Speaker 1: This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother, teacher
Speaker 1: friend missing for twenty five years.
Speaker 2: You know, no sign that she was going to vanish.
Speaker 3: That's for sure.
Speaker 1: The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance, I'm not.
Speaker 4: Sure if it was intentional or if there's something more
Speaker 4: foul afoot. If you could imagine a teacher coming straight
Speaker 4: from say little house on the prairie to the eighties,
Speaker 4: that was Marian Barter.
Speaker 5: What I say, whether you find Marian Barter dead or alive,
Speaker 5: I honestly believe somebody has that key piece of information.
Speaker 1: And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum.
Speaker 6: Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave.
Speaker 1: I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure
Speaker 1: that somebody knows something. The Lady Vanishes, Episode forty three.
Speaker 1: I'm Alison Sandy.
Speaker 2: And I'm Brian Seymour.
Speaker 1: Last month, out of the Blue, we received an email
Speaker 1: from a woman in Belgium who just found out about
Speaker 1: our podcast. Her name is Alexandra Piraboom. She'd also read
Speaker 1: some of the news articles about the bizarre disappearance of
Speaker 1: Marion Bart and was overwhelmed by what she discovered. You see,
Speaker 1: it all sounded so familiar.
Speaker 2: Because back in two thousand and six, Alexandra Piraboom's mother
Speaker 2: in law had been wooed and promised the world by
Speaker 2: a mysterious man, a man who traded in coins and
Speaker 2: traveled a lot, a man that the family didn't know
Speaker 2: much about. After a whirlwind romance, Misspiraboom's mother in law
Speaker 2: announced that she was going to get married, sell her
Speaker 2: house and her car, and start a new life in Australia.
Speaker 1: Oh and the name of this mysterious man, well, no
Speaker 1: doubt it will set off some alarm bells. Frederic Deheevari, Yes,
Speaker 1: one of the many monikers used by the name we
Speaker 1: currently know as Rick Blum. Here's the email we received
Speaker 1: from Alexandra Piraboom in October.
Speaker 6: Dear Madam, dear sir. Last week have heard for the
Speaker 6: first time about Marian Barter as I was making a
Speaker 6: search on Internet about Frederic d' dovari. My mother in
Speaker 6: law was a victim of Frederic Duvari in two thousand
Speaker 6: and six. At that time she contacted the police at
Speaker 6: teverin Belgium. But since that time we never heard anything
Speaker 6: about him, except one time from the police of Tournay, Belgium,
Speaker 6: because he had made a new victim yesterday. I sent
Speaker 6: a testimony of what happened to the Belgian Federal Police.
Speaker 6: Please contact directly the Belgian police for more details. I
Speaker 6: have also tried to send my testimony in French via
Speaker 6: this website New South Wales dot crimestoppers dot com dot au,
Speaker 6: but I'm not sure that they received it. I'm sorry
Speaker 6: my English level is not good enough to explain the
Speaker 6: details clearly, but feel free to contact me if you
Speaker 6: have any questions. Best regards, Alexandra Peerbum.
Speaker 2: Miss Piraboom has spoken with Tom and Yannik, our colleagues
Speaker 2: at the Luxembourg Word newspaper, and we have interviewed miss
Speaker 2: Piraboom with the help of one of our team, Estelle Sanchez,
Speaker 2: in French. Miss Piraboom does not speaking English. We are
Speaker 2: passing that on to authorities and lawyers along with the
Speaker 2: statement she provided to police in Belgium. It is written
Speaker 2: in French, which we have translated. At the top.
Speaker 6: It says concern Frederic Dedovarin.
Speaker 2: Testimony concerning Frederic de Hedevari and in brackets.
Speaker 6: Elis rig Blum alias.
Speaker 2: Rick Blum and other pseudonyms.
Speaker 6: Then disparision de Marienbachter.
Speaker 2: Disappearance of Marion Barter, brackets articles read in the media.
Speaker 2: Here is what miss Pireboom had to say.
Speaker 6: Monday, October tenth. Just then I ad a federal police
Speaker 6: officer on the phone that I've contacted via the following
Speaker 6: phone number eight. I briefly explain the reason of my
Speaker 6: call and I put in writing more details below. Last
Speaker 6: week I researched the name Frederic de Adavari, whom my
Speaker 6: mother in law was a victim of in two thousand
Speaker 6: and six. By accident, I stumbled upon an article in
Speaker 6: a Lexembourg journal published on July tenth, twenty twenty two,
Speaker 6: about the disappearance of Mayan Bart, whose story I was
Speaker 6: completely unaware of. I'm terribly outraged when reading the story
Speaker 6: because I realized that my mother in law had a
Speaker 6: similar experience in two thousand and six with the same swindler.
Speaker 6: The modus operandi that Frederic de Odavari, Alis rig Blam
Speaker 6: and other pseudonyms used to defraud my mother in law
Speaker 6: was identical to the one used for Mayan BARTA meeting
Speaker 6: there an ad the selling of the house, cash withdrawal
Speaker 6: departure for Australia without saying goodbye to her kids. Fortunately,
Speaker 6: the story didn't go as far. My mother in law
Speaker 6: luckily is still alive. The swindler disappeared just before the
Speaker 6: scheduled departure to Australia. My mother in law, Gislaine de boisd'onlois,
Speaker 6: lodged a complaint to the Teverrian police in September two
Speaker 6: thousand and six, a few years after she was contacted
Speaker 6: by the Tourney police regarding another victim of Frederic d'erdavari
Speaker 6: that barely got away and to whom the exact same
Speaker 6: thing happened. I would like to describe to you the
Speaker 6: memory I have of Frederick d'rdavari, since this individual looked
Speaker 6: dangerous to me right from the first time that I
Speaker 6: saw him. I had the occasion to meet Frederic on
Speaker 6: August nine, two thousand and six. The memory of that
Speaker 6: nine makes my blood run cold. A few days before,
Speaker 6: my mother in law announced her of three children who
Speaker 6: were living in Belgium, that she wished to gather the
Speaker 6: whole family to announce a very important news. We didn't
Speaker 6: know what it was all about. Her son, who was
Speaker 6: living in friends couldn't make the trip for that reason,
Speaker 6: she organized a trip to France, where we were all
Speaker 6: invited as well. On the scheduled day, I went to
Speaker 6: my mother in law's at Teverinn with my partner, Gabrielle
Speaker 6: Dubois and ad two year old son. The rest of
Speaker 6: the family was there as well. When I entered the house,
Speaker 6: I saw a man that I didn't know and greeted
Speaker 6: him in a hurry, thinking that he was a neighbor
Speaker 6: that came unexpectedly since we didn't get introduced. When the
Speaker 6: whole family arrived, my mother in law poured us champagne
Speaker 6: flutes and announced, here is Frederick. We love each other,
Speaker 6: we are getting married, and we are going to live
Speaker 6: in Australia. We were all shocked to hear such a
Speaker 6: brutal news. I remember that we could feel the emotion
Speaker 6: for my mother in law, while Frederick remained as called
Speaker 6: as house as if he wasn't involved in this news.
Speaker 6: Some family members were trying to lighten the mood by
Speaker 6: asking a few questions to the men of this festive meal.
Speaker 6: Frederick had prepared a spaghetti bowl in his dish with
Speaker 6: starr andese. We sat down to eat in front of everyone,
Speaker 6: He told different notable anecdotes of his life. He explained
Speaker 6: that he was first to gendarme in Belgium, then, following
Speaker 6: an accident, he left for Australia. His accident left its
Speaker 6: mark because he walked with a limp. We all noticed it.
Speaker 6: During meal time, he kept on telling ghoulish and unhealthy stories.
Speaker 6: He said he took part in the Vietnamese War as
Speaker 6: an Australian Army volunteer. He told us a greesome story
Speaker 6: about it. He was made a war prisoner and was
Speaker 6: put in a hole so narrow that he could only
Speaker 6: stand up. Next to him in another hole was a
Speaker 6: Vietnamese woman who was a prisoner like him. He gave
Speaker 6: us sordid details regarding the agony and death of that woman.
Speaker 6: I don't remember it. I felt very uneasy towards what
Speaker 6: he was explaining. I thought he was completely inappropriate to
Speaker 6: tell those kinds of details to people we are seeing
Speaker 6: for the first time. During the night, he also mentioned poisons.
Speaker 6: I remember it because that particular subject came back in
Speaker 6: discussions a few weeks after.
Speaker 1: Just hitting the pause for a moment, did anyone else's
Speaker 1: ease prick up at the mention of poison. Anyway, on
Speaker 1: with missus Piriboom's statement.
Speaker 6: He told us he was a new missmatist professional, which
Speaker 6: means he went around the world looking for different types
Speaker 6: of rare and ancient currencies and this was what justifies
Speaker 6: his numerous travels. The night came to an end and
Speaker 6: we asked Frederic if we could see him before his
Speaker 6: departure for Australia. He said that it's unlikely because he
Speaker 6: was very busy. The next day, Augusta tenth I was
Speaker 6: going on the holiday to France with my partner and
Speaker 6: my son. We had to see my mother in law
Speaker 6: again in Khakasan a few days after so she could
Speaker 6: announce verbally the news of her departure to his son
Speaker 6: who lived in the southware to friends. During this family meeting,
Speaker 6: we talked more freely since Frederic d' davari was in there.
Speaker 6: We learned that my mother in law was going to
Speaker 6: sell a house and all that was inside, as well
Speaker 6: as her car, prior to a departure for Australia. We
Speaker 6: also learned that he would have advised her to leave
Speaker 6: without telling her kids about it, but that she refused
Speaker 6: this condition.
Speaker 2: Thank goodness that Alexandra's mother in law refused this condition
Speaker 2: and made sure her family was informed. We already see
Speaker 2: that this account is entirely in keeping with Rick Bloom's
Speaker 2: manner and his nature. Notice he makes a grand claim
Speaker 2: for himself as a numismatist, which means coin collector, reminiscent
Speaker 2: of other claims he's made, including that he was a
Speaker 2: multi millionaire with a vast property portfolio, including a plantation
Speaker 2: of cedar trees, and that his wife, Diane was an
Speaker 2: heiress to a supermarket tycoon. It makes us wonder what
Speaker 2: other fantastic lies he's peddled on.
Speaker 6: With the statement, we learned that he traveled a lot
Speaker 6: in between Europe and Australia. My mother in law told
Speaker 6: us not to worry, because she could come back often.
Speaker 6: I told her they would be welcome to stay in
Speaker 6: our guest room when they would come. She answered that
Speaker 6: it was unnecessary. Usually Frederic stayed at the Astoria Hotel
Speaker 6: when he came to Prisel's. However, for the time being,
Speaker 6: he had rented a room in the student accommodation of
Speaker 6: ULB since he was staying in Belgium for a long
Speaker 6: period of time. I was quite taken about by the
Speaker 6: contrast between a grand hotel and an uncomfortable student room.
Speaker 6: I found it weird. We all tried to learn how
Speaker 6: she met him, but she remained vague in a answer,
Speaker 6: saying she knew him for a very long time via
Speaker 6: mutual acquaintances. Later on, at the time she lodged a
Speaker 6: complaint against him September two thousand and six, and that
Speaker 6: she only met him a few weeks before she introduced
Speaker 6: him to us via a personal meeting ad that she
Speaker 6: published in a newspaper herself. When we came back from
Speaker 6: our holiday at the end of August, we helped my
Speaker 6: mother in law at your house since she was very
Speaker 6: much decided upon putting it on sale and quickly leave
Speaker 6: for Australia. My partner and myself have packed books in boxes.
Speaker 6: We did this for several consecutive days. During that time.
Speaker 6: We saw Frederick de'rdevari at least twice at my mother
Speaker 6: in law's. He was quite unemotional and distant. We saw
Speaker 6: him burn documents that were his in the chimney. He
Speaker 6: asked just then to do all kinds of medical tests
Speaker 6: before leaving. While I was sorting out some books, I
Speaker 6: witnessed a troubling scene. My mother in law was on
Speaker 6: the phone with a doctor and explained that she wanted
Speaker 6: to do some medical examinations before leaving. Frederic was next
Speaker 6: to her and he was listening to everything she said. Careilly. Certainly,
Speaker 6: he said, ask for an ultra sound of the liver.
Speaker 6: My mother in law is very healthy. Everything seemed weird
Speaker 6: to me. She keeps stalking to the doctor, disregarding the
Speaker 6: remarks of Frederic. Then he shouts insistently request an ultrasound
Speaker 6: of the liver. My mother in law mentioned it to reductor.
Speaker 6: Then Frederick der Duvari's behavior at the specific moment seemed
Speaker 6: abnormal to me. He became aggressive for no apparent reason.
Speaker 6: On another day, the second day, we saw Frederic at
Speaker 6: my mother in law's. While we were emptying the house,
Speaker 6: we learned that certain objects would directly be sent to
Speaker 6: Australia in a still chest that he brought. My mother
Speaker 6: in law wanted to put in some books and photos
Speaker 6: that add significance to her, but he found pretenses to
Speaker 6: choose what would go in the chest himself. Essentially, he
Speaker 6: took all the high value objects that were in the house,
Speaker 6: including a silver cutlery set. He told her in front
Speaker 6: of us that it was to Pete to send books
Speaker 6: all the way to Australia and that it would cost
Speaker 6: her less to repurchase the books once there. He was
Speaker 6: in a hurry to have his chest expedited as soon
Speaker 6: as possible because it was his accountant who was supposed
Speaker 6: to receive it on end, and he wasn't going to
Speaker 6: be able to take the delivery if Frederic didn't send
Speaker 6: the package right now. When sorting out several books, my
Speaker 6: partner found a book about deadly poisons that leave no trace.
Speaker 6: Remembering that Frederic talked about poisons the first time we met,
Speaker 6: he asked him if the book was of any interest
Speaker 6: to him. He sees the book quite aggressively, and we
Speaker 6: were startled at his strong reaction.
Speaker 2: There's that poison reference again. This is something that must
Speaker 2: be investigated, the statement continues.
Speaker 6: During this house decluttering days, my partner insisted Frederic and
Speaker 6: his mum come have dinner at harp Place before they leave.
Speaker 6: Frederic didn't want to because he had too many things
Speaker 6: to do, but my mother in law insisted and said
Speaker 6: she couldn't turn her son down. Frederic ended up agreeing
Speaker 6: and a day was secured for our get together. On
Speaker 6: that day, my mother in law arrived at our place.
Speaker 6: I can't remember the exact date, but it's the day
Speaker 6: she lodged a complain to the police. At the beginning
Speaker 6: of September, we were waiting for Frederic, who was coming
Speaker 6: back from a trip to Amsterdam where he went to
Speaker 6: the Miss Matt Fair. We waited for a long time.
Speaker 6: My mother in law was getting more and more worried.
Speaker 6: She tried to call him, but it didn't answer. She
Speaker 6: told us that she was worried about the fact that
Speaker 6: he had a large sum of cash money on him
Speaker 6: and was scared that he might have been assaulted. I
Speaker 6: accompanied her to the police station, where they told her
Speaker 6: to get to the Tavurun Polly Sprincinct since that's where
Speaker 6: domicile was. It was only a few days after that
Speaker 6: she admitted having been the victim of a swindler who
Speaker 6: disappeared with all of her savings. Since there were duplicate
Speaker 6: keys of our house at my mother in law's, I
Speaker 6: immediately changed the locks for fear that Frederick would break
Speaker 6: into her house. To help my mother in law, I
Speaker 6: tried to get information from the place where he stayed.
Speaker 6: The student accommodation at uelb. They confirmed that he did
Speaker 6: stay there, but they refused to give me more information.
Speaker 6: I also know that the chest was sent by FedEx.
Speaker 6: I tried to know what it was expediated, but they
Speaker 6: refused to give me that information. My mother in law
Speaker 6: learned that Frederick de Davari did several years jail time
Speaker 6: for various cams a number of years after she was
Speaker 6: contacted by the Tourney Police following the complaint of another
Speaker 6: one of Frederic de Adavari's victims. Since then, we haven't
Speaker 6: had any more news on his account until I read
Speaker 6: these articles on the internet about Marion Bart's disappearance.
Speaker 1: The statement is then signed.
Speaker 6: Alexandra Pebum October the tenth.
Speaker 1: So we'll give you a few moments to let all
Speaker 1: of that information sink in. Thank you, Alexander for getting
Speaker 1: in touch, for reporting this to the police, and for
Speaker 1: providing such a detailed account of what happened to your
Speaker 1: family back in two thousand and six. We sincerely hope
Speaker 1: that your mother in law, you and the rest of
Speaker 1: the family are all doing well and that you too
Speaker 1: will get the answers that you deserve.
Speaker 2: There is so much to unpack. We are wondering just
Speaker 2: how big this case is going to get. It feels
Speaker 2: like Marion Barter's story is just the tip of an
Speaker 2: enormous iceberg. How many other women have also gone missing
Speaker 2: after inexplicably upending their lives. We are so grateful to
Speaker 2: Alexandra Pirreboom for getting in touch with us, and it's
Speaker 2: further confirmation of the need for this story to keep
Speaker 2: being shared because there is so much more to uncover.
Speaker 2: A reminder, if you know anything about Marion Barter's disappearance,
Speaker 2: or if you know anything about Rick Bloom or any
Speaker 2: of his aliases, please contact us at the Lady Vanishes
Speaker 2: at seven the word seven dot com dot AU.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go through what Alexandra Piroboom's statement tells us,
Speaker 1: the similarities, the coincidences, and the things that really stand out.
Speaker 1: We'll often refer to Rick Blum as Frederic Dehadevery because
Speaker 1: that was the name he was using when Alexandra Piroboom's
Speaker 1: mother in law met him in two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: but the names are interchangeable. Miss Piroboom describes Frederic de
Speaker 1: Headevery as a coin dealer who frequently traveled between Australia
Speaker 1: and Europe. No surprise is there. Rick Blum and his
Speaker 1: wife Dianda Hedeverary talk about his interesting coins. So did
Speaker 1: two of the women he previously duped in Australia, Janet
Speaker 1: Oldenburg and Jeannette Gaffney Bowen miss Pireboom claimed he suffered
Speaker 1: a limp from injuries he said he'd acquired during his
Speaker 1: time with the Belgian police. Again, that story aligns with
Speaker 1: the evidence we've heard in the inquest from multiple witnesses.
Speaker 1: In the statement, Frederick de Hedevereri is described as telling
Speaker 1: sordid and incredible stories about being a prisoner during the
Speaker 1: Vietnam War, which is absurd given his claim that he
Speaker 1: spent most of the nineteen sixties recuperating from injuries which
Speaker 1: left him a lifelong disability. Pensioner Monique Cornelius, the ex
Speaker 1: wife of the real Fernand Remicel, who was the object
Speaker 1: of Rick Blum's desire in Luxembourg, has also claimed Blum
Speaker 1: was prone to telling improbable stories about himself, about his
Speaker 1: involvement in a war in Asia, and that he was
Speaker 1: a special agent for the British embassy. Miss Cornelius claimed
Speaker 1: that Blum was drawing a picture of himself that wasn't true,
Speaker 1: that did not much the truth of how he lived.
Speaker 1: From reading miss Pireboom's statement, it seems she found the
Speaker 1: same thing when she learned Frederic Deheevereri claimed he usually
Speaker 1: stayed at the historic Astoria Hotel in Brussels, but actually
Speaker 1: was lodging in student accommodation. If you recall, this is
Speaker 1: what she said in her statement.
Speaker 6: I was quite taken about by the contrast between a
Speaker 6: grand hotel and an uncomfortable student room. I found it weird.
Speaker 1: Interestingly, a quick Google search reveals that the Astoria Hotel
Speaker 1: in Brussels lay vacant for ten years from two thousand
Speaker 1: and six.
Speaker 2: Now to the modus operandi number one finding women through
Speaker 2: lonely hearts ads, Alexandra Piraboom says her mother in law
Speaker 2: Gulaine Dubois de Lois, met Frederic de Hedeveri in two
Speaker 2: thousand and six through a personal ad she published in Belgium.
Speaker 2: The Similarities. Rick Bloom claims he reconnected with Marion Barter
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety seven through a personal ad. Bloom admits
Speaker 2: publishing his own Lonely Hearts ad in the French Australian
Speaker 2: newspaper The Courier Australia in nineteen ninety four, using the
Speaker 2: alias Fernandremichel and Sidney Woman. Jeannette Gaffney Bowen also says
Speaker 2: she met Frederic de Hedeveri via a personal ad in
Speaker 2: the late nineteen nineties.
Speaker 1: Two the promise of a new life in another country.
Speaker 1: According to Miss Piraboom, her mother in law had a
Speaker 1: well winged romance and suddenly decided to sell her house
Speaker 1: and car with plans to marry Frederic de Hedeveri and
Speaker 1: move to Australia. She was not to tell her children
Speaker 1: of these plans, but she refused the similarities. Jeanette Gaffney
Speaker 1: Bowen says Frederick de Herdiverari wanted her to sell her
Speaker 1: Sydney home and claimed he would buy a property in
Speaker 1: Paris for her. Janet Oldenburg says she was urged to
Speaker 1: sell her home and sign over power of attorney to
Speaker 1: her affairs. She was promised a new life in the
Speaker 1: French Riviera. Monique Cornelius says the man she knew told
Speaker 1: her he wanted to take her away on a long
Speaker 1: sailing trip, just the two of them. Rick Blum admits
Speaker 1: having a relationship with Marian in the months before she
Speaker 1: unexpectedly announced she's taking a trip to Europe for an
Speaker 1: indefinite period, suddenly quitting her job and selling her house
Speaker 1: and car. She does not tell her family or friends
Speaker 1: of her relationship with Blum and has secretly changed her
Speaker 1: name to Florabella Remkeel. At the same time, Blum has
Speaker 1: a driver's license in the name for nand Remicel. On
Speaker 1: a passenger card, her occupation is listed as housewife from Luxembourg.
Speaker 2: Number three. The Valuables go Missing. Miss Pireboum claims that
Speaker 2: her mother in law became worried about Frederick to Headeverary
Speaker 2: when he didn't show up at a planned dinner event
Speaker 2: because he had a large sum of cash on him.
Speaker 2: She later admitted she'd been scammed of her life savings.
Speaker 2: Miss Pireboum also became concerned when she was helping her
Speaker 2: mother in law pack up her house. She said to
Speaker 2: Headevary had provided a trunk to put things in to
Speaker 2: send directly to Australia, and he was dictating that only
Speaker 2: items of value, including a silver cutlery set, were to
Speaker 2: be put in there. The similarities when Marion Barter packed
Speaker 2: up her home. Some of her property was stored with
Speaker 2: family and friends. However, her collection of valuable antiques and
Speaker 2: paintings have never been found in evidence. Rick Bloom admits
Speaker 2: he stored some of Marian's belongings for a short time. Also,
Speaker 2: large sums of money were drained from Marion's bank account
Speaker 2: on a daily basis in the weeks after her passport
Speaker 2: returned to Australia in nineteen ninety seven. Jeanette Gaffney Bowen
Speaker 2: says she trusted Frederick to Hedevery with her credit card
Speaker 2: to start a business, and thirty thousand dollars was taken
Speaker 2: from her account. She says he bought wine over but
Speaker 2: he didn't drink it. He made her a special meal
Speaker 2: and she felt she'd been drugged. He then took nude
Speaker 2: photos of her and threatened to show them around if
Speaker 2: she didn't provide him with money. Also, she claims a
Speaker 2: gold nugget, jewelry, and silver coins went missing from her
Speaker 2: home while the headiverary was staying there. Rick Bloom denies
Speaker 2: all of these allegations. Janet Oldenburg says the man she
Speaker 2: knew as rich Richard or Rick West, advised her to
Speaker 2: make him power of attorney in her affairs, which she did.
Speaker 2: When the pair was traveling in Europe, he carried the
Speaker 2: title deeds to her home and the power of attorney
Speaker 2: documents in his luggage. He also had them when he
Speaker 2: left her in England and traveled back to Australia without her.
Speaker 2: Also before their trip, he convinced Janet Oldenburg to put
Speaker 2: her valuables into a tube, which he buried in her backyard.
Speaker 2: When she returned home independently, the tube was missing. Rick
Speaker 2: Bloom claims he never had the documents and that he
Speaker 2: returned the jewelry to Janet Oldenburg.
Speaker 1: As you can see, there are striking and undeniable similarities
Speaker 1: between the cases, demonstrating a pattern of behavior stretching over
Speaker 1: forty years. There are also some other things that really
Speaker 1: stand out. Let's start with the poison. In her statement,
Speaker 1: Miss Piriboom says Frederick Deheevari spoke about his knowledge of
Speaker 1: poisons at the family dinner when they first met. Weeks later,
Speaker 1: when shown a book about poisons that don't leave a trace,
Speaker 1: he appeared very interested and took possession of it. The
Speaker 1: incident stood out in Miss Pireboom's memory as odd. Now
Speaker 1: we've not heard about an interest in poisons previously. However,
Speaker 1: it is definitely something that should be investigated further. Has
Speaker 1: this man mentioned a knowledge of poisons to his friends, family,
Speaker 1: or the other women who have made his acquaintance. What
Speaker 1: does he know about different types of poison? Does he
Speaker 1: know what different poisons can do to humans? Does he
Speaker 1: keep any poisons on his property now or did he
Speaker 1: in the past? If so, what does he own any
Speaker 1: books and poisons? Has he done any research on his
Speaker 1: computer about poisons? Is he known to poison vermin on
Speaker 1: his property? If so, how does he dispose of the carcasses?
Speaker 1: All of these questions need to be answered.
Speaker 2: Next, why did mister Dehnivery demand that Miss Peterburn's mother
Speaker 2: in law ask about her having a liver scan? Miss
Speaker 2: Piterburm outlined in her statement a bizarre and rude interaction
Speaker 2: she overheard while her mother in law was on the
Speaker 2: phone to her doctor. These are her words again.
Speaker 6: Suddenly he said, ask for an ultra sound of the liver.
Speaker 6: My mother in law is very healthy. Everything seemed weird
Speaker 6: to me. She keeps stocking to the doctor, disregarding the
Speaker 6: remarks of Frederick. Then he shouts insistently request an ultrasound
Speaker 6: of the liver.
Speaker 2: When one is traveling overseas, it's not uncommon to seek
Speaker 2: medical advice, to get some extra scripts for medication and
Speaker 2: check that your vaccinations are up to date, etc. But
Speaker 2: it seems very strange to actively seek a liver's scan
Speaker 2: before traveling to Australia, which is a developed country with
Speaker 2: an excellent health system, especially if you're healthy and not
Speaker 2: showing any signs of liver disorder. There are some questions
Speaker 2: that need to be asked. Was mister de Hedevereri purely
Speaker 2: trying to assert his dominance by telling Miss Pereboom's mother
Speaker 2: in law what to do? Or was he trying to
Speaker 2: prove his intellectual prowess by claiming knowledge about medical procedures,
Speaker 2: Or was there a reason he wanted to know about
Speaker 2: the condition of his new love interests liver and is
Speaker 2: this somehow linked to his apparent knowledge of poisons. We
Speaker 2: can also tell you that Marion Barter, according to her
Speaker 2: medical records kept by Sally and researched by the super Sleuths,
Speaker 2: also had a liver scan before she went overseas. You
Speaker 2: might recall in episode eighteen, we revealed that on May seven,
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven, just over a month before she left
Speaker 2: to go overseas, Marian had two blood tests at the
Speaker 2: Queensland Medical Laboratory Pathology Centre. One was a liver function
Speaker 2: test where six or more elements were requested. Marian and
Speaker 2: Julane both had liver tests before their trips, and Rick
Speaker 2: Bloom or Frederic was allegedly interested in poisons. One poison,
Speaker 2: arsenic has no color, taste or smell and can kill
Speaker 2: within hours or days. It can only be detected in
Speaker 2: urine twenty four to forty eight hours after being ingested.
Speaker 2: It was one of Agatha Christie's favorite methods of murder.
Speaker 2: According to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry,
Speaker 2: arsenic undergoes biomethylation in the liver. It is how humans
Speaker 2: process and detoxify arsenic from the body. Then approximately seventy
Speaker 2: percent is excreted through urine.
Speaker 1: Thirdly, Miss Piroboom says mister D'HIVERI burns some personal documents
Speaker 1: in the fireplace. It would be good to know what
Speaker 1: these were. Also, the statement mentions that Frederick de HEADEVERI
Speaker 1: wants the trunk containing his new partner's possessions to be
Speaker 1: shipped to Australia as soon as possible. Again, here's the
Speaker 1: direct translation of Miss Piroboom's words.
Speaker 6: He was in a hurry to have his chest expedited
Speaker 6: as soon as possible because it was his accountant who
Speaker 6: was supposed to receive it on hand, and he wasn't
Speaker 6: going to be able to take the delivery if Frederic
Speaker 6: didn't send the package right now.
Speaker 1: Who is this accountant, where does he live and what
Speaker 1: does he know about mister de Headavari's shipments? Also does
Speaker 1: FedEx still retain records regarding this delivery.
Speaker 2: Finally, something needs to be said about Miss Piroboom's recollection
Speaker 2: of Frederic de Heeadiverari's demeanor. She was only in his
Speaker 2: company on a few occasions once she found him, and
Speaker 2: I quote extremely dangerous from the first moment I met him.
Speaker 2: She remembers him as cold and distant and detached from
Speaker 2: the obvious excitement Misspirebum's mother in law displayed. Miss Pirebeum
Speaker 2: noted his belittling tone when he told her mother in
Speaker 2: law what to put in the trunk to send to Australia,
Speaker 2: admonishing her in front of everyone, saying it was stupid
Speaker 2: to send books there. Miss Piriboom also became weary when
Speaker 2: Frederick to Herdeveri's temper suddenly flared, and he shouted at
Speaker 2: her mother in law when she was on the phone
Speaker 2: to her doctor, demanding she request a scan of the liver.
Speaker 2: Miss Pirebeam said she found the behavior completely abnormal and
Speaker 2: that he became aggressive for no apparent reason. Another of
Speaker 2: Frederic Dehadiveri's former female acquaintances as also previously spoken of
Speaker 2: his temper back in episode twenty eight. This is what
Speaker 2: Jeanette Gaffney Bowen had to say.
Speaker 4: A blackmail doun threatened me. It wanted me to do
Speaker 4: what he wanted me to do, like sailing my house
Speaker 4: for the money.
Speaker 1: Miss Gatney Bowen said, mister dehada Erry threatened to put
Speaker 1: garbage all over the garden and have her childcare business
Speaker 1: closed down, so she contacted the Belgian consulate to report him,
Speaker 1: and then she called the police.
Speaker 7: What was in your mind after he took the photos?
Speaker 7: What was he seeking from you?
Speaker 4: Money? That's all he was he has been after all along.
Speaker 4: I got scared. I was becoming very scared, so I
Speaker 4: contacted the police.
Speaker 1: She sought an apprehended domestic personal violence order in December
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, amid suggestions he threatened to get Miss
Speaker 1: Gatney Bowen's family in Australia and overseas. After that, she
Speaker 1: said she didn't hear from mister de Headaveri again. However,
Speaker 1: the court was told that around this time there was
Speaker 1: an anonymous complaint to the Department of Community Services about
Speaker 1: Miss Gaffney Bowen's home based childcare service. It mentioned certain
Speaker 1: aspects of our house that only a few people knew,
Speaker 1: and mister D'hadaveri was one of them.
Speaker 2: We're not quite sure how or if this statement will
Speaker 2: be incorporated into the evidence that's been gathered for the
Speaker 2: inquest into the disappearance of Marion Barter. Given that there
Speaker 2: are only a few weeks until a decision is due
Speaker 2: to be handed down, I contacted Rick Bloom by phone
Speaker 2: to put these allegations to him and to give him
Speaker 2: the right of reply.
Speaker 3: Really, Hello, Ricketts.
Speaker 8: Brian Seymour at The Lady Vanish's podcast, I'm recording this conversation.
Speaker 8: I'm calling to ask about Alexandra Pirebum and her mother
Speaker 8: in law, Julane. They claim you stole money and valuables
Speaker 8: from them in two thousand and six, and I'm offering
Speaker 8: you the chance to respond.
Speaker 2: Not to worry.
Speaker 3: When did you meet and how did you meet Julane?
Speaker 9: Just please don't worry about thanks.
Speaker 3: No, I have to worry about it because they claim
Speaker 3: you've still in money and valuables and you're regreative and threatening.
Speaker 3: Oh Jesus, yes, yes, How much did you take from them? Rick?
Speaker 3: And I never took anything. Just did you ask her
Speaker 3: to start a new life with you in Australia? And
Speaker 3: what else? What else?
Speaker 6: Just leave me alone?
Speaker 3: No, No, I can't do that because more and more
Speaker 3: women are coming forward. How many women have you? Rick? Rick?
Speaker 3: All right? Rick has hung up? All right.
Speaker 1: Now we return to the final submissions delivered to the
Speaker 1: State Coroner in late October. Last episode, we focused on
Speaker 1: the new evidence of former bank manager Joan Hazlitt and
Speaker 1: the submission of counsel assisting the coroner, Adam Casselton. We
Speaker 1: have more now from to custodon on the finding Sally
Speaker 1: Layden and her family are seeking from the court in
Speaker 1: regards to the police investigation.
Speaker 7: The family seek eleven specific findings in regard to the
Speaker 7: police investigation into Marian's disappearance. One a finding that Graham
Speaker 7: Child should not have classified Sally's report as an occurrence
Speaker 7: only event. We support that finding, your honor. Two a
Speaker 7: finding that Graham Chiles was unaware of the definition of
Speaker 7: a missing person in the Commissioner's Instruction Number thirty nine.
Speaker 7: We support that contention, Your honor. Three A finding that
Speaker 7: it was unsatisfactory and inappropriate that Graham Chiles did not
Speaker 7: reclassify the event from an occurrence only to an act
Speaker 7: of investigation. We support that, your honor. Four A finding
Speaker 7: that Senior Constable Michael Pearce should not have verified Graham
Speaker 7: Child's classification of the event as an occurrence only, Your honor,
Speaker 7: We did not support that submission, primarily for this reason,
Speaker 7: Your honor. Senior Constable Peers was not called as a
Speaker 7: whitess and those matters were not put to him. Five
Speaker 7: A finding that due to these failures in the first
Speaker 7: reporting of Marian's disappearance, Marian's case was not investigated or
Speaker 7: listed as a missing person until two thousand and seven,
Speaker 7: and the failure to open any investigation into Marian's disappearance
Speaker 7: in nineteen ninety seven has led to the unavailability of
Speaker 7: crucial evidence surrounding the circumstances of Marian's disappearance, Your Honor,
Speaker 7: That proposed finding is supported. Six A finding that Marian
Speaker 7: was listed as a missing person for the first time
Speaker 7: on the sixth of July two thousand and seven by
Speaker 7: Senior Constable Joanne Williams as a result of being contacted
Speaker 7: by Rebecca Cotts of the Australian Federal Police. We support
Speaker 7: that contention, Your honor. Seven A finding that Detective Senior
Speaker 7: Constable Shean's decision to recommend that Marian be removed from
Speaker 7: the missing person's register was incorrect and should not have occurred.
Speaker 7: We support that proposed finding. Eight A finding that Detective
Speaker 7: Senior Constable Shean did not identify the healthcare provided when
Speaker 7: Marian's Medicare card had been used on the thirteenth of
Speaker 7: August nineteen ninety seven in a timely manner. We do
Speaker 7: not support that proposed finding because there is simply not
Speaker 7: enough evidence before Your Honor. Nine A finding that Detective
Speaker 7: Senior Constable Shan did not sufficiently investigate the name remarkable
Speaker 7: after discovering that in twenty eleven Marian had changed her name,
Speaker 7: Your Honor, we do not support that proposed finding again
Speaker 7: because there is simply not enough evidence. Ten A finding
Speaker 7: that the only reason why the New South Wales police
Speaker 7: investigation was reopened in twenty nineteen was because of media
Speaker 7: interests in the case, we do not support that proposed finding. Eleven,
Speaker 7: A finding the Detective Senior Constable Shean did not sufficiently
Speaker 7: investigate the advertisement in the Curia Australian in which he
Speaker 7: became aware in May twenty nineteen, Your Honor, we do
Speaker 7: not support that proposed finding again because there is not
Speaker 7: enough evidence in our submission before Your Honor to find
Speaker 7: there would have been any material difference in the invent instigation,
Speaker 7: and also because this issue was not addressed with Detector
Speaker 7: Shan in his evidence.
Speaker 1: So of the eleventh findings that Sally Leyden and her
Speaker 1: family is seeking based on the evidence, the Council assisting
Speaker 1: the Coroner supports six.
Speaker 2: It is baffling that mister Coulston does not think the media,
Speaker 2: namely this podcast, led to the police investigation into Marion's
Speaker 2: disappearance being reopened. Perhaps he's forgotten that Marian wasn't even
Speaker 2: listed as missing when we started, and that Detective she
Speaker 2: And told us straight out Marian chose to leave on
Speaker 2: her own. It is a simple fact that Sally Laden
Speaker 2: and Alison Sandy are the ones responsible for all of
Speaker 2: this happening, including the police investigation and the coronial in quest.
Speaker 2: In his submissions, Sally Layden's lawyer Bradley Smith argued the
Speaker 2: need for the coroner to recommend that Rick Bloom be
Speaker 2: charged with perjury. As you can probably recall, mister Bloom's
Speaker 2: evidence was full of holes, contradictions, exaggerations and lies.
Speaker 5: Section fifty nine of the Act expressly gives the court
Speaker 5: power to require persons to give evidence on oath and
Speaker 5: to receive evidence on oath. And we say that it
Speaker 5: must be implied from that express power that the Court
Speaker 5: has such power to take steps to remedy or ensure
Speaker 5: there are any consequences for any abuse of that power,
Speaker 5: in the sense of witnesses being required to give evidence
Speaker 5: on oath, who then give false evidence. And we say
Speaker 5: otherwise a mockery could be made of the Court's power.
Speaker 2: And therefore mister Smith seeks.
Speaker 5: Consequences for false evidence being given.
Speaker 2: He honed in on the fact that mister Bloom used
Speaker 2: passports and driver's licenses in names that were not his
Speaker 2: legal name.
Speaker 5: Not only was Rick Blum, we say, and counsel assisting
Speaker 5: accepted masquerading under a fake name using a Queensland driver's
Speaker 5: license fraudulently obtained, but we say additionally he was masquerading
Speaker 5: under a false passport. And if it is sufficiently relevant
Speaker 5: your honor to make a finding about the driver's license,
Speaker 5: we say, the passport is in a similar cap and
Speaker 5: we'll invite your honor to make that finding.
Speaker 2: Counsel assisting Tracy Stevens later clarified that it wasn't a
Speaker 2: false passport, but a passport that was not in mister
Speaker 2: Bloom's legal name.
Speaker 10: The facts are clear he did travel on a passport
Speaker 10: which was not in his legal name at the time,
Speaker 10: and he had also done so on other occasions not
Speaker 10: related to those as when he traveled at the same
Speaker 10: time as Marion Barter.
Speaker 2: Mister Smith indicated that mister Bloom was instrumental in Marian's
Speaker 2: decision to quit her job and sell her house.
Speaker 5: The obvious and compelling inference being that mister Blum, representing
Speaker 5: himself to Marian as Fernand knocklus Remarkle is the explanation
Speaker 5: for why Marian changed her name to Flora Belle Natalia
Speaker 5: Marian remarkle, and we support you in making finding to
Speaker 5: that effect. Your honor knows that that happened in the
Speaker 5: very same time period, a couple of months before she
Speaker 5: went overseas, and your honor knows that Marian's selling her
Speaker 5: house and resigning for her employment also happened in the
Speaker 5: same period of time that mister Blum first became acquainted
Speaker 5: with Marian in nineteen ninety seven, in February or at
Speaker 5: the latest, very early March. Now, some of the debate
Speaker 5: may be on the meaning of a causative role. Now
Speaker 5: we don't suggest, we're not asking you on a defined
Speaker 5: that it was the main cause or the only cause
Speaker 5: of Marian resigning her employment and selling a house, but
Speaker 5: we're asking you to refine that it was a cause.
Speaker 5: There was evidence, certainly from Sally and Chris, that that
Speaker 5: sale felt very rushed, and also that the intention to
Speaker 5: sell her house wasn't disclosed prior to February of nineteen
Speaker 5: ninety seven. It wasn't disclosed to her family at Christmas
Speaker 5: of nineteen ninety six, for example, we say it's very improbable,
Speaker 5: most unlikely that her decision to sell her house and
Speaker 5: resign for her employment were unconnected to her involvement with
Speaker 5: mister Blum at that time, And of course it should
Speaker 5: be borne in mind that the nature of mister Blum's
Speaker 5: involvement with Marian at this time is that he was
Speaker 5: suggesting to her that they should travel overseas, potentially with
Speaker 5: the prospect of starting a new life. And so all
Speaker 5: these drastic life decisions on selling the house at a loss,
Speaker 5: resigning from employment, changing name, all feed into that narrative,
Speaker 5: and all feed into mister Blum being at least a
Speaker 5: causative role, if not the sole or primary cause.
Speaker 1: Mister Smith asserts that mister Blum was with Marion Barter
Speaker 1: during her trip to England, particularly given his familiarity with
Speaker 1: southern England, an area where he once lived. He also
Speaker 1: claimed that mister Blum would likely have had contact with
Speaker 1: Marion upon her return to Australia in August nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 5: Of course, the evidence is somewhat unclear about exactly what
Speaker 5: Marian was doing and where she was living at the time,
Speaker 5: but we say your honor taking everything together. Mister Blum
Speaker 5: and Marian re entered Australia within two days of each other.
Speaker 5: Marian indicated on her incoming passenger card that she was
Speaker 5: married and that she was a resident of Luxembourg. Your
Speaker 5: honor knows that only two years later mister Blum went
Speaker 5: to the UK with Janet Oldenburg on a trip which
Speaker 5: had many similar characteristics to what the evidence bears out
Speaker 5: about Marion's trip to the UK, and your honor knows
Speaker 5: that when Janet Oldenburg returned to Australia separately from mister Blum,
Speaker 5: there was further contact between them after that time, and
Speaker 5: it was not a short leap to find, on the
Speaker 5: balance of probabilities that mister Blum did have contact with
Speaker 5: Marian after she returned to Australia.
Speaker 1: Mister Smith highlighted the significance of mister Blum purchasing a
Speaker 1: car two days before Marion Barter's Medicare card was used
Speaker 1: as an optometrist in Grafton, a car that was sold
Speaker 1: only months later. We also made some very good points
Speaker 1: about why so many withdrawals from Marion's bank accounts had
Speaker 1: taken place at Byron Bay.
Speaker 5: It is difficult to rationalize why Marian came back having
Speaker 5: had her life on the Gold Coast and apart from
Speaker 5: two bank withdrawals at Burly Heads. There's no evidence that
Speaker 5: she went near the Gold Coast. All the evidence suggests
Speaker 5: that she was in the Byron Bay, Grafton Northern Rivers
Speaker 5: region of New South Wales, precisely where mister Blum was
Speaker 5: living at that time, and we think that's particularly significant
Speaker 5: when one bears in mind the absence of any particular
Speaker 5: connection between Marion and Byron Bay, and the very close
Speaker 5: temporal relationship between Marion and what we know about what
Speaker 5: Marian was doing at the time and what mister Blum
Speaker 5: was doing at the time.
Speaker 2: It should be.
Speaker 5: Noted that Marian had no particular connection to Byron Bay,
Speaker 5: or there is no evidence that she did. There was
Speaker 5: some evidence that she occasionally went shopping there from one
Speaker 5: of her friends, and Sally gave evidence that Marian did
Speaker 5: not regular traveled to Byron Bay before she left.
Speaker 1: Mister Smith also claimed that mister Blum was likely involved
Speaker 1: in the withdrawal of eighty thousand dollars from Marion Barter's
Speaker 1: bank account on October fifteen, nineteen ninety seven, that's just
Speaker 1: a week before Sally went to Byron Bay searching for
Speaker 1: her mother on October twenty second, and reported the matter
Speaker 1: to police.
Speaker 5: Sally found out that money had been withdrawn from her
Speaker 5: mother's account very very proximate to the time at which
Speaker 5: it occurred, i e. The twenty second of October, which
Speaker 5: is a week after the large transaction on the fifteenth
Speaker 5: of October nineteen ninety seven, she went to police. Now,
Speaker 5: of course, there's every reason to think that if an
Speaker 5: investigation had been opened at the time, and if it
Speaker 5: had been a proper investigation, then there's every reason to
Speaker 5: think that the documents would have been available. Marian's bank records.
Speaker 2: Would have been available.
Speaker 5: The person who saw her, if someone did see her
Speaker 5: at the bank, would have been there, could have been interviewed,
Speaker 5: would have had a recollection of what happened. It is
Speaker 5: very possible and indeed likely, if an investigation had been
Speaker 5: open at that time, that Marian would have been located,
Speaker 5: or that Sally would have found out more about what
Speaker 5: happened to her mother than she knows sitting here twenty
Speaker 5: five years later. On the second matter, mister Blum's involvement
Speaker 5: in the large withdrawal or transfer of funds on the
Speaker 5: fifteenth of October nineteen ninety seven, we accept there is
Speaker 5: no direct evidence of his involvement. But of course that
Speaker 5: is true of many things. In this inquest given we
Speaker 5: are talking about events that happened twenty five years ago,
Speaker 5: and as we submit, that were not properly investigated at
Speaker 5: the time, leading to the loss of relevant documentary evidence.
Speaker 5: But in this regard, when we speak of involvement, that ranges,
Speaker 5: as I've said, from persuading Marian to withdraw or transfer
Speaker 5: the money to start a new life overseas, if you
Speaker 5: want to accept that that is most likely what the
Speaker 5: nature of the real relationship was between Marian and mister
Speaker 5: Blum at this time. That range is then to mister
Speaker 5: Blum requiring or otherwise forcing Marian to withdraw that money,
Speaker 5: or it ranges to a fraudulent transaction where that money
Speaker 5: was obtained by deception. And your honor of course heard
Speaker 5: the evidence of mister Blum's history of fraud, and in
Speaker 5: particular part of that history includes specific convictions for opening
Speaker 5: bank accounts and using checks in fake names. Now, it's
Speaker 5: certainly not in every case where you have a large
Speaker 5: transaction with scant or limited evidence about its nature.
Speaker 1: Mister Smith takes aim at the New South Wales Police
Speaker 1: for the way they handled the matter, and also the
Speaker 1: Queensland Police, which briefly looked into the case. Both authorities
Speaker 1: came to the conclusion that Marian had chosen to intentionally disappear,
Speaker 1: even though neither had actually spoken to her in person
Speaker 1: or cited her.
Speaker 5: All that can be said is that between when she
Speaker 5: came back into the country on the second of August
Speaker 5: and when the large sum of money was withdrawn on
Speaker 5: the fifteenth of October, we, of course except that Marian
Speaker 5: did not contact any of her family or friends, and
Speaker 5: that one can only infer that that was a conscious
Speaker 5: act on her part. But certainly beyond that we embraced
Speaker 5: the position that the court simply can't say what happened
Speaker 5: to Marian after the fifteenth of October nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 5: other than to unfortunately conclude that the family accepts that
Speaker 5: a finding that Marian is deceased is appropriate. A number
Speaker 5: of witnesses gave oral evidence or written evidence that it
Speaker 5: was very out of character for Marian to disappear entirely
Speaker 5: and severtize with her family. And secondly, Your Honor would
Speaker 5: have to regard in our submission for the evidence that
Speaker 5: Marian remained in contact with her family and friends whilst overseas,
Speaker 5: and in the case of her sister Deirdre, went to
Speaker 5: great lengths to ensure that she received a birthday present
Speaker 5: well ahead of time. Now, of course, Marian was doing
Speaker 5: all of those things whilst having left the country under
Speaker 5: a new name, without having disclosed that new name. But
Speaker 5: the fact remains that she was writing to friends and
Speaker 5: family under the name Marion Barter, and that she called
Speaker 5: Sally one or two days before she came back into
Speaker 5: the country. So there is a consistent course of conduct
Speaker 5: during the time she was away of contacting friends and family,
Speaker 5: and you want to have all that in mind when
Speaker 5: your honor is considering what findings can be made about
Speaker 5: Marion's disappearance being intentional after her return to Australia on
Speaker 5: the second of August nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 2: The inadequacies of the police, whose duty it was to
Speaker 2: properly investigate Marion's disappearance are well documented right from the
Speaker 2: time Sally walked into the Byron Bay Police station in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven. Yet the barrister representing New South Wales Police,
Speaker 2: Kim Burke, denied any criticism of any of the offices involved.
Speaker 11: The evidence regarding seeing your Constable Child's action and recording
Speaker 11: the incident as an occur It's only needs to be
Speaker 11: viewed in the context of one his experience, what it
Speaker 11: was that he knew and what it was that he
Speaker 11: was told, and in the context of the amount of
Speaker 11: training he had with respect to a person reported missing.
Speaker 11: His evidence was that he was not aware of the
Speaker 11: Commissioner's instructions one three nine, and his evidence was that
Speaker 11: he believed the only training he had was in nineteen
Speaker 11: seventy seven. It also needs to be viewed in the
Speaker 11: context that he had never dealt with a missing person's
Speaker 11: case before as well.
Speaker 2: Miss Burke's next point is upsetting. She actually tells the
Speaker 2: coroner that the police investigation wasn't treated as a priority
Speaker 2: because of the way Marian Barter's daughter, Sally Leyden reported it.
Speaker 11: Yes, seriously, the impression formed by former Senior Constable Childs
Speaker 11: was that Sally was not reporting the mother missing. Rather,
Speaker 11: it was more in relation to the transactions. He didn't
Speaker 11: get a sense of urgency, and it was more along
Speaker 11: the lines that Sally wanted some information being recorded. In
Speaker 11: Sally's evidence, she said she assumed that she'd be reported missing,
Speaker 11: but she didn't ask for her to be reported missing.
Speaker 11: Former Senior Constable Childs used the words concern for safety.
Speaker 11: He said it was poorly worded and at the time,
Speaker 11: because of the information he had, he felt it should
Speaker 11: be recorded as an occurrence only. He said, had there
Speaker 11: been concerned for her safety and well being, he would
Speaker 11: have had no hesitation in recording it as a missing person.
Speaker 11: The Cops event itself states that the next of kin
Speaker 11: are concerned the mother had returned to the country and
Speaker 11: had not contacted her. There's no reference in the police
Speaker 11: notebook or in the Cops entry that Sally's concern for
Speaker 11: the welfare was predicated upon her mother's failure to contact
Speaker 11: her brother for his birthday on the eighteenth of October.
Speaker 11: It is my submission that that in itself not appearing
Speaker 11: in those documents is also indicative that there was not
Speaker 11: the concern of welfare and safety being conveyed by Sally
Speaker 11: to former Senior Constable Childs. There was nothing recorded in
Speaker 11: the police notebook that a photo of Marian was taken.
Speaker 2: Not content with blaming Sally for the police not taking
Speaker 2: her seriously, Miss Burke then questions Sally's memory.
Speaker 11: Sally's evidence in terms of various issues with respect to
Speaker 11: her memory show the fragility of her memory, and I'm
Speaker 11: not criticizing her for that, but my point, in relation
Speaker 11: to accepting the evidence from Sally that she in fact
Speaker 11: got a phone call from New South Wales Police from
Speaker 11: the barn Bay Police station unsupported by any objective evidence.
Speaker 11: In my submission, your honor does not meet the desired
Speaker 11: probability standard.
Speaker 2: Remember, Sally was watching on as Miss Burg piled all
Speaker 2: of the failings of the police into her lap. She
Speaker 2: kept going, suggesting police were of the belief that Sally
Speaker 2: wanted to know why her mother decided to estrange herself,
Speaker 2: not that there were concerns for her well being.
Speaker 11: It's apparent from the evidence given by Detective Senior Constable
Speaker 11: Shean that he understood that Sally understood that her mother
Speaker 11: had estranged herself from the family, that she wanted to
Speaker 11: know why. And one can understand that as the daughter,
Speaker 11: you'd want to know why your mother would ever do
Speaker 11: that to you. That is different to understanding in terms
Speaker 11: of reporting somebody missing and concern for safety and welfare.
Speaker 11: New South Wales Police don't investigate the reasons why. That's
Speaker 11: a personal matter that needs to be done elsewhere, not
Speaker 11: by the New South Wales Police.
Speaker 2: That is a strange statement. When police investigate crimes, they
Speaker 2: are required to investigate the why as much as the what.
Speaker 2: It is difficult to get a murder conviction without a motive. Next,
Speaker 2: Miss Burke claims that when Detective Gary Sheen was put
Speaker 2: on the case years after Marion disappeared and was finally
Speaker 2: classified as missing, he was under resourced.
Speaker 11: In relation to detective Senior Constables she and your honor.
Speaker 11: His evidence needs to be viewed in the context of
Speaker 11: taking over an investigation that was opened by the Missing
Speaker 11: Persons Unit in two thousand and seven. His evidence also
Speaker 11: needs to be viewed in the context that he was
Speaker 11: not part of a strike force. He didn't have the
Speaker 11: degree of resources available to the very dedicated investigating offices
Speaker 11: in this particular inquest. He second guessed himself on two occasions,
Speaker 11: and as for the file to be reviewed by the
Speaker 11: Crime Squad Commander and Byron, he was told his investigation
Speaker 11: was appropriately done. He also asked for it to be
Speaker 11: overseen and reviewed by the Homicide Squad and that was
Speaker 11: in July twenty nineteen, and again the investigation was approved.
Speaker 11: As identified by Detective Inspector Brown, proper procedure was followed
Speaker 11: in terms of having his recommendations or report which is
Speaker 11: contained in his statement reviewed by the manager of the
Speaker 11: then Missing Persons Unit with New South Wales Police. That
Speaker 11: manager signed off on the recommendation that Marian b removed
Speaker 11: as a missing person. Now that's an important piece of
Speaker 11: crucial information in terms of any consideration of criticizing Detective
Speaker 11: Senior Constable Sheean, because he didn't go off on a
Speaker 11: frolic by himself. He actually made sure he went through
Speaker 11: the proper chain of command. Detective Inspector Brown, with his
Speaker 11: degree of expertise, did criticize saying she should not have
Speaker 11: been taken off the missing person's list, but having said that,
Speaker 11: it was approved by the then manager of the Missing
Speaker 11: Persons unit.
Speaker 2: Again, the only reason Marian was put on the missing
Speaker 2: person's list and a new police investigation launched is because
Speaker 2: Sally met Allison and they recruited the team for this podcast.
Speaker 2: It's a shame Miss Burke wasn't there when I interviewed
Speaker 2: Detective Senior Constable Gary Shehan in twenty nineteen, because she
Speaker 2: would have heard him tell me that he felt sorry
Speaker 2: for Sally because it was obvious her mother had definitely
Speaker 2: decided on her own to dump her family and start
Speaker 2: a new life. He never mentioned being underresourced to me.
Speaker 2: In fact, he said he had done everything possible, which
Speaker 2: he claimed supported his theory that Marian had simply disappeared
Speaker 2: by choice. Counsel assisting the coroner, Tracy Stevens, concluded the
Speaker 2: submissions with this very strongly worded criticism miss Burke's argument
Speaker 2: that the New South Wales Police did nothing wrong at all.
Speaker 10: I have some comments by way of replying to the
Speaker 10: approach taken by New South Wales Police. There should be,
Speaker 10: in our view, your honor, no criticism of Sally's actions
Speaker 10: at the time in nineteen ninety seven, or in two
Speaker 10: thousand and seven or any time thereafter. There should be
Speaker 10: no suggestion that she has in any way delayed the
Speaker 10: investigation by New South Wales Police, or behaved in a
Speaker 10: manner that, in our submission, can be described as nothing
Speaker 10: less than totally understandable and consistent with a daughter very
Speaker 10: confused and anxious at finding out about her mother's circumstances
Speaker 10: at that time. I do feel compelled to say that
Speaker 10: it is unfortunate that there has been this resistance to
Speaker 10: accepting the inadequacies of the police investigation, which are clear
Speaker 10: on the face of the documentary records from nineteen ninety
Speaker 10: seven and the year's following. There has, from our understanding,
Speaker 10: Your Honor, been an attempt by U South Wales Police
Speaker 10: to perhaps try and reconcile the actions taken by Officer
Speaker 10: Childs and Officer Shean with the approach that's been commented
Speaker 10: upon by Detective Inspector Brown. From my reading of the
Speaker 10: evidence you're on a Detective Brown does not give his
Speaker 10: opinion in any way in hindsight or from above or
Speaker 10: from a different perspective that is somehow less relevant to
Speaker 10: an officer who was on the ground. Detective Brown gave
Speaker 10: very clear and useful evidence to the court about what
Speaker 10: he expected should have happened in nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 1: Miss Stevens also said that Sally Layden and her counsel
Speaker 1: should not be curtailed from making submissions in regards to
Speaker 1: the conduct of the police investigation. Unfortunately, it's too late
Speaker 1: to include Alexandra and Glayne's testimony for consideration by the coroner,
Speaker 1: as the evidence component of the inquest is now closed,
Speaker 1: but she can recommend New South Wales Police continue investigating
Speaker 1: Rick Blum in relation to mounting evidence of him being
Speaker 1: involved in Marion's disappearance. State Coroner Teresa O'Sullivan then wraps
Speaker 1: up the proceedings.
Speaker 12: I'd just like to thank the legal representatives. I would
Speaker 12: like to thank Sally and her family for your participation.
Speaker 12: I know it hasn't been easy, but it's much appreciated
Speaker 12: your participation and involvement. I'd like to thank the investigating
Speaker 12: offices again for the incredible professionalism and an enormous amount
Speaker 12: of work put into this case, and my counsel assisting
Speaker 12: team for their enormous assistance to me.
Speaker 7: We will adjourn for.
Speaker 12: Findings, which will be delivered at ten am on the
Speaker 12: thirtieth of November here at Lidcombe.
Speaker 1: Before then, we have two more episodes to release, which
Speaker 1: will include a more in depth look into Rickblum's alleged
Speaker 1: nefarious activities in Europe and an interview with one of
Speaker 1: Australia's top detectives who reveals what it takes to crack
Speaker 1: a decade's old cold case.
Speaker 9: When you have these old matters and you think you
Speaker 9: know you're never going to get a result, just keep
Speaker 9: going at it. Do not give up, don't let it
Speaker 9: go because, as we've seen in this matter could have
Speaker 9: been easily forgotten about and never reserviced again. And follow
Speaker 9: every lead down a rabbit hole, because you never know
Speaker 9: what you're going to find.
Speaker 2: If you knew Marian or have any information about her
Speaker 2: or her whereabouts, we'd love to hear from you. Our
Speaker 2: website is sevenews dot com dot au slash news slash
Speaker 2: the Lady Vanishers and you can also message us here.
Speaker 2: You can also send us an anonymous tip at the
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Speaker 2: don't forget to subscribe, Please rate and review our series.
Speaker 2: It helps new listeners find us. Presenter and executive producer
Speaker 2: Alison Sandy, investigative journalist Brian Seymour, producer and writer Sally Eels.
Speaker 2: Researcher Joony Condos, sound design Mark Wright, Graphics Jason Blandford.
Speaker 2: Transcripts and translation Estelle Sanchez. The theme and much of
Speaker 2: the music by Nicholas Gasparini at the Darkpiano dot com.
Speaker 2: Thanks again to the Alliance Francis. This is a seven
Speaker 2: News production.