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Speaker 1: Black cast, Unite our voices. Black Magic Woman Podcast acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land we have recorded this

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Speaker 1: episode on. We also acknowledge traditional owners of the land

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Speaker 1: where you, the listener ofvier are tuning in from. We

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Speaker 1: would like to pay our respects to our elders past

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Speaker 1: and present and acknowledge that this always was Aboriginal land

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Speaker 1: and always will be Aboriginal land. Welcome to the Black

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Speaker 1: Magic Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bail good Ay or you

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Speaker 1: mob and welcome to another episode of the Black Magic

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Speaker 1: Woman Podcast. I want to acknowledge that I am on

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Speaker 1: the unseeded lands of the beautiful wad Jack Nongar people

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Speaker 1: here and Borlu also known or referred to as Perth,

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Speaker 1: Western Australia for those that are outside of this country.

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Speaker 1: I also want to say welcome to this show. If

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Speaker 1: you're watching on YouTube, thank you. Don't forget to subscribe.

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Speaker 1: If you're not watching on YouTube yet, rate and review

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Speaker 1: our show. It's all about reviews. People always reading those reviews,

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Speaker 1: so thank you if you've taken time out to do

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Speaker 1: that and support other podcasters by doing the same. We

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Speaker 1: don't we don't do it enough. We don't tell people

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Speaker 1: to support, and there's numbers of ways that you can

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Speaker 1: support us. You can download our podcast and also try

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Speaker 1: and find other podcasters, whether it's Spotify, iHeart Apple, wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts from. I have the absolute pleasure

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Speaker 1: and privilege and I have had the privilege since I

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Speaker 1: landed here on what Your Country about three days ago

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Speaker 1: of being with traditional owners, learning, being welcomed, and just

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Speaker 1: sitting I've been an absolute I always say in all,

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Speaker 1: but it's not even in all. I found myself just

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Speaker 1: feeling feeling, feeling my feeling, just feeling whole, feeling complete,

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Speaker 1: feeling grounded and even content. And I don't usually feel

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Speaker 1: these feelings when I'm this far from home. So I

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Speaker 1: just want to say thank you for looking after me,

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Speaker 1: for welcoming me, and for supporting me and the work

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Speaker 1: that I do. And I want to also say to

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Speaker 1: our listeners and viewers, you're in for an absolute treat.

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Speaker 1: Ural maguire, I'm going to introduce that I'm going to

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Speaker 1: refer to as uncle, not my blood relative. We met

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Speaker 1: three days ago, but in our culture, naturally we would

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Speaker 1: call older women and older men auntie or uncle, whether

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Speaker 1: you're blood related or not. So I've got permission. Make

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Speaker 1: sure you asks people. Don't assume everyone wants to be

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Speaker 1: called your uncle either because you listen to watch this podcast.

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Speaker 1: So uncle, I'm going to hand over to you. And

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Speaker 1: one of the beautiful things about our culture is as

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Speaker 1: black fellows, you know, we all got our own stories

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Speaker 1: and we are the best to tell our stories. So

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Speaker 1: so of me doing a little introduction, I would now

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Speaker 1: like to hand over to you to share with these

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Speaker 1: moms that are watching and listening, you know a little

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Speaker 1: bit about yourself, your country, your family and whatever it

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Speaker 1: is that you want to share with us.

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Speaker 2: It's only a half an hour, though, isn't it realize

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Speaker 2: how big my family? Yes, lovely, thank you and kaya

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Speaker 2: wind you Europe. So that's a welcome in our language,

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Speaker 2: our very sacred language, our old language of the Young nation.

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Speaker 2: Yep i'm i'm mang. I have ties into the Balladong,

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Speaker 2: the Hewitt, the Willman and the Waja people here in

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Speaker 2: the Young our nation, and they are all dialects of

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Speaker 2: the one language group. For those of you that don't

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Speaker 2: know new our people and new our culture and Buda.

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Speaker 2: But my oldies raised me, My mum and dad raised

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Speaker 2: me as a as a younger. We knew we had Baaladong,

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Speaker 2: we knew had we had all these dialects, but we

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Speaker 2: just referred to ourselves as young. So, you know, there's

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Speaker 2: other talks about young ours being Bibilman and all this stuff,

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Speaker 2: and we are, there's no doubt about that. But I've

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Speaker 2: been identifying my whole life as young So I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to change.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say the same when when our

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Speaker 1: mothers and fathers and our gren parents, and you know,

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Speaker 1: me being a Kouri, being from the bloc, I'll always

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Speaker 1: be a Kuri. Even I've been living in Queens for

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Speaker 1: thirty years and my dad was a Murray and my

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Speaker 1: children identify as Murray's when they go back to red

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Speaker 1: Ford their couries. But it's hard for me to just

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Speaker 1: say sometimes I'm an Aboriginal woman, you know, our own

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Speaker 1: First Nations because for me, my mum, my grandmother's and

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Speaker 1: Sydney we're Coury's. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: An identity is such a critical part of being Aboriginal,

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Speaker 2: being First Nations, being Indigenous, and being a blackfell you know,

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Speaker 2: so we understand and I think we've got this universal

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Speaker 2: understanding and sense of identity and respect that you know,

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Speaker 2: we know we're different. We know there's a significant diversity

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Speaker 2: amongst our mobs and our clan groups and our families

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Speaker 2: and even within right and that's a great thing. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, the fact that the white fullness came here

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Speaker 2: and gave us just this one identity, they couldn't be

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Speaker 2: more wrong, and they still could not be more wrong.

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Speaker 2: So I think that, you know, for me, it's great

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Speaker 2: that we've got all shades of black in our clans

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Speaker 2: and families and communities, and we we integrate and accept

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Speaker 2: and mix, you know, just so easily and so well

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Speaker 2: with each other. I mean, like yourself. You know, I've

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Speaker 2: traveled into the deep interior of this beautiful country and

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Speaker 2: also you know, right around the coastal area, So there

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Speaker 2: aren't too many places in Australia that I haven't either

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Speaker 2: driven through or been to where when I've met blackfellows,

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Speaker 2: there's just a really warm sense of acceptance and knowledge.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's in our politics. We sort of

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Speaker 2: break those things, don't we. And I think it's such

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Speaker 2: a shame that the beauty and the genuine spirit and

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Speaker 2: sensitivity and loving kindness that our old people once had

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Speaker 2: and I think still have and I think it's still

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Speaker 2: at the core of us. Even the hardest of hard

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Speaker 2: blackfellows have got a beautiful soul. And I think whatever

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Speaker 2: we do and whatever we you know what, if we

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Speaker 2: think about doing by ourselves afo each other, we should

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Speaker 2: always remember where we come from. And yet you know

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Speaker 2: we've got it. It's a tough world that we live

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Speaker 2: in now, and we have to be tough, and we are.

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Speaker 2: We don't have to prove anything to anybody. Our resilience

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Speaker 2: of that spirit and soul that is within all of us,

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Speaker 2: every little follower and every old fellow, every man, every woman,

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Speaker 2: and every individual in between all of those identities is

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Speaker 2: is if you identify as a Black fellow, you know

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Speaker 2: there's a connection and there's a place and a seat

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Speaker 2: for you in our families and clans and around our coala,

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Speaker 2: our fire. It's an important and wonderful principle that we hold,

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Speaker 2: I think in our beautiful cultures.

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Speaker 1: Talking about principles, we've been here supporting each other, you know,

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Speaker 1: me bringing my elders knowledge all the way over here

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Speaker 1: to this beautiful country about cultural integrity and cultural values,

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Speaker 1: cultural knowledge, cultural governance. These are these principles, right, But

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Speaker 1: it starts with identity. It starts with understanding your place

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Speaker 1: in your family, your kinship system, your community, and that

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Speaker 1: understanding is universal. Like with Black fellows, we know straight away,

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Speaker 1: you know, men's business, women's business. All we can talk about, well,

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Speaker 1: we don't talk about. We know how to conduct ourselves,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the right way, whether we're talking with

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Speaker 1: Black Fellows or watf us, because that's what our old

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Speaker 1: people have handed down to us. And yes it has

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Speaker 1: been interfered with and our culture, you know, in terms

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Speaker 1: of colonialism has disrupted our culture. But for a lot

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Speaker 1: of non Aboriginal people that don't see us as you know,

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Speaker 1: culturally strong and thriving, you know, people living in your

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Speaker 1: modern world, but living living our culture every day whilst

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Speaker 1: participating and modern mainstream Australia. How do you in terms

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Speaker 1: of a good family. You haven't told me about your

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Speaker 1: kids and everything yet, But tell me a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about your family, because I'm just going to say,

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Speaker 1: you know, how do we ensure that we're passing on

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Speaker 1: this knowledge and culture, knowledge, whether it's to our children

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Speaker 1: and to the broader community, so that we don't have

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Speaker 1: these gaps knowledge gaps. Closing the gaps you know, Look.

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Speaker 2: It's a that's one of the biggest you know, our

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Speaker 2: cultural survival is is I think our biggest challenge above

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Speaker 2: everything else, and how we maintain that really strong identity

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Speaker 2: and connection to each other. And of course where we

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Speaker 2: come from our country or budget in this place here

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Speaker 2: is a huge challenge, right because we for many urban

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Speaker 2: black fellows, I think there's no question that people identify

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Speaker 2: as black fellows right living in the cities. But what

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Speaker 2: and how is that defined now in this modern contemporary world. Well,

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Speaker 2: the old principles and the old values, the old ways

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Speaker 2: are still strong within us. And we were just talking

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Speaker 2: about that spirit, that's that gentle spirit that's in us.

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Speaker 2: We've also got this warrior spirit in our bloodlines and

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Speaker 2: in the core of who we are. So it's always

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Speaker 2: there and we see it and we show it, and

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Speaker 2: it's beautiful. You know. Unfortunately many of our families, and

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Speaker 2: I hear this from many black fellows across the country

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Speaker 2: that unfortunately we only come together during sorry business and

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Speaker 2: sad times, and we don't do enough of that same

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Speaker 2: coming together in really happy times, you know, to celebrate.

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Speaker 2: So my kids are all now just adults. When I

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Speaker 2: say just adults, my youngest one is you know, just

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Speaker 2: she's twenty in a couple of months. The others are

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Speaker 2: twenty three this year, the next birthdays I'm speaking next

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Speaker 2: twenty three, twenty six, and thirty two. So girls boys,

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Speaker 2: three girls. So my son is in the middle there.

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Speaker 2: But I've got the youngest is a daughter, and the

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Speaker 2: two oldest daughters and my oldest daughter, Bridget, So Elizabeth

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Speaker 2: is the youngest Reubens my son and Stephanie and Bridget.

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Speaker 2: Bridget's just And the sad thing was we had, you know,

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Speaker 2: we buried my dear old mum, who was a really

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Speaker 2: true matriarch of the younger nation at the end of

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Speaker 2: twenty two in September. Sorry, we buried mum, you know,

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Speaker 2: twelve fourteen months ago now, and three days after mum

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Speaker 2: you know passed, we you know, I had my oldest

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Speaker 2: daughter gave birth to my first grandson, and it was

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Speaker 2: a beautiful moment, you know, and we were.

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Speaker 1: So blessed healing as well.

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Speaker 2: Oh wonderful. And yes, you know, this little bloke came

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Speaker 2: into his name Lenox, Lenox Oral. So he's the only

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Speaker 2: he's the second Oral I think that I know of

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Speaker 2: in the whole of Australia. But Lenox came into the

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Speaker 2: world and brought, you know, some of that spirit that

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Speaker 2: Mum left behind, and we just sort of say, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think these these two little spirits they passed on

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Speaker 2: the way you know, down and up, and I think

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Speaker 2: this little blake carries that. And so I think our

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Speaker 2: you know, our family bloodlines obviously live on through these

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Speaker 2: beautiful kids that we're all having and grandkids and great grandkids.

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Speaker 2: But we've all got big mobs and our families. You know,

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Speaker 2: I've got I've got ten brothers and sisters, seven sisters

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Speaker 2: and three brothers, you know, and at the time of

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Speaker 2: Mum's passing, there were one hundred and five I think

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Speaker 2: one hundred and six, you know, one hundred and five

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Speaker 2: people in that meeting, five generations. So that's just that's

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Speaker 2: just one most together. That's just the family. That's the

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Speaker 2: immediate family. So you know, when you extrapolate that out

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Speaker 2: to you know, all of Mum's family and Dad's family

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Speaker 2: and you know, pops and NaNs and you know, I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, I said to you know, my ex wife, now,

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Speaker 2: I said, you know, the day that she got that

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Speaker 2: we got together and got serious. She became a mother

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Speaker 2: with no kids of her own. Yes, she got a mother,

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Speaker 2: a sister, a daughter, a grandmother, a great grandmother, and

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Speaker 2: an auntie.

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Speaker 1: The moment and responsibility.

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Speaker 2: She was very English, so that was a huge challenge

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Speaker 2: for her.

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Speaker 1: Because understand English family structure well.

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Speaker 2: Her nuclear family was her sister and mum and dad.

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Speaker 2: That was it. That's it from.

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Speaker 1: Is that beautiful though, that we can actually introduce or

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Speaker 1: bring people into our culture, into our families and communities

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Speaker 1: and share with them how how you know how we

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Speaker 1: keep families together? Whose roles and responsibilities? But obligation? I

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Speaker 1: always say to people, don't see obligations as responsibilities. You

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Speaker 1: can choose to be responsible, you cannot when you're obligated.

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Speaker 1: It's like your tongue's tied. You can't say no. So

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Speaker 1: obligations to family and country, to kin, to community, I

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Speaker 1: always say in training, you know they outweigh the expectations

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Speaker 1: or responsibilities to the workplace. Majority of the time, our

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Speaker 1: family and cultural obligations are priority. And that's something that

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Speaker 1: I find challenging as a black woman in business with

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Speaker 1: black staff. Majority of my staff are black fathers. Right,

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Speaker 1: the constant having to go to funerals and have time

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Speaker 1: off and mental health, all these things, look after kids

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Speaker 1: and all of the trauma, the social challenges, and the

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Speaker 1: legacy of colonialism and past government policies. You know, I

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Speaker 1: spend a lot more money than on letting people go

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Speaker 1: to funerals. You know, I don't, never, ever do I

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Speaker 1: want to de duck somebody's path because you only have

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Speaker 1: ten days paid leave. Our mod need twenty days paid

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Speaker 1: leave otherwise they exhaust the leave and can't pay their bills. So,

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Speaker 1: just in terms of being in business, you've been around

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Speaker 1: for a while doing different things. What keeps you going? Now?

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Speaker 1: What have you been working on? What you been doing?

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Speaker 1: Where you hiding?

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Speaker 2: Don't ask me that reveal those bloody places undercover it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Look over the years, I've been a consultant and advisor,

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Speaker 2: and a team leader and a project.

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Speaker 1: Manager and a firefighter.

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Speaker 2: I was a firefighter for eighteen years, a professional firefighter.

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Speaker 2: So yes, I joined, and I was the only younger.

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Speaker 2: I think. I'm pretty sure I was the first lot

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Speaker 2: of blacks saying no, there was another guy, but I

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Speaker 2: don't know him as a new house. So I'm going

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Speaker 2: to claim being the first.

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Speaker 1: New York All they didn't identify. They didn't. They might

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Speaker 1: have been, but they didn't take the box. They're still

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Speaker 1: living as you know.

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Speaker 2: Well, he was definitely aboriginal, but yeah, and there were

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Speaker 2: there were a couple of them. Because there was a lad,

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Speaker 2: an old fellow who was from Calgooley and his son

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Speaker 2: was into and he was on the same you know,

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Speaker 2: platoon shift as me. I can't and I'll give it

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Speaker 2: him because he didn't. He didn't tell me for about

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Speaker 2: eighteen months. He didn't tell me there was a black lly.

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Speaker 2: You know, I said, mate, that's that's not good enough.

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Speaker 2: You know, when we got to know each other. Sen

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Speaker 2: I was a junior fire but yeah, he look the Fibrigade,

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Speaker 2: you know, I myself and a fantastic young woman named

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Speaker 2: Heidi Miippi we led a defairs. In fact, Heidi was employed.

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Speaker 2: But we we introduced the defairs's first cadet abriginal codecic.

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Speaker 1: So for people that don't understand these acronyms.

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Speaker 2: Department fire, an emergency fire.

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Speaker 1: And emergency services here in w ad.

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Speaker 2: Fibergate here at the fibrigate. Yeah, yeah, so we you know,

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Speaker 2: introduced the well they introduced it, but we we led it.

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Speaker 2: The first kidetship and it won the premiers of water

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Speaker 2: to cut things short, but we ended up with and

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Speaker 2: of course there was talk within the brigade. So this

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Speaker 2: is just how I think, how wonderful you know, our

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Speaker 2: young people are when given really strong guidance. These kids

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Speaker 2: who had no expectation of becoming five, but they all

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Speaker 2: wanted to be like every most young fellas. So they

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Speaker 2: came there with this really strong drive and interest to

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Speaker 2: put the uniform on and be a Fiery. But we're

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Speaker 2: given no chance by the senior staff and people within

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Speaker 2: the organization. And Heidi and I a straight away said, if

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Speaker 2: that's what you want to do, guys, you've got to work.

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Speaker 2: We will guide you, support you, and provide an opportunity

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Speaker 2: for you to be exposed to that. So we did

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Speaker 2: that long story short. Out of the twelve that started,

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Speaker 2: eight finish the twelve month cademyship and four of them

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Speaker 2: got in. They are now still professional Fiery, so they've

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Speaker 2: been in. That was twenty fifteen, so you know that's

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Speaker 2: they've done eight years?

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Speaker 1: Is that when you can see younger mob, the next

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Speaker 1: generation coming through the ranks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, and you know the fibrigad is a bit

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Speaker 2: like a you know, it's an iconic sort of role

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Speaker 2: and very well respected in the community society. So there's

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Speaker 2: standards you know in being a firey and a copper

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Speaker 2: and you know an AFL footballer and sports person and

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Speaker 2: all this sort of stuff, and the fire is is

301
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Speaker 2: very well documented how difficult it is to get through.

302
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Speaker 2: So the fact that these young men, I mean, we

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Speaker 2: tried to get young girls women involved, but these young blokes,

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Speaker 2: they you know, we drove them. We expose them to

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Speaker 2: a lot of good stuff, so they learned what the

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Speaker 2: job was about in the role. And because I knew

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Speaker 2: so many you know, five career fire is all like

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Speaker 2: a uniform mob in the job, I was able to

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Speaker 2: take them onto stations and introduce them and get them

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Speaker 2: to sit in the trucks and you know, literally be

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Speaker 2: a fiery for a moment. And I think that really,

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Speaker 2: you know, drove them.

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Speaker 1: Don't imagine in other organizations or different industries or sect

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Speaker 1: does that support from a more senior black fellow could

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Speaker 1: take them younger fellows under their wings, you know, not

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Speaker 1: wait till they get to the point where they're about

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Speaker 1: to get terminated or they're about to get you know,

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Speaker 1: during probation not working out and all of this. You

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Speaker 1: know that that support that we offer regardless, you know,

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Speaker 1: we do it anyways, whether we pay to do it

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Speaker 1: or not, but you got that support within the organization.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we had to in some ways, we had to

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Speaker 2: push forward. But overall they did support it, you know because.

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Speaker 1: The first time, first program of first I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: a pressure on that kind of well they.

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Speaker 2: Should have they should have continued with it, right because

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Speaker 2: they didn't continue it. They it won the Premiers Award.

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Speaker 2: It was the best not not just aboriginally, it was

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Speaker 2: the best program employment training program in the state. And

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Speaker 2: they didn't continue and they haven't continued, haven't re introduced.

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Speaker 2: It can disappointing, quite disgusting. I was disgusted of lost

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Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of not respect, but I've

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Speaker 2: lost a lot of respect for the fact that decision.

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Speaker 2: You know, they didn't choose it because a lot of

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Speaker 2: my you know, a lot of my brothers are still fiery.

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Speaker 2: I mean, a lot of the guys that run the

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Speaker 2: run the joint now are my old you know, fiery

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Speaker 2: brothers and good mates of mine. And every year they

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Speaker 2: get me to do the Welcome to Country out their

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Speaker 2: their annual dinner and the retirement dinner that they are

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Speaker 2: usually in about March April. So it's great. It's like

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Speaker 2: a reunion every year because I don't spend a lot

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Speaker 2: of time driving around the fire stations these days, but

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Speaker 2: it's great to catch up. So yeah, and it was

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Speaker 2: a great life. I loved it for eighty years. I

346
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Speaker 2: just had other things to do, you know, and I

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Speaker 2: had to go and become shift my thinking from a

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Speaker 2: firefighter to become a fire later look out this.

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Speaker 1: Fella like flight of fires, which way in terms of

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Speaker 1: well at the time.

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Speaker 2: So I had and what I haven't spoken about was

352
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Speaker 2: we we and I had a bit of a you know,

353
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Speaker 2: I don't want to go, you've only got half now.

354
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Speaker 2: But my I had a bit of a midlife this thing,

355
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Speaker 2: you know, happening at about forty and you know, I

356
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Speaker 2: was in the fire brigade and settled and comfortable, but

357
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Speaker 2: I knew that my young spirit wasn't being nourished. And

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Speaker 2: I thought, I think I've assimilated enough as a blackfellow.

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Speaker 2: I've done enough things. I played league football, I've been

360
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Speaker 2: to you know, Scotch colleagues. That was you know, that's

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Speaker 2: another thing that I was introduced to. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I was privileged to have attended one of the best

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Speaker 2: schools in Perth, a private boarding school, private boys school.

364
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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I was the first to graduate Scotch College

365
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Speaker 2: Black Fellow. So I think, there you go. Yeah, they're

366
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Speaker 2: about to name a scholarship. I remember Abridginal scholarship from

367
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Speaker 2: the school after myself.

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Speaker 1: So that's one of those that's pretty dead.

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Speaker 2: It is. I'm pretty tough with that. But yeah, you

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Speaker 2: know that. And I met a lot of you know

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Speaker 2: a lot of good mates who are still in business

372
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Speaker 2: doing business with today. Kept catching with one of them

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Speaker 2: up at lunch today. So but I did all that stuff,

374
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Speaker 2: and I thought, no, I you know, I left home

375
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Speaker 2: at seven team, you know, to come down to Perth

376
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Speaker 2: and go to school, finish my schooling and then go

377
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Speaker 2: and play league football. And that's sort of just I

378
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Speaker 2: never went back to the country, you know. I always

379
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Speaker 2: went back to see mum and family and luckily nor them.

380
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Speaker 2: You know, it was just and the wheat Belts just

381
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Speaker 2: an hour away. But to go and leave country and

382
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Speaker 2: to be away for such a long time and do

383
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Speaker 2: so much and then go, you know, there's there's stuff

384
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Speaker 2: missing in my soul. So I had this sort of

385
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Speaker 2: spiritual awakening. I think it wasn't a midlife course.

386
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Speaker 1: Yes, I like when we said that, yeah my spirit

387
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Speaker 1: yeah yeah yeah.

388
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Speaker 2: And so you know, on behalf of my mum and

389
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Speaker 2: my family. You know, I put together a proposal to

390
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Speaker 2: the Isle Indigenous Land and SEACORPS to get a farm,

391
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Speaker 2: a bit of property and a bit of country, particularly

392
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Speaker 2: for mum. Yeah, it is a bit of country.

393
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Speaker 1: Anyone's country.

394
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're a country, yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. So we

395
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Speaker 2: got this week Ship Farm in two thousand and seven,

396
00:22:57,951 --> 00:23:01,591
Speaker 2: and you know, and we've been We went there with

397
00:23:01,631 --> 00:23:03,391
Speaker 2: a vision to heal the land because it was pretty

398
00:23:03,431 --> 00:23:05,631
Speaker 2: damna country up in the wheat belt here.

399
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Speaker 1: How damaged are we talking.

400
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Speaker 2: About, Well, it's very damaged. It's on the brink of

401
00:23:11,231 --> 00:23:14,511
Speaker 2: collapse in many ways. You know, the ninety eight percent

402
00:23:14,551 --> 00:23:18,711
Speaker 2: of the biodiversity that once was there in you know,

403
00:23:18,711 --> 00:23:21,911
Speaker 2: one hundred ninety years ago, ninety eight percent of it's gone.

404
00:23:21,951 --> 00:23:25,431
Speaker 2: So there are massive issues with you know, the bid diversity,

405
00:23:25,471 --> 00:23:32,791
Speaker 2: the ecology, the hydrology, the salinity issue, and rejuvenating that land.

406
00:23:33,551 --> 00:23:35,551
Speaker 2: One of the biggest problems is the lack of quality

407
00:23:35,591 --> 00:23:39,591
Speaker 2: set native seed. So you know what we did, what

408
00:23:39,631 --> 00:23:41,871
Speaker 2: we chose to do fifteen years ago, to plant you know,

409
00:23:41,991 --> 00:23:44,911
Speaker 2: a million trees on our twenty one one hundred acre

410
00:23:44,991 --> 00:23:48,271
Speaker 2: property still drives me today. So we've planted about seven

411
00:23:48,351 --> 00:23:52,671
Speaker 2: hundred thousand plants, but we've probably initiated with that planting

412
00:23:53,031 --> 00:23:56,431
Speaker 2: of that number of trees, probably another one hundred thousand

413
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Speaker 2: plants and maybe twenty or thirty species that have just

414
00:24:00,831 --> 00:24:04,631
Speaker 2: naturally regenerated. So we've got all these byversity happening on

415
00:24:04,671 --> 00:24:07,791
Speaker 2: our place. And you know, we've I mean, I've traveled

416
00:24:07,951 --> 00:24:11,431
Speaker 2: overseas speaking about it, and people are everywhere in WA

417
00:24:11,511 --> 00:24:13,791
Speaker 2: and the south West particularly. You know know what we

418
00:24:13,791 --> 00:24:16,191
Speaker 2: do because I was on landline and I've done things

419
00:24:16,191 --> 00:24:20,431
Speaker 2: on ABC Radio and yeah, and now I'm doing on

420
00:24:20,471 --> 00:24:21,631
Speaker 2: the podcast.

421
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Speaker 1: You know.

422
00:24:23,791 --> 00:24:26,711
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really like talking about myself, no ye, but.

423
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Speaker 1: Talking about country is different, isn't it.

424
00:24:29,231 --> 00:24:31,071
Speaker 2: Yeah? Talking about cal I could do that all day.

425
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Speaker 1: I know. I've been listening to the last couple of

426
00:24:32,951 --> 00:24:36,551
Speaker 1: days and just thought to myself, it's a good reminder

427
00:24:36,591 --> 00:24:40,031
Speaker 1: for some of us, right, you know, when your when

428
00:24:40,071 --> 00:24:44,511
Speaker 1: your spirit is feeling, you know, it might be so

429
00:24:44,671 --> 00:24:49,511
Speaker 1: broken ye are you feeling times of of of distress

430
00:24:49,671 --> 00:24:55,951
Speaker 1: or sadness, or worry or anxiety, whatever it is. You know, country,

431
00:24:56,271 --> 00:24:59,071
Speaker 1: country is always there, is always there, always calling you,

432
00:24:59,831 --> 00:25:02,431
Speaker 1: even if it's not your country. Go and take your

433
00:25:02,431 --> 00:25:06,751
Speaker 1: shoes off and just plant your feet on mother Earth

434
00:25:06,991 --> 00:25:10,071
Speaker 1: and recharge your batteries. That where there's a feeling that

435
00:25:10,191 --> 00:25:13,311
Speaker 1: I get living on the Sunnay Coast with beautiful country.

436
00:25:13,751 --> 00:25:16,071
Speaker 1: I don't do it enough. I still go to the

437
00:25:16,071 --> 00:25:18,831
Speaker 1: park with my kids and my shoes on. So simple.

438
00:25:18,951 --> 00:25:22,351
Speaker 1: Don't think you need to drive ten hours sometimes to

439
00:25:22,431 --> 00:25:24,631
Speaker 1: find your country because some of us don't live close

440
00:25:24,671 --> 00:25:27,311
Speaker 1: to our country. We don't have the privilege to go

441
00:25:27,391 --> 00:25:30,071
Speaker 1: back to country, and some of us don't even know

442
00:25:30,111 --> 00:25:31,191
Speaker 1: where our country is.

443
00:25:32,391 --> 00:25:34,191
Speaker 2: Not all countries got spirit, That's what I mean.

444
00:25:34,751 --> 00:25:36,791
Speaker 1: Don't limit yourself to thinking that you need to go

445
00:25:36,911 --> 00:25:40,911
Speaker 1: back to your own country when you've got country here,

446
00:25:41,551 --> 00:25:41,911
Speaker 1: and you.

447
00:25:41,871 --> 00:25:44,391
Speaker 2: Know, we've all got our ancestors, we've all got our

448
00:25:44,391 --> 00:25:46,791
Speaker 2: old people, we've got our family, we've got our language,

449
00:25:46,791 --> 00:25:49,391
Speaker 2: we've got our knowledge, we've got our own spirit, and

450
00:25:49,791 --> 00:25:52,391
Speaker 2: our old people's spirit is always welcoming as long as

451
00:25:52,391 --> 00:25:55,671
Speaker 2: we're following. You know, those proper protocols and those laws

452
00:25:55,711 --> 00:25:58,391
Speaker 2: and ways of knowing. And if you know your own

453
00:25:58,391 --> 00:26:02,271
Speaker 2: country and you follow your own laws and practices and

454
00:26:02,311 --> 00:26:06,271
Speaker 2: customs and values, you know, I found that, Yeah, you

455
00:26:06,351 --> 00:26:08,031
Speaker 2: can pretty much go any I mean you got to listen.

456
00:26:08,031 --> 00:26:10,711
Speaker 2: And obviously, you know there are places as men and women,

457
00:26:10,751 --> 00:26:12,751
Speaker 2: you know, we that we know we can't go to,

458
00:26:12,791 --> 00:26:14,351
Speaker 2: and we feel that we don't need a lot of

459
00:26:14,391 --> 00:26:15,831
Speaker 2: the time, we don't need people to tell us. You.

460
00:26:16,551 --> 00:26:19,231
Speaker 2: I think every black fellow knows when they sense that

461
00:26:19,351 --> 00:26:23,351
Speaker 2: they shouldn't be somewhere. So hearing that, you know, and

462
00:26:23,391 --> 00:26:26,471
Speaker 2: being able to not not only read country, but you know,

463
00:26:26,631 --> 00:26:29,511
Speaker 2: listen to country, I think is a skill that we have.

464
00:26:29,591 --> 00:26:31,551
Speaker 2: It's in eight in US, and I think you know,

465
00:26:31,671 --> 00:26:33,591
Speaker 2: it's like kicking a foot of you're throwing a ball.

466
00:26:33,631 --> 00:26:35,551
Speaker 2: You just we just need to practice that and we

467
00:26:35,551 --> 00:26:39,391
Speaker 2: can continue to do that, as you say, on anybody's country.

468
00:26:40,231 --> 00:26:43,711
Speaker 2: And I think that you know, it'll help so many

469
00:26:43,751 --> 00:26:47,671
Speaker 2: people when they re connect to nature and you know,

470
00:26:47,751 --> 00:26:50,551
Speaker 2: country or budja are in our language. It's it's a

471
00:26:50,631 --> 00:26:51,351
Speaker 2: very powerful thing.

472
00:26:51,391 --> 00:26:54,911
Speaker 1: So that I've been experiencing it here, I've never experienced

473
00:26:54,951 --> 00:26:58,311
Speaker 1: this feeling on someone else's country. Yeah, I always feel

474
00:26:58,311 --> 00:27:00,871
Speaker 1: a little bit of not discontentment. It's just it's just

475
00:27:00,991 --> 00:27:04,191
Speaker 1: not a little bit of unsettlement. And sometimes I think,

476
00:27:04,911 --> 00:27:07,071
Speaker 1: am I doing the right thing? Should I be here?

477
00:27:07,111 --> 00:27:10,431
Speaker 1: Sometimes I question myself, you know, being a courry being

478
00:27:10,431 --> 00:27:14,151
Speaker 1: from Redfern, you do you can't have to, you know,

479
00:27:14,351 --> 00:27:16,391
Speaker 1: just check in with yourself and checking with elders and

480
00:27:16,391 --> 00:27:19,031
Speaker 1: make sure that you are doing the right thing and

481
00:27:19,071 --> 00:27:24,591
Speaker 1: not you know, too driven by you know, society and challenges.

482
00:27:24,151 --> 00:27:26,231
Speaker 2: And all of that stuff.

483
00:27:26,991 --> 00:27:31,031
Speaker 1: So lighting fires, I'm really interested in this, and I

484
00:27:31,031 --> 00:27:32,551
Speaker 1: know that we don't have much time left, but can

485
00:27:32,591 --> 00:27:36,271
Speaker 1: we talk about why you like to light fires?

486
00:27:44,191 --> 00:27:47,631
Speaker 2: And as I think one of the things putting fires out?

487
00:27:47,711 --> 00:27:51,191
Speaker 1: Now you're starting it. But this is interesting for especially

488
00:27:51,271 --> 00:28:00,151
Speaker 1: non Aboriginal people to really understand this concept of regenerating

489
00:28:00,591 --> 00:28:03,711
Speaker 1: the land. You know that biodiversity.

490
00:28:04,111 --> 00:28:06,871
Speaker 2: So tell me now, well, I think you know when

491
00:28:06,911 --> 00:28:10,551
Speaker 2: we speak about values and our language and languages, when

492
00:28:10,631 --> 00:28:12,711
Speaker 2: when we know you, when you know your language, or

493
00:28:12,751 --> 00:28:15,471
Speaker 2: when you know do research, you dive back into your

494
00:28:15,511 --> 00:28:17,551
Speaker 2: language like a lot of us have had to do.

495
00:28:18,951 --> 00:28:21,871
Speaker 2: You you pick up words, you learn, you know that

496
00:28:21,911 --> 00:28:25,271
Speaker 2: there were phrases statements and names that the Awdfuller spoke.

497
00:28:25,351 --> 00:28:28,831
Speaker 2: So whenever there's a name for something, you know that

498
00:28:28,871 --> 00:28:32,351
Speaker 2: there was immediate significant value placed on that thing or

499
00:28:32,351 --> 00:28:35,791
Speaker 2: that that practice, or that behavior or that whatever it is.

500
00:28:36,271 --> 00:28:38,871
Speaker 2: So we had a fire for cultural burning, for spiritual fire,

501
00:28:39,551 --> 00:28:42,871
Speaker 2: and you know that were that phrase was Carl Arrah

502
00:28:43,511 --> 00:28:47,511
Speaker 2: and so Carl laring was the burning and the healing

503
00:28:47,671 --> 00:28:52,631
Speaker 2: and using fire to regenerate and rejuvenate buja. So in

504
00:28:52,671 --> 00:28:57,471
Speaker 2: your hoars were known, you know as fire stick farmers,

505
00:28:57,511 --> 00:28:59,671
Speaker 2: you know by the White Fellows, because there was always

506
00:28:59,751 --> 00:29:02,271
Speaker 2: in the bush here, there were always smoke, and you

507
00:29:02,311 --> 00:29:03,991
Speaker 2: know the White Fellows when they first came, there was

508
00:29:03,991 --> 00:29:06,631
Speaker 2: always a smoke and you know, someone burning over here

509
00:29:06,671 --> 00:29:09,351
Speaker 2: and over there. And so they coined that phrase, you know,

510
00:29:09,391 --> 00:29:11,711
Speaker 2: the Whitefuls when they saw Young Hours and probably other

511
00:29:11,831 --> 00:29:15,431
Speaker 2: Aboriginal people because of the practice was a national one.

512
00:29:15,911 --> 00:29:19,351
Speaker 2: So reconnecting. Part of my journey was planting trees, you

513
00:29:19,511 --> 00:29:23,431
Speaker 2: create bush and I had a wonderful privilege. And the

514
00:29:23,511 --> 00:29:26,031
Speaker 2: great thing is I'm flying out the Sydney tomorrow to

515
00:29:26,271 --> 00:29:30,991
Speaker 2: reconnect with my brother Victor Stephenson, who is we're both

516
00:29:30,991 --> 00:29:33,791
Speaker 2: catching up in Sydney and you know, fire Stix is

517
00:29:34,231 --> 00:29:38,551
Speaker 2: Vick's you know organization, fantastic group that he runs, and

518
00:29:38,671 --> 00:29:41,511
Speaker 2: we I'm sort of now want to facilitate the Newark

519
00:29:41,511 --> 00:29:44,671
Speaker 2: connection and fire Stick's presence over here in Wa. So

520
00:29:44,711 --> 00:29:47,271
Speaker 2: we're going to continue this journey, you know, together and

521
00:29:47,351 --> 00:29:50,671
Speaker 2: vix VI, he's taught me so much. He's helped me

522
00:29:50,751 --> 00:29:53,711
Speaker 2: reconnect to you know, stuff that I had a connection to.

523
00:29:53,791 --> 00:29:55,671
Speaker 2: I mean, I remember, you know, I'm old enough to

524
00:29:55,671 --> 00:29:58,191
Speaker 2: remember the clearing of our lands, and you know I

525
00:29:58,271 --> 00:30:01,071
Speaker 2: was on country with my dads and uncles and family

526
00:30:01,471 --> 00:30:03,271
Speaker 2: and they were always lighting up country as part of

527
00:30:03,271 --> 00:30:07,071
Speaker 2: the clear unfortunately. So the burning and the parling orange

528
00:30:07,071 --> 00:30:10,951
Speaker 2: stuff is absolutely about rejuvenating land. It makes it safe. Right.

529
00:30:10,991 --> 00:30:14,271
Speaker 2: So there's cool burning, but the hot burning as well, right,

530
00:30:14,271 --> 00:30:17,151
Speaker 2: So it's applying the right fire at the right time

531
00:30:17,631 --> 00:30:20,471
Speaker 2: in the right place. Right is the phrase. And I

532
00:30:20,511 --> 00:30:24,191
Speaker 2: actually did the TEDx mob flew me to Detroit in

533
00:30:25,831 --> 00:30:32,031
Speaker 2: April last year to do a Ted talk on this subject.

534
00:30:32,071 --> 00:30:36,791
Speaker 1: So yeah, watch this space for the Ted talk in

535
00:30:36,831 --> 00:30:40,071
Speaker 1: the red circle. In the red circle, get the red

536
00:30:40,111 --> 00:30:44,111
Speaker 1: circle treatment with my Ted talk. So you're listening here.

537
00:30:44,231 --> 00:30:51,551
Speaker 1: I always say where knowledge holders to just be immersed

538
00:30:51,551 --> 00:30:55,071
Speaker 1: in the knowledge. The last couple of days you've given

539
00:30:55,151 --> 00:30:58,751
Speaker 1: me like not even a new outlook. I just I

540
00:30:58,831 --> 00:31:01,671
Speaker 1: hear about culture burning, I hear about fires farming. My

541
00:31:01,751 --> 00:31:05,871
Speaker 1: uncle Laurie is our of Wannarou, a nation Abitual corporation

542
00:31:05,911 --> 00:31:09,391
Speaker 1: in the Hunter Valley, and he's been working with Victor

543
00:31:10,671 --> 00:31:12,831
Speaker 1: to do all of that fire stick farming on our

544
00:31:12,871 --> 00:31:16,311
Speaker 1: country in the Hunter. But I've never really kind of

545
00:31:16,391 --> 00:31:20,071
Speaker 1: been drawn to the conversation than to chase Victor to

546
00:31:20,111 --> 00:31:21,431
Speaker 1: get on this podcast.

547
00:31:21,791 --> 00:31:23,671
Speaker 2: Read his book Fire Country.

548
00:31:23,471 --> 00:31:25,991
Speaker 1: Fire Country. Will make sure that that's in the show

549
00:31:26,031 --> 00:31:29,191
Speaker 1: notes and before we wrap up, because I know that,

550
00:31:30,271 --> 00:31:32,071
Speaker 1: you know, we've got a few more other people to

551
00:31:32,111 --> 00:31:35,191
Speaker 1: jump on the podcast. What do you want to share

552
00:31:35,231 --> 00:31:39,431
Speaker 1: with people like people here in Western Australia. There's a

553
00:31:39,431 --> 00:31:42,151
Speaker 1: lot of challenges, especially after the referendum and the voice

554
00:31:42,191 --> 00:31:47,351
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of challenges with this country in

555
00:31:47,431 --> 00:31:53,351
Speaker 1: particular with mining, with the weak, with agriculture, with farming.

556
00:31:54,271 --> 00:31:57,631
Speaker 1: You know, what can we leave some of our listeners

557
00:31:57,671 --> 00:32:02,431
Speaker 1: and viewers with to start thinking differently, to have a

558
00:32:02,511 --> 00:32:06,591
Speaker 1: different relationship with country, Well.

559
00:32:07,191 --> 00:32:09,631
Speaker 2: There is no choice anymore, right, we have to do

560
00:32:10,431 --> 00:32:13,391
Speaker 2: things differently. If we're going to continue to produce food,

561
00:32:13,391 --> 00:32:16,591
Speaker 2: which obviously we have to as a country and a

562
00:32:16,671 --> 00:32:20,951
Speaker 2: nation that goes without saying, but we have to do

563
00:32:21,031 --> 00:32:23,511
Speaker 2: it differently, and we have to do it better. Right

564
00:32:23,591 --> 00:32:25,711
Speaker 2: and better is not the way that we're doing it

565
00:32:25,751 --> 00:32:30,551
Speaker 2: at the moment. More is not better. So I think

566
00:32:30,631 --> 00:32:34,871
Speaker 2: the alternatives, which is what was So the alternative is

567
00:32:34,911 --> 00:32:37,351
Speaker 2: the old, you know, the new is the old. How

568
00:32:37,391 --> 00:32:40,311
Speaker 2: Aboriginal people manage the land and the resources, whether it

569
00:32:40,351 --> 00:32:42,231
Speaker 2: was the water or the soil, or the trees or

570
00:32:42,271 --> 00:32:46,791
Speaker 2: the animals, all of that that knowledge still is held

571
00:32:47,271 --> 00:32:50,871
Speaker 2: amongst us and in our bloodlines and in our family

572
00:32:50,911 --> 00:32:56,391
Speaker 2: and communities, So providing the opportunity for that wisdom and

573
00:32:56,431 --> 00:33:01,231
Speaker 2: that knowledge to be utilized and to be made relevant

574
00:33:01,631 --> 00:33:06,751
Speaker 2: in the practice of you know, industries like agriculture and

575
00:33:07,831 --> 00:33:14,471
Speaker 2: all other industries including mining. Right. So economies are an

576
00:33:14,511 --> 00:33:19,911
Speaker 2: absolute certainty and necessity for our existence, especially in this country.

577
00:33:20,951 --> 00:33:22,871
Speaker 2: But there's better ways of doing things all the time.

578
00:33:23,391 --> 00:33:25,871
Speaker 2: So I think what needs to be understood is that

579
00:33:25,911 --> 00:33:31,031
Speaker 2: abraginal people bring an alternative and a value that has

580
00:33:31,111 --> 00:33:35,071
Speaker 2: not been fully recognized or respected. And I'd say to everybody,

581
00:33:35,111 --> 00:33:38,671
Speaker 2: every blackvellow know what your value proposition is. Know what

582
00:33:38,711 --> 00:33:41,591
Speaker 2: your value is that you can bring to the table

583
00:33:42,031 --> 00:33:45,351
Speaker 2: and negotiate. Let's not reconcile. I'm not interested in reconcile

584
00:33:45,631 --> 00:33:49,191
Speaker 2: post this referendum. I want to negotiate now because I

585
00:33:49,311 --> 00:33:52,591
Speaker 2: know what we bring. I know there is value in

586
00:33:52,631 --> 00:33:54,871
Speaker 2: what we have to offer and what we know about

587
00:33:54,911 --> 00:33:59,271
Speaker 2: how to do things better, open doors that is.

588
00:33:59,951 --> 00:34:02,911
Speaker 1: That is the best way to sum up a deadly arn.

589
00:34:03,711 --> 00:34:05,951
Speaker 1: And I get you to tell people on camera that

590
00:34:05,991 --> 00:34:09,951
Speaker 1: you're coming back for Black Magic Women Part two? Can

591
00:34:10,191 --> 00:34:12,351
Speaker 1: we can we make it happen? Because there's more to

592
00:34:12,391 --> 00:34:14,671
Speaker 1: this yarn? Yeah, we're started.

593
00:34:14,791 --> 00:34:17,591
Speaker 2: That's why my mother called me Oral. You see keep

594
00:34:17,631 --> 00:34:20,151
Speaker 2: talking and he was named I was named after Oral Roberts,

595
00:34:20,191 --> 00:34:23,791
Speaker 2: who was a preacher and he was an evangelist.

596
00:34:21,831 --> 00:34:26,031
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that we can pick up

597
00:34:26,071 --> 00:34:30,511
Speaker 1: this conversation, especially after you go to Sydney. So we've

598
00:34:30,551 --> 00:34:32,751
Speaker 1: got to keep in touch and let me know when

599
00:34:32,791 --> 00:34:35,191
Speaker 1: you're on the East Coast. I might be there too,

600
00:34:36,031 --> 00:34:39,711
Speaker 1: and we can have another yarn and really get down

601
00:34:39,791 --> 00:34:43,871
Speaker 1: to understanding these scales of economies and whether or not

602
00:34:44,351 --> 00:34:47,031
Speaker 1: you know you said we don't have a choice anymore,

603
00:34:47,671 --> 00:34:50,231
Speaker 1: So I want to dig into that at another time.

604
00:34:50,351 --> 00:34:53,751
Speaker 2: Big conversation and a very important one. And the role

605
00:34:53,751 --> 00:34:56,271
Speaker 2: that average and people plan that is so important. Right

606
00:34:56,391 --> 00:34:58,511
Speaker 2: we sit in the middle. If we've talked using cultural

607
00:34:58,631 --> 00:35:03,111
Speaker 2: terms and analogies, the fire we are, we light the

608
00:35:03,151 --> 00:35:06,431
Speaker 2: fire and we manage the fire, and everyone's going to

609
00:35:06,471 --> 00:35:08,351
Speaker 2: sit around that fire to have the conversation.

610
00:35:08,871 --> 00:35:11,671
Speaker 1: And I love the fact that I'm not interested in reconciling.

611
00:35:12,551 --> 00:35:15,631
Speaker 1: I want to negotiate. So I'm going to leave you, fellows,

612
00:35:16,031 --> 00:35:19,591
Speaker 1: with those last words from this deadly uncle. Thank you

613
00:35:19,671 --> 00:35:24,471
Speaker 1: so much for thank you very welcoming bringing me in,

614
00:35:24,871 --> 00:35:29,351
Speaker 1: looking after me and supporting me. Like I said, I've

615
00:35:29,391 --> 00:35:34,551
Speaker 1: never felt so comfortable on somebody else's country, especially when

616
00:35:34,591 --> 00:35:36,071
Speaker 1: I'm so far from my country.

617
00:35:36,591 --> 00:35:40,591
Speaker 2: Good. Thanks, wonderful, lovely thank you for the wonderful contribution

618
00:35:40,631 --> 00:35:41,311
Speaker 2: that you've made to.

619
00:35:43,711 --> 00:35:47,031
Speaker 1: Thank you so you, Fellows. I told you is you're

620
00:35:47,031 --> 00:35:50,751
Speaker 1: in for an absolute street Wait for the next episode.

621
00:35:50,831 --> 00:35:54,231
Speaker 1: We're going to dive deeper. There's much more. I'll share

622
00:35:54,311 --> 00:35:56,751
Speaker 1: on my LinkedIn because we follow each other, so I'll

623
00:35:56,791 --> 00:35:58,791
Speaker 1: be watching. I'm going to get this fule to start

624
00:35:58,831 --> 00:36:01,951
Speaker 1: posting more. But yeah, I hope that you've enjoyed this

625
00:36:02,031 --> 00:36:05,791
Speaker 1: Deadly Yarn and everything is in the show notes, so

626
00:36:05,831 --> 00:36:08,631
Speaker 1: I hope you've enjoyed this episode. Until next time, by

627
00:36:08,751 --> 00:36:13,151
Speaker 1: for now, thank you. If you'd like any more on

628
00:36:13,231 --> 00:36:17,111
Speaker 1: today's guest, please visit our show notes in the episode description.

629
00:36:19,071 --> 00:36:21,431
Speaker 1: A big shout out to all you Deadly Mob and

630
00:36:21,551 --> 00:36:25,231
Speaker 1: allies who continue to listen, watch, and support our podcast.

631
00:36:25,431 --> 00:36:28,751
Speaker 1: Your feedback means the world. You can rate and review

632
00:36:28,831 --> 00:36:31,831
Speaker 1: the podcast on Apple and Spotify, or even head to

633
00:36:31,871 --> 00:36:34,791
Speaker 1: our socials and YouTube channel and drop us a line.

634
00:36:34,911 --> 00:36:37,711
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. The Black Magic Woman

635
00:36:37,831 --> 00:36:42,711
Speaker 1: podcast is produced by Clint Curtis