace. It would be good to know what 0:30:09.720 --> 0:30:15.040 these were. Also, the statement mentions that Frederick de HEADEVERI 0:30:15.400 --> 0:30:18.840 wants the trunk containing his new partner's possessions to be 0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:23.360 shipped to Australia as soon as possible. Again, here's the 0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:26.160 direct translation of Miss Piroboom's words. 0:30:26.880 --> 0:30:29.160 He was in a hurry to have his chest expedited 0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:32.280 as soon as possible because it was his accountant who 0:30:32.400 --> 0:30:35.240 was supposed to receive it on hand, and he wasn't 0:30:35.280 --> 0:30:38.320 going to be able to take the delivery if Frederic 0:30:38.400 --> 0:30:39.880 didn't send the package right now. 0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:43.880 Who is this accountant, where does he live and what 0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:47.960 does he know about mister de Headavari's shipments? Also does 0:30:48.040 --> 0:30:50.920 FedEx still retain records regarding this delivery. 0:30:54.000 --> 0:30:57.520 Finally, something needs to be said about Miss Piroboom's recollection 0:30:57.680 --> 0:31:01.840 of Frederic de Heeadiverari's demeanor. She was only in his 0:31:02.000 --> 0:31:05.040 company on a few occasions once she found him, and 0:31:05.120 --> 0:31:09.040 I quote extremely dangerous from the first moment I met him. 0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:14.520 She remembers him as cold and distant and detached from 0:31:14.560 --> 0:31:19.280 the obvious excitement Misspirebum's mother in law displayed. Miss Pirebeum 0:31:19.360 --> 0:31:22.360 noted his belittling tone when he told her mother in 0:31:22.440 --> 0:31:24.840 law what to put in the trunk to send to Australia, 0:31:25.360 --> 0:31:28.680 admonishing her in front of everyone, saying it was stupid 0:31:28.760 --> 0:31:35.800 to send books there. Miss Piriboom also became weary when 0:31:35.920 --> 0:31:40.040 Frederick to Herdeveri's temper suddenly flared, and he shouted at 0:31:40.040 --> 0:31:41.920 her mother in law when she was on the phone 0:31:41.960 --> 0:31:45.720 to her doctor, demanding she request a scan of the liver. 0:31:47.200 --> 0:31:51.120 Miss Pirebeam said she found the behavior completely abnormal and 0:31:51.240 --> 0:31:57.120 that he became aggressive for no apparent reason. Another of 0:31:57.200 --> 0:32:01.880 Frederic Dehadiveri's former female acquaintances as also previously spoken of 0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:05.400 his temper back in episode twenty eight. This is what 0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:07.280 Jeanette Gaffney Bowen had to say. 0:32:07.680 --> 0:32:12.720 A blackmail doun threatened me. It wanted me to do 0:32:13.000 --> 0:32:16.560 what he wanted me to do, like sailing my house 0:32:16.640 --> 0:32:17.280 for the money. 0:32:17.880 --> 0:32:21.000 Miss Gatney Bowen said, mister dehada Erry threatened to put 0:32:21.080 --> 0:32:24.200 garbage all over the garden and have her childcare business 0:32:24.280 --> 0:32:28.040 closed down, so she contacted the Belgian consulate to report him, 0:32:28.440 --> 0:32:30.160 and then she called the police. 0:32:30.520 --> 0:32:32.800 What was in your mind after he took the photos? 0:32:33.160 --> 0:32:34.280 What was he seeking from you? 0:32:35.000 --> 0:32:39.080 Money? That's all he was he has been after all along. 0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:44.320 I got scared. I was becoming very scared, so I 0:32:44.400 --> 0:32:45.560 contacted the police. 0:32:45.880 --> 0:32:49.960 She sought an apprehended domestic personal violence order in December 0:32:50.080 --> 0:32:54.040 nineteen ninety eight, amid suggestions he threatened to get Miss 0:32:54.160 --> 0:32:59.120 Gatney Bowen's family in Australia and overseas. After that, she 0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:02.360 said she didn't hear from mister de Headaveri again. However, 0:33:02.600 --> 0:33:05.200 the court was told that around this time there was 0:33:05.240 --> 0:33:08.800 an anonymous complaint to the Department of Community Services about 0:33:08.880 --> 0:33:13.040 Miss Gaffney Bowen's home based childcare service. It mentioned certain 0:33:13.120 --> 0:33:15.640 aspects of our house that only a few people knew, 0:33:16.040 --> 0:33:18.200 and mister D'hadaveri was one of them. 0:33:18.680 --> 0:33:22.080 We're not quite sure how or if this statement will 0:33:22.080 --> 0:33:25.160 be incorporated into the evidence that's been gathered for the 0:33:25.240 --> 0:33:28.840 inquest into the disappearance of Marion Barter. Given that there 0:33:28.880 --> 0:33:31.560 are only a few weeks until a decision is due 0:33:31.600 --> 0:33:36.320 to be handed down, I contacted Rick Bloom by phone 0:33:36.520 --> 0:33:39.520 to put these allegations to him and to give him 0:33:39.560 --> 0:33:40.320 the right of reply. 0:33:40.760 --> 0:33:42.560 Really, Hello, Ricketts. 0:33:42.560 --> 0:33:46.440 Brian Seymour at The Lady Vanish's podcast, I'm recording this conversation. 0:33:47.080 --> 0:33:49.760 I'm calling to ask about Alexandra Pirebum and her mother 0:33:49.840 --> 0:33:52.880 in law, Julane. They claim you stole money and valuables 0:33:52.920 --> 0:33:55.320 from them in two thousand and six, and I'm offering 0:33:55.360 --> 0:33:56.720 you the chance to respond. 0:33:58.720 --> 0:33:59.240 Not to worry. 0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:02.880 When did you meet and how did you meet Julane? 0:34:05.600 --> 0:34:07.800 Just please don't worry about thanks. 0:34:07.960 --> 0:34:09.479 No, I have to worry about it because they claim 0:34:09.480 --> 0:34:12.640 you've still in money and valuables and you're regreative and threatening. 0:34:13.440 --> 0:34:20.560 Oh Jesus, yes, yes, How much did you take from them? Rick? 0:34:21.000 --> 0:34:26.040 And I never took anything. Just did you ask her 0:34:26.120 --> 0:34:28.719 to start a new life with you in Australia? And 0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:31.359 what else? What else? 0:34:31.719 --> 0:34:33.280 Just leave me alone? 0:34:33.680 --> 0:34:35.359 No, No, I can't do that because more and more 0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:39.719 women are coming forward. How many women have you? Rick? Rick? 0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:42.319 All right? Rick has hung up? All right. 0:34:44.480 --> 0:34:47.120 Now we return to the final submissions delivered to the 0:34:47.200 --> 0:34:51.279 State Coroner in late October. Last episode, we focused on 0:34:51.360 --> 0:34:54.719 the new evidence of former bank manager Joan Hazlitt and 0:34:54.840 --> 0:34:58.840 the submission of counsel assisting the coroner, Adam Casselton. We 0:34:59.040 --> 0:35:02.040 have more now from to custodon on the finding Sally 0:35:02.120 --> 0:35:04.840 Layden and her family are seeking from the court in 0:35:04.960 --> 0:35:06.719 regards to the police investigation. 0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:10.560 The family seek eleven specific findings in regard to the 0:35:10.640 --> 0:35:15.720 police investigation into Marian's disappearance. One a finding that Graham 0:35:15.800 --> 0:35:19.000 Child should not have classified Sally's report as an occurrence 0:35:19.120 --> 0:35:23.600 only event. We support that finding, your honor. Two a 0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:26.840 finding that Graham Chiles was unaware of the definition of 0:35:26.880 --> 0:35:30.239 a missing person in the Commissioner's Instruction Number thirty nine. 0:35:30.719 --> 0:35:34.759 We support that contention, Your honor. Three A finding that 0:35:34.840 --> 0:35:38.360 it was unsatisfactory and inappropriate that Graham Chiles did not 0:35:38.520 --> 0:35:41.759 reclassify the event from an occurrence only to an act 0:35:41.800 --> 0:35:46.080 of investigation. We support that, your honor. Four A finding 0:35:46.160 --> 0:35:49.600 that Senior Constable Michael Pearce should not have verified Graham 0:35:49.680 --> 0:35:53.719 Child's classification of the event as an occurrence only, Your honor, 0:35:53.840 --> 0:35:57.000 We did not support that submission, primarily for this reason, 0:35:57.080 --> 0:35:59.719 Your honor. Senior Constable Peers was not called as a 0:35:59.719 --> 0:36:03.080 whitess and those matters were not put to him. Five 0:36:03.360 --> 0:36:05.600 A finding that due to these failures in the first 0:36:05.680 --> 0:36:10.080 reporting of Marian's disappearance, Marian's case was not investigated or 0:36:10.160 --> 0:36:12.840 listed as a missing person until two thousand and seven, 0:36:13.280 --> 0:36:16.520 and the failure to open any investigation into Marian's disappearance 0:36:16.560 --> 0:36:19.680 in nineteen ninety seven has led to the unavailability of 0:36:19.760 --> 0:36:24.239 crucial evidence surrounding the circumstances of Marian's disappearance, Your Honor, 0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:28.880 That proposed finding is supported. Six A finding that Marian 0:36:29.000 --> 0:36:31.239 was listed as a missing person for the first time 0:36:31.600 --> 0:36:34.200 on the sixth of July two thousand and seven by 0:36:34.320 --> 0:36:37.880 Senior Constable Joanne Williams as a result of being contacted 0:36:37.920 --> 0:36:41.800 by Rebecca Cotts of the Australian Federal Police. We support 0:36:41.880 --> 0:36:45.760 that contention, Your honor. Seven A finding that Detective Senior 0:36:45.800 --> 0:36:49.120 Constable Shean's decision to recommend that Marian be removed from 0:36:49.160 --> 0:36:52.720 the missing person's register was incorrect and should not have occurred. 0:36:53.080 --> 0:36:57.200 We support that proposed finding. Eight A finding that Detective 0:36:57.239 --> 0:37:01.080 Senior Constable Shean did not identify the healthcare provided when 0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:04.000 Marian's Medicare card had been used on the thirteenth of 0:37:04.040 --> 0:37:07.080 August nineteen ninety seven in a timely manner. We do 0:37:07.239 --> 0:37:09.920 not support that proposed finding because there is simply not 0:37:10.120 --> 0:37:13.640 enough evidence before Your Honor. Nine A finding that Detective 0:37:13.680 --> 0:37:17.280 Senior Constable Shan did not sufficiently investigate the name remarkable 0:37:17.640 --> 0:37:21.319 after discovering that in twenty eleven Marian had changed her name, 0:37:21.800 --> 0:37:24.760 Your Honor, we do not support that proposed finding again 0:37:24.920 --> 0:37:28.480 because there is simply not enough evidence. Ten A finding 0:37:28.520 --> 0:37:30.880 that the only reason why the New South Wales police 0:37:30.920 --> 0:37:34.680 investigation was reopened in twenty nineteen was because of media 0:37:34.760 --> 0:37:39.520 interests in the case, we do not support that proposed finding. Eleven, 0:37:39.840 --> 0:37:43.520 A finding the Detective Senior Constable Shean did not sufficiently 0:37:43.600 --> 0:37:47.239 investigate the advertisement in the Curia Australian in which he 0:37:47.360 --> 0:37:50.960 became aware in May twenty nineteen, Your Honor, we do 0:37:51.160 --> 0:37:54.719 not support that proposed finding again because there is not 0:37:54.920 --> 0:37:57.719 enough evidence in our submission before Your Honor to find 0:37:57.760 --> 0:38:00.480 there would have been any material difference in the invent instigation, 0:38:00.880 --> 0:38:03.840 and also because this issue was not addressed with Detector 0:38:03.920 --> 0:38:05.160 Shan in his evidence. 0:38:09.400 --> 0:38:12.319 So of the eleventh findings that Sally Leyden and her 0:38:12.400 --> 0:38:16.160 family is seeking based on the evidence, the Council assisting 0:38:16.280 --> 0:38:17.880 the Coroner supports six. 0:38:21.440 --> 0:38:24.560 It is baffling that mister Coulston does not think the media, 0:38:24.840 --> 0:38:28.840 namely this podcast, led to the police investigation into Marion's 0:38:28.880 --> 0:38:34.080 disappearance being reopened. Perhaps he's forgotten that Marian wasn't even 0:38:34.160 --> 0:38:37.360 listed as missing when we started, and that Detective she 0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:40.680 And told us straight out Marian chose to leave on 0:38:40.800 --> 0:38:44.720 her own. It is a simple fact that Sally Laden 0:38:45.000 --> 0:38:48.880 and Alison Sandy are the ones responsible for all of 0:38:48.960 --> 0:38:53.400 this happening, including the police investigation and the coronial in quest. 0:38:54.719 --> 0:38:58.759 In his submissions, Sally Layden's lawyer Bradley Smith argued the 0:38:58.880 --> 0:39:01.840 need for the coroner to recommend that Rick Bloom be 0:39:02.040 --> 0:39:06.440 charged with perjury. As you can probably recall, mister Bloom's 0:39:06.480 --> 0:39:11.720 evidence was full of holes, contradictions, exaggerations and lies. 0:39:14.280 --> 0:39:16.879 Section fifty nine of the Act expressly gives the court 0:39:16.960 --> 0:39:19.840 power to require persons to give evidence on oath and 0:39:20.080 --> 0:39:22.960 to receive evidence on oath. And we say that it 0:39:23.040 --> 0:39:26.080 must be implied from that express power that the Court 0:39:26.160 --> 0:39:29.200 has such power to take steps to remedy or ensure 0:39:29.239 --> 0:39:32.480 there are any consequences for any abuse of that power, 0:39:32.960 --> 0:39:35.760 in the sense of witnesses being required to give evidence 0:39:35.800 --> 0:39:39.160 on oath, who then give false evidence. And we say 0:39:39.320 --> 0:39:42.440 otherwise a mockery could be made of the Court's power. 0:39:42.280 --> 0:39:44.600 And therefore mister Smith seeks. 0:39:44.520 --> 0:39:47.080 Consequences for false evidence being given. 0:39:47.440 --> 0:39:49.839 He honed in on the fact that mister Bloom used 0:39:49.960 --> 0:39:54.239 passports and driver's licenses in names that were not his 0:39:54.480 --> 0:39:55.040 legal name. 0:39:55.480 --> 0:39:59.320 Not only was Rick Blum, we say, and counsel assisting 0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:03.800 accepted masquerading under a fake name using a Queensland driver's 0:40:03.880 --> 0:40:08.239 license fraudulently obtained, but we say additionally he was masquerading 0:40:08.360 --> 0:40:11.800 under a false passport. And if it is sufficiently relevant 0:40:11.840 --> 0:40:14.640 your honor to make a finding about the driver's license, 0:40:14.880 --> 0:40:17.480 we say, the passport is in a similar cap and 0:40:17.600 --> 0:40:19.680 we'll invite your honor to make that finding. 0:40:20.000 --> 0:40:24.040 Counsel assisting Tracy Stevens later clarified that it wasn't a 0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:27.480 false passport, but a passport that was not in mister 0:40:27.520 --> 0:40:28.640 Bloom's legal name. 0:40:29.000 --> 0:40:31.600 The facts are clear he did travel on a passport 0:40:31.640 --> 0:40:33.960 which was not in his legal name at the time, 0:40:34.360 --> 0:40:36.960 and he had also done so on other occasions not 0:40:37.120 --> 0:40:40.080 related to those as when he traveled at the same 0:40:40.239 --> 0:40:41.680 time as Marion Barter. 0:40:42.080 --> 0:40:45.880 Mister Smith indicated that mister Bloom was instrumental in Marian's 0:40:45.920 --> 0:40:49.279 decision to quit her job and sell her house. 0:40:49.440 --> 0:40:52.960 The obvious and compelling inference being that mister Blum, representing 0:40:53.040 --> 0:40:57.239 himself to Marian as Fernand knocklus Remarkle is the explanation 0:40:57.400 --> 0:41:00.759 for why Marian changed her name to Flora Belle Natalia 0:41:00.920 --> 0:41:04.920 Marian remarkle, and we support you in making finding to 0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:07.560 that effect. Your honor knows that that happened in the 0:41:07.680 --> 0:41:10.239 very same time period, a couple of months before she 0:41:10.360 --> 0:41:13.600 went overseas, and your honor knows that Marian's selling her 0:41:13.640 --> 0:41:16.600 house and resigning for her employment also happened in the 0:41:16.719 --> 0:41:20.080 same period of time that mister Blum first became acquainted 0:41:20.160 --> 0:41:23.600 with Marian in nineteen ninety seven, in February or at 0:41:23.640 --> 0:41:27.280 the latest, very early March. Now, some of the debate 0:41:27.440 --> 0:41:30.399 may be on the meaning of a causative role. Now 0:41:30.440 --> 0:41:33.320 we don't suggest, we're not asking you on a defined 0:41:33.440 --> 0:41:36.400 that it was the main cause or the only cause 0:41:36.440 --> 0:41:39.600 of Marian resigning her employment and selling a house, but 0:41:39.760 --> 0:41:42.320 we're asking you to refine that it was a cause. 0:41:42.760 --> 0:41:45.360 There was evidence, certainly from Sally and Chris, that that 0:41:45.520 --> 0:41:48.680 sale felt very rushed, and also that the intention to 0:41:48.760 --> 0:41:52.120 sell her house wasn't disclosed prior to February of nineteen 0:41:52.200 --> 0:41:55.560 ninety seven. It wasn't disclosed to her family at Christmas 0:41:55.640 --> 0:41:59.400 of nineteen ninety six, for example, we say it's very improbable, 0:41:59.600 --> 0:42:02.480 most unlikely that her decision to sell her house and 0:42:02.680 --> 0:42:06.160 resign for her employment were unconnected to her involvement with 0:42:06.239 --> 0:42:08.920 mister Blum at that time, And of course it should 0:42:08.920 --> 0:42:11.520 be borne in mind that the nature of mister Blum's 0:42:11.560 --> 0:42:14.600 involvement with Marian at this time is that he was 0:42:14.680 --> 0:42:18.160 suggesting to her that they should travel overseas, potentially with 0:42:18.280 --> 0:42:21.480 the prospect of starting a new life. And so all 0:42:21.640 --> 0:42:24.920 these drastic life decisions on selling the house at a loss, 0:42:25.320 --> 0:42:29.480 resigning from employment, changing name, all feed into that narrative, 0:42:29.560 --> 0:42:32.759 and all feed into mister Blum being at least a 0:42:32.880 --> 0:42:36.280 causative role, if not the sole or primary cause. 0:42:36.960 --> 0:42:40.160 Mister Smith asserts that mister Blum was with Marion Barter 0:42:40.360 --> 0:42:44.279 during her trip to England, particularly given his familiarity with 0:42:44.440 --> 0:42:48.439 southern England, an area where he once lived. He also 0:42:48.560 --> 0:42:51.320 claimed that mister Blum would likely have had contact with 0:42:51.480 --> 0:42:55.839 Marion upon her return to Australia in August nineteen ninety seven. 0:42:56.120 --> 0:42:59.239 Of course, the evidence is somewhat unclear about exactly what 0:42:59.440 --> 0:43:02.160 Marian was doing and where she was living at the time, 0:43:02.520 --> 0:43:06.240 but we say your honor taking everything together. Mister Blum 0:43:06.320 --> 0:43:09.440 and Marian re entered Australia within two days of each other. 0:43:09.960 --> 0:43:13.120 Marian indicated on her incoming passenger card that she was 0:43:13.239 --> 0:43:16.520 married and that she was a resident of Luxembourg. Your 0:43:16.560 --> 0:43:19.640 honor knows that only two years later mister Blum went 0:43:19.680 --> 0:43:22.640 to the UK with Janet Oldenburg on a trip which 0:43:22.680 --> 0:43:26.279 had many similar characteristics to what the evidence bears out 0:43:26.360 --> 0:43:29.600 about Marion's trip to the UK, and your honor knows 0:43:29.680 --> 0:43:34.200 that when Janet Oldenburg returned to Australia separately from mister Blum, 0:43:34.600 --> 0:43:37.840 there was further contact between them after that time, and 0:43:37.960 --> 0:43:40.360 it was not a short leap to find, on the 0:43:40.480 --> 0:43:44.040 balance of probabilities that mister Blum did have contact with 0:43:44.160 --> 0:43:46.560 Marian after she returned to Australia. 0:43:47.120 --> 0:43:50.480 Mister Smith highlighted the significance of mister Blum purchasing a 0:43:50.600 --> 0:43:54.520 car two days before Marion Barter's Medicare card was used 0:43:54.600 --> 0:43:58.040 as an optometrist in Grafton, a car that was sold 0:43:58.160 --> 0:44:02.000 only months later. We also made some very good points 0:44:02.080 --> 0:44:05.480 about why so many withdrawals from Marion's bank accounts had 0:44:05.560 --> 0:44:07.399 taken place at Byron Bay. 0:44:07.880 --> 0:44:11.279 It is difficult to rationalize why Marian came back having 0:44:11.360 --> 0:44:14.120 had her life on the Gold Coast and apart from 0:44:14.200 --> 0:44:17.279 two bank withdrawals at Burly Heads. There's no evidence that 0:44:17.400 --> 0:44:20.520 she went near the Gold Coast. All the evidence suggests 0:44:20.600 --> 0:44:23.680 that she was in the Byron Bay, Grafton Northern Rivers 0:44:23.719 --> 0:44:27.040 region of New South Wales, precisely where mister Blum was 0:44:27.120 --> 0:44:30.839 living at that time, and we think that's particularly significant 0:44:31.160 --> 0:44:33.840 when one bears in mind the absence of any particular 0:44:33.920 --> 0:44:37.440 connection between Marion and Byron Bay, and the very close 0:44:37.600 --> 0:44:41.560 temporal relationship between Marion and what we know about what 0:44:41.840 --> 0:44:44.919 Marian was doing at the time and what mister Blum 0:44:45.080 --> 0:44:45.919 was doing at the time. 0:44:46.480 --> 0:44:46.920 It should be. 0:44:46.960 --> 0:44:50.040 Noted that Marian had no particular connection to Byron Bay, 0:44:50.360 --> 0:44:53.120 or there is no evidence that she did. There was 0:44:53.239 --> 0:44:56.440 some evidence that she occasionally went shopping there from one 0:44:56.480 --> 0:44:59.319 of her friends, and Sally gave evidence that Marian did 0:44:59.400 --> 0:45:02.319 not regular traveled to Byron Bay before she left. 0:45:04.040 --> 0:45:08.040 Mister Smith also claimed that mister Blum was likely involved 0:45:08.160 --> 0:45:11.520 in the withdrawal of eighty thousand dollars from Marion Barter's 0:45:11.560 --> 0:45:17.160 bank account on October fifteen, nineteen ninety seven, that's just 0:45:17.360 --> 0:45:20.279 a week before Sally went to Byron Bay searching for 0:45:20.360 --> 0:45:23.640 her mother on October twenty second, and reported the matter 0:45:23.760 --> 0:45:24.320 to police. 0:45:25.760 --> 0:45:28.440 Sally found out that money had been withdrawn from her 0:45:28.520 --> 0:45:31.439 mother's account very very proximate to the time at which 0:45:31.520 --> 0:45:35.120 it occurred, i e. The twenty second of October, which 0:45:35.280 --> 0:45:38.200 is a week after the large transaction on the fifteenth 0:45:38.280 --> 0:45:42.560 of October nineteen ninety seven, she went to police. Now, 0:45:42.600 --> 0:45:45.000 of course, there's every reason to think that if an 0:45:45.040 --> 0:45:47.920 investigation had been opened at the time, and if it 0:45:48.000 --> 0:45:51.279 had been a proper investigation, then there's every reason to 0:45:51.400 --> 0:45:55.760 think that the documents would have been available. Marian's bank records. 0:45:55.320 --> 0:45:56.560 Would have been available. 0:45:57.200 --> 0:45:59.759 The person who saw her, if someone did see her 0:45:59.760 --> 0:46:03.040 at the bank, would have been there, could have been interviewed, 0:46:03.360 --> 0:46:06.440 would have had a recollection of what happened. It is 0:46:06.560 --> 0:46:10.319 very possible and indeed likely, if an investigation had been 0:46:10.360 --> 0:46:13.480 open at that time, that Marian would have been located, 0:46:13.800 --> 0:46:16.200 or that Sally would have found out more about what 0:46:16.360 --> 0:46:19.280 happened to her mother than she knows sitting here twenty 0:46:19.360 --> 0:46:24.000 five years later. On the second matter, mister Blum's involvement 0:46:24.080 --> 0:46:26.680 in the large withdrawal or transfer of funds on the 0:46:26.760 --> 0:46:30.040 fifteenth of October nineteen ninety seven, we accept there is 0:46:30.120 --> 0:46:33.440 no direct evidence of his involvement. But of course that 0:46:33.600 --> 0:46:35.920 is true of many things. In this inquest given we 0:46:36.040 --> 0:46:38.919 are talking about events that happened twenty five years ago, 0:46:39.440 --> 0:46:42.680 and as we submit, that were not properly investigated at 0:46:42.719 --> 0:46:46.480 the time, leading to the loss of relevant documentary evidence. 0:46:47.160 --> 0:46:50.360 But in this regard, when we speak of involvement, that ranges, 0:46:50.400 --> 0:46:53.880 as I've said, from persuading Marian to withdraw or transfer 0:46:54.000 --> 0:46:56.640 the money to start a new life overseas, if you 0:46:56.719 --> 0:46:59.239 want to accept that that is most likely what the 0:46:59.360 --> 0:47:02.120 nature of the real relationship was between Marian and mister 0:47:02.160 --> 0:47:05.200 Blum at this time. That range is then to mister 0:47:05.280 --> 0:47:09.839 Blum requiring or otherwise forcing Marian to withdraw that money, 0:47:10.200 --> 0:47:13.040 or it ranges to a fraudulent transaction where that money 0:47:13.120 --> 0:47:16.279 was obtained by deception. And your honor of course heard 0:47:16.320 --> 0:47:19.160 the evidence of mister Blum's history of fraud, and in 0:47:19.320 --> 0:47:23.360 particular part of that history includes specific convictions for opening 0:47:23.440 --> 0:47:27.239 bank accounts and using checks in fake names. Now, it's 0:47:27.320 --> 0:47:29.919 certainly not in every case where you have a large 0:47:30.000 --> 0:47:33.560 transaction with scant or limited evidence about its nature. 0:47:33.760 --> 0:47:36.520 Mister Smith takes aim at the New South Wales Police 0:47:36.560 --> 0:47:39.160 for the way they handled the matter, and also the 0:47:39.239 --> 0:47:43.800 Queensland Police, which briefly looked into the case. Both authorities 0:47:44.080 --> 0:47:48.680 came to the conclusion that Marian had chosen to intentionally disappear, 0:47:49.160 --> 0:47:53.000 even though neither had actually spoken to her in person 0:47:53.600 --> 0:47:54.359 or cited her. 0:47:54.840 --> 0:47:56.600 All that can be said is that between when she 0:47:56.719 --> 0:47:58.960 came back into the country on the second of August 0:47:59.320 --> 0:48:01.520 and when the large sum of money was withdrawn on 0:48:01.560 --> 0:48:04.840 the fifteenth of October, we, of course except that Marian 0:48:04.920 --> 0:48:08.000 did not contact any of her family or friends, and 0:48:08.120 --> 0:48:10.880 that one can only infer that that was a conscious 0:48:10.920 --> 0:48:14.600 act on her part. But certainly beyond that we embraced 0:48:14.640 --> 0:48:17.160 the position that the court simply can't say what happened 0:48:17.160 --> 0:48:20.360 to Marian after the fifteenth of October nineteen ninety seven, 0:48:20.800 --> 0:48:24.279 other than to unfortunately conclude that the family accepts that 0:48:24.400 --> 0:48:28.479 a finding that Marian is deceased is appropriate. A number 0:48:28.520 --> 0:48:31.800 of witnesses gave oral evidence or written evidence that it 0:48:31.920 --> 0:48:35.040 was very out of character for Marian to disappear entirely 0:48:35.160 --> 0:48:38.719 and severtize with her family. And secondly, Your Honor would 0:48:38.719 --> 0:48:41.440 have to regard in our submission for the evidence that 0:48:41.600 --> 0:48:46.160 Marian remained in contact with her family and friends whilst overseas, 0:48:46.640 --> 0:48:49.520 and in the case of her sister Deirdre, went to 0:48:49.600 --> 0:48:52.600 great lengths to ensure that she received a birthday present 0:48:52.800 --> 0:48:55.839 well ahead of time. Now, of course, Marian was doing 0:48:55.920 --> 0:48:58.799 all of those things whilst having left the country under 0:48:58.840 --> 0:49:02.600 a new name, without having disclosed that new name. But 0:49:02.719 --> 0:49:05.160 the fact remains that she was writing to friends and 0:49:05.280 --> 0:49:08.600 family under the name Marion Barter, and that she called 0:49:08.719 --> 0:49:11.799 Sally one or two days before she came back into 0:49:11.840 --> 0:49:14.920 the country. So there is a consistent course of conduct 0:49:15.080 --> 0:49:18.680 during the time she was away of contacting friends and family, 0:49:19.080 --> 0:49:21.440 and you want to have all that in mind when 0:49:21.480 --> 0:49:24.360 your honor is considering what findings can be made about 0:49:24.480 --> 0:49:28.840 Marion's disappearance being intentional after her return to Australia on 0:49:28.920 --> 0:49:31.400 the second of August nineteen ninety seven. 0:49:32.000 --> 0:49:35.160 The inadequacies of the police, whose duty it was to 0:49:35.280 --> 0:49:40.080 properly investigate Marion's disappearance are well documented right from the 0:49:40.160 --> 0:49:43.239 time Sally walked into the Byron Bay Police station in 0:49:43.360 --> 0:49:48.480 nineteen ninety seven. Yet the barrister representing New South Wales Police, 0:49:48.880 --> 0:49:54.080 Kim Burke, denied any criticism of any of the offices involved. 0:49:54.800 --> 0:49:58.640 The evidence regarding seeing your Constable Child's action and recording 0:49:58.719 --> 0:50:01.360 the incident as an occur It's only needs to be 0:50:01.480 --> 0:50:04.200 viewed in the context of one his experience, what it 0:50:04.360 --> 0:50:06.320 was that he knew and what it was that he 0:50:06.520 --> 0:50:08.880 was told, and in the context of the amount of 0:50:08.920 --> 0:50:12.040 training he had with respect to a person reported missing. 0:50:12.520 --> 0:50:14.680 His evidence was that he was not aware of the 0:50:14.680 --> 0:50:18.600 Commissioner's instructions one three nine, and his evidence was that 0:50:18.760 --> 0:50:21.440 he believed the only training he had was in nineteen 0:50:21.560 --> 0:50:24.400 seventy seven. It also needs to be viewed in the 0:50:24.480 --> 0:50:27.240 context that he had never dealt with a missing person's 0:50:27.320 --> 0:50:28.439 case before as well. 0:50:28.840 --> 0:50:32.600 Miss Burke's next point is upsetting. She actually tells the 0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:36.880 coroner that the police investigation wasn't treated as a priority 0:50:37.560 --> 0:50:41.800 because of the way Marian Barter's daughter, Sally Leyden reported it. 0:50:42.600 --> 0:50:47.840 Yes, seriously, the impression formed by former Senior Constable Childs 0:50:48.200 --> 0:50:50.879 was that Sally was not reporting the mother missing. Rather, 0:50:51.000 --> 0:50:53.920 it was more in relation to the transactions. He didn't 0:50:53.920 --> 0:50:56.080 get a sense of urgency, and it was more along 0:50:56.120 --> 0:50:59.719 the lines that Sally wanted some information being recorded. In 0:51:00.280 --> 0:51:03.800 Sally's evidence, she said she assumed that she'd be reported missing, 0:51:04.200 --> 0:51:06.400 but she didn't ask for her to be reported missing. 0:51:06.840 --> 0:51:10.960 Former Senior Constable Childs used the words concern for safety. 0:51:11.360 --> 0:51:13.719 He said it was poorly worded and at the time, 0:51:13.840 --> 0:51:16.640 because of the information he had, he felt it should 0:51:16.640 --> 0:51:19.879 be recorded as an occurrence only. He said, had there 0:51:19.960 --> 0:51:23.239 been concerned for her safety and well being, he would 0:51:23.239 --> 0:51:26.640 have had no hesitation in recording it as a missing person. 0:51:27.160 --> 0:51:29.640 The Cops event itself states that the next of kin 0:51:29.800 --> 0:51:32.640 are concerned the mother had returned to the country and 0:51:32.880 --> 0:51:36.240 had not contacted her. There's no reference in the police 0:51:36.320 --> 0:51:39.160 notebook or in the Cops entry that Sally's concern for 0:51:39.239 --> 0:51:42.880 the welfare was predicated upon her mother's failure to contact 0:51:42.920 --> 0:51:46.000 her brother for his birthday on the eighteenth of October. 0:51:46.480 --> 0:51:49.200 It is my submission that that in itself not appearing 0:51:49.320 --> 0:51:52.520 in those documents is also indicative that there was not 0:51:52.640 --> 0:51:55.840 the concern of welfare and safety being conveyed by Sally 0:51:56.200 --> 0:51:59.560 to former Senior Constable Childs. There was nothing recorded in 0:51:59.600 --> 0:52:02.560 the police notebook that a photo of Marian was taken. 0:52:02.880 --> 0:52:06.040 Not content with blaming Sally for the police not taking 0:52:06.120 --> 0:52:10.000 her seriously, Miss Burke then questions Sally's memory. 0:52:10.400 --> 0:52:13.360 Sally's evidence in terms of various issues with respect to 0:52:13.440 --> 0:52:16.160 her memory show the fragility of her memory, and I'm 0:52:16.200 --> 0:52:18.920 not criticizing her for that, but my point, in relation 0:52:19.040 --> 0:52:21.839 to accepting the evidence from Sally that she in fact 0:52:21.960 --> 0:52:24.319 got a phone call from New South Wales Police from 0:52:24.360 --> 0:52:28.600 the barn Bay Police station unsupported by any objective evidence. 0:52:28.680 --> 0:52:31.200 In my submission, your honor does not meet the desired 0:52:31.280 --> 0:52:32.440 probability standard. 0:52:32.880 --> 0:52:36.239 Remember, Sally was watching on as Miss Burg piled all 0:52:36.320 --> 0:52:39.600 of the failings of the police into her lap. She 0:52:39.760 --> 0:52:43.120 kept going, suggesting police were of the belief that Sally 0:52:43.239 --> 0:52:46.240 wanted to know why her mother decided to estrange herself, 0:52:46.840 --> 0:52:48.959 not that there were concerns for her well being. 0:52:49.560 --> 0:52:53.040 It's apparent from the evidence given by Detective Senior Constable 0:52:53.160 --> 0:52:56.560 Shean that he understood that Sally understood that her mother 0:52:56.680 --> 0:52:59.560 had estranged herself from the family, that she wanted to 0:52:59.640 --> 0:53:02.439 know why. And one can understand that as the daughter, 0:53:02.520 --> 0:53:04.759 you'd want to know why your mother would ever do 0:53:04.920 --> 0:53:07.839 that to you. That is different to understanding in terms 0:53:07.880 --> 0:53:11.680 of reporting somebody missing and concern for safety and welfare. 0:53:12.120 --> 0:53:15.600 New South Wales Police don't investigate the reasons why. That's 0:53:15.640 --> 0:53:18.160 a personal matter that needs to be done elsewhere, not 0:53:18.320 --> 0:53:19.800 by the New South Wales Police. 0:53:20.360 --> 0:53:24.640 That is a strange statement. When police investigate crimes, they 0:53:24.680 --> 0:53:27.759 are required to investigate the why as much as the what. 0:53:28.480 --> 0:53:32.480 It is difficult to get a murder conviction without a motive. Next, 0:53:32.680 --> 0:53:35.839 Miss Burke claims that when Detective Gary Sheen was put 0:53:35.880 --> 0:53:39.480 on the case years after Marion disappeared and was finally 0:53:39.560 --> 0:53:43.320 classified as missing, he was under resourced. 0:53:43.320 --> 0:53:46.239 In relation to detective Senior Constables she and your honor. 0:53:46.320 --> 0:53:48.759 His evidence needs to be viewed in the context of 0:53:48.920 --> 0:53:52.399 taking over an investigation that was opened by the Missing 0:53:52.520 --> 0:53:56.120 Persons Unit in two thousand and seven. His evidence also 0:53:56.320 --> 0:53:58.200 needs to be viewed in the context that he was 0:53:58.320 --> 0:54:00.600 not part of a strike force. He didn't have the 0:54:00.640 --> 0:54:04.640 degree of resources available to the very dedicated investigating offices 0:54:04.760 --> 0:54:09.040 in this particular inquest. He second guessed himself on two occasions, 0:54:09.360 --> 0:54:11.080 and as for the file to be reviewed by the 0:54:11.160 --> 0:54:14.640 Crime Squad Commander and Byron, he was told his investigation 0:54:14.960 --> 0:54:18.040 was appropriately done. He also asked for it to be 0:54:18.200 --> 0:54:21.120 overseen and reviewed by the Homicide Squad and that was 0:54:21.200 --> 0:54:25.600 in July twenty nineteen, and again the investigation was approved. 0:54:25.920 --> 0:54:30.040 As identified by Detective Inspector Brown, proper procedure was followed 0:54:30.320 --> 0:54:33.759 in terms of having his recommendations or report which is 0:54:33.840 --> 0:54:36.920 contained in his statement reviewed by the manager of the 0:54:37.000 --> 0:54:40.160 then Missing Persons Unit with New South Wales Police. That 0:54:40.320 --> 0:54:43.520 manager signed off on the recommendation that Marian b removed 0:54:43.600 --> 0:54:46.360 as a missing person. Now that's an important piece of 0:54:46.400 --> 0:54:50.800 crucial information in terms of any consideration of criticizing Detective 0:54:50.880 --> 0:54:53.719 Senior Constable Sheean, because he didn't go off on a 0:54:53.800 --> 0:54:56.839 frolic by himself. He actually made sure he went through 0:54:56.880 --> 0:55:00.120 the proper chain of command. Detective Inspector Brown, with his 0:55:00.280 --> 0:55:03.759 degree of expertise, did criticize saying she should not have 0:55:03.880 --> 0:55:06.960 been taken off the missing person's list, but having said that, 0:55:07.120 --> 0:55:09.640 it was approved by the then manager of the Missing 0:55:09.719 --> 0:55:10.480 Persons unit. 0:55:11.680 --> 0:55:14.359 Again, the only reason Marian was put on the missing 0:55:14.440 --> 0:55:18.800 person's list and a new police investigation launched is because 0:55:18.880 --> 0:55:22.840 Sally met Allison and they recruited the team for this podcast. 0:55:23.719 --> 0:55:26.280 It's a shame Miss Burke wasn't there when I interviewed 0:55:26.280 --> 0:55:31.239 Detective Senior Constable Gary Shehan in twenty nineteen, because she 0:55:31.320 --> 0:55:34.280 would have heard him tell me that he felt sorry 0:55:34.360 --> 0:55:37.760 for Sally because it was obvious her mother had definitely 0:55:37.840 --> 0:55:41.120 decided on her own to dump her family and start 0:55:41.160 --> 0:55:45.040 a new life. He never mentioned being underresourced to me. 0:55:45.840 --> 0:55:48.759 In fact, he said he had done everything possible, which 0:55:48.880 --> 0:55:52.719 he claimed supported his theory that Marian had simply disappeared 0:55:52.760 --> 0:55:57.680 by choice. Counsel assisting the coroner, Tracy Stevens, concluded the 0:55:57.719 --> 0:56:02.760 submissions with this very strongly worded criticism miss Burke's argument 0:56:03.239 --> 0:56:06.359 that the New South Wales Police did nothing wrong at all. 0:56:06.920 --> 0:56:09.200 I have some comments by way of replying to the 0:56:09.280 --> 0:56:12.560 approach taken by New South Wales Police. There should be, 0:56:12.840 --> 0:56:15.880 in our view, your honor, no criticism of Sally's actions 0:56:15.920 --> 0:56:18.920 at the time in nineteen ninety seven, or in two 0:56:19.040 --> 0:56:22.719 thousand and seven or any time thereafter. There should be 0:56:22.800 --> 0:56:25.560 no suggestion that she has in any way delayed the 0:56:25.640 --> 0:56:28.880 investigation by New South Wales Police, or behaved in a 0:56:28.920 --> 0:56:32.240 manner that, in our submission, can be described as nothing 0:56:32.360 --> 0:56:36.560 less than totally understandable and consistent with a daughter very 0:56:36.719 --> 0:56:41.000 confused and anxious at finding out about her mother's circumstances 0:56:41.080 --> 0:56:43.640 at that time. I do feel compelled to say that 0:56:43.760 --> 0:56:46.880 it is unfortunate that there has been this resistance to 0:56:47.040 --> 0:56:51.319 accepting the inadequacies of the police investigation, which are clear 0:56:51.440 --> 0:56:54.320 on the face of the documentary records from nineteen ninety 0:56:54.400 --> 0:56:58.400 seven and the year's following. There has, from our understanding, 0:56:58.440 --> 0:57:00.960 Your Honor, been an attempt by U South Wales Police 0:57:01.000 --> 0:57:04.600 to perhaps try and reconcile the actions taken by Officer 0:57:04.719 --> 0:57:07.960 Childs and Officer Shean with the approach that's been commented 0:57:08.040 --> 0:57:11.080 upon by Detective Inspector Brown. From my reading of the 0:57:11.120 --> 0:57:13.160 evidence you're on a Detective Brown does not give his 0:57:13.280 --> 0:57:16.640 opinion in any way in hindsight or from above or 0:57:16.640 --> 0:57:19.800 from a different perspective that is somehow less relevant to 0:57:19.840 --> 0:57:22.760 an officer who was on the ground. Detective Brown gave 0:57:23.000 --> 0:57:25.680 very clear and useful evidence to the court about what 0:57:25.840 --> 0:57:28.960 he expected should have happened in nineteen ninety seven. 0:57:30.400 --> 0:57:34.000 Miss Stevens also said that Sally Layden and her counsel 0:57:34.280 --> 0:57:38.080 should not be curtailed from making submissions in regards to 0:57:38.200 --> 0:57:45.400 the conduct of the police investigation. Unfortunately, it's too late 0:57:45.720 --> 0:57:50.520 to include Alexandra and Glayne's testimony for consideration by the coroner, 0:57:50.840 --> 0:57:54.880 as the evidence component of the inquest is now closed, 0:57:56.480 --> 0:58:01.680 but she can recommend New South Wales Police continue investigating 0:58:01.800 --> 0:58:05.480 Rick Blum in relation to mounting evidence of him being 0:58:05.640 --> 0:58:13.560 involved in Marion's disappearance. State Coroner Teresa O'Sullivan then wraps 0:58:13.600 --> 0:58:14.400 up the proceedings. 0:58:15.920 --> 0:58:18.959 I'd just like to thank the legal representatives. I would 0:58:19.120 --> 0:58:22.000 like to thank Sally and her family for your participation. 0:58:22.360 --> 0:58:26.000 I know it hasn't been easy, but it's much appreciated 0:58:26.080 --> 0:58:30.000 your participation and involvement. I'd like to thank the investigating 0:58:30.080 --> 0:58:34.440 offices again for the incredible professionalism and an enormous amount 0:58:34.480 --> 0:58:37.600 of work put into this case, and my counsel assisting 0:58:37.720 --> 0:58:39.880 team for their enormous assistance to me. 0:58:40.680 --> 0:58:41.640 We will adjourn for. 0:58:41.720 --> 0:58:44.240 Findings, which will be delivered at ten am on the 0:58:44.400 --> 0:58:47.000 thirtieth of November here at Lidcombe. 0:58:49.640 --> 0:58:53.240 Before then, we have two more episodes to release, which 0:58:53.280 --> 0:58:57.640 will include a more in depth look into Rickblum's alleged 0:58:57.720 --> 0:59:03.480 nefarious activities in Europe and an interview with one of 0:59:03.560 --> 0:59:07.520 Australia's top detectives who reveals what it takes to crack 0:59:07.640 --> 0:59:09.280 a decade's old cold case. 0:59:09.760 --> 0:59:12.520 When you have these old matters and you think you 0:59:12.640 --> 0:59:15.120 know you're never going to get a result, just keep 0:59:15.200 --> 0:59:18.320 going at it. Do not give up, don't let it 0:59:18.440 --> 0:59:22.040 go because, as we've seen in this matter could have 0:59:22.080 --> 0:59:25.800 been easily forgotten about and never reserviced again. And follow 0:59:26.000 --> 0:59:29.440 every lead down a rabbit hole, because you never know 0:59:29.520 --> 0:59:30.320 what you're going to find. 0:59:34.720 --> 0:59:38.000 If you knew Marian or have any information about her 0:59:38.320 --> 0:59:42.280 or her whereabouts, we'd love to hear from you. Our 0:59:42.320 --> 0:59:46.760 website is sevenews dot com dot au slash news slash 0:59:46.880 --> 0:59:51.120 the Lady Vanishers and you can also message us here. 0:59:52.520 --> 0:59:55.080 You can also send us an anonymous tip at the 0:59:55.200 --> 0:59:59.160 Lady Vanishes dot org. If you like what you're hearing, 0:59:59.280 --> 1:00:03.040 don't forget to subscribe, Please rate and review our series. 1:00:03.200 --> 1:00:08.320 It helps new listeners find us. Presenter and executive producer 1:00:08.560 --> 1:00:15.480 Alison Sandy, investigative journalist Brian Seymour, producer and writer Sally Eels. 1:00:16.760 --> 1:00:23.520 Researcher Joony Condos, sound design Mark Wright, Graphics Jason Blandford. 1:00:24.040 --> 1:00:28.520 Transcripts and translation Estelle Sanchez. The theme and much of 1:00:28.560 --> 1:00:32.640 the music by Nicholas Gasparini at the Darkpiano dot com. 1:00:33.640 --> 1:00:38.880 Thanks again to the Alliance Francis. This is a seven 1:00:38.960 --> 1:00:39.680 News production.